Makes sense, I will try to roll it in at some point during the week. I have found that Arcades is never really out of any game due to the card draw and big bodies on the field.
I really like Echo of Eons as a way to recover spent cards and generate card advantage from an empty board state. Giver of Runes is more cute than anything, and we're not playing MoM as is, so she won't make the cut. Collector Ouphe is the real deal if you're in an artifact heavy playgroup, so I recommend it in niche cases. Winds of Abandon is really cool, and I think that I'll try it out in Arcades, Aminatou, and Kaalia. The art on the new Genesis is freaking awesome and it's a solid card by itself, so I could see it in the budget list or in someone's 99. I think that Generous Gift is going to be an auto-include, since it's another Beast Within effect. And who doesn't like White Elephant gift exchanges? Wall of Blossoms got reprinted, which is REALLY nice. Watcher for Tomorrow is much better than people think. Eladamri's Call got reprinted, which is nice. Soulherder is interesting, but not quite good enough for the deck methinks because I think there are better blink cards available. Very good card though.
No, I don't think Cunning Evasion is needed. Our creatures are generally the highest toughness creatures on the board, so saving them from combat damage isn't necessary. And I think there are better ways to get cast triggers from permanents. I'd rather play Crystal Shard over this enchantment since it has applications for the Wall-Ball turn.
Hi. Lurking here for a while and I modeled my Archades deck after this post. Have you checked out Soulherder? Seems like it might play well.
I think that Soulherder is a really cool card and will find a home in Brago decks. I think it's a fine inclusion in the deck after you've tried out Eldrazi Displacer. I think the Displacer does what the 'Herder does, but better.
Hey All,
My first post on MTG Salvation. Have played MTG casually since Revised, but took a 10-year hiatus due to kids. Now, I'm just discovering EDH/Commander and I LOVE the format! I finally have a great way to play those singleton bombs. Anyway, I bought of box of M19 and some starter decks to teach my 7 yo to play and pulled an Arcades and became instantly enamored with the idea of creating a functional wall deck. (I tried making a wall deck years ago and of course, it sucked!) As such I found this thread in January and have slowly been building my deck based on your thoughts. Initially, it was a hybrid between Ben's and Pufflex's deck, but it's slowly gravitated to more creature-based like Ben's. It's nearly a clone now. Thanks for all the awesome ideas guys!! (Note: I don't have a playgroup as of yet and haven't made the time to get to my LGS, so I've been playing 1v1 with a coworker; mostly against Nekusar.)
Now my questions: what are your thoughts about Mentor of the Meek vs Beast Whisperer? Without Aluren in play, seems like BW is more efficient after two creatures being cast. With Aluren, maybe not so much. But BW works with all your creatures, whereas MotM still works with only power <= 2 creatures. Of course, Ben only has 4 creatures with power > 2 in his current decklist, so MotM's ability isn't too limiting. I'm not sure about your deck Pufflex since you haven't posted your latest in awhile. Oh yeah, here's mine: https://archidekt.com/decks/88701#Arcades_Wall-Ball_Clone
Also, what are your thoughts about Prismatic Vista and Waterlogged Grove from the new Modern Horizons? Seems like Prismatic Vista is going to be an auto-include in the majority of EDH decks. Yes? However, with Waterlogged Grove I'm not sure how good that series of lands will be or where it fits in the hierarchy of dual lands. Anyway, lots of questions and I'm so looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Cheers!!
Hi ChocoDude! A short-lived welcome to MTGSal, my friend, since the site is closing down. Never fear though; a new one is in the works.
I'm pleased that the Primer has been as useful as it has been for you. That's the whole intent of writing one in the first place, so I'm delighted that it's been such a useful reference for you. I'm glad that you've discovered the best MTG format as well and welcome you to the fold.
In regards to the Mentor of the Meek vs. Beast Whisperer question: I think that the Mentor is better with the deck's core strategy because Mentor takes advantage of a creature ETB whereas the Whisperer does not. Because there is a significant presence of Blink effects in the deck, a la Eldrazi Displacer and Ghostly Flicker, the Mentor is better. Combined with a lower CMC and a more generic casting cost, I would personally encourage you to stick with the Mentor. Sure, the Whisperer works with any casting of a creature in the deck, but it doesn't synergize nearly as well with the deck in my opinion. If you're starved for card draw, then you could easily run both.
Prismatic Vista and Waterlogged Grove will definitely find homes in the deck. Now we need to wait for the allied color cycle to get fully printed. Sigh.
Well shoot. I hadn't read that article/post, until now, that this site is shutting down. Bummer. I hope the supposed replacement site will be just as good. When I started researching Commander in January, this site seemed to have the best forum in general for deck building. I don't think Tapped Out, DeskStats, Archidekt, or the other sites I've looked at are nearly as good of a resource for online discussions. Fingers crossed the new site maintains the same level of interest.
Thanks for your response Ben! Yeah, I was trying to do the math in my head about Mentor vs Whisperer. Without Aluren, I think it's a toss-up as I'm not sure we blink enough to merit the extra 1 colorless mana each time...or...at the least it's a wash. With Aluren, Mentor is a free card, so that's a decent savings and with blink...yup!! I agree that it synergies better than Whisperer AND I haven't had any problems with card draw. That's for certain. Thanks! Sidenote: I got to use the Eldrazi Displacer for the first time today. It was awesome!! I love the blink on a stick you get with it!
Hey everyone! My first post here.
Big fan of this primer. Ever since Arcades was released, I knew I wanted to do something with him, but definitely wanted to go beyond turning walls sideways. Thanks for all of the input and work! He's easily my favorite deck now.
So...with Paradox Engine getting banned, what do you think should take its place?
While not really a mechanical replacement, I was thinking of giving the new card Shared Summons a try. It being instant and able to fetch two creatures could be great for setting up something, or for general utility.
Has anyone had much luck utilizing planeswalkers? I've found that my walls have been good deterrents from attacks, and I run a few good counterspells to deter spells. I do currently run Venser, the Sojourner, and he has worked pretty well for me. I was thinking of adding in Teferi, Hero of Dominaria for some extra draw, disruption, and what's basically a win-con if you ult him.
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
First and foremost, the majority of the MTGSal staff that make this site work and function are leaving for MTGNexus. This wholesale migration of valuable and active members within the MTGSAl community that maintain its integrity and reputation leaves me uneasy as to the future direction of this site. Cryogen, Airithne, Wildfire, and many others that make this site tick are already active on MTGNexus and are, quite frankly, having a better experience with the new platform and have already established the basic infrastructure to make it successful in the same ways that MTGSal has been successful. I'm a strong supporter of these individuals and prefer to trust my online MTG experience to people that have been a part of the online MTG space for decades. I will be leaving this site to follow them in the new adventure that is Nexus, and I'm super happy to do so.
Next, the coding versatility and overall look and feel of MTGNexus is, quite simply, gorgeous. Check out the site here and explore if for a few minutes yourself. Then, check out these two Primers to get an idea of the coding versatility that exists on the new platform: darrenhabib's Will & Rowan Kenrith Primer and rumpy5897's Feather, the Redeemed Primer. In comparison to MTGSal, I think these Primers are far and away the visually superior product in comparing them to their respective MTGSal primers, and this kind of experience is one that I've personally always wanted from my online MTG experience. So, from a user standpoint, I find MTGNexus to offer a superior experience from a backend coding perspective that allows users to create visually complex and attractive posts that is unmatched by MTGSalvation.
Finally, there is a chance for myself, in my current Moderator position on MTGNexus, to be able to positively shape the way MTGNexus as a site performs. I'm an inherently creative person, and because of the personal relationship that I have with the site Admins and Owner, I feel confident that I will be able to influence the site in the ways that I think will increase MTGNexus' stature and reputation. In my current role on MTGSal, this is just not the case. It's like shouting into a void when it comes to real, concrete suggestions that the site Admins need to look over that never happens. I will have a chance to proactively introduce new content and new directions for the site that will actually be listened to and implemented by the MTGNexus staff, which will lead to a better user experience for me personally.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Added:
+ Finale of Devastation
+ Eldrazi Displacer
+ Bant Painlands (Yavimaya Coast etc.)
+ Krosan Verge
Cuts:
- Deadeye Navigator
- Prime Speaker Zegana
- 2 Islands
- Plains
- Forest
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think I will be bringing in Winds of Abandon and taking out Wave of Reckoning global Cyc Rift exile feels like good value.
Do you think we could find Cunning Evasion a home?
I really like Echo of Eons as a way to recover spent cards and generate card advantage from an empty board state. Giver of Runes is more cute than anything, and we're not playing MoM as is, so she won't make the cut. Collector Ouphe is the real deal if you're in an artifact heavy playgroup, so I recommend it in niche cases. Winds of Abandon is really cool, and I think that I'll try it out in Arcades, Aminatou, and Kaalia. The art on the new Genesis is freaking awesome and it's a solid card by itself, so I could see it in the budget list or in someone's 99. I think that Generous Gift is going to be an auto-include, since it's another Beast Within effect. And who doesn't like White Elephant gift exchanges? Wall of Blossoms got reprinted, which is REALLY nice. Watcher for Tomorrow is much better than people think. Eladamri's Call got reprinted, which is nice. Soulherder is interesting, but not quite good enough for the deck methinks because I think there are better blink cards available. Very good card though.
No, I don't think Cunning Evasion is needed. Our creatures are generally the highest toughness creatures on the board, so saving them from combat damage isn't necessary. And I think there are better ways to get cast triggers from permanents. I'd rather play Crystal Shard over this enchantment since it has applications for the Wall-Ball turn.
I think that Soulherder is a really cool card and will find a home in Brago decks. I think it's a fine inclusion in the deck after you've tried out Eldrazi Displacer. I think the Displacer does what the 'Herder does, but better.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
My first post on MTG Salvation. Have played MTG casually since Revised, but took a 10-year hiatus due to kids. Now, I'm just discovering EDH/Commander and I LOVE the format! I finally have a great way to play those singleton bombs. Anyway, I bought of box of M19 and some starter decks to teach my 7 yo to play and pulled an Arcades and became instantly enamored with the idea of creating a functional wall deck. (I tried making a wall deck years ago and of course, it sucked!) As such I found this thread in January and have slowly been building my deck based on your thoughts. Initially, it was a hybrid between Ben's and Pufflex's deck, but it's slowly gravitated to more creature-based like Ben's. It's nearly a clone now. Thanks for all the awesome ideas guys!! (Note: I don't have a playgroup as of yet and haven't made the time to get to my LGS, so I've been playing 1v1 with a coworker; mostly against Nekusar.)
Now my questions: what are your thoughts about Mentor of the Meek vs Beast Whisperer? Without Aluren in play, seems like BW is more efficient after two creatures being cast. With Aluren, maybe not so much. But BW works with all your creatures, whereas MotM still works with only power <= 2 creatures. Of course, Ben only has 4 creatures with power > 2 in his current decklist, so MotM's ability isn't too limiting. I'm not sure about your deck Pufflex since you haven't posted your latest in awhile. Oh yeah, here's mine: https://archidekt.com/decks/88701#Arcades_Wall-Ball_Clone
Also, what are your thoughts about Prismatic Vista and Waterlogged Grove from the new Modern Horizons? Seems like Prismatic Vista is going to be an auto-include in the majority of EDH decks. Yes? However, with Waterlogged Grove I'm not sure how good that series of lands will be or where it fits in the hierarchy of dual lands. Anyway, lots of questions and I'm so looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Cheers!!
I'm pleased that the Primer has been as useful as it has been for you. That's the whole intent of writing one in the first place, so I'm delighted that it's been such a useful reference for you. I'm glad that you've discovered the best MTG format as well and welcome you to the fold.
In regards to the Mentor of the Meek vs. Beast Whisperer question: I think that the Mentor is better with the deck's core strategy because Mentor takes advantage of a creature ETB whereas the Whisperer does not. Because there is a significant presence of Blink effects in the deck, a la Eldrazi Displacer and Ghostly Flicker, the Mentor is better. Combined with a lower CMC and a more generic casting cost, I would personally encourage you to stick with the Mentor. Sure, the Whisperer works with any casting of a creature in the deck, but it doesn't synergize nearly as well with the deck in my opinion. If you're starved for card draw, then you could easily run both.
Prismatic Vista and Waterlogged Grove will definitely find homes in the deck. Now we need to wait for the allied color cycle to get fully printed. Sigh.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Thanks for your response Ben! Yeah, I was trying to do the math in my head about Mentor vs Whisperer. Without Aluren, I think it's a toss-up as I'm not sure we blink enough to merit the extra 1 colorless mana each time...or...at the least it's a wash. With Aluren, Mentor is a free card, so that's a decent savings and with blink...yup!! I agree that it synergies better than Whisperer AND I haven't had any problems with card draw. That's for certain. Thanks! Sidenote: I got to use the Eldrazi Displacer for the first time today. It was awesome!! I love the blink on a stick you get with it!
Big fan of this primer. Ever since Arcades was released, I knew I wanted to do something with him, but definitely wanted to go beyond turning walls sideways. Thanks for all of the input and work! He's easily my favorite deck now.
So...with Paradox Engine getting banned, what do you think should take its place?
While not really a mechanical replacement, I was thinking of giving the new card Shared Summons a try. It being instant and able to fetch two creatures could be great for setting up something, or for general utility.
Has anyone had much luck utilizing planeswalkers? I've found that my walls have been good deterrents from attacks, and I run a few good counterspells to deter spells. I do currently run Venser, the Sojourner, and he has worked pretty well for me. I was thinking of adding in Teferi, Hero of Dominaria for some extra draw, disruption, and what's basically a win-con if you ult him.
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Adieu, my friends!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager