Captain Sisay has been my main competitive EDH deck for a few months now and frankly I have never piloted a deck with anywhere near the reliability or kill speed before. I would be shocked if elements of this list are not banned in time. The deck has rekindled a love for the game in me, largely due to the extremely flexible card choices behind my current list.
What Makes This Deck Good?
Like I mentioned above this deck has an insanely low variance rate and also has a spectacular kill speed. That being said, these are hardly the main attractors of this deck.
Being built around a commander - This aspect of the deck means that deck digging is not necessary to access your combo, merely to accelerate and protect it. This feature allows for the deck to play at a card disadvantage and to ignore virtually all resources of the game other than maintaining your permanents on board. Life total is essentially irrelevant, as are cards in hand and cards in library (as long as a combo piece has not been exiled).
Having a built in win con - Due to the fact that the win condition is so easily tutored the vast majority of the deck can be built to filter, protect and accelerate the process. This allows for a gigantic selection of cards which can be replaced based upon personal and meta-based preferences. This also allows for flexibility in deck building, an example of which would be choosing to run multiple potential win conditions or just a single more streamline one.
What Are The Major Weaknesses Of This Deck?
Although this deck has an absolutely unreal power potential, it is also much more prone to hate than your traditional EDH deck.
Being built around a commander - Due to the deck wholly relying upon Sisay, repeated, targeted hatred towards her can lead to a dismal experience. Depending on the nature of your playgroup this decklist does allow for swapping of cards to include protection effects for creatures (such as Vines of Vastwood), but this has detrimental effects on the streamline of the deck.
Single-scoped win con - In this decks current nature there are a laundry list of cards which once exiled or otherwise removed from your access can completely suffocate your combo. These cards are Bontu's Monument, Paradox Engine, Stonecloaker, and Captain Sisay. With cards like Academy Rector, Food Chain, Eternal Scourge and mana dump win conditions like Helix Pinnacle this can be avoided, allowing multiple win conditions. Once again though, inserting multiple win conditions will significantly reduce the speed and efficiency at which the main combo operates at.
Is This Deck Right For Me?
You will essentially be goldfishing 24/7 and every game will proceed in an identical, linear nature.
This deck allows for a high amount of modification.
This deck is EXPENSIVE!
With this list you either dominate or get dominated, there is no middle ground.
This deck is extremely threatening and demands targeted hatred. This does not make for good repeat games with the same playgroup.
The following list will be an attempt at partitioning the deck by function. Many of the cards serve multiple purposes so they will just be depicted in their major role.
The goal of this deck is to land a Sisay as fast as possible, and ideally to win on the proceeding turn. This is accomplished in a very straightforward fashion.
Early Turns
In the first two turns of the game your main goal is to develop as much mana resources as possible. While lands are useful, mana rocks/dorks are much superior due to their interaction with Paradox Engine.
The only other thing that you should be trying to accomplish at this time, other than protecting your board state and looking as innocent as possible, is preparing for your Alpha strike turn. This will be the turn that Paradox Engine is played (with Sisay in play and active). We prepare for this turn by using our mana resources in such a way that we have the requisite 5 mana needed to cast Paradox Engine along with either a 0 CMC spell to follow it or the necessary mana to cast another spell in hand.
Sisay is in play
At this point we need Sisay to stick until our mana untaps. Even though we have Lightning Greaves it is nearly impossible to go off the turn Sisay is cast due to the CMC of Paradox Engine.
Alpha strike
Once Sisay is in play and we have the mana to cast our freshly tutored Paradox Engine along with a follow-up spell we are going to go for the alpha strike.
The alpha strike is accomplished by chain-casting Stonecloaker with a Bontu's Monument and at least 3 mana producing potential worth of mana dorks/rocks in play. In order to get our board state into a position where we can accomplish this we will do the following:
1. With Sisay in play we will use Sisay’s ability to tutor Paradox Engine. (Or Mox Amber/Mox Opal if PE is already in hand).
2. Once we cast Paradox Engine we will follow it up with another spell in order to trigger PE and untap our nonland permanents.
3. We will tap any mana producers that we have available to us every time PE triggers, and start tutor-chaining with Sisay in order to accrue mana.
4. A good ordering for this is Mox Amber -> Mox Opal -> Seton -> Bontu’s Monument -> Hope of Ghirapur -> Isamaru -> Oath of Nissa -> Saffi -> Skyship Weatherlight (targeting Stonecloaker).
5. Alpha strike.
From this setup it can be seen that having an abundance of 0 CMC and 1 CMC spells in your deck is virtually necessary to allow for reliable alpha strikes the turn that Paradox Engine is tutored.
THIS DECK CAN WIN WITH NO PERMANENTS OTHER THAN SISAY AND PARDOX ENGINE ON BOARD!!!
The ideal opening hand has a white and a green land along with a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt or a combination of Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox/Gemstone Cavern along with another mana dork/rock. This will allow for a turn 2 Sisay which should result in a turn 3 win ~50% of the time if unhindered.
In general mana rocks are better than mana dorks with the exclusion of Priest of Titania.
Having Paradox Engine in our opening hand is not bad, unless you fear hand destruction.
Mulligans do not impact this deck even slightly as much as any other combo deck I have ever played with. I would never mulligan aggressively, as our main goal with our opening hand is mana dorks/rocks, but I would gladly mulligan any hand that looked expressly slow.
Reasoning Behind Card Selection
Here I would like to explain why several of the cards which are not explicitly part of the combo or are accelerators are in the current decklist.
Bow of Nylea - Tutorable by Sisay and mainly acts as a recursion engine for any combo pieces that were yarded. Also offers removal and life gain options.
0 CMC Spells - There are 15 0 CMC spells in this deck. Ideally you want one for your alpha strike turn in order to proc PE.
Walking Ballista - On top of being a 0 CMC spell, this can also act as a mana dump if Bontu's Monument has been exiled and you can climb the infinite mana ladder.
Leyline of Sanctity - A filler card that can protect you. It will generally never be cast, just played from your opening hand. This card has playtested very mediocre, but has a gigantic potential upside.
Silence - One of the best cards in the deck. If you have 6 mana on your alpha strike turn and a 0 CMC spell then you can silence before you start your combo, if the silence resolves your only potential interruption will be triggered/activated abilities.
Angel's Grace - Another semi-filler card that has playtested very mediocre, but has the potential of a gigantic upside. Shutting down other people's combos and also serving as a 1 CMC spell to potentially trigger PE.
Noxious Revival - Another potential recursion tool and a 0 CMC spell to trigger PE.
Urza's Ruinous Blast - If you have to cast this card you are really hurting in the first place. As such this card could likely be removed, but it does offer answers to those pesky artifacts and white enchantments that shut your combo down and is tutorable by Sisay.
Wildfield Borderpost - This card is not that great for early game acceleration, but it can help if you are short on land drops and is effective when PE is in play.
Strip Mine - This card is mainly for destroying Cradles and Tabernacles.
Tormod's Crypt - Another 0 CMC spell that can shut down several other combo decks.
Other Playable Cards/Gimmicks
Over the months this deck has continually evolved and as such I felt like it might be beneficial to include some of the cards and gimmicks that can be added to the deck for more versatility or a different playing experience.
Reki, the History of Kamigawa/Hazoret's Monument - Tutorable by Sisay, falls into the 3 CMC and under range which means it can be cast as part of the Sisay loop for free, and also offers card draw options for deck digging.
City of Solitude & Grand Abolisher - Both of these cards can be great additions to your deck if you are playing in counter-heavy metas. I would not mainboard cards of this ilk though due to the relatively low occurrence of early-game counter spells in multiplayer EDH.
Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor - This is another potential ramping mechanism for the deck. While this is 100% playable (especially since GSZ has a CMC of 1), I have avoided this route due to the nature of Paradox Engine not untapping lands.
Cycle cards - Cycling is a very strong tool for this deck, allowing for even more streamlining of a deck which already has an extremely narrow scope. I would not recommend using cards that cycle for more than 1 due to the mana hungry nature of this deck though.
Lodestone Bauble - Another solid 0 CMC spell. Although this spell alone might not be worth mentioning, I am including this to once again highlight the importance of including a substantial 0 CMC package.
Land Tax - 1 mana spell that can potentially provide mana fixing and deck thinning. All around solid.
Helm of Awakening - This card is extremely powerful with this deck, but when it is most effective it will generally remain in play for more than one turn allowing your opponents to benefit off of it as well.
Conclusion
I could continue to write about this deck for hours, and will continue to expand this with individual interactions present in the deck, changelogs and more alternative playable cards, but for now I will leave it at this. In my opinion the greatest aspect of this deck is the flexibility that it has exhibited with its decklist while still maintaining a very competitive nature. As such I would love to get some outside advice on my current list from more experienced eyes.
I used to play a Sisay Paradox deck, haven't played it well over a year (probably more like 18 months), because it is so linear. Kind of only so many times you can play it. Either people can stop you or you win.
The main differences I have to yours is running different protection and a completely different way of winning. You've given me some great ideas, the Welding Jar, Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble are cards that I'll add to mine.
Your meta is different to mine, as there is always at least two blue counterspell heavy decks at a table in any given game, and tons of disruption. So I have to run Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dromoka, Conqueror's Flail, Hope of Ghirapur. If I don't then I'm going to be met 100% with a counterspell or similar, as they know the game plan.
My suggestion for "tech" cards is Apostle's Blessing, Lapse of Certainty. Lapse comes of a bit of a shock to people who have tried to prepared for you.
Yes, this deck is extremely competitive and not much fun to play against. I would only recommend using a deck of this fashion for competitions, not for friendly play. Especially since, as you mentioned, once the workings of this deck are known by your opponents it will likely be hated into the ground.
I have debated pretty much every card listed there. I need to practice playtesting with the creatures that can bounce for a forest return, I should have enough fetches for it to be practical. Wildfield Borderpost has been an excellent addition to the deck and has similar limitations. That being said, neither the ranger nor the scryb can benefit from Paradox Engine so I feel like they are innately a little weaker than their CMC to ability ratio would indicate.
As far as Thousand-Year Elixir goes I feel like it is strictly a win-more card in this current list. When Sisay and PE are in play and the deck is not being obstructed your board state generally does not matter. This deck can win with 0 other permanents in play (no lands, no nothing other than PE and Sisay) due to the presence of Mox Opal, Mox Amber, Reki, Hazoret's and Seton in the library. It is also worth mentioning that several spells can be replaced with low CMC legendary minions, such as Isamaru, Hound of Konda to increase the length of this loop, in turn improving your chances for a win when your board state has been hated into the ground or immediately preceding an Urza's Ruinous Blast. That being said, I have not included these cards because after extensive goldfishing it seems that there are enough legendaries in the deck to consistently muck out wins with no other permanents on board.
Apostle's Blessing is an auto-include and belongs on the first changelog I create. I am usnure of Lapse of Certainty due to the absurdly high CMC (I NEVER have those mana resources available instant-speed unless I already lost the battle to win in the early turns), but does make me think that Mana Tithe could potentially be another great include.
Hope of Ghirapur strictly just belongs in this decklist as well. Nothing but upsides.
Thousand-Year Elixir is certainly not a win-more card, it allows you to activate Sisay without summoning sickness and often it's the Gaea's Cradle as the first order of business, so you get to play it for the turn, and this just puts your opponents in a rough spot as you can easily pay for commander tax if they then try to remove her. So it's great if your opponents are holding removal, like Swords to Plowshares, etc. In this way it's even better than Lightning Greaves, as opponents can remove Sisay on you trying to equip, where as you get to use Sisay with the Thousand-Year Elixir, potentially even twice if you have the 1 also available.
If I'm casting Paradox Engine (with ability to stop disruption), then I've won, literally. So the argument of Seeker of Skybreak is better under PE doesn't seem correct to me. You can just do so much more with Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger when you don't have PE, and this is when the game is important. My deck is configured a little land lighter, so I can make use of bouncing the forest as well, to provide the land drops for the turn.
This deck can't combo with Sisay until the turn after it comes into play pretty much without exception. If you watch the video posted above you can see that this deck does not need any more options to win, it wins automatically without hindrance. If Sisay gets yarded the combo is instantly broken as well.
The argument here is sacrificing streamline for flexibility. This deck does not care about flexibility in the least. That is another type of Sisay deck.
This deck is not made for casual play groups where people are running mana leak and fatal push. This is intended for Tournaments where every single deck is trying to either win or lock down board state in the first few turns. And decks running a preponderance of Fatal Push/Mana Leak effects pretty much cannot win in those settings. Sisay still gets sworded quite frequently, but including thousand year elixir would not make my alpha strike come a single turn sooner since Sisay needs to be tabled to win.
I also pulled Seeker of Skybreak altogether. Bouncing lands just is not as good for this deck as mana dorks are. If I bounce a land to cast Sisay then I will be one land short for PE. Meaning that Scryb and Ranger require dorks that tap for double to be in play to produce any upside, whereas Seeker does not. There just aren't enough double mana producing dorks to create upside for these cards IMO.
So you just lose to Breakfast Hulk every game? Because if that is what tournament games are like, then that will certainly win faster than you can in fish bowl setting. I've never played a tournament, so actually keen to know.
Breakfast Hulk has a fish bowl win rate on turn 2.81, meaning it wins on turn 2, almost as much as it wins on turn 3.
And your deck performs better against that? You need to include interruption to beat a goldfishing deck. None of the suggestions you have made have been interruption related. If you don't have anything valuable to add you should probably leave this thread alone.
The suggestions you are referring to expressly slow this deck down. That would do nothing but hurt my matchup with Breakfast Hulk.
I think you're getting me wrong. You're saying that you are in a tournament setting, which I haven't played. You say that it's basically self contained decks. So in that setting other combos are much quicker. So this is a genuine question, nothing to do with the quality of your deck, which looks great, but don't you just lose to decks that can combo quicker? Forget my suggestions and stuff, it's a tournament question I'm asking.
Hall of the Bandit Lord is a land that I tend to recommend for decks that need their general and/or other creatures to tap fast. In fact, I back up darrenhabib's comment about T-YE and would add BOTH of them to this deck for redundancy, which isn't a bad thing for this kind of deck. I honestly don't see how giving your creatures (pseudo)haste to fire off combos faster would be a bad thing.
Leaving combo pieces in your hand as opposed to in the library makes them much more prone to hatred, and gives information to my opponents before I get the opportunity to combo off. And tutoring them to hand is not accelerating the combo by a turn. When I have the opportunity to use Sisay's ability without PE in play it is ALWAYS the correct play to use her tutor at EOT before my turn begins, making the haste aspect completely benign albeit I have the resources to cast PE.
The only time this would create an upside is when I get the miracle Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox starting hand and that happens so rarely that building a deck around that opening hand is not beneficial. On top of that with Halls I would be reducing my colored mana by one meaning I would need an additional chrome mox effect in hand to go off on turn 2. Which has to occur in less than .1% of starting hands.
As far as legendary lands go, they really serve no purpose. Pendlehaven only produces 1 mana and has realistically no upside other than being able to be tutored. I rarely have untapped lands up at instant speed to protect my creatures, and when I do a vines/sejiri steppe effect would be much better. But I already have legendary lands which can be tutored if needed that are vastly superior. The coal of this deck is to run as few legendaries as possible, allowing for the streamlining of the ones that do occur. Ash Barrens is in the deck merely due to it's cycle ability and sejiri steppe gives crop rotation added value. I could see pulling Sejiri out, but I would rather replace it with an untapped mana source that produces green and white due to the sorcery-speed nature of this deck.
Armageddon could definitely have a place in this deck. It is a very common theme with Sisay to run Land D, but once again when I have that much mana to cast I should be outright winning anyways, meaning land destruction is actually a weaker alternative.
I really wish I could flag this post and have it removed. The store I play at has competitions a few times a year with product support that has some of the most aggressive EDH decks you will ever run into. I won three of four years ago with Azami, but the meta has become way more competitive since then. Arcum Dagsson is easily the most represented deck at the tournaments and every deck that makes it to the final table is 100% a combo deck. Breakfast Hulk has yet to win, to my knowledge, and the cards I fear most are Trinisphere due to the prevalence of Arcum, and Damping Sphere which has seen a recent spike in EDH play in my local meta.
The intention is to bring a Sisay deck that my store has never played against in order to catch the first few tables unawares until I get to the point where my deck isn't anymore threatening than the other decks at the later tables even if my deck is slightly underpowered it should HOPEFULLY see less premeditated hate simply because Sisay has never been recognized as tier 1 in our meta and ideally the deck will only receive direct combo-blocking hatred.
Sadly, it seems like most of the suggestions here are for a casual meta as opposed to a go big or go home meta, which is unfortunately the meta this deck has to survive in. Interruption is not useless, but when four people are all trying to combo off on turns 2-4 it is always beneficial to be the one relying on others to provide the necessary hatred to prevent the game from ending as opposed to being the person that wasted a card and a turn's worth of mana without progressing their win-con.
I think you need to take a moment and chill, my dude. darrenhabib made a lot of great suggestions for your deck, but because he made a few suggestions you didn't like, you insult him and tell him to leave the thread? You had not even considered Hope of Ghirapur, a very obvious inclusion, before he suggested it, so he was definitely able to contribute to your deck.
Sadly, it seems like most of the suggestions here are for a casual meta as opposed to a go big or go home meta, which is unfortunately the meta this deck has to survive in.
It seems to me that you are building this deck towards a very specific local meta. I find it odd that you say the deck you are most concerned about is Arcum. Arcum does not hold a relevant meta share online. Your meta is certainly a competitive one, but when you talk about a tournament setting, I think of a very different set of decks being successful, like Breakfast Hulk, Shimmer Zur, or Thrasios/Vial. It's fine if that's not the meta you're building your deck toward, but you should consider the possibility that the reason you don't like the suggestions you're getting is not because they're not relevant to a competitive deck, but simply that they're not relevant to your own specific goals.
Interruption is not useless, but when four people are all trying to combo off on turns 2-4 it is always beneficial to be the one relying on others to provide the necessary hatred to prevent the game from ending as opposed to being the person that wasted a card and a turn's worth of mana without progressing their win-con.
How recently have you played in this tournament setting? You mention having played a few years ago, at which time I remember glass-cannon combo being far and away the norm. However, in the online cEDH meta recently, I've been seeing plenty of interaction being played. Sure, blue decks no longer contain Mana Leak but they do contain Force of Will, Delay, Flusterstorm, Swords to Plowshares, and a number of other reactive spells.
I understand that 1-for-1 removal in a multiplayer situation is putting yourself at a disadvantage, however, it is a necessary evil to accept that occasionally, some decks will go off before you and you will need to provide an answer. To believe that your deck will always combo off first is arrogant, and to dismiss the games where someone else goes off before you as lost, I feel, will lose you valuable win%, which matters a lot in a tournament setting. Relying only on other players to answer cards for you is not a competitive mindset.
The most established Paradox Sisay list online plays interactive spells and even its own stax package. Sisay's fastest combo turn is slower than the fastest combo decks in the meta, so evolving your deck into a midrange combo list will net you wins.
Now, if you're not playing against other storm decks constantly in your local meta, the Stax package may not be for you. That's a personal call.
Now, as far as suggestions go, I would absolutely be playing Swords to Plowshares. Path giving out a free land isn't always great, and is extra downside on top of playing 1-for-1 removal, but if you ever do happen to run into Ooze or Hulk decks at least having the possibility to have Swords in hand is worth it.
Skyship Weatherlight is outdated. Inventors' Fair is the go-to tutor piece. It costs a land drop, but this is mitigated by playing Azusa, Lost But Seeking (which you should also be playing). As a side note, Azusa would also make Quirion ranger a better inclusion.
Sejiri Steppe is a gimmick and a very dead card to have in the hand and should be dropped. Same goes for both the zero-mana buables. They aren't tutorable, and with access now to both Mox Opal and Mox Amber you shouldn't need to clog any of your deck slots with sub-par extenders - you should make enough mana to go infinite quite easily by just tapping Sisay.
As an aside, if you truly do not wish to continue this discussion, you can delete your own post. At the bottom of any of your posts, you should find a "tools" button with a dropdown menu, which includes a "delete" function.
Inventor's Fair doesn't take up a spell slot, and Blind Obedience is decent against several types of combo decks in Commander already so its inclusion is reasonable (Splinter Twin players have to remove Obedience before going off, for example, and Grixis Storm and Jhoira Cheerios dislikes it greatly). So you'd really be running only two cards for the sake of the combo in Curio and Reki, whereas in yours you run Oath of Nissa, Isamaru, Skyship Weatherlight *and* Stonecloacker. Consolidating these down from 4 pieces to 2-3 seems reasonable, even if both combos aren't exactly the 'optimized' lines.
My personal Sisay list uses Selvala, Explorer Returned and Thousand-Year Elixir as the payload to draw everyone out but myself. I was already running Thousand-Year Elixir and Green Sun's Zenith, so I just swapped which Selvala my deck was running, lol. Takes very few pieces that are dead without the others. This combo line is a bit more restrictive than the Bontu's Monument/Curio/Blasting Station/Bow of Nylea + Saffi lines, but I commonly have to play Sisay against Food Chain decks (Tazri, Prossh), Gitrog, Grixis Storm, ADN/DD Zur, etc., and each one of those is faster than Sisay, lol, so I'm usually playing defense and casting stuff like t2 Eidolon of Rhetoric to even have time to cast and tap my Commander.
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Intoduction
Captain Sisay has been my main competitive EDH deck for a few months now and frankly I have never piloted a deck with anywhere near the reliability or kill speed before. I would be shocked if elements of this list are not banned in time. The deck has rekindled a love for the game in me, largely due to the extremely flexible card choices behind my current list.
What Makes This Deck Good?
Like I mentioned above this deck has an insanely low variance rate and also has a spectacular kill speed. That being said, these are hardly the main attractors of this deck.
Being built around a commander - This aspect of the deck means that deck digging is not necessary to access your combo, merely to accelerate and protect it. This feature allows for the deck to play at a card disadvantage and to ignore virtually all resources of the game other than maintaining your permanents on board. Life total is essentially irrelevant, as are cards in hand and cards in library (as long as a combo piece has not been exiled).
Having a built in win con - Due to the fact that the win condition is so easily tutored the vast majority of the deck can be built to filter, protect and accelerate the process. This allows for a gigantic selection of cards which can be replaced based upon personal and meta-based preferences. This also allows for flexibility in deck building, an example of which would be choosing to run multiple potential win conditions or just a single more streamline one.
What Are The Major Weaknesses Of This Deck?
Although this deck has an absolutely unreal power potential, it is also much more prone to hate than your traditional EDH deck.
Being built around a commander - Due to the deck wholly relying upon Sisay, repeated, targeted hatred towards her can lead to a dismal experience. Depending on the nature of your playgroup this decklist does allow for swapping of cards to include protection effects for creatures (such as Vines of Vastwood), but this has detrimental effects on the streamline of the deck.
Single-scoped win con - In this decks current nature there are a laundry list of cards which once exiled or otherwise removed from your access can completely suffocate your combo. These cards are Bontu's Monument, Paradox Engine, Stonecloaker, and Captain Sisay. With cards like Academy Rector, Food Chain, Eternal Scourge and mana dump win conditions like Helix Pinnacle this can be avoided, allowing multiple win conditions. Once again though, inserting multiple win conditions will significantly reduce the speed and efficiency at which the main combo operates at.
Is This Deck Right For Me?
You will essentially be goldfishing 24/7 and every game will proceed in an identical, linear nature.
This deck allows for a high amount of modification.
This deck is EXPENSIVE!
With this list you either dominate or get dominated, there is no middle ground.
This deck is extremely threatening and demands targeted hatred. This does not make for good repeat games with the same playgroup.
How Do I Play This Deck?
Early Turns
In the first two turns of the game your main goal is to develop as much mana resources as possible. While lands are useful, mana rocks/dorks are much superior due to their interaction with Paradox Engine.
The only other thing that you should be trying to accomplish at this time, other than protecting your board state and looking as innocent as possible, is preparing for your Alpha strike turn. This will be the turn that Paradox Engine is played (with Sisay in play and active). We prepare for this turn by using our mana resources in such a way that we have the requisite 5 mana needed to cast Paradox Engine along with either a 0 CMC spell to follow it or the necessary mana to cast another spell in hand.
Sisay is in play
At this point we need Sisay to stick until our mana untaps. Even though we have Lightning Greaves it is nearly impossible to go off the turn Sisay is cast due to the CMC of Paradox Engine.
Alpha strike
Once Sisay is in play and we have the mana to cast our freshly tutored Paradox Engine along with a follow-up spell we are going to go for the alpha strike.
The alpha strike is accomplished by chain-casting Stonecloaker with a Bontu's Monument and at least 3 mana producing potential worth of mana dorks/rocks in play. In order to get our board state into a position where we can accomplish this we will do the following:
1. With Sisay in play we will use Sisay’s ability to tutor Paradox Engine. (Or Mox Amber/Mox Opal if PE is already in hand).
2. Once we cast Paradox Engine we will follow it up with another spell in order to trigger PE and untap our nonland permanents.
3. We will tap any mana producers that we have available to us every time PE triggers, and start tutor-chaining with Sisay in order to accrue mana.
4. A good ordering for this is Mox Amber -> Mox Opal -> Seton -> Bontu’s Monument -> Hope of Ghirapur -> Isamaru -> Oath of Nissa -> Saffi -> Skyship Weatherlight (targeting Stonecloaker).
5. Alpha strike.
From this setup it can be seen that having an abundance of 0 CMC and 1 CMC spells in your deck is virtually necessary to allow for reliable alpha strikes the turn that Paradox Engine is tutored.
THIS DECK CAN WIN WITH NO PERMANENTS OTHER THAN SISAY AND PARDOX ENGINE ON BOARD!!!
What Kind Of Opening Hand Do I Want?
In general mana rocks are better than mana dorks with the exclusion of Priest of Titania.
Having Paradox Engine in our opening hand is not bad, unless you fear hand destruction.
Mulligans do not impact this deck even slightly as much as any other combo deck I have ever played with. I would never mulligan aggressively, as our main goal with our opening hand is mana dorks/rocks, but I would gladly mulligan any hand that looked expressly slow.
Reasoning Behind Card Selection
Bow of Nylea - Tutorable by Sisay and mainly acts as a recursion engine for any combo pieces that were yarded. Also offers removal and life gain options.
0 CMC Spells - There are 15 0 CMC spells in this deck. Ideally you want one for your alpha strike turn in order to proc PE.
Dosan the Falling Leaf - Tutorable by Sisay and can prevent counter-magic.
Walking Ballista - On top of being a 0 CMC spell, this can also act as a mana dump if Bontu's Monument has been exiled and you can climb the infinite mana ladder.
Leyline of Sanctity - A filler card that can protect you. It will generally never be cast, just played from your opening hand. This card has playtested very mediocre, but has a gigantic potential upside.
Silence - One of the best cards in the deck. If you have 6 mana on your alpha strike turn and a 0 CMC spell then you can silence before you start your combo, if the silence resolves your only potential interruption will be triggered/activated abilities.
Angel's Grace - Another semi-filler card that has playtested very mediocre, but has the potential of a gigantic upside. Shutting down other people's combos and also serving as a 1 CMC spell to potentially trigger PE.
Apostle's Blessing - Cheap protection for Sisay.
Noxious Revival - Another potential recursion tool and a 0 CMC spell to trigger PE.
Urza's Ruinous Blast - If you have to cast this card you are really hurting in the first place. As such this card could likely be removed, but it does offer answers to those pesky artifacts and white enchantments that shut your combo down and is tutorable by Sisay.
Wildfield Borderpost - This card is not that great for early game acceleration, but it can help if you are short on land drops and is effective when PE is in play.
Strip Mine - This card is mainly for destroying Cradles and Tabernacles.
Tormod's Crypt - Another 0 CMC spell that can shut down several other combo decks.
Other Playable Cards/Gimmicks
Reki, the History of Kamigawa/Hazoret's Monument - Tutorable by Sisay, falls into the 3 CMC and under range which means it can be cast as part of the Sisay loop for free, and also offers card draw options for deck digging.
City of Solitude & Grand Abolisher - Both of these cards can be great additions to your deck if you are playing in counter-heavy metas. I would not mainboard cards of this ilk though due to the relatively low occurrence of early-game counter spells in multiplayer EDH.
Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor - This is another potential ramping mechanism for the deck. While this is 100% playable (especially since GSZ has a CMC of 1), I have avoided this route due to the nature of Paradox Engine not untapping lands.
Cycle cards - Cycling is a very strong tool for this deck, allowing for even more streamlining of a deck which already has an extremely narrow scope. I would not recommend using cards that cycle for more than 1 due to the mana hungry nature of this deck though.
Food Chain - As mentioned above this can be combined with the likes of Eternal Scourge to create infinite mana and tutored with Academy Rector. (Claws of Gix is worth keeping in mind for this combo along with cards like Miren, the Moaning Well).
Vines of Vastwood/Faith's Shield - This was discussed above already, but is worth mentioning again for high hate metas.
Green Creature Tutors - As opposed to going the Skyship Weatherlight route it is very possible to build around cards like Eldritch Evolution, Eladamri's Call and Altar of Bone.
Lodestone Bauble - Another solid 0 CMC spell. Although this spell alone might not be worth mentioning, I am including this to once again highlight the importance of including a substantial 0 CMC package.
Land Tax - 1 mana spell that can potentially provide mana fixing and deck thinning. All around solid.
Helm of Awakening - This card is extremely powerful with this deck, but when it is most effective it will generally remain in play for more than one turn allowing your opponents to benefit off of it as well.
Conclusion
I could continue to write about this deck for hours, and will continue to expand this with individual interactions present in the deck, changelogs and more alternative playable cards, but for now I will leave it at this. In my opinion the greatest aspect of this deck is the flexibility that it has exhibited with its decklist while still maintaining a very competitive nature. As such I would love to get some outside advice on my current list from more experienced eyes.
Thank you for reading!
Changelog
Removed - Seeker of Skybreak; Added - Apostle's Blessing
Removed - Cast Out; Added - Hope of Ghirapur
Removed - Reki, the History of Kamigawa; Added - Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Removed - Hazoret's Monument; Added - Walking Ballista
The main differences I have to yours is running different protection and a completely different way of winning. You've given me some great ideas, the Welding Jar, Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble are cards that I'll add to mine.
Your meta is different to mine, as there is always at least two blue counterspell heavy decks at a table in any given game, and tons of disruption. So I have to run Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Dragonlord Dromoka, Conqueror's Flail, Hope of Ghirapur. If I don't then I'm going to be met 100% with a counterspell or similar, as they know the game plan.
My suggestion for "tech" cards is Apostle's Blessing, Lapse of Certainty. Lapse comes of a bit of a shock to people who have tried to prepared for you.
Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger is better than Seeker of Skybreak. You don't have summoning sickness for use and you can do it once per opponents turn as well.
I swear by Thousand-Year Elixir.
Sylvan Library is normally a slam dunk, but can understand if you feel it's not on plan enough.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I have debated pretty much every card listed there. I need to practice playtesting with the creatures that can bounce for a forest return, I should have enough fetches for it to be practical. Wildfield Borderpost has been an excellent addition to the deck and has similar limitations. That being said, neither the ranger nor the scryb can benefit from Paradox Engine so I feel like they are innately a little weaker than their CMC to ability ratio would indicate.
As far as Thousand-Year Elixir goes I feel like it is strictly a win-more card in this current list. When Sisay and PE are in play and the deck is not being obstructed your board state generally does not matter. This deck can win with 0 other permanents in play (no lands, no nothing other than PE and Sisay) due to the presence of Mox Opal, Mox Amber, Reki, Hazoret's and Seton in the library. It is also worth mentioning that several spells can be replaced with low CMC legendary minions, such as Isamaru, Hound of Konda to increase the length of this loop, in turn improving your chances for a win when your board state has been hated into the ground or immediately preceding an Urza's Ruinous Blast. That being said, I have not included these cards because after extensive goldfishing it seems that there are enough legendaries in the deck to consistently muck out wins with no other permanents on board.
Apostle's Blessing is an auto-include and belongs on the first changelog I create. I am usnure of Lapse of Certainty due to the absurdly high CMC (I NEVER have those mana resources available instant-speed unless I already lost the battle to win in the early turns), but does make me think that Mana Tithe could potentially be another great include.
Hope of Ghirapur strictly just belongs in this decklist as well. Nothing but upsides.
If I'm casting Paradox Engine (with ability to stop disruption), then I've won, literally. So the argument of Seeker of Skybreak is better under PE doesn't seem correct to me. You can just do so much more with Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger when you don't have PE, and this is when the game is important. My deck is configured a little land lighter, so I can make use of bouncing the forest as well, to provide the land drops for the turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The argument here is sacrificing streamline for flexibility. This deck does not care about flexibility in the least. That is another type of Sisay deck.
This deck is not made for casual play groups where people are running mana leak and fatal push. This is intended for Tournaments where every single deck is trying to either win or lock down board state in the first few turns. And decks running a preponderance of Fatal Push/Mana Leak effects pretty much cannot win in those settings. Sisay still gets sworded quite frequently, but including thousand year elixir would not make my alpha strike come a single turn sooner since Sisay needs to be tabled to win.
I also pulled Seeker of Skybreak altogether. Bouncing lands just is not as good for this deck as mana dorks are. If I bounce a land to cast Sisay then I will be one land short for PE. Meaning that Scryb and Ranger require dorks that tap for double to be in play to produce any upside, whereas Seeker does not. There just aren't enough double mana producing dorks to create upside for these cards IMO.
Breakfast Hulk has a fish bowl win rate on turn 2.81, meaning it wins on turn 2, almost as much as it wins on turn 3.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The suggestions you are referring to expressly slow this deck down. That would do nothing but hurt my matchup with Breakfast Hulk.
What an asinine comment...
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
The only time this would create an upside is when I get the miracle Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox starting hand and that happens so rarely that building a deck around that opening hand is not beneficial. On top of that with Halls I would be reducing my colored mana by one meaning I would need an additional chrome mox effect in hand to go off on turn 2. Which has to occur in less than .1% of starting hands.
As far as legendary lands go, they really serve no purpose. Pendlehaven only produces 1 mana and has realistically no upside other than being able to be tutored. I rarely have untapped lands up at instant speed to protect my creatures, and when I do a vines/sejiri steppe effect would be much better. But I already have legendary lands which can be tutored if needed that are vastly superior. The coal of this deck is to run as few legendaries as possible, allowing for the streamlining of the ones that do occur. Ash Barrens is in the deck merely due to it's cycle ability and sejiri steppe gives crop rotation added value. I could see pulling Sejiri out, but I would rather replace it with an untapped mana source that produces green and white due to the sorcery-speed nature of this deck.
Armageddon could definitely have a place in this deck. It is a very common theme with Sisay to run Land D, but once again when I have that much mana to cast I should be outright winning anyways, meaning land destruction is actually a weaker alternative.
The intention is to bring a Sisay deck that my store has never played against in order to catch the first few tables unawares until I get to the point where my deck isn't anymore threatening than the other decks at the later tables even if my deck is slightly underpowered it should HOPEFULLY see less premeditated hate simply because Sisay has never been recognized as tier 1 in our meta and ideally the deck will only receive direct combo-blocking hatred.
Sadly, it seems like most of the suggestions here are for a casual meta as opposed to a go big or go home meta, which is unfortunately the meta this deck has to survive in. Interruption is not useless, but when four people are all trying to combo off on turns 2-4 it is always beneficial to be the one relying on others to provide the necessary hatred to prevent the game from ending as opposed to being the person that wasted a card and a turn's worth of mana without progressing their win-con.
Thanks.
I think you need to take a moment and chill, my dude. darrenhabib made a lot of great suggestions for your deck, but because he made a few suggestions you didn't like, you insult him and tell him to leave the thread? You had not even considered Hope of Ghirapur, a very obvious inclusion, before he suggested it, so he was definitely able to contribute to your deck.
It seems to me that you are building this deck towards a very specific local meta. I find it odd that you say the deck you are most concerned about is Arcum. Arcum does not hold a relevant meta share online. Your meta is certainly a competitive one, but when you talk about a tournament setting, I think of a very different set of decks being successful, like Breakfast Hulk, Shimmer Zur, or Thrasios/Vial. It's fine if that's not the meta you're building your deck toward, but you should consider the possibility that the reason you don't like the suggestions you're getting is not because they're not relevant to a competitive deck, but simply that they're not relevant to your own specific goals.
How recently have you played in this tournament setting? You mention having played a few years ago, at which time I remember glass-cannon combo being far and away the norm. However, in the online cEDH meta recently, I've been seeing plenty of interaction being played. Sure, blue decks no longer contain Mana Leak but they do contain Force of Will, Delay, Flusterstorm, Swords to Plowshares, and a number of other reactive spells.
I understand that 1-for-1 removal in a multiplayer situation is putting yourself at a disadvantage, however, it is a necessary evil to accept that occasionally, some decks will go off before you and you will need to provide an answer. To believe that your deck will always combo off first is arrogant, and to dismiss the games where someone else goes off before you as lost, I feel, will lose you valuable win%, which matters a lot in a tournament setting. Relying only on other players to answer cards for you is not a competitive mindset.
The most established Paradox Sisay list online plays interactive spells and even its own stax package. Sisay's fastest combo turn is slower than the fastest combo decks in the meta, so evolving your deck into a midrange combo list will net you wins.
Now, if you're not playing against other storm decks constantly in your local meta, the Stax package may not be for you. That's a personal call.
Now, as far as suggestions go, I would absolutely be playing Swords to Plowshares. Path giving out a free land isn't always great, and is extra downside on top of playing 1-for-1 removal, but if you ever do happen to run into Ooze or Hulk decks at least having the possibility to have Swords in hand is worth it.
Rhys the Redeemed is strictly better than Isamaru, Hound of Konda because he is castable for G/W and not just W.
Skyship Weatherlight is outdated. Inventors' Fair is the go-to tutor piece. It costs a land drop, but this is mitigated by playing Azusa, Lost But Seeking (which you should also be playing). As a side note, Azusa would also make Quirion ranger a better inclusion.
Actually, in addition to Quirion Ranger, Thousand-Year Elixir and some other suggestions you have lambasted as being uncompetitive are inclusions in the aforementioned cEDH Paradox Sisay list tuned to be played in optimized metas online.
Sejiri Steppe is a gimmick and a very dead card to have in the hand and should be dropped. Same goes for both the zero-mana buables. They aren't tutorable, and with access now to both Mox Opal and Mox Amber you shouldn't need to clog any of your deck slots with sub-par extenders - you should make enough mana to go infinite quite easily by just tapping Sisay.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Question: Why do Bontu's Monument when you could Inventor's Fair, tutor Cloudstone Curio, and then draw through your library with Reki, the History of Kamigawa until you reach Blind Obedience and then life-drain everybody by bouncing a couple two mana creatures?
Inventor's Fair doesn't take up a spell slot, and Blind Obedience is decent against several types of combo decks in Commander already so its inclusion is reasonable (Splinter Twin players have to remove Obedience before going off, for example, and Grixis Storm and Jhoira Cheerios dislikes it greatly). So you'd really be running only two cards for the sake of the combo in Curio and Reki, whereas in yours you run Oath of Nissa, Isamaru, Skyship Weatherlight *and* Stonecloacker. Consolidating these down from 4 pieces to 2-3 seems reasonable, even if both combos aren't exactly the 'optimized' lines.
My personal Sisay list uses Selvala, Explorer Returned and Thousand-Year Elixir as the payload to draw everyone out but myself. I was already running Thousand-Year Elixir and Green Sun's Zenith, so I just swapped which Selvala my deck was running, lol. Takes very few pieces that are dead without the others. This combo line is a bit more restrictive than the Bontu's Monument/Curio/Blasting Station/Bow of Nylea + Saffi lines, but I commonly have to play Sisay against Food Chain decks (Tazri, Prossh), Gitrog, Grixis Storm, ADN/DD Zur, etc., and each one of those is faster than Sisay, lol, so I'm usually playing defense and casting stuff like t2 Eidolon of Rhetoric to even have time to cast and tap my Commander.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.