I know this is anecdotal evidence, but today I went to play at a Modern event. We didn't have enough people to run it. The LGS owner said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Looks like I'm going to have to make every Saturday Legacy day. Nobody seems to want to play Modern."
This is also only one data point, but at my LGS, they tried to run Modern a few months ago and got literally *two* people to show up. They eventually canceled the event entirely. Legacy on the other hand receives between 16 - 28 players a week and we now have two stores that run weekly events on two different days (with similar turnout).
Well, I'd think that this thread is bais, simply existing in legacy's sub. Modern is played around my area. Legacy is completely dead. Modern keeps increasing numbers.
But, hey, I'm bais too. Infallible really had the best point, its kinda impossible to compare who has more people, aside from actual touris. FMNs/stores are much too loose. Comparing those would be a he said she said contest.
Well, I'd think that this thread is bais, simply existing in legacy's sub. Modern is played around my area. Legacy is completely dead. Modern keeps increasing numbers.
But, hey, I'm bais too. Infallible really had the best point, its kinda impossible to compare who has more people, aside from actual touris. FMNs/stores are much too loose. Comparing those would be a he said she said contest.
So where can we get actual world wide data? Who has it and will they share it with the public? Certainly there has to be a way to determine the growth of a format.
I might be biased since my local area is semi-small, but I believe the core issues shown are general, I'll explain what I'm thinking is causing the slow agonizing death of legacy in some places:
I played up untill 2008 here, then had a 5 years hiatus, now when I played in 2008 we had a thriving vintage and legacy community, we had one of the biggest leagues in center italy which ended in Rome, but still, atleast 20-30 players of vintage and legacy were the standard here.Now I'm one of 2 people admitting I still like vintage and would play it, and we probably have a core group of 4-5 legacy players.I'm not counting the hidden players that may be there but are turned away to not having tournaments or things like that, but the situation is easy to read, in atleast a 100km radius legacy and vintage are dead.
The issue to me is kinda complex, the first point is that modern is easy to get into, and generally appeals younger players.Before someone kills me for that, WAIT UNTILL THE END please. Modern is also more standard-like and definitely shares more of a cardpool of standard than legacy, wotc also admitted that they want to support the format with key reprints, also if you notice, people tend to have power issues in legacy, they feel combo is unfair, they feel the format has too much power in general but especially they feel the format is too quick and "cerebral".
this atleast is the consensus here, and if it were only these points we could still argue that we should still have atleast a legacy scene right? But here comes the deal killers in my zone and I think at large:
Money is the issue.Yeah I went there.
1)Prices, when a competitive deck can go from 1500€ to upwards of 2700€ and maybe more, people will not play in the format in they don't enjoy it and have chances of return of investment(roi)
2) LGS's here don't sell singles because people will buy them online IF they do.Now considering prices + availability we can already see how people constrained for cash would consider modern a lot more, it's just more affordable.
3)Tournaments: they don't bring the same numbers of modern in most places, maybe in the USA with SCG open and such it's different but here it seems a lot harder to bring in profits to keep fueling the tournaments.
Now if you combine all of this it's already easy to see some core flaws:
higher prices means less people buying cards, less people buying means shop have to markup the prices or host less tournaments if there are not enough people, which means that less players will care about the format since they have incentives of playing modern, which is just a cycle downwards spiral.
Now if you add the other issues which are debatable but still exist it goes even worse.
Wotc supports modern, which means I can get decks for a cheaper price, which means more tournies since more players will show up and bring profit to the shops.Also supply is less of an issue since wizard will reprint some if not all cards eventually (I believe they will keep printing to lower the secondary market for ease of access without crashing it, and to sell more of their product), which are all good points.
Then you go to the irrationals which are things like... "modern is less unfair with turn 0-1combos" or "modern is better since it has more aggro and no dumb control ****" or "no retarded decks that won't let me play" these are all things I've directly heard from people, we can all argue if they have a point or not(I think these are just stupid claims but yeah...) and all goes downfall.
You know there's also a bit of perception, here we had 5-10 good players that supported legacy and vintage hardcore, once they quit the few remaining dumped all their legacy cards which now for people means "he's been playing legacy for like 10 years, IT MUST MEAN LEGACY IS DEAD".
I'm sure it won't really die out, it's just an extreme claim, but it's going the vintage/extended way, and unless wizards or the community can invert the trend is just in my opinion, a matter of time.Might take 6 months or 20 years, but I'm kinda thinking that vintage and legacy are agonizing away.
I'm really a nostalgic so I'm saddened...I never enjoyed the standard gameplay and I'm unsure if modern is a good eternal format still, I like that I can play some decks that legacy or vintage would just destroy, but it's a standard-like format which...isn't exactly my idea of magic...
I'll say one last thing: if you really like legacy WORK NOW to stop the trend, I'm personally trying to have unofficial tournies of vintage and legacy even with 60 cards proxies, I know that is extreme, but I hope people will realize the older formats have fun moments to be had and I generally hope to revive a bit the situation.
Also a bit selfish, I can always play in rome which seems to have a huge community but still...
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Vintage nostalgic, WUB Fish control/aggro addicted.
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
This is a problem for Legacy. This is also a problem for Modern. Why the hell would anyone pay $62 for a Thoughtseize when they can get Force of Will instead. Check the price on not just Tarmogoyf ($120), Vendilion Clique ($50), and Dark Confidant ($52), but also junk like Paradise Mantle ($10), Daybreak Coronet ($16), and countless others spiking almost hourly. If a new player can get a Modern deck for $800-1000 or a Legacy one for $1200-1500, then the latter is much more attractive.
2) The two formats are starting to look alike. This may sound weird, but actually the banning of old superstars + new powerful cards make those two formats vary in less and less ways.
To most players in Legacy or Modern, it is implied that Legacy is the superior format with an unfortunate higher cost of entry which prices people out, and Modern is merely the pauper's version which would do well to become a Legacy-lite. However, there are those who would prefer to have a different Modern format that is nothing like Legacy. However, even if that were the case, the formats look nothing alike. You have guys like LandBoySteve who switched from Modern to Legacy precisely because Modern was becoming more like Standard. You have Overextended fans quitting on Modern because of all the sets that got cut out and all the cards getting banned.
3) Modern is more interactive. Even thought it is full of combo decks, those combo decks feel more fair than a turn0 Emrakul. More colours are being used and Blue is not mandatory to put results. Actually it is not even the best colour, while legacy is more dependant on blue than a format should be. Even Vintage is not like that!!!!!
Not even close. Modern is not inherently an interactive format with its lack of Force of Will or even Counterspell, Daze, and Wasteland. Most interaction is contrived: either by the DCI banning cards when it gets out of control, or because the top tables used to consist of Jund mirrors all day because it was so overpowered relative to the rest of the format (with no combo decks as in Legacy to keep Jund in check).
4) Wizards supports modern better (shocklands, modern masters), while legacy players only have judge foils (which are absurdly expensive) and ftv.
That's true. However, Modern prices are still spiking up, probably at a higher rate than even Legacy now. If you want to use this as an indication that Modern is getting more popular, I would certainly say you're correct, but you'd have to concede that increasing prices of Legacy cards indicate the same about the growth of that format. Also, Wizards supported Extended much better than Legacy and check out where that format ended up.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Legacy is becoming a 'special occasion' format. Aside from the major legacy hotspots with +30 players, Legacy exists to play causally with other Legacy playing friends or as a format to prepare for the big SCG events. I imagine someone living out in Montana would be thrilled to have three other people to play with and given month.
Also, Legacy players are aging, so we really don't have as much free time as we'd like. I'd go to many more tournaments if my mom and dad bought me my deck and I didn't have anything to do on the weekends. As it is, most Legacy players can't let their lives revolve around Magic the same way Standard and Modern players can. We can certainly let our internet lives revolve around magic, but unless you're wealthy and committed enough to travel to ALL the SCG Opens, you're bound to have way more tournament opportunities in the lesser formats.
It's also easy to annihilate small Legacy metas beyond repair if you don't all stay friends. If you're too serious about Legacy, you can destroy said metas with your own passion/enthusiasm/dominance.
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Decks:
Legacy: RWBG Goblins RRR Burn WBU Affinity UBR Sac-Land Tendrils! BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
7 different archetypes represented in Top 8
11 different archetypes in the top 16
1st U/W Countertop - Alex Binek
2nd RUG Delver - Eric Rill
3rd 4-Color Loam - Jeff Hoogland
4th Elf Combo - Riley Curran
5th ANT - Ben Ball
6th Sneak and Show - Dave King
7th RUG Delver - Reed Hartman
8th 12 Post - Dan Neeley
9th U/W Stoneblade - Bernie Wen
10th RUG Delver - Andrew Hurst
11th Sneak and Show - Tom Nelson
12th Punishing Maverick - Josh Weinandy
13th Esper Stoneblade - Justin Uppal
14th Storm - Adam Prosak
15th Reanimator - Todd Anderson
16th U/R Delver - Terrel Boaz
Stoneblade and 'Show and Tell' are represented twice, RUG Delver represented three times.
Healthy diverse format. Seems good.
That is so cool to see something like that. Makes you feel like you can bring almost anything to an event and have a chance to do well, provided you're a decent player and not some scrub like me.
I dont think the format will disappear tomorrow. What i am worried about is that the card prices have reached a peak and are destined to drop. My question is are the staple prices at their peak? Will they plateau at their current rate? will they drop,and so when?
I inventoried my legacy staples and i have close to $8k at current retail prices, i can probably get between $5-$6.5. Should i sell now and buy back once the prices drop?
Prices won't drop. They have only climbed over the years. Plus as new cards get printed there is potential to bring life back into older cards. Look at shallow grave, was a staple, got out classed by reanimate/exhume/etc, now tin fins is a thing and its a 30$ card all of a sudden.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
Legacy players won't change to Modern for the simple reason that Modern is not Legacy.
They play Legacy for a reason, because it is powerful format, where most of all the fun cards are legal, I mean, they ban Sensei's Divining Top in Modern... Really ?
Modern is more appealing to Standard players that want to play their good ol' deck (Valakut, Affinity, etc) with some tweek.
If Modern were to be a Legacy-Lite, then we would have a reason to worry about Legacy, but since Modern is so much closer to Standard, Legacy isn't going to die anytime soon for that reason.
I'm not concerned about the format dying, but I am concerned about Wizard's continuing to reduce support for the format. I could even see them pressuring Star City to drop Legacy for Modern. This would be a serious blow to organized play for Legacy.
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with fan based magic. That means the table top only crowd to me. And I'm not sure of other places but here that represents a large legacy community that is growing. Those numbers are hard to track though because they don't appear at sanctioned events and stay relegated to a friends home.
In general as well we are not having large events here and yet the legacy base continues to grow. So if anything your "fan-base" seems to be saying it wants more legacy.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
Once SCG begins to decrease their support in Legacy for Opens. That is when I will begin to be worried. For now? Indy had the most players for an Open ever.
@Hagalaz
I will not apologize for my thoughts and I won't take back anything I wrote since I don't feel I offended anyone. As for the random numbers you throw, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics".
Now on topic
Most people confuse big tournaments/pro events with fan-based magic. I totally understand that SCG and others have made you think that Magic is all about invitationals, GPtop8s and stuff. Well it is not and usually big events follow fan based trend. They may take a while to adapt, but thats how things work. Thats what happened to legacy (where Madrid transferred the european trend to the USA) and thats what happened to Extended when fans abandoned the boat long before Wizards realized it. What I'm trying to say is that the fan-base trend is changing and with that eventually big events will reschedule if Wizards doesn't do something.
lol
"Let me completely ignore these actual (easy to find) statistics and evidence you've found that completely debunks my entire (not-fact-based) opinion."
GP Yokohama earlier his month. Format was gatecrash sealed 1167 in appearance.
The Legacy side event was played by 384 players, that's almost a third of all attendees.
Seems good
I think big events will always get turn out from Legacy players. Heck, small stores that can barely draw eight people on a Sunday get swarmed with pros and SCG premium writers when they offer real prizes (Duals, FoW, etc).
Unfortunately, 384 players in Yokohama could possibly be 75% of all active Legacy players in Japan (there was likely a large international component, but you can't really give credit to the go-to-every-tournament-guys for having a healthy, sustainable meta).
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Decks:
Legacy: RWBG Goblins RRR Burn WBU Affinity UBR Sac-Land Tendrils! BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
@Hagalaz
Most people confuse big tournaments/pro events with fan-based magic. I totally understand that SCG and others have made you think that Magic is all about invitationals, GPtop8s and stuff. Well it is not and usually big events follow fan based trend. They may take a while to adapt, but thats how things work. Thats what happened to legacy (where Madrid transferred the european trend to the USA) and thats what happened to Extended when fans abandoned the boat long before Wizards realized it. What I'm trying to say is that the fan-base trend is changing and with that eventually big events will reschedule if Wizards doesn't do something.
So Legacy attendance at big events such as SCG, BoM, etc. are on the upswing, and you've been provided irrefutable statistical evidence there, but let's ignore that. Legacy attendance at my local game stores in the Seattle area are also on the upswing, both in terms of frequency and number of players per event. But I should be worried because "fan based trend" (LOL) is against us.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm bummed out that a bunch of people I'll never meet will no longer be playing Legacy with me.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Yes, legacy is very much dying, so unload all your staples on me for cheap
Legacy is as healthy as I have seen it in my area. I'm just going to enjoy it until I can't anymore, which will be a very sad day for me, and magic in general.
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Legacy Decks UBG Reanimator RUB Delver R Burn UR Delver UBW Tin Fins UBGR ANT
Not every locale is going to react the same. In some places it's dying. In other places it's expanding. This is very much a function of the communities involvement with its "fan-favored" formats.
Both players and stores have equal benefit from building up the community from the ground up. Standard is de facto constructed format; it won't need help to bring people into the store. Like-wise Drafting. EDH has organic growth not tied to tournament offerings; and is ill-suited for tournament play.
If the Legacy offerings in your area are being jeopardized; talk to the store keeps. Try to setup some events, get the word out, and generally reach out to the people who make these tournaments a success. Without the good communication between player/stores, the scene will atrophy.
EDIT: Big events (SCG, BOM, Legacy GP, Trials, and other prize tournaments) will naturally draw larger crowds due to the increased competitiveness. This is different from the local events that draw upon the weekly crowd.
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Twitter - @MTGKoby | MODO - Koby 5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
As said before, LGSes have a very different take than Legacy's national/global health. Same is true for any format. For example, since I moved here (about 6 years ago), we haven't been able to get Standard going. We tried hosting it on different days of the week, excessive payout (there was a point where the store owner was paying out 125%), etc, and we were able to attract some people for a while, but in the end, it didn't pan out and the players weren't interested. We've tried Modern in the same way.
Legacy, on the other hand, has been working out quite well. There's a dedicated playerbase which seems to grow with time. The big thing that we see here is that if someone is interested in playing but doesn't have the cards, we all get together to help that person out (after all, even if you only have 2 people with semi-adequate collections, you might be able to put together a half-dozen playable decks). This gives people an opportunity to try out the format without sinking big money in. If they don't like it, then no loss, but if they do, they'll be more likely to invest into it.
This is also only one data point, but at my LGS, they tried to run Modern a few months ago and got literally *two* people to show up. They eventually canceled the event entirely. Legacy on the other hand receives between 16 - 28 players a week and we now have two stores that run weekly events on two different days (with similar turnout).
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
But, hey, I'm bais too. Infallible really had the best point, its kinda impossible to compare who has more people, aside from actual touris. FMNs/stores are much too loose. Comparing those would be a he said she said contest.
So where can we get actual world wide data? Who has it and will they share it with the public? Certainly there has to be a way to determine the growth of a format.
I played up untill 2008 here, then had a 5 years hiatus, now when I played in 2008 we had a thriving vintage and legacy community, we had one of the biggest leagues in center italy which ended in Rome, but still, atleast 20-30 players of vintage and legacy were the standard here.Now I'm one of 2 people admitting I still like vintage and would play it, and we probably have a core group of 4-5 legacy players.I'm not counting the hidden players that may be there but are turned away to not having tournaments or things like that, but the situation is easy to read, in atleast a 100km radius legacy and vintage are dead.
The issue to me is kinda complex, the first point is that modern is easy to get into, and generally appeals younger players.Before someone kills me for that, WAIT UNTILL THE END please. Modern is also more standard-like and definitely shares more of a cardpool of standard than legacy, wotc also admitted that they want to support the format with key reprints, also if you notice, people tend to have power issues in legacy, they feel combo is unfair, they feel the format has too much power in general but especially they feel the format is too quick and "cerebral".
this atleast is the consensus here, and if it were only these points we could still argue that we should still have atleast a legacy scene right? But here comes the deal killers in my zone and I think at large:
Money is the issue.Yeah I went there.
1)Prices, when a competitive deck can go from 1500€ to upwards of 2700€ and maybe more, people will not play in the format in they don't enjoy it and have chances of return of investment(roi)
2) LGS's here don't sell singles because people will buy them online IF they do.Now considering prices + availability we can already see how people constrained for cash would consider modern a lot more, it's just more affordable.
3)Tournaments: they don't bring the same numbers of modern in most places, maybe in the USA with SCG open and such it's different but here it seems a lot harder to bring in profits to keep fueling the tournaments.
Now if you combine all of this it's already easy to see some core flaws:
higher prices means less people buying cards, less people buying means shop have to markup the prices or host less tournaments if there are not enough people, which means that less players will care about the format since they have incentives of playing modern, which is just a cycle downwards spiral.
Now if you add the other issues which are debatable but still exist it goes even worse.
Wotc supports modern, which means I can get decks for a cheaper price, which means more tournies since more players will show up and bring profit to the shops.Also supply is less of an issue since wizard will reprint some if not all cards eventually (I believe they will keep printing to lower the secondary market for ease of access without crashing it, and to sell more of their product), which are all good points.
Then you go to the irrationals which are things like... "modern is less unfair with turn 0-1combos" or "modern is better since it has more aggro and no dumb control ****" or "no retarded decks that won't let me play" these are all things I've directly heard from people, we can all argue if they have a point or not(I think these are just stupid claims but yeah...) and all goes downfall.
You know there's also a bit of perception, here we had 5-10 good players that supported legacy and vintage hardcore, once they quit the few remaining dumped all their legacy cards which now for people means "he's been playing legacy for like 10 years, IT MUST MEAN LEGACY IS DEAD".
I'm sure it won't really die out, it's just an extreme claim, but it's going the vintage/extended way, and unless wizards or the community can invert the trend is just in my opinion, a matter of time.Might take 6 months or 20 years, but I'm kinda thinking that vintage and legacy are agonizing away.
I'm really a nostalgic so I'm saddened...I never enjoyed the standard gameplay and I'm unsure if modern is a good eternal format still, I like that I can play some decks that legacy or vintage would just destroy, but it's a standard-like format which...isn't exactly my idea of magic...
I'll say one last thing: if you really like legacy WORK NOW to stop the trend, I'm personally trying to have unofficial tournies of vintage and legacy even with 60 cards proxies, I know that is extreme, but I hope people will realize the older formats have fun moments to be had and I generally hope to revive a bit the situation.
Also a bit selfish, I can always play in rome which seems to have a huge community but still...
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
Seems good
You got this half-right, which will probably improve your average. Modern is on the rise, but so is Legacy.
This is a problem for Legacy. This is also a problem for Modern. Why the hell would anyone pay $62 for a Thoughtseize when they can get Force of Will instead. Check the price on not just Tarmogoyf ($120), Vendilion Clique ($50), and Dark Confidant ($52), but also junk like Paradise Mantle ($10), Daybreak Coronet ($16), and countless others spiking almost hourly. If a new player can get a Modern deck for $800-1000 or a Legacy one for $1200-1500, then the latter is much more attractive.
To most players in Legacy or Modern, it is implied that Legacy is the superior format with an unfortunate higher cost of entry which prices people out, and Modern is merely the pauper's version which would do well to become a Legacy-lite. However, there are those who would prefer to have a different Modern format that is nothing like Legacy. However, even if that were the case, the formats look nothing alike. You have guys like LandBoySteve who switched from Modern to Legacy precisely because Modern was becoming more like Standard. You have Overextended fans quitting on Modern because of all the sets that got cut out and all the cards getting banned.
Not even close. Modern is not inherently an interactive format with its lack of Force of Will or even Counterspell, Daze, and Wasteland. Most interaction is contrived: either by the DCI banning cards when it gets out of control, or because the top tables used to consist of Jund mirrors all day because it was so overpowered relative to the rest of the format (with no combo decks as in Legacy to keep Jund in check).
That's true. However, Modern prices are still spiking up, probably at a higher rate than even Legacy now. If you want to use this as an indication that Modern is getting more popular, I would certainly say you're correct, but you'd have to concede that increasing prices of Legacy cards indicate the same about the growth of that format. Also, Wizards supported Extended much better than Legacy and check out where that format ended up.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingAlso, Legacy players are aging, so we really don't have as much free time as we'd like. I'd go to many more tournaments if my mom and dad bought me my deck and I didn't have anything to do on the weekends. As it is, most Legacy players can't let their lives revolve around Magic the same way Standard and Modern players can. We can certainly let our internet lives revolve around magic, but unless you're wealthy and committed enough to travel to ALL the SCG Opens, you're bound to have way more tournament opportunities in the lesser formats.
It's also easy to annihilate small Legacy metas beyond repair if you don't all stay friends. If you're too serious about Legacy, you can destroy said metas with your own passion/enthusiasm/dominance.
Legacy:
RWBG Goblins
RRR Burn
WBU Affinity
UBR Sac-Land Tendrils!
BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
Pauper:
RGoblins
URCloudpost
other decks
Goblins.
7 different archetypes represented in Top 8
11 different archetypes in the top 16
1st U/W Countertop - Alex Binek
2nd RUG Delver - Eric Rill
3rd 4-Color Loam - Jeff Hoogland
4th Elf Combo - Riley Curran
5th ANT - Ben Ball
6th Sneak and Show - Dave King
7th RUG Delver - Reed Hartman
8th 12 Post - Dan Neeley
9th U/W Stoneblade - Bernie Wen
10th RUG Delver - Andrew Hurst
11th Sneak and Show - Tom Nelson
12th Punishing Maverick - Josh Weinandy
13th Esper Stoneblade - Justin Uppal
14th Storm - Adam Prosak
15th Reanimator - Todd Anderson
16th U/R Delver - Terrel Boaz
Stoneblade and 'Show and Tell' are represented twice, RUG Delver represented three times.
Healthy diverse format. Seems good.
That is so cool to see something like that. Makes you feel like you can bring almost anything to an event and have a chance to do well, provided you're a decent player and not some scrub like me.
Eh, but I love Legacy anyway.
Yes, seems VERY good my friend.
I inventoried my legacy staples and i have close to $8k at current retail prices, i can probably get between $5-$6.5. Should i sell now and buy back once the prices drop?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
They play Legacy for a reason, because it is powerful format, where most of all the fun cards are legal, I mean, they ban Sensei's Divining Top in Modern... Really ?
Modern is more appealing to Standard players that want to play their good ol' deck (Valakut, Affinity, etc) with some tweek.
If Modern were to be a Legacy-Lite, then we would have a reason to worry about Legacy, but since Modern is so much closer to Standard, Legacy isn't going to die anytime soon for that reason.
The Legacy side event was played by 384 players, that's almost a third of all attendees.
Seems good
Those are very impressive numbers given that it was a side event and not the main feature.
OT, I see you're playing TinFins. What do you think of the deck?
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
In general as well we are not having large events here and yet the legacy base continues to grow. So if anything your "fan-base" seems to be saying it wants more legacy.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
lol
"Let me completely ignore these actual (easy to find) statistics and evidence you've found that completely debunks my entire (not-fact-based) opinion."
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
I think big events will always get turn out from Legacy players. Heck, small stores that can barely draw eight people on a Sunday get swarmed with pros and SCG premium writers when they offer real prizes (Duals, FoW, etc).
Unfortunately, 384 players in Yokohama could possibly be 75% of all active Legacy players in Japan (there was likely a large international component, but you can't really give credit to the go-to-every-tournament-guys for having a healthy, sustainable meta).
Legacy:
RWBG Goblins
RRR Burn
WBU Affinity
UBR Sac-Land Tendrils!
BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
Pauper:
RGoblins
URCloudpost
other decks
Goblins.
So Legacy attendance at big events such as SCG, BoM, etc. are on the upswing, and you've been provided irrefutable statistical evidence there, but let's ignore that. Legacy attendance at my local game stores in the Seattle area are also on the upswing, both in terms of frequency and number of players per event. But I should be worried because "fan based trend" (LOL) is against us.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm bummed out that a bunch of people I'll never meet will no longer be playing Legacy with me.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingLegacy is as healthy as I have seen it in my area. I'm just going to enjoy it until I can't anymore, which will be a very sad day for me, and magic in general.
UBG Reanimator
RUB Delver
R Burn
UR Delver
UBW Tin Fins
UBGR ANT
Both players and stores have equal benefit from building up the community from the ground up. Standard is de facto constructed format; it won't need help to bring people into the store. Like-wise Drafting. EDH has organic growth not tied to tournament offerings; and is ill-suited for tournament play.
If the Legacy offerings in your area are being jeopardized; talk to the store keeps. Try to setup some events, get the word out, and generally reach out to the people who make these tournaments a success. Without the good communication between player/stores, the scene will atrophy.
EDIT: Big events (SCG, BOM, Legacy GP, Trials, and other prize tournaments) will naturally draw larger crowds due to the increased competitiveness. This is different from the local events that draw upon the weekly crowd.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
Legacy, on the other hand, has been working out quite well. There's a dedicated playerbase which seems to grow with time. The big thing that we see here is that if someone is interested in playing but doesn't have the cards, we all get together to help that person out (after all, even if you only have 2 people with semi-adequate collections, you might be able to put together a half-dozen playable decks). This gives people an opportunity to try out the format without sinking big money in. If they don't like it, then no loss, but if they do, they'll be more likely to invest into it.
My $.02 on the local argument.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.