I've decided to cut Seedborn Muse. The idea was that I could use it with Zacama to have an alternative means for extra mana, blowing up all non-land permanents, but I've found that I just have not needed it as part of my plan, as usually I'll have enough mana to remove the actual troublesome permanents with just natural mana. I really want to have more draw cards in the deck, as sometimes you will be top-decking hoping to draw action, even if you do have control over the game. I've added Mikokoro, Center of the Sea as its an extra means to draw cards, and in the instance of infinite mana, you can draw your deck. With Grand Aboliser, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dramoka and Silence, the downside that all players draw isn't a problem with one of these as you can draw into the win-con that turn anyway. There is a threshold ratio for land ramp versus draw, so replacing Skyshroud Claim with Harmonize, will help with top decking.
What about Kessig Wolf Run as an alternate win con? If you have protection set up already it'll kill one opponent for each creature you can swing, and it's the same cost as Shivan Gorge.
What about Kessig Wolf Run as an alternate win con? If you have protection set up already it'll kill one opponent for each creature you can swing, and it's the same cost as Shivan Gorge.
I've avoided cards in the deck that rely on actually attacking. Like for example you can get a lot of value out of a card like Sword of Feast and Famine. With Zacama not actually having haste, waiting an entire turn I think too slow for this archetype. There are only 15 creatures in the deck, so using Kessig Wolf Run will be a bit hit and miss. For the same reason I'm not running Hunter's Prowess, because even though it fits perfectly with card draw via creatures power, the delay in turn is enough that card is not good enough.
Makes sense. Any advice on building this on a budget, especially the mana base? Would you include more basics because of all the search cards or buddy, scry, etc because we want so much green?
Makes sense. Any advice on building this on a budget, especially the mana base? Would you include more basics because of all the search cards or buddy, scry, etc because we want so much green?
I've identified the most expensive cards, and I think I have some pretty excellent alternatives to still making a "storm" deck. There is some argument, that once you compromise on cards that you might want to look at less of a storm build, but I think I can build a deck that is still on theme.
Yes you would play mainly basic lands, removing all the expensive duel lands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Zacama, Primal Calamity Storm on a Budget:
I have listed more budget cards than there are expensive cards. So I'll have a good think about an exact configuration for a budget build and update the OP with an official section for it.
I've update the original post with a Budget Build section. The deck is actually super sweet, and has all the same potential to combo off early as the non-budget version
I've been impressed with Sandstone Oracle and Reforge the Soul in the budget build, and draw is so important, that I've added both these to the alpha build. Removed a Forest and Burgeoning.
So I've still been testing the deck along side your developments. I've gone a slightly different direction with many more mana dorks to speed the deck up a turn. This also enables me to keep the Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman package, as well as making Sunforger a slightly more reliable equipment to use.
I've added Heroic Intervention to the list of protection spells. It's pretty good even though it can't be tutored by Sunforger. I've replaced the Pyroblast type cards since I don't have as many blue decks to worry about. Those spells will obciously always be meta dependant. I'll have to try the clunkier card draw options like the Sandstone Oracle and Reforge the Soul, but so far I'm pretty happy with the 99 in it's current iteration. I will probably try to find a spot for Regal Force since I need a green creature card draw spell to tutor for, I just hate it's high cmc. Still looking for better options.
A hurdle that I've run into and lost multiple times is against a hatebears deck. Linvala, Keeper of Silence is an extremely hard card to fight through. I often can't beat that card coupled with Spirit of the Labyrinth or Gaddock Teeg. If either of those combos hit the board, my only out is Sunforger for Oblation. Any other ideas for beating this style of deck without diluting the game plan too much? The deck can power through counter spells and interaction pretty well, but the stax/hatebears style decks have been interesting and fun to play against.
So I've still been testing the deck along side your developments. I've gone a slightly different direction with many more mana dorks to speed the deck up a turn. This also enables me to keep the Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman package, as well as making Sunforger a slightly more reliable equipment to use.
I've added Heroic Intervention to the list of protection spells. It's pretty good even though it can't be tutored by Sunforger. I've replaced the Pyroblast type cards since I don't have as many blue decks to worry about. Those spells will obciously always be meta dependant. I'll have to try the clunkier card draw options like the Sandstone Oracle and Reforge the Soul, but so far I'm pretty happy with the 99 in it's current iteration. I will probably try to find a spot for Regal Force since I need a green creature card draw spell to tutor for, I just hate it's high cmc. Still looking for better options.
A hurdle that I've run into and lost multiple times is against a hatebears deck. Linvala, Keeper of Silence is an extremely hard card to fight through. I often can't beat that card coupled with Spirit of the Labyrinth or Gaddock Teeg. If either of those combos hit the board, my only out is Sunforger for Oblation. Any other ideas for beating this style of deck without diluting the game plan too much? The deck can power through counter spells and interaction pretty well, but the stax/hatebears style decks have been interesting and fun to play against.
I played some games last night and got destroyed by land destruction. One group I play with is going hard on the land destruction route, which is very, very problematic for this deck. So mana dorks are a way to keep you borderline in the game. So I'm looking at your additions as something I might adopt.
I did add Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile to my budget build, and the thing that makes them better in a Zacama deck, is that you can actually use them to generate mana with a mana doubler, if you target Zacama with them. Same, same as a once off sacrifice outlet to recast for more mana. Path being the better of the cards, because you get the extra land, then get to untap it. Obviously these are good against Gaddock Teeg, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
Chaos Warp is the other Sunforger card that I used to run. So potentially against Stax, another card you can use at end of turn to maybe free yourself up (for example removing a Winter Orb, etc)
I like the addition of Path to Exile. One cmc is great, and getting an extra land from your own creature in a pinch is equally great.
So far 19 creatures is a low count for Survival of the Fittest, but I only need one creature to get Temur Sabertooth for the loop. Sabertooth can then bounce any creature on the battlefield to retrieve the card draw piece. I will start actively counting to see how many times Survival is a dead card because of a lack of creatures, but ultimately getting one activation has been more than enough to set up the win. I just don't like overloading on 3 cmc creature-based ramp spells for those times you don't have a turn one dork.
Heroic Intervention is an absolute blowout against MLD, and I strongly recommend finding a slot. Ultimately, MLD-based decks are going to ranch Zacama so I'm not sure there's any point in trying to change the deck too much. If you know that's what you're in for, prioritize tutoring for Land Tax as that can dig you out faster than other decks typically could.
If you get to trigger Oath of Druids, then you will either get a mana doubler creature or World Shaper. There is a huge difference to starting your turn with double mana and having all your lands untapped. You really only need 5 lands to combo off.
There is the instance where you hit World Shaper. You should have a fairly large quantity of lands in your graveyard off the Oath of Druids. So this or Splendid Reclamation can really set you up. Past in Flames is an all star in this build as if it gets milled with Oath of Druids you can potentially leverage a massive turn casting all your instants and sorceries.
Replenish is another card you can cast to return all the enchantments from your graveyard. Also even without the Oath of Druids, you can use this card to follow up somebody doing a board wipe, setting up again.
Admittedly the idea behind this was a bit of a response to playing against a lot of land destruction. I really wanted to incorporate World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation.
I've removed the Temur Sabertooth infinite, and as such removed some of the lands that relied on infinite. The thing is that when you combo storm off, you are making huge amounts of mana anyway.
The downside is that I'm not running the normal disruption protection creatures: Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dromoka. It might be correct to run one of these, so even if it comes into play with Oath of Druids, they can add value in the right match ups.
Saw the deck in action, it seemed sweet! Thinking about building it for FMN 1v1 commander, but we use the MTGO 1v1 ban list, so I'll need to make some changes. Any suggestions?
Saw the deck in action, it seemed sweet! Thinking about building it for FMN 1v1 commander, but we use the MTGO 1v1 ban list, so I'll need to make some changes. Any suggestions?
My previous builds did not have graveyard based strategy as a secondary component, so you I've posted my old list below and you can cross reference how you might build without the Oath of Druids.
I haven't done the "How to Pilot the Deck" yet, but as you saw in our game, make sure you remove the mana doublers yourself (via Zacama) if you're passing the turn. If I gave you guys double mana, then the game would have gone much differently.
While I'm probably going to stick with the traditional combo route, I have to say the Oath of Druids plan is incredible. Never in a million years would I have thought of that. Personally, I've been slowly lowering the CMC of my spells, and focusing more on stuff like Pyroblast, Guttural Response and Orim's Chant to protect the combo turn a little better. I'm loving the refinements that are happening with Zacama, and I hope one day he can be considered a possible legitimate combo general instead of just a big, dumb Naya Dinosaur.
Here is my Zacama list if you want to have a look. C&C is always appreciated.
While I'm probably going to stick with the traditional combo route, I have to say the Oath of Druids plan is incredible. Never in a million years would I have thought of that. Personally, I've been slowly lowering the CMC of my spells, and focusing more on stuff like Pyroblast, Guttural Response and Orim's Chant to protect the combo turn a little better. I'm loving the refinements that are happening with Zacama, and I hope one day he can be considered a possible legitimate combo general instead of just a big, dumb Naya Dinosaur.
Here is my Zacama list if you want to have a look. C&C is always appreciated.
I have a few decks based off Oath of Druids already, so when I really started cutting down on the creatures, and was already starting to leverage GY in the budget build with Past in Flames and Mizzix's Mastery, it "clicked".
I had been thinking about an all non-creature based storm deck a while ago with Zacama. I was even thinking about things like Rite of Flame, Pyretic Ritual, Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Inner Fire, Mana Geyser, as a really turbo version of the deck. But decided that its a bit to all in on one thing and just producing red isn't quite where you want to be at.
I like your list, but I would recommend to really get as many of the mana doublers as you can get your hands on It really is the thing that makes this deck work. Most games opponents will have an answer to at least the first one, so having multiple will help with disruption more. Plus you really want to stack them, that is how you can really get the engine humming.
I really like the Academy Rector, I was thinking about adding it to previous builds. Its one of those things that if it gets killed in opponents turns, then it means you have a turn of untapped lands and a mana doubler, which often means GG.
If I added any more doublers, it would probably just be a Vorinclex. That said, my local meta isn't really keen on Vorinclex, and I want to try and keep my friends while also being competitive. I'll at least give the others some consideration.
Academy Rector is sweet. With the inclusion of High Market in my deck, I can sacrifice the Rector to immediately go find the Mana Reflection, or perhaps a Greater Good if the Reflection is either not needed, in play or in the graveyard.
I haven't gotten to actually cast the Orim's Chant yet, but I was playing Silence before, and Chant is a straight upgrade over it.
Great thread and deck! Thanks for keeping us posted on new ideas.
Couple suggestions:
Vedalken Orrery - lets us play any of the mana doublers on an opponents turn so we can untap and go off without giving anyone else extra mana.
Slayers' Stronghold - alternative win con especially for creature-light playgroups, with enough draw to dig for creatures this could kill the board. Maybe include Kessig Wolf Run to get through blockers and act as a win con if you have a creature without summoning sickness. Obviously this doesn't go in the Oath of Druids version.
I also wonder whether running more combo pieces, either additional bouncers or the graveyard recursion package, is worth it for a budget version since you have fewer tutors. Have you had trouble digging for an actual win con?
Nice approach to this general. Any reason you excluded Dust Elemental? It's like Stormfront Riders in that it's self-contained (No need for Flameshadow Conjuring et al), but also has flash. You need 14 mana from lands, and infinite mana right there. I find that an even mana count is an easier breakpoint to achieve with the doublers, although with 2x of them 15 mana with 5 lands is nice.
Great thread and deck! Thanks for keeping us posted on new ideas.
Couple suggestions:
Vedalken Orrery - lets us play any of the mana doublers on an opponents turn so we can untap and go off without giving anyone else extra mana.
Slayers' Stronghold - alternative win con especially for creature-light playgroups, with enough draw to dig for creatures this could kill the board. Maybe include Kessig Wolf Run to get through blockers and act as a win con if you have a creature without summoning sickness. Obviously this doesn't go in the Oath of Druids version.
I also wonder whether running more combo pieces, either additional bouncers or the graveyard recursion package, is worth it for a budget version since you have fewer tutors. Have you had trouble digging for an actual win con?
I was thinking about Vedalken Orrery yesterday, perfect for before turn mana doublers. You do have a lot of games where you have the goods in hand, but your opponent(s) are just not tapping out, so you know something fishy is up and its hard to just play into their disruption. So in this instance I'd be happy to spend a turn playing a Vedalken Orrery, if it gets removed so be it. But I am worried about only playing a turn 3-4 Vedalken Orrery, where I could be doing a land ramp card instead. Taking a "turn off" to play it will seem like an eternity sometimes. If Seedborn Muse was still in the deck, then it would be a different story.
I added Slayers' Stronghold to the budget build, as it has Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess. Obviously non-colored mana comes at a price, so what I look to do is see if I can remove a spell for a land at this stage, as the color requires are locked in I think. Any less and we are missing out on casting certain spells on time consistently. I did this with trying Flamekin Village instead of a Forest, and sure enough two games in a row got kind of screwed by it in starting hand. Had to remove it and put back the Forest. But in the alpha build, I'm rarely attacking.
Honestly just through playing combo bounce pieces initially, I found them to be the weakest cards in the deck, compared to straight up ramp and draw. You generate all the mana you need, infinite is just not required. I've changed the budget build to be almost exactly like the alpha, just replacing some expensive cards here and there. So it has the Oath of Druids portion, which means that bounce creatures, rather than mana doublers could come into play which will probably not help pre-setup. Don't get me wrong there is a build that the bouncers would be good in, I look forward to seeing peoples list in the future.
Once you start chaining spells you're drawing your whole deck, it's as simply as that. The game is lost on whether your opponents have been able to stop your mana doublers or blow up your lands previously. The only difficulties as far as win-condition is making sure I don't draw more than my whole deck
Nice approach to this general. Any reason you excluded Dust Elemental? It's like Stormfront Riders in that it's self-contained (No need for Flameshadow Conjuring et al), but also has flash. You need 14 mana from lands, and infinite mana right there. I find that an even mana count is an easier breakpoint to achieve with the doublers, although with 2x of them 15 mana with 5 lands is nice.
Just didn't know that card existed, will add it to thread. Super strong in a build which has lots of cheap ETB creatures to gain advantage. I could see Aluren being an addition with maybe cards like Priest of Urabrask and Burning-Tree Emissary? I'm not sure but the potential for a pure ETB bounce deck is open for sure.
The ability to play a turn 2-4 Mana Flare/Heartbeat of Spring, with RR available to cast one of these cards, would allow you to attempt your combo turn, because all you really need is 5 lands at the start of your chain. Nothing is certain, but if you have the sort of cards in hand that are conducive to chaining off, then this deck really does kill opponents before you would lose the game. It's the same for the other mana doublers, if you can get the extra RR, then chances are you can combo off, letting your opponents not get to untap and remove what ever you have put onto the board.
I'm going to test 2 of them at first, Final Fortune, Last Chance. I suspect this is probably the correct number, but Warrior's Oath cost $57, so I hope so!
The extra turns cards are in fact really, really good in this deck. I was worried about having them too early in the game, but it turns out they can really set you up for a game plan, even when in your starting hands.
I added an extra red source with Fire-lit Thicket to enable cast red card a bit early, especially with Final Fortune and Last Chance. I would like to get 1 more red source in the deck, but it's hard to take out non-forest lands.
World Shaper can be a bit slow. I think it's just better to know exactly that you're getting a mana doubler, so you have a clear plan. Food Chain ended up being the least used of the mana producers. I just found myself not needing it and it does come with a risk to your Commander tax, if you fail to combo. Molten Disaster I didn't think too hard on my win condition, so the best I've come up with technically is Rolling Earthquake. It's possible to play it early game, as your Past in Flames can use it once you've combo'ed off. I am happy to here if anybody has a more versatile win condition that is not a creature?
Talking with my friends last night, they suggested I try a Grapeshot as a win condition, since part of my particular game plan is to bounce and replay Zacama to generate infinite mana. I don't really feel like playing a Storm card, since it doesn't really do anything until that turn, and I have better ways of killing the table than that. Perhaps it would fit your build better?
Talking with my friends last night, they suggested I try a Grapeshot as a win condition, since part of my particular game plan is to bounce and replay Zacama to generate infinite mana. I don't really feel like playing a Storm card, since it doesn't really do anything until that turn, and I have better ways of killing the table than that. Perhaps it would fit your build better?
I agree Grapeshot is a near dead card unless you are actually using it as a finisher. You already have the Shivan Gorge, Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge, which in my opinion is two too many win cons But I would change Impact Tremors for Goblin Bombardment. Both assume infinite mana for victory, but Goblin Bombardment has the advantage of being a sacrifice outlet, which can be important to generating extra mana. Also Purphoros, God of the Forge doesn't really do anything on it's own, it assumes your infinite combo, so I think Vance's Blasting Cannons is just better, as you can use it early as card advantage, then flip it into Spitfire Bastion for a victory condition.
Added
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
- Harmonize
RemovedNiv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Yes you would play mainly basic lands, removing all the expensive duel lands.
List of expensive cards in alpha deck:
Dragonlord Dromoka 15.00
Azusa, Lost but Seeking 50.55
Oracle of Mul Daya 23.27
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds 15.73
Three Visits 63.48
Teferi's Protection 12.79
Mana Crypt 165.00
Mana Vault 16.96
Sensei's Divining Top 12.99
Grim Monolith 69.66
Memory Jar 15.40
Wheel of Fortune 85.49
Food Chain 38.48
Land Tax 23.09
Worldly Tutor 11.94
Eladamri's Call 10.99
Summoner's Pact 18.00
Enlightened Tutor 11.36
Exploration 16.42
Teferi's Protection 12.79
Sylvan Library 15.90
Mana Reflection 26.49
- Non-basic lands would be replaced by basic lands
Dryad Arbor 9.96
Arid Mesa 30.00
Bloodstained Mire 17.83
Flooded Strand 15.25
Marsh Flats 30.92
Misty Rainforest 33.99
Plateau 74.89
Sacred Foundry 15.80
Savannah 98.96
Scalding Tarn 68.26
Stomping Ground 14.25
Taiga 93.59
Temple Garden 9.95
Verdant Catacombs 43.90
Winding Canyons 9.48
Windswept Heath 12.56
Wooded Foothills 16.99
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea 13.93
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zacama, Primal Calamity Storm on a Budget:
Draw
Reforge the Soul 2.99
Sandstone Oracle 0.28
Recycle 1.40
Soul of the Harvest 0.29
Kozilek, the Great Distortion 3.60
Hunter's Insight 0.25
Hunter's Prowess 0.28
Alms Collector 1.87
Arch of Orazca 0.56
Ramp
Skyshroud Claim 2.25
Summer Bloom 1.03
Voyaging Satyr 0.16
Yavimaya Dryad 0.23
Hope Tender 0.22
Krosan Restorer 0.30
Wild Growth 0.17
Rampant Growth 0.19
Arbor Elf 0.26
Winter's Night 0.36
Rude Awakening 0.41
Haste - The reason for Haste is to make Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess more reliable cards.
Flamekin Village 1.40
Hanweir Battlements 0.62
Samut, Voice of Dissent 1.00
Surrak, the Hunt Caller 0.43
Artifact Hate - With removing all the artifact mana in the deck, these would be a good backup hoser.
Seeds of Innocence 1.70
Stony Silence 5.17
Other
Xantid Swarm 0.63
Eldritch Evolution 1.62
Boros Charm 3.48
I have listed more budget cards than there are expensive cards. So I'll have a good think about an exact configuration for a budget build and update the OP with an official section for it.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Added
- Sandstone Oracle
- Reforge the Soul
RemovedNiv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Here's the list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zacama-naya-flare-1/?cache=2018-01-28%2014:31:49.934924
I've added Heroic Intervention to the list of protection spells. It's pretty good even though it can't be tutored by Sunforger. I've replaced the Pyroblast type cards since I don't have as many blue decks to worry about. Those spells will obciously always be meta dependant. I'll have to try the clunkier card draw options like the Sandstone Oracle and Reforge the Soul, but so far I'm pretty happy with the 99 in it's current iteration. I will probably try to find a spot for Regal Force since I need a green creature card draw spell to tutor for, I just hate it's high cmc. Still looking for better options.
A hurdle that I've run into and lost multiple times is against a hatebears deck. Linvala, Keeper of Silence is an extremely hard card to fight through. I often can't beat that card coupled with Spirit of the Labyrinth or Gaddock Teeg. If either of those combos hit the board, my only out is Sunforger for Oblation. Any other ideas for beating this style of deck without diluting the game plan too much? The deck can power through counter spells and interaction pretty well, but the stax/hatebears style decks have been interesting and fun to play against.
I played some games last night and got destroyed by land destruction. One group I play with is going hard on the land destruction route, which is very, very problematic for this deck. So mana dorks are a way to keep you borderline in the game. So I'm looking at your additions as something I might adopt.
I did add Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile to my budget build, and the thing that makes them better in a Zacama deck, is that you can actually use them to generate mana with a mana doubler, if you target Zacama with them. Same, same as a once off sacrifice outlet to recast for more mana. Path being the better of the cards, because you get the extra land, then get to untap it. Obviously these are good against Gaddock Teeg, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
Chaos Warp is the other Sunforger card that I used to run. So potentially against Stax, another card you can use at end of turn to maybe free yourself up (for example removing a Winter Orb, etc)
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
So far 19 creatures is a low count for Survival of the Fittest, but I only need one creature to get Temur Sabertooth for the loop. Sabertooth can then bounce any creature on the battlefield to retrieve the card draw piece. I will start actively counting to see how many times Survival is a dead card because of a lack of creatures, but ultimately getting one activation has been more than enough to set up the win. I just don't like overloading on 3 cmc creature-based ramp spells for those times you don't have a turn one dork.
Heroic Intervention is an absolute blowout against MLD, and I strongly recommend finding a slot. Ultimately, MLD-based decks are going to ranch Zacama so I'm not sure there's any point in trying to change the deck too much. If you know that's what you're in for, prioritize tutoring for Land Tax as that can dig you out faster than other decks typically could.
Oath of Druids can become an important part of your game plan. I've added cards that leverage off your graveyard: Replenish, Splendid Reclamation, Noxious Revival, Regrowth, World Shaper, Past in Flames, Mizzix's Mastery.
If you get to trigger Oath of Druids, then you will either get a mana doubler creature or World Shaper. There is a huge difference to starting your turn with double mana and having all your lands untapped. You really only need 5 lands to combo off.
There is the instance where you hit World Shaper. You should have a fairly large quantity of lands in your graveyard off the Oath of Druids. So this or Splendid Reclamation can really set you up. Past in Flames is an all star in this build as if it gets milled with Oath of Druids you can potentially leverage a massive turn casting all your instants and sorceries.
Replenish is another card you can cast to return all the enchantments from your graveyard. Also even without the Oath of Druids, you can use this card to follow up somebody doing a board wipe, setting up again.
Admittedly the idea behind this was a bit of a response to playing against a lot of land destruction. I really wanted to incorporate World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation.
I've removed the Temur Sabertooth infinite, and as such removed some of the lands that relied on infinite. The thing is that when you combo storm off, you are making huge amounts of mana anyway.
The downside is that I'm not running the normal disruption protection creatures: Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dromoka. It might be correct to run one of these, so even if it comes into play with Oath of Druids, they can add value in the right match ups.
1 Zacama, Primal Calamity
Mana Doublers (12)
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Mana Flare
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Keeper of Progenitus
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Dictate of Karametra
1 Zhur-Taa Ancient
1 Regal Behemoth
1 Mana Reflection
1 Zendikar Resurgent
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Caged Sun
Mana (16)
1 Exploration
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Farseek
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Ranger's Path
1 Summer Bloom
1 Early Harvest
1 Rude Awakening
Draw (11)
1 Greater Good
1 Life's Legacy
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Momentous Fall
1 Harmonize
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Memory Jar
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 Genesis Wave (pseudo draw)
1 Noxious Revival
1 Regrowth
1 Replenish
1 Past in Flames
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 World Shaper
Instants and Soceries (besides Ramp, Draw, Graveyard)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Silence
1 Path to Exile
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Oblation
1 Chaos Warp
1 Lapse of Certainty
1 Molten Disaster
Enchantments
1 Land Tax
1 Sylvan Library
1 Oath of Druids
1 Sterling Grove
1 City of Solitude
1 Food Chain
Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
Lands (34)
9 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Scattered Groves
1 Canopy Vista
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Cinder Glade
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Krosan Verge
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 High Market
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Added
Removed
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
My previous builds did not have graveyard based strategy as a secondary component, so you I've posted my old list below and you can cross reference how you might build without the Oath of Druids.
1 Zacama, Primal Calamity
Mana Doublers (12)
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Mana Flare
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Keeper of Progenitus
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Dictate of Karametra
1 Zhur-Taa Ancient
1 Regal Behemoth
1 Mana Reflection
1 Zendikar Resurgent
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Caged Sun
Combo
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Food Chain
Mana Ramp (14)
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Farseek
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Exploration
Draw (14)
1 Greater Good
1 Life's Legacy
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
1 Momentous Fall
1 Harmonize
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Memory Jar
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 Regal Force
1 Sandstone Oracle
1 Genesis Wave (pseudo draw)
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
Instants and Soceries
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Silence
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Oblation
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Lapse of Certainty
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Enchantments
1 Land Tax
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sterling Grove
Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sunforger
Lands (35)
9 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Scattered Groves
1 Canopy Vista
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Cinder Glade
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Krosan Verge
1 Winding Canyons
1 Shivan Gorge
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
I haven't done the "How to Pilot the Deck" yet, but as you saw in our game, make sure you remove the mana doublers yourself (via Zacama) if you're passing the turn. If I gave you guys double mana, then the game would have gone much differently.
Instead of Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault run Arbor Elf, Birds of Paradise, Elvish Mystic.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Here is my Zacama list if you want to have a look. C&C is always appreciated.
When a Terastodon (Natural Order on turn 4 type stuff) hits that table 100% it's getting 3 of my land, so I like to have outs in my deck, like Splendid Reclamation to potential recover quick. I have another Oath of Druids deck, which only has Rune-Scarred Demon and Sidisi, Undead Vizier, which I normally tutor for something to cast Splendid Reclamation, so I'm setup with like 15+ lands in play. So it's a tried and true thing I've done in the past.
I had been thinking about an all non-creature based storm deck a while ago with Zacama. I was even thinking about things like Rite of Flame, Pyretic Ritual, Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Inner Fire, Mana Geyser, as a really turbo version of the deck. But decided that its a bit to all in on one thing and just producing red isn't quite where you want to be at.
I like your list, but I would recommend to really get as many of the mana doublers as you can get your hands on
Also make sure you play Soul's Majesty.
I really like the Academy Rector, I was thinking about adding it to previous builds. Its one of those things that if it gets killed in opponents turns, then it means you have a turn of untapped lands and a mana doubler, which often means GG.
I want to include Orim's Chant, great call. Now that I don't have Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dromoka, the deck is much weaker to counterspell magic.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Academy Rector is sweet. With the inclusion of High Market in my deck, I can sacrifice the Rector to immediately go find the Mana Reflection, or perhaps a Greater Good if the Reflection is either not needed, in play or in the graveyard.
I haven't gotten to actually cast the Orim's Chant yet, but I was playing Silence before, and Chant is a straight upgrade over it.
Couple suggestions:
Vedalken Orrery - lets us play any of the mana doublers on an opponents turn so we can untap and go off without giving anyone else extra mana.
Slayers' Stronghold - alternative win con especially for creature-light playgroups, with enough draw to dig for creatures this could kill the board. Maybe include Kessig Wolf Run to get through blockers and act as a win con if you have a creature without summoning sickness. Obviously this doesn't go in the Oath of Druids version.
I also wonder whether running more combo pieces, either additional bouncers or the graveyard recursion package, is worth it for a budget version since you have fewer tutors. Have you had trouble digging for an actual win con?
I added Slayers' Stronghold to the budget build, as it has Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess. Obviously non-colored mana comes at a price, so what I look to do is see if I can remove a spell for a land at this stage, as the color requires are locked in I think. Any less and we are missing out on casting certain spells on time consistently. I did this with trying Flamekin Village instead of a Forest, and sure enough two games in a row got kind of screwed by it in starting hand. Had to remove it and put back the Forest. But in the alpha build, I'm rarely attacking.
Honestly just through playing combo bounce pieces initially, I found them to be the weakest cards in the deck, compared to straight up ramp and draw. You generate all the mana you need, infinite is just not required. I've changed the budget build to be almost exactly like the alpha, just replacing some expensive cards here and there. So it has the Oath of Druids portion, which means that bounce creatures, rather than mana doublers could come into play which will probably not help pre-setup. Don't get me wrong there is a build that the bouncers would be good in, I look forward to seeing peoples list in the future.
Once you start chaining spells you're drawing your whole deck, it's as simply as that. The game is lost on whether your opponents have been able to stop your mana doublers or blow up your lands previously. The only difficulties as far as win-condition is making sure I don't draw more than my whole deck
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The ability to play a turn 2-4 Mana Flare/Heartbeat of Spring, with RR available to cast one of these cards, would allow you to attempt your combo turn, because all you really need is 5 lands at the start of your chain. Nothing is certain, but if you have the sort of cards in hand that are conducive to chaining off, then this deck really does kill opponents before you would lose the game. It's the same for the other mana doublers, if you can get the extra RR, then chances are you can combo off, letting your opponents not get to untap and remove what ever you have put onto the board.
I'm going to test 2 of them at first, Final Fortune, Last Chance. I suspect this is probably the correct number, but Warrior's Oath cost $57, so I hope so!
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
- Final Fortune
- Last Chance
- Fire-lit Thicket
- Rolling Earthquake
RemovedThe extra turns cards are in fact really, really good in this deck. I was worried about having them too early in the game, but it turns out they can really set you up for a game plan, even when in your starting hands.
I added an extra red source with Fire-lit Thicket to enable cast red card a bit early, especially with Final Fortune and
Last Chance. I would like to get 1 more red source in the deck, but it's hard to take out non-forest lands.
World Shaper can be a bit slow. I think it's just better to know exactly that you're getting a mana doubler, so you have a clear plan.
Food Chain ended up being the least used of the mana producers. I just found myself not needing it and it does come with a risk to your Commander tax, if you fail to combo.
Molten Disaster I didn't think too hard on my win condition, so the best I've come up with technically is Rolling Earthquake. It's possible to play it early game, as your Past in Flames can use it once you've combo'ed off. I am happy to here if anybody has a more versatile win condition that is not a creature?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith