Kess is amazing. I run a similar list to the OP, literally like a 10 card difference. I'm not sure how to post it like that on a phone so I just won't. Search for azcanta is great in here. It comes online quickly and the wanna be impulses is relevant, running my 2 in my standard deck but my next one will go in kess for sure. I like secrets of the dead even though I run rustic study in mine, it's just strictly better. Primal amulet is pretty good too, sadly it makes all our damage based sweeps kill kess. Also its real fun to cast sudden spoiling from the grave with a pyroclasm on the stack while amulet is flipped. Also scorpion god made my list. There is alot of token gens in my play group so this card helps draw more while pinging dudes. Also its great fun to put a counter on something like a blightsteel and turn it into a frog.
Have you tested Primal Amulet? I was concerned about the damage based spells killing Kess, Dissident Mage if copied, but you could just not use that land if you want to only cast it once. My concern is Primal Amulet is too slow. You pay 4 mana, and cast 4 spells (probably of the course of 2 or 3 turns) to get the transformation and that seems like a lot of work. Having instant and sorcery spells cost 1 less to cast seems good, but a lot of our spells only cost one colored mana in the first place so they are not helped by Primal Amulet (Chain Lightning, Preordain, Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, etc.
Kess is amazing. I run a similar list to the OP, literally like a 10 card difference. I'm not sure how to post it like that on a phone so I just won't. Search for azcanta is great in here. It comes online quickly and the wanna be impulses is relevant, running my 2 in my standard deck but my next one will go in kess for sure. I like secrets of the dead even though I run rustic study in mine, it's just strictly better. Primal amulet is pretty good too, sadly it makes all our damage based sweeps kill kess. Also its real fun to cast sudden spoiling from the grave with a pyroclasm on the stack while amulet is flipped. Also scorpion god made my list. There is alot of token gens in my play group so this card helps draw more while pinging dudes. Also its great fun to put a counter on something like a blightsteel and turn it into a frog.
Have you tested Primal Amulet? I was concerned about the damage based spells killing Kess, Dissident Mage if copied, but you could just not use that land if you want to only cast it once. My concern is Primal Amulet is too slow. You pay 4 mana, and cast 4 spells (probably of the course of 2 or 3 turns) to get the transformation and that seems like a lot of work. Having instant and sorcery spells cost 1 less to cast seems good, but a lot of our spells only cost one colored mana in the first place so they are not helped by Primal Amulet (Chain Lightning, Preordain, Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, etc.
It's best used for the spot removal when flipped. Killing 4 creatures over 2 turns with just 1 terminate is pure value. Same turn If you can snap or frantic search! If you have riptide laboratory you can avoid kess destruction with the sweeps. It is a bit slow though, I usually slam it down after the board state gets settled a bit to help close out the game. It's definately not a turn 4 play, there's just other stuff we want to do then. It's great around turn 8 with kess on board and a couple of cantrips in grave and hand. Also keep in mind unflipped it makes pyroclasm cost 1 red and anger is only 2 red, but yeah not the best synergy with the cantrips. As for the work we put in to flipping it, it just comes naturally. I only run 8 critters besides kess so if i cant flip it in 1 or 2 turns im gonna lose anyways. Also played it with torment of hailfire for 6 earlier today, then did it from the grave next turn, my play group hated it! Its definately not for everyone though. My playgroup isnt as cutthroat as some are so it's a bit easier to get away with some of the slower value cards.
Count me as a vote for Search for Azcanta. It should mean a lot coming from me too, since I don't value very many things that take a turn or more to return their investment. The card is just solid though at 2cmc. I almost don't want to flip it, the scry-plus effect is so strong.
You don't have to flip it. Given that it is free for one into your graveyard vs 2U for best of 4 into your hand, it is kind of a tough call. You can delay flipping it, even if you would want it flipped eventually.
A quick comment on Primal Amulet, note that the flip is a may ability and make sure you can use the mana it produces to cast something before an opponent gets priority, there is no shortage of land destruction in edh and most decks run at least a little (if only a ghost quarter or something). That being said, it has won me every game its managed to stick on the battlefield for and several where it hasn't stuck (because even copying the right thing once is good enough).
Flipping it isn't a problem in my Kess deck at least, plenty of low mana spells I'm playing every turn anyway, the mana cost of the card is higher than I'd like and there are times it sits in my hand for a few turns because other things are more important to do, but its usually worth it in the end.
Overall I recommend the card if you are taking advantage of a lot of 1-2 mana spells.
If you face a lot of control decks, then Sphinx of the Final Word can be a good wincon. I think it's good even if you don't play against a lot of control decks, as it's just nice to be able to guarantee no counter. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir can also help in this regard but I feel the Sphinx is better for this deck as it has a bigger body + evasion.
I also like Call the Skybreaker + Dakmor Salvage for this deck. You spend your draw dredging, but because of kess dredging is somewhat equivalent to drawing anyway. There's only so much 5/5 flying elementals opponents can handle. Dragon Roost can fullfill a similar role, though less stylish.
I've been playing Kess for a couple of weeks now, and I think it's really great. It works out as a nice control deck, but I always have the problem to keep control until the end. My meta are mostly control decks. Creatures don't stay on the board too long. What do you think is the best "win condition" in the deck ?
I recently updated the deck list in the original thread, I plan on updating the change log and some other sections when I get some free. I have been away from this thread, but I have still be playing the deck and having great success.
No Mercy and Recoil have been over performing. I have been trying to avoid enchantments as this is a spells matters deck, but No Mercy is just too powerful and valuable not to run. Recoil is a fantastic tempo play that works great later in the game when a player has no cards in their hand. At that point is also functions as a land destruction spell. Consign to Dream also has been incredibly useful, although that may just be a meta thing with me (green is incredibly popular). It's so satisfying to use it in response to a green playing casting a spell like Cultivate.
Lately I've been playing against a lot of tribal decks that go wide (Elves, Goblins, Humans, etc.) so I've been getting extraordinary value out of Pryoclasm and Anger of the Gods. It's fun to see my opponents squirm knowing I can cast it again from my graveyard!
I also wanted to mention that recently spoiled card, Vona's Hunger. It seems promising for Kess, Dissident Mage. It functions as a Diabolic Edict for all opponents and it has an amazing upside during the late game once we have more lands and mana rocks out. I certainly plan to test it and it seems like a potential strong contender for this list.
This deck has become one of my favorite EDH projects I've ever worked on. At this point I'm at about 97% complete with foiling out the deck (I'm holding out for reprints for Preordain and Sleight of Hand while I am also working towards acquiring a foil Scalding Tarn).
I'm still very curious to hear any feedback on the list or general experience you have playing with and against Kess, Dissident Mage.
I really love the deck idea behind Kess and i used every information from all of your comments and built this deck I will test today. It was very difficult for me to cut all the spells which are now shown in the sideboard section!
I would love to play a 200 card deck to be honest
Anyway I would really like to get some feedback and of course I will tell you guys about my experience with this one.
Many choices I made and cards I did/did not include are difficult decisions and very meta dependend.
I like your deck, it seems like you picked a lot of good spells.
How is Windfall? It seems like a really strong card I've been meaning to test. I worry that it fuels other graveyard based decks and increases the likelihood of our opponents drawing into removal from Kess, Dissident Mage or graveyard hate against us.
I'd also be curious to hear your thoughts about Disrupt Decorum?
I don't like Mizzix's Mastery. If we overload it, we basically use our entire graveyard in one turn, rather than gaining incremental value out of Kess, Dissident Mage. One thing that is great about having her in the command zone is always being able to point to a spell from earlier we can use to answer a problem on the board or give us more card advantage.
As Foretold is too slow, it's really bad if we play it any turn after turn 4 because it takes forever to accumulate counters and by the time it's the late game we shouldn't have mana problems.
Mana Geyser may generate a lot of mana, but other than Torment of Hailfire, I can't figure out what we could do with a bunch of red mana.
I run a similar list, and I recommend Harvester of souls. With all the removal and boardwipes, he draw a lot of cards and get less hate that consecrated sphinx.
I am super hyped on building a Kess deck, and this shell looks like so much fun. I'm new in EDH and play mostly 1v1, pretty casual, and only occasionally play multiplayer. How's the deck for 1v1, and what changes/considerations would you make, if any?
The deck as described in the original thread is fine for these purposes. I play 1 v 1 sometimes and the deck performs very well. You may want to cut Blatant Thievery and maybe lower the curve by removing a few of the large creatures.
@PipeMen,
Harvester of Souls is a great suggestion and is something I'd like to test.
Have you tested Primal Amulet? I was concerned about the damage based spells killing Kess, Dissident Mage if copied, but you could just not use that land if you want to only cast it once. My concern is Primal Amulet is too slow. You pay 4 mana, and cast 4 spells (probably of the course of 2 or 3 turns) to get the transformation and that seems like a lot of work. Having instant and sorcery spells cost 1 less to cast seems good, but a lot of our spells only cost one colored mana in the first place so they are not helped by Primal Amulet (Chain Lightning, Preordain, Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, etc.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
It's best used for the spot removal when flipped. Killing 4 creatures over 2 turns with just 1 terminate is pure value. Same turn If you can snap or frantic search! If you have riptide laboratory you can avoid kess destruction with the sweeps. It is a bit slow though, I usually slam it down after the board state gets settled a bit to help close out the game. It's definately not a turn 4 play, there's just other stuff we want to do then. It's great around turn 8 with kess on board and a couple of cantrips in grave and hand. Also keep in mind unflipped it makes pyroclasm cost 1 red and anger is only 2 red, but yeah not the best synergy with the cantrips. As for the work we put in to flipping it, it just comes naturally. I only run 8 critters besides kess so if i cant flip it in 1 or 2 turns im gonna lose anyways. Also played it with torment of hailfire for 6 earlier today, then did it from the grave next turn, my play group hated it! Its definately not for everyone though. My playgroup isnt as cutthroat as some are so it's a bit easier to get away with some of the slower value cards.
WUBSente: The Politics and Metaphor of Stones
My Vampire Hunter Kit Innistrad Themed Cube!
Flipping it isn't a problem in my Kess deck at least, plenty of low mana spells I'm playing every turn anyway, the mana cost of the card is higher than I'd like and there are times it sits in my hand for a few turns because other things are more important to do, but its usually worth it in the end.
Overall I recommend the card if you are taking advantage of a lot of 1-2 mana spells.
I also like Call the Skybreaker + Dakmor Salvage for this deck. You spend your draw dredging, but because of kess dredging is somewhat equivalent to drawing anyway. There's only so much 5/5 flying elementals opponents can handle. Dragon Roost can fullfill a similar role, though less stylish.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Planeswalkers
No Mercy and Recoil have been over performing. I have been trying to avoid enchantments as this is a spells matters deck, but No Mercy is just too powerful and valuable not to run. Recoil is a fantastic tempo play that works great later in the game when a player has no cards in their hand. At that point is also functions as a land destruction spell. Consign to Dream also has been incredibly useful, although that may just be a meta thing with me (green is incredibly popular). It's so satisfying to use it in response to a green playing casting a spell like Cultivate.
Lately I've been playing against a lot of tribal decks that go wide (Elves, Goblins, Humans, etc.) so I've been getting extraordinary value out of Pryoclasm and Anger of the Gods. It's fun to see my opponents squirm knowing I can cast it again from my graveyard!
I also wanted to mention that recently spoiled card, Vona's Hunger. It seems promising for Kess, Dissident Mage. It functions as a Diabolic Edict for all opponents and it has an amazing upside during the late game once we have more lands and mana rocks out. I certainly plan to test it and it seems like a potential strong contender for this list.
This deck has become one of my favorite EDH projects I've ever worked on. At this point I'm at about 97% complete with foiling out the deck (I'm holding out for reprints for Preordain and Sleight of Hand while I am also working towards acquiring a foil Scalding Tarn).
I'm still very curious to hear any feedback on the list or general experience you have playing with and against Kess, Dissident Mage.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I like your deck, it seems like you picked a lot of good spells.
How is Windfall? It seems like a really strong card I've been meaning to test. I worry that it fuels other graveyard based decks and increases the likelihood of our opponents drawing into removal from Kess, Dissident Mage or graveyard hate against us.
I'd also be curious to hear your thoughts about Disrupt Decorum?
I like that you are running Keranos, God of Storms. It seems very useful, what are your thoughts on the card and its interactions with Kess, Dissident Mage?
I would recommend cutting Rapid Hybridization (or Pongify) there are better spot removal options available that you aren't running like Dismember and Go For The Throat.
I'm not fond of Darksteel Ingot or mana rocks with a converted mana cost of three, but if I had to run one it would be Chromantic Lantern. Fellwar Stone and Coldsteel Heart are both better than Darksteel Ignot.
I don't like Mizzix's Mastery. If we overload it, we basically use our entire graveyard in one turn, rather than gaining incremental value out of Kess, Dissident Mage. One thing that is great about having her in the command zone is always being able to point to a spell from earlier we can use to answer a problem on the board or give us more card advantage.
As Foretold is too slow, it's really bad if we play it any turn after turn 4 because it takes forever to accumulate counters and by the time it's the late game we shouldn't have mana problems.
Mana Geyser may generate a lot of mana, but other than Torment of Hailfire, I can't figure out what we could do with a bunch of red mana.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
The deck as described in the original thread is fine for these purposes. I play 1 v 1 sometimes and the deck performs very well. You may want to cut Blatant Thievery and maybe lower the curve by removing a few of the large creatures.
@PipeMen,
Harvester of Souls is a great suggestion and is something I'd like to test.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate