I'd say Arena of the Ancients may not be quite as narrow as y'all think. Note that it says "legends" not legendary creatures. Bye bye Gaea's Cradle, some artifacts, and other legendary creatures that get played. It is narrow, but not totally narrow. I need help beating this dumb jeleva deck, and I just haven't been able to test the card much at all. Keeping for now.
Hey benjameenbear, very grateful for the response! Stoked on the list you provided.
I am on a budget. Basically, I don't ever spend more than $25 dollars on a single card, and that only occasionally. Also, my playgroup already has trouble dealing with the deck, so I don't want to make it too powerful. EDH is about fun for me, and it's not fun if the same person wins all the time. That being said, this deck would make a great competitive commander. (Just realized I still have the competitive tag on this, I'll remove it.) I'm sure the list you put up would actually fall into the truly competitive category. This is my first choice as far as which deck to optimize though. It may actually reach that competitive realm in the next couple of years.
Some of the cards you've recommended I will add to the deck when I can trade for them or afford them, Toxic DelugeTraining Grounds being most notable. Add venser, shaper savant to that list too. I have always been reading this card as only "return target permanent to its owner's hand" and just now noticed the "spell or" part of the card. Now it makes sense why this card is so great.
I have been considering a Haunted Crossroads as a budget volrath's stronghold type effect. My deck currently isn't creature dense enough for that to happen. I think you're right, adding in even more cheap creatures to really up the count would help the deck out.
LOVE Soldevi Adnate and Aphetto Alchemist Nice and cheap $ too without extremely pushing the power level of the deck. Thanks for that type about sacrificing the now black zombie tokens that the god "externalizes". I have hesitated on Crypt Ghast because I'm just not sure how effective it will be. When I think about it though, if I have only one swamp out, it's still a decent ramp card. Maybe I've been underestimating it. Turning more of my ramp into creatures would be nice.
I had in altar of dementia before, and I do need a good sac. outlet. It sucks to be in the lead on the battlefield creature wise, but have only a bunch of 1/1's 2/2's and the like. Generally upping the speed/rate at which I can get creatures into the 'yard would be helpful.
The spiketail Drakeling type cards are nice too. Wizard Replica was in my list, but I couldn't find my copy and took it out. I will add one or two or three of these types of creatures. Don't want to over do it in that realm though. Too many repeatable counterspells would probably start putting this deck too far over the top of my playgroup.
I will be looking at that list you put together and using it for future upgrades. Thanks! Hope you're able to pop in more, hopefully build your own The Scarab God list some day!
Had duplicant in before, but it cost too much cmc wise for my current list. I could see it being necessary for a more competitive list.
Further thoughts: I just realized you can counter as many non-creature spells as you have U by having out Glen Elendra archmage and Mikaeus the unhallowed. Glen elendra is another top choice for a card to add, eventually.
One card I could throw in is Ashnod's Altar. I have one copy of it, and could just proxy another copy for this deck. That could help fill the hole that Ancient tomb and mana crypt would more ideally fill. I do want more ramp it seems. There's just never enough mana to do all the things I want to do as fast as I want to do them. Don't get me wrong, I can curve out easily. Like benjameenbear said, I need to get to that "late game" feel going on for the deck asap. Plenty of mana, creatures in the graveyard, and still plenty of cards in hand.
I think this deck would be most competitive as a mostly all in combo deck, with the ability to win through attrition/control. As you had in your list, you could use Walking ballista with Mikaeus and a sac. outlet as a combo. I think it would be wise to still include triskelion. It gives you another chance to combo off if they counterspell your walking ballista or whatever. Also, if the deck was all in combo having one or two cards that returned creatures from the 'yard to the battlefield would be useful. That way if they instant remove a combo piece, you just get another chance to combo off the next turn. Cadaver ImpPhyrexian Delver and Mortuary Mire. Holy crap! I just realized you could search for walking ballista with trinket mage. Yeah, this deck could get truly nasty as a dedicated combo deck with counterspell back up.
Not saying that Arena of the Ancients is bad tech, just that it suits your meta. Can't think of any decks in my area where a legendary permanent is critical to their deck - Commanders notwithstanding (but even then, they're usually green or red and artifact removal is abundant).
@Spiketail Drakeling: I'm kind of ashamed to admit I forgot about this card, even though I considered it for my original list. Seeing as Wizard Replica has been doing some real work for me and it's a strictly worse card, I think I'll add it to my list when I get a chance. I was running the Spiketail Hatchling for a while, but Force Spike isn't enough on a creature.
@Venser, Shaper Savant: I keep forgetting about this guy for some reason. Perfect for my list, since I always aim to leave mana open anyway, and provides a very blue way to temporarily remove problematic artifacts or enchantments (just not Torpor Orb lol).
Without a doubt, The Scarab God could be an impressive combo deck. I prefer to veer away from that route though: with commanders like Dralnu, Lich Lord or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Dimir can achieve combo with good consistency. Dralnu can make finding pieces easier (reuse tutors/graveyard utility) while Grimgrin can itself be a combo piece. SG is, to me at least, a good old-fashioned control finisher. You grind your advantage out of your opponents and kill them with their own Eternalized creatures. Isn't that just lovely?
... And sometimes it feels like everything combos with Mikaeus. lol.
I'd say Arena of the Ancients may not be quite as narrow as y'all think. Note that it says "legends" not legendary creatures. Bye bye Gaea's Cradle, some artifacts, and other legendary creatures that get played. It is narrow, but not totally narrow. I need help beating this dumb jeleva deck, and I just haven't been able to test the card much at all. Keeping for now.
Hey benjameenbear, very grateful for the response! Stoked on the list you provided.
I am on a budget. Basically, I don't ever spend more than $25 dollars on a single card, and that only occasionally. Also, my playgroup already has trouble dealing with the deck, so I don't want to make it too powerful. EDH is about fun for me, and it's not fun if the same person wins all the time. That being said, this deck would make a great competitive commander. (Just realized I still have the competitive tag on this, I'll remove it.) I'm sure the list you put up would actually fall into the truly competitive category. This is my first choice as far as which deck to optimize though. It may actually reach that competitive realm in the next couple of years.
Some of the cards you've recommended I will add to the deck when I can trade for them or afford them, Toxic DelugeTraining Grounds being most notable. Add venser, shaper savant to that list too. I have always been reading this card as only "return target permanent to its owner's hand" and just now noticed the "spell or" part of the card. Now it makes sense why this card is so great.
I have been considering a Haunted Crossroads as a budget volrath's stronghold type effect. My deck currently isn't creature dense enough for that to happen. I think you're right, adding in even more cheap creatures to really up the count would help the deck out.
LOVE Soldevi Adnate and Aphetto Alchemist Nice and cheap $ too without extremely pushing the power level of the deck. Thanks for that type about sacrificing the now black zombie tokens that the god "externalizes". I have hesitated on Crypt Ghast because I'm just not sure how effective it will be. When I think about it though, if I have only one swamp out, it's still a decent ramp card. Maybe I've been underestimating it. Turning more of my ramp into creatures would be nice.
I had in altar of dementia before, and I do need a good sac. outlet. It sucks to be in the lead on the battlefield creature wise, but have only a bunch of 1/1's 2/2's and the like. Generally upping the speed/rate at which I can get creatures into the 'yard would be helpful.
The spiketail Drakeling type cards are nice too. Wizard Replica was in my list, but I couldn't find my copy and took it out. I will add one or two or three of these types of creatures. Don't want to over do it in that realm though. Too many repeatable counterspells would probably start putting this deck too far over the top of my playgroup.
I will be looking at that list you put together and using it for future upgrades. Thanks! Hope you're able to pop in more, hopefully build your own The Scarab God list some day!
Had duplicant in before, but it cost too much cmc wise for my current list. I could see it being necessary for a more competitive list.
Glad to help and provide inspiration where I can. It's important to build your deck to be suitable for your playgroup. My own playgroup is pretty diverse in that my wife, my brother, myself, and one of my friends play together and all decks are geared towards the only deck my wife plays: her Kaalia Stax list (Link is in signature). Every deck is compared as to how well it can do against her Kaalia deck so all of our decks are naturally pretty decent. So when I see "Competitie" in the thread description I think of playing against my wife's optimized Kaalia list.
Yeah, Soldevi Adnate is a pretty awesome find. The synergy it has with The God's tokens is simply magnificent.
I definitely recommend adding more creatures to your deck. It's important to squeeze every drop of value that you can from your own deck before you look to pillage other opponent's 'yards. The list I posted still has a decent number of Wrath effects, thus allowing you great board control, and many of the cards that are in the list are fairly cheap now with several reprints (Sower of Temptation comes to mind, as does Venser). They should be relatively easy acquisitions for you to make.
I'll try and chime in as I can when I'm not maintaining my own lists. I humbly recommend that you check out either my Memnarch Primer or my Kaalia Primer, as it sounds like you might be interested in Commander theory. Both of these Primers have a decent section on Magic theory that I think you would appreciate.
Not saying that Arena of the Ancients is bad tech, just that it suits your meta. Can't think of any decks in my area where a legendary permanent is critical to their deck - Commanders notwithstanding (but even then, they're usually green or red and artifact removal is abundant).
@Spiketail Drakeling: I'm kind of ashamed to admit I forgot about this card, even though I considered it for my original list. Seeing as Wizard Replica has been doing some real work for me and it's a strictly worse card, I think I'll add it to my list when I get a chance. I was running the Spiketail Hatchling for a while, but Force Spike isn't enough on a creature.
@Venser, Shaper Savant: I keep forgetting about this guy for some reason. Perfect for my list, since I always aim to leave mana open anyway, and provides a very blue way to temporarily remove problematic artifacts or enchantments (just not Torpor Orb lol).
Without a doubt, The Scarab God could be an impressive combo deck. I prefer to veer away from that route though: with commanders like Dralnu, Lich Lord or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Dimir can achieve combo with good consistency. Dralnu can make finding pieces easier (reuse tutors/graveyard utility) while Grimgrin can itself be a combo piece. SG is, to me at least, a good old-fashioned control finisher. You grind your advantage out of your opponents and kill them with their own Eternalized creatures. Isn't that just lovely?
... And sometimes it feels like everything combos with Mikaeus. lol.
Yeah, I'm a Dimir mage through and through. I have a (basically) mono-Black casual deck helmed by Grimgrin and an uber competitive Dralnu Storm deck (decklist is in my sig). They're both a ton of fun and very enjoyable for me to play with. My Grimgrin deck could easily be helmed by The God instead without any great loss of effectiveness, so it's nice to be able to interchange the Commanders to keep things fresh.
Yeah, Mikaeus is really, really good. The Undying mechanic is really strong and has so many uses in Commander.
Glad I could point you towards the cards you've forgotten! That's what these threads are for.
Yeah, I'm a Dimir mage through and through. I have a (basically) mono-Black casual deck helmed by Grimgrin and an uber competitive Dralnu Storm deck (decklist is in my sig). They're both a ton of fun and very enjoyable for me to play with. My Grimgrin deck could easily be helmed by The God instead without any great loss of effectiveness, so it's nice to be able to interchange the Commanders to keep things fresh.
Yeah, Mikaeus is really, really good. The Undying mechanic is really strong and has so many uses in Commander.
Glad I could point you towards the cards you've forgotten! That's what these threads are for.
Grixis here, though admittedly my primary colors are Dimir. My problem is ever since I started playing Commander, I've gotten very... Particular with the types of decks I build? That and I prefer to build every deck from scratch, going from one iteration to the next until I grow bored or strike a balance. I'm guessing that Grimgrin is a Zombie-Tribal? And Dralnu is a lot of fun, once you get sequencing down pat. I'll have to look at your list for that later.
Mikaeus could use a reprint. Please, Wizards, I'd play him more if he didn't have the $30 price tag.
It's why I don't mind being a fool on these forums; getting the overlooked gems makes it a win! Lol
My GrimGrin deck is secretly a mono-Black deck. It has only 7 blue cards in the deck so that I can maximize the Cabal Coffers type cards in the deck and not have to split up too many of my decks for card pieces. I had a bunch of leftover Black cards after I dismantled my Chainer deck (list is in my Tasigur thread) and I wanted to put together a mono-Black deck to represent my philosophy as a player.
My Grimgrin list is heavier on the Reanimation theme, since Grimgrin has no built-in Reanimation effect like The God, and also focuses on sacrifice based synergies. Gravecrawler, Zulaport Cutthroat, and Havengul Lich are some examples of this. I'm also playing Lich's Mastery because I can and want to, so the deck is skewed slightly towards making the Mastery as useful as possible. Can you feel the casualness yet? Haha. It's slow to get off the ground but is really quite hard to disrupt once it gets going, similar to how I imagine this list is.
I'd say Arena of the Ancients may not be quite as narrow as y'all think. Note that it says "legends" not legendary creatures. Bye bye Gaea's Cradle, some artifacts, and other legendary creatures that get played. It is narrow, but not totally narrow. I need help beating this dumb jeleva deck, and I just haven't been able to test the card much at all. Keeping for now.
Hey benjameenbear, very grateful for the response! Stoked on the list you provided.
I am on a budget. Basically, I don't ever spend more than $25 dollars on a single card, and that only occasionally. Also, my playgroup already has trouble dealing with the deck, so I don't want to make it too powerful. EDH is about fun for me, and it's not fun if the same person wins all the time. That being said, this deck would make a great competitive commander. (Just realized I still have the competitive tag on this, I'll remove it.) I'm sure the list you put up would actually fall into the truly competitive category. This is my first choice as far as which deck to optimize though. It may actually reach that competitive realm in the next couple of years.
Some of the cards you've recommended I will add to the deck when I can trade for them or afford them, Toxic DelugeTraining Grounds being most notable. Add venser, shaper savant to that list too. I have always been reading this card as only "return target permanent to its owner's hand" and just now noticed the "spell or" part of the card. Now it makes sense why this card is so great.
I have been considering a Haunted Crossroads as a budget volrath's stronghold type effect. My deck currently isn't creature dense enough for that to happen. I think you're right, adding in even more cheap creatures to really up the count would help the deck out.
LOVE Soldevi Adnate and Aphetto Alchemist Nice and cheap $ too without extremely pushing the power level of the deck. Thanks for that type about sacrificing the now black zombie tokens that the god "externalizes". I have hesitated on Crypt Ghast because I'm just not sure how effective it will be. When I think about it though, if I have only one swamp out, it's still a decent ramp card. Maybe I've been underestimating it. Turning more of my ramp into creatures would be nice.
I had in altar of dementia before, and I do need a good sac. outlet. It sucks to be in the lead on the battlefield creature wise, but have only a bunch of 1/1's 2/2's and the like. Generally upping the speed/rate at which I can get creatures into the 'yard would be helpful.
The spiketail Drakeling type cards are nice too. Wizard Replica was in my list, but I couldn't find my copy and took it out. I will add one or two or three of these types of creatures. Don't want to over do it in that realm though. Too many repeatable counterspells would probably start putting this deck too far over the top of my playgroup.
I will be looking at that list you put together and using it for future upgrades. Thanks! Hope you're able to pop in more, hopefully build your own The Scarab God list some day!
Had duplicant in before, but it cost too much cmc wise for my current list. I could see it being necessary for a more competitive list.
The oracle text on Arena of the Ancients has been updated to state that it only affects creatures unfortunately. Veneer has been very helpful in my deck, especially if people forget that he is in my yard. He is also one of the few pieces of planes walker removal we run and the threat of him is usually enough to persuade a negative ultimate (think Ajani Vengeant) from heading my direction without having to expend resources.
Depending on the number of wizards you run, Voidmage Prodigy and Patron Wizard could be very powerful (on their own, they are a hard counter spell and a repeatable Force Spike, though Patron Wizard's price has been climbing lately. The two things I like about the spike tails over the Wizard Replica is that the former is not an artifact (as there is no artifact synergies in the deck) and hence just more vulnerable to removal and that it requires an additional mana to activate.
I guess my other issue is that I am probably more of an Azorius mage given that I prefer prison strategies and will usually throw 3-6 cards in my deck designed to hose strategies that can give me trouble (e.g. Overburden and Land Equilibrium) and warp the table so that the other players have to play the game on my deck's rules.
Given the sac effects in your other lists, would Grave Pact style effects be helpful to keep opposing boards clear? How about Attrition as a potential sac outlet?
Muhahaha! This card makes my inner evil genius happy: Fatespinner paragonweapon's comment about prison strategies made me hearken back to this card! I have only played against it so far, and it's a real kick in the nuts when an opponent drops this bad girl down. Perfect for this deck list, where we are attempting to attrition/slow down the plan of our opponents. It could prove especially useful for you Grimoire in that aggro happy meta of yours. I don't believe this card has been bandied about yet.
I forgot about Wizard Replica's one cost mana activation. Personally, I'd be fine with someone using their artifact removal on this. I'm going to make them to pay an extra 2 for it, which will slow down the rest of their turn. I'd rather they hit this than a mana rock of mine. Additionally, using removal on this isn't even a 1 for 1 in my eyes, because we just pay 4 and it comes back much stronger. Considering they pay and extra 2 for their spell, I'd say that's a 1.2 for .5 card trade in our favor. Also, an opponent should intuit that we won't attempt to counterspell their artifact removal if they point it away from us. Can give them a quick reminder, they might change their mind. That type of political strategy has worked for me before multiple times.
Attrition Now we're talking! Love this card, and pretty cheap $ for the potential it has in this deck.
Gravepact is good, but don't have one. I have Dictate of Erebos which I've been considering putting back into the deck. We'll see if I find room for it.
Thanks for the Arena of the ancients update. I didn't realized it had been updated rules wise.
benjameenbear, thanks for the insights. Would love for you and everyone else to pop in when you have a chance. Very stoked on everyone getting excited about the Scarab God. Thanks for giving this formerly lonely thread some traffic. I'll take a look at that Memnarch thread for some game theory info.
My GrimGrin deck is secretly a mono-Black deck. It has only 7 blue cards in the deck so that I can maximize the Cabal Coffers type cards in the deck and not have to split up too many of my decks for card pieces. I had a bunch of leftover Black cards after I dismantled my Chainer deck (list is in my Tasigur thread) and I wanted to put together a mono-Black deck to represent my philosophy as a player.
My Grimgrin list is heavier on the Reanimation theme, since Grimgrin has no built-in Reanimation effect like The God, and also focuses on sacrifice based synergies. Gravecrawler, Zulaport Cutthroat, and Havengul Lich are some examples of this. I'm also playing Lich's Mastery because I can and want to, so the deck is skewed slightly towards making the Mastery as useful as possible. Can you feel the casualness yet? Haha. It's slow to get off the ground but is really quite hard to disrupt once it gets going, similar to how I imagine this list is.
It sounds like a blast though! Having a "gimmick" deck is great sometimes because people underestimate it, or let you sit uncontested for too long, and by then your entire plan is online. Personally, I've got a monoB Josu Vess, Lich Knight deck... based solely on using Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, an enabler, and mana reducers to repeatedly cast small black creatures for value. It's great.
@Fatespinner: Again, a card I originally considered and forgot about. It's greatest strength? It only hits opponents, and it takes effect almost immediately. Demands removal or seriously hinders opponents. I think I originally dismissed it because I was aiming to make the deck more casual, but as I keep experimenting, the list gets more disruptive.
On-board counterspells are incredibly powerful. It deters even smart opponents from trying to remove your threats unless they have an overwhelming advantage (in mana or cards). Just the sight of a counter is often enough to prevent people from casting spells, and I love it.
The more sac outlets I add to the deck, the more I consider Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos. They were recommended to me by JJ not too long ago, and I still don't think I want them in my list, but I may experiment with them at some point. Attrition is a great card and I'd love to play it, but I play against many Black decks. Still a nice consideration.
I guess my other issue is that I am probably more of an Azorius mage given that I prefer prison strategies and will usually throw 3-6 cards in my deck designed to hose strategies that can give me trouble (e.g. Overburden and Land Equilibrium) and warp the table so that the other players have to play the game on my deck's rules.
Which is a perfectly valid way to play. I play with friends a lot too though, and their decks are more on the casual side, so I wanted my build to have a nice balance. Just depends on who you're up against, really.
Spoilers have produced one interesting card so far: Dream Eater. (Kudos to mtgsalvation for already having the card tag available for preview card!) Another card worth mentioning at least is Quasiduplicate. Not sure this one has potential, but being able to discard a creature card or land to reuse from the graveyard seems decent.
Dream Eater seems expensive at first, but the more I think about it the more I like it. This card looks like 3 spells to me. A creature, a bounce spell and card filtering spell. The fact that it has flash puts it over the top. The 6 mana is a high price tag, however flash makes it okay in my opinion. My thinking is, just wait until the God is out to play this card. Leave 6 mana open, play this if you need to at the end step right before your turn starts. Or, resurrect a different creature from the graveyard if need be and still have mana up for a counterspell, vampiric tutor or pongify. The fun part is, if you do play it on that last endstep before your turn starts, you stand a decent chance of getting a new creature into the yard through the surveil ability before your turn starts. Then you have a potential wild card creature in your 'yard no one expected to be there. You can use this defensively too if someone attacks you with a high power creature.
On that note, there is an interesting trend showing up in my play with this deck. I wait until the late game, when the god has plenty of targets in the 'yard. Ideally, my opponents are pretty low on cards and creature presence at that point. Having 8 mana available makes this play even more ideal.
I leave up my 8 mana until this last end step before my turn. Then "externalize" 2 creatures. On my upkeep, externalize 2 more. Now I'm draining opponents for 4 life, and have 2 "haste" creatures that I can attack with. This move seems to be a winning formula for the deck. The tricky part is surviving that long. The amount of actions I take, and use of the stack almost makes it feel like taking 2 turns in a row. I realized I had to start playing faster because I was doing so much during my turn!
Part of what I love about playing this deck is it's ability to adapt to the game state. As long as we have a few cards in the 'yard and the god out, we are always prepared to play defensively, or offensively.
My favorite part about Dream Eater: It's a Nightmare Sphinx. But it's definitely showing a direction I would like with the Surveil mechanic. With Surveil 4, you could dig through a land clump or dump utility creatures into your graveyard. It being an ETB helps too - reanimating it with the God is gravy. The Flash is what intrigues me though. I've been removing Flash creatures from this deck - but this one is targeted interaction, with another ability, and evasion tacked onto it.
Huh, I play a bit differently. Unless I have a need for a particular creature during my turn/upkeep, I typically leave some creatures be in graveyards. Threatening to reanimate them at instant speed is something people seem to forget frequently, or avoid attacking entirely out of fear (without checking graveyards, even). The few times I've used SG on upkeep was because graveyards were plentiful and/or my opponents were at low life totals.
I see what you're saying. I am talking about those times when I've turned the tide of the game. My opponents may not be at low health, but I doubt their abilities to seriously hinder my plan. Saving up the utility creatures for later is great. There is a bit of a triage system where I "externalize" creatures I care less about out of my opponent's graveyards first.
My philosophy is this: Fill up my 'yard and opponents 'yards early. Then externalize creatures as needed. I do prefer to get the draining of life through zombies started at least a little bit in the mid game. At the same time, cards in my hand are getting saved up for later. The cards in hand are unknown, while the creatures in the 'yard are known. It is a dance between keeping the hand full, while still having at least 1 decent target in the 'yard.
The ability to scry 4 in a turn is not to be overlooked. We just dig for answers or the most powerful card at that point. It's easy to overlook scrying deep into the deck, but it's probably a greater advantage than the life loss. In the late game, if you can scry at least 2 per turn, you stand a good chance of scrying away unwanted lands. The ability to practically guarantee skipping over lands for your draw is a huge advantage over the opponents. I like the 1-2 punch of externalizing on the end step and the upkeep when we start to go on the offensive. On a related note, I like resurrecting flying creatures asap if there is a lack of flying on the board. That 4 damage a turn really adds up in a deck that is usually unable to deal a whole ton of damage at once.
It could be as simple as my meta has more creatures in it than yours, therefore I'm more likely to have plenty of targets in the graveyard.
Part of the God's greatness is the incredible amount of options we have available to us at any time. It's part of the adaptability of the deck, and why it's so fun. Don't get me wrong, I'll stash away a removal on a stick for later use if it's not needed in the moment. I see your point about saving something for later.
Also, remember how I was talking about Surveil on my thread the other day? I got what I asked for. Rain of Notions is a better Read the Bones for us.
To add to the conversation though: 4 feels like the event horizon for the deck. Once you have 4 or more Zombies with the Upkeep trigger, it absolutely demands a response. Not disagreeing with that at all, just doing so on my own upkeep.
Definitely doesn't help that my meta is varied. Some games have nothing but creatures. Others? All spellslinger/combo/control decks. It's a mixed bag, but there are usually a few targets, so I try not to overextend since I do consider them resources.
There's a whole bunch of really cool cards for Dimir that have been spoiled. Perhaps the one I'm most interested in is the new Lazav.
While it's pretty obvious to jam in Phyrexian Dreadnought or Phage the Untouchable with Lazav and lol all the way to the win, I think Lazav is actually a really good way to get additional mileage out of good and well-costed static effect creates. Cards like Graveborn Muse, FAtespinner, or Grave Titan are not bad to have second copies of, especially since Lazav doesn't compete with The God's "externalize" ability (love that phrase, by the by).
I don't think Lazav is too good for this deck. My creatures mostly use etb effects, which he doesn't help with. I don't believe having out two copies of fatespinner at once does anything, because they are free to make the same choice twice.
Rain of notions definitely goes into the list. You got your wish perfectly grimoire!
Updated the list. Been taking some tips from Benjameenbear's list. Upped the creature count by quite a bit. The deck definitely wanted more creatures. Switched some non-creature tutors into to creatures that tutor. Added Liliana of the veil. I already have a copy, and she's exactly what this deck wants to be doing.
Added meteor golem. With the amount of tutors and card draw in this deck, I should be able to find him if needed in most cases. A new regular to hit with Buried Alive. In solo testing, soldevi adnate is crazy.
Lazav, the Multifarious seems like something I'd definitely make a casual build of. Love good ol' fashioned trickery like that, though he reminds me very much of a red-less Mairsil, the Pretender. His flexibility with low cmc creatures will be where he shines though - Once you're copying creatures that cost 4+ mana, you may as well be reanimating them in my opinion. Fairly certain Ben was just talking about the card in general, by the way, not as an inclusion for The Scarab God.
Your new build is looking good, JJ. Although maybe you should organize it by card types, then function? It's a pain, but I did it when I updated my list and it makes it look much cleaner.
And I do have to ask how your cantrip creatures have been working out? I almost feel like you should have a Panharmonicon with the number in your list, really. For instance, I thought Skyscanner was a good catch from M19, but I ended up taking it right back out to put other, better suited cards in (or so I felt). 3 mana for a 1/1 with "draw a card" didn't feel too good to me. But if you went all in on the sac, it could make more sense.
Definitely feels more like your build is moving towards combo/control, given your number of tutors and various pieces. Whereas mine shows my bias for straight Control - I want to throttle my opponents and win on my own time.
I played another game last night, and won. The Scarab God is 4-0 for wins since I upgraded it. My opponent put this 7 cost enchantment on me turn 3. It enchanted me only and had "At the beginning of enchanted player upkeep, that player may sacrifice a creature. If they don't, they lose 5 life." Luckily, I had enough creatures that I could usually sac. 1 a turn. I got Rune-scarred demon and searched up my combo. Took a while, but it worked!
I tend to play the deck as control/long game. I reach for the combo if I feel there is no other way for me to win, or the game has gone on for too long is at a stale-mate for a few turns. Even in the above scenario, I was going to search up Meteor golem initially to take out the enchantment rather than combo off. I just forgot to put that card in! LOL. Anyway, I'm definitely not trying to maximize the combo. aspect of the deck, it would be built different if I were. I find comboing off to be boring usually. It's just nice to have a trick up the sleeve.
The sacrifice isn't really a theme so much. All the cards are in there for things besides their sacrificing potential. I only need to sac. like 1 or 2 creatures to get the 'yard primed, if that. Or a may not need to sac. any at all if I can just block. I'm not looking at add more sac. outlets, though High Market does seem like a good choice if I feel like I need another. My playgroup doesn't often try to gain control of or Imprisoned in the moon the god, thus depriving me of it. If they wise up, more instant speed no cost sac. outlets will be considered.
I love the can trip creatures. These are the bread-and-butter of my creature base in my opinion. I want creatures out asap so they can start getting into the 'yard. Because of them, my hand rarely goes down below 4 cards even in the late game. In the early-mid game my hand rarely goes down below 5-6, and can stay at 7 for quite a while most games. Later after they've died, they still fill up your hand when "externalized." They are just fodder creatures to dig me to better cards and make sure I hit land drops all game long. I find my deck really wants to keep hitting land drops, even if I played an early sol ring for instance. The faster we get to 8 mana the better in my opinion. I want to start "externalizing' 2 creatures at once asap. I find that sometimes my deck is doing so well with all the creatures/tutoring/boardwiping that the God doesn't come out at all until I hit 9 mana so I can play it, and have enough mana for an activation. Having a plethora of cheap creatures, especially the can trip variety helps a lot with this. These little guys also help a lot with avoiding mulligans. Keep 2 land hands sometimes, even without ramp, if I have a couple of these bad boys in hand. While they aren't impressive, they serve a crucial function in my deck. Skyscanner is a terrible edh card on it's own. When resurrected though, you get a 4/4 flyer and another card for 4 mana, plus probably drain some life away and scry. When you look at it like that, it's pretty amazing.
Simultaneously, I am now running fewer non-creature draw card spells and doing fine without them. It's all about squeezing in as many creatures as possible while maintaining the consistency of the deck. I like being able to play out a bunch of creatures early game to deter attacks. Then feel fine boardwiping away the first 1-4 creatures I played out around turn 5-6 because I already received my value from them.
At first I was going to say I don't want Panharmonicon because it's not a creature. You're right though. I've reached a critical mass of etb creatures and this would be amazing. I'll grab one when I get a chance.
ERMER GERD!!! Just found some super cool tech, that may be better than sac. outlets. Could be useful for you too Grimoire, if you're trying to save your commander from constant threats. Crystal shard and Erratic Portal. Not only can you save your commander, you can just start returning Ravenous chupacabra type creatures to your hand for tons of etb effects. Not only that, these cards switch to offense when need by. If an opponent plays a high cmc creature, they will be forced to leave up a mana or risk having to pay the mana to play it out again. Very tricky.
Also, Dead eye navigator is a creature that can do similar things. I think I like the artifacts better though, due to their lesser cmc and activation costs.
Cruel Reality, huh? Funny card, I've never seen anyone try to play it in Commander here. Except me with a jank pile once, it didn't do anything impressive.
I partially mentioned sacrifice as a theme because I noticed two differences between our lists: You included Skullclamp, but you also have significantly less Instant-Speed interaction (removal/counterspells). Relying on smaller creatures makes sense when you cantrip them, then kill them for additional draw - I found I was using them to help cycle through my deck faster. Seems to be a difference of preference, playstyle, or the people we play with - I realized I never wanted to cast Skyscanner for 3 mana (it felt better to hold up mana to threaten a response). I'm not disagreeing that our God can take trash creatures and make them better - but it doesn't make them any better on their own. I learned from experience with another deck of mine that I tend to get punished for playing too many of the cantrip creatures without doing, or threatening, something.
Guessing you got reminded by the discussion surrounding Etrata, the Silencer? She looks just silly enough for me to build. Crystal Shard and Erratic Portal could work in The Scarab God, but I think you underestimate Deadeye Navigator. While a steep initial cost (or not, if you Eternalize it), the Soulbond allows you to repeat any ETB at your leisure for 1U.
Cruel Reality is a funny card to be sure, but dangerous when it hits you turn 3 after you played Phyrexian arena. Oh, yeah, skullclamp with these can trippers is ridiculous. I will often search up skullclamp with trinket mage early in the game for that reason.
In past discussions, it sounded like your meta was faster and more powerful. I probably have more time to set up my board before the game gets really interesting. I mean, if you feel the need to hold up counterspells/creature removal on turn 3 or 4 just to get by, I say damn! That does sound like a beastly meta. In my games, no one is doing anything threatening the first few turns, probably just some ramp or some stupid chump creature. Are people cheating in Blightsteel colossus in turn 3 in your meta or what? Do you need to have answers to infinite combos ready? My meta doesn't have any besides mine. In the mid/late game you should have the mana up to be able to play Skyscanner plus a counterspell/removal, so no harm done.
I find my deck does fine reacting at sorcery speed most of the time. If someone plays a big creature, they won't get to swing with until their next turn usually. So I just play chupacabra, or Fleshbag maruader or something on my next turn to get rid of it. They didn't get to attack me with it, so I don't care if it's removed at sorcery speed. At the same time, if an opponent does attack me with a big creature, but I have tons of chump blockers, that doesn't cause me much harm either, and is probably helping me out by giving me some 'yard fodder.
You can't discount the card you draw into from skyscanner either. If I play scanner and draw a vampiric tutor off of it, scanner did a really good job. Even drawing another land off of it is usually good enough early game. I don't have to worry about not being able to use my god on it usually. My opponents just aren't that good at taking the god out. I rarely have it go back to the command zone more than once in a game, often times not at all. The way I see it, if you draw enough cards it ups the consistency of the deck, especially when you have enough tutors. I built the deck with only 5 boardwipes. I also built the deck so that I will consistently draw into one, or at least draw into a tutor by mid game. Most times, I can reliably get a board wipe into hand by turn 5/6/7. This is crucial for my deck, and the cantripping helps me get there.
It's also hard to comprehend all of the synergy surrounding these cantrip creatures, but it's there. It's not just the synergy from the god. It's synergy with self-discard effects, skullclamp as you pointed out, the self-sacrifice creatures like Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Soldevi Adnate, the possible new addition of Midnight Reaper, Liliana of the veil, Fact or fiction, Notion Rain, Dream eaterAshnod's Altar (recently put in ashnod's instead of Phyrexian altar) and on. My deck used to run 27 creatures. Now that it's up to 35, it's hitting that critical mass where all of the above mentioned cards will usually have good synergy due to the mass number of creatures. Even your boardwipes get better when you have more creatures. Soldevi adnate alongside Ashnod's altar is ridiculous with a bunch of creatures. These cards lead to surprising jump-starts mid game where you can play a huge creature out, or play the god, plus sac. a creature to "externalize" a creature the same turn the god comes out by jumping ahead on mana. You need a plethora of low cmc creatures you don't mind sacrificing to do it though.
My gameplan is usually all about "durdling around" as my friend puts it, in the early game. Just ramp, and play cantrip or discard creatures like Miasmic mummy. Wait until my opponents have extended a lot of resources into playing creatures out, then board wipe. Or, play a well time Fleshbag Marauder that will hit all of my opponent's first and only creatures they put out. Now they have nothing to threaten me with, so I keep "durdling" saving up resources for later. I keep using my hand until my opponents are low on cards and creatures. Then use the god to develop a huge board, and refill my hand in the process. It's this dance of resources that is hard for my opponents to beat. I end up having the most resources at my disposal by far in late game. That's how I built this deck to win, with the possibility of comboing out.
The cantripping into combo pieces is also a part of the synergy of these cards. The combo is also a reason I want to keep hitting land drops all game long. I need 12 mana to do it in one turn. Or 10 mana by "externalizing" Mikaues, then playing Triskelion. Fortunately, my deck doesn't seem to have much of a problem carrying itself into the point where I have that much mana.
If my opponents are really threatening me early, and I don't have chump blockers out, I'll use the god as a defensive last resort. The god is a pretty significant stat. wise, and can be a repeatable chump blocker to a huge creature if need be.
Almost forgot to mention: Wurmcoil Engine + Mikaeus, the unhallowed on the field is ridiculous. Had the pleasure of busting that out the other day. It's nice to have that kind of army in a can style battlefield after boardwiping.
In past discussions, it sounded like your meta was faster and more powerful. I probably have more time to set up my board before the game gets really interesting. I mean, if you feel the need to hold up counterspells/creature removal on turn 3 or 4 just to get by, I say damn! That does sound like a beastly meta. In my games, no one is doing anything threatening the first few turns, probably just some ramp or some stupid chump creature. Are people cheating in Blightsteel colossus in turn 3 in your meta or what? Do you need to have answers to infinite combos ready? My meta doesn't have any besides mine. In the mid/late game you should have the mana up to be able to play Skyscanner plus a counterspell/removal, so no harm done.
It's a mix of both, I'd say - your meta sounds very battlecrusier and I miss that sometimes. Since there's a large variety of decks in my area, each angling at winning in different ways, I have to expect people to be dishing out real damage or attacking resources by turns 4-8 depending on the deck. Combo is a minority here - but if I get sat down with an Edgar Markov, Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa + Partner or god forbid Animar, Soul of Elements, I need to have enough wipes or early responses to prevent them from reaching critical mass and running me over. Whereas sometimes I may sit down with Atraxa, Praetor's Voice, Keranos, God of Storms, Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, or monoB Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. People like synergy around here, so if any of the new Enchantress Commanders, Inalla, Archmage Ritualist, or Lathliss, Dragon Queen manage to stick any of their key pieces down, the fight gets that much harder. The difference between our metas, I believe, is that tempo is the key factor of mine - whoever manages to accumulate an advantage early on has a better chance to beat their primary threats. Something typically happens every turn (not so much dead space as preparation) - we either ramp, develop our boardstate, or hinder someone else from doing so.
I completely agree that the cantrip creatures are a fun and effective way to utilize The Scarab God. Honest truth: I'm a Grixis player at heart. Everything I ever want to do is in Grixis colors, Dimir being among my favorite. Reanimation, Sacrifice, Control - my bread and butter. I'm on your page as far as why you enjoy where your build is going - it just hasn't quite worked for me. The Scarab God is naturally very powerful because of it's adaptability.
A secondary challenge I face is I want my build Focused, efficient, good even - but I want to be able to play it against more casual decks, hence why I've removed combo and limit tutors. I rather enjoy grinding people out over a few turns, making them watch the God drain their life away in larger chunks each time.
Also, something you might like, because I know I did: a 3rd Fleshbag effect was just spoiled for GRN.
Plaguecrafter is the best fleshbag effect too! Hits people without creatures which is ridiculous. Guilds of Ravnica has been too kind to us. So many new toys, and they threw in another good one at the last second of spoilers!
The hilariously named Burglar Rat. This is the only 2 drop creature that I know of that has a hits all opponents hands without hitting us too. It either replaces Miasmic Mummy or runs alongside it. This guy is really making me consider going more into the discard strategy. I picked up Cackling Fiend the other day too, which only encourages me more. I think if I went further into the discard strategy my deck would just straight bulldoze most everything in my playgroup. Especially alongside 3 fleshbag marauder effects.
I see what you're saying about your playstyle/focus for your deck Grimoire. Now I do remember you mentioning earlier that you weren't trying to optimize/make the most competitive list possible. It also makes sense why you you want so many counterspells too. Cool that you added Venser to your list, it should help.
I'm trying to optimize my deck for competitive play, as cheaply as possible. I want something that's going to stand up to fiercer metas than my own. If my deck keeps winning in my meta, I'll start offering to play archenemy style vs. my playgroup. Take on 2 or 3 players working together vs. my deck. That way I can keep optimizing and make it still fun for my playgroup. Otherwise, I'll play other lesser decks. Or maybe start rebuilding the fun zombie tribal deck for the god.
I missed Burglar Rat! So many new toys - if I make space for it, I'm getting to the point where I'll need to add Geth's Grimoire. Strangely enough, ever since converting my mill to discard, I haven't actually drawn much of it. I'm going to need a foil playset of Plaguecrafter, because that one is going in most decks I build from now on.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your meta made up of? You've mentioned a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge player on a few occasions, but I'm not sure what else you go up against.
Back to it after a long hiatus. Major upgrades going on with the deck. First to mention is a really evil, ridiculous, and possibly amazing card that was spoiled for our deck: Awaken the erstwhile. This normally "fair but annoying" card becomes a wincon in our deck. Just play this asap then play the scarab god and watch our opponents cry as they loose 3-5 life per turn, with no ability to boardwipe us, while also giving us extra targets to hit with the scarab god. That is ******* nasty and it will probably be going into my deck.
The new list still is all about resource denial and amassing more resources on our side. Significant upgrades since you last saw it, including
The deck should really start to earn it's competitive title now.
There is a lot more synergy added to the deck's theme of draining away all of our opponent's resources at once. Also plenty more low cmc creatures to start priming the graveyard early if people attack us early. A lack of early plays was noticeable before.
Gravepact and Dictate of Erebos combined with etb each opponent sacs a creature etb is ridiculous. Imagine having one of these out, then playing Plaguecrafter each opponent sacs. 2 creatures for 3 mana, if you have 4 more mana you can instantly "externalize" plaguecrafter the same turn, making the opponents sac. an additional 2 creatures. 7 mana with the god and these cards leads to each opponent sacrificing 4 creatures in one turn. Now that's some resource denial! Anyway, these cards should do fine without entering "Christmas land" since they really dissuade opponents from attacking us as well since we nearly always have creatures on the board.
While some of the cards look a bit janky and underwhelming (Miasmic Mummy?) I believe the synergy combined with the god's "externalize" ability will truly make this a deck that can take on everyone at the table at once. Can't wait to get games in with the new list. Expect a report in the next week on how it works out.
Hey benjameenbear, very grateful for the response! Stoked on the list you provided.
I am on a budget. Basically, I don't ever spend more than $25 dollars on a single card, and that only occasionally. Also, my playgroup already has trouble dealing with the deck, so I don't want to make it too powerful. EDH is about fun for me, and it's not fun if the same person wins all the time. That being said, this deck would make a great competitive commander. (Just realized I still have the competitive tag on this, I'll remove it.) I'm sure the list you put up would actually fall into the truly competitive category. This is my first choice as far as which deck to optimize though. It may actually reach that competitive realm in the next couple of years.
Some of the cards you've recommended I will add to the deck when I can trade for them or afford them, Toxic Deluge Training Grounds being most notable. Add venser, shaper savant to that list too. I have always been reading this card as only "return target permanent to its owner's hand" and just now noticed the "spell or" part of the card. Now it makes sense why this card is so great.
I have been considering a Haunted Crossroads as a budget volrath's stronghold type effect. My deck currently isn't creature dense enough for that to happen. I think you're right, adding in even more cheap creatures to really up the count would help the deck out.
LOVE Soldevi Adnate and Aphetto Alchemist Nice and cheap $ too without extremely pushing the power level of the deck. Thanks for that type about sacrificing the now black zombie tokens that the god "externalizes". I have hesitated on Crypt Ghast because I'm just not sure how effective it will be. When I think about it though, if I have only one swamp out, it's still a decent ramp card. Maybe I've been underestimating it. Turning more of my ramp into creatures would be nice.
I had in altar of dementia before, and I do need a good sac. outlet. It sucks to be in the lead on the battlefield creature wise, but have only a bunch of 1/1's 2/2's and the like. Generally upping the speed/rate at which I can get creatures into the 'yard would be helpful.
The spiketail Drakeling type cards are nice too. Wizard Replica was in my list, but I couldn't find my copy and took it out. I will add one or two or three of these types of creatures. Don't want to over do it in that realm though. Too many repeatable counterspells would probably start putting this deck too far over the top of my playgroup.
I will be looking at that list you put together and using it for future upgrades. Thanks! Hope you're able to pop in more, hopefully build your own The Scarab God list some day!
Had duplicant in before, but it cost too much cmc wise for my current list. I could see it being necessary for a more competitive list.
One card I could throw in is Ashnod's Altar. I have one copy of it, and could just proxy another copy for this deck. That could help fill the hole that Ancient tomb and mana crypt would more ideally fill. I do want more ramp it seems. There's just never enough mana to do all the things I want to do as fast as I want to do them. Don't get me wrong, I can curve out easily. Like benjameenbear said, I need to get to that "late game" feel going on for the deck asap. Plenty of mana, creatures in the graveyard, and still plenty of cards in hand.
I think this deck would be most competitive as a mostly all in combo deck, with the ability to win through attrition/control. As you had in your list, you could use Walking ballista with Mikaeus and a sac. outlet as a combo. I think it would be wise to still include triskelion. It gives you another chance to combo off if they counterspell your walking ballista or whatever. Also, if the deck was all in combo having one or two cards that returned creatures from the 'yard to the battlefield would be useful. That way if they instant remove a combo piece, you just get another chance to combo off the next turn. Cadaver Imp Phyrexian Delver and Mortuary Mire. Holy crap! I just realized you could search for walking ballista with trinket mage. Yeah, this deck could get truly nasty as a dedicated combo deck with counterspell back up.
@Spiketail Drakeling: I'm kind of ashamed to admit I forgot about this card, even though I considered it for my original list. Seeing as Wizard Replica has been doing some real work for me and it's a strictly worse card, I think I'll add it to my list when I get a chance. I was running the Spiketail Hatchling for a while, but Force Spike isn't enough on a creature.
@Venser, Shaper Savant: I keep forgetting about this guy for some reason. Perfect for my list, since I always aim to leave mana open anyway, and provides a very blue way to temporarily remove problematic artifacts or enchantments (just not Torpor Orb lol).
Without a doubt, The Scarab God could be an impressive combo deck. I prefer to veer away from that route though: with commanders like Dralnu, Lich Lord or Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Dimir can achieve combo with good consistency. Dralnu can make finding pieces easier (reuse tutors/graveyard utility) while Grimgrin can itself be a combo piece. SG is, to me at least, a good old-fashioned control finisher. You grind your advantage out of your opponents and kill them with their own Eternalized creatures. Isn't that just lovely?
... And sometimes it feels like everything combos with Mikaeus. lol.
Glad to help and provide inspiration where I can. It's important to build your deck to be suitable for your playgroup. My own playgroup is pretty diverse in that my wife, my brother, myself, and one of my friends play together and all decks are geared towards the only deck my wife plays: her Kaalia Stax list (Link is in signature). Every deck is compared as to how well it can do against her Kaalia deck so all of our decks are naturally pretty decent. So when I see "Competitie" in the thread description I think of playing against my wife's optimized Kaalia list.
Yeah, Soldevi Adnate is a pretty awesome find. The synergy it has with The God's tokens is simply magnificent.
I definitely recommend adding more creatures to your deck. It's important to squeeze every drop of value that you can from your own deck before you look to pillage other opponent's 'yards. The list I posted still has a decent number of Wrath effects, thus allowing you great board control, and many of the cards that are in the list are fairly cheap now with several reprints (Sower of Temptation comes to mind, as does Venser). They should be relatively easy acquisitions for you to make.
I'll try and chime in as I can when I'm not maintaining my own lists. I humbly recommend that you check out either my Memnarch Primer or my Kaalia Primer, as it sounds like you might be interested in Commander theory. Both of these Primers have a decent section on Magic theory that I think you would appreciate.
Yeah, I'm a Dimir mage through and through. I have a (basically) mono-Black casual deck helmed by Grimgrin and an uber competitive Dralnu Storm deck (decklist is in my sig). They're both a ton of fun and very enjoyable for me to play with. My Grimgrin deck could easily be helmed by The God instead without any great loss of effectiveness, so it's nice to be able to interchange the Commanders to keep things fresh.
Yeah, Mikaeus is really, really good. The Undying mechanic is really strong and has so many uses in Commander.
Glad I could point you towards the cards you've forgotten! That's what these threads are for.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Grixis here, though admittedly my primary colors are Dimir. My problem is ever since I started playing Commander, I've gotten very... Particular with the types of decks I build? That and I prefer to build every deck from scratch, going from one iteration to the next until I grow bored or strike a balance. I'm guessing that Grimgrin is a Zombie-Tribal? And Dralnu is a lot of fun, once you get sequencing down pat. I'll have to look at your list for that later.
Mikaeus could use a reprint. Please, Wizards, I'd play him more if he didn't have the $30 price tag.
It's why I don't mind being a fool on these forums; getting the overlooked gems makes it a win! Lol
My Grimgrin list is heavier on the Reanimation theme, since Grimgrin has no built-in Reanimation effect like The God, and also focuses on sacrifice based synergies. Gravecrawler, Zulaport Cutthroat, and Havengul Lich are some examples of this. I'm also playing Lich's Mastery because I can and want to, so the deck is skewed slightly towards making the Mastery as useful as possible. Can you feel the casualness yet? Haha. It's slow to get off the ground but is really quite hard to disrupt once it gets going, similar to how I imagine this list is.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The oracle text on Arena of the Ancients has been updated to state that it only affects creatures unfortunately. Veneer has been very helpful in my deck, especially if people forget that he is in my yard. He is also one of the few pieces of planes walker removal we run and the threat of him is usually enough to persuade a negative ultimate (think Ajani Vengeant) from heading my direction without having to expend resources.
Depending on the number of wizards you run, Voidmage Prodigy and Patron Wizard could be very powerful (on their own, they are a hard counter spell and a repeatable Force Spike, though Patron Wizard's price has been climbing lately. The two things I like about the spike tails over the Wizard Replica is that the former is not an artifact (as there is no artifact synergies in the deck) and hence just more vulnerable to removal and that it requires an additional mana to activate.
I guess my other issue is that I am probably more of an Azorius mage given that I prefer prison strategies and will usually throw 3-6 cards in my deck designed to hose strategies that can give me trouble (e.g. Overburden and Land Equilibrium) and warp the table so that the other players have to play the game on my deck's rules.
Given the sac effects in your other lists, would Grave Pact style effects be helpful to keep opposing boards clear? How about Attrition as a potential sac outlet?
Fatespinner paragonweapon's comment about prison strategies made me hearken back to this card! I have only played against it so far, and it's a real kick in the nuts when an opponent drops this bad girl down. Perfect for this deck list, where we are attempting to attrition/slow down the plan of our opponents. It could prove especially useful for you Grimoire in that aggro happy meta of yours. I don't believe this card has been bandied about yet.
I forgot about Wizard Replica's one cost mana activation. Personally, I'd be fine with someone using their artifact removal on this. I'm going to make them to pay an extra 2 for it, which will slow down the rest of their turn. I'd rather they hit this than a mana rock of mine. Additionally, using removal on this isn't even a 1 for 1 in my eyes, because we just pay 4 and it comes back much stronger. Considering they pay and extra 2 for their spell, I'd say that's a 1.2 for .5 card trade in our favor. Also, an opponent should intuit that we won't attempt to counterspell their artifact removal if they point it away from us. Can give them a quick reminder, they might change their mind. That type of political strategy has worked for me before multiple times.
Attrition Now we're talking! Love this card, and pretty cheap $ for the potential it has in this deck.
Gravepact is good, but don't have one. I have Dictate of Erebos which I've been considering putting back into the deck. We'll see if I find room for it.
Thanks for the Arena of the ancients update. I didn't realized it had been updated rules wise.
benjameenbear, thanks for the insights. Would love for you and everyone else to pop in when you have a chance. Very stoked on everyone getting excited about the Scarab God. Thanks for giving this formerly lonely thread some traffic. I'll take a look at that Memnarch thread for some game theory info.
It sounds like a blast though! Having a "gimmick" deck is great sometimes because people underestimate it, or let you sit uncontested for too long, and by then your entire plan is online. Personally, I've got a monoB Josu Vess, Lich Knight deck... based solely on using Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, an enabler, and mana reducers to repeatedly cast small black creatures for value. It's great.
@Fatespinner: Again, a card I originally considered and forgot about. It's greatest strength? It only hits opponents, and it takes effect almost immediately. Demands removal or seriously hinders opponents. I think I originally dismissed it because I was aiming to make the deck more casual, but as I keep experimenting, the list gets more disruptive.
On-board counterspells are incredibly powerful. It deters even smart opponents from trying to remove your threats unless they have an overwhelming advantage (in mana or cards). Just the sight of a counter is often enough to prevent people from casting spells, and I love it.
The more sac outlets I add to the deck, the more I consider Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos. They were recommended to me by JJ not too long ago, and I still don't think I want them in my list, but I may experiment with them at some point. Attrition is a great card and I'd love to play it, but I play against many Black decks. Still a nice consideration.
Which is a perfectly valid way to play. I play with friends a lot too though, and their decks are more on the casual side, so I wanted my build to have a nice balance. Just depends on who you're up against, really.
Dream Eater seems expensive at first, but the more I think about it the more I like it. This card looks like 3 spells to me. A creature, a bounce spell and card filtering spell. The fact that it has flash puts it over the top. The 6 mana is a high price tag, however flash makes it okay in my opinion. My thinking is, just wait until the God is out to play this card. Leave 6 mana open, play this if you need to at the end step right before your turn starts. Or, resurrect a different creature from the graveyard if need be and still have mana up for a counterspell, vampiric tutor or pongify. The fun part is, if you do play it on that last endstep before your turn starts, you stand a decent chance of getting a new creature into the yard through the surveil ability before your turn starts. Then you have a potential wild card creature in your 'yard no one expected to be there. You can use this defensively too if someone attacks you with a high power creature.
On that note, there is an interesting trend showing up in my play with this deck. I wait until the late game, when the god has plenty of targets in the 'yard. Ideally, my opponents are pretty low on cards and creature presence at that point. Having 8 mana available makes this play even more ideal.
I leave up my 8 mana until this last end step before my turn. Then "externalize" 2 creatures. On my upkeep, externalize 2 more. Now I'm draining opponents for 4 life, and have 2 "haste" creatures that I can attack with. This move seems to be a winning formula for the deck. The tricky part is surviving that long. The amount of actions I take, and use of the stack almost makes it feel like taking 2 turns in a row. I realized I had to start playing faster because I was doing so much during my turn!
Part of what I love about playing this deck is it's ability to adapt to the game state. As long as we have a few cards in the 'yard and the god out, we are always prepared to play defensively, or offensively.
Huh, I play a bit differently. Unless I have a need for a particular creature during my turn/upkeep, I typically leave some creatures be in graveyards. Threatening to reanimate them at instant speed is something people seem to forget frequently, or avoid attacking entirely out of fear (without checking graveyards, even). The few times I've used SG on upkeep was because graveyards were plentiful and/or my opponents were at low life totals.
My philosophy is this: Fill up my 'yard and opponents 'yards early. Then externalize creatures as needed. I do prefer to get the draining of life through zombies started at least a little bit in the mid game. At the same time, cards in my hand are getting saved up for later. The cards in hand are unknown, while the creatures in the 'yard are known. It is a dance between keeping the hand full, while still having at least 1 decent target in the 'yard.
The ability to scry 4 in a turn is not to be overlooked. We just dig for answers or the most powerful card at that point. It's easy to overlook scrying deep into the deck, but it's probably a greater advantage than the life loss. In the late game, if you can scry at least 2 per turn, you stand a good chance of scrying away unwanted lands. The ability to practically guarantee skipping over lands for your draw is a huge advantage over the opponents. I like the 1-2 punch of externalizing on the end step and the upkeep when we start to go on the offensive. On a related note, I like resurrecting flying creatures asap if there is a lack of flying on the board. That 4 damage a turn really adds up in a deck that is usually unable to deal a whole ton of damage at once.
It could be as simple as my meta has more creatures in it than yours, therefore I'm more likely to have plenty of targets in the graveyard.
Part of the God's greatness is the incredible amount of options we have available to us at any time. It's part of the adaptability of the deck, and why it's so fun. Don't get me wrong, I'll stash away a removal on a stick for later use if it's not needed in the moment. I see your point about saving something for later.
To add to the conversation though: 4 feels like the event horizon for the deck. Once you have 4 or more Zombies with the Upkeep trigger, it absolutely demands a response. Not disagreeing with that at all, just doing so on my own upkeep.
Definitely doesn't help that my meta is varied. Some games have nothing but creatures. Others? All spellslinger/combo/control decks. It's a mixed bag, but there are usually a few targets, so I try not to overextend since I do consider them resources.
While it's pretty obvious to jam in Phyrexian Dreadnought or Phage the Untouchable with Lazav and lol all the way to the win, I think Lazav is actually a really good way to get additional mileage out of good and well-costed static effect creates. Cards like Graveborn Muse, FAtespinner, or Grave Titan are not bad to have second copies of, especially since Lazav doesn't compete with The God's "externalize" ability (love that phrase, by the by).
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Rain of notions definitely goes into the list. You got your wish perfectly grimoire!
Updated the list. Been taking some tips from Benjameenbear's list. Upped the creature count by quite a bit. The deck definitely wanted more creatures. Switched some non-creature tutors into to creatures that tutor. Added Liliana of the veil. I already have a copy, and she's exactly what this deck wants to be doing.
Added meteor golem. With the amount of tutors and card draw in this deck, I should be able to find him if needed in most cases. A new regular to hit with Buried Alive. In solo testing, soldevi adnate is crazy.
1 Rotting Rats
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Merciless Executioner
1 Spiketail Drakeling
1 Fatespinner
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Nekrataal
1 Hostage Taker
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Vindictive Lich
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil engine
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Grave Titan
1 Meteor Golem
Card Draw/Filtering 16
1 Skullclamp
1 sensei's Divining top
1 Baleful Strix
1 dusk legion zealot
1 Skyscanner
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Midnight Reaper
1 Merchant of Secrets
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Rain of notions
1 Rhystic Study
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Concentrate
1 Mulldrifter
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Spellseeker
1 Trinket Mage
1 Buried Alive
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Rune-scarred Demon
Ramp 11 (13)
1 Sol Ring
1 Coldsteel heart
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Deranged Assistant
1 Mind stone
1 Soldevi Adnate
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Thran Dynamo
Boardwipes 5
1 Curse of the swine
1 cyclonic rift
1 Damnation
1 Life's Finale
1 In Garruk's Wake
Other 5
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Counterspell
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sunken Hollow
1 command tower
1 watery grave
1 Underground River
1 choked estuary
1 drowned catacomb
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 temple of deceit
1 jwar isle Refuge
1 Submerged boneyard
1 fetid pools
1 dismal backwater
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Memorial to Genius
10 swamp
9 island
Your new build is looking good, JJ. Although maybe you should organize it by card types, then function? It's a pain, but I did it when I updated my list and it makes it look much cleaner.
I am interested in how your sacrifice subtheme will be going with the deck since you only have 4 (Fleshbag Marauder, Merciless Executioner, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, and Altar of Dementia) in the deck. Even just squeezing one into your manabase might be good enough - High Market is easy to obtain, and Phyrexian Tower if you're looking to splurge a bit. I feel like either could easily replace something like Memorial to Genius.
And I do have to ask how your cantrip creatures have been working out? I almost feel like you should have a Panharmonicon with the number in your list, really. For instance, I thought Skyscanner was a good catch from M19, but I ended up taking it right back out to put other, better suited cards in (or so I felt). 3 mana for a 1/1 with "draw a card" didn't feel too good to me. But if you went all in on the sac, it could make more sense.
Definitely feels more like your build is moving towards combo/control, given your number of tutors and various pieces. Whereas mine shows my bias for straight Control - I want to throttle my opponents and win on my own time.
I tend to play the deck as control/long game. I reach for the combo if I feel there is no other way for me to win, or the game has gone on for too long is at a stale-mate for a few turns. Even in the above scenario, I was going to search up Meteor golem initially to take out the enchantment rather than combo off. I just forgot to put that card in! LOL. Anyway, I'm definitely not trying to maximize the combo. aspect of the deck, it would be built different if I were. I find comboing off to be boring usually. It's just nice to have a trick up the sleeve.
The sacrifice isn't really a theme so much. All the cards are in there for things besides their sacrificing potential. I only need to sac. like 1 or 2 creatures to get the 'yard primed, if that. Or a may not need to sac. any at all if I can just block. I'm not looking at add more sac. outlets, though High Market does seem like a good choice if I feel like I need another. My playgroup doesn't often try to gain control of or Imprisoned in the moon the god, thus depriving me of it. If they wise up, more instant speed no cost sac. outlets will be considered.
I love the can trip creatures. These are the bread-and-butter of my creature base in my opinion. I want creatures out asap so they can start getting into the 'yard. Because of them, my hand rarely goes down below 4 cards even in the late game. In the early-mid game my hand rarely goes down below 5-6, and can stay at 7 for quite a while most games. Later after they've died, they still fill up your hand when "externalized." They are just fodder creatures to dig me to better cards and make sure I hit land drops all game long. I find my deck really wants to keep hitting land drops, even if I played an early sol ring for instance. The faster we get to 8 mana the better in my opinion. I want to start "externalizing' 2 creatures at once asap. I find that sometimes my deck is doing so well with all the creatures/tutoring/boardwiping that the God doesn't come out at all until I hit 9 mana so I can play it, and have enough mana for an activation. Having a plethora of cheap creatures, especially the can trip variety helps a lot with this. These little guys also help a lot with avoiding mulligans. Keep 2 land hands sometimes, even without ramp, if I have a couple of these bad boys in hand. While they aren't impressive, they serve a crucial function in my deck. Skyscanner is a terrible edh card on it's own. When resurrected though, you get a 4/4 flyer and another card for 4 mana, plus probably drain some life away and scry. When you look at it like that, it's pretty amazing.
Simultaneously, I am now running fewer non-creature draw card spells and doing fine without them. It's all about squeezing in as many creatures as possible while maintaining the consistency of the deck. I like being able to play out a bunch of creatures early game to deter attacks. Then feel fine boardwiping away the first 1-4 creatures I played out around turn 5-6 because I already received my value from them.
At first I was going to say I don't want Panharmonicon because it's not a creature. You're right though. I've reached a critical mass of etb creatures and this would be amazing. I'll grab one when I get a chance.
Thanks for the questions and suggestions!
Also, Dead eye navigator is a creature that can do similar things. I think I like the artifacts better though, due to their lesser cmc and activation costs.
Eh?
I partially mentioned sacrifice as a theme because I noticed two differences between our lists: You included Skullclamp, but you also have significantly less Instant-Speed interaction (removal/counterspells). Relying on smaller creatures makes sense when you cantrip them, then kill them for additional draw - I found I was using them to help cycle through my deck faster. Seems to be a difference of preference, playstyle, or the people we play with - I realized I never wanted to cast Skyscanner for 3 mana (it felt better to hold up mana to threaten a response). I'm not disagreeing that our God can take trash creatures and make them better - but it doesn't make them any better on their own. I learned from experience with another deck of mine that I tend to get punished for playing too many of the cantrip creatures without doing, or threatening, something.
Guessing you got reminded by the discussion surrounding Etrata, the Silencer? She looks just silly enough for me to build. Crystal Shard and Erratic Portal could work in The Scarab God, but I think you underestimate Deadeye Navigator. While a steep initial cost (or not, if you Eternalize it), the Soulbond allows you to repeat any ETB at your leisure for 1U.
In past discussions, it sounded like your meta was faster and more powerful. I probably have more time to set up my board before the game gets really interesting. I mean, if you feel the need to hold up counterspells/creature removal on turn 3 or 4 just to get by, I say damn! That does sound like a beastly meta. In my games, no one is doing anything threatening the first few turns, probably just some ramp or some stupid chump creature. Are people cheating in Blightsteel colossus in turn 3 in your meta or what? Do you need to have answers to infinite combos ready? My meta doesn't have any besides mine. In the mid/late game you should have the mana up to be able to play Skyscanner plus a counterspell/removal, so no harm done.
I find my deck does fine reacting at sorcery speed most of the time. If someone plays a big creature, they won't get to swing with until their next turn usually. So I just play chupacabra, or Fleshbag maruader or something on my next turn to get rid of it. They didn't get to attack me with it, so I don't care if it's removed at sorcery speed. At the same time, if an opponent does attack me with a big creature, but I have tons of chump blockers, that doesn't cause me much harm either, and is probably helping me out by giving me some 'yard fodder.
You can't discount the card you draw into from skyscanner either. If I play scanner and draw a vampiric tutor off of it, scanner did a really good job. Even drawing another land off of it is usually good enough early game. I don't have to worry about not being able to use my god on it usually. My opponents just aren't that good at taking the god out. I rarely have it go back to the command zone more than once in a game, often times not at all. The way I see it, if you draw enough cards it ups the consistency of the deck, especially when you have enough tutors. I built the deck with only 5 boardwipes. I also built the deck so that I will consistently draw into one, or at least draw into a tutor by mid game. Most times, I can reliably get a board wipe into hand by turn 5/6/7. This is crucial for my deck, and the cantripping helps me get there.
It's also hard to comprehend all of the synergy surrounding these cantrip creatures, but it's there. It's not just the synergy from the god. It's synergy with self-discard effects, skullclamp as you pointed out, the self-sacrifice creatures like Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Soldevi Adnate, the possible new addition of Midnight Reaper, Liliana of the veil, Fact or fiction, Notion Rain, Dream eater Ashnod's Altar (recently put in ashnod's instead of Phyrexian altar) and on. My deck used to run 27 creatures. Now that it's up to 35, it's hitting that critical mass where all of the above mentioned cards will usually have good synergy due to the mass number of creatures. Even your boardwipes get better when you have more creatures. Soldevi adnate alongside Ashnod's altar is ridiculous with a bunch of creatures. These cards lead to surprising jump-starts mid game where you can play a huge creature out, or play the god, plus sac. a creature to "externalize" a creature the same turn the god comes out by jumping ahead on mana. You need a plethora of low cmc creatures you don't mind sacrificing to do it though.
My gameplan is usually all about "durdling around" as my friend puts it, in the early game. Just ramp, and play cantrip or discard creatures like Miasmic mummy. Wait until my opponents have extended a lot of resources into playing creatures out, then board wipe. Or, play a well time Fleshbag Marauder that will hit all of my opponent's first and only creatures they put out. Now they have nothing to threaten me with, so I keep "durdling" saving up resources for later. I keep using my hand until my opponents are low on cards and creatures. Then use the god to develop a huge board, and refill my hand in the process. It's this dance of resources that is hard for my opponents to beat. I end up having the most resources at my disposal by far in late game. That's how I built this deck to win, with the possibility of comboing out.
The cantripping into combo pieces is also a part of the synergy of these cards. The combo is also a reason I want to keep hitting land drops all game long. I need 12 mana to do it in one turn. Or 10 mana by "externalizing" Mikaues, then playing Triskelion. Fortunately, my deck doesn't seem to have much of a problem carrying itself into the point where I have that much mana.
If my opponents are really threatening me early, and I don't have chump blockers out, I'll use the god as a defensive last resort. The god is a pretty significant stat. wise, and can be a repeatable chump blocker to a huge creature if need be.
It's a mix of both, I'd say - your meta sounds very battlecrusier and I miss that sometimes. Since there's a large variety of decks in my area, each angling at winning in different ways, I have to expect people to be dishing out real damage or attacking resources by turns 4-8 depending on the deck. Combo is a minority here - but if I get sat down with an Edgar Markov, Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa + Partner or god forbid Animar, Soul of Elements, I need to have enough wipes or early responses to prevent them from reaching critical mass and running me over. Whereas sometimes I may sit down with Atraxa, Praetor's Voice, Keranos, God of Storms, Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, or monoB Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. People like synergy around here, so if any of the new Enchantress Commanders, Inalla, Archmage Ritualist, or Lathliss, Dragon Queen manage to stick any of their key pieces down, the fight gets that much harder. The difference between our metas, I believe, is that tempo is the key factor of mine - whoever manages to accumulate an advantage early on has a better chance to beat their primary threats. Something typically happens every turn (not so much dead space as preparation) - we either ramp, develop our boardstate, or hinder someone else from doing so.
I completely agree that the cantrip creatures are a fun and effective way to utilize The Scarab God. Honest truth: I'm a Grixis player at heart. Everything I ever want to do is in Grixis colors, Dimir being among my favorite. Reanimation, Sacrifice, Control - my bread and butter. I'm on your page as far as why you enjoy where your build is going - it just hasn't quite worked for me. The Scarab God is naturally very powerful because of it's adaptability.
A secondary challenge I face is I want my build Focused, efficient, good even - but I want to be able to play it against more casual decks, hence why I've removed combo and limit tutors. I rather enjoy grinding people out over a few turns, making them watch the God drain their life away in larger chunks each time.
Also, something you might like, because I know I did: a 3rd Fleshbag effect was just spoiled for GRN.
The hilariously named Burglar Rat. This is the only 2 drop creature that I know of that has a hits all opponents hands without hitting us too. It either replaces Miasmic Mummy or runs alongside it. This guy is really making me consider going more into the discard strategy. I picked up Cackling Fiend the other day too, which only encourages me more. I think if I went further into the discard strategy my deck would just straight bulldoze most everything in my playgroup. Especially alongside 3 fleshbag marauder effects.
I see what you're saying about your playstyle/focus for your deck Grimoire. Now I do remember you mentioning earlier that you weren't trying to optimize/make the most competitive list possible. It also makes sense why you you want so many counterspells too. Cool that you added Venser to your list, it should help.
I'm trying to optimize my deck for competitive play, as cheaply as possible. I want something that's going to stand up to fiercer metas than my own. If my deck keeps winning in my meta, I'll start offering to play archenemy style vs. my playgroup. Take on 2 or 3 players working together vs. my deck. That way I can keep optimizing and make it still fun for my playgroup. Otherwise, I'll play other lesser decks. Or maybe start rebuilding the fun zombie tribal deck for the god.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your meta made up of? You've mentioned a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge player on a few occasions, but I'm not sure what else you go up against.
The new list still is all about resource denial and amassing more resources on our side. Significant upgrades since you last saw it, including
The deck should really start to earn it's competitive title now.
There is a lot more synergy added to the deck's theme of draining away all of our opponent's resources at once. Also plenty more low cmc creatures to start priming the graveyard early if people attack us early. A lack of early plays was noticeable before.
Gravepact and Dictate of Erebos combined with etb each opponent sacs a creature etb is ridiculous. Imagine having one of these out, then playing Plaguecrafter each opponent sacs. 2 creatures for 3 mana, if you have 4 more mana you can instantly "externalize" plaguecrafter the same turn, making the opponents sac. an additional 2 creatures. 7 mana with the god and these cards leads to each opponent sacrificing 4 creatures in one turn. Now that's some resource denial! Anyway, these cards should do fine without entering "Christmas land" since they really dissuade opponents from attacking us as well since we nearly always have creatures on the board.
While some of the cards look a bit janky and underwhelming (Miasmic Mummy?) I believe the synergy combined with the god's "externalize" ability will truly make this a deck that can take on everyone at the table at once. Can't wait to get games in with the new list. Expect a report in the next week on how it works out.
1 Burglar Rat
1 Rotting Rats
1 Miasmic Mummy
1 Dusk Legion Zealot
1 Baleful Strix
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Merciless Executioner
1 Plaguecrafter
1 Fatespinner
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Champion of Wits
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Midnight Reaper
1 Spellseeker
1 Trinket Mage
1 Nekrataal
1 Hostage Taker
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Notion Thief
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Mulldrifter
1 Triskelion
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Wurmcoil engine
1 Grave Titan
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Rune-scarred Demon
1 Skullclamp
1 sensei's Divining top
1 Notion Rain
1 Read the Bones
1 Rhystic Study
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Concentrate
1 Rush of Knowledge
Tutor 3 (6)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Buried Alive
Ramp 9 (13)
1 Sol Ring
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Coldsteel heart
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
Boardwipes/Sacrifice 6
1 cyclonic rift
1 Damnation
1 Grave pact
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Life's Finale
1 All is Dust
Other 3
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Counterspell
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sunken Hollow
1 command tower
1 watery grave
1 Underground River
1 choked estuary
1 drowned catacomb
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Reflecting Pool
1 temple of deceit
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 jwar isle Refuge
1 fetid pools
1 dismal backwater
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Memorial to Genius
1 Memorial to Folly
9 swamp
7 island