From the list you posted, I think I would immediately cut the Bridge for Edric. Card Draw > Preventing Attacks.
I've thought about Bramble Sovereign as well. I think it's actually good enough to get into the maindeck since copying our Defenders does indeed trigger Arcades, Curio, and the Alarm. I think that's a great idea. I'll probably cut Felidar Guardian from my list since it's kind of a meh card most of the time. Still very effective in our deck but not quite good enough.
I was also thinking if we wanted to double up on arcades, we could use Sakashima the Impostor to enter as a unique copy of arcades, which would in theory allow us to draw out way faster. I hope that my copy of Edric shows up today in the mail so I can test the change tonight, at my LGS.
I did try Sakashima and I found that this only encouraged Arcades' death even more. People start to get a little concerned when you're adding Divination to all of your Defender creatures.
I've actually had some surprising success with Panharmonicon. With the recent slant towards Bant ETB creatures, the card has been a good way to get additional value out of my creatures, including some Defender Draw-a-Card variants. I think I'd recommend the Harmonicon over Sakashima since it has better applicability to more of your creatures while also being able to double up on Arcades' triggers.
I played the deck tonight, but I didn't see any of my new changes. However I saw a card that could fit into the deck. I was wondering if you had every tried using As Foretold more or less aluren w/o flash.
Thanks for the primer! This thread has been very helpful to me. I ended up building my own Arcades deck, similar but very much different from this one. Mine's not nearly as competitive as it isn't running some of the more powerful expensive cards like Mana Crypt or Gaea's Cradle, so mine is suited for a more mid-power level casual setting, but is still quite solid synergistically. Here's the list I ended up with for those who may peruse this thread:
Key notable card choices reasoning:
1. I run numerous non-defender creatures and a lower number of defenders overall than what I've observed of other lists so far. This is because I think the deck can function better with more versatile 'goodstuff' cards in it, some choices may be obvious and expected, but choices of cards like Kira, Great-Glass Spinner and Silverblade Paladin (Soulbond it to something like Tree of Redemption) will surprise people. They won't expect you to run them, and they actually can be extremely helpful. I've already had a couple games where Kira was an all-star card saving me from spot removal hurting my expanding board state for multiple turns. As far as how it would play out, the deck wouldn't much mind sacrificing some of these non-defender creatures with Slaughter the Strong when the moment comes that it is the right time to use it, and this seems to be the case. There are a number of 'bland' or 'too situational' defenders that I also specifically chose not to run so I could instead run more versatile and consequential spells, and I think some of those 'bland' defenders people are running that I am not are actually holding their decks back from being potentially stronger. With all the cards I'm running that A: Thin out my already land-thin deck, B: Double up on Arcade's effect and help facilitate lots of extra etb triggers and C: Otherwise give me lots of value like Rhystic Study, playtesting has shown that this build gets more than enough fuel to keep moving and it doesn't need to run a ton of defenders to do it. I think I'm only running something like 20ish out of the 36 creatures comprising the deck including the commander.
2. A somewhat different control/utility suite with further unusual cards, such as Unsubstantiate and Evolution Charm - both highly useful in a variety of situations the deck may find itself in. Awakening is a tricky card and part of the reason I'm running it is because in a multiplayer setting I've found I actually want in more cases than not for other players to be able to respond to other things going on, and it helps me make sure I'm not tapped out when I need mana to cast a spell that protects my board. Monastery Siege is also in here as basically a better version of Kira that backs up my defenses against spot removal.
3. A very unconventional approach to ramp that takes advantage of the deck's already-existing affinity for efficient cards - I stayed generally low curve in spells and my version only runs 30 lands, nothing costing over 6 except perhaps an evoked Reveillark. I have no spells that cost more than 5 otherwise and most cost half that so my options of things to cast every turn are very fluid. The deck seems to work perfectly fine in games with only 4-6 lands and a couple mana dorks, as it really doesn't need much in terms of resources to function well. My choices of ramp besides creature-provided include cards like Land Tax and Surveyor's Scope, taking advantage of not running any of the typical sorcery-based ramp spells or even hardly any artifact ramp. The reasoning being that I expect my opponents will likely ramp ahead in terms of lands, and this has already proved true without being an issue, and the deck wants to focus on being able to respond at key moments and keep moving as it draws additional pieces of its engine or expanding board state. My first version ran 36 lands, and I cut down heavily when I found that the last thing I wanted to happen was to get mana flooded even slightly in the late game, so I cut down to 30 and it plays wonderfully now.
I played the deck tonight, but I didn't see any of my new changes. However I saw a card that could fit into the deck. I was wondering if you had every tried using As Foretold more or less aluren w/o flash.
It's not as good in this list as it could be in others. I don't personally play a ton of instant speed spells to properly take advantage of the tempo that this card can generate. If I was playing a Storm Control list, it would definitely deserve a spot because I can reliably take advantage of it EVERY turn cycle after waiting one turn. I think it just takes too long to get active in this particular deck, but I could be wrong. I've been playing MTG Arena lately and have been on a 60 card kick for a while, so I've done no playtesting for about a month now.
Thanks for the primer! This thread has been very helpful to me. I ended up building my own Arcades deck, similar but very much different from this one. Mine's not nearly as competitive as it isn't running some of the more powerful expensive cards like Mana Crypt or Gaea's Cradle, so mine is suited for a more mid-power level casual setting, but is still quite solid synergistically. Here's the list I ended up with for those who may peruse this thread:
Key notable card choices reasoning:
1. I run numerous non-defender creatures and a lower number of defenders overall than what I've observed of other lists so far. This is because I think the deck can function better with more versatile 'goodstuff' cards in it, some choices may be obvious and expected, but choices of cards like Kira, Great-Glass Spinner and Silverblade Paladin (Soulbond it to something like Tree of Redemption) will surprise people. They won't expect you to run them, and they actually can be extremely helpful. I've already had a couple games where Kira was an all-star card saving me from spot removal hurting my expanding board state for multiple turns. As far as how it would play out, the deck wouldn't much mind sacrificing some of these non-defender creatures with Slaughter the Strong when the moment comes that it is the right time to use it, and this seems to be the case. There are a number of 'bland' or 'too situational' defenders that I also specifically chose not to run so I could instead run more versatile and consequential spells, and I think some of those 'bland' defenders people are running that I am not are actually holding their decks back from being potentially stronger. With all the cards I'm running that A: Thin out my already land-thin deck, B: Double up on Arcade's effect and help facilitate lots of extra etb triggers and C: Otherwise give me lots of value like Rhystic Study, playtesting has shown that this build gets more than enough fuel to keep moving and it doesn't need to run a ton of defenders to do it. I think I'm only running something like 20ish out of the 36 creatures comprising the deck including the commander.
2. A somewhat different control/utility suite with further unusual cards, such as Unsubstantiate and Evolution Charm - both highly useful in a variety of situations the deck may find itself in. Awakening is a tricky card and part of the reason I'm running it is because in a multiplayer setting I've found I actually want in more cases than not for other players to be able to respond to other things going on, and it helps me make sure I'm not tapped out when I need mana to cast a spell that protects my board. Monastery Siege is also in here as basically a better version of Kira that backs up my defenses against spot removal.
3. A very unconventional approach to ramp that takes advantage of the deck's already-existing affinity for efficient cards - I stayed generally low curve in spells and my version only runs 30 lands, nothing costing over 6 except perhaps an evoked Reveillark. I have no spells that cost more than 5 otherwise and most cost half that so my options of things to cast every turn are very fluid. The deck seems to work perfectly fine in games with only 4-6 lands and a couple mana dorks, as it really doesn't need much in terms of resources to function well. My choices of ramp besides creature-provided include cards like Land Tax and Surveyor's Scope, taking advantage of not running any of the typical sorcery-based ramp spells or even hardly any artifact ramp. The reasoning being that I expect my opponents will likely ramp ahead in terms of lands, and this has already proved true without being an issue, and the deck wants to focus on being able to respond at key moments and keep moving as it draws additional pieces of its engine or expanding board state. My first version ran 36 lands, and I cut down heavily when I found that the last thing I wanted to happen was to get mana flooded even slightly in the late game, so I cut down to 30 and it plays wonderfully now.
I agree with your reasoning in Point 1): this deck can thrive with just a few Defender creatures. With the natural Blink synergy in these colors, I've found it very easy (when I was playing Commander consistently) to keep recurring a small segment of Defender creatures and eventually overwhelm my opponents in Card Advantage. Adding in additional utility creatures with ETB effects (generally) is a good way to go.
30 lands. That is bold, sir. I feel wary of running 30 lands in my Dralnu Storm list which has an average CMC of under 2.5. If your playtesting is showing that this doesn't significantly hamper your gameplay and strategy development, then I encourage you to go for it. I'm of the opinion that unless you're playing 8+ mana sources ALL under 1 CMC then you need a minimum of 32 lands to properly run. I found that I was mana screwed too many times at 32 lands and bumped the land count to 34 and haven't had too much trouble with it now. You're correct in your thinking though; this deck can operate very cleanly on thin mana margins. Keeping a low land count is very feasible for this deck when it gets going. The trouble I found was that getting the engine going was very difficult when I would keep a 2 lander and a mana ramp source and then never draw another one until T4+, when the window for tempo advancement has closed. For this reasoning, I personally added in more lands to my deck to smooth out the potential mana issues I consistently came across at 32 lands.
It does not cause the Curio trigger to get countered. Because the Curio reads "return another permanent..." and doesn't explicitly use the word "target" anywhere for its trigger to resolve, you can bounce your own permanents with the Curio through Kira'a protection. Gotta love that grammar distinction!
Thoughts on the new spoilers? I know I am going to swap Assault Formationfor High Alert. I wonder if we will see any defenders of worth. You would think we should see something that will synergize with high alert but its hard to say.
I'll be doing a full review for Arcades once the full spoilers are up, but High Alert is a better flavor win for the deck while also randomly enabling infinite mana with Axebane Guardian and 4 other Defender creatures.
The new Lavinia is VERY welcome for this deck. In going against unfair Combo decks, being able to keep them honest and cast spells whose CMC equals their land count will do A LOT to slow them down. I think she's a hatebear that is going to find a slot in the deck.
Deputy of Detention is really, really good for the new ETB slant I've decided to go. That's probably going to get an include pretty readily as well.
Incubation // Incongruity is probably a really versatile spell. Removal when you need it while also being able to dig to find Defender creatures. And with the High creature count this deck runs, you should frequently hit with the Incubation half.
However, the best card for Commander from this set, in my opinion, is the new Guardian Project. Having every single creature cantrip FOR FREE is simply magnificent from a card advantage perspective and it sits nicely on the curve. And, VERY importantly, you can keep drawing a card off of casting your Commander regardless of how many times it's died. This card plus Derevi in the Command Zone is just sickening, but this card is even better in Edric. When every 1 CMC creature cantrips to find more, it gets out of control VERY quickly.
I think you are. It says "exile target nonland permanent". It doesn't hit JUST creatures; it can get rid of ANY problem permanent on the board while also being a creature for Reveillark and Blink synergies.
Yup, Guardian Project is what I was thinking of. I'll edit my post shortly so that the card link actually works.
I suppose you could use Deputy of Detention to exile your own defender then bounce with Curio to gain the ETB effect if your really hurting for creatures for Card draw.
Deputy of Detention says opponent's permanents sadly. Otherwise, there could be some interesting blink applications to it.
I too really like Incubation Druid. I'll probably be picking up a copy of it shortly so that I can give it a whirl. It doesn't seem bad at all and only gets better once Adapted.
Also, I'm coming up on a finalized list for Arcades. It's a pretty drastic overhaul for the decklist but it has been goldfishing MUCH better. I'm hoping to get a couple of games in this weekend to confirm the changes I've made.
Hah I guess I glazed over the opponents text, for deputy of dentenion. I was thinking if we had infinate mana, another alternate win con could be to use Simic Ascendancy in an end step for the win. With the Axebane // High Alert Combo they would need something like Disallow or instant removal to shutdown the wincon. Worst Case you could pump Arcades for the flying vigilant dmg or before dmg pump some defenders, the card will generate hate for sure. Im not 100% how well it will fit, but I wanted to hear your thoughts on it.
The rest of the defenders are pretty meg expect for Junktroller. The deck doesn't exactly fetch creatures often so I don't think its too great.Wall of Lost Thoughts is neat, however I think it might be little worse than Doorkeeper but if you can get out Aluren and Curio the game is over, where doorkeeper will relies on intruder alarm to go infinate for mill. It is a card I might consider, as a troll infiniate win con.
Agreed on the quality of the Defenders being printed. It's a shame, since they have some really nice payoff cards for Defenders (Arcades and High Alert) but no really good defenders to make the strategy viable in Standard.
I too like Wall of Lost Thoughts. While Milling is a strategy I've never really cared for, it's underrated in this format. It's like pre-emptive removal on cards that we may have difficulty dealing with. I do like that it's an ETB ability instead of an activated ability, since Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence are prominent cards in my wife's Kaalia deck that she tutors for often.
I'll be posting my updated Arcades list later tonight. I've cut down on the Defender theme and included more Bant and Creature related synergies. There are still 18 Defenders in the list, which has proven more than enough to reliably trigger Arcades on a consistent basis. I'll eventually be editing the OP as well to account for the drastic overhaul of the list.
Creatures
Out - Wall of Blossoms
In - Wall Of Reverence - Combos well with Colossus
Out - Doorkeeper
In - Wall of Lost Thoughts - Infinite mill with Curio and Aluren with Another wall. Also Distrupts decks that don't have graveyard recursion
In - Colossus of Akros - Combos well with Reverence. This combo has saved me a few games as gaining 10 life per turn isn't bad at all.
I am still trying to find a place for Incubation // Incongruity and Deputy of Detention. However I think the deputy requires access to Panharmonicon to get real value from the card. It's good disruption without but its even better with it, since aluren could flash it in for free. To remove blockers before attacks are declared or what ever else you don't like.
I put my thoughts next to the cards I added in. So Your .02 would be nice to have as usual.
Benjameenbear have you had a chance to test your new build? I only have 2 of the cards from my changes, hopefully the mail will be kind and have the rest delivered this week.
@Pufflex
Welp, life took a weird turn for my in the employment arena, so I've put aside pretty much everything else in my life to get that resolved. I have had a chance to test the new changes in a couple of 1v1 games with my wife and her Kaalia deck, and I can say that the changes are VERY promising. While I lost more than I won (because Kaalia Stax is OP in comparison to Arcades...), I think I can officially feel comfortable updating the OP with the new decklist I have.
It's transitioned into more of a traditional Bant ETB value deck but with a still not insignifcant amount of Defender creatures (I count 23 with this new list). It's been running very smoothly so far and feels exactly how I want it to feel: competitive without being oppressive. The lack of Counterspells probably adds to that, since things generally have a chance to resolve. Heaven help my opponents though if I start snowballing, which is VERY easy to do with this deck. Arcades is still a good choice because he actually draws your deck when you can successfully loop Paradox Engine or Intruder Alarm.
In regards to your changes, Pufflex, I think that High Alert is much better than Assault Formation and I'm glad you've made the switch. Guardain Project, when uncontested, generally goes on to draw me WAY too many cards, especially in conjunction with a Flicker effect. I think that Simic Ascendancy is too slow but is a pretty fun win condition should it actually work. I'm really excited to see what Incubation Druid can do with Engine and the Alarm, as I haven't gotten a chance to draw it yet. It seems very powerful, however, so I'm hopeful that it performs like I expect it to.
I've often gone back and forth with Panharmonicon in this deck, particularly since Arcades has an ETB trigger associated with him. But, it's kind of a do-nothing card on the turn when it comes down and often dies before I get too much value out of it. What would you take out for it?
@benjameenbear Sorry to hear about the job. Hopefully you can get it sorted soon and get back to brewing.
I have a feeling, that if Guardian Project resolves it won't be long for this world, however if I can get a few draws from it I think it will be worth it. Chord of Calling looks good as well, I think I might try to get it into the build as being able to send a creature to the battlefield is pretty good value.
I like Bloom Tender however the card is somewhat cost prohibative, but I figure I will look for one and and it in.
Simic Ascendancy will probally be too slow, however if it resolves with and I have infinite mana outlet it might work but we will see.
I do like your build, however I am still trying to push the Alurencombo for the win. I did found out when I played last that Aluren and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade work very well together. It locks out everyone else from using the card, and was good value.
Pull from Tomorrow is interesting I am going to try to add this card in to see if it works in my list.
How much value do you get from your 14 removal cards? I need to add some some additional removal, but I am not sure which ones I should include.
Prime Speaker Zeganahow many cards do you end up hitting from this? It seems expensiveish for the amount of card draw, but I am probally missing something.
As for Panharmonicon I have a love hate with this card. It always feels good when it comes out, until I end up getting 0 value with it. Normally this card is a 4 cost mana sink that draws me two cards, then is removed which happens everytime I play it. I think that Guardian project is much better as it doesn't appear as a large threat, in the future that might change. As for what you should swap it for that is a good question you don't have enough to support Aluren but maybe Ever-watching threshold? It might draw less hate on you or if you really want the ETB maybe the Beast master from guilds might work as well. Ill be on the look out at the LGS for other options, and let you know.
I will tweak my deck to continue to revise the strategy and add more redundancy into it. Ill let you know how it goes. I hope I will need most of my other cards from the mail soon.
Well I did some play testing during the week and the deck performed decently. However I know I need to make a few changes. Simic Ascendency doesn't fit at all, so I pulled that card and I am going to put in Genesis Wave I feel like its a better card to combo off with. I want to add Chord of Calling so I will probally drop Brago for this.
Also Delay is a great card with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade as when suspend expires the spell is countered, and I also love to lock everyone else out from using Aluren.
In your opinion, which card is better Duplicant or Sower of Temptation.
Have you had a chance to test the deck in multiplayer yet?
Hey Pufflex, thanks for being consistent in posting here! I think I've worked through my employment issues so I should have the time and energy to devote to this site again.
First, genius look on how Lavinia prevents Aluren from being symmetrical. That is an element that I had totally not considered when I took out Aluren in my deck, and I think it's time to fit Lavinia and Aluren back in. I've noticed that I'm often holding removal in hand with few targets that are actually worthy of being removed. I think I'll be trimming down 2 pieces of removal to add Lavinia in and Aluren back into the deck.
Between Duplicant and Sower of Temptation, I like the Sower better. My meta (outside of my wife's Kaalia deck) is actually removal lite, so stealing a Commander is much better than killing it since theft prevents my opponents from being able to recast their Commander again. I look at the Sower as a budget Gilded Drake, which is easily one of the best removal spells in the format. I would try and run both, personally, but if I had to choose I would recommend the Sower because of its theft effect and CMC.
@benjameenbear - Hopefully we can keep tuning this deck to perform at this max potential. Glad to hear your employment situation is figured. Lavinia, Azorius Renegade is a solid card it shutsdown all Cascade triggers, and anything cast with Omniscienceor As Foretold. What I need right now is to have a more consistant way of drawing or tutoring Aluren and Lavinia in sequence. I am hoping that Genesis Wave will get me there, however its a big target for countermagic.
I find that I need to protect Aluren and Lavina better, so I am going to try to explore that angle as well. Do you know of any cards like Ascetisicm or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner that would work for creatures and enchantments? Once the combo is out you're pretty much good to go unless someome insta mills you, however since your at instant speed you should be able to theoretically kill them before the Mill resolves. Anyway I will be doing some additional testing tonight so here is hoping!
Also I find the deck suffers greatly against decks that cause you to sac your creatures to ETBs or creature death. Meren decks cause me the largest headache if Arcades decides to draw lands and stumble.
Maybe including Reveillark and Sun Titan to your list will help you mitigate the damage from Plaguecrafter type of effects. If there are cards like Grave Pact out, though, it's VERY hard to get around that without a hard removal effect. It's one of the reasons why I have such a high density of removal effects, particularly since I'm running no real counter-magic. The 'Lark has been particularly good for me, especially with the significant Blink theme that I have present in my list. I can usually get 3-4 creatures back with the 'Lark at any given point in a game, which has been crucial in keeping a presence within the games I've played.
Privileged Position and Sterling Grove are the ones that immediately come to mind as ways to find Aluren and proactively protect it. Otherwise, it's pretty minimal for blanket permanent protection.
I would think that Privileged Position would be the best fit, as it works for all cards on the board, you would want to pair it with Sterling grove to project it as well but seems like a waste. Most likely you would just non-target destroy at that point. I never considered relevark for the bink affects, but that makes way more sense. Sun Titan was already in my board under utility creatures, but blinking or curioing relevark is definately something I need to look into. Too bad its 2CMC over the Aluren allowance but what can you do. Genesis Wave is a cool card, however by the time I played it I had already won the game because of the infinate mana so it was just for the lols.
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I've thought about Bramble Sovereign as well. I think it's actually good enough to get into the maindeck since copying our Defenders does indeed trigger Arcades, Curio, and the Alarm. I think that's a great idea. I'll probably cut Felidar Guardian from my list since it's kind of a meh card most of the time. Still very effective in our deck but not quite good enough.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I've actually had some surprising success with Panharmonicon. With the recent slant towards Bant ETB creatures, the card has been a good way to get additional value out of my creatures, including some Defender Draw-a-Card variants. I think I'd recommend the Harmonicon over Sakashima since it has better applicability to more of your creatures while also being able to double up on Arcades' triggers.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4x Arcades, the Strategist
3x Axebane Guardian
3x Basilica Guards
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Carven Caryatid
3x Doorkeeper
3x Drift of Phantasms
3x Eternal Witness
3x Flickerwisp
2x Fog Bank
2x Gatecreeper Vine
3x Guard Gomazoa
2x Jeskai Barricade
3x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3x Mirror Image
5x Mnemonic Wall
2x Overgrown Battlement
5x Reveillark
4x Sakashima the Impostor
4x Sakashima's Student
0x Shield Sphere
3x Silverblade Paladin
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
1x Steel Wall
2x Sunscape Familiar
2x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Traproot Kami
4x Tree of Redemption
2x Wall of Blossoms
3x Wall of Denial
3x Wall of Frost
2x Wall of Junk
2x Wall of Kelp
3x Wall of Nets
2x Wall of Omens
3x Yavimaya Elder
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Breeding Pool
1x Brushland
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Grove
5x Forest
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Hinterland Harbor
5x Island
1x Mystic Gate
5x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Yavimaya Coast
ARTIFACTS
3x Cloudstone Curio
5x Conjurer's Closet
2x Lightning Greaves
4x Panharmonicon
5x Paradox Engine
1x Sol Ring
2x Surveyor's Scope
2x Thought Vessel
ENCHANTMENTS
4x Aluren
2x Assault Formation
4x Awakening
1x Exploration
3x Intruder Alarm
1x Land Tax
4x Leyline of Anticipation
3x Monastery Siege
3x Rhystic Study
2x Deglamer
3x Eerie Interlude
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Evolution Charm
3x Ghostly Flicker
3x Ghostway
2x Heroic Intervention
3x Oblation
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
3x Teferi's Protection
2x Tower Defense
2x Trickbind
2x Unexpectedly Absent
2x Unsubstantiate
1x Worldly Tutor
3x Slaughter the Strong
Key notable card choices reasoning:
1. I run numerous non-defender creatures and a lower number of defenders overall than what I've observed of other lists so far. This is because I think the deck can function better with more versatile 'goodstuff' cards in it, some choices may be obvious and expected, but choices of cards like Kira, Great-Glass Spinner and Silverblade Paladin (Soulbond it to something like Tree of Redemption) will surprise people. They won't expect you to run them, and they actually can be extremely helpful. I've already had a couple games where Kira was an all-star card saving me from spot removal hurting my expanding board state for multiple turns. As far as how it would play out, the deck wouldn't much mind sacrificing some of these non-defender creatures with Slaughter the Strong when the moment comes that it is the right time to use it, and this seems to be the case. There are a number of 'bland' or 'too situational' defenders that I also specifically chose not to run so I could instead run more versatile and consequential spells, and I think some of those 'bland' defenders people are running that I am not are actually holding their decks back from being potentially stronger. With all the cards I'm running that A: Thin out my already land-thin deck, B: Double up on Arcade's effect and help facilitate lots of extra etb triggers and C: Otherwise give me lots of value like Rhystic Study, playtesting has shown that this build gets more than enough fuel to keep moving and it doesn't need to run a ton of defenders to do it. I think I'm only running something like 20ish out of the 36 creatures comprising the deck including the commander.
2. A somewhat different control/utility suite with further unusual cards, such as Unsubstantiate and Evolution Charm - both highly useful in a variety of situations the deck may find itself in. Awakening is a tricky card and part of the reason I'm running it is because in a multiplayer setting I've found I actually want in more cases than not for other players to be able to respond to other things going on, and it helps me make sure I'm not tapped out when I need mana to cast a spell that protects my board. Monastery Siege is also in here as basically a better version of Kira that backs up my defenses against spot removal.
3. A very unconventional approach to ramp that takes advantage of the deck's already-existing affinity for efficient cards - I stayed generally low curve in spells and my version only runs 30 lands, nothing costing over 6 except perhaps an evoked Reveillark. I have no spells that cost more than 5 otherwise and most cost half that so my options of things to cast every turn are very fluid. The deck seems to work perfectly fine in games with only 4-6 lands and a couple mana dorks, as it really doesn't need much in terms of resources to function well. My choices of ramp besides creature-provided include cards like Land Tax and Surveyor's Scope, taking advantage of not running any of the typical sorcery-based ramp spells or even hardly any artifact ramp. The reasoning being that I expect my opponents will likely ramp ahead in terms of lands, and this has already proved true without being an issue, and the deck wants to focus on being able to respond at key moments and keep moving as it draws additional pieces of its engine or expanding board state. My first version ran 36 lands, and I cut down heavily when I found that the last thing I wanted to happen was to get mana flooded even slightly in the late game, so I cut down to 30 and it plays wonderfully now.
It's not as good in this list as it could be in others. I don't personally play a ton of instant speed spells to properly take advantage of the tempo that this card can generate. If I was playing a Storm Control list, it would definitely deserve a spot because I can reliably take advantage of it EVERY turn cycle after waiting one turn. I think it just takes too long to get active in this particular deck, but I could be wrong. I've been playing MTG Arena lately and have been on a 60 card kick for a while, so I've done no playtesting for about a month now.
I agree with your reasoning in Point 1): this deck can thrive with just a few Defender creatures. With the natural Blink synergy in these colors, I've found it very easy (when I was playing Commander consistently) to keep recurring a small segment of Defender creatures and eventually overwhelm my opponents in Card Advantage. Adding in additional utility creatures with ETB effects (generally) is a good way to go.
30 lands. That is bold, sir. I feel wary of running 30 lands in my Dralnu Storm list which has an average CMC of under 2.5. If your playtesting is showing that this doesn't significantly hamper your gameplay and strategy development, then I encourage you to go for it. I'm of the opinion that unless you're playing 8+ mana sources ALL under 1 CMC then you need a minimum of 32 lands to properly run. I found that I was mana screwed too many times at 32 lands and bumped the land count to 34 and haven't had too much trouble with it now. You're correct in your thinking though; this deck can operate very cleanly on thin mana margins. Keeping a low land count is very feasible for this deck when it gets going. The trouble I found was that getting the engine going was very difficult when I would keep a 2 lander and a mana ramp source and then never draw another one until T4+, when the window for tempo advancement has closed. For this reasoning, I personally added in more lands to my deck to smooth out the potential mana issues I consistently came across at 32 lands.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It does not cause the Curio trigger to get countered. Because the Curio reads "return another permanent..." and doesn't explicitly use the word "target" anywhere for its trigger to resolve, you can bounce your own permanents with the Curio through Kira'a protection. Gotta love that grammar distinction!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The new Lavinia is VERY welcome for this deck. In going against unfair Combo decks, being able to keep them honest and cast spells whose CMC equals their land count will do A LOT to slow them down. I think she's a hatebear that is going to find a slot in the deck.
Deputy of Detention is really, really good for the new ETB slant I've decided to go. That's probably going to get an include pretty readily as well.
Incubation // Incongruity is probably a really versatile spell. Removal when you need it while also being able to dig to find Defender creatures. And with the High creature count this deck runs, you should frequently hit with the Incubation half.
However, the best card for Commander from this set, in my opinion, is the new Guardian Project. Having every single creature cantrip FOR FREE is simply magnificent from a card advantage perspective and it sits nicely on the curve. And, VERY importantly, you can keep drawing a card off of casting your Commander regardless of how many times it's died. This card plus Derevi in the Command Zone is just sickening, but this card is even better in Edric. When every 1 CMC creature cantrips to find more, it gets out of control VERY quickly.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Guardian Project has commander written all over it.
Yup, Guardian Project is what I was thinking of. I'll edit my post shortly so that the card link actually works.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I am also going to rotate in Incubation Druid as this will help with the infiniate mana synergies. I think I will swap either Llanowar elves or Uvenwald Captive for this card.
I have alsoe made a few changes to my deck since I posted it last. Once everything has finalized I will repost my deck list.
I too really like Incubation Druid. I'll probably be picking up a copy of it shortly so that I can give it a whirl. It doesn't seem bad at all and only gets better once Adapted.
Also, I'm coming up on a finalized list for Arcades. It's a pretty drastic overhaul for the decklist but it has been goldfishing MUCH better. I'm hoping to get a couple of games in this weekend to confirm the changes I've made.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The rest of the defenders are pretty meg expect for Junktroller. The deck doesn't exactly fetch creatures often so I don't think its too great.Wall of Lost Thoughts is neat, however I think it might be little worse than Doorkeeper but if you can get out Aluren and Curio the game is over, where doorkeeper will relies on intruder alarm to go infinate for mill. It is a card I might consider, as a troll infiniate win con.
What are you thoughts?
I too like Wall of Lost Thoughts. While Milling is a strategy I've never really cared for, it's underrated in this format. It's like pre-emptive removal on cards that we may have difficulty dealing with. I do like that it's an ETB ability instead of an activated ability, since Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence are prominent cards in my wife's Kaalia deck that she tutors for often.
I'll be posting my updated Arcades list later tonight. I've cut down on the Defender theme and included more Bant and Creature related synergies. There are still 18 Defenders in the list, which has proven more than enough to reliably trigger Arcades on a consistent basis. I'll eventually be editing the OP as well to account for the drastic overhaul of the list.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4x Arcades, the Strategist
Utility Creatures
4x Brago, King Eternal
3x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
6x Sun Titan
3x Eternal Witness
4x Temur Sabretooth
2x Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
2x Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
0x Walking Ballista
Tutors
3x Drift of Phantasms
2x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Wargate
Counter Spells
2x Arcane Denial
2x Counter Spell
2x Delay
0x Pact of Negation
3x Render Silent
1x Spell Pierce
1x Swan Song
Artifcats
3x Cloudstone Curio
2x Lightning Greaves
5x Paradox Engine
Defenders
8x Colossus of Akros
2x Wall of Lost Thoughts
2x Jeskai Barricade
5x Mnemonic Wall
1x Perimeter Captain
3x Quicksilver Wall
0x Shield Sphere
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
4x Tree of Redemption
4x Wall Of Reverence
3x Wall of Denial
2x Wall of Junk
2x Wall of Kelp
2x Wall of Mulch
2x Wall of Omens
3x Wall of Resurgence
2x Wall of Tanglecord
4x Aluren
2x Simic Ascendancy
4x Guardian Project
2x High Alert
3x Aura Shards
3x Intruder Alarm
3x Rhystic Study
Instant Removal
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Reality Shift
1x Swords to Plowshares
Board Wipes
4x Dusk // Dawn
5x Fell the Mighty
5x Wave of Reckoning
Instants
3x Eerie Interlude
Mana Sources
3x Axebane Guardian
1x Birds of Paradise
2x Fellwar Stone
3x Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Noble Heirarch
2x Overgrown Battlement
1x Sunscape Familamiliar
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Incubation Druid
2x Vine Trellis
2x Wall of Roots
Land
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Bountiful Promenade
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Irrigated Farmland
1x Mystic Gate
1x Path of Ancestry
1x Plains
1x Polluted Deta
1x Scattered Groves
1x Sea of Clouds
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Treva's Ruins
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
Changes
Land
Out - Brushland
In - Treva's Ruins - Helps my issue with colors since its Bant and doesn't come in tapped.
Mana Dorks
Out - Ulvenwald Captive
In - Incubation Druid - Any Color of mana is way better than just green and a card draw. Scales to 3 mana.
Out - Avacyn's Pilgrim
In - Noble Heirarch - Bant colors so its better
Out - Gilded Lotus
Instants
Out - Ghostly Flicker poor value vs Guardian project
Enchantments
Out - Assault Formation
In - High Alert -- Activates Defenders and infinite mana source
Out - Asceticism
In - Simic Ascendancy -- Infinate Mana Outlet for Wincon.
In - Guardian Project -- Creature Divination
Creatures
Out - Wall of Blossoms
In - Wall Of Reverence - Combos well with Colossus
Out - Doorkeeper
In - Wall of Lost Thoughts - Infinite mill with Curio and Aluren with Another wall. Also Distrupts decks that don't have graveyard recursion
In - Colossus of Akros - Combos well with Reverence. This combo has saved me a few games as gaining 10 life per turn isn't bad at all.
Artifacts
Out - Ensnaring Bridge
Tutors
Out - Wordly Tutor
Util Creatures
In - Lavinia, Azorius Renegade- Shutdown the other combo decks
In - Kira, Great Glass-Spinner - Better than the enchantment, more ways to tutor aluren / curio playable.
I am still trying to find a place for Incubation // Incongruity and Deputy of Detention. However I think the deputy requires access to Panharmonicon to get real value from the card. It's good disruption without but its even better with it, since aluren could flash it in for free. To remove blockers before attacks are declared or what ever else you don't like.
I put my thoughts next to the cards I added in. So Your .02 would be nice to have as usual.
Welp, life took a weird turn for my in the employment arena, so I've put aside pretty much everything else in my life to get that resolved. I have had a chance to test the new changes in a couple of 1v1 games with my wife and her Kaalia deck, and I can say that the changes are VERY promising. While I lost more than I won (because Kaalia Stax is OP in comparison to Arcades...), I think I can officially feel comfortable updating the OP with the new decklist I have.
Without further ado:
4x Arcades, the Strategist
Mana Sources (14)
1x Sol Ring
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Llanowar Elves
2x Bloom Tender
2x Overgrown Battlement
2x Vine Trellis
2x Sunscape Familiar
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Wall of Roots
2x Gatecreeper Vine
2x Ulvenwald Captive
2x Incubation Druid
3x Axebane Guardian
Removal (14)
1x Swords to Plowshares
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Reality Shift
3x Beast Within
3x Reflector Mage
3x Deputy of Detention
3x Knight of Autumn
4x Dusk // Dawn
4x Profaner of the Dead
4x Sower of Temptation
4x Venser, Shaper Savant
5x Acidic Slime
6x Bane of Progress
6x Duplicant
1x Skullclamp
1x Portcullis Vine
2x Wall of Mulch
2x Wall of Omens
2x Wall of Blossoms
2x Orator of Ojutai
2x Pull from Tomorrow
3x Carven Caryatid
3x Mentor of the Meek
3x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4x Jungle Barrier
4x Guardian Project
5x Mulldrifter
6x Prime Speaker Zegana
Tutors (4)
2x Eladamri's Call
3x Wargate
3x Drift of Phantasms
3x Chord of Calling
Flicker Effects (6)
2x Jeskai Barricade
3x Eerie Interlude
3x Ghostly Flicker
3x Cloudstone Curio
4x Temur Sabertooth
6x Deadeye Navigator
Utility (12)
0x Shield Sphere
2x Wall of Kelp
2x Wall of Shards
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
3x Quicksilver Wall
3x Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
3x Eternal Witness
3x Intruder Alarm
5x Reveillark
5x Mnemonic Wall
5x Paradox Engine
6x Sun Titan
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Treva's Ruins
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Command Tower
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Flooded Strand
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Windswept Heath
3x Dual Lands
3x Shocklands
3x Filter Lands
3x Checklands
3x Painlands
2x Battlebond Lands
4x Forest
3x Island
3x Plains
It's transitioned into more of a traditional Bant ETB value deck but with a still not insignifcant amount of Defender creatures (I count 23 with this new list). It's been running very smoothly so far and feels exactly how I want it to feel: competitive without being oppressive. The lack of Counterspells probably adds to that, since things generally have a chance to resolve. Heaven help my opponents though if I start snowballing, which is VERY easy to do with this deck. Arcades is still a good choice because he actually draws your deck when you can successfully loop Paradox Engine or Intruder Alarm.
In regards to your changes, Pufflex, I think that High Alert is much better than Assault Formation and I'm glad you've made the switch. Guardain Project, when uncontested, generally goes on to draw me WAY too many cards, especially in conjunction with a Flicker effect. I think that Simic Ascendancy is too slow but is a pretty fun win condition should it actually work. I'm really excited to see what Incubation Druid can do with Engine and the Alarm, as I haven't gotten a chance to draw it yet. It seems very powerful, however, so I'm hopeful that it performs like I expect it to.
I've often gone back and forth with Panharmonicon in this deck, particularly since Arcades has an ETB trigger associated with him. But, it's kind of a do-nothing card on the turn when it comes down and often dies before I get too much value out of it. What would you take out for it?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I have a feeling, that if Guardian Project resolves it won't be long for this world, however if I can get a few draws from it I think it will be worth it. Chord of Calling looks good as well, I think I might try to get it into the build as being able to send a creature to the battlefield is pretty good value.
I like Bloom Tender however the card is somewhat cost prohibative, but I figure I will look for one and and it in.
Simic Ascendancy will probally be too slow, however if it resolves with and I have infinite mana outlet it might work but we will see.
I do like your build, however I am still trying to push the Alurencombo for the win. I did found out when I played last that Aluren and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade work very well together. It locks out everyone else from using the card, and was good value.
I made a mistake in my list. Perimeter Captain was removed for Orator of Ojutai
I see you found my Logic for Treva's Ruins , the card looks crappy on paper but I have found it very useful so far.
How much value do you get from Skullclamp and Portcullis Vinethe don't exactly seem to fit, and paying to 2 tap sac doesn't great?
I might try Mentor the Meek instead of Brago, King Eternal normally doesn't get a chance to swing. I also like Deadeye Navigator but I think he will be hard to get out and might get removed right away.
Pull from Tomorrow is interesting I am going to try to add this card in to see if it works in my list.
How much value do you get from your 14 removal cards? I need to add some some additional removal, but I am not sure which ones I should include.
Prime Speaker Zeganahow many cards do you end up hitting from this? It seems expensiveish for the amount of card draw, but I am probally missing something.
As for Panharmonicon I have a love hate with this card. It always feels good when it comes out, until I end up getting 0 value with it. Normally this card is a 4 cost mana sink that draws me two cards, then is removed which happens everytime I play it. I think that Guardian project is much better as it doesn't appear as a large threat, in the future that might change. As for what you should swap it for that is a good question you don't have enough to support Aluren but maybe Ever-watching threshold? It might draw less hate on you or if you really want the ETB maybe the Beast master from guilds might work as well. Ill be on the look out at the LGS for other options, and let you know.
I will tweak my deck to continue to revise the strategy and add more redundancy into it. Ill let you know how it goes. I hope I will need most of my other cards from the mail soon.
I found that Incubation Druid and Bloom Tender have made it quite a bit easier to combo off with Cloudstone Curio.
Also Delay is a great card with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade as when suspend expires the spell is countered, and I also love to lock everyone else out from using Aluren.
In your opinion, which card is better Duplicant or Sower of Temptation.
Have you had a chance to test the deck in multiplayer yet?
First, genius look on how Lavinia prevents Aluren from being symmetrical. That is an element that I had totally not considered when I took out Aluren in my deck, and I think it's time to fit Lavinia and Aluren back in. I've noticed that I'm often holding removal in hand with few targets that are actually worthy of being removed. I think I'll be trimming down 2 pieces of removal to add Lavinia in and Aluren back into the deck.
Between Duplicant and Sower of Temptation, I like the Sower better. My meta (outside of my wife's Kaalia deck) is actually removal lite, so stealing a Commander is much better than killing it since theft prevents my opponents from being able to recast their Commander again. I look at the Sower as a budget Gilded Drake, which is easily one of the best removal spells in the format. I would try and run both, personally, but if I had to choose I would recommend the Sower because of its theft effect and CMC.
-1 Acidic Slime
-1 Deputy of Detention
+1 Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
+1 Aluren
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I find that I need to protect Aluren and Lavina better, so I am going to try to explore that angle as well. Do you know of any cards like Ascetisicm or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner that would work for creatures and enchantments? Once the combo is out you're pretty much good to go unless someome insta mills you, however since your at instant speed you should be able to theoretically kill them before the Mill resolves. Anyway I will be doing some additional testing tonight so here is hoping!
Also I find the deck suffers greatly against decks that cause you to sac your creatures to ETBs or creature death. Meren decks cause me the largest headache if Arcades decides to draw lands and stumble.
Privileged Position and Sterling Grove are the ones that immediately come to mind as ways to find Aluren and proactively protect it. Otherwise, it's pretty minimal for blanket permanent protection.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager