I looked at ISBPathfinders Low Mana Curve Buidl and it looked really n
ice. I will just buy from time to time new cards. Most of the creature Cards, from both lists, I already have (I'm playing a fun modern vampire deck). I have to upgrade the instants, enchantments and lands of my deck. I also have a wb aristocrat modern deck - you see I still try a lot of different styles.
@ISBPathfinder
Which list of this threat is your current one?
The one from page 1?
But I think I will buy atleast Purphoros, even if I don't like him in this deck I can use him somewhere else - I think I still have krenko -, and some of the cheaper tutors. Could someone explain Necropotence to me? The only important abilty for this deck is the last one, right? I can't see why I would use the second one in this deck.
You could go with an Enchantress-style of Edgar, I guarantee you that's a unique path and it sounds like you're committed to that.
Does Enchantress-style mean a lot of enchantments? I want to go wide but also tall. I want a lot of tokens, but they have to get some power and some etb effects or triggers would be nice.I don't want to rely too much on tokens and their survival.
Perhaps you only buy one card a month or maybe you buy a bunch. Even moving slowly towards your goal is still accomplishing your goal
The people in my current lgs are saying exact the same - but most people there are playing for years and a lot of them for over a decade, so with vampire bloodlust precon I had no real chance. Like I said - I don't have to win the game, but I want to be part of it and with precon it wasn't possible, atleast at my lgs meta and my group don't like fast commander - 2 hours for one match is not unusual, so I need some cards for late game.
Cathars' Crusade I just find a pain to keep track of and just choose not to run it.
yeah that is really a pain in the *** - sometimes I'm getting a headace (door of destinies, some vampire lords, crusade, planeswalker...) It's like I'm back at school and have to practice mental math.:laugh2:
I also keep my list up to date on the front page.
Purphoros is the only God that is actively great with my strategy. I play the other Gods because they're fun. Goblin War Drums is a more efficient evasion Enchantment than Iroas, God of Victory. You could also go with Cover of Darkness but that's must more expensive than Goblin War Drums. Athreos, God of Passage could just be another card draw spell, I play with it because it's fun and if I get a player's life low enough they keep giving me back Vampires to doom the rest of the table.
Enchantress-style is exactly that: using Enchantments to your path of victory. I only suggest it because it sounds like you want to keep all of these Enchantments and Artifacts.
Instead of building towards late game, just put some light "Stax" elements. Cards that either Tax your opponents or slow them down, such as Blind Obedience: their Creatures coming into play tapped means you can get in without blockers, plus you can Extort players to death. This is also why I suggest amazing draw engines above all else. It means you can keep playing Vampires, swing in and not care about casualties because all you want to do is get in for damage.
Prioritize draw over almost anything else. That's why Necropotence is so powerful. You pay life to draw cards and then you get those cards at the end step. I usually pay life so that my hand ends up being 10 cards. Sure, I'll have to discard three cards and those cards get Exiled but it means I have amazing card quality. So, if I have 4 cards in hand, I would pay 6 to draw 6 and then discard down to 7. Even bad draw is good because it keeps you moving forward: Stromkirk Occultist, Outpost Siege, Dark Tutelage, Minions' Murmurs and Dark Prophecy are all under a dollar, I think. If you're going to splurge, Necropotence is your number one. Next, if you don't mind running non-Vampires Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. It's like he gives you extra draws from your opponents, but more importantly is his Goad ability. That way they're attacking others, so you're free to get in and have every other player kill each other. Smuggler's Copter is also pretty great just for card selection that also dodges most Wraths.
You get your cards Necropotence at the end of your turn, so you can't use them during your second main. I usually fill my hand up to seven with it, have your draw step add to that and usually you can dump it easily enough during your next turn. Only sucks if you run into a wheel effect, but other then that it helps you keep the deck going.
Personally ended up cutting Minions' Murmurs as the deck is already using life points as a heavy resource, together with Champion of Dusk it can be a massive hit. More often than not its been sitting dead in my hand due to that, just haven't had much luck with it hence the cut.
Tev, I saw you are running Dark Prophecy in your list, how has it been performing? The BBB is obviously a lesser aspect but seeing we're already putting Necropotence out its probably less of an issue.
You get your cards Necropotence at the end of your turn, so you can't use them during your second main. I usually fill my hand up to seven with it, have your draw step add to that and usually you can dump it easily enough during your next turn. Only sucks if you run into a wheel effect, but other then that it helps you keep the deck going.
Personally ended up cutting Minions' Murmurs as the deck is already using life points as a heavy resource, together with Champion of Dusk it can be a massive hit. More often than not its been sitting dead in my hand due to that, just haven't had much luck with it hence the cut.
Tev, I saw you are running Dark Prophecy in your list, how has it been performing? The BBB is obviously a lesser aspect but seeing we're already putting Necropotence out its probably less of an issue.
Dark Prophecy does work. Maybe I will axe it soon, I'm not too sure. I didn't have access to great Tutors until a few weeks ago, so I just played a lot of redundancy so I don't stall out. Now that I have Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Vampiric Tutor and Enlightened Tutor, that's like four more copies of Necropotence. I'll start paying attention to see if I don't mind redundancy of other "Necros".
My impression before adding all of the tutors was very good. It pretty much damned my opponents in outnumbering them. They answer one Vampire? I draw a card, maybe it's a Vampire or the next one I get off of my draw step is. I cast that Vampire and suddenly I have two Vampires. You kill those two? They might turn into 4. Let's be honest, we're playing 'white weenie' vs 120 health, we need as much card advantage and pressure available. It also negated the pseudo-card advantage that comes with casting a Wrath. Overall, I think it is worth buying a copy, especially if you cannot afford Necro or just want redundancy due to not having tutors.
It has always bummed me out that I never could find a way to take advantage of the piles of Vampires that end up my in Graveyard. Or that I would need to hold back certain attackers because I needed them alive, like Tymna the Weaver or Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. I stumbled across a suggestion of Alesha and something clicked in my head. She has first strike to protect herself, she gets back anything with power 2 or less which is the majority of my Creatures. She's pseudo-card draw and she gives a lot of my elements protection from dying. For 2 mana, she breaks even with most of my Creatures' CMC, but can cheat out most 3 CMC and a 4 CMC. I cut Patron, despite him being awesome, because I rarely won because of him. I'm not sure how many games I've played where he made me go from losing to winning, he was a winmore. And the games where I was losing, I couldn't afford to pay 6 usually. With this change, my curve flattens further.
With the amount of tutors I have in this deck, I thought 'why not add one more'? Forerunner tutors for any Vampire I need, which I do have a few 'utility' types, such as Bloodline Keeper for an anthem, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for grave hate, Sanctum Seeker for health or Champion of Dusk I need to refuel my hand. Stromkirk Occultist is decent, but I think a Tutor is stronger than Red Draw. Plus he buffs my guys and can come back with Alesha.
With all of the talk regarding non-Creature spells being so threatening that they need to deserve the breathing room they give my opponents made me realize that Vanquisher's Banner doesn't. It's a nice anthem and the card draw is also good. But it isn't like Eldrazi Monument I slam down to give evasion, ignore Wraths AND Anthem my way into the win. When I compared the Banner to Monument, I noticed a lot more flaws to what was a perfectly serviceable card. With the acquisition of a Sword of Feast and Famine, I thought now that's a card that causes fitz for my opponents. The evasion, disruption and protection are all gravy to the untap, which will let my throughput double and throughput is one of the deck's weaknesses.
Tainted Peak has sometimes failed to turn on with all of the nonbasics I have, so I swapped it out with what I feel is a strict upgrade.
Due to the low curve, the Twilight Prophet actually doesn't do its intended role. Sure, it draws a card but I got a lot of effects that let me do that. It's main role is to chunk the table down and give you life, but with the deck's low curve, it actually doesn't do much. If I wanted to ping or two my opponents, I already run Zulaport Cutthroat et al. With it cut, I decided to go all-in further on what makes my Edgar unique: agnostic token spam. The Leonin Warleader gives me Lifelink Cats to keep hitting the table. I still want Life, as I am finding that I am outspending it in comparison to my opponents. With my ability to fetch Necropotence, I have no problems with card draw but I do with life. I hope the Cat spam will rectify this.
Athreos is fun, I do doubt that but his ineffectiveness eventually became frustrating. I am trying out Brutal Hordechief for the reach he gives me, by quickening an opponents' death and padding my life total. There have been a few times where I lost before I could do a lethal swing. The idea is that the extra life the Hordechief drains might give me another opportunity to get in.
I figured that Edgar couldn't really use the Land Tax as badly as Trostani and Marchesa finally had enough draw to axe Wheel of Fortune so that Edgar could use it.
Since you run a slightly more token orientated build of low curve Edgar, I was curious about your opinion on Ancient Stone Idol. I've ordered a copy myself to try out for a bit, as with the deck going wide and swinging in a lot it's easy to cheat in as a big threat.
I do run Anointed Procession in my list and already have a way to recur it, so that probably helps it a bit more, but with the trample it can speed up the clock.
Since you run a slightly more token orientated build of low curve Edgar, I was curious about your opinion on Ancient Stone Idol. I've ordered a copy myself to try out for a bit, as with the deck going wide and swinging in a lot it's easy to cheat in as a big threat.
I do run Anointed Procession in my list and already have a way to recur it, so that probably helps it a bit more, but with the trample it can speed up the clock.
I have no interest in running edge case cards. If I get lucky, I may attack with 6 Creatures and that only pays for half of the Ancient Stone Idol. So far my musings have been whether I can cut more of the draw engines due to the tutors I have that guarantee my Necropotence.
With the dissolution of Damia, Urborg got freed up. I decided to put it in Edgar over Marchesa because Edgar needs perfect mana early; Marchesa can fight into mid/late EDH but Edgar cannot.
With the 4 tutors I run, I can fetch a draw engine so in its stead I have placed more damage confirmations. Minions' Murmurs and Phyrexian Arena get cut over Dark Prophecy because Prophecy can draw me a lot of cards. I've had a few times where I didn't have a board, so I had to struggle to rebuild to get gas out of Minions' Murmurs. Phyrexian Arena's draw is simply too slow and random. With Heirloom Blade, I know I will always be drawing more gas; plus I will throw it onto a token so suddenly my opponents will need to decide to take extra damage or kill one of my cards. Sword of War and Peace is to help me chunk opponents down and allow me to survive crackbacks.
Gemstone Caverns hasn't impressed me; I'm sure its busted in the right opening hand but that hasn't happened. I feel like I should be moving this to a more competitive deck that actually makes aggressive mulligans to make sure there is a play there. In its place is Westvale Abbey, which I think is solid for surviving crackbacks and killing opponents.
If Phyrexian Arena is too slow, and that guarantees a card, then Herald's Horn is definitely too slow. A lot of my Vampries don't have too many colorless pips to really cheat them out on. If I am already reducing costs on my 4/5 drops, then I'm already dong fine. This is part of my move to lean on my tutors to find card draw to go bananas. Throne of the God-Pharaoh should help me kill the table, plus it lets me switch gears. There have been times when I had to work to finish off a player, which gave another time to consolidate and take me out. Hopefully Throne will let me kill two birds with one stone.
Sure, I have a bunch of ways to gain life and keep recurring him, but he won't actually die that often once my opponents get savvy. Coming into play tapped has also mattered some of the time, if that wasn't the case he might be a good crackback blocker but it isn't. Instead, I'm putting in Bloodsworn because it has evasion, gives various Vampire Haste and the can't block is pretty much the same clause as Oathsworn's ETBT. The one toughness also means Bloodsworn can be Skullclamped on demand.
Purphoros is the only God that is actively great with my strategy. I play the other Gods because they're fun. Goblin War Drums is a more efficient evasion Enchantment than Iroas, God of Victory. You could also go with Cover of Darkness but that's must more expensive than Goblin War Drums. Athreos, God of Passage could just be another card draw spell, I play with it because it's fun and if I get a player's life low enough they keep giving me back Vampires to doom the rest of the table.
Enchantress-style is exactly that: using Enchantments to your path of victory. I only suggest it because it sounds like you want to keep all of these Enchantments and Artifacts.
Instead of building towards late game, just put some light "Stax" elements. Cards that either Tax your opponents or slow them down, such as Blind Obedience: their Creatures coming into play tapped means you can get in without blockers, plus you can Extort players to death. This is also why I suggest amazing draw engines above all else. It means you can keep playing Vampires, swing in and not care about casualties because all you want to do is get in for damage.
Prioritize draw over almost anything else. That's why Necropotence is so powerful. You pay life to draw cards and then you get those cards at the end step. I usually pay life so that my hand ends up being 10 cards. Sure, I'll have to discard three cards and those cards get Exiled but it means I have amazing card quality. So, if I have 4 cards in hand, I would pay 6 to draw 6 and then discard down to 7. Even bad draw is good because it keeps you moving forward: Stromkirk Occultist, Outpost Siege, Dark Tutelage, Minions' Murmurs and Dark Prophecy are all under a dollar, I think. If you're going to splurge, Necropotence is your number one. Next, if you don't mind running non-Vampires Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. It's like he gives you extra draws from your opponents, but more importantly is his Goad ability. That way they're attacking others, so you're free to get in and have every other player kill each other. Smuggler's Copter is also pretty great just for card selection that also dodges most Wraths.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Personally ended up cutting Minions' Murmurs as the deck is already using life points as a heavy resource, together with Champion of Dusk it can be a massive hit. More often than not its been sitting dead in my hand due to that, just haven't had much luck with it hence the cut.
Tev, I saw you are running Dark Prophecy in your list, how has it been performing? The BBB is obviously a lesser aspect but seeing we're already putting Necropotence out its probably less of an issue.
My impression before adding all of the tutors was very good. It pretty much damned my opponents in outnumbering them. They answer one Vampire? I draw a card, maybe it's a Vampire or the next one I get off of my draw step is. I cast that Vampire and suddenly I have two Vampires. You kill those two? They might turn into 4. Let's be honest, we're playing 'white weenie' vs 120 health, we need as much card advantage and pressure available. It also negated the pseudo-card advantage that comes with casting a Wrath. Overall, I think it is worth buying a copy, especially if you cannot afford Necro or just want redundancy due to not having tutors.
Some changes:
1 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
1 Forerunner of the Legion
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Luxury Suite
1 Patron of the Vein
1 Stromkirk Occultist
1 Vanquisher's Banner
1 Tainted Peak
With the amount of tutors I have in this deck, I thought 'why not add one more'? Forerunner tutors for any Vampire I need, which I do have a few 'utility' types, such as Bloodline Keeper for an anthem, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for grave hate, Sanctum Seeker for health or Champion of Dusk I need to refuel my hand. Stromkirk Occultist is decent, but I think a Tutor is stronger than Red Draw. Plus he buffs my guys and can come back with Alesha.
With all of the talk regarding non-Creature spells being so threatening that they need to deserve the breathing room they give my opponents made me realize that Vanquisher's Banner doesn't. It's a nice anthem and the card draw is also good. But it isn't like Eldrazi Monument I slam down to give evasion, ignore Wraths AND Anthem my way into the win. When I compared the Banner to Monument, I noticed a lot more flaws to what was a perfectly serviceable card. With the acquisition of a Sword of Feast and Famine, I thought now that's a card that causes fitz for my opponents. The evasion, disruption and protection are all gravy to the untap, which will let my throughput double and throughput is one of the deck's weaknesses.
Tainted Peak has sometimes failed to turn on with all of the nonbasics I have, so I swapped it out with what I feel is a strict upgrade.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Leonin Warleader
1 Twilight Prophet
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Brutal Hordechief
1 Athreos, God of Passage
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Land Tax
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I do run Anointed Procession in my list and already have a way to recur it, so that probably helps it a bit more, but with the trample it can speed up the clock.
Mana upgrade:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Heirloom Blade
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Minions' Murmurs
1 Gemstone Caverns
Gemstone Caverns hasn't impressed me; I'm sure its busted in the right opening hand but that hasn't happened. I feel like I should be moving this to a more competitive deck that actually makes aggressive mulligans to make sure there is a play there. In its place is Westvale Abbey, which I think is solid for surviving crackbacks and killing opponents.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
1 Herald's Horn
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Olivia's Bloodsworn
1 Oathsworn Vampire
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Crush Contraband
1 Return to Dust
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Divine Visitation
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Sword of War and Peace
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Judith, the Scourge Diva
1 Brutal Hordechief
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs