Quote from KissMyAssassin »I loved your Tasigur deck which inspired me early on his release to build a version of my own, and reading about your Phelddagrif deck(s!) have been great in helping set into words the sort of politicking that makes EDH fun.
For such a deck, what do you think of targeted "help" similar to the Hippo overlord?
Benevolent Offering Sylvan Offering Hunted Phantasm Diviner Spirit
...and so on.
Also what about creatures like Wizened Snitches that act similar to more powerful things? They die in wraths but also add extra dissentives for people who might decide to turn sideways at you with small, annoying creatures.
Curse of Verbosity also seems like you could draw a ton off of it and the random hippos you give to people, but, could put a huge target on you too for how much you draw off of it.
Quote from KissMyAssassin »Wizened Snitches is also similar to Field of Dreams, but it was just an example of creatures that are similar to noncreature permanents/spells that are rather unique and/or powerful, like Ramunap Excavator/Crucible of Worlds and False Prophet/Final Judgment.
One thing that is interesting about Curse of Verbosity is that you can cast it on...yourself. You still get the draw trigger when others attack you. Might seem terrible giving people cards for attacking you, but, it's a very strange card overall.
Quote from KissMyAssassin »I was thinking of Field of Dreams as "unique" in that "unique and/or powerful" statement, but I see what you mean.
As for my previous post about the Hunted series, I got a lot of mileage out of Hunted Dragon in Queen Marchesa and was just asking what you thought of "targeted hug" cards like that where one other player benefited from it. The strongest of the new curses is probably the red one due to how cheap it is plus the extra artifacts that you can sacrifice for abilities like Goblin Welder in a color that loves interesting effects but lacks normal card draw, but the blue one seemed also very strong. You seem to lean more towards leaning on Purple Hippo for your targeted hugs, though, which is understandable since you can do it at instant speed and control how much of a benefit someone gets rather than the Offerings or Hunted or curses.
Quote from glembo2 »Oh thanks!
EDIT: he even said which of the Ixalan cards were good... Follow-up question then! Why do you run things like Fracturing Gust or Akroma's Vengeance ? From my point of view, when people have few permanents left (no enchantments or artifacts), they feel threatened and the most powerful person at the table is the one with the best lands and the best hand. And that same person just wiped their board. I think using targeted removal for dangerous enchantments or artifacts would reduce your threat-level, leave the rest for everyone else to kill eachothers with and in the end, lead to a more permissive style of play. Then, you'd have ''creature-only'' wipes when things get out of hand. There is also the fact that losing a Telepathy to something you've cast isn't great... But that's just from my experience and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Quote from precociousapprentice »To speak to the Curses, I think you potentially overlook their utility of them in a political deck. I run Curse of Opulence in my Queen Marchesa deck. It turns out to be a fantastic card. It is early game ramp, and can bring out Marchesa on turn 2. It is a soft Pillow Fort, in that it very subtly suggests that it is beneficial for them to attack someone else, and the benefit that they get is shared with you, so you are unlikely to be outpaced by it. It also doesn't directly affect the person cursed, unlike say Curse of Bloodletting, since it only slightly affects the decisions of their opponents, decisions that they were likely to make anyway. Even if you have nothing else to do with the tokens, stocking up on extra mana can mean a lot sometimes. With even a slight shift in attacks to your opponents, you can end up several life ahead in the end game, which can mean the difference between winning and losing.
I have yet to play Curse of Verbosity, since it is not in Mardu colors. I am planning a Bant, a Jeskai, and a Grixis Aikido Politics deck, and plan on trying Curse of Verbosity in each of them. I think it will have a similar but slightly stronger effect than Curse of Opulence. These are likely the only curses I will run in a political deck, since the bonus you give your opponents is at least balanced by what you get out of it, and it really does change behavior without being overbearing. Curse of Verbosity is probably going to act like a Edric, spymaster of Trest that doesn't require playing a bunch of creatures to make work for you, only less obviously beneficial to you since other people are likely triggering it and other people are drawing with you. Plus, giving your opponents some hippos to attack with, then suggesting that they can use them to gain cards, and everyone benefits (besides the cursed player), that is a really funny way to encourage strife at the table, which I find really benefits a politically minded player with a politically minded deck.
I think worrying about someone gaining too much advantage from it, and you not having control of it, is not necessary. The curse goes away when the cursed player is dead, limiting their usefulness to as long as they are helping you defeat the cursed player. The effect of giving ramp and cards to the players opposing the cursed player makes it so that the cursed player really is at a disadvantage to the table, and they cannot just concentrate on you or the other players will overwhelm them. You can never be outpaced, since you gain advantage for every card that the table gets, and they only get the advantage when they are doing what you ask them to do when you curse someone. I really have a hard time seeing how this is not a good card for a politically minded deck that wants other players doing their dirty work.
Quote from glembo2 »What do you think of cards like Aetherize, Aetherspouts or the previously mentionned Settle the Wreckage? Personally, I like them as most can be used politicaly and they really make players think twice before attacking you, but I fear they could be too situational and I don't want to appear as that untouchable player so I'm hesitant to add them.
Quote from GloriousGoose »I'm working on a pseudo-budget list for this deck concept before I commit to it fully, but I was wondering about your opinion on a few cards. Note: I have a break due to work where I can't play EDH for awhile so I won't be able to test things out until the project is finished.
What about the Vow cycle? They seem a bit ham handed and stick-y (as opposed to carrot-y) but I do like that they throw attacks elsewhere and act as either Pacifisms or Hippo pumpers when you get to the 1v1 phase. Reducing the number of attacks Phelddagrif needs to make before killing with commander damage from six to four (three with Wildness) seems decent.
On the subject of speeding up kills, have you considered Runechanter's Pike? Again, it's ham handed and threatening but being able to randomly knock people out of the game in one or two attacks is very powerful. I jam that card into every spellslinger deck I can and it's always been good to me. Like the Tasigur deck idea I shamelessly copied from you I can see games taking forever with this deck and having a way to close things out quickly is considerate of your opponents' time.
I see you're running Bant Charm but no Treva's Charm. Treva's is notably worse since its last option is just awful, but I love modal spells because they're basically virtual card advantage. Indeed, I think including more modal spells might be the key to keeping your threat profile fairly low while still having plenty of options. You're already running a lot of the good ones, though, so I'm not sure what there is left to add.
I'm surprised you're not running Curse of the Swine as a board wipe. It's very, very good, and fits with the political reparations theme going on. Sorry I exiled your Blightsteel Colossus, here's a piggy and a hippo.
Quote from DirkGently »I hope I don't sound too dismissive [...]
Quote from GloriousGoose »Quote from DirkGently »I hope I don't sound too dismissive [...]
Nah, it's all good; you have much, much more experience playing this kind of deck so I was just fishing for more reasoning behind certain choices or omissions.
Is Future Sight too good to run here? Probably. It's a one-card card advantage engine which typically places a large target on your head. Maybe Holistic Wisdom as a recursion engine to generate powerful card selection? It's a card I think is woefully underplayed but once people read it and see it in action it might generate too much attention. You can have your Tasigur and eat it, too!
What's your reasoning behind not running any of blue's cantrips? They're deceptively powerful even in EDH which seems to go hand in hand with the deck's core. Obviously they're most powerful on turns 1-4 to smooth out land drops and such but no one bats an eye at a turn 8 Ponder despite the fact that it's still a powerful play.
I'm thinking of going tutorless in my list. Tutoring always raises an eyebrow with the people I play with even if the card has to be revealed, so cutting them in favor of more redundancy and card draw seems like a decent move towards keeping my threat profile low. I suppose there's a certain political element that comes with the reveal, but that's outweighed by the undue hate you get if you tutor for juicy targets even if they're not combo pieces and you can always freely expose what's in your hand for a similar effect. What are your typical tutor targets? Telepathy, Pulse of the Grid, and generic answer A to problem B seem like the ones you use most if I remember correctly.
Probably my favorite thing about this list is that it's really a 1v1 control deck masquerading as an EDH deck. Once a control deck establishes dominance it really doesn't matter what their win condition is (see: Pauper UB Teachings and Evincar's Justice or Curse of the Bloody Tome). Combining your win condition with abilities that help you get to that 1v1 stage where the deck is strongest is pretty ingenious honestly.
Quote from lyonhaert »
The Kansas City Shuffle, to me, is the essence of this design. The subterfuge is that you play your opponents against each other even if they realize it, because they can't ignore the other opponents who are more actively attempting to knock them out of the game than you are.
Quote from kiliath »My question to you: how do you actually win the game? Other players have win cons, you only seem to have your commander AND you are constantly giving gifts to everyone else. How do you end up actually winning those games?
Quote from kiliath »I don't see how he could achieve any of those in my play group. Commander damage with a 4/4 and no protection? Attrition with less than 10 CA engines and less than 10 accelerators? He doesn't even have anything on the board. He can use fogs or removals against the big fatties, but will he do the same on all the little creatures who go for a few damage a turn? Tymna, edric and saskia would love using you as a free way to develop their game plan.
Sure you can push people to fight between them most of the time, I can definitely see you reaching a 1v1 situation most of the time in friendly multiplayer, but I don't know how you expect to actually win then.
Quote from yeedeehege »most of the time cmdr dies to Collateral damage. To accomplish a position to bargain, there must be benefits for the table.. a fragile general with strong control = hard to achieve the gazing part