Font of Agonies is also an interesting card to consider, cheap to cast and with the deck already wanting to deploy Necropotence quickly it will be easy to rack up counters for it. Other then that only Judith and Vindictive Vampire are cards I might test out in my Edgar deck.
I'm thinking of building this deck, but I'm curious as to how successful the deck is! I'm looking for something fun and tribally, and this seems to fit the bill!
I heard you said that this is distinctly NOT an aggro-style deck. How would you describe the deck's playstyle?
I'm thinking of building this deck, but I'm curious as to how successful the deck is! I'm looking for something fun and tribally, and this seems to fit the bill!
I heard you said that this is distinctly NOT an aggro-style deck. How would you describe the deck's playstyle?
I would generally consider it to be a tempo deck rather than aggro. The deck occasionally can just curve out and maybe nobody has a good answer for you but in all reality it lives and dies with finding card draw. I did end up playing two games with it last week and in the first one I ended up with some poor opening hands and while it was aggressive I curved out to three lands very slowly and ate a wrath with no draw in sight and died. The second game I got some draw live and it was great and I killed my opponents on like turn 5.
Regardless of how good your opening hand is, if someone curves a wrath you will die unless you can get some draw online. I wouldn't say its not an aggro deck but if I was asked how to describe it I would generally say tempo rather than aggro. I generally classify it as that because of how it can repeatedly wheel and play another hand of cards.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I concur. Most wrath spells cost 4 or greater. So if you have the tempo advantage, dropping Vindictive Vampire before a player can cast a wrath could potentially be a great deterrent against it or at least force them to yolo and gung-ho it and cast the wrath anyways, taking the damage in order to wipe your board. It might be more expensive compared to the rest of the vamps in the deck but at least it pulls its weight and is a vampire.
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saw judith, the scourge diva and think that she may be a nice fit here, right? anthem effect
and a pseudo goblin bombardement.
I think Judith is fine. The problem is I wouldn't want to cut a vampire to include her and that is where a lot of really sweet nonvampires kind of fall with me. It is possible that maybe she could be better than some of our worse evasion cards.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Really cool thread and a really cool deck. I've come to a very similar build, although much more budgety and with way fewer tutors. Just wanted to mention some budget replacements/options that aren't in your build (even though most have been mentioned earlier in the thread), as well as bring up a few cards that seem like the weak points of the deck from my perspective.
Really wanna highlight Springleaf Drum in particular. This card has just been stellar as an ultra-efficient ramp option. Overperforms and plays much better than it looks. Think of it as a colorless Bird of Paradise with haste, cuz that's exactly how it plays in this deck. It generally taps down a token with summoning sickness and has almost zero drawbacks for Edgar decks. Easily as good as Legion's Landing (if not better than) if you're playing that as ramp.
Metallic Mimic and Serra Ascendant seem great if played immediately. They seem like terrible cards when drawn at any other stage of the game though. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze on those two. Too high of variance in their performance. Serra Ascendant reminds me of Yahenni, Undying Partisan in that I've seen the card dominate games before, but it just seems too inconsistent in this deck. I think Shared Triumph is generally better than Metallic Mimic for this deck.
Midnight Reaper seems better than Zulaport Cutthroat to me, even though it doesn't care about tokens. It just seems like there are better cards to punish and get value from dying creatures.
Also surprised that you're not including Eldrazi Monument and Coat of Arms, even though they are 5 CMC and I read your previous points. Coat of Arms is tied with Shared Animosity for the best finisher in the deck for me, but it sounds like they've been mediocre for you. You also seem to have a more tribal meta than I do. Cards like Harsh Mercy and Coat of Arms are auto-includes for me due to my meta having few tribal decks.
Also wanna mention Carnival of Souls as an interesting option for a more combo/suicidal build. That kind of build would really prefer black vampires that cost 2 or less over any other kind. 1 drops actually gain you mana and 2 drops are free. Might also want a little bit of life gain to offset the self burn, and a ton of card draw. Combine with Oketra's monument, Skullclamp, Mentor of the Meek, etc. Maybe even Bygone Bishop if you prioritize 1 drops.
Really wanna highlight Springleaf Drum in particular. This card has just been stellar as an ultra-efficient ramp option. Overperforms and plays much better than it looks. Think of it as a colorless Bird of Paradise with haste, cuz that's exactly how it plays in this deck. It generally taps down a token with summoning sickness and has almost zero drawbacks for Edgar decks. Easily as good as Legion's Landing (if not better than) if you're playing that as ramp.
That's some spicy technology there. If I still had my Edgar deck I would slam that in.
One piece of budget draw that I didn't see you mention was Minions' Murmurs. Any particular reason why?
Also wanna mention Carnival of Souls as an interesting option for a more combo/suicidal build. That kind of build would really prefer black vampires that cost 2 or less over any other kind. 1 drops actually gain you mana and 2 drops are free. Might also want a little bit of life gain to offset the self burn, and a ton of card draw. Combine with Oketra's monument, Skullclamp, Mentor of the Meek, etc. Maybe even Bygone Bishop if you prioritize 1 drops.
That's actually a pretty good card to consider. I wouldn't use it to justify adding a lot of 2-drops, though. It would just be good to be able to cast a bunch of B-costed vampires for free especially after casting something like Scapegoat.
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Have you seen the War of the Spark spoilers?
Another vampire aristocrat and a legendary artifact that i think it could break the game in this deck.
What do you think?
Have you seen the War of the Spark spoilers?
Another vampire aristocrat and a legendary artifact that i think it could break the game in this deck.
What do you think?
Holy crap Cruel Celebrant is going to ruin people. That is absolutely an automatic going to make my list. I still have some issues with Vindictive Vampire being that it is a 4 drop I haven't really made up my mind on it yet but a two drop that does like literally all of those same things is absolutely going to make it for me.
How are these cards only a set apart and yet this one is sooooooooooooo much stronger?
Bolas's Citadel - Maybe, I am still trying to figure out my thoughts on it. The fact that we can use life instead of mana to cast them is really nice but we will get stuck on lands. I probably need to test it out. Its probably better than Null Profusion in that we pay life instead of mana to cast them but I still have some aversion to 6 mana spells due to how long it can sometimes take to get to cast them. If I were to cast it and see a land on top I would be kinda super pissed.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well, the first land you can just play it. The problem it would be if you found another land right after the first. In that case if we have another draw engine like necropotence or skullclamp, we cant just draw that land and keep going or maybe it was a fetch and we just crack it and shuffle.
Yeah... six mana is a lot, but i can't help to think that is kind of an Ad Nauseam that lets you play things for free. I'm going to test it out, how many cards can i play before i get stuck on lands and how often it happens.
I still think Vindictive Vampire may be worth it because it’s like a vampire lord. Between combat, board wipes, goblin bombardment, skullclamp, Indulgent Aristocrat, etc. our creatures are always dying and it hits all opponents.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I can't remember if I have ever posted in here, but I have this deck in paper and play it almost weekly. One of my stronger decks (Outside of my cEDH decks). Super fun, but can get blown out, as you know. I just wanted to pop in and thank you for keeping it updated.
I took your list before your Obelisk of Urd inclusion. I will have to swap out Prophet and try it. Only other change I have is I added a Boros Charm over Vampire Interloper (not sure if this is even the right cut).
With that being said. I am slowly SLOWLY pimping this deck to being foil (when possible) German. I am currently 27/100 German! That's one reason I added the Boros Charm, snagged a perfect German foil copy. Haha! Also sad because my Twilight Prophet was German, but oh wellz. Finding some of these cards are impossible (or dumb expensive. Foil Cavern went on Ebay recently for hundreds...)
Again, thanks for the discussion on here. Hype for Cruel Celebrant!
Also, any input on if Interloper was a correct cut? List is same outside of that and Twilight (for now).
I can't remember if I have ever posted in here, but I have this deck in paper and play it almost weekly. One of my stronger decks (Outside of my cEDH decks). Super fun, but can get blown out, as you know. I just wanted to pop in and thank you for keeping it updated.
I took your list before your Obelisk of Urd inclusion. I will have to swap out Prophet and try it. Only other change I have is I added a Boros Charm over Vampire Interloper (not sure if this is even the right cut).
With that being said. I am slowly SLOWLY pimping this deck to being foil (when possible) German. I am currently 27/100 German! That's one reason I added the Boros Charm, snagged a perfect German foil copy. Haha! Also sad because my Twilight Prophet was German, but oh wellz. Finding some of these cards are impossible (or dumb expensive. Foil Cavern went on Ebay recently for hundreds...)
Again, thanks for the discussion on here. Hype for Cruel Celebrant!
Also, any input on if Interloper was a correct cut? List is same outside of that and Twilight (for now).
Welcome and I am glad that I was able to be of use.
I have actually been questioning Cover of Darkness a bit of late and contemplating swapping that out for something else. I really don't play my own list all that much anymore as its often a bit overwhelming for my meta lol. I still really like the list but I tend to pull it out more if I am losing a lot in a night rather than just naturally weaving it into my deck play rotation. I have kind of been contemplating pulling out Cover of Darkness for Judith, the Scourge Diva but I am not 100% sold on it. Its been one of those thoughts that has just kind of been kicking around in the maybe column for me but I don't think its really sold either way for me yet. I really would need to play this deck a bit more often to be sold on making that change.
I also think that Metallic Mimic and Oathsworn Vampire have been underperforming for me. I would suggest possibly cutting one of those over the Interloper. Oathsworn for example has been underperforming because its really not that aggressive its more of a sticky body but we also aren't all that reliably having lifegain that he is always going to be accessible. He has no evasion or other added value so assuming you could curve him or any other 2 drop vampire he kind of always gets beat out in my mind. Metallic Mimic is cool but even assuming you curve it (where its at its best) you get less bodies in play, its fragile itself, and you give up some speed in some ways playing it on curve. Playing it on curve is like the optimal too so it can just get worse from there which I am not big on.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
It's been awhile since I've commented. I've re-sleeved this deck preparing for the new cards to test. ISB, is the OP the current version? And what cards are you currently considering dropping? I'll work on some of your suggestions for testing and see how it pans out.
Hey,
I'm thinking of buying this deck, but I want to exclude the expensive cards like the moxes and crypt, imperial seal, wheel of fate and duals.
Do you have some suggestions what to put in for it?
It's been awhile since I've commented. I've re-sleeved this deck preparing for the new cards to test. ISB, is the OP the current version? And what cards are you currently considering dropping? I'll work on some of your suggestions for testing and see how it pans out.
OP is up to date with what I run still. My current cut suggestions are Cover of Darkness, Metallic Mimic, and Oathsworn Vampire. I would still avoid adding too many higher cmc cards for them but those are my current cut considerations.
Hey,
I'm thinking of buying this deck, but I want to exclude the expensive cards like the moxes and crypt, imperial seal, wheel of fate and duals.
Do you have some suggestions what to put in for it?
More cheap vampires and potentially cheap draw. If you need to fill cards and can't find other things resort to draw like Sign In Blood or possibly some cheap removal. I think keeping it consistent with more cheap drops and draw is the way I would go though. You won't be quite as explosive but it really cuts a lot of the cost out.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
First, thank you for all of the work that you've put into this deck/thread.
I haven't been able to read through all 13 pages, yet. Hopefully, I'm not about to ask about cards that you've already discussed.
Earlier in the thread, you were talking about wanting decent secondary equipment targets. I'm curious what you think of Explorer's Scope. Early game it can help ramp (and let you plan on your next draw if it's not a land), and late game it can help you draw fewer lands. An obvious card that I'll search your thread for is Blade of the Bloodchief since it can turn any of your creatures into threats. Another (lesser) option could be Infiltration Lens. Either you draw cards or the creature is unblockable.
I think that Vanquisher's Banner does a lot too, as both an anthem and card draw. (I did see you address this one, but you just said you were thinking about it.)
Oversold Cemetery works as card advantage pretty quickly. There is the condition, but it does not take long to have four creatures in the graveyard. Plus, you don't have to pay to activate it. So basically, each turn you get your best creature back.
Hey,
I'm thinking of buying this deck, but I want to exclude the expensive cards like the moxes and crypt, imperial seal, wheel of fate and duals.
Do you have some suggestions what to put in for it?
I’m not ISB, but I’ve been playing this deck and I don’t have any of those crazy expensive cards. These are cards that aren’t in ISB’s list that have worked out well for me:
First, thank you for all of the work that you've put into this deck/thread.
I haven't been able to read through all 13 pages, yet. Hopefully, I'm not about to ask about cards that you've already discussed.
Earlier in the thread, you were talking about wanting decent secondary equipment targets. I'm curious what you think of Explorer's Scope. Early game it can help ramp (and let you plan on your next draw if it's not a land), and late game it can help you draw fewer lands. An obvious card that I'll search your thread for is Blade of the Bloodchief since it can turn any of your creatures into threats. Another (lesser) option could be Infiltration Lens. Either you draw cards or the creature is unblockable.
I think that Vanquisher's Banner does a lot too, as both an anthem and card draw. (I did see you address this one, but you just said you were thinking about it.)
Oversold Cemetery works as card advantage pretty quickly. There is the condition, but it does not take long to have four creatures in the graveyard. Plus, you don't have to pay to activate it. So basically, each turn you get your best creature back.
On the first few pages I was playing with a lot more of "the standalone better vamps" rather than storming with cheap guys. The early comments might seem odd in that I had not transitioned to anything looking like this build at that time.
My overall advice would be to keep the curve low, keep the vamp count high, and keep drawing. In a lot of cases with the tutors my objective is usually getting really busted draw so its possible that you want to focus primarily on more draw if cutting those. I would say its also relevant to consider some alternate tutors like Steelshaper's Gift to tutor Skullclamp or Gamble which has some drawback but might still get you a necropotence. If you decide to go into equipment tutors I would suggest also bringing the count up a little with some other equipment suggestions possibly being Sword of the Animist, Umezawa's Jitte, Heirloom Blade, or Konda's Banner. I ultimately went away from equipment because what I really wanted to do in most every situation was just tutor for Necropotence.
Explorer's Scope - It could be good but it still leaves a lot of uncertainty and for double the mana you could just knowingly always hit the land and fix at the same time with Sword of the Animist. I usually think that animist is worth the difference in mana over the scope. The only real difference would be if you opening hand it and even then if you opening hand the scope you likely are only going to hit 1/3 of the time which in my mind says its unlikely to really ramp you much faster than animist.
Blade of the Bloodchief - given we are a go wide deck, it could be useful if and when someone is killing some of our creatures by means of blocking but the fear I usually have when playing this deck is sweepers and not drawing into draw. Its better to focus more on making the mass of dudes better rather than improving one which is why I don't run much equipment myself.
Reconnaissance vs Dolmen Gate each have their advantages but keep in mind that Recon gives mass vigilance in that you can untap all of your creatures after they do damage as well. I haven't actually played with Dolmen Gate but it would probably be sweet vs a tokens deck. I might have to pick up a copy and try it out but I think they are about equal in most cases with the gate having a bit of an advantage vs tokens. Maybe I will pick up a copy and try it out. I don't think I would cut recon myself though but I could see it maybe being a thing alongside it. Recon has done some good work for me so far.
Vanquisher's Banner - my issue with the card is that its 5 mana and it does very little immediately. In a deck like this if I pay 5 mana for something I don't think I will have much luck playing several vamps the same turn. That leaves it kind of high and dry for opponents to use removal on it while I wait to untap. I just don't feel it has very good immediate value is the reason I don't like it as much here. Bolas's Citadel and Liliana, Dreadhorde General come out very soon and I think I like both of them over the banner because of how much faster they pick up their value. With this deck I am often trying to avoid having a lot of 4+ mana cards in it but when I do add them I want there to be a lot of immediate impact from them and my issue with Vanquisher's Banner is the somewhat high cost for this deck and low immediate value.
Oversold Cemetery - its very reactive and can be slow to spin up. If you see it in your opening hand it might literally just be a blank until you have a bunch of creatures die. It is value over time but my question is kind of along the lines of why not just play Phyrexian Arena, a card that you know will draw you a card every turn with no strings attached. What if someone has graveyard hate or what if you run out of gas and just don't have a lot of power in play yet. The card isn't good enough fast enough.
I’m not ISB, but I’ve been playing this deck and I don’t have any of those crazy expensive cards. These are cards that aren’t in ISB’s list that have worked out well for me:
This is my War of the Spark review for Edgar. I tried to highlight most every rare / mythic option as well as address other potentially good or useful cards in the common / uncommon. I did this mostly to give my thoughts across the set for any interested in reading my thoughts on the set as a whole. There are technically a few spoils yet to come out at this point in time and if one of them is interesting or good I will add it into this review afterwards. I bolded the card reviews that I think are things I would actually put some consideration into.
BLACK
Bolas's Citadel Six mana card advantage effects are always a little sketchy but given that this one lets us cast things using our life total I think its a lot stronger. It means we can play it and potentially play several cards in the same turn without needing more mana to do so. The activated ability on it is also VERY achievable for this deck and a great response to a wrath effect. Really my only reservation being that its another 6 mana effect and figuring out what would go out for it to go in for testing. The BBB casting cost could be a bit rough for those on a budget landbases but I think its doable at 6 mana still.
Command the Dreadhorde its a very reactive six mana spell. Not my cup of tea for this deck.
The Elderspell its too situational for commander if you ask me. We are also an aggro deck so if you can't attack walkers to death you probably already lost anyways.
Finale of Eternity its an interesting card but a little too mana intensive and reactive.
God-Eternal Bontu I can't help but to compare him to Krav, the Unredeemed. The god can sac any permenant including lands which is interesting but I don't find that really an improvement over Krav to be honest.
Liliana, Dreadhorde GeneralBarter in Blood is a type of card that heavily favors token style of swarm decks as removal. Liliana represents having Barter in Blood + draw 2 cards immediately and leaving further draw options in play and the ability to make tokens for defense and draw if she goes unanswered. Honestly, I think she has a lot of potential with this type of build and she has a lot going for her. The only real drawback being she is a slow six mana drop but I think there is a lot of potential here. I could see her competing with Champion of Dusk for a slot given I have actually seen several times where the Champion is bad due to my overall creature count and how much it would do to my life total immediately. In some ways Liliana gives some power to attackers being chump blocked and or having chump blockers as well. She also can spread the card draw out over more than one turn which is appealing considering 5-6 mana draw options often leave us without much mana left.
Massacre Girl well, she would murder this deck so probably don't go here.
Spark Harvest Its a cool flavorful removal that could work here but I think I would still rather have other removal like Swords to Plowshares over it. Its a cool card but I don't think its quite there being a sorcery and needing to sac a creature or pay 4.
Vampire Opportunist Its a 2 mana vamp which is fine. I just don't think it really does anything for us beyond that. The activated ability for it seems like the sort of thing you dump excess Cabal Coffers mana to but even then it seems like a weak card for commander for any deck running Coffers.
RED
Chandra, Fire Artisan I don't think she transitions to commander well. The things she does seems better suited for 20 life 1v1s.
Finale of Glory costly sorcery speed non vampire token maker. Moving on.
Gideon Blackblade cool walker but he doesn't transition from 60 card 1v1 well.
God-Eternal Oketra So.... it is 5 mana and it does not do anything with vampires but it fits our build very well in that we cast a lot of cheap creatures. He could in that sense make a LOT of 4/4 tokens very quickly. I don't think he is a shoe in by any means though as there is a LOT of competition for this deck in the 4+ mana slot but I think its relevant to point out that he has some good synergy with the basics of what this deck does even though he isn't a vamp and makes non vamps.
Ignite the Beacon costly and slow not to mention we don't really run much for walkers.
Parhelion II expensive, slow, and almost no synergy with what we are doing.
Ravnica at War cool but slow and very narrow. Its not versatile and its reactive. We want our reactions to be very flexible or help our deck out a lot.
Single Combat this card is exactly what we do NOT want to see.
Topple the Statue this is a good bit of removal. Still though its not like we were running Smash. This sort of effect fits a lot better into a midrange / control / draw go type of deck rather than our proactive build. This is a VERY good card, but its not what we want for this kind of build.
Gideon, the Oathsworn technically his static ability is the kind of thing we want for this deck but he has way too much direct competition with our commander who does..... like literally the same thing for us at the same mana.
Angrath's Rampage its not bad and the versatility is kind of there for this card. Still though, edicts can be kind of awkward still which is what holds me back from pulling the trigger here. I think I would still rather have a known artifact destroy than an artifact edict. If it could do multiple of the modes rather than choose one I think I would test it but that might be a bit strong elsewhere lol.
Cruel Celebrant this is exactly what we want to see. I will take any and all versions that look like this for this mana cost. This is a slam dunk every time creature.
Despark interesting removal but I think it lacks the versatility I need.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord He is.... ok. Honestly though I can't see a time I would ever want him over
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or even Sorin, Solemn Visitor. The + effect on the new Sorin is just not very good and while I don't hate the -X ability on him, we don't get the on cast vampire token which is really unfortunate. I just don't see this new Sorin being that desirable here.
God-Pharaoh's Statue Its a good effect, its just too much mana for us to get there for. This effect could be painful to be across from but luckily its kind of slow to set up. If someone had some god ramp hand into this it would be VERY bad for us though.
Karn, the Great Creator He seems kind of fragile for commander. I think his static ability is good but you need to land and keep him alive for that to matter. I think he would be a challenge to get good use out of in commander.
Blast Zone I think that colorless land has an uphill battle for this deck. Beyond that I think that essentially all of these utility lands are things that this deck doesn't care about enough to run colorless lands for.
Ok, thats a lot to take in. I think we have a number of cards worth consideration. Right now, I am going to pull the trigger on a few of these but I am also going to pass on a few of them in part because I don't know where I would cut to include them. Bolas's Citadel looks very playable but for right now I will be including Liliana, Dreadhorde General over it due to the versatility of being an immediate board impact as well as being card draw. The Citadel can still have immediate impact but I just like having removal and draw packed together enough that I want to test her out over the citadel as of right now. God-Eternal Oketra is cool too but I won't be pulling the trigger for that either given the high competition for that kind of slot.
DECK CHANGES:
Metallic Mimic -> Cruel Celebrant the Mimic just hasn't been working out for me. Its been on my short list for a while now. I am opting to keep Oathsworn Vampire in for now because this change has a slight benefit for Oathsworn in that it gives me more lifegain effects.
Champion of Dusk -> Liliana, Dreadhorde General I might not have been very vocal about some of my concerns with Champion of Dusk but there are a number of issues with him that usually stem from the fact that if you are drawing a bunch of cards there is like a sweet spot you kind of want to be at. Paying 5 mana, losing a bunch of life, and then discarding down to 7 has always been a bit tough for me. There is a breaking point where you have too many vampires and he will do too much damage to you and you really never need to draw more than 4-8 cards because its usually followed up by mass discarding but you also want to empty your hand before you play him which really lead me to have a few awkward situations with him where he was worse draw than most of the other draw in my deck. What I like about trading him out for Liliana is that she gives me some level of control that is very friendly towards a token deck like ours and she also gives us some great card draw and possibly evasion due to the draw we would otherwise get.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm thinking of building this deck, but I'm curious as to how successful the deck is! I'm looking for something fun and tribally, and this seems to fit the bill!
I heard you said that this is distinctly NOT an aggro-style deck. How would you describe the deck's playstyle?
I would generally consider it to be a tempo deck rather than aggro. The deck occasionally can just curve out and maybe nobody has a good answer for you but in all reality it lives and dies with finding card draw. I did end up playing two games with it last week and in the first one I ended up with some poor opening hands and while it was aggressive I curved out to three lands very slowly and ate a wrath with no draw in sight and died. The second game I got some draw live and it was great and I killed my opponents on like turn 5.
Regardless of how good your opening hand is, if someone curves a wrath you will die unless you can get some draw online. I wouldn't say its not an aggro deck but if I was asked how to describe it I would generally say tempo rather than aggro. I generally classify it as that because of how it can repeatedly wheel and play another hand of cards.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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and a pseudo goblin bombardement.
I think Judith is fine. The problem is I wouldn't want to cut a vampire to include her and that is where a lot of really sweet nonvampires kind of fall with me. It is possible that maybe she could be better than some of our worse evasion cards.
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[Modern] Allies
Budget:
For card draw:
Promise of Power, Necrologia, Mask of Memory, Vanquisher's Banner, Ruin Raider
Midnight Reaper, Minions' Murmurs, Mentor of the Meek, Dark Prophecy
For Tutors:
Steelshaper's Gift, Forerunner of the Legion
For Ramp:
Springleaf Drum, Paradise Mantle
Really wanna highlight Springleaf Drum in particular. This card has just been stellar as an ultra-efficient ramp option. Overperforms and plays much better than it looks. Think of it as a colorless Bird of Paradise with haste, cuz that's exactly how it plays in this deck. It generally taps down a token with summoning sickness and has almost zero drawbacks for Edgar decks. Easily as good as Legion's Landing (if not better than) if you're playing that as ramp.
As far as cards that seem a bit iffy:
Serra Ascendant
Metallic Mimic
Zulaport Cutthroat
Metallic Mimic and Serra Ascendant seem great if played immediately. They seem like terrible cards when drawn at any other stage of the game though. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze on those two. Too high of variance in their performance. Serra Ascendant reminds me of Yahenni, Undying Partisan in that I've seen the card dominate games before, but it just seems too inconsistent in this deck. I think Shared Triumph is generally better than Metallic Mimic for this deck.
Midnight Reaper seems better than Zulaport Cutthroat to me, even though it doesn't care about tokens. It just seems like there are better cards to punish and get value from dying creatures.
Also surprised that you're not including Eldrazi Monument and Coat of Arms, even though they are 5 CMC and I read your previous points. Coat of Arms is tied with Shared Animosity for the best finisher in the deck for me, but it sounds like they've been mediocre for you. You also seem to have a more tribal meta than I do. Cards like Harsh Mercy and Coat of Arms are auto-includes for me due to my meta having few tribal decks.
One piece of budget draw that I didn't see you mention was Minions' Murmurs. Any particular reason why?
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That's actually a pretty good card to consider. I wouldn't use it to justify adding a lot of 2-drops, though. It would just be good to be able to cast a bunch of B-costed vampires for free especially after casting something like Scapegoat.
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None at all. Just slipped my mind. Also forgot to mention Mentor of the Meek for no reason.
Another vampire aristocrat and a legendary artifact that i think it could break the game in this deck.
What do you think?
Holy crap Cruel Celebrant is going to ruin people. That is absolutely an automatic going to make my list. I still have some issues with Vindictive Vampire being that it is a 4 drop I haven't really made up my mind on it yet but a two drop that does like literally all of those same things is absolutely going to make it for me.
How are these cards only a set apart and yet this one is sooooooooooooo much stronger?
Bolas's Citadel - Maybe, I am still trying to figure out my thoughts on it. The fact that we can use life instead of mana to cast them is really nice but we will get stuck on lands. I probably need to test it out. Its probably better than Null Profusion in that we pay life instead of mana to cast them but I still have some aversion to 6 mana spells due to how long it can sometimes take to get to cast them. If I were to cast it and see a land on top I would be kinda super pissed.
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[Modern] Allies
Yeah... six mana is a lot, but i can't help to think that is kind of an Ad Nauseam that lets you play things for free. I'm going to test it out, how many cards can i play before i get stuck on lands and how often it happens.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I took your list before your Obelisk of Urd inclusion. I will have to swap out Prophet and try it. Only other change I have is I added a Boros Charm over Vampire Interloper (not sure if this is even the right cut).
With that being said. I am slowly SLOWLY pimping this deck to being foil (when possible) German. I am currently 27/100 German! That's one reason I added the Boros Charm, snagged a perfect German foil copy. Haha! Also sad because my Twilight Prophet was German, but oh wellz. Finding some of these cards are impossible (or dumb expensive. Foil Cavern went on Ebay recently for hundreds...)
Again, thanks for the discussion on here. Hype for Cruel Celebrant!
Also, any input on if Interloper was a correct cut? List is same outside of that and Twilight (for now).
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Welcome and I am glad that I was able to be of use.
I have actually been questioning Cover of Darkness a bit of late and contemplating swapping that out for something else. I really don't play my own list all that much anymore as its often a bit overwhelming for my meta lol. I still really like the list but I tend to pull it out more if I am losing a lot in a night rather than just naturally weaving it into my deck play rotation. I have kind of been contemplating pulling out Cover of Darkness for Judith, the Scourge Diva but I am not 100% sold on it. Its been one of those thoughts that has just kind of been kicking around in the maybe column for me but I don't think its really sold either way for me yet. I really would need to play this deck a bit more often to be sold on making that change.
I also think that Metallic Mimic and Oathsworn Vampire have been underperforming for me. I would suggest possibly cutting one of those over the Interloper. Oathsworn for example has been underperforming because its really not that aggressive its more of a sticky body but we also aren't all that reliably having lifegain that he is always going to be accessible. He has no evasion or other added value so assuming you could curve him or any other 2 drop vampire he kind of always gets beat out in my mind. Metallic Mimic is cool but even assuming you curve it (where its at its best) you get less bodies in play, its fragile itself, and you give up some speed in some ways playing it on curve. Playing it on curve is like the optimal too so it can just get worse from there which I am not big on.
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[Modern] Allies
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I'm thinking of buying this deck, but I want to exclude the expensive cards like the moxes and crypt, imperial seal, wheel of fate and duals.
Do you have some suggestions what to put in for it?
OP is up to date with what I run still. My current cut suggestions are Cover of Darkness, Metallic Mimic, and Oathsworn Vampire. I would still avoid adding too many higher cmc cards for them but those are my current cut considerations.
More cheap vampires and potentially cheap draw. If you need to fill cards and can't find other things resort to draw like Sign In Blood or possibly some cheap removal. I think keeping it consistent with more cheap drops and draw is the way I would go though. You won't be quite as explosive but it really cuts a lot of the cost out.
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[Modern] Allies
First, thank you for all of the work that you've put into this deck/thread.
I haven't been able to read through all 13 pages, yet. Hopefully, I'm not about to ask about cards that you've already discussed.
Earlier in the thread, you were talking about wanting decent secondary equipment targets. I'm curious what you think of Explorer's Scope. Early game it can help ramp (and let you plan on your next draw if it's not a land), and late game it can help you draw fewer lands. An obvious card that I'll search your thread for is Blade of the Bloodchief since it can turn any of your creatures into threats. Another (lesser) option could be Infiltration Lens. Either you draw cards or the creature is unblockable.
I haven't seen anything so far about Dolmen Gate. This seems as good or better than Reconnaissance.
I think that Vanquisher's Banner does a lot too, as both an anthem and card draw. (I did see you address this one, but you just said you were thinking about it.)
Oversold Cemetery works as card advantage pretty quickly. There is the condition, but it does not take long to have four creatures in the graveyard. Plus, you don't have to pay to activate it. So basically, each turn you get your best creature back.
I’m not ISB, but I’ve been playing this deck and I don’t have any of those crazy expensive cards. These are cards that aren’t in ISB’s list that have worked out well for me:
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
On the first few pages I was playing with a lot more of "the standalone better vamps" rather than storming with cheap guys. The early comments might seem odd in that I had not transitioned to anything looking like this build at that time.
My overall advice would be to keep the curve low, keep the vamp count high, and keep drawing. In a lot of cases with the tutors my objective is usually getting really busted draw so its possible that you want to focus primarily on more draw if cutting those. I would say its also relevant to consider some alternate tutors like Steelshaper's Gift to tutor Skullclamp or Gamble which has some drawback but might still get you a necropotence. If you decide to go into equipment tutors I would suggest also bringing the count up a little with some other equipment suggestions possibly being Sword of the Animist, Umezawa's Jitte, Heirloom Blade, or Konda's Banner. I ultimately went away from equipment because what I really wanted to do in most every situation was just tutor for Necropotence.
Explorer's Scope - It could be good but it still leaves a lot of uncertainty and for double the mana you could just knowingly always hit the land and fix at the same time with Sword of the Animist. I usually think that animist is worth the difference in mana over the scope. The only real difference would be if you opening hand it and even then if you opening hand the scope you likely are only going to hit 1/3 of the time which in my mind says its unlikely to really ramp you much faster than animist.
Blade of the Bloodchief - given we are a go wide deck, it could be useful if and when someone is killing some of our creatures by means of blocking but the fear I usually have when playing this deck is sweepers and not drawing into draw. Its better to focus more on making the mass of dudes better rather than improving one which is why I don't run much equipment myself.
Reconnaissance vs Dolmen Gate each have their advantages but keep in mind that Recon gives mass vigilance in that you can untap all of your creatures after they do damage as well. I haven't actually played with Dolmen Gate but it would probably be sweet vs a tokens deck. I might have to pick up a copy and try it out but I think they are about equal in most cases with the gate having a bit of an advantage vs tokens. Maybe I will pick up a copy and try it out. I don't think I would cut recon myself though but I could see it maybe being a thing alongside it. Recon has done some good work for me so far.
Vanquisher's Banner - my issue with the card is that its 5 mana and it does very little immediately. In a deck like this if I pay 5 mana for something I don't think I will have much luck playing several vamps the same turn. That leaves it kind of high and dry for opponents to use removal on it while I wait to untap. I just don't feel it has very good immediate value is the reason I don't like it as much here. Bolas's Citadel and Liliana, Dreadhorde General come out very soon and I think I like both of them over the banner because of how much faster they pick up their value. With this deck I am often trying to avoid having a lot of 4+ mana cards in it but when I do add them I want there to be a lot of immediate impact from them and my issue with Vanquisher's Banner is the somewhat high cost for this deck and low immediate value.
Oversold Cemetery - its very reactive and can be slow to spin up. If you see it in your opening hand it might literally just be a blank until you have a bunch of creatures die. It is value over time but my question is kind of along the lines of why not just play Phyrexian Arena, a card that you know will draw you a card every turn with no strings attached. What if someone has graveyard hate or what if you run out of gas and just don't have a lot of power in play yet. The card isn't good enough fast enough.
No problem, always glad to see more ideas for people.
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Ok, thats a lot to take in. I think we have a number of cards worth consideration. Right now, I am going to pull the trigger on a few of these but I am also going to pass on a few of them in part because I don't know where I would cut to include them. Bolas's Citadel looks very playable but for right now I will be including Liliana, Dreadhorde General over it due to the versatility of being an immediate board impact as well as being card draw. The Citadel can still have immediate impact but I just like having removal and draw packed together enough that I want to test her out over the citadel as of right now. God-Eternal Oketra is cool too but I won't be pulling the trigger for that either given the high competition for that kind of slot.
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[Modern] Allies
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB