Quote from Jund4Life »Have you thought about running Manabarbs since you went the low curve route? With some ok to decent life gain it really shines.
Quote from Tev »I'm switching my build to be more like yours. I've found that a standard list falls into the trap of traditional aggro but doesn't have the resiliency of Marchesa, the Black Rose's ability and I've got 3 opponents who can Wrath. This has made me go through your list. I don't think I'll go as low with the low cost build, but definitely a meaner, leaner deck.
One of the cards that surprised me in your lack of inclusion is Smuggler's Copter. Is there a particular reason why? It's superb filtering.
Edit: Oh yeah, I came across a neat card in the wild. Give Scapegoat a consideration.
Quote from dachivale »@Tev - I don't think Scapegoat is worth it... We run quite a few creatures to keep the gas going, having something to keep in hand vs sweepers really overall doesn't work so wel... you might also draw it when you already have had a sweeper used against you, making it somewhat a dead draw. Which we really need to have as little as possible chance to have it happen I think at least...
Smuggler's Copter is indeed a nice card, I don't know for sure if it fits the deck and if its needed at all.. I don't own a copy, but I would at least consider it if I did.. ^^
The lower you go on the curve overall the better I would say.. Also the more the merrier generally speaking, I have increased the number of vampires and lowered the curve in the last weeks overall and it has worked quite wel for me... (my list is probably nowhere near optimal) But yeah, so far low curve and high creature density does wel... ^^
@ ISBP - I don't know if that is the right direction to go with all the card choices, but definitely it's lowering your curve and improving your creature density so can't be completely wrong I think... Not to sure on cutting Shared Animosity that card has been really nuts for me when I drew it... ^^
Malakir Bloodwitch might be worth it as the high end creature, not so sure how wel it wil do, cause we might have been hit by a sweeper before hitting it, but then again other cards that are in the 5+ mana spot in most cases are either hit or mis I feel.. (Coat of Arms for example has the same issue a lot of times.. though I almost never lost when I did draw it..)
Also I never played the Falkenrath Noble to begin with, always thought he was lackluster for it's manacost..
Quote from yeedeehege »hi ISBPathfinder,
have you consider teysa orzhov scion? think she is good utility ,sac outlet and can convert the dead vampire tokens to spirit, your thoughts?
Quote from Tev »Considering you want efficient Anthems, tied to bodies, I remembered Soltari Champion. Unlike every other Anthem, it can't be gang blocked to death but still pumps the team. It's also Creature-type agnostic which matters more in my build than yours.
Quote from Tev »I got a Possibility Storm out yesterday and I'm not too sure if it would be good for your build. My build is not as lean, so that meant that I could cast a one or two drop Vampire but get a three drop, so I felt like it was a massive upswing in utility. The amount of bodies it spewed out was also fantastic, it got to the point where I just mass gang blocked an opposing Inferno Titan because it was shooting down my team. What was also fantastic was the protection it gave by messing with my opponent's ability to play out their gameplan. I did become the archenemy and I did die, but that was mostly due to a misplay where I forgot someone landed a Blind Obedience so I needed to keep more Vampires back than I originally thought (I had 8 poison and an opponent had Skittles, I forgot to leave back a flying blocker). If I hadn't screwed up, I would still be in the game and quite possibly eliminate one player on my next turn while fighting the other two.
Another thing I noted from your deck is Null Profusion. I know it draws off of any card cast, but the hand size of two just screams trouble to me. If someone ever hits with Unnerve, you're done. Instead, I would recommend Vanquisher's Banner. It is colorless, which may or may not matter, but it does cost one less which always helps an aggro deck. Whenever you play a Vampire, you would draw a card but it is also an Anthem. Plus it synergizes with Possibility Storm.
Edit: Oh yeah, on your OP, Fire Covenant is listed in the Sorcery section when it is an Instant.
Quote from dachivale »I never felt Null Profusion was a good choice myself, kind of like how Grafted Skullcap is also not great.. I think indeed that the Banner might be a better card. Personally don't own a copy, if I did I might add it. I think it would replace another high cost non-creature/non-vampire in my list if I could add it..
The Draw + pump is quite a nice deal, even though it doesn't further your board, it does further your hand.. thus at least considerable indeed.
@ ISBP - not sure if Gamble is a good card here, it's a risk and reward kind of card, it's great in Mairsil, cause it's win/win there no matter if it's discarded, that is not the same here though...
Not sure on tangle wire, I own a copy, never added it, for something like that, if we where to try and lock down, might as wel add other such cards, like winter orb, etc... I feel it's good when we are ahead, but a dead card when we need more gas, like so many other cards that could be added but aren't..
I get your point on shared animosity, but the same goes for many other cards, you need to really push gas to get damage in. I think we are lost at the point where we cannot do this as much.. thus why I feel that it would be a good card to keep in.. but again, might be a bit more either we are winning by a mile or losing by inches... ^^
I have used Soltari Champion in many decks and it is a good card - but I guess indeed it might not be as useful here... might better use Odric, Master Tactician.. make them block with nothing... this card has pushed my army past big creatures in many decks... and thinking I wil add it here also... (totally forgot about having that card and it's use in swarm decks..) - This wil be my 'cover of darkness' which I don't own.. ^^
Quote from Drain Life »My goodness, there is a lot of good content here, and I haven't even had time to finish reading the first page.
Thanks for another great thread ISBPathfinder. I noticed you have been on these boards for going on 7 years. Seems like just the other day, and to think that I have been here for over 11 takes me back.
We finally got our hands on Commander 2017 in Lima, Peru about a month ago and I jumped all over Edgar Markov. The wife called dibbs on Wizards and my best friend got Dragons. I had to go seraching for good content about Grandpa Munster, and this is a great landing point.
I must say that after all I have read thus far, you are running into the classic recurring problems which have been addressed and solved from magic's past.
You talk about needing more card draw, complaining about how little ramp you run, unsure what to do with removal, and uncertain hiw useful or useless things like coat of arms and Cauldron of Souls are or are not.
I do not claim to be the holder of sacred knowledge, but in my nearly 13 years of playing this game, I notice the old addage is true: the more things change, the more they stay the same. That is to say, this is still a turn based game based around math, percentages, turn order, resource management, probabilities and so forth.
Look, the best decks look to combo out on turn 4 if they can. Mayne sooner. I don't think we care about fighting against those deck with Edgar Markov. I think we are expecting our games to turn 10 or beyond, and in those games, building a resilient deck is important.
In a 4 or 5 player game, that means we are facing 120-160 points of life to chew through, and our commander is designed to win innthe red zone rather than just dropping some combo and making the table scoop.
If someone wants to put combos in our Vigo the Carpathian deck, then more power to you. I am more interested in battles of attrition and grinding out victory with this deck.
You see, my best non-combo decks tend to have the same things in common, and it is echoed by many other players like on the podcast "The Command Zone." We want 10-14 forms of card draw and maybe tutors. We want 35 or so lands with 10 or so forms of ramp.
In magic, we are limited to one land drop per turn, and bending that ruke with ramp puts us ahead of the curve. As our opponents are trying to do the same, it also allows us to keep up with mana production.
The same is true about card draw. As we cast ramp and action spells, how hand disappears.a sizeable portion of card draw will refill our hand after an early resource dump, keep us from running out of gas as the game goes along, and give us a ton of options.
There was a great thread on the WotC forms years ago showing how decks with this much ramp and card draw had significantly more mana available to cast action spells by turn 10 (than a deck without any), as well as having access to more action spells. Remember, "action spells" are anything which is not ramp, lands, or card draw.
You cannot skimp on this stuff.
Next, remeber WHY we are in red black and white. The big reason we are running white, as opposed to Oliva as our commander, is access to disenchant effects. We can kill creature in blacl no problem. We can shatter artifacts withthe help of red. We can kill planeswalkers, reanimate creaturea, draw cards, and cast board wipes all without white. We are playing white so we can run Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking, Return to Dust and other such removal. Do not under estimate Utter End, and if you have to cut it, make sure you still have about 8+ forms of quality removal in the deck. Okay... that and Sorin Planeswalkers.
In my time with the deck out of the box, it is surprising how quickly it can build an army from nothing, and rebuild after a board wipe.
I personally like having quality vampires over a high quantity of them. I don't want a bunch of terrible 1 and 2 drops over some quality 3-6 drops.
Another old piece of advice is understamding who the beat down is and only casting the cards you need to help you win. It is so important to be conservative and no over extend your hand. Several of the vampires which come in the deck have the ability to take over the game, and when I play, they tend to bait a lot of mass removal. That is fine with me, as they are eventually going to run out and won't be able to answer the final push. That is also why we bait with our weakest win conditions and make life more ajd more miserable every time it comes back to our turn.
Far too often people talk about not even casting Edgar and waiting until he can pump a swarm of creatures, and they seem to forget what kind of pressure he puts on our opponents. First strike is an underrated combat ability until you have to figure out blocks. What's worse is how he grows on each attack.
Opponets who are not staring down the fangs of Edgar Markov are often happy to let him strike down our common foe. Those who have become the unfortunate target hate to burn up spot removal against a commander, because even Swords to Plowshares starts to feel like unsummon when the commander is sent back to the command zone.
This meams that We oftem bait mass removal or force ineffecient plays, which grants us the advantage.
I can't wait to keep reading later. I hope this was a worthwhile read.
Quote from Zauberstein »Nice deck, can't wait to see the reports. Have you considered grave pact? It may provide a form of evasion stopping your opponent from blocking if they do not want to sac a creature. Also, if you are lucky enough to have grave pact with skullclamp the card advantage will be unreal lol
Quote from ctaylor33 »How do you feel about Hammer of Purphoros and Whip of Erebos?
Quote from DementedKirby »I'm really liking this take on Edgar Markov because it's not about the goodstuff vampires and it's going for quantity over quality. I know you're trying to keep the mana curve down very low, but what about adding one or two blink spells to take advantage of cards like Malakir Bloodwitch and Purphoros, God of the Forge? Maybe Eerie Interlude? It's cheap to cast and you choose which creatures are blinked. I'd choose Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle for the swap. It costs the same, and a cheap vampire he is not (especially when compared to all your 1-drop and 2-drop creatures). As a token producer I feel that he's a bit slow since he can only make one vamp each combat. Sure, you don't always have blowout games like the ones you told about, and you may end up going for the long haul in games that drag on, but I feel he's a bit slow even then. Even so, the next set in the Ixalan block will definitely bring more vampires for you to choose.
Quote from ctaylor33 »I don't want to answer for ISB but based on other threads of his I have followed, and questions I have asked him in the past, he is not a fan of one time blink effects.
Quote from DementedKirby »Yeah, I see what you mean. I was looking at those two cards in particular as more potential wincons than they are. But if Eerie Interlude were just dependent on them, it’d be a dead draw most of the time. As for those 3-5 nonVampire cards that you may cut, Rivals of Ixalan will definitely provide you with some more vampires.
Quote from Ud5soul »I only see the creatures from your list. Am I doing something wrong? Is the full list posted?
Quote from dachivale »I do hope the next set wil bring more pump lords.. I am gonna edit/change my deck a bit more when I get some time also... I think I took out Malakir Bloodwitch but indeed that might have been a mistake...
Lately just haven't felt much like playing magic, guess after playing since Beta my slump has finally arrived.. might also be that my play group is not as active and its kinda boring to be playing 1v1 games with the same person 3 weeks in a row... Especially cause it's a person I am not the biggest fan of lets say... ^^
But to not regress to much into stories that are neither here nor there... Lets hope for something good low cost or pump for vamps next set and I also don't think blink and other strategies are needed or good for the deck.. Mavren Fein does seem less powerful reading again that it's only 1 token, not 1 per non-token that attacked... (definitely read the card wrong.. xD)
Hope to possibly put some more money into a few decks, this one might be included when I do get some cards.. (need more tutors, etc..)