As long as Griselbrand is legal, I don't see why Yawgmoth's Bargain needs to be banned. Griselbrand easier to get into play, plus a 7/7 flying lifelink creature. If Bargain were unbanned, I can't see why anyone would choose to play it over Griselbrand. The demon is just better all around, at least Bargain has a drawback of skipping your draw step. Necropotence has considerably more drawbacks than Griselbrand, skip your draw step, any card you discard is exiled, and you don't even get the cards until the beginning of your next end step. What's Griselbrand's drawback? An 8 CMC that you aren't going to pay anyway? U and 2 is much easier casting cost than trip black. Here's my vote to unban Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargin in legacy. I can't believe we're even having this conversation.
On another note, is anyone still frightened by a turn one black vise? That seems irrelevant when staring down a turn one Griselbrand. What's the worst that could happen?
Yawgmoth's Bargain is strictly better than Griselbrand as it allows you to choose how many cards you wish to draw off it, Bargain is also castable more resilient to Stifle and makes Storm combo much stronger (would you rather play Ad Nauseum or Bargain?)
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As long as Griselbrand is legal, I don't see why Yawgmoth's Bargain needs to be banned. Griselbrand easier to get into play, plus a 7/7 flying lifelink creature. If Bargain were unbanned, I can't see why anyone would choose to play it over Griselbrand. The demon is just better all around, at least Bargain has a drawback of skipping your draw step. Necropotence has considerably more drawbacks than Griselbrand, skip your draw step, any card you discard is exiled, and you don't even get the cards until the beginning of your next end step. What's Griselbrand's drawback? An 8 CMC that you aren't going to pay anyway? U and 2 is much easier casting cost than trip black. Here's my vote to unban Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargin in legacy. I can't believe we're even having this conversation.
On another note, is anyone still frightened by a turn one black vise? That seems irrelevant when staring down a turn one Griselbrand. What's the worst that could happen?
Bargain is both hardcastable and paying 1 life for 1 card is SO MUCH BETTER than 7 life for 7 cards.
@ people who are saying Show and Tell + Omniscience is broken:
What does your deck do without Show and Tell though?
If you think you are putting this in a Sneak and Show deck, what are you cutting? No matter what you cut, you are losing something vital to the deck.
If you are just becoming a Show and Tell deck, then imo your deck is just so much weaker because without Show and Tell you literally do nothing. Sneak Attack adds redundancy, and a different angle of attack that makes the deck harder to beat. You are either cutting fatties, Sneak Attack, or protection, and none of that is something I would be willing to cut.
But bargain is more expensive than AN. Its use for storm combo, without snt, is probably the most dangerous problem, but it still requires lots of mana.
Either way, it's not strictly superior. Griselbrand has no vulnerability to krosan grip and works well with reanimator and sneak attack. Bargain does no such thing. Griselbrand also does not require your deck to run a reliable win con if you can draw 14+ cards, as he is one himself and the cards you automatically run along him (emrakul) are enough.
Bargain is 1 more mana in a storm deck, but enables the deck as much card draw as they want with no worries of their life total dropping dangerously low
Griselbrand is a body that can removed itis also much more vulnerable to Stifle effects, where Bargain is an Enchantment that as you said needs a Split Second effect to remove, I agree it is easier to cheat Griselbrand into play, but at 4BB Bargain is castable.
Sure you can go ahead and draw 14 cards with him, I would rather draw 8 and only lose 8 life to win then lose 14 life and go into Lightning Bolt range, the point is Bargain turns your life into cards as a 1 for 1 where Griselbrand forces you to draw in multiples of 7
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You also don't gain 7 life every time you swing into your opponent with Yawgmoth's Bargain. Obviously if Griselbrand said pay one life draw a card, it would be banned already. The 7/7 flying lifelink body attached to a multiples of 7 version of Bargain is what makes it better than just a Yawgmoth's Bargain. He is a win condition. Maybe 4BB is castable, but it still isn't a one black reanimate, or an activation of sneak attack.
They could have even tacked on something like "activate this only at sorcery speed" or "only once per turn" but as the card is printed, it's more broken than Bargain.
I see no one arguing that Necropotence is better than Griselbrand. How about Black Vise? Is that card really more of a threat to anyone than Griselbrand?
With 14 cards, what's stopping you from countering the bolt or whatever is used to remove him?
It's a disadvantage, but it's not really that big of a deal. Few decks are capable of playing around it. The only serious way is keeping him from getting into play or shutting down his ability, which is just the same for bargain.
Bargain is better than Ad Nauseam, but it's not like a good build often fizzles when it succeeds in resolving the card anyway.
This is very true
How I summarize the Bargain Vs Griselband:
Which is easier to cheat into play?: Griselbrand
Easier to remove?: Griselbrand
Generates better Card Advantage?: Bargain
Wins the game?: Both, I will give it to Griselbrand as he can win you the game as a 7/7 lifelink fatty
Castable?: Bargain
Less drawback?: Both, this one is hard as Griselbrand's only drawback is drawing in increments of 7 and being a creature, while Bargain is an enchantment and makes you skip your draw step
Really which one is better depends on the deck for SnT Griselbrand is better as you get Sneak Attack in play and then win that turn
You also don't gain 7 life every time you swing into your opponent with Yawgmoth's Bargain. Obviously if Griselbrand said pay one life draw a card, it would be banned already. The 7/7 flying lifelink body attached to a multiples of 7 version of Bargain is what makes it better than just a Yawgmoth's Bargain. He is a win condition. Maybe 4BB is castable, but it still isn't a one black reanimate, or an activation of sneak attack.
They could have even tacked on something like "activate this only at sorcery speed" or "only once per turn" but as the card is printed, it's more broken than Bargain.
I see no one arguing that Necropotence is better than Griselbrand. How about Black Vise? Is that card really more of a threat to anyone than Griselbrand?
This is why I argue Griselbrand is easier to cheat into play, but worst than Bargain, usually when Griselbrand hits the field your life total is less than 14 and that makes his pay 7 draw 7 worst when all your looking for is a counterspell or Emrakul, where Bargain you may find it in the first 2 cards
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Bargain is only better in a list that is built for it specifically and not anything else, and toe to toe a bargain deck vs a grizzlebee deck is really just going to be who resolves first.
This argument that yaws bargain is some stupid broken card in storm is dumb. In current incarnations of storm I still think I would ALWAYS pick the ad naus build. 1 mana less is a big deal when you consider 2 rituals gets you one and not the other. Bargain lets you play FOW but current Ad Naus builds wouldn't even need that because they have access to duress and if they really want pact of negation which is strictly better if your going to win on the spot (you are.)
Bargian really is only better in decks that also cheat it into play, which require show and tell. Show and Tell is once again the problem.
Necro is another beast altogether, because it functions very differently and is not directly comparable, but 3 mana that can be gained off dark ritual is light years away from 5 and 6 and 8. I almost would love to see it off the list one day because it is a card that has crazy drawbacks, but at the same time i can understand the trepidation with that card and there are other cards to come off the list first.
Drawing one card at a time is nuts with lion's eye diamond I hear. I've played storm combo for years, and I can tell you that bargain is leagues ahead of griselbrand in that deck. And everyone thinks that krosan grip is the answer of choice to bargain? That implies that you have 2G open when I resolve or cheat a bargain into play, which is very unrealistic in legacy. What happens if I get a bargain on turn 2 before you have 2G? I win. Let's say I get bargain down on turn 4 but prior to that I cast a silence or I duress you. Krosan grip isn't doing anything then. My point is, krosan grip doesn't make bargain a fair card as it won't reliably answer it every single game since the combo player plays protection spells (What combo decks play protection? I never would have guessed.)
Even if omniscience is proven to be bad in a traditional sneak and show deck, I firmly believe that that card is powerful enough to warrant a brand new deck to be built around it. That card has "Abuse me" written all over it. Casting spells for free for the rest of the game for 2U is quite unfair. I could see it in some esper shell for cabal therapy + academy rector as well as other black protection like thoughtseize, duress, and kill spells.
Necropotence has been beaten to death. Really, is there anything remotely fair about that card? The only fair thing about necro is the triple black casting cost, but even in legacy that isn't much of a drawback at all. Turn 1 necropotence, draw 10 cards, pass, isn't remotely fair. The joke is that a 3 card hand of swamp, dark ritual, and necropotence is unbeatable in legacy barring a force of will from the opponent as the necro player then gets to draw cards at the steep cost of paying life, which isn't a steep cost at all. If necro is unbanned, have fun playing the mirror match every round as that's what legacy would become and one deck formats aren't considered healthy in fact there's nothing worse than a 1 deck format.
Hermit druid is a one card combo. Cool story about one card combos that win you the game. They're banned.
@Mad Hat: Who said you have 14 cards in hand when they bolt you? I think a competent player would bolt you in response to the second draw 7, forcing you to have drawn an answer in the first 7. Of course I'm assuming both players are playing optimally in such a situation, but if 2 griselbrand activations were on the stack at the same time I think bolt would do the job just fine. Or how about a scenario against canadian thresh, stifle + bolt will very likely kill a griselbrand player.
Also, if griselbrand is connecting you're already winning that game as you untapped with griselbrand barring sneak attack. Having untapped with bargain in play in vintage, I can safely say that if you untap with bargain in play you're either winning that game or you're losing it next turn when your opponent swings.
Also, griselbrand is hardly identical to bargain as has already been proven. 4BBBB is not 4BB. Creature's aren't enchantments. 7 life in bursts is different in comparison to 1 life at a time. The differences between the two cards couldn't be bigger.
Also proto, bargain decks don't have access to duress but ad nauseam decks do? This makes no sense to me. Bargain is played in black/x decks, so you can easily play duress or silence for that matter on the splash.
Hermit Druid reads "At the begining of your upkeep, you win the game"
As for necro... doesn't the OP specifically cite that as a card where discussion of it being unbanned will be treated as spam?
Also, the following quote is relevant:
Quote from Bread Connoisseur »
No good will come of talking about necropotence, as the entire DCI would have to be hit by a train before they unbanned necropotence in legacy.
EDIT: Speaking as someone who has beaten Gristel multiple times due to the epic combo of Stifle+Lightning Bolt, there is a world of difference between Bargain and Gristel.
Also, to whoever mentioned enchantment removal... is that a joke? You think enchantments are easier to kill than creatures?
Drawing one card at a time is nuts with lion's eye diamond I hear. I've played storm combo for years, and I can tell you that bargain is leagues ahead of griselbrand in that deck. And everyone thinks that krosan grip is the answer of choice to bargain? That implies that you have 2G open when I resolve or cheat a bargain into play, which is very unrealistic in legacy. What happens if I get a bargain on turn 2 before you have 2G? I win. Let's say I get bargain down on turn 4 but prior to that I cast a silence or I duress you. Krosan grip isn't doing anything then. My point is, krosan grip doesn't make bargain a fair card as it won't reliably answer it every single game since the combo player plays protection spells (What combo decks play protection? I never would have guessed.)
Even if omniscience is proven to be bad in a traditional sneak and show deck, I firmly believe that that card is powerful enough to warrant a brand new deck to be built around it. That card has "Abuse me" written all over it. Casting spells for free for the rest of the game for 2U is quite unfair. I could see it in some esper shell for cabal therapy + academy rector as well as other black protection like thoughtseize, duress, and kill spells.
Necropotence has been beaten to death. Really, is there anything remotely fair about that card? The only fair thing about necro is the triple black casting cost, but even in legacy that isn't much of a drawback at all. Turn 1 necropotence, draw 10 cards, pass, isn't remotely fair. The joke is that a 3 card hand of swamp, dark ritual, and necropotence is unbeatable in legacy barring a force of will from the opponent as the necro player then gets to draw cards at the steep cost of paying life, which isn't a steep cost at all. If necro is unbanned, have fun playing the mirror match every round as that's what legacy would become and one deck formats aren't considered healthy in fact there's nothing worse than a 1 deck format.
Hermit druid is a one card combo. Cool story about one card combos that win you the game. They're banned.
@Mad Hat: Who said you have 14 cards in hand when they bolt you? I think a competent player would bolt you in response to the second draw 7, forcing you to have drawn an answer in the first 7. Of course I'm assuming both players are playing optimally in such a situation, but if 2 griselbrand activations were on the stack at the same time I think bolt would do the job just fine. Or how about a scenario against canadian thresh, stifle + bolt will very likely kill a griselbrand player.
Also, if griselbrand is connecting you're already winning that game as you untapped with griselbrand barring sneak attack. Having untapped with bargain in play in vintage, I can safely say that if you untap with bargain in play you're either winning that game or you're losing it next turn when your opponent swings.
Also, griselbrand is hardly identical to bargain as has already been proven. 4BBBB is not 4BB. Creature's aren't enchantments. 7 life in bursts is different in comparison to 1 life at a time. The differences between the two cards couldn't be bigger.
My thoughts exactly
I am pretty sure if you cast Necropotence turn 1 unless your opponent has some way to remove it or prevent it from resolving then you have effectively won the game
Hermit Druid isn't a one card combo, you still somehow have to get the card into play before you win
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If they ban show and tell, it will close the door to other cards, the meta will loose diversity and Maverick will rip the format.
No it won't even if Show And Tell is banned, Maverick still has a hard time dealing with other combos (like Reanimator) and other Aggro decks (like RUG Delver)
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No it won't even if Show And Tell is banned, Maverick still has a hard time dealing with other combos (like Reanimator) and other Aggro decks (like RUG Delver)
You have the second bit backwards. RUG Delver has trouble with Maverick. But Maverick is kept in check by Reanimator, and also decks like Burn and Affinity.
Sooo... Mind Twist. Anyone thing this card would be fine to unban? I guess the worry is that you play sol lands and Dark Ritual and cast it for like x=4 on turn 3?
Enchantment removal might not be as prevalent as creature removal, but how is it any harder to cast Nature's Claim than it is to cast StP?
Also, as I've stated before I think Mind Twist would be ok to unban. With Dark Rit on the first turn its equivalent to Hymn, obviously there is the possibility that it can get worse later in the game but most decks have the ability to play out most of their significant spells early or cast their instants in response. If it was an instant I think it's be a heck-of-alot more powerful.
You have the second bit backwards. RUG Delver has trouble with Maverick. But Maverick is kept in check by Reanimator, and also decks like Burn and Affinity.
You are correct I meant U/R Burn Delver, but I believe that match up is closer to 50/50
Sooo... Mind Twist. Anyone thing this card would be fine to unban? I guess the worry is that you play sol lands and Dark Ritual and cast it for like x=4 on turn 3?
Am I right about the fear? Honestly, that doesn't sound too scary. With a more consistent mana base (not to mention deck) and more sideboard options you can run Liliana + Hymn + Cabal and also have an aggro backup with SFM and Lingering Souls.
EDIT: Sorry about my double posting. My computer just decided to show the posts in a different order... when I wrote this one my previous was above Fizzler's
Am I right about the fear? Honestly, that doesn't sound too scary. With a more consistent mana base (not to mention deck) and more sideboard options you can run Liliana + Hymn + Cabal and also have an aggro backup with SFM and Lingering Souls.
EDIT: Sorry about my double posting. My computer just decided to show the posts in a different order... when I wrote this one my previous was above Fizzler's
Currently there is a lot of discard in the format and there is an XBB discard spell that is unplayed, so I think Mind Twist would be fine as people do prefer controlling what their opponent discards (with Therapy or Inquisition) as opposed to random discarding, granted Hymn is an amazing card, but I can see Mind Twist mainly in Storm as extra protection
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Currently there is a lot of discard in the format and there is an XBB discard spell that is unplayed, so I think Mind Twist would be fine as people do prefer controlling what their opponent discards (with Therapy or Inquisition) as opposed to random discarding, granted Hymn is an amazing card, but I can see Mind Twist mainly in Storm as extra protection
I don't really see Storm having the mana to cast it. And it's completely outclasses by Silence in that regard.
Both, black vise and mind twist would make mud a big smile and both when resolved your chance to win the game increase drastically to the point your opponent dont wanna play legacy again because is unfair and unfunny..
:D:tongue:
mins twist>black vise>tarmogoyf>show and tell
Uhhh... care to explain how this is the case in any way shape or form, or do you enjoy making apparently troll statements?
Both, black vise and mind twist would make mud a big smile and both when resolved your chance to win the game increase drastically to the point your opponent dont wanna play legacy again because is unfair and unfunny..
:D:tongue:
mins twist>black vise>tarmogoyf>show and tell
Oh wait a moment while I resolve jace, the mind sculptor. When I resolve jace, the mind sculptor I typically win the game. Whereas a 4 cost mind twist isn't even guaranteed to win the game, heck it might not do anything while a goyf continues to bash your face in or a delver or any number of things as discard does NOTHING to affect the board, because discard, by nature, is pretty bad. It's only good in combo decks really because combo decks typically care about cards in hand like force of will. Mind twist is perfectly fine to unban, it's been fine for years and years same as land tax. Heck, I'd rather be casting entomb versus mind twist. One is a instant speed demonic tutor for B. The other is a sorcery speed do nothing in the first couple of turns. And is entomb legal? Yes. Entomb is leagues ahead of mind twist in terms of playability and is legacy legal.
Also love how you think goyf is better than show and tell. I'll give you a hint. I'm probably never going to cast a goyf in legacy again, while I wouldn't mind casting show and tell currently. Why? Because one is leagues ahead of the other in terms of power level. Goyf is a victim of powercreep, as in he's a fair card.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Now that goblins and other tribal decks have cavern of souls, would it be so bad to unban black vise, mystical tutor, and mental misstep? Already brought back the land tax, and misstep won't ruin goblins anymore, so let's give it some real targets.
Now that goblins and other tribal decks have cavern of souls, would it be so bad to unban black vise, mystical tutor, and mental misstep? Already brought back the land tax, and misstep won't ruin goblins anymore, so let's give it some real targets.
The same issue would arise, a majority of decks would be running Mental Misstep. Then people would clamor that it's misstep vs. anti-mistep meta.
Oh wait a moment while I resolve jace, the mind sculptor. When I resolve jace, the mind sculptor I typically win the game. Whereas a 4 cost mind twist isn't even guaranteed to win the game, heck it might not do anything while a goyf continues to bash your face in or a delver or any number of things as discard does NOTHING to affect the board, because discard, by nature, is pretty bad. It's only good in combo decks really because combo decks typically care about cards in hand like force of will. Mind twist is perfectly fine to unban, it's been fine for years and years same as land tax. Heck, I'd rather be casting entomb versus mind twist. One is a instant speed demonic tutor for B. The other is a sorcery speed do nothing in the first couple of turns. And is entomb legal? Yes. Entomb is leagues ahead of mind twist in terms of playability and is legacy legal.
Also love how you think goyf is better than show and tell. I'll give you a hint. I'm probably never going to cast a goyf in legacy again, while I wouldn't mind casting show and tell currently. Why? Because one is leagues ahead of the other in terms of power level. Goyf is a victim of powercreep, as in he's a fair card.
Ok but what does Entomb have anything to do with Mind Twist? And it's not an instant speed demonic tutor for B. That would be Demonic Consultation.
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Yawgmoth's Bargain is strictly better than Griselbrand as it allows you to choose how many cards you wish to draw off it, Bargain is also castable more resilient to Stifle and makes Storm combo much stronger (would you rather play Ad Nauseum or Bargain?)
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Bargain is both hardcastable and paying 1 life for 1 card is SO MUCH BETTER than 7 life for 7 cards.
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What does your deck do without Show and Tell though?
If you think you are putting this in a Sneak and Show deck, what are you cutting? No matter what you cut, you are losing something vital to the deck.
If you are just becoming a Show and Tell deck, then imo your deck is just so much weaker because without Show and Tell you literally do nothing. Sneak Attack adds redundancy, and a different angle of attack that makes the deck harder to beat. You are either cutting fatties, Sneak Attack, or protection, and none of that is something I would be willing to cut.
Bargain is 1 more mana in a storm deck, but enables the deck as much card draw as they want with no worries of their life total dropping dangerously low
Griselbrand is a body that can removed itis also much more vulnerable to Stifle effects, where Bargain is an Enchantment that as you said needs a Split Second effect to remove, I agree it is easier to cheat Griselbrand into play, but at 4BB Bargain is castable.
Sure you can go ahead and draw 14 cards with him, I would rather draw 8 and only lose 8 life to win then lose 14 life and go into Lightning Bolt range, the point is Bargain turns your life into cards as a 1 for 1 where Griselbrand forces you to draw in multiples of 7
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They could have even tacked on something like "activate this only at sorcery speed" or "only once per turn" but as the card is printed, it's more broken than Bargain.
I see no one arguing that Necropotence is better than Griselbrand. How about Black Vise? Is that card really more of a threat to anyone than Griselbrand?
This is very true
How I summarize the Bargain Vs Griselband:
Which is easier to cheat into play?: Griselbrand
Easier to remove?: Griselbrand
Generates better Card Advantage?: Bargain
Wins the game?: Both, I will give it to Griselbrand as he can win you the game as a 7/7 lifelink fatty
Castable?: Bargain
Less drawback?: Both, this one is hard as Griselbrand's only drawback is drawing in increments of 7 and being a creature, while Bargain is an enchantment and makes you skip your draw step
Really which one is better depends on the deck for SnT Griselbrand is better as you get Sneak Attack in play and then win that turn
IMO Bargain is better
This is why I argue Griselbrand is easier to cheat into play, but worst than Bargain, usually when Griselbrand hits the field your life total is less than 14 and that makes his pay 7 draw 7 worst when all your looking for is a counterspell or Emrakul, where Bargain you may find it in the first 2 cards
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This argument that yaws bargain is some stupid broken card in storm is dumb. In current incarnations of storm I still think I would ALWAYS pick the ad naus build. 1 mana less is a big deal when you consider 2 rituals gets you one and not the other. Bargain lets you play FOW but current Ad Naus builds wouldn't even need that because they have access to duress and if they really want pact of negation which is strictly better if your going to win on the spot (you are.)
Bargian really is only better in decks that also cheat it into play, which require show and tell. Show and Tell is once again the problem.
Necro is another beast altogether, because it functions very differently and is not directly comparable, but 3 mana that can be gained off dark ritual is light years away from 5 and 6 and 8. I almost would love to see it off the list one day because it is a card that has crazy drawbacks, but at the same time i can understand the trepidation with that card and there are other cards to come off the list first.
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Even if omniscience is proven to be bad in a traditional sneak and show deck, I firmly believe that that card is powerful enough to warrant a brand new deck to be built around it. That card has "Abuse me" written all over it. Casting spells for free for the rest of the game for 2U is quite unfair. I could see it in some esper shell for cabal therapy + academy rector as well as other black protection like thoughtseize, duress, and kill spells.
Necropotence has been beaten to death. Really, is there anything remotely fair about that card? The only fair thing about necro is the triple black casting cost, but even in legacy that isn't much of a drawback at all. Turn 1 necropotence, draw 10 cards, pass, isn't remotely fair. The joke is that a 3 card hand of swamp, dark ritual, and necropotence is unbeatable in legacy barring a force of will from the opponent as the necro player then gets to draw cards at the steep cost of paying life, which isn't a steep cost at all. If necro is unbanned, have fun playing the mirror match every round as that's what legacy would become and one deck formats aren't considered healthy in fact there's nothing worse than a 1 deck format.
Hermit druid is a one card combo. Cool story about one card combos that win you the game. They're banned.
@Mad Hat: Who said you have 14 cards in hand when they bolt you? I think a competent player would bolt you in response to the second draw 7, forcing you to have drawn an answer in the first 7. Of course I'm assuming both players are playing optimally in such a situation, but if 2 griselbrand activations were on the stack at the same time I think bolt would do the job just fine. Or how about a scenario against canadian thresh, stifle + bolt will very likely kill a griselbrand player.
Also, if griselbrand is connecting you're already winning that game as you untapped with griselbrand barring sneak attack. Having untapped with bargain in play in vintage, I can safely say that if you untap with bargain in play you're either winning that game or you're losing it next turn when your opponent swings.
Also, griselbrand is hardly identical to bargain as has already been proven. 4BBBB is not 4BB. Creature's aren't enchantments. 7 life in bursts is different in comparison to 1 life at a time. The differences between the two cards couldn't be bigger.
Also proto, bargain decks don't have access to duress but ad nauseam decks do? This makes no sense to me. Bargain is played in black/x decks, so you can easily play duress or silence for that matter on the splash.
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As for necro... doesn't the OP specifically cite that as a card where discussion of it being unbanned will be treated as spam?
Also, the following quote is relevant:
EDIT: Speaking as someone who has beaten Gristel multiple times due to the epic combo of Stifle+Lightning Bolt, there is a world of difference between Bargain and Gristel.
Also, to whoever mentioned enchantment removal... is that a joke? You think enchantments are easier to kill than creatures?
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BGR Punishing Nic Fit
My thoughts exactly
I am pretty sure if you cast Necropotence turn 1 unless your opponent has some way to remove it or prevent it from resolving then you have effectively won the game
Hermit Druid isn't a one card combo, you still somehow have to get the card into play before you win
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
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Hermit Druid Combo:
No it won't even if Show And Tell is banned, Maverick still has a hard time dealing with other combos (like Reanimator) and other Aggro decks (like RUG Delver)
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
You have the second bit backwards. RUG Delver has trouble with Maverick. But Maverick is kept in check by Reanimator, and also decks like Burn and Affinity.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Also, as I've stated before I think Mind Twist would be ok to unban. With Dark Rit on the first turn its equivalent to Hymn, obviously there is the possibility that it can get worse later in the game but most decks have the ability to play out most of their significant spells early or cast their instants in response. If it was an instant I think it's be a heck-of-alot more powerful.
You are correct I meant U/R Burn Delver, but I believe that match up is closer to 50/50
I think it is fine to unban
because StP is mainboarded as opposed to Nature's Claim on SB
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Because only scrubs play green?
Besides that, Gristel can also be bounced a la Karakas or Unsummon effects.
Am I right about the fear? Honestly, that doesn't sound too scary. With a more consistent mana base (not to mention deck) and more sideboard options you can run Liliana + Hymn + Cabal and also have an aggro backup with SFM and Lingering Souls.
EDIT: Sorry about my double posting. My computer just decided to show the posts in a different order... when I wrote this one my previous was above Fizzler's
Merged. We cool.
-Warden
^^ Oh goodie
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Currently there is a lot of discard in the format and there is an XBB discard spell that is unplayed, so I think Mind Twist would be fine as people do prefer controlling what their opponent discards (with Therapy or Inquisition) as opposed to random discarding, granted Hymn is an amazing card, but I can see Mind Twist mainly in Storm as extra protection
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I don't really see Storm having the mana to cast it. And it's completely outclasses by Silence in that regard.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Lol. I feel the same way. But it's not like the option isn't there.
Uhhh... care to explain how this is the case in any way shape or form, or do you enjoy making apparently troll statements?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Oh wait a moment while I resolve jace, the mind sculptor. When I resolve jace, the mind sculptor I typically win the game. Whereas a 4 cost mind twist isn't even guaranteed to win the game, heck it might not do anything while a goyf continues to bash your face in or a delver or any number of things as discard does NOTHING to affect the board, because discard, by nature, is pretty bad. It's only good in combo decks really because combo decks typically care about cards in hand like force of will. Mind twist is perfectly fine to unban, it's been fine for years and years same as land tax. Heck, I'd rather be casting entomb versus mind twist. One is a instant speed demonic tutor for B. The other is a sorcery speed do nothing in the first couple of turns. And is entomb legal? Yes. Entomb is leagues ahead of mind twist in terms of playability and is legacy legal.
Also love how you think goyf is better than show and tell. I'll give you a hint. I'm probably never going to cast a goyf in legacy again, while I wouldn't mind casting show and tell currently. Why? Because one is leagues ahead of the other in terms of power level. Goyf is a victim of powercreep, as in he's a fair card.
Currently Playing:
Retired
The same issue would arise, a majority of decks would be running Mental Misstep. Then people would clamor that it's misstep vs. anti-mistep meta.
This
Misstep reads: Pay 2 Life to have a card that shuts down many cards in the metagame
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Ok but what does Entomb have anything to do with Mind Twist? And it's not an instant speed demonic tutor for B. That would be Demonic Consultation.