Sorry in advance for this post but I've been brainstorming a ton of potential adds for this deck and am wondering what the collective hive mind thinks about these cards, on if they're really good or not worth testing.
For reference, this is what I'm currently running and having massive success with to the point I don't know if I want to cut anything.
Djinn of wishes has been cute but also has cheated Omniscience and enter the infinite wins so I'm not even sure he's a cut. Just wanting some outside looking in opinions because I am bad at cutting things
Honestly it's a bit hard to say, as you have a unique configuration.
But cards I'll swear by are: Heart of Kiran - It's just a stone wall on defense and has infinite combo potential. Re-read the primer sections on commander tax and Emeria Shepherd on how to combo with it. Recruiter of the Guard - Can get Academy Rector, Arena Rector, Dark Confidant, Notion Thief, Snapcaster Mage, Spellseeker, Trinket Mage. I rate any shuffle effect very highly. It allows you to combo win under the infinite, as you can search up Spellseeker getting Demonic Tutor or whatever. Oath of Jace - You can get through so much of your deck with this card. Another instant win condition under the infinite. Entomb - I am surprised you don't have this in the deck, but I can see you've gone more into the Super Friends lane. But you do have Replenish and so this is another way to get Omniscience into play. Pact of Negation - It's a combo deck, so in theory you are setting up not to pass the turn back, and it's always nice to have a zero costing counterspell to protect your plan. I never leave home without this for combo.
Throne of Geth is a new one I've added, but it does allow you to combo win on the turn you play Tezzeret the Seeker if you have 4 extra available and Aminatou.
You can Tezzeret [-2] search the Throne of Geth. Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret, then use Throne of Geth to put a loyalty counter on your planweswalkers, but most importantly it puts Tezzeret on 5 loyalty. Now you can Tezzeret [-4] search for The Chain Veil. Activate the The Chain Veil with 4. Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret, and now he'll have two activation's. Tezzeret [-1] Search for Mana Vault tap for 3. Tezzeret [+1] to untap The Chain Veil and Mana Vault to activate it again. Now you can Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret and he'll have 3 activation's. You just need to make sure you start searching for colored artifact sources so that you can recast Aminatou from the commander zone.
Now admittedly the chances of you casting Tezzeret the Seeker AND having 4 extra avaible, i.e. 9 mana are going to be slimish. So the point of it is to have an instant win with Flash + Arena Rector. Either needing 6 mana -OR- you flash in before your turn, and then you only need the 4 mana.
Now it's fine not to have this combo, after all you can just cast Tezzeret the Seeker and [+1] him to get him up to 5 loyalty and then pass the turn and look to defend him, if that's the route you'd want to take. Throne of Geth is also solidly not a great card to draw at any other time, it will cause some awkward moments for sure. But I thought I'd point out the combo. [EDIT]
I should point out if you do have a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith already in play then it is going to be easier. You can in fact use the first Aminatou [-1] on the artifact mana. So for example say you cast Tezzeret the Seeker off a Mana Vault already in play. You can use Aminatou [-1] on the Mana Vault and now you'll only need an extra one mana, so that's a natural 6 mana (5 mana to cast Tezzeret in the first place). So that does set you up for some Turn 4 wins this way.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale does look pretty mean in your deck, with Armageddon and Ravages of War. It's going to be hard for opponents to put pressure on your walkers if you get to do that sequence. But it's important to consider this a spell and not part of your lands counts.
As far as cuts, this is where I really struggle with as well, as only you can really tell whats working for your deck structure.
Maybe Altar of the Brood as The Gitrog Monster is popular cEDH and has Kozilek, Butcher of Truth which would void the Altar/Felidar Guardian win.
I'm not a huge fan of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in multiplayer.
But after this is super tight between everything. I personally wouldn't be in on the Stax plan as you do have expensive cards, but it's probably provided you with success, so can't make that call for you either
I've realized that I really should add Dark Confidant to both my lists.
Heart of Kiran is on my short list, likely to be added with Sun titan soon.
Throne of geth also seems sweet and I want to try that out.
I use Altar since it kills everyone with Felidar/Aminatou.
Don't have a gitrog deck in my meta but in cases where players abuse things like Nexus of fate it's less of an issue.
Also, yes I love Dark Confidant in this build.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Well, i can just get Razaketh, that's not a problem.
Thing is, i'm not yet convinced i want it.
Also, i'm using my opponents for reanimation targets a lot too. This one game, i kept chaining someones sakura-tribe elder with Sun Titan.
I might try it, but i'm having trouble with cutting things. I want to try out Flash too, and maybe want more planeswalkers, since i play Oath of Teferi and the Chain Veil.
I've added Dark Confidant to both the Super Friends and the Reanimation deck. I really should have had Bob in the original lists, as it's just cheap card advantage, works super nice with Aminatou [+1], and can threaten to block. You can put a land on top to take no damage. Also just curves out nicely on the Turn 2 play into Turn 3 Aminatou.
I took out Will Kenrith from Super Friends deck. It is expensive, and the ultimate isn't that fantastic in this particular deck, as there are not a lot of instants and soceries to copy for anything game breaking anyway.
I took out the Gilded Lotus a while ago and Will did have an infinite with Heart of Kiran + Oath of Teferi/The Chain Veil + Gilded Lotus, but I mean all these cards are premium combo pieces to start with so you're likely to combo off in other ways anyway.
You can target the Sun Titan with Parallax Wave and some number of other 'enter the battlefield' creatures, and then Aminatou [-1] the Parallax Wave. This will cause the Sun Titan to come back into play. If you make sure you use Heart of Kiran to put Aminatou into the graveyard before the Titan comes back into play, so that you can bring her back. You can loop this infinitely, and as long as you have another ETB creature to gain advantage.
[EDIT]
Actually a neat trick you can do, is with Emeria Shepherd and Parallax Wave, where you can respond to removal, for example a creature board wipe, by exiling the Emeria Shepherd. Just make sure that Parallax Wave has no counters at the beginning of your upkeep. The Parallax Wave will go to graveyard and Emeria Shepherd will come back into play. Now you can Aminatou [-1] a Plains to bring Parallax Wave back into play. If Aminatou was removed from play previously, then if you have a land in hand (or gamble on drawing one) then you can just let her go to the graveyard. This way when you play a land, you can return her to hand, because we will assume it's probably not a Plains you'll have. But that is fine spending WUB to cast Aminatou is pretty easy.
Now you can Aminatou [-1] an actual Plains to bring back the Parallax Wave.
It's just a nice way to protect everything you have, and if you have other 'enter the battlefield' creatures you can look to get their triggers each turn.
Additionally if you have "creature lands" in the deck, then you can look to make them into a creature and use the Parallax Wave to exile them. You'll get 'landfall' triggers off them when they come back into play, so you could look to really abuse this with Emeria Shepherd.
I've been trying to figure out a way of getting Admonition Angel to synergies with combos, but there really hasn't been many avenues.
But the one I can think of one using it in conjunction with Parallax Wave and creature lands.
You can for example make Inkmoth Nexus a creature, and then use Parallax Wave to exile it.
Then with Aminatou [-1] on the stack targeting Parallax Wave you exile the Admonition Angel. Admonition Angel and Inkmoth Nexus will come back into play and you can target the landfall trigger on Aminatou to exile it. Then you can exile Admonition Angel and Inkmoth Nexus with Parallax Wave again, which will cause Aminatou to come back into play. Once again you can Aminatou [-1] the Parallax Wave and this is an infinite loop.
You'll need some other 'enter the battlefield' creature to gain advantage with this loop. Also to be actually "infinite" it needs to be one of the lands that only requires one mana to activate as a creature, like Inkmoth Nexus, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, because they can literally tap to pay for themselves.
Admittedly trying to find room in a three colored deck Esper deck for colorless lands is pretty hard.
On another note: Are there 2 card combo's we could use in this deck.. and I do mean 2 cards that synergies with the deck also.. I found that I had options to search a few games but didn't really get to search for wins outright even though I searched multiple times in the last game... (Though also one was playing control blue, which made it harder to really get my gameplan going...)
I'm assuming that you're playing the Super Friends version. Let me know if you're playing any extra elements from the Reanimator deck as this will make different decision making potentially.
But it all comes down to how much mana you have, and what you might have already, either in hand or in play. So I'll try and give you some scenarios.
These decks are super intricate and complicated, and remembering exact amounts of mana you need to make things work is a real head scratchier. Like I've come up with the sequencing and I struggle to plan it out, so just like any deck you play, you will make mistakes/miscalculations, not know all the interactions, but that just means that you'll get forward to mastering it in time. It's only once you've actually assembled different combos a few times, that they'll click, and you'll be able to play them out better.
However you can just cast Arena Rector and hope to get it killed, with the fore-thought of also not getting Tezzeret killed before your turn however. Like you need to be able to protect him if Arena Rector is blocking and there are other opponents with creatures that can attack him. I've personally added Phyrexian Tower, so this is another card that you could easily tutor for if you've already got the Arena Rector.
I could honestly make a big decision tree diagram, that would list cards you might already have, and then what might be your best options. Available mana has a lot to do with it. But this is essentially how this deck plays. Figuring out your lines to combo and how to achieve them and you should make that part of the enjoyment, if it is a little stressful at first
There are also other infinite combos, but these are more if you have one or some of the cards already, or simply trying to get up to enough mana.
I activated Tezz while on 5 loyalty, getting Chain Veil, used Aminatou to blink Tezz, untapped 2 manarocks, paying for chain with them, now untapped chain on the second one and activated 1 rock.. having 1 spare mana, blinked Tezz again, rinse repeat.. Searching for colour rocks in between.. With colored mana used Demonic Tutor to try and look for an out to win.. Found Kaya (cause couldn't find any others that I could win with.. :P) Played Kaya and wel from there on just -1 her x4 then blink with Aminatou for life loss to death..
Now you can actually just use Tezzeret to search for Sensei's Divining Top, after you are essentially deep into the combo, as you have infinite. You can just tap to 'draw a card' it will go back on top, and then you use Tezzeret [-1] again to get it back out, so you can just draw your deck this way. Let me know if you don't have Sensei's Divining Top ($22) and we can try and figure out another card.
So far these changes have been positive. Got to Flash/Arena Rector into Tezzeret for a throne of geth combo and that was awesome. Keeping throne forever now.
Also, I was wanting to do my own write up on Aminatou and since the decks we have are different I think it would be good to add to the forums. This deck was my inspiration so I want to get your opinion first before I post anything.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
So far these changes have been positive. Got to Flash/Arena Rector into Tezzeret for a throne of geth combo and that was awesome. Keeping throne forever now.
Also, I was wanting to do my own write up on Aminatou and since the decks we have are different I think it would be good to add to the forums. This deck was my inspiration so I want to get your opinion first before I post anything.
Your deck looks all good to me brother. I think the only change I'd make is I swear by Pact of Negation anytime you have an infinite combo deck, and wanting to tap out for it. I would try and squeeze it in. Purely used in the combo turn to disrupt and disruption on you.
I swear by Pact of Negation anytime you have an infinite combo deck, and wanting to tap out for it. I would try and squeeze it in. Purely used in the combo turn to disrupt and disruption on you.
Normally I would agree but it's a meta call.
Our group runs so much land destruction and static orb effects that I don't think I could run it. I think something like Dispel, Delay, or Mental misstep would be better for me personally.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I swear by Pact of Negation anytime you have an infinite combo deck, and wanting to tap out for it. I would try and squeeze it in. Purely used in the combo turn to disrupt and disruption on you.
Normally I would agree but it's a meta call.
Our group runs so much land destruction and static orb effects that I don't think I could run it. I think something like Dispel, Delay, or Mental misstep would be better for me personally.
Yeah but the whole point is that your not passing the turn back, so the downside is never actually going to be used.
Mental Misstep is a card that can hit Relic of Progenitus and Deathrite Shaman, so that's why I have it in the Reanimator deck. It's a nice backup for Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile when you're trying to combo with a creature.
But with that being said, the decks can combo without the graveyard, so you can work around graveyard hate by lining something else up. I think that's one of the big strengths of the deck is that it can combo via graveyard antics, but can also combo on the board.
So not running Mental Misstep is fine.
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Mental Misstep[/card] is a card that can hit Relic of Progenitus and Deathrite Shaman, so that's why I have it in the Reanimator deck. It's a nice backup for Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile when you're trying to combo with a creature.
But with that being said, the decks can combo without the graveyard, so you can work around graveyard hate by lining something else up. I think that's one of the big strengths of the deck is that it can combo via graveyard antics, but can also combo on the board.
So not running Mental Misstep is fine.
I use it a lot in my reanimator deck but it may also be good in here since things like deathrite and other grave hate stop the flash package from working.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
In 4 player or more games I feel trading 1v1 on cards is bad, cause it leads to you and the one player you are stopping to getting behind the other 2, while they can still advance their board, etc.. Though I get why some cards like that might be needed at times..
Btw. What where the thoughts on adding Time Warp to be able to go infinite/alot of turns with Archaeomancer? Or maybe that is to much of 'been there, done that'.
Well speaking of one-for-one removal, I'm not normally a fan of either, for the reasons you mentioned.
I do play Swords to Plowshares just because it's so efficient.
Well a Guilds of Ravinca card has been spoiled and I definently think it legit for the Reanimator deck. Price of Fame.
As you mentioned I just don;t like running spot removal as for a couple of opponents it's like a two-for-zero. For several opponents they are two cards up on resources.
However with the mana efficiency of Price of Fame costing two mana most of the time, or still being able to destroy any creature at four mana, is pretty great.
But it's the Surveil 2 which means that the card is proactive for your Reanimation game plan, and can be used with Aminatou [+1] to filter away cards.
I actually think even without a really set graveyard strategy that this card is still good. Like I will seriously consider it for the Super Friends deck as well. Any time you can manipulation the top of your library for more efficient draws and disrupt your opponents, is pretty good.
It might be that I even literally replace Swords to Plowshares with it.
You can never go wrong with Time Warp. One in the deck is cool for sure. You can have them as simply a redraw, but obviously with Aminatou being so cheap to cast, you're probably going to gain a little bit of value.
The biggest thing about Emeria Shepherd is that you really want a Plains that comes into play untapped. I understand that spending hundreds of dollars is probably not wise
You can use Hallowed Fountain but that is going to lose you life. So it's just good to remember that Prairie Stream is one way of getting infinite U and W, but you have to have two basics already in play, which isn't the most consistent either.
You also can't get B from Emeria Shepherd with your land base. Godless Shrine $11 would allow you to do that at the cost of life however.
I'm just mentioning this stuff because it will make awkward situations with trying to combo with Emeria Shepherd.
There isn't really much you can do about it without throwing money into the deck. Any other additional fetchlands would help with consistently getting the Plains that you want for that combo.
I don't like Sea Gate Wreckage, it's unlikely that you're going to be out of cards to use it, and colorless lands are a bad idea for a three colored deck.
I think Liliana's Specter is a little suspect. Giving opponents the opportunity to actually choose a card from there hand can actually help them, i.e. opponent is playing a graveyard strategy deck, which is super common.
You can buy a Heart of Kiran for $1 now, and it really is a great Turn 2 play to protect Aminatou. Plus it has potential infinites.
Oath of Jace is a natural way to filter away your top card if you are using Aminatou [+1] ability. It is pretty nice to have this sitting there for that reason. You put your worst card on top of your library and then Scry it away.
Looking forward to building this into a potential monster. She's so fun to play
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
A quick (cheaper) fix for Emeria Shepherd & mana fixing might be Chromatic Lantern? Would allow the plains to tap for U and B too, as well as acting as ramp.
Instead of Commander's Sphere maybe?
Yeah that's a good idea. You're probably unlikely to trade in the Commander's Sphere for a card most games, as you'll probably always want the mana.
I was pretty interested in hearing about the surveil mechanic from Guilds of Ravinca as it sounded perfect for Aminatou, both in terms of working with her [+1] ability to put a card on top of library, and then be able to filter it away with surveil, and also for the reanimation deck as a mechanic to put potential reanimation targets into the graveyard.
The set has been fully spoiled, but in all honesty I was a little disappointed we didn't get more from the mechanic, however there were some gems.
Doom Wisperer is the only repeatable source of using the mechanic. I am very impressed with this creature, and in fact created an entire deck around it. You can check out the deck here => https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/798605
How does it measure up in the Aminatou decks? Well it certainly has some merit, it only cost 5 mana, so can easily be hard cast. It's a huge body 6/6 flying trample, which as blocker is going to match up with most creatures. With commanders 40 life your ability to filter through the top of your library, can mean that you can really be aggressive in finding combo pieces. But you can also use it marginally, using it with Aminatou [+1] or just simply to massage the top of your library to find quality cards, or even just to smooth out your mana.
Another interesting card is Lazav, the Multifarious. I talked about the "The Power of the Two-Drop Creatures with Aminatou" in a post, as you can use it as a precursor to casting Aminatou on Turn 3. Lazav, the Multifarious does have a 'Surveil 1' enter the battlefield trigger, which can use with Aminatou [+1]. The 1/3 body is also useful for blocking early creatures.
His ability to copy a creature in the graveyard however are a bit limited in these particular decks. You don't get enter the battlefield triggers, so the targets are fairly limited. I'm tempted but I think I'll take a rain check until some synergy comes to mind.
Price of Fame is about as good as creature removal gets for commander. Two mana to remove a creature commander or any legendary creature is great. But it also has library manipulation in 'Surveil 2', which lines up great with graveyard strategies. You can also cast it for four mana to target any creature, and this is fine in necessary spots. I think this should become a commander stable for any black deck.
1st of all: congratulations for this nice primer. It totally convinced me to have an aminatou deck.
I didn't see the question: did you ever think to use Gilded Drake ?
It seems pretty strong with Aminatou as you can steal opponent creatures that are too strongs.
Nevermind...
Just saw your thinking related to this card while finishing reading all the content of this thread (i'm a bit slow as a non-english native...):
- Gilded Drake - great card for hosing some commander strategies, but the 3/3 flying body is relevant against pressuring Aminatou.
1st of all: congratulations for this nice primer. It totally convinced me to have an aminatou deck.
I didn't see the question: did you ever think to use Gilded Drake ?
It seems pretty strong with Aminatou as you can steal opponent creatures that are too strongs.
Thank you, I've put a lot of tender loving care into this thread, trying to squeeze out any little angle I can think of
Even though I'm not running Gilded Drake anymore, it still is an amazing card with Aminatou. You can still do an exchange and then Aminatou [-1] the Gilded Drake, and then on the second time it comes into play just not do an exchange so it will go to graveyard, if you're worried about the 3/3 flyer.
At the end of the day you can also do the double commander exchange on two opponents, and be satisfied that Aminatou can just be killed, as often this might be enough that your opponents decks are so Commander/General centric that you can stop their game-plans dead.
So what I'm saying is that running Gilded Drake is a good thing. I'm just pushed for slots, and because I have some other planeswalkers to protect as well, I just decided to make room for the combos.
Have you thought of running Deadeye Tracker? It's not a superstar or anything, but it has meaningful topdeck interactions and can be a good early game defender. Also what are your thoughts on Suture Priest? I haven't tested it, but it could be nice. Nets infinite life off the Felidar Combo, weakens opposing token strategies. Not great as a two drop blocker tho.
I really like Thrummingbird and Skyship Plunderer in my list. Solid defenders, (even if they can't block well, they're combat effects can negate small attacks) and they let you threaten an Aminatou ultimate as soon as turn 4.
What do you think of Captivating Glance? It's surprisingly good secret tech in my experience. Since the end of turn trigger applies a static effect, you can flicker it after stealing something without losing the thing you stole. Falls more into the category of jank, but it's still pretty solid.
Aminatou goes infinite with Chain Veil if you have enough mana. The trick is to have enough Chain Veil activations saved up so that you can flick enough land to generate the 8 mana you'd need to activate the Chain Veil two more times, (thus paying for the commander tax when Aminatou dies).
With Aminatou and Chain Veil on the field.
1) activate Chain Veil, flicker it, repeat until Aminatou dies. (5 loyalty uses) (16 mana)
2) recast Aminatou, 3 mana plus tax. (5 loyalty) (21 mana)
3) flicker the Chain Veil and activate it twice, (7 loyalty) (29 mana)
4) Aminatou is at 1 loyalty, so uptick her and then flicker and active Chain Veil, do this as many times as possible (4). (11 loyalty) (45 mana)
5) Flicker Chain Veil 1 more time, this time killing Aminatou (12 loyalty) (49 mana)
6) repeat step 4-5 until you have enough loyalty activations (you'd need 25 + (commander tax * 2) I believe). (more than 98 mana)
It's super cost prohibitive, but if you can generate infinite mana it's possible. Granted if you have the Emeria Shepherd combo and the Chain Veil online, you probably don't need this to win.
Have you thought of running Deadeye Tracker? It's not a superstar or anything, but it has meaningful topdeck interactions and can be a good early game defender. Also what are your thoughts on Suture Priest? I haven't tested it, but it could be nice. Nets infinite life off the Felidar Combo, weakens opposing token strategies. Not great as a two drop blocker tho.
Actually that is pretty solid method of draw. Always Aminatou [+1] a land back on top. But I'm not sure about having to spend the 2 mana each time, even if you can get graveyard strategy decks with it. I guess I'd need to try it. Because there is a difference between using the Aminatou [+1], and you have 1 land in hand, so activate the tracker to get it back to play it. It now means that you don't have the tracker for responding to graveyard shenanigans. But this is miner I'm sure.
Suture Priest can give you infinite life with Felidar Guardian, but I've never consider infinite life to be a win condition. It's just going to depend on your metas, because often opponents are winning with infinite's as well, so it just gets cancelled out.
I really like Thrummingbird and Skyship Plunderer in my list. Solid defenders, (even if they can't block well, they're combat effects can negate small attacks) and they let you threaten an Aminatou ultimate as soon as turn 4.
There is definitely merit in having even some bad flying blockers to buy you some time if you want to uptick Aminatou. But the reason I haven't played them yet, is that with the other planeswalkers, I'm never really looking to play them out without having some other way of making them good, and then there are actually only six of them anyway. So I'm more or less waiting for the infinite's as opposed trying to incrementally building them up to ultimtate's.
What do you think of Captivating Glance? It's surprisingly good secret tech in my experience. Since the end of turn trigger applies a static effect, you can flicker it after stealing something without losing the thing you stole. Falls more into the category of jank, but it's still pretty solid.
I've never seen Captivating Glance before. I have to have completly control over what I'm sequencing for when I play If a random effect can either make or break how I play the turn, I just don't like it.
"Do you play out your Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with then intentions of it not being killed because you're going to steal the creature?". Then that fails and you've basically been two-for-one, if you've played out the enchantment without a successful clash. Sure you can try and use the Aminatou [+1] to setup for a winning clash, but then you're missing out on a potential Aminatou [-1] on the planeswalker. A very specific example, but I can just see it coming back to bite you. I think if you're going to play a steal creature cards Treachery is where it is at.
Aminatou goes infinite with Chain Veil if you have enough mana. The trick is to have enough Chain Veil activations saved up so that you can flick enough land to generate the 8 mana you'd need to activate the Chain Veil two more times, (thus paying for the commander tax when Aminatou dies).
With Aminatou and Chain Veil on the field.
1) activate Chain Veil, flicker it, repeat until Aminatou dies. (5 loyalty uses) (16 mana)
2) recast Aminatou, 3 mana plus tax. (5 loyalty) (21 mana)
3) flicker the Chain Veil and activate it twice, (7 loyalty) (29 mana)
4) Aminatou is at 1 loyalty, so uptick her and then flicker and active Chain Veil, do this as many times as possible (4). (11 loyalty) (45 mana)
5) Flicker Chain Veil 1 more time, this time killing Aminatou (12 loyalty) (49 mana)
6) repeat step 4-5 until you have enough loyalty activations (you'd need 25 + (commander tax * 2) I believe). (more than 98 mana)
It's super cost prohibitive, but if you can generate infinite mana it's possible. Granted if you have the Emeria Shepherd combo and the Chain Veil online, you probably don't need this to win.
Awesome, this is exactly the interactions I like to learn about.
AS you say you basically need infinite mana, but it also depends on if you can get the colored portion of casting Aminatou WUB + commander tax, for however times you need to recast her? This is important because decks can get infinite colorless mana via combos like Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, but if they need to recast her 3 times from commander zone then they'll also need the WUBWUBWUB.
Do you know how many times you have to recast her?
Have you thought of running Deadeye Tracker? It's not a superstar or anything, but it has meaningful topdeck interactions and can be a good early game defender. Also what are your thoughts on Suture Priest? I haven't tested it, but it could be nice. Nets infinite life off the Felidar Combo, weakens opposing token strategies. Not great as a two drop blocker tho.
Actually that is pretty solid method of draw. Always Aminatou [+1] a land back on top. But I'm not sure about having to spend the 2 mana each time, even if you can get graveyard strategy decks with it. I guess I'd need to try it. Because there is a difference between using the Aminatou [+1], and you have 1 land in hand, so activate the tracker to get it back to play it. It now means that you don't have the tracker for responding to graveyard shenanigans. But this is miner I'm sure.
Totally forgot about the graveyard effect. In my experience, the tracker does exactly what you'd expecting him to do. He's nice to get a land draw when you need it. And you can always just choose not to play the land, and hold open graveyard interactions until end of turn. It's worth consider the interactions with your own graveyard strategies. Being able to put Doom Whisperer on top and then exploring it into the graveyard is a solid play.
Suture Priest can give you infinite life with Felidar Guardian, but I've never consider infinite life to be a win condition. It's just going to depend on your metas, because often opponents are winning with infinite's as well, so it just gets cancelled out.
Right! I don't run the combo in my deck as of yet, so it's a card that's difficult to evaluate for me. My meta doesn't really run combos, but even then commander damage is still a thing.
I really like Thrummingbird and Skyship Plunderer in my list. Solid defenders, (even if they can't block well, they're combat effects can negate small attacks) and they let you threaten an Aminatou ultimate as soon as turn 4.
There is definitely merit in having even some bad flying blockers to buy you some time if you want to uptick Aminatou. But the reason I haven't played them yet, is that with the other planeswalkers, I'm never really looking to play them out without having some other way of making them good, and then there are actually only six of them anyway. So I'm more or less waiting for the infinite's as opposed trying to incrementally building them up to ultimtate's.
Okay, makes sense. I tend to favor a value train//tempo play style, so being able to threaten Aminatou's ult is a good way to discourage people building up board states. That said I just slotted them in the other day, and they have yet to make their virgin voyage.
What do you think of Captivating Glance? It's surprisingly good secret tech in my experience. Since the end of turn trigger applies a static effect, you can flicker it after stealing something without losing the thing you stole. Falls more into the category of jank, but it's still pretty solid.
I've never seen Captivating Glance before. I have to have completly control over what I'm sequencing for when I play If a random effect can either make or break how I play the turn, I just don't like it.
"Do you play out your Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with then intentions of it not being killed because you're going to steal the creature?". Then that fails and you've basically been two-for-one, if you've played out the enchantment without a successful clash. Sure you can try and use the Aminatou [+1] to setup for a winning clash, but then you're missing out on a potential Aminatou [-1] on the planeswalker. A very specific example, but I can just see it coming back to bite you. I think if you're going to play a steal creature cards Treachery is where it is at.
I understand. Often times I run out Captivating Glance as a way to clear the path for a planeswalker play next turn, but even then the value is iffy. Treachery on the other hand is extremely tempting. I'm curious to wonder how cards like Treachery could factor into the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo. On the one hand you would have to cast Aminatou more times if you're trying to use Treachery to offset the mana cost, but on the other hand colored mana would be a non problem.
I may end up cutting Captivating Glance, but I'm a big fan of running cards that usually suck but are made playable by the commander. I also run Demonic Pact and Shared Fate(Suprisingly good; Turns Aminatou's +1 into top control and later draw, and then when your opponent casts your things you just flicker them back. Also, it's total jank :P)
Aminatou goes infinite with Chain Veil if you have enough mana. The trick is to have enough Chain Veil activations saved up so that you can flick enough land to generate the 8 mana you'd need to activate the Chain Veil two more times, (thus paying for the commander tax when Aminatou dies).
With Aminatou and Chain Veil on the field.
1) activate Chain Veil, flicker it, repeat until Aminatou dies. (5 loyalty uses) (16 mana)
2) recast Aminatou, 3 mana plus tax. (5 loyalty) (21 mana)
3) flicker the Chain Veil and activate it twice, (7 loyalty) (29 mana)
4) Aminatou is at 1 loyalty, so uptick her and then flicker and active Chain Veil, do this as many times as possible (4). (11 loyalty) (45 mana)
5) Flicker Chain Veil 1 more time, this time killing Aminatou (12 loyalty) (49 mana)
6) repeat step 4-5 until you have enough loyalty activations (you'd need 25 + (commander tax * 2) I believe). (more than 98 mana)
It's super cost prohibitive, but if you can generate infinite mana it's possible. Granted if you have the Emeria Shepherd combo and the Chain Veil online, you probably don't need this to win.
Awesome, this is exactly the interactions I like to learn about.
AS you say you basically need infinite mana, but it also depends on if you can get the colored portion of casting Aminatou WUB + commander tax, for however times you need to recast her? This is important because decks can get infinite colorless mana via combos like Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, but if they need to recast her 3 times from commander zone then they'll also need the WUBWUBWUB.
Do you know how many times you have to recast her?
For sure. Assuming she's already on the field, you'd need to cast her at least 4 more times. However after the third cast, you can start flickering lands to pay for the colors. You can technically do it one at the end of the second cast, so you'd only have to spend 8 colored mana.
What has been your experience with the Flash combo? I'm sitting on a copy of Arena Rector, but I'm personally not a huge fan of the card. And the combo itself seems too glass cannon to justify a spot on my list. The number of tutors you run probably justifies it's slot.
How do you compare Search for Azcanta and Treasure Map? I'm not a huge fan of the former, usually because I'm not a combo deck and don't really need the dig ability. I am running the later but it's still a bit awkward to play, especially because it often wants to be actived on turn 3 which is also the turn Aminatou comes out.
Induced Amnesia deserves a mention. It doubles your hand every time you flicker it.
I also run Demonic Pact and Shared Fate(Suprisingly good; Turns Aminatou's +1 into top control and later draw, and then when your opponent casts your things you just flicker them back. Also, it's total jank :P)
I made a Shared Fate deck, that looked to play it out and then I'd exile my library so that I literally had no cards left, so opponents couldn't use me for cards It was beyond jank, and I think I only ever once pulled off actually having done it, but I still lost the game. It was more like a candy-glass canon deck, as a normal glass canon would be too solid for what I was doing, lol.
What has been your experience with the Flash combo? I'm sitting on a copy of Arena Rector, but I'm personally not a huge fan of the card. And the combo itself seems too glass cannon to justify a spot on my list. The number of tutors you run probably justifies it's slot.
I mean, Flash itself can obviously be a dead card for much of the game, but I personally have a sense of security that I'm only ever a card away from doing something broken. If that makes sense, you have a potential game plan. So the game might be spiraling out of control, and it gives you an out.
But I've set the deck up with the Aminatou + Tezzeret the Seeker combo win, with Throne of Geth. So only play it if you know exactly what your win condition is off doing it.
I think that Arena Rector is a great card, as it is a deterrent for just attacking into you. If your opponents are smart then they can setup sequential attacks to make it hard for you to search a planeswalker, as it'll just get attacked and killed by another opponents. But it's going to probably stop the opponent who is just before your turn from attacking into you.
How do you compare Search for Azcanta and Treasure Map? I'm not a huge fan of the former, usually because I'm not a combo deck and don't really need the dig ability. I am running the later but it's still a bit awkward to play, especially because it often wants to be actived on turn 3 which is also the turn Aminatou comes out.
I do love Treasure Map in general, I rate all the transform lands very highly in commander. Especially in color combinations that don't naturally have land ramp, i.e. Esper is one of those.
I had Treasure Map in the deck when I first started, but I cut it to make room for others cards. It's good still, making slots is just super hard, when I have specific combos cards. Search for Azcanta is amaze-balls. It's the real deal. Honestly if you have a 2 lander starting hand with Search for Azcanta, it's normally an auto keep, because it just give you so much room to find lands, and then if you even flood, ditch lands, and then it builds you up to even land ramp. One of my favorite cards in the last couple of years.
I mean, Flash itself can obviously be a dead card for much of the game, but I personally have a sense of security that I'm only ever a card away from doing something broken. If that makes sense, you have a potential game plan. So the game might be spiraling out of control, and it gives you an out.
But I've set the deck up with the Aminatou + Tezzeret the Seeker combo win, with Throne of Geth. So only play it if you know exactly what your win condition is off doing it.
I think that Arena Rector is a great card, as it is a deterrent for just attacking into you. If your opponents are smart then they can setup sequential attacks to make it hard for you to search a planeswalker, as it'll just get attacked and killed by another opponents. But it's going to probably stop the opponent who is just before your turn from attacking into you.
Fair dos. For me it'a not really worth the 4 mana, but if I decide to go the combo route I could definitely see myself slotting it in.
I do love Treasure Map in general, I rate all the transform lands very highly in commander. Especially in color combinations that don't naturally have land ramp, i.e. Esper is one of those.
I had Treasure Map in the deck when I first started, but I cut it to make room for others cards. It's good still, making slots is just super hard, when I have specific combos cards. Search for Azcanta is amaze-balls. It's the real deal. Honestly if you have a 2 lander starting hand with Search for Azcanta, it's normally an auto keep, because it just give you so much room to find lands, and then if you even flood, ditch lands, and then it builds you up to even land ramp. One of my favorite cards in the last couple of years.
Fair enough, you've convinced me. I think I'll give it another try.
edit: Also, Thing in the Ice seems like a good fit for your list. Tutors could trigger it, and it does a good job keeping would be attackers away, flip or no flip.
But cards I'll swear by are:
Heart of Kiran - It's just a stone wall on defense and has infinite combo potential. Re-read the primer sections on commander tax and Emeria Shepherd on how to combo with it.
Recruiter of the Guard - Can get Academy Rector, Arena Rector, Dark Confidant, Notion Thief, Snapcaster Mage, Spellseeker, Trinket Mage. I rate any shuffle effect very highly. It allows you to combo win under the infinite, as you can search up Spellseeker getting Demonic Tutor or whatever.
Oath of Jace - You can get through so much of your deck with this card. Another instant win condition under the infinite.
Entomb - I am surprised you don't have this in the deck, but I can see you've gone more into the Super Friends lane. But you do have Replenish and so this is another way to get Omniscience into play.
Pact of Negation - It's a combo deck, so in theory you are setting up not to pass the turn back, and it's always nice to have a zero costing counterspell to protect your plan. I never leave home without this for combo.
Throne of Geth is a new one I've added, but it does allow you to combo win on the turn you play Tezzeret the Seeker if you have 4 extra available and Aminatou.
You can Tezzeret [-2] search the Throne of Geth. Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret, then use Throne of Geth to put a loyalty counter on your planweswalkers, but most importantly it puts Tezzeret on 5 loyalty. Now you can Tezzeret [-4] search for The Chain Veil. Activate the The Chain Veil with 4. Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret, and now he'll have two activation's. Tezzeret [-1] Search for Mana Vault tap for 3. Tezzeret [+1] to untap The Chain Veil and Mana Vault to activate it again. Now you can Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret and he'll have 3 activation's. You just need to make sure you start searching for colored artifact sources so that you can recast Aminatou from the commander zone.
Now admittedly the chances of you casting Tezzeret the Seeker AND having 4 extra avaible, i.e. 9 mana are going to be slimish. So the point of it is to have an instant win with Flash + Arena Rector. Either needing 6 mana -OR- you flash in before your turn, and then you only need the 4 mana.
Now it's fine not to have this combo, after all you can just cast Tezzeret the Seeker and [+1] him to get him up to 5 loyalty and then pass the turn and look to defend him, if that's the route you'd want to take. Throne of Geth is also solidly not a great card to draw at any other time, it will cause some awkward moments for sure. But I thought I'd point out the combo.
[EDIT]
I should point out if you do have a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith already in play then it is going to be easier. You can in fact use the first Aminatou [-1] on the artifact mana. So for example say you cast Tezzeret the Seeker off a Mana Vault already in play. You can use Aminatou [-1] on the Mana Vault and now you'll only need an extra one mana, so that's a natural 6 mana (5 mana to cast Tezzeret in the first place). So that does set you up for some Turn 4 wins this way.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale does look pretty mean in your deck, with Armageddon and Ravages of War. It's going to be hard for opponents to put pressure on your walkers if you get to do that sequence. But it's important to consider this a spell and not part of your lands counts.
As far as cuts, this is where I really struggle with as well, as only you can really tell whats working for your deck structure.
Maybe Altar of the Brood as The Gitrog Monster is popular cEDH and has Kozilek, Butcher of Truth which would void the Altar/Felidar Guardian win.
I'm not a huge fan of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in multiplayer.
But after this is super tight between everything. I personally wouldn't be in on the Stax plan as you do have expensive cards, but it's probably provided you with success, so can't make that call for you either
I've realized that I really should add Dark Confidant to both my lists.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Throne of geth also seems sweet and I want to try that out.
I use Altar since it kills everyone with Felidar/Aminatou.
Don't have a gitrog deck in my meta but in cases where players abuse things like Nexus of fate it's less of an issue.
Also, yes I love Dark Confidant in this build.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
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I've added Dark Confidant to both the Super Friends and the Reanimation deck. I really should have had Bob in the original lists, as it's just cheap card advantage, works super nice with Aminatou [+1], and can threaten to block. You can put a land on top to take no damage. Also just curves out nicely on the Turn 2 play into Turn 3 Aminatou.
I took out Will Kenrith from Super Friends deck. It is expensive, and the ultimate isn't that fantastic in this particular deck, as there are not a lot of instants and soceries to copy for anything game breaking anyway.
I took out the Gilded Lotus a while ago and Will did have an infinite with Heart of Kiran + Oath of Teferi/The Chain Veil + Gilded Lotus, but I mean all these cards are premium combo pieces to start with so you're likely to combo off in other ways anyway.
Super Friends
Added
+ Dark Confidant
Removed
- Will Kenrith
Reanimation
Added
+ Dark Confidant
Removed
- Delay
I also figured out another infinite with cards already in the deck with:
Aminatou + Parallax Wave + Sun Titan + Heart of Kiran.
You can target the Sun Titan with Parallax Wave and some number of other 'enter the battlefield' creatures, and then Aminatou [-1] the Parallax Wave. This will cause the Sun Titan to come back into play. If you make sure you use Heart of Kiran to put Aminatou into the graveyard before the Titan comes back into play, so that you can bring her back. You can loop this infinitely, and as long as you have another ETB creature to gain advantage.
[EDIT]
Actually a neat trick you can do, is with Emeria Shepherd and Parallax Wave, where you can respond to removal, for example a creature board wipe, by exiling the Emeria Shepherd. Just make sure that Parallax Wave has no counters at the beginning of your upkeep. The Parallax Wave will go to graveyard and Emeria Shepherd will come back into play. Now you can Aminatou [-1] a Plains to bring Parallax Wave back into play. If Aminatou was removed from play previously, then if you have a land in hand (or gamble on drawing one) then you can just let her go to the graveyard. This way when you play a land, you can return her to hand, because we will assume it's probably not a Plains you'll have. But that is fine spending WUB to cast Aminatou is pretty easy.
Now you can Aminatou [-1] an actual Plains to bring back the Parallax Wave.
It's just a nice way to protect everything you have, and if you have other 'enter the battlefield' creatures you can look to get their triggers each turn.
Additionally if you have "creature lands" in the deck, then you can look to make them into a creature and use the Parallax Wave to exile them. You'll get 'landfall' triggers off them when they come back into play, so you could look to really abuse this with Emeria Shepherd.
Crature lands in Esper are: Inkmoth Nexus, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, Creeping Tar Pit, Celestial Colonnade, Shambling Vent, Faerie Conclave, Forbidding Watchtower, Spawning Pool.
I've been trying to figure out a way of getting Admonition Angel to synergies with combos, but there really hasn't been many avenues.
But the one I can think of one using it in conjunction with Parallax Wave and creature lands.
You can for example make Inkmoth Nexus a creature, and then use Parallax Wave to exile it.
Then with Aminatou [-1] on the stack targeting Parallax Wave you exile the Admonition Angel. Admonition Angel and Inkmoth Nexus will come back into play and you can target the landfall trigger on Aminatou to exile it. Then you can exile Admonition Angel and Inkmoth Nexus with Parallax Wave again, which will cause Aminatou to come back into play. Once again you can Aminatou [-1] the Parallax Wave and this is an infinite loop.
You'll need some other 'enter the battlefield' creature to gain advantage with this loop. Also to be actually "infinite" it needs to be one of the lands that only requires one mana to activate as a creature, like Inkmoth Nexus, Blinkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, because they can literally tap to pay for themselves.
Admittedly trying to find room in a three colored deck Esper deck for colorless lands is pretty hard.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
But it all comes down to how much mana you have, and what you might have already, either in hand or in play. So I'll try and give you some scenarios.
These decks are super intricate and complicated, and remembering exact amounts of mana you need to make things work is a real head scratchier. Like I've come up with the sequencing and I struggle to plan it out, so just like any deck you play, you will make mistakes/miscalculations, not know all the interactions, but that just means that you'll get forward to mastering it in time. It's only once you've actually assembled different combos a few times, that they'll click, and you'll be able to play them out better.
With the Aminatou and Tezzeret the Seeker combo you need to put him into play AND have 4 to activate The Chain Veil if you were to try and win in the same turn. I've listed the sequencing here => https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/796621-c18-1-4-aminatou-the-fateshifter-the-8-year-old#A
If you to cast Tezzeret naturally, means you'd need 3UU + 4, which is kind of unlikely early to mid game.
So by far the cheapest way of trying to get wins with little amounts of mana is the Flash + Arena Rector. You can even look to set this up to cast just before your turn as Flash is an instant, and this will mean that you literally only need to have 4 mana in play all up.
Cards that can get Flash are Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Spellseeker.
Cards that can get Arena Rector are Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor, Recruiter of the Guard.
However you can just cast Arena Rector and hope to get it killed, with the fore-thought of also not getting Tezzeret killed before your turn however. Like you need to be able to protect him if Arena Rector is blocking and there are other opponents with creatures that can attack him. I've personally added Phyrexian Tower, so this is another card that you could easily tutor for if you've already got the Arena Rector.
Oath of Gideon followed by Tezzeret the Seeker can also get an instant win. If you've already cast Oath of Gideon then Tezzeret will come into play with 5 loyalty. You can Tezzeret [-4] to get the The Chain Veil. Aminatou [-1] Tezzeret, and then he can [-1] to get Mana Vault. So you actually only need 3UU + 1 to start the combo (as you get the Mana Vault for the other 3). So this might also be a combination of cards you want to get.
The neat thing about Oath of Gideon is that it puts two 1/1s into play. So for example you could cast Oath of Gideon on Turn 3/4, and then cast Aminatou on Turn 4/5, maybe along with a tutor, and Aminatou [-1] the Oath of Gideon to put another two 1/1s into play all up, and this might be enough to really protect her. Then you could cast Tezzeret on Turn 6 assuming you have 6 lands.
Cards that get Oath of Gideon are Enlightened Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor, Academy Rector, Thalia's Lancers.
Cards that get Tezzeret the Seeker are Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor, Arena Rector, Thalia's Lancers.
Our next "cheapest" combos are to do with Felidar Guardian. The best card to combo with Felidar Guardian is Oath of Teferi. However it is imperative that you have some other card that can be blinked out with Aminatou [-1] to get value.
Make sure you read the Felidar Guardian section in the primer to know what all the cards are, but essentially any permanent (land, creature, planeswalker) that has an 'enter the battlefield' trigger.
I'm mentioning this because it is important that if you're looking to assemble the combo, as you have a Demonic Tutor, etc, that you do have another permanent if you do look to put Felidar Guardian and Oath of Teferi together.
Cards that can get Felidar Guardian are Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor.
Cards that get Oath of Teferi are Enlightened Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor, Academy Rector, Thalia's Lancers.
You might just have Spellseeker. You could cast Spellseeker and get Flash and then Aminatou [-1] the Spellseeker to get Vampiric Tutor. Vampiric Tutor can then get Arena Rector.
You might just have Recruiter of the Guard. You could cast Recruiter of the Guard getting Arena Rector then Aminatou [-1] Recruiter of the Guard to get Academy Rector. Then you could just cast them out and hope to get them killed, getting Tezzeret the Seeker and Oath of Teferi.
-OR-
You could use Recruiter of the Guard to get Spellseeker and then Aminatou [-1] Recruiter of the Guard to get Arena Rector. Cast Spellseeker to get Flash. This seems to be the better option. You could even Aminatou [-1] the Spellseeker to get counterspell backup, Pact of Negation, etc.
I could honestly make a big decision tree diagram, that would list cards you might already have, and then what might be your best options. Available mana has a lot to do with it. But this is essentially how this deck plays. Figuring out your lines to combo and how to achieve them and you should make that part of the enjoyment, if it is a little stressful at first
There are also other infinite combos, but these are more if you have one or some of the cards already, or simply trying to get up to enough mana.
Aminatou + Parallax Wave + Felidar Guardian + some other ETB creature that will win you the game.
Aminatou + Parallax Wave + Sun Titan + Heart of Kiran + some other ETB creature that will win you the game.
Aminatou + Emeria Shepherd + Clever Impersonator.
Aminatou + Emeria Shepherd + Heart of Kiran.
Aminatou + Sun Titan + Heart of Kiran + Oath of Teferi/The Chain Veil.
Now you can actually just use Tezzeret to search for Sensei's Divining Top, after you are essentially deep into the combo, as you have infinite. You can just tap to 'draw a card' it will go back on top, and then you use Tezzeret [-1] again to get it back out, so you can just draw your deck this way. Let me know if you don't have Sensei's Divining Top ($22) and we can try and figure out another card.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/aminatou-the-infinite/?cb=1536775717
-Plains
-Vela the Night-Clad
-Jace, the mind scluptor
-Grasp of fate
-djinn of wishes
+The tabernacle at pendrell vale
+Heart of kiran
+Throne of geth
+Oath of jace
+Phyrexian tower
So far these changes have been positive. Got to Flash/Arena Rector into Tezzeret for a throne of geth combo and that was awesome. Keeping throne forever now.
Also, I was wanting to do my own write up on Aminatou and since the decks we have are different I think it would be good to add to the forums. This deck was my inspiration so I want to get your opinion first before I post anything.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Normally I would agree but it's a meta call.
Our group runs so much land destruction and static orb effects that I don't think I could run it. I think something like Dispel, Delay, or Mental misstep would be better for me personally.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Mental Misstep is a card that can hit Relic of Progenitus and Deathrite Shaman, so that's why I have it in the Reanimator deck. It's a nice backup for Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile when you're trying to combo with a creature.
But with that being said, the decks can combo without the graveyard, so you can work around graveyard hate by lining something else up. I think that's one of the big strengths of the deck is that it can combo via graveyard antics, but can also combo on the board.
So not running Mental Misstep is fine.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I use it a lot in my reanimator deck but it may also be good in here since things like deathrite and other grave hate stop the flash package from working.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
I do play Swords to Plowshares just because it's so efficient.
Well a Guilds of Ravinca card has been spoiled and I definently think it legit for the Reanimator deck. Price of Fame.
As you mentioned I just don;t like running spot removal as for a couple of opponents it's like a two-for-zero. For several opponents they are two cards up on resources.
However with the mana efficiency of Price of Fame costing two mana most of the time, or still being able to destroy any creature at four mana, is pretty great.
But it's the Surveil 2 which means that the card is proactive for your Reanimation game plan, and can be used with Aminatou [+1] to filter away cards.
I actually think even without a really set graveyard strategy that this card is still good. Like I will seriously consider it for the Super Friends deck as well. Any time you can manipulation the top of your library for more efficient draws and disrupt your opponents, is pretty good.
It might be that I even literally replace Swords to Plowshares with it.
You can never go wrong with Time Warp. One in the deck is cool for sure. You can have them as simply a redraw, but obviously with Aminatou being so cheap to cast, you're probably going to gain a little bit of value.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The biggest thing about Emeria Shepherd is that you really want a Plains that comes into play untapped. I understand that spending hundreds of dollars is probably not wise
You can use Hallowed Fountain but that is going to lose you life. So it's just good to remember that Prairie Stream is one way of getting infinite U and W, but you have to have two basics already in play, which isn't the most consistent either.
You also can't get B from Emeria Shepherd with your land base. Godless Shrine $11 would allow you to do that at the cost of life however.
I'm just mentioning this stuff because it will make awkward situations with trying to combo with Emeria Shepherd.
There isn't really much you can do about it without throwing money into the deck. Any other additional fetchlands would help with consistently getting the Plains that you want for that combo.
I don't like Sea Gate Wreckage, it's unlikely that you're going to be out of cards to use it, and colorless lands are a bad idea for a three colored deck.
I think Liliana's Specter is a little suspect. Giving opponents the opportunity to actually choose a card from there hand can actually help them, i.e. opponent is playing a graveyard strategy deck, which is super common.
You can buy a Heart of Kiran for $1 now, and it really is a great Turn 2 play to protect Aminatou. Plus it has potential infinites.
Oath of Jace is a natural way to filter away your top card if you are using Aminatou [+1] ability. It is pretty nice to have this sitting there for that reason. You put your worst card on top of your library and then Scry it away.
Those are my biggest suggestions.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/798546-aminatou-the-infinite
Looking forward to building this into a potential monster. She's so fun to play
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The set has been fully spoiled, but in all honesty I was a little disappointed we didn't get more from the mechanic, however there were some gems.
Doom Wisperer is the only repeatable source of using the mechanic. I am very impressed with this creature, and in fact created an entire deck around it. You can check out the deck here => https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/798605
How does it measure up in the Aminatou decks? Well it certainly has some merit, it only cost 5 mana, so can easily be hard cast. It's a huge body 6/6 flying trample, which as blocker is going to match up with most creatures. With commanders 40 life your ability to filter through the top of your library, can mean that you can really be aggressive in finding combo pieces. But you can also use it marginally, using it with Aminatou [+1] or just simply to massage the top of your library to find quality cards, or even just to smooth out your mana.
Another interesting card is Lazav, the Multifarious. I talked about the "The Power of the Two-Drop Creatures with Aminatou" in a post, as you can use it as a precursor to casting Aminatou on Turn 3.
Lazav, the Multifarious does have a 'Surveil 1' enter the battlefield trigger, which can use with Aminatou [+1]. The 1/3 body is also useful for blocking early creatures.
His ability to copy a creature in the graveyard however are a bit limited in these particular decks. You don't get enter the battlefield triggers, so the targets are fairly limited. I'm tempted but I think I'll take a rain check until some synergy comes to mind.
Price of Fame is about as good as creature removal gets for commander. Two mana to remove a creature commander or any legendary creature is great. But it also has library manipulation in 'Surveil 2', which lines up great with graveyard strategies. You can also cast it for four mana to target any creature, and this is fine in necessary spots. I think this should become a commander stable for any black deck.
Reanimation
Added
+ Price of Fame
+ Doom Wisperer
Removed
- Lotus Petal
- Mental Misstep
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I didn't see the question: did you ever think to use Gilded Drake ?
It seems pretty strong with Aminatou as you can steal opponent creatures that are too strongs.
Just saw your thinking related to this card while finishing reading all the content of this thread (i'm a bit slow as a non-english native...):
Even though I'm not running Gilded Drake anymore, it still is an amazing card with Aminatou. You can still do an exchange and then Aminatou [-1] the Gilded Drake, and then on the second time it comes into play just not do an exchange so it will go to graveyard, if you're worried about the 3/3 flyer.
At the end of the day you can also do the double commander exchange on two opponents, and be satisfied that Aminatou can just be killed, as often this might be enough that your opponents decks are so Commander/General centric that you can stop their game-plans dead.
So what I'm saying is that running Gilded Drake is a good thing. I'm just pushed for slots, and because I have some other planeswalkers to protect as well, I just decided to make room for the combos.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Have you thought of running Deadeye Tracker? It's not a superstar or anything, but it has meaningful topdeck interactions and can be a good early game defender. Also what are your thoughts on Suture Priest? I haven't tested it, but it could be nice. Nets infinite life off the Felidar Combo, weakens opposing token strategies. Not great as a two drop blocker tho.
I really like Thrummingbird and Skyship Plunderer in my list. Solid defenders, (even if they can't block well, they're combat effects can negate small attacks) and they let you threaten an Aminatou ultimate as soon as turn 4.
What do you think of Captivating Glance? It's surprisingly good secret tech in my experience. Since the end of turn trigger applies a static effect, you can flicker it after stealing something without losing the thing you stole. Falls more into the category of jank, but it's still pretty solid.
Aminatou goes infinite with Chain Veil if you have enough mana. The trick is to have enough Chain Veil activations saved up so that you can flick enough land to generate the 8 mana you'd need to activate the Chain Veil two more times, (thus paying for the commander tax when Aminatou dies).
With Aminatou and Chain Veil on the field.
1) activate Chain Veil, flicker it, repeat until Aminatou dies. (5 loyalty uses) (16 mana)
2) recast Aminatou, 3 mana plus tax. (5 loyalty) (21 mana)
3) flicker the Chain Veil and activate it twice, (7 loyalty) (29 mana)
4) Aminatou is at 1 loyalty, so uptick her and then flicker and active Chain Veil, do this as many times as possible (4). (11 loyalty) (45 mana)
5) Flicker Chain Veil 1 more time, this time killing Aminatou (12 loyalty) (49 mana)
6) repeat step 4-5 until you have enough loyalty activations (you'd need 25 + (commander tax * 2) I believe). (more than 98 mana)
It's super cost prohibitive, but if you can generate infinite mana it's possible. Granted if you have the Emeria Shepherd combo and the Chain Veil online, you probably don't need this to win.
Actually that is pretty solid method of draw. Always Aminatou [+1] a land back on top. But I'm not sure about having to spend the 2 mana each time, even if you can get graveyard strategy decks with it. I guess I'd need to try it. Because there is a difference between using the Aminatou [+1], and you have 1 land in hand, so activate the tracker to get it back to play it. It now means that you don't have the tracker for responding to graveyard shenanigans. But this is miner I'm sure.
Suture Priest can give you infinite life with Felidar Guardian, but I've never consider infinite life to be a win condition. It's just going to depend on your metas, because often opponents are winning with infinite's as well, so it just gets cancelled out.
There is definitely merit in having even some bad flying blockers to buy you some time if you want to uptick Aminatou. But the reason I haven't played them yet, is that with the other planeswalkers, I'm never really looking to play them out without having some other way of making them good, and then there are actually only six of them anyway. So I'm more or less waiting for the infinite's as opposed trying to incrementally building them up to ultimtate's.
I've never seen Captivating Glance before. I have to have completly control over what I'm sequencing for when I play If a random effect can either make or break how I play the turn, I just don't like it.
"Do you play out your Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with then intentions of it not being killed because you're going to steal the creature?". Then that fails and you've basically been two-for-one, if you've played out the enchantment without a successful clash. Sure you can try and use the Aminatou [+1] to setup for a winning clash, but then you're missing out on a potential Aminatou [-1] on the planeswalker. A very specific example, but I can just see it coming back to bite you. I think if you're going to play a steal creature cards Treachery is where it is at.
Awesome, this is exactly the interactions I like to learn about.
AS you say you basically need infinite mana, but it also depends on if you can get the colored portion of casting Aminatou WUB + commander tax, for however times you need to recast her? This is important because decks can get infinite colorless mana via combos like Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, but if they need to recast her 3 times from commander zone then they'll also need the WUBWUBWUB.
Do you know how many times you have to recast her?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Totally forgot about the graveyard effect. In my experience, the tracker does exactly what you'd expecting him to do. He's nice to get a land draw when you need it. And you can always just choose not to play the land, and hold open graveyard interactions until end of turn. It's worth consider the interactions with your own graveyard strategies. Being able to put Doom Whisperer on top and then exploring it into the graveyard is a solid play.
Right! I don't run the combo in my deck as of yet, so it's a card that's difficult to evaluate for me. My meta doesn't really run combos, but even then commander damage is still a thing.
Okay, makes sense. I tend to favor a value train//tempo play style, so being able to threaten Aminatou's ult is a good way to discourage people building up board states. That said I just slotted them in the other day, and they have yet to make their virgin voyage.
I understand. Often times I run out Captivating Glance as a way to clear the path for a planeswalker play next turn, but even then the value is iffy. Treachery on the other hand is extremely tempting. I'm curious to wonder how cards like Treachery could factor into the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo. On the one hand you would have to cast Aminatou more times if you're trying to use Treachery to offset the mana cost, but on the other hand colored mana would be a non problem.
I may end up cutting Captivating Glance, but I'm a big fan of running cards that usually suck but are made playable by the commander. I also run Demonic Pact and Shared Fate(Suprisingly good; Turns Aminatou's +1 into top control and later draw, and then when your opponent casts your things you just flicker them back. Also, it's total jank :P)
For sure. Assuming she's already on the field, you'd need to cast her at least 4 more times. However after the third cast, you can start flickering lands to pay for the colors. You can technically do it one at the end of the second cast, so you'd only have to spend 8 colored mana.
What has been your experience with the Flash combo? I'm sitting on a copy of Arena Rector, but I'm personally not a huge fan of the card. And the combo itself seems too glass cannon to justify a spot on my list. The number of tutors you run probably justifies it's slot.
How do you compare Search for Azcanta and Treasure Map? I'm not a huge fan of the former, usually because I'm not a combo deck and don't really need the dig ability. I am running the later but it's still a bit awkward to play, especially because it often wants to be actived on turn 3 which is also the turn Aminatou comes out.
Induced Amnesia deserves a mention. It doubles your hand every time you flicker it.
I mean, Flash itself can obviously be a dead card for much of the game, but I personally have a sense of security that I'm only ever a card away from doing something broken. If that makes sense, you have a potential game plan. So the game might be spiraling out of control, and it gives you an out.
But I've set the deck up with the Aminatou + Tezzeret the Seeker combo win, with Throne of Geth. So only play it if you know exactly what your win condition is off doing it.
I think that Arena Rector is a great card, as it is a deterrent for just attacking into you. If your opponents are smart then they can setup sequential attacks to make it hard for you to search a planeswalker, as it'll just get attacked and killed by another opponents. But it's going to probably stop the opponent who is just before your turn from attacking into you.
I do love Treasure Map in general, I rate all the transform lands very highly in commander. Especially in color combinations that don't naturally have land ramp, i.e. Esper is one of those.
I had Treasure Map in the deck when I first started, but I cut it to make room for others cards. It's good still, making slots is just super hard, when I have specific combos cards.
Search for Azcanta is amaze-balls. It's the real deal. Honestly if you have a 2 lander starting hand with Search for Azcanta, it's normally an auto keep, because it just give you so much room to find lands, and then if you even flood, ditch lands, and then it builds you up to even land ramp. One of my favorite cards in the last couple of years.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Fair dos. For me it'a not really worth the 4 mana, but if I decide to go the combo route I could definitely see myself slotting it in.
Fair enough, you've convinced me. I think I'll give it another try.
Thoughts on Scrying Sheets? I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Isolated Watchtower didn't perform as well as I'd hoped.
edit: Also, Thing in the Ice seems like a good fit for your list. Tutors could trigger it, and it does a good job keeping would be attackers away, flip or no flip.