Been thinking about running Ensnaring Bridge and when testing today it was a bit awkward but could easily have been very good if didn't need to draw w/ will to hit land drops. It's easy enough to get to 3 cards in hand, which Rowan can usually clean up.
Yeah I've been thinking about Ensnaring Bridge as well. I'm going to try it over Meishin, the Mind Cage, simply for mana cost. Hoping to get more early plays out of cards, when of course a lot of the games are decided.
Having a few filter cards, and even ones that come with "card disadvantage" has benefits with Ensnaring Bridge.
Even though Jace, the Mind Sculptor is such a hall-mark for Magic the Gathering in general, not quite doing enough for multiplayer.
Just not enough instants and sorceries to make Past in Flames consistently good. Inexorable Tide just a little slow. Would require playing more cantrip cards like Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, etc, to really make this card get proper value. Teferi's Isle is just way to awkward for the Rowan emblem benefits.
Wanted some more artifact mana.
With Ensnaring Bridge, Chrome Mox card disadvantage gains a bit more value.
we are at the point in which our deck is changing quite a bit. While i used your decklist as the backbone, with all the tweaks you are doing our decks are changing.
I actually removed Ral Zarke yesterday fro Paradox engine. (Felt his ult was just too awkward to pull off without having D. Season, and his +1 while good is not always the best. (though, there are situation in which it could kill a creature if i pair it with Rowan's -2 ability... hmm maybe i should put him back in.
Looking to reduce to 100 (Or add something I missed). Wanting Chain Veil combo or mass destruction wins. Any thoughts?
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
we are at the point in which our deck is changing quite a bit. While i used your decklist as the backbone, with all the tweaks you are doing our decks are changing.
I actually removed Ral Zarke yesterday fro Paradox engine. (Felt his ult was just too awkward to pull off without having D. Season, and his +1 while good is not always the best. (though, there are situation in which it could kill a creature if i pair it with Rowan's -2 ability... hmm maybe i should put him back in.
I need to put the Paradox Engine in, I've been working towards it by putting in more artifact mana.
You will need to run more lands, it is a very mana hungry deck, so you'd need to hit land drops every turn. The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale I consider a spell, so wouldn't count it as a land. Yeah I'd love to include it, tried to trade for one back in the day, but alas.
Anyone bring up Elite Arcanist yet? Happens to combo with both Kenrith's emblems.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Is there anything out there that gets your walkers back when someone steals them? Had a guy who got Empress Galina triggers stacked to get three per turn plus a Seedborn Muse allowing him to steal three legendary permanents on everyone's turn. My walkers were an easy target. Is there anything that returns cards to their owner's control similar to Homeward Path
Is there anything out there that gets your walkers back when someone steals them? Had a guy who got Empress Galina triggers stacked to get three per turn plus a Seedborn Muse allowing him to steal three legendary permanents on everyone's turn. My walkers were an easy target. Is there anything that returns cards to their owner's control similar to Homeward Path
Honestly, that just sounds like good beats, given that Empress Galina was part of their 99 as well. There is enough creature kill in the deck to have a good game plan of beating her on most occasions.
Is there anything out there that gets your walkers back when someone steals them? Had a guy who got Empress Galina triggers stacked to get three per turn plus a Seedborn Muse allowing him to steal three legendary permanents on everyone's turn. My walkers were an easy target. Is there anything that returns cards to their owner's control similar to Homeward Path
An overloaded Cyclonic Rift will return all your nonland permanents to your hand. If it's a meta call than try Brand.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Is there anything out there that gets your walkers back when someone steals them? Had a guy who got Empress Galina triggers stacked to get three per turn plus a Seedborn Muse allowing him to steal three legendary permanents on everyone's turn. My walkers were an easy target. Is there anything that returns cards to their owner's control similar to Homeward Path
An overloaded Cyclonic Rift will return all your nonland permanents to your hand. If it's a meta call than try Brand.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Commander 2018 spoilers are coming out and already pretty interested in some cards.
Forge of Heroes will be making the deck, easy to drop another land, to speed up Loyalty counters.
I do think that Geode Golem is an interesting card for this deck. Already established from rules guys that you can't cast both partners in the same turn off this trigger, but it does allow you to cast one for free, allowing you mana up for casting the other OR mana freed up for casting other spells for protection.
This card is a little bit better with multiple commanders (parnters), because you have the potetnial to use it's ability in sequential turns if your commander remains in play.
If you just have the one commander, then you might not get value in following turns.
I am testing Saheeli, the Gifted instead of Chandra, Bold Pyromancer. The reduction cost to cast the next spell was great with Teferi, Temporal Archmage, the Chain Veil, mana rocks and those kind of things to go infinite. But that Chandra is nice to kill everyone if you go infinite. I think both are good, but I don't know what to change to play Chandra Bold Pyromancer again.
I've been looking at Saheeli, the Gifted as a general for a deck. She is crazy powerful with the right draw and decks. I mean it is possible to consistently cast an Enter the Infinite the following turn you cast her.
The only thing is that provides colorless and only good for one spell. So I personally do like the colored portion that Chandra Bold Pyromancer, but Saheeli, the Gifted is for sure a strong card.
They are so good in the 99 as well as commanders, because of the ability to search for the other, so you get a two-for-one. Pretty unfair if you ask me.
This is a little speculative, but the price of Will Kenrith is around $8 at the moment. Rowan Kenrith is around $6.
Now I think these guys will have a similar history to Commander 2014 Teferi, Temporal Archmage where people didn't really know what they had at the time.
Now for sure Rowan Kenrith is the least powerful to play, but because of this come-one-come all with "partner with", it brings her value up. Will Kenrith is one of the most powerful planeswalker of all time.
I think over the next couple of years it's going to take a while for people to figure out their power and use in the 99. What I'm getting at is, that I think their price will probably at least double in the next 4 years, so I'd pick up a copy of these if you're into speculation pricing.
Anyway as far as my own personal deck, the only changes I've made is adding Forge of Heroes and Coveted Jewel from Commander 2018.
Forge of Heroes can get you to your ultimate's a bit quicker. It's particularly nice with the Rowen emblem as it means that you get to double up on the loyalty counters.
I replaced Pyramid of the Pantheon with Coveted Jewel , just because it's a better draw later on in the game. I found the Pyramid a little slow if you draw it late game. But I still want effects for Paradox Engine, and Coveted Jewel does only loses control if a you are attacked, so means they can't send creatures at your planeswalkers to get the change of control and draw.
I wanted to try the Ensnaring Bridge, but I found it to be a little bit inconsistent. Sometimes it's good, but dumping your hand is stressful, you are forced into committing cards that you might not ordinarily want to.
So decided to remove it for a bit more mana ramp in Darksteel Ingot, which can survive the mass removal effects.
I have been infatuated with the Kenriths since I saw them spoiled for Battlebond. I had been working on a deck list for a couple months before I found your post. My thoughts on my inclusions were all very similar to yours and our lists ended up almost the same aside from your mana base being far superior to mine, but there are a couple of cards I was curious about in your list.
I have been infatuated with the Kenriths since I saw them spoiled for Battlebond. I had been working on a deck list for a couple months before I found your post. My thoughts on my inclusions were all very similar to yours and our lists ended up almost the same aside from your mana base being far superior to mine, but there are a couple of cards I was curious about in your list.
Heart of Kiran can be crewed by taking a loyalty counter off a planeswalker, so it is a 4/4 flyer which can kill a lot of creatures threatening to attack them. So it might not even be that you have to crew it, it's going to be enough that creatures can't attack into you without causalities.
But it's also part of an infinite combo. I thought I had explained it in the primer but seem to not have explained it well. Heart of Kiran can in fact be used to purposeful send Will Kenrith back to the commander zone, by removing all his loyalty counters.
This way you get to recast him and use an ability again.
You might look to do this if you have Paradox Engine with artifacts that produce at least UU. Because Will [-2] makes planeswalkers cost 2 less, that means when you activate the ability it is always going to cover the commulative commander tax.
So you can just keep drawing 2 cards. It's one of the reasons that I put a high premium on Gilded Lotus and Coveted Jewel as you can get the UU for this.
You can also look to do this with Dream Halls. It's not deterministic, because you need to draw into blue cards off his [-2] ability.
Obviously the downside to this is that you are racking up commander tax, so if you pass the turn, then unless you get infinite again, you'll probably not be casting him again.
Because you can wait for an attack in on your planeswalkers and then cast Reins of Power targeting another opponent. You "exchange" creatures, and you can setup for some really big blowouts, by lining up blocks that can kill of both sets of opponents creatures.
So 'Opponent A' is attacking with creatures, then I cast Reins of Power swapping creatures with 'Opponent B'. I block 'Opponent A' creatures with 'Opponent B cretures', likely killing a bunch.
Because the deck is essentially creature-less, there is almost no downside. The only time this card could be really bad is if 'Opponent A' sends some creatures at me AND some creatures at 'Opponent B'. Because then 'Opponent B' could line up some bad blocks to kill off my creatures. But this scenario never comes up in this deck.
So you can almost think of this as a way to kill off two opponents creatures. Doesn't always line up like that, but it is a really good card to make opponents think twice about attacking you with all their creatures as well. So once your meta knows you potentially have it, it might save you some damage even if you don't draw it all game.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is just a great little creature. It can filter cards, help with mana screw or mana flooding or get you deeper into action cards. But literally on the flip side you can get value out of your instants and soceries. I do rate this guy at 2 mana.
Jace, Architect of Thought can provide protection with the -1/0 ability and this can be useful against go wide strategies. The [-2] does get you deep into your library for action. The ultimate is particularly good, you can really look to end the game. You setup the [-8] with the Deepglow Skate. For example you can get the biggest creatures/threats from opponents library and get Obliterate from yours, making sure you cast that first. Jace, Architect of Thought isn't amazing for the deck, but he does have value.
Yeah a few people have recommend Expropriate and honestly it's just because I don't have it. It is mana intensive as well. I think if I can get Saheeli, the Gifted into the deck then I'll look at Expropriate as an addition.
Just too many cards in the deck that can be countered to warrant Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Like opponents will still have an opportunity to disrupt you because you're still looking to land planeswalkers and artifacts. The coming into play tapped and life-loss does add up.
Tezzeret, Artifice Master is a little slow I think. The [0] draw is pretty nice but can't always guarantee you'll have 3 artifacts to draw 2. [0] is not building up to an ultimate either. The [+1] for a 1/1 is just not doing enough. The ultimate is pretty good, but from the example I showed you with Jace, Architect of Thought it is a little slow as well.
Mu Yanling [+2] and [-10] don't work with the deck at all, so all you're using her for is the [-3] draw 2 cards. Now this is nice, but you literally have to have an infinite combo, otherwise you get to use the ability to draw once, then next turn have to [+2] which does nothing to get another use out of her.
Ral, Izzet Viceroy would need extra support to work I think. It's similar to the reason that I don't have Jaya Ballard in the deck in that you need a certain threshold of instants and soceries to be effective. Now I used to have Past in Flames and Mizzix's Mastery in the deck. If there was say 8 more instants and soceries in the deck, then he might be valid.
There is absolutely Will and Rowan decks that are instants and soceries focused and not on the planewalker plan as much and Ral, Izzet Viceroy and Jaya Ballard will be great in them.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I overlooked the Heart of Kiran infinite because I always forget you can continuously crew vehicles, I'll make sure to include it. Reins of Power kind of counts on two players playing creatures, only one player in my play group uses a creature deck so I think I might leave it out of my deck for now. You sold me on the Jace cards. Boseiju was to prevent the extra turn cards from getting countered more than any other cards, because most players would never let you resolve them if they had a choice in it. I see your point on Tezzeret and Yanling, they don't really do enough outside of Chain Veil loops. I was thinking Ral would be good because of his unconditional digging for 2 every turn and his ultimate in particular is game ending, there's still 28 instant and sorceries in the deck to maybe get some value out of the minus ability.
I think for now I'll run Expropriate in place of Reins of Power, and maybe try out Ral, Izzet Viceroy when I get my hands on him.
I took your most recent build of this out for a spin. One card that came to mind as something that potentially had a place in this deck is Disrupt Decorum. There were many instances where I felt that if I could hold off attackers for just one turn, that I would have been able to really get something going.
Also...I am interested to see how other people utilize extra turn spells in the early game. I had an early Ral in my game and I was using the extra turn spells to bump up his loyalty and to help me hit land drops and "ramp". Does this seem right? Perhaps I was being a little impatient?
I took your most recent build of this out for a spin. One card that came to mind as something that potentially had a place in this deck is Disrupt Decorum. There were many instances where I felt that if I could hold off attackers for just one turn, that I would have been able to really get something going.
Also...I am interested to see how other people utilize extra turn spells in the early game. I had an early Ral in my game and I was using the extra turn spells to bump up his loyalty and to help me hit land drops and "ramp". Does this seem right? Perhaps I was being a little impatient?
Any planeswalker deck is bound by small windows of opportunity, and they are very hard to find. You really are hoping for very specific cards to give you traction.
The absolute best ones are instants, ones that you can play just before your turn, so that you can play a planeswalker to try and get ahead.
I do feel like Disrupt Decorum is still a sorcery that only has a single turn reprieve. The problem is that you really need to be casting a planeswalker along side it in the same turn otherwise it's not doing a lot. So lets say average PW is 4 mana, that's still 8 mana you need before the card is useful.
Where as something like Domineering Will, although it's still 4 mana, you can use it as an instant in opponents turn to try and blow out some opponents by grabbing 3 creatures from one opponent and blocking creatures attacking into you from another. The upside is that you can look to permanently remove some creatures, as well as it gives you the opportunity to untap and play a planeswalker into a relatively clear board.
As far as extra turns, it's all good and well to say that you should be as patient as possible with them, but honestly, it's easy to just be under pressure from creatures attacking you, because at the end of the day it is basically a creatureless deck, and people like to hate people who have planeswalker decks, true story.
So often I find I'll just be casting extra turn cards literally just to get another land drop and draw.
But your best play is to have 9 mana, cast Will Kenrith and [-2] and then cast one of the 5 mana (at 3 mana) extra turn cards. That really sets you up, but requires a lot of time obviously.
Thanks for your insight. I not sure that I agree entirely with your analysis of my suggestion. Disrupt Decorum is good for the following reasons....
1) it guarantees that no opponent can attack you for one full round of turns.
2) it will tap most of your opponents creatures making the smaller ones open to damage from Rownan’s Minus ability.
3) it provides an opportunity to create dissention amongst your opponents. Plus it’s puts their focus on a different problem to solve.
Domineering Will seems like there are situations where it’s great, but it also would only make your Opponents more aggressive to you afterwards. Plus it also only deals with 1 attack phase. As you even said people like to hate on Planeswalker decks. I kind of think that this card helps better than some other options on the list.
Ok, so we can all assume that you want to make one of the emblems as soon as possible. This requires surviving two of each of our opponents turns without damage. The first turn we have a Kenrith on the table is important as we need to have a way of protecting them after spending 6 mana to cast them. The second turn is easier to survive as we have access to all our mana to use on protection.
The point with Disrupt Decorum was that while it protects your walkers for a turn, it can't really do it the turn you play that planeswalker and you want as many cards that can to ensure you can pull it off. You'd need 10 mana to cast Will/Rowan and Disrupt Decorum (assuming it's their first cast). If you have an instant that can protect them for a turn, then you can play it in the end step before your turn in which you cast Will/Rowan effectively letting you cast it for free at the cost of your previous turn.
Well Will & Rowan Kenrith have finally been released on Magic Online, so I've been playing the deck there over the last couple of days.
The downside is that there are so many triggers and mouse clicks, especially when you are accumulating Rowan emblems. But that's cool, it's still fun.
I decided not to put in the mass land destruction for online, because it's less competitive and people hate it and sort of considered a no-no.
So no Jokulhaups or Obliterate.
Right so this is a meta call, but equipment is super popular online. It's the hexproof and shroud, and also ones that give haste or trample, which can cause me problems. Like I literally have to deal with at least a couple each game.
I can't use Will Kenrith [+2] on creatures I want to. Same with Maze of Ith and Spires of Orazca.
Haste equipment also is hard to navigate around.
Things like Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Whispersilk Cloak. And even the Swords which have +2/+2 bonuses prove to be a pain if you've 0/3 their creatures.
Also Sensei's Divining Top is a must in the deck. Once you get a Rowan emblem, then you can draw a card for each 1 which is actually super relevant in games to get actions. I've been playing it for a while, but noticed I didn't update the deck list here.
If you have Tezzeret the Seeker then it's nice to have the option of the draw. Especially good with the Rowan emblem as you can Tezzeret [-2] and get Grim Monolith (which give infinite colorless with Rowan emblem) and Sensei's Divining Top, which will allow you to draw your deck. I removed Leyline of Anticipation a while ago.
Having a few filter cards, and even ones that come with "card disadvantage" has benefits with Ensnaring Bridge.
Chandra Ablaze
Faithless Looting
Firestorm
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Even these filter planeswalkers are a little better as the "problem" with Ensnaring Bridge is that you get stuck with cards in hand. These allow you to pitch high costing cards.
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Jaya Ballard
Added
+ Chrome Mox
+ Coalition Relic
+ Ensnaring Bridge
+ Nexus of Fate
+ Island
Removed
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Past in Flames
- Inexorable Tide
- Meishin, the Mind Cage
- Teferi's Isle
Even though Jace, the Mind Sculptor is such a hall-mark for Magic the Gathering in general, not quite doing enough for multiplayer.
Just not enough instants and sorceries to make Past in Flames consistently good.
Inexorable Tide just a little slow. Would require playing more cantrip cards like Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, etc, to really make this card get proper value.
Teferi's Isle is just way to awkward for the Rowan emblem benefits.
Wanted some more artifact mana.
With Ensnaring Bridge, Chrome Mox card disadvantage gains a bit more value.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I actually removed Ral Zarke yesterday fro Paradox engine. (Felt his ult was just too awkward to pull off without having D. Season, and his +1 while good is not always the best. (though, there are situation in which it could kill a creature if i pair it with Rowan's -2 ability... hmm maybe i should put him back in.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/twins-superfriends-combo/
Looking to reduce to 100 (Or add something I missed). Wanting Chain Veil combo or mass destruction wins. Any thoughts?
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Added
+ Paradox Engine
Removed
- Expedition Map
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Also with running the big draw cards like Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, Time Spiral you should play High Tide. So look to up your basic Islands.
I'd remove Shivan Reef, Command Tower, Sulfur Falls for Islands.
In theory Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon are going to offset your "Mountain" count in some games, so you might only need to run 1 more basic Mountain to offset removing these.
I'd only run Academy Ruins and not Buried Ruin.
You will need to run more lands, it is a very mana hungry deck, so you'd need to hit land drops every turn.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale I consider a spell, so wouldn't count it as a land. Yeah I'd love to include it, tried to trade for one back in the day, but alas.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Isochron scepter does the same thing. (But with a smaller spell) (And the reason why Time Walk is banned)
Speaking of Scepters, I was also looking at Magistrate's Scepter.
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WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
The rest that can give Hexproof or Shroud to planewalkers are outside of colors: Privileged Position, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Simic Charm, Heroic Intervention.
Honestly, that just sounds like good beats, given that Empress Galina was part of their 99 as well. There is enough creature kill in the deck to have a good game plan of beating her on most occasions.
[EDIT]
There are heaps of return all permanents to owners hands like, Coastal Breach, Crush of Tentacles, Devastation Tide, River's Rebuke, Wash Out.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
An overloaded Cyclonic Rift will return all your nonland permanents to your hand. If it's a meta call than try Brand.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
That's exactly what I need. Thank you
as for C.rift. It only returns permanents you don't control. Keep that in mind. It specifically states that you do not control.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Exactly, your stolen nonland permanents.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Forge of Heroes will be making the deck, easy to drop another land, to speed up Loyalty counters.
I do think that Geode Golem is an interesting card for this deck. Already established from rules guys that you can't cast both partners in the same turn off this trigger, but it does allow you to cast one for free, allowing you mana up for casting the other OR mana freed up for casting other spells for protection.
This card is a little bit better with multiple commanders (parnters), because you have the potetnial to use it's ability in sequential turns if your commander remains in play.
If you just have the one commander, then you might not get value in following turns.
Too be honest kind of want to give it a go.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The only thing is that provides colorless and only good for one spell. So I personally do like the colored portion that Chandra Bold Pyromancer, but Saheeli, the Gifted is for sure a strong card.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm mean I've literally added Will Kenrith to my 99 for Aminatou, the Fateshifter, and added both Will Kenrith and Rowan Kenrith to the 99 for my Saheeli, the Gifted deck.
You can check them out with links in my signature.
They are so good in the 99 as well as commanders, because of the ability to search for the other, so you get a two-for-one. Pretty unfair if you ask me.
This is a little speculative, but the price of Will Kenrith is around $8 at the moment. Rowan Kenrith is around $6.
Now I think these guys will have a similar history to Commander 2014 Teferi, Temporal Archmage where people didn't really know what they had at the time.
Now for sure Rowan Kenrith is the least powerful to play, but because of this come-one-come all with "partner with", it brings her value up. Will Kenrith is one of the most powerful planeswalker of all time.
I think over the next couple of years it's going to take a while for people to figure out their power and use in the 99. What I'm getting at is, that I think their price will probably at least double in the next 4 years, so I'd pick up a copy of these if you're into speculation pricing.
Anyway as far as my own personal deck, the only changes I've made is adding Forge of Heroes and Coveted Jewel from Commander 2018.
Forge of Heroes can get you to your ultimate's a bit quicker. It's particularly nice with the Rowen emblem as it means that you get to double up on the loyalty counters.
I replaced Pyramid of the Pantheon with Coveted Jewel , just because it's a better draw later on in the game. I found the Pyramid a little slow if you draw it late game. But I still want effects for Paradox Engine, and Coveted Jewel does only loses control if a you are attacked, so means they can't send creatures at your planeswalkers to get the change of control and draw.
Added
+ Forge of Heroes
+ Coveted Jewel
+ Darksteel Ingot
Removed
- Field of Ruin
- Pyramid of the Pantheon
- Ensnaring Bridge
I wanted to try the Ensnaring Bridge, but I found it to be a little bit inconsistent. Sometimes it's good, but dumping your hand is stressful, you are forced into committing cards that you might not ordinarily want to.
So decided to remove it for a bit more mana ramp in Darksteel Ingot, which can survive the mass removal effects.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Could you perhaps elaborate on why you include Heart of Kiran, Reins of Power, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Jace, Architect of Thought? I quite like Expropriate, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Tezzeret, Artifice Master and Mu Yanling, are there any reasons you don't include them? Do you have any thoughts on the new Ral, Izzet Viceroy?
But it's also part of an infinite combo. I thought I had explained it in the primer but seem to not have explained it well.
Heart of Kiran can in fact be used to purposeful send Will Kenrith back to the commander zone, by removing all his loyalty counters.
This way you get to recast him and use an ability again.
You might look to do this if you have Paradox Engine with artifacts that produce at least UU. Because Will [-2] makes planeswalkers cost 2 less, that means when you activate the ability it is always going to cover the commulative commander tax.
So you can just keep drawing 2 cards. It's one of the reasons that I put a high premium on Gilded Lotus and Coveted Jewel as you can get the UU for this.
You can also look to do this with Dream Halls. It's not deterministic, because you need to draw into blue cards off his [-2] ability.
Obviously the downside to this is that you are racking up commander tax, so if you pass the turn, then unless you get infinite again, you'll probably not be casting him again.
Because you can wait for an attack in on your planeswalkers and then cast Reins of Power targeting another opponent. You "exchange" creatures, and you can setup for some really big blowouts, by lining up blocks that can kill of both sets of opponents creatures.
So 'Opponent A' is attacking with creatures, then I cast Reins of Power swapping creatures with 'Opponent B'. I block 'Opponent A' creatures with 'Opponent B cretures', likely killing a bunch.
Because the deck is essentially creature-less, there is almost no downside. The only time this card could be really bad is if 'Opponent A' sends some creatures at me AND some creatures at 'Opponent B'. Because then 'Opponent B' could line up some bad blocks to kill off my creatures. But this scenario never comes up in this deck.
So you can almost think of this as a way to kill off two opponents creatures. Doesn't always line up like that, but it is a really good card to make opponents think twice about attacking you with all their creatures as well. So once your meta knows you potentially have it, it might save you some damage even if you don't draw it all game.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is just a great little creature. It can filter cards, help with mana screw or mana flooding or get you deeper into action cards. But literally on the flip side you can get value out of your instants and soceries. I do rate this guy at 2 mana.
Jace, Architect of Thought can provide protection with the -1/0 ability and this can be useful against go wide strategies. The [-2] does get you deep into your library for action. The ultimate is particularly good, you can really look to end the game. You setup the [-8] with the Deepglow Skate. For example you can get the biggest creatures/threats from opponents library and get Obliterate from yours, making sure you cast that first.
Jace, Architect of Thought isn't amazing for the deck, but he does have value.
Yeah a few people have recommend Expropriate and honestly it's just because I don't have it. It is mana intensive as well. I think if I can get Saheeli, the Gifted into the deck then I'll look at Expropriate as an addition.
Just too many cards in the deck that can be countered to warrant Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Like opponents will still have an opportunity to disrupt you because you're still looking to land planeswalkers and artifacts. The coming into play tapped and life-loss does add up.
Tezzeret, Artifice Master is a little slow I think. The [0] draw is pretty nice but can't always guarantee you'll have 3 artifacts to draw 2. [0] is not building up to an ultimate either. The [+1] for a 1/1 is just not doing enough. The ultimate is pretty good, but from the example I showed you with Jace, Architect of Thought it is a little slow as well.
Mu Yanling [+2] and [-10] don't work with the deck at all, so all you're using her for is the [-3] draw 2 cards. Now this is nice, but you literally have to have an infinite combo, otherwise you get to use the ability to draw once, then next turn have to [+2] which does nothing to get another use out of her.
Ral, Izzet Viceroy would need extra support to work I think. It's similar to the reason that I don't have Jaya Ballard in the deck in that you need a certain threshold of instants and soceries to be effective. Now I used to have Past in Flames and Mizzix's Mastery in the deck. If there was say 8 more instants and soceries in the deck, then he might be valid.
There is absolutely Will and Rowan decks that are instants and soceries focused and not on the planewalker plan as much and Ral, Izzet Viceroy and Jaya Ballard will be great in them.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I think for now I'll run Expropriate in place of Reins of Power, and maybe try out Ral, Izzet Viceroy when I get my hands on him.
Also...I am interested to see how other people utilize extra turn spells in the early game. I had an early Ral in my game and I was using the extra turn spells to bump up his loyalty and to help me hit land drops and "ramp". Does this seem right? Perhaps I was being a little impatient?
The absolute best ones are instants, ones that you can play just before your turn, so that you can play a planeswalker to try and get ahead.
I do feel like Disrupt Decorum is still a sorcery that only has a single turn reprieve. The problem is that you really need to be casting a planeswalker along side it in the same turn otherwise it's not doing a lot. So lets say average PW is 4 mana, that's still 8 mana you need before the card is useful.
Where as something like Domineering Will, although it's still 4 mana, you can use it as an instant in opponents turn to try and blow out some opponents by grabbing 3 creatures from one opponent and blocking creatures attacking into you from another. The upside is that you can look to permanently remove some creatures, as well as it gives you the opportunity to untap and play a planeswalker into a relatively clear board.
As far as extra turns, it's all good and well to say that you should be as patient as possible with them, but honestly, it's easy to just be under pressure from creatures attacking you, because at the end of the day it is basically a creatureless deck, and people like to hate people who have planeswalker decks, true story.
So often I find I'll just be casting extra turn cards literally just to get another land drop and draw.
But your best play is to have 9 mana, cast Will Kenrith and [-2] and then cast one of the 5 mana (at 3 mana) extra turn cards. That really sets you up, but requires a lot of time obviously.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
1) it guarantees that no opponent can attack you for one full round of turns.
2) it will tap most of your opponents creatures making the smaller ones open to damage from Rownan’s Minus ability.
3) it provides an opportunity to create dissention amongst your opponents. Plus it’s puts their focus on a different problem to solve.
Domineering Will seems like there are situations where it’s great, but it also would only make your Opponents more aggressive to you afterwards. Plus it also only deals with 1 attack phase. As you even said people like to hate on Planeswalker decks. I kind of think that this card helps better than some other options on the list.
The point with Disrupt Decorum was that while it protects your walkers for a turn, it can't really do it the turn you play that planeswalker and you want as many cards that can to ensure you can pull it off. You'd need 10 mana to cast Will/Rowan and Disrupt Decorum (assuming it's their first cast). If you have an instant that can protect them for a turn, then you can play it in the end step before your turn in which you cast Will/Rowan effectively letting you cast it for free at the cost of your previous turn.
The downside is that there are so many triggers and mouse clicks, especially when you are accumulating Rowan emblems. But that's cool, it's still fun.
I decided not to put in the mass land destruction for online, because it's less competitive and people hate it and sort of considered a no-no.
So no Jokulhaups or Obliterate.
Right so this is a meta call, but equipment is super popular online. It's the hexproof and shroud, and also ones that give haste or trample, which can cause me problems. Like I literally have to deal with at least a couple each game.
I can't use Will Kenrith [+2] on creatures I want to. Same with Maze of Ith and Spires of Orazca.
Haste equipment also is hard to navigate around.
Things like Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Whispersilk Cloak. And even the Swords which have +2/+2 bonuses prove to be a pain if you've 0/3 their creatures.
So I've adjusted the deck and put in artifact removal with Vandalblast and Fiery Confluence. I've also added Arcane Lighthouse to remove hexproof and shroud.
So this is a meta change for Magic Online:
Added
+ Vandalblast
+ Fiery Confluence
+ Arcane Lighthouse
+ Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
- Jokulhaups
- Obliterate
- Forge of Heroes
- Leyline of Anticipation
Forge of Heroes isn't actually available on Magic Online yet, so just played the Arcane Lighthouse instead as a colorless land.
Also Sensei's Divining Top is a must in the deck. Once you get a Rowan emblem, then you can draw a card for each 1 which is actually super relevant in games to get actions. I've been playing it for a while, but noticed I didn't update the deck list here.
If you have Tezzeret the Seeker then it's nice to have the option of the draw. Especially good with the Rowan emblem as you can Tezzeret [-2] and get Grim Monolith (which give infinite colorless with Rowan emblem) and Sensei's Divining Top, which will allow you to draw your deck. I removed Leyline of Anticipation a while ago.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith