I am bookmarking this thread because the ideas expressed are exactly in line with my Queen Marchesa strategy. I will think and comment soon. Bant is really different from Mardu, but I am also looking at a Kess deck with similar style, and have been a little stuck. The writeup of my Queen Marchesa may be helpful and clarifying to you, and may make it easier to discuss things, because you can potentially help me with both Marchesa and Kess.
I loved your Tasigur deck which inspired me early on his release to build a version of my own, and reading about your Phelddagrif deck(s!) have been great in helping set into words the sort of politicking that makes EDH fun.
For such a deck, what do you think of targeted "help" similar to the Hippo overlord?
Cards like:
...and so on.
Also what about creatures like Wizened Snitches that act similar to more powerful things? They die in wraths but also add extra dissentives for people who might decide to turn sideways at you with small, annoying creatures. Curse of Verbosity also seems like you could draw a ton off of it and the random hippos you give to people, but, could put a huge target on you too for how much you draw off of it.
I've tried diviner spirit. Haven't tried the offerings, mostly because the effects aren't particularly useful for me. same deal with the hunteds. I definitely don't mind giving enemies advantages, but not if I don't get anything useful out of the deal - otherwise I'd rather just use phelddagrif.
Diviner spirit I think is a reasonable choice for repeatable CA that has a built-in limitation to keep it less threatening. That said, it can definitely draw hate when it's drawing 4 cards a turn for the enemies of (one of the other players). It's also pretty killable, which I generally strive to avoid with this deck, because I want my opponents removal killing each others' stuff, not mine. And there are games where it's hard to find anyone who's really willing to be an ally, and then it's hard to find a lot of use for it. Same deal for the blue offering. I'd rather just use a regular draw spell, and then provide enemy draw via phelddagrif if I want that effect.
curse of verbosity is pretty interesting, hadn't considered it. I think there is a price to be paid when you explicitly single someone out, though, they're much more motivated to kill you, and you're usually trying to target the person who's furthest ahead. Giving hippos to their enemies is one thing since you can always stop doing that, and killing you doesn't get rid of the hippos you've already created. But the curse is an ongoing problem for them that, sans removing your own card, you can't stop, so they have to play with the consideration that it's going to keep happening unless they kill you (or the curse). And if they stop being the threat, or someone else starts becoming threatening from the draw they're getting off of it, you can't easily change direction. Which is fine in games where one person has brought a powerful deck and the other players have trash, but if it's a reasonably close game could prove problematic. Still though, you're always getting at least as much draw as your opponents, so it may have some merit.
Not sure what you mean about wizened snitches (or what it's similar to? lantern of insight? I don't think it's an effect we need to prioritize). Phelddagrif generally works great as a blocker since he eats small dudes, and blocks + bounces against big non-tramply ones - plus gives the attackers' enemy CA. Pretty good disincentive to attack.
One thing that is interesting about Curse of Verbosity is that you can cast it on...yourself. You still get the draw trigger when others attack you. Might seem terrible giving people cards for attacking you, but, it's a very strange card overall.
One thing that is interesting about Curse of Verbosity is that you can cast it on...yourself. You still get the draw trigger when others attack you. Might seem terrible giving people cards for attacking you, but, it's a very strange card overall.
Is field of dreams considered a powerful card? It's pretty gross if you have mill tools but otherwise it's pretty weak. Arguably worth it politically, but pretty risky since everyone will know which board wipes you're drawing and won't overcommit, etc. I own the card and ran it once or twice without drawing it, and decided it probably wasn't worth it. As I mentioned earlier, I don't mind revealing targeted removal, but I'd like to keep counters and board wipes to myself, which is why i don't run revelation but love telepathy.
Anyway, as regards creature-based versions of cards, I do think that people tend to see easily unanswerable cards as less threatening (and less expensive as less threatening) but I'm running a lot of board wipes and I'd rather get mileage out of my value generation rather than risk having to nuke it early.
Curse of verbosity on self is kind of funny, but probably not worth it imo, unless you're trying to deck your last opponent perhaps. The goal is to make yourself as unappealing of a target as possible, and giving people cards generally goes against that policy. Plus if you target someone else, at least you can guarantee THEY won't be drawing cards off it.
I was thinking of Field of Dreams as "unique" in that "unique and/or powerful" statement, but I see what you mean.
As for my previous post about the Hunted series, I got a lot of mileage out of Hunted Dragon in Queen Marchesa and was just asking what you thought of "targeted hug" cards like that where one other player benefited from it. The strongest of the new curses is probably the red one due to how cheap it is plus the extra artifacts that you can sacrifice for abilities like Goblin Welder in a color that loves interesting effects but lacks normal card draw, but the blue one seemed also very strong. You seem to lean more towards leaning on Purple Hippo for your targeted hugs, though, which is understandable since you can do it at instant speed and control how much of a benefit someone gets rather than the Offerings or Hunted or curses.
I was thinking of Field of Dreams as "unique" in that "unique and/or powerful" statement, but I see what you mean.
As for my previous post about the Hunted series, I got a lot of mileage out of Hunted Dragon in Queen Marchesa and was just asking what you thought of "targeted hug" cards like that where one other player benefited from it. The strongest of the new curses is probably the red one due to how cheap it is plus the extra artifacts that you can sacrifice for abilities like Goblin Welder in a color that loves interesting effects but lacks normal card draw, but the blue one seemed also very strong. You seem to lean more towards leaning on Purple Hippo for your targeted hugs, though, which is understandable since you can do it at instant speed and control how much of a benefit someone gets rather than the Offerings or Hunted or curses.
For other commanders that you want to play politically, I think the hunted series (and offerings, and etc) are pretty sweet cards. They're all just kind of redundant with phelddagrif. Marchesa I also imagine gets more mileage out of the actual dragon (or whatever) than phelddagrif would, at least with this build.
I will also say that, in my experience, I prefer to separate effects that benefit me, and effects that benefit opponents. Sometimes it works fine that both are going hand in hand, but some games people will gun after me pretty hard, and it's difficult to find a time that i'd want to help someone else, so then the hunted creatures are almost as bad as they'd be in 1v1. Which is bad if you want to advance your board state by playing the dragon, and can't afford to wait until a more politically opportune moment presents itself. Or maybe the reverse, and you want to help someone else but don't want to be the threat (although irl I have a hard time imagining a 6/6 flyer makes much of a difference in how threatening you are, it's just an example). Point is, keeping them separate makes it a lot easier to play hardball when you need to, because people are ganging up on you, and it also makes it easier to fade into the background and rely exclusively on gifts when things are on an even keel. That's one of the biggest reasons I think phelddagrif stands so much taller than other politically-oriented commanders, he just offers so much more control than anyone else.
EDIT: also of note: pheld's abilties are instant speed, whereas hunteds are sorcery. So you can pull off maneuvers like helping someone else draw into an answer, or giving someone tokens in retaliation for another player killing you, or whatever. Plus it's easier to keep up answers.
To speak to the Curses, I think you potentially overlook their utility of them in a political deck. I run Curse of Opulence in my Queen Marchesa deck. It turns out to be a fantastic card. It is early game ramp, and can bring out Marchesa on turn 2. It is a soft Pillow Fort, in that it very subtly suggests that it is beneficial for them to attack someone else, and the benefit that they get is shared with you, so you are unlikely to be outpaced by it. It also doesn't directly affect the person cursed, unlike say Curse of Bloodletting, since it only slightly affects the decisions of their opponents, decisions that they were likely to make anyway. Even if you have nothing else to do with the tokens, stocking up on extra mana can mean a lot sometimes. With even a slight shift in attacks to your opponents, you can end up several life ahead in the end game, which can mean the difference between winning and losing.
I have yet to play Curse of Verbosity, since it is not in Mardu colors. I am planning a Bant, a Jeskai, and a Grixis Aikido Politics deck, and plan on trying Curse of Verbosity in each of them. I think it will have a similar but slightly stronger effect than Curse of Opulence. These are likely the only curses I will run in a political deck, since the bonus you give your opponents is at least balanced by what you get out of it, and it really does change behavior without being overbearing. Curse of Verbosity is probably going to act like a Edric, spymaster of Trest that doesn't require playing a bunch of creatures to make work for you, only less obviously beneficial to you since other people are likely triggering it and other people are drawing with you. Plus, giving your opponents some hippos to attack with, then suggesting that they can use them to gain cards, and everyone benefits (besides the cursed player), that is a really funny way to encourage strife at the table, which I find really benefits a politically minded player with a politically minded deck.
I think worrying about someone gaining too much advantage from it, and you not having control of it, is not necessary. The curse goes away when the cursed player is dead, limiting their usefulness to as long as they are helping you defeat the cursed player. The effect of giving ramp and cards to the players opposing the cursed player makes it so that the cursed player really is at a disadvantage to the table, and they cannot just concentrate on you or the other players will overwhelm them. You can never be outpaced, since you gain advantage for every card that the table gets, and they only get the advantage when they are doing what you ask them to do when you curse someone. I really have a hard time seeing how this is not a good card for a politically minded deck that wants other players doing their dirty work.
In the end, you converted me into a hippo player . Have you decided which cards from Ixalan you were going to add to the deck? I'm also interested in that budget version of the deck you mentionned earlier. All in all, I don't want to see this thread die, I love to read your thoughts on certain cards for the deck. Keep up the good work!
EDIT: he even said which of the Ixalan cards were good... Follow-up question then! Why do you run things like Fracturing Gust or Akroma's Vengeance ? From my point of view, when people have few permanents left (no enchantments or artifacts), they feel threatened and the most powerful person at the table is the one with the best lands and the best hand. And that same person just wiped their board. I think using targeted removal for dangerous enchantments or artifacts would reduce your threat-level, leave the rest for everyone else to kill eachothers with and in the end, lead to a more permissive style of play. Then, you'd have ''creature-only'' wipes when things get out of hand. There is also the fact that losing a Telepathy to something you've cast isn't great... But that's just from my experience and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
EDIT: he even said which of the Ixalan cards were good... Follow-up question then! Why do you run things like Fracturing Gust or Akroma's Vengeance ? From my point of view, when people have few permanents left (no enchantments or artifacts), they feel threatened and the most powerful person at the table is the one with the best lands and the best hand. And that same person just wiped their board. I think using targeted removal for dangerous enchantments or artifacts would reduce your threat-level, leave the rest for everyone else to kill eachothers with and in the end, lead to a more permissive style of play. Then, you'd have ''creature-only'' wipes when things get out of hand. There is also the fact that losing a Telepathy to something you've cast isn't great... But that's just from my experience and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
I think there’s 3 main reasons to run global wipes like akromas vengeance, hour of revelation, etc. 1) Sometimes the board is full of multiple threatening non-creatures and you just want to get rid of all of them, and 2) it’s better value to Kill more cards (though that’s not the focus of the deck per se, but it does count for something, especially if you’re under fire), and 3) the weakness of every answers-only control deck is that you need the right answer at the right time, or else you may die to the threat you can’t answer. Running flexible answers increases the relisbiliry of having the needed answer on time. Targeted artifact/enchantment only removal answers a fairly small percentage of problematic situations so I don’t love using them. Lacking instant speed for most global wipes hurts so I don’t run a ton though. Fracturing gust doesn’t hit creatures ofc, but it also solves some lethal damage problems and it’s instant speed so I think it’s worthy.
Being the temporary biggest threat isn’t a big deal and usually doesn’t last long in my experience. Taking some hits makes you look less intimidating anyway. Having repeatable value engines can increase the risk of being threatening, though, especially after a board wipe. Without value generation I think you’re fine though.
Killing telepathy is a bummer but it’s only 1 card. I do regrowth it frequently though, lol.
At the end of the day, though, the deck is very flexible and I’d encourage swapping any cards as you like, especially answers.
To speak to the Curses, I think you potentially overlook their utility of them in a political deck. I run Curse of Opulence in my Queen Marchesa deck. It turns out to be a fantastic card. It is early game ramp, and can bring out Marchesa on turn 2. It is a soft Pillow Fort, in that it very subtly suggests that it is beneficial for them to attack someone else, and the benefit that they get is shared with you, so you are unlikely to be outpaced by it. It also doesn't directly affect the person cursed, unlike say Curse of Bloodletting, since it only slightly affects the decisions of their opponents, decisions that they were likely to make anyway. Even if you have nothing else to do with the tokens, stocking up on extra mana can mean a lot sometimes. With even a slight shift in attacks to your opponents, you can end up several life ahead in the end game, which can mean the difference between winning and losing.
I have yet to play Curse of Verbosity, since it is not in Mardu colors. I am planning a Bant, a Jeskai, and a Grixis Aikido Politics deck, and plan on trying Curse of Verbosity in each of them. I think it will have a similar but slightly stronger effect than Curse of Opulence. These are likely the only curses I will run in a political deck, since the bonus you give your opponents is at least balanced by what you get out of it, and it really does change behavior without being overbearing. Curse of Verbosity is probably going to act like a Edric, spymaster of Trest that doesn't require playing a bunch of creatures to make work for you, only less obviously beneficial to you since other people are likely triggering it and other people are drawing with you. Plus, giving your opponents some hippos to attack with, then suggesting that they can use them to gain cards, and everyone benefits (besides the cursed player), that is a really funny way to encourage strife at the table, which I find really benefits a politically minded player with a politically minded deck.
I think worrying about someone gaining too much advantage from it, and you not having control of it, is not necessary. The curse goes away when the cursed player is dead, limiting their usefulness to as long as they are helping you defeat the cursed player. The effect of giving ramp and cards to the players opposing the cursed player makes it so that the cursed player really is at a disadvantage to the table, and they cannot just concentrate on you or the other players will overwhelm them. You can never be outpaced, since you gain advantage for every card that the table gets, and they only get the advantage when they are doing what you ask them to do when you curse someone. I really have a hard time seeing how this is not a good card for a politically minded deck that wants other players doing their dirty work.
those are good points, I may try the blue curse and see how I feel about it. My biggest worry is probably the mandatory draw, I often would rather not draw, but I am curious to try it. Thanks for the insight!
What do you think of cards like Aetherize, Aetherspouts or the previously mentionned Settle the Wreckage? Personally, I like them as most can be used politicaly and they really make players think twice before attacking you, but I fear they could be too situational and I don't want to appear as that untouchable player so I'm hesitant to add them.
I've tried the first two, and outside of mono-U I prefer Aetherize since it worked extremely well with Wheel effects. Other benefits with it is that it costs 1 cmc less than Aetherspouts and is more multicolor friendly. Settle the Wreckage looks like a nice thing to try as well; it's like a cheaper Angel of the Dire Hour, only giving them lands instead of you getting an expensive body.
What do you think of cards like Aetherize, Aetherspouts or the previously mentionned Settle the Wreckage? Personally, I like them as most can be used politicaly and they really make players think twice before attacking you, but I fear they could be too situational and I don't want to appear as that untouchable player so I'm hesitant to add them.
I use settle in my non-budget version of this deck and aetherspoouts in the $2 version. I think they're all nice panic buttons to have, although they do require leaving up a lot of mana. I think they're replaceable with fog-type effects, though (preferably the stronger ones like tangle and moment's peace). One of the bigger weakness I feel like they have is that they're a little hard to use politically. "If you attack me, it's not going to work." "Oh yeah, why?" "well...it just won't. It'll be bad." "I bet you're bluffing." "Ok, fine, it's because I have aetherspouts." "ok, in that case I attack with only a few evasive creatures and leave most of them at home." "damn." With regular targeted removal you can threaten people regardless of how they attack.
Anyway bottom line I think you should have at least a few cards that save you from an "uh oh craterhoof" moment, especially since sometimes these things show up off hard to stop effects like birthing pod. But I wouldn't go overboard on them.
I'm working on a pseudo-budget list for this deck concept before I commit to it fully, but I was wondering about your opinion on a few cards. Note: I have a break due to work where I can't play EDH for awhile so I won't be able to test things out until the project is finished.
What about theVowcycle? They seem a bit ham handed and stick-y (as opposed to carrot-y) but I do like that they throw attacks elsewhere and act as either Pacifisms or Hippo pumpers when you get to the 1v1 phase. Reducing the number of attacks Phelddagrif needs to make before killing with commander damage from six to four (three with Wildness) seems decent.
On the subject of speeding up kills, have you considered Runechanter's Pike? Again, it's ham handed and threatening but being able to randomly knock people out of the game in one or two attacks is very powerful. I jam that card into every spellslinger deck I can and it's always been good to me. Like the Tasigur deck idea I shamelessly copied from you I can see games taking forever with this deck and having a way to close things out quickly is considerate of your opponents' time.
I see you're running Bant Charm but no Treva's Charm. Treva's is notably worse since its last option is just awful, but I love modal spells because they're basically virtual card advantage. Indeed, I think including more modal spells might be the key to keeping your threat profile fairly low while still having plenty of options. You're already running a lot of the good ones, though, so I'm not sure what there is left to add.
I'm surprised you're not running Curse of the Swine as a board wipe. It's very, very good, and fits with the political reparations theme going on. Sorry I exiled your Blightsteel Colossus, here's a piggy and a hippo.
I'm working on a pseudo-budget list for this deck concept before I commit to it fully, but I was wondering about your opinion on a few cards. Note: I have a break due to work where I can't play EDH for awhile so I won't be able to test things out until the project is finished.
What about theVowcycle? They seem a bit ham handed and stick-y (as opposed to carrot-y) but I do like that they throw attacks elsewhere and act as either Pacifisms or Hippo pumpers when you get to the 1v1 phase. Reducing the number of attacks Phelddagrif needs to make before killing with commander damage from six to four (three with Wildness) seems decent.
On the subject of speeding up kills, have you considered Runechanter's Pike? Again, it's ham handed and threatening but being able to randomly knock people out of the game in one or two attacks is very powerful. I jam that card into every spellslinger deck I can and it's always been good to me. Like the Tasigur deck idea I shamelessly copied from you I can see games taking forever with this deck and having a way to close things out quickly is considerate of your opponents' time.
I see you're running Bant Charm but no Treva's Charm. Treva's is notably worse since its last option is just awful, but I love modal spells because they're basically virtual card advantage. Indeed, I think including more modal spells might be the key to keeping your threat profile fairly low while still having plenty of options. You're already running a lot of the good ones, though, so I'm not sure what there is left to add.
I'm surprised you're not running Curse of the Swine as a board wipe. It's very, very good, and fits with the political reparations theme going on. Sorry I exiled your Blightsteel Colossus, here's a piggy and a hippo.
The vows usually end up getting cut just because I think they're too narrow. They only stop big fat targetable beaters. Almost all the real threats in the format won't be effected by them. I like the idea of driving attacks elsewhere, but I think the deck needs more flexible answers to reliably handle enemy threats. I also generally dislike sorcery-speed removal (you may notice I'm running just about every instant-speed board wipe I can). I could see them being good in a particularly low-powered meta, though.
Runechanters seems like the kind of card that immediately makes you a threat if you play it, because suddenly phelddagrif swings for lethal. If you just want to use it to kill the last player, then it's pretty clunky to have rotting in your hand the whole game. I generally am very careful putting anything like that in the deck, otherwise you might find you're playing archenemy when you don't want to be.
One card that's sped up some games for me is blue sun's zenith, as it's a draw spell early/mid and a wincon late. I think that's the sort of thing you want to use to speed up the game, rather than something that has to either sit in your hand or telegraph your play like runechanters. There are probably other options that do similar things.
I dislike treva's for the same reason I dislike the vows, it just doesn't stop enough things imo. Sure, it has multiple modes, but technically it still hits strictly fewer targets than, say, beast within which only has 1 "mode" (ignoring the third mode of the charm since it sucks). Charm is still ok (beast within is one of the best, after all), I just don't think it makes the cut for me.
I decided not to include curse of the swine because the biggest advantage it has (doesn't remove your own creatures) is pretty minor for phelddagrif. I think you'd almost always just exile all creatures and bounce phelddagrif. Plus it can be quite mana intensive if you want to kill a bunch of things.
Also giving someone a replacement token isn't political imo, it's not like you have a choice (i.e. if someone is clearly the threat, you don't have the option of not giving them the pigs, or even of giving extra pigs to someone who's behind), and they have no reason (except getting blocked by phelddagrif) not to just attack you with their pigs. You could get minor political value by upgrading someone's hippos into pigs, but you could just give them another hippo instead. I think mostly it's a board wipe intended for decks that want to keep their own board, which we don't really care about.
I hope I don't sound too dismissive, I've just considered basically every card when building this deck so I do generally already have reasons why I decided to cut where I did. Runechanter's is the only one that wasn't in some pile or another during the construction of the deck, but I think in general it's risky to include cards that give a strong way to win the game into the deck, as that can detract from the whole "I'm not a threat, please kill each other instead" element of the deck, and there are many cards that fit that same role better (ezuri's predation, for example).
Nah, it's all good; you have much, much more experience playing this kind of deck so I was just fishing for more reasoning behind certain choices or omissions.
Is Future Sight too good to run here? Probably. It's a one-card card advantage engine which typically places a large target on your head. Maybe Holistic Wisdom as a recursion engine to generate powerful card selection? It's a card I think is woefully underplayed but once people read it and see it in action it might generate too much attention. You can have your Tasigur and eat it, too!
What's your reasoning behind not running any of blue's cantrips? They're deceptively powerful even in EDH which seems to go hand in hand with the deck's core. Obviously they're most powerful on turns 1-4 to smooth out land drops and such but no one bats an eye at a turn 8 Ponder despite the fact that it's still a powerful play.
I'm thinking of going tutorless in my list. Tutoring always raises an eyebrow with the people I play with even if the card has to be revealed, so cutting them in favor of more redundancy and card draw seems like a decent move towards keeping my threat profile low. I suppose there's a certain political element that comes with the reveal, but that's outweighed by the undue hate you get if you tutor for juicy targets even if they're not combo pieces and you can always freely expose what's in your hand for a similar effect. What are your typical tutor targets? Telepathy, Pulse of the Grid, and generic answer A to problem B seem like the ones you use most if I remember correctly.
Probably my favorite thing about this list is that it's really a 1v1 control deck masquerading as an EDH deck. Once a control deck establishes dominance it really doesn't matter what their win condition is (see: Pauper UB Teachings and Evincar's Justice or Curse of the Bloody Tome). Combining your win condition with abilities that help you get to that 1v1 stage where the deck is strongest is pretty ingenious honestly.
Nah, it's all good; you have much, much more experience playing this kind of deck so I was just fishing for more reasoning behind certain choices or omissions.
Is Future Sight too good to run here? Probably. It's a one-card card advantage engine which typically places a large target on your head. Maybe Holistic Wisdom as a recursion engine to generate powerful card selection? It's a card I think is woefully underplayed but once people read it and see it in action it might generate too much attention. You can have your Tasigur and eat it, too!
What's your reasoning behind not running any of blue's cantrips? They're deceptively powerful even in EDH which seems to go hand in hand with the deck's core. Obviously they're most powerful on turns 1-4 to smooth out land drops and such but no one bats an eye at a turn 8 Ponder despite the fact that it's still a powerful play.
I'm thinking of going tutorless in my list. Tutoring always raises an eyebrow with the people I play with even if the card has to be revealed, so cutting them in favor of more redundancy and card draw seems like a decent move towards keeping my threat profile low. I suppose there's a certain political element that comes with the reveal, but that's outweighed by the undue hate you get if you tutor for juicy targets even if they're not combo pieces and you can always freely expose what's in your hand for a similar effect. What are your typical tutor targets? Telepathy, Pulse of the Grid, and generic answer A to problem B seem like the ones you use most if I remember correctly.
Probably my favorite thing about this list is that it's really a 1v1 control deck masquerading as an EDH deck. Once a control deck establishes dominance it really doesn't matter what their win condition is (see: Pauper UB Teachings and Evincar's Justice or Curse of the Bloody Tome). Combining your win condition with abilities that help you get to that 1v1 stage where the deck is strongest is pretty ingenious honestly.
future sight: I've rambled in previous posts about revealing your own cards: in general I'm against it. Revealing targeted removal is ok-ish and sometimes beneficial, revealing counters is sometimes ok but often problematic, and revealing board wipes is almost always bad news (revealing value cards is usually fine). So I don't think I'd want to play anything that forces me to reveal all my draws (plus the risk of being too strong and making you the threat, and the fact that it tends to get wiped if it doesn't get removed by an opponent first). I also wouldn't want to play courser of kruphix, though, despite the fact that the draw power is pretty safe. Something like into the wilds by contrast seems fine (though not amazing).
holistic wisdom (which I agree is sweet) is kinda in the same boat. As long as you have wipes in your grave people will be playing as though you have a board wipe in hand, which is generally very bad. I think it'd depend a lot on how your opponents play, but if I was playing against it I'd basically treat it like they're whole graveyard is in their hand...which is pretty likely to make you the threat.
Cantrips I tend not to run just because I have a hard time cutting to 100 cards and I like to include as many unique effects as possible to see how I feel about them. It's likely that the best version of this deck runs brainstorm/ponder/opt/etc, though, just to smooth out the draws. I'd say give it a shot.
I've been mostly tutorless with my current 2dh version (just long term plans). I think mystic tutor is worth it for sure, I also like merchant's scroll, the others are a little less great. Single-shot draw has been a good way to keep threat profile low. And yeah those are generally my targets, although the latest version runs blue suns zenith which I've tutored for in the late-game.
Yeah it does operate a lot like the classic 1:1 control deck, like the RTR-era ones with aetherling as the one, totally unkillable wincon. It is a little boring to play 1:1 of course but it gets the job done decently. Phelddagrif is actually a pretty legitimate wincon too, nearly aetherling levels of unkillability and evasion.
The Kansas City Shuffle, to me, is the essence of this design. The subterfuge is that you play your opponents against each other even if they realize it, because they can't ignore the other opponents who are more actively attempting to knock them out of the game than you are.
While we wait for the Rivals of Ixalan spoilers, here's Kansas City Shuffle in song form.
Feels perfect for thread theme.
My question to you: how do you actually win the game? Other players have win cons, you only seem to have your commander AND you are constantly giving gifts to everyone else. How do you end up actually winning those games?
most of the time cmdr dies to Collateral damage. To accomplish a position to bargain, there must be benefits for the table.. a fragile general with strong control = hard to achieve the gazing part
I don't see how he could achieve any of those in my play group. Commander damage with a 4/4 and no protection? Attrition with less than 10 CA engines and less than 10 accelerators? He doesn't even have anything on the board. He can use fogs or removals against the big fatties, but will he do the same on all the little creatures who go for a few damage a turn? Tymna, edric and saskia would love using you as a free way to develop their game plan.
Sure you can push people to fight between them most of the time, I can definitely see you reaching a 1v1 situation most of the time in friendly multiplayer, but I don't know how you expect to actually win then.
most of the time cmdr dies to Collateral damage. To accomplish a position to bargain, there must be benefits for the table.. a fragile general with strong control = hard to achieve the gazing part
First, Phelddagrif already has evasion, as it can gain flying and/or trample. It can return itself to hand and avoid mass-wipes as well as targeted removal, so it should always cost only 4 cmc while blanking out removal. It's like an older version of Derevi, or a bant version of Wydwen, the Biting Gale. These two things make it hard to deal with while it eventually kills a player with Commander Damage.
Secondly, the deck itself more than makes up for the 4/4 body vs larger creatures or opponents going wide. It's a bant control deck. You have endless tools to stabilize the board or prevent a combo from going off while giving players incentives to work with you. Extra bodies, even if 1/1s, are not a terrible thing as it can give people a chance to go wide enough to get past blockers and eliminate planeswalkers and other players, and an extra card draw can be worth even more in their eyes. It's not group hug, but very targeted hugs, where you can use the benefits you are capable of giving out to make deals while still being able to defend yourself with a hand full of answers. You don't need to spend answers when other players already are looking at the boardstate and can judge for themselves what needs removing. You're just helping to nudge that balance one way or another until it's a 1v1 game with a weakened opponent.
Tl;dr: You work with others so they feel like they are winning and achieving common goals until you are the last one standing, killing the final opponent with Phelddagrif.
Kissmyassassin hit the nail on the head. Phelddagrif is actually a pretty hard to handle beater, and bant control has excellent tools for virtually any situation.
Personally I use rk post’s hippo tokens, but there are a lot of options. I like the scg ones but they’re pretty expensive.
I've been using the silliest looking thing I could find for them. They were also really cheap in foils for 20 of them.
I ordered some others though for people who might be a stickler about them not being green or 1/1s, but so far I've not any complaints. People like getting shiny silly things.
WUBSente: The Politics and Metaphor of Stones
My Vampire Hunter Kit Innistrad Themed Cube!
Diviner spirit I think is a reasonable choice for repeatable CA that has a built-in limitation to keep it less threatening. That said, it can definitely draw hate when it's drawing 4 cards a turn for the enemies of (one of the other players). It's also pretty killable, which I generally strive to avoid with this deck, because I want my opponents removal killing each others' stuff, not mine. And there are games where it's hard to find anyone who's really willing to be an ally, and then it's hard to find a lot of use for it. Same deal for the blue offering. I'd rather just use a regular draw spell, and then provide enemy draw via phelddagrif if I want that effect.
curse of verbosity is pretty interesting, hadn't considered it. I think there is a price to be paid when you explicitly single someone out, though, they're much more motivated to kill you, and you're usually trying to target the person who's furthest ahead. Giving hippos to their enemies is one thing since you can always stop doing that, and killing you doesn't get rid of the hippos you've already created. But the curse is an ongoing problem for them that, sans removing your own card, you can't stop, so they have to play with the consideration that it's going to keep happening unless they kill you (or the curse). And if they stop being the threat, or someone else starts becoming threatening from the draw they're getting off of it, you can't easily change direction. Which is fine in games where one person has brought a powerful deck and the other players have trash, but if it's a reasonably close game could prove problematic. Still though, you're always getting at least as much draw as your opponents, so it may have some merit.
Not sure what you mean about wizened snitches (or what it's similar to? lantern of insight? I don't think it's an effect we need to prioritize). Phelddagrif generally works great as a blocker since he eats small dudes, and blocks + bounces against big non-tramply ones - plus gives the attackers' enemy CA. Pretty good disincentive to attack.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
One thing that is interesting about Curse of Verbosity is that you can cast it on...yourself. You still get the draw trigger when others attack you. Might seem terrible giving people cards for attacking you, but, it's a very strange card overall.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Anyway, as regards creature-based versions of cards, I do think that people tend to see easily unanswerable cards as less threatening (and less expensive as less threatening) but I'm running a lot of board wipes and I'd rather get mileage out of my value generation rather than risk having to nuke it early.
Curse of verbosity on self is kind of funny, but probably not worth it imo, unless you're trying to deck your last opponent perhaps. The goal is to make yourself as unappealing of a target as possible, and giving people cards generally goes against that policy. Plus if you target someone else, at least you can guarantee THEY won't be drawing cards off it.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
As for my previous post about the Hunted series, I got a lot of mileage out of Hunted Dragon in Queen Marchesa and was just asking what you thought of "targeted hug" cards like that where one other player benefited from it. The strongest of the new curses is probably the red one due to how cheap it is plus the extra artifacts that you can sacrifice for abilities like Goblin Welder in a color that loves interesting effects but lacks normal card draw, but the blue one seemed also very strong. You seem to lean more towards leaning on Purple Hippo for your targeted hugs, though, which is understandable since you can do it at instant speed and control how much of a benefit someone gets rather than the Offerings or Hunted or curses.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
I will also say that, in my experience, I prefer to separate effects that benefit me, and effects that benefit opponents. Sometimes it works fine that both are going hand in hand, but some games people will gun after me pretty hard, and it's difficult to find a time that i'd want to help someone else, so then the hunted creatures are almost as bad as they'd be in 1v1. Which is bad if you want to advance your board state by playing the dragon, and can't afford to wait until a more politically opportune moment presents itself. Or maybe the reverse, and you want to help someone else but don't want to be the threat (although irl I have a hard time imagining a 6/6 flyer makes much of a difference in how threatening you are, it's just an example). Point is, keeping them separate makes it a lot easier to play hardball when you need to, because people are ganging up on you, and it also makes it easier to fade into the background and rely exclusively on gifts when things are on an even keel. That's one of the biggest reasons I think phelddagrif stands so much taller than other politically-oriented commanders, he just offers so much more control than anyone else.
EDIT: also of note: pheld's abilties are instant speed, whereas hunteds are sorcery. So you can pull off maneuvers like helping someone else draw into an answer, or giving someone tokens in retaliation for another player killing you, or whatever. Plus it's easier to keep up answers.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I have yet to play Curse of Verbosity, since it is not in Mardu colors. I am planning a Bant, a Jeskai, and a Grixis Aikido Politics deck, and plan on trying Curse of Verbosity in each of them. I think it will have a similar but slightly stronger effect than Curse of Opulence. These are likely the only curses I will run in a political deck, since the bonus you give your opponents is at least balanced by what you get out of it, and it really does change behavior without being overbearing. Curse of Verbosity is probably going to act like a Edric, spymaster of Trest that doesn't require playing a bunch of creatures to make work for you, only less obviously beneficial to you since other people are likely triggering it and other people are drawing with you. Plus, giving your opponents some hippos to attack with, then suggesting that they can use them to gain cards, and everyone benefits (besides the cursed player), that is a really funny way to encourage strife at the table, which I find really benefits a politically minded player with a politically minded deck.
I think worrying about someone gaining too much advantage from it, and you not having control of it, is not necessary. The curse goes away when the cursed player is dead, limiting their usefulness to as long as they are helping you defeat the cursed player. The effect of giving ramp and cards to the players opposing the cursed player makes it so that the cursed player really is at a disadvantage to the table, and they cannot just concentrate on you or the other players will overwhelm them. You can never be outpaced, since you gain advantage for every card that the table gets, and they only get the advantage when they are doing what you ask them to do when you curse someone. I really have a hard time seeing how this is not a good card for a politically minded deck that wants other players doing their dirty work.
WUBSente: The Politics and Metaphor of Stones
My Vampire Hunter Kit Innistrad Themed Cube!
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
EDIT: he even said which of the Ixalan cards were good... Follow-up question then! Why do you run things like Fracturing Gust or Akroma's Vengeance ? From my point of view, when people have few permanents left (no enchantments or artifacts), they feel threatened and the most powerful person at the table is the one with the best lands and the best hand. And that same person just wiped their board. I think using targeted removal for dangerous enchantments or artifacts would reduce your threat-level, leave the rest for everyone else to kill eachothers with and in the end, lead to a more permissive style of play. Then, you'd have ''creature-only'' wipes when things get out of hand. There is also the fact that losing a Telepathy to something you've cast isn't great... But that's just from my experience and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Being the temporary biggest threat isn’t a big deal and usually doesn’t last long in my experience. Taking some hits makes you look less intimidating anyway. Having repeatable value engines can increase the risk of being threatening, though, especially after a board wipe. Without value generation I think you’re fine though.
Killing telepathy is a bummer but it’s only 1 card. I do regrowth it frequently though, lol.
At the end of the day, though, the deck is very flexible and I’d encourage swapping any cards as you like, especially answers. those are good points, I may try the blue curse and see how I feel about it. My biggest worry is probably the mandatory draw, I often would rather not draw, but I am curious to try it. Thanks for the insight!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Anyway bottom line I think you should have at least a few cards that save you from an "uh oh craterhoof" moment, especially since sometimes these things show up off hard to stop effects like birthing pod. But I wouldn't go overboard on them.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
What about the Vow cycle? They seem a bit ham handed and stick-y (as opposed to carrot-y) but I do like that they throw attacks elsewhere and act as either Pacifisms or Hippo pumpers when you get to the 1v1 phase. Reducing the number of attacks Phelddagrif needs to make before killing with commander damage from six to four (three with Wildness) seems decent.
On the subject of speeding up kills, have you considered Runechanter's Pike? Again, it's ham handed and threatening but being able to randomly knock people out of the game in one or two attacks is very powerful. I jam that card into every spellslinger deck I can and it's always been good to me. Like the Tasigur deck idea I shamelessly copied from you I can see games taking forever with this deck and having a way to close things out quickly is considerate of your opponents' time.
I see you're running Bant Charm but no Treva's Charm. Treva's is notably worse since its last option is just awful, but I love modal spells because they're basically virtual card advantage. Indeed, I think including more modal spells might be the key to keeping your threat profile fairly low while still having plenty of options. You're already running a lot of the good ones, though, so I'm not sure what there is left to add.
I'm surprised you're not running Curse of the Swine as a board wipe. It's very, very good, and fits with the political reparations theme going on. Sorry I exiled your Blightsteel Colossus, here's a piggy and a hippo.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Runechanters seems like the kind of card that immediately makes you a threat if you play it, because suddenly phelddagrif swings for lethal. If you just want to use it to kill the last player, then it's pretty clunky to have rotting in your hand the whole game. I generally am very careful putting anything like that in the deck, otherwise you might find you're playing archenemy when you don't want to be.
One card that's sped up some games for me is blue sun's zenith, as it's a draw spell early/mid and a wincon late. I think that's the sort of thing you want to use to speed up the game, rather than something that has to either sit in your hand or telegraph your play like runechanters. There are probably other options that do similar things.
I dislike treva's for the same reason I dislike the vows, it just doesn't stop enough things imo. Sure, it has multiple modes, but technically it still hits strictly fewer targets than, say, beast within which only has 1 "mode" (ignoring the third mode of the charm since it sucks). Charm is still ok (beast within is one of the best, after all), I just don't think it makes the cut for me.
I decided not to include curse of the swine because the biggest advantage it has (doesn't remove your own creatures) is pretty minor for phelddagrif. I think you'd almost always just exile all creatures and bounce phelddagrif. Plus it can be quite mana intensive if you want to kill a bunch of things.
Also giving someone a replacement token isn't political imo, it's not like you have a choice (i.e. if someone is clearly the threat, you don't have the option of not giving them the pigs, or even of giving extra pigs to someone who's behind), and they have no reason (except getting blocked by phelddagrif) not to just attack you with their pigs. You could get minor political value by upgrading someone's hippos into pigs, but you could just give them another hippo instead. I think mostly it's a board wipe intended for decks that want to keep their own board, which we don't really care about.
I hope I don't sound too dismissive, I've just considered basically every card when building this deck so I do generally already have reasons why I decided to cut where I did. Runechanter's is the only one that wasn't in some pile or another during the construction of the deck, but I think in general it's risky to include cards that give a strong way to win the game into the deck, as that can detract from the whole "I'm not a threat, please kill each other instead" element of the deck, and there are many cards that fit that same role better (ezuri's predation, for example).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Nah, it's all good; you have much, much more experience playing this kind of deck so I was just fishing for more reasoning behind certain choices or omissions.
Is Future Sight too good to run here? Probably. It's a one-card card advantage engine which typically places a large target on your head. Maybe Holistic Wisdom as a recursion engine to generate powerful card selection? It's a card I think is woefully underplayed but once people read it and see it in action it might generate too much attention. You can have your Tasigur and eat it, too!
What's your reasoning behind not running any of blue's cantrips? They're deceptively powerful even in EDH which seems to go hand in hand with the deck's core. Obviously they're most powerful on turns 1-4 to smooth out land drops and such but no one bats an eye at a turn 8 Ponder despite the fact that it's still a powerful play.
I'm thinking of going tutorless in my list. Tutoring always raises an eyebrow with the people I play with even if the card has to be revealed, so cutting them in favor of more redundancy and card draw seems like a decent move towards keeping my threat profile low. I suppose there's a certain political element that comes with the reveal, but that's outweighed by the undue hate you get if you tutor for juicy targets even if they're not combo pieces and you can always freely expose what's in your hand for a similar effect. What are your typical tutor targets? Telepathy, Pulse of the Grid, and generic answer A to problem B seem like the ones you use most if I remember correctly.
Probably my favorite thing about this list is that it's really a 1v1 control deck masquerading as an EDH deck. Once a control deck establishes dominance it really doesn't matter what their win condition is (see: Pauper UB Teachings and Evincar's Justice or Curse of the Bloody Tome). Combining your win condition with abilities that help you get to that 1v1 stage where the deck is strongest is pretty ingenious honestly.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
holistic wisdom (which I agree is sweet) is kinda in the same boat. As long as you have wipes in your grave people will be playing as though you have a board wipe in hand, which is generally very bad. I think it'd depend a lot on how your opponents play, but if I was playing against it I'd basically treat it like they're whole graveyard is in their hand...which is pretty likely to make you the threat.
Cantrips I tend not to run just because I have a hard time cutting to 100 cards and I like to include as many unique effects as possible to see how I feel about them. It's likely that the best version of this deck runs brainstorm/ponder/opt/etc, though, just to smooth out the draws. I'd say give it a shot.
I've been mostly tutorless with my current 2dh version (just long term plans). I think mystic tutor is worth it for sure, I also like merchant's scroll, the others are a little less great. Single-shot draw has been a good way to keep threat profile low. And yeah those are generally my targets, although the latest version runs blue suns zenith which I've tutored for in the late-game.
Yeah it does operate a lot like the classic 1:1 control deck, like the RTR-era ones with aetherling as the one, totally unkillable wincon. It is a little boring to play 1:1 of course but it gets the job done decently. Phelddagrif is actually a pretty legitimate wincon too, nearly aetherling levels of unkillability and evasion.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
While we wait for the Rivals of Ixalan spoilers, here's Kansas City Shuffle in song form.
Feels perfect for thread theme.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
First, Phelddagrif already has evasion, as it can gain flying and/or trample. It can return itself to hand and avoid mass-wipes as well as targeted removal, so it should always cost only 4 cmc while blanking out removal. It's like an older version of Derevi, or a bant version of Wydwen, the Biting Gale. These two things make it hard to deal with while it eventually kills a player with Commander Damage.
Secondly, the deck itself more than makes up for the 4/4 body vs larger creatures or opponents going wide. It's a bant control deck. You have endless tools to stabilize the board or prevent a combo from going off while giving players incentives to work with you. Extra bodies, even if 1/1s, are not a terrible thing as it can give people a chance to go wide enough to get past blockers and eliminate planeswalkers and other players, and an extra card draw can be worth even more in their eyes. It's not group hug, but very targeted hugs, where you can use the benefits you are capable of giving out to make deals while still being able to defend yourself with a hand full of answers. You don't need to spend answers when other players already are looking at the boardstate and can judge for themselves what needs removing. You're just helping to nudge that balance one way or another until it's a 1v1 game with a weakened opponent.
Tl;dr: You work with others so they feel like they are winning and achieving common goals until you are the last one standing, killing the final opponent with Phelddagrif.
Hippo Can't Be Stopped.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Personally I use rk post’s hippo tokens, but there are a lot of options. I like the scg ones but they’re pretty expensive.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I've been using the silliest looking thing I could find for them. They were also really cheap in foils for 20 of them.
I ordered some others though for people who might be a stickler about them not being green or 1/1s, but so far I've not any complaints. People like getting shiny silly things.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch