Does anyone else LIKE the higher cost of legacy cards? Not gonna lie, I kinda enjoy that there is a price barrier to the format because I feel like it pairs me up with other people that I am more likely to enjoy socializing with. I mostly stopped going to type 2 and FNM events because half the crowd would be either lacking hygiene or young and often rude. However at legacy tournaments that subsection of players is much less present in my area. The other players tend to be responsible people with careers that still enjoy the hobby. They take the game seriously (cause who wants to spend $2000 to troll) but still have fun and understand sportsmanlike conduct.
Sorry if I sound really elite in this post. It isn't that I don't want the format to grow, but I do like that the price range of it tends to promote a more "adult" community.
I had not really ever thought about it like this but I do enjoy those perks of the legacy community.
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Many legacy players are a funny lot. They want their format to thrive, but only with them on top. Reprinting cards not only makes their cards "lose value" but also allows for more competition. Legacy is fast reaching a point where WotC and the players will have to decide between reprints of solid staple cards or the death of the format.
I don't really see how the format can be in such a bad state when it's so popular that card prices have been steadily rising for several years. Until a stagnation point in interest (and thus prices) is reached; there is no fear of the format readily dying out.
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I don't really see how the format can be in such a bad state when it's so popular that card prices have been steadily rising for several years. Until a stagnation point in interest (and thus prices) is reached; there is no fear of the format readily dying out.
The cards have been rising because of the Star City tournaments. Brilliant thing, those tournaments... Star City is the company that sets the secondary market prices, and they found a way to move product and jack up the price. Good for them.
However, prices rise, and people have a harder time getting in... so citing the rising prices can also be a reason for people NOT to play, rather than an indication of the format's perceived popularity. There's only a finite supply of staple cards, and as they get damaged or people quit playing and mothball their collection instead of selling it off, that pool of cards gets smaller. Even worse, the cards are of a value where many players will scoop them up whenever they can and horde them as "investments" instead of passing on them or trading them to someone else that wants to get involved.
All of this leads to the format stagnating. The prices and lack of reprints will lead to a falling of interest. Legacy players need to decide how far they want their "investments" to go down... a little bit because of reprinting, or a lot because of the format dying.
Bringing in more players keeps the format healthy, it's as simple as that. And the only way to bring in and not only maintain a player base but to get it to grow is to make the staple cards more readily available. Be it allowing proxies with harsh rules (photocopy only, no writing "Underground Sea" on a basic land) or reprinting cards, something will have to be done to ensure the format continues.
Personally, I think once WotC irons out the wrinkles in modern (since crybabies couldn't comprehend "if a deck kills in 4 turns or less something is going to get banned), it'll have another upswing and will eclipse legacy. That is, as long as WotC keeps supporting it with major events. But that's a discussion probably more geared for the modern forum.
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I think that if wizards reprinted Legacy staples in a meaningful enough way to decrease the price of duals by as little as 20% (which would be outrageously difficult to do), they could jump the shark on their own game (after the hysteria dies down).
By doing to, the damn themselves in some combination of the following:
a) advertise the fact known to legacy players that legacy is a superior format to Standard since the cards never rotate and it's just more fun. Most standard player just block it out since they always have a bunch of teenagers to dominate at Wizard's precious little board game called standard, but if Wizards handed them Legacy cards and their buddies started showing off their Legacy decks, they create a bandwagon effect against the game that they advertise.
b) discourage people from buying pack/boxes/cases/shipping crates of magic cards to keep up with standard, but instead to find Legacy staples, which would be more easily obtained on the secondary market.
c) the price of other Legacy staples that weren't reprinted suddenly skyrocket, making both Standard and Legacy kind of lame. The allure of magic would be damaged by the reprints. People will no longer be interested in new releases, but waiting for the next Legacy reprints.
d) New players to the game of Magic might be intimidated by the game if they are introduced directly to Legacy. This is more likely to happen if they create more legacy players. Legacy is for hardcore magic players who understand the game very well. Wizards respects Legacy players and prints them new cards now and then, since most Legacy players bought a large amount of cards years ago before the format existed as it does today. While Wiz wants the game to be as fun as possible, they don't necessarily need more legacy players to keep magic successful.
Either way, it's a huge mixed message to the player base at large, the collectors, and the vendors.
In all likely hood, reprints would not change the high prices of Legacy cards. When SCG started buying up staples and raising prices, they determined that you must pay $X000 to participate in their game, and I don't see the secondary market allowing Dual Lands to go from Wizards to the consumer without a significant mark-up.
Candelabra of Tawnos..... what the hell? it (to the best of my knowledge) only sees play on high tide what warrents it costing nearly 1000 dollars for a set?
Candelabra of Tawnos..... what the hell? it (to the best of my knowledge) only sees play on high tide what warrents it costing nearly 1000 dollars for a set?
You hit the nail on the head, it is played in High Tide.
People want it for that deck so they buy it. Imperial Recruiter isn't widely played either but he costs a fortune.
There probably is a connection between their prices and amount of play by the way.
I just bought my first dual. I like the nostalgic aspect of it in addition to the competitive aspect, but I'm still almost two-hundred dollars from a playset. For only ONE DUAL land. One color combo. Ridiculous.
You hit the nail on the head, it is played in High Tide.
People want it for that deck so they buy it. Imperial Recruiter isn't widely played either but he costs a fortune.
There probably is a connection between their prices and amount of play by the way
True and thanks,
but there are cards that see far more play in way more decks such as Goyf (understandably less because far more packs were opened but it also sees far more play) the duel lands while expensive still dont approach this number apiece to my knowledge (unless you are buying alpha/beta one's in that case ... just go away) and force of will which sees play in a rediculous amount of decks while being an uncommon is still cheaper for a playset. it just sucks cause i wanted to get into legacy and i thought that a mono colored deck would be the best way to this and remain competitive ... (hive mind, high tide) but i guess not.
P.s. If anyone could direct me to a high tide budget thread that would be great i've looked but cant seem to find it.
P.p.s. Candelabra of Tawnos isnt even on the reserved list is there a reason they dont print cards like this and goyf in a "legacy staples kit"(or something) to make the format slightly more accessible and generate income for them?
By now I'm sure Candelabra is far harder to come by than the other Legacy staples to which you compared it. It's more rare, people are less willing to get rid of them if they have them, nostalgia, etc. all play a part in it I'm sure.
Candelabra is on the reserve list.
Candelabra is extremely rare
Compared to this card which was also printed in Antiquities only is only fifty cents. The card is so rare and almost needed to be competitive in High Tide that it drives a very high price. The reason it is more expensive than the Duals is the Duals were printed four times. If the duals were only printed once they would likely command this high price. Ben from SCG estimated that there may only be 250 playsets of CoT in circulation.
One year ago it was a Fifty Dollar card.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Whops, missed in on the reserved list my bad. Thanks for the helpful answers guys Im still semi new to this (started playing about a year ago) and so i dont know the older formats well yet. That explains alot actually although it doesnt make me want to buy them more
EDIT
The price of things like this make me question getting into legacy, not because of a severe budget concern necessarily but because with modern it seems like legacy might start to die off since it is a way more accesible format... Thoughts? thanks.
Whops, missed in on the reserved list my bad. Thanks for the helpful answers guys Im still semi new to this (started playing about a year ago) and so i dont know the older formats well yet. That explains alot actually although it doesnt make me want to buy them more
EDIT
The price of things like this make me question getting into legacy, not because of a severe budget concern necessarily but because with modern it seems like legacy might start to die off since it is a way more accesible format... Thoughts? thanks.
Modern will not kill Legacy. They are different formats and offer a different set of decks. If you're looking for an investment/enjoyaable format, play Legacy. If you don't have the money for Legacy, play a budget legacy deck. Keep in mind that Shocksn'other modern staples will go down when they are reprinted. Legacy stuff won't.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Well that makes me far more inclined to get into legacy thanks for the response. Is there any truth to what ive heard about Scg driving up the price of the format, or would it be better to wait because prices are going to drop (seasonally or something)?
Which format? Legacy? SCG tournaments have driven up the prices of Legacy cards, and to be honest they're only likely to continue rising. I think we are beyond the "wait for prices to drop" theory when it comes to Legacy. If you're looking to get into Legacy, the sooner the better because of this. Modern, on the other hand, is quiet at the moment but is also supposedly about to become PTQ-status, so I think if you're looking to get into Modern, now would be the time before prices for many of the staples skyrocket. Keep in mind, that many of the Modern-legal staples are also staples in Legacy. Cards like Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant, that will see heavy play in Modern and already see heavy play in Legacy, are likely to continue to see their repsective prices increase as Modern becomes a popular format.
Does anyone else LIKE the higher cost of legacy cards? Not gonna lie, I kinda enjoy that there is a price barrier to the format because I feel like it pairs me up with other people that I am more likely to enjoy socializing with. I mostly stopped going to type 2 and FNM events because half the crowd would be either lacking hygiene or young and often rude. However at legacy tournaments that subsection of players is much less present in my area. The other players tend to be responsible people with careers that still enjoy the hobby. They take the game seriously (cause who wants to spend $2000 to troll) but still have fun and understand sportsmanlike conduct.
Sorry if I sound really elite in this post. It isn't that I don't want the format to grow, but I do like that the price range of it tends to promote a more "adult" community.
I'm in the same camp, I like that it is a more expensive format, great crowd, and when I get legacy staples it feels like I am getting something special.
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Standard: Zombies, AntiTusk Vampires, BUG Graveyard, Bant Hexproof, UR Storm Delver Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques) Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Wow, Dougyfresh. All I realy read right there is ``I'm too good to play with people who can't drop 2000 dollars on cardboard because they don't take showers and are poor and are a blight to my eyes.``
Legacy players can think of themselves as elitists, and it's pretty much true, but that kind of thinking is bad ethics...even if the hygiene part is true...:|
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Wow, Dougyfresh. All I realy read right there is ``I'm too good to play with people who can't drop 2000 dollars on cardboard because they don't take showers and are poor and are a blight to my eyes.``
Legacy players can think of themselves as elitists, and it's pretty much true, but that kind of thinking is bad ethics...even if the hygiene part is true...:|
But at the end of the day; legacy players are elite. It takes a different attitude and a certain competitiveness to play legacy that seems minimal or lacking in the "lesser" formats.
Honestly people who don't take showers ARE a blight to my eye[sight].
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Well that makes me far more inclined to get into legacy thanks for the response. Is there any truth to what ive heard about Scg driving up the price of the format, or would it be better to wait because prices are going to drop (seasonally or something)?
The prices are seasonally low right now. Almost every Legacy staple was more expensive at the beginning of 2011.
Right now is the time to buy. Come next spring I can see prices going up again to where FoW is close to 80 a pop and wasteland is pushing 70. Only staple I would try to hold off getting is goyf since it will likely get reprinted to support modern.
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Right now is the time to buy. Come next spring I can see prices going up again to where FoW is close to 80 a pop and wasteland is pushing 70. Only staple I would try to hold off getting is goyf since it will likely get reprinted to support modern.
I'm thinking this holiday season is going to be PRIME buying time. I am waiting to see if the reanimator special release is worth the value in legacy $. Entomb itself is tempting. I agree that goyf will see a reprint down the road and I am assuming (don't take this speculation serious) goyf will come back in 2012. If WotC wants to pump life into modern (don't get me started on how this ruined my 2011 card-investment plan...ugh), you'll need to bring back goyf and hopefully other key cards. I missed out on confidants @ 15 each near my birthday in March. Those becoming 40-50 over night sucks. I don't want that to happen again with other key cards I lack.
Has anyone noticed wasteland can be had for $40 quite redilly. I might just pick up a couple more so I dont have to move them between decks.
StarCity over the past month notified me wastelands were cheap and SP'ed ZEN fetches. I'm wondering if anyone is buying this stuff. The minute duals come down to sub-100 prices, I might take a hit and pickup a bunch of them. While Savannah has climbed steadily, Trop and Tundra have deflated to ~100 (from ~120 mid summer). I'm looking into why this happened.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
StarCity over the past month notified me wastelands were cheap and SP'ed ZEN fetches. I'm wondering if anyone is buying this stuff. The minute duals come down to sub-100 prices, I might take a hit and pickup a bunch of them. While Savannah has climbed steadily, Trop and Tundra have deflated to ~100 (from ~120 mid summer). I'm looking into why this happened.
Not sure why tropical island and tundra have gone down, but savannah rising is most likely from the popularity spike in maverick.
I know it's a pretty lame complaint but I'm having unreasonable trouble locating a set of Flame Rifts and the last Darksteel Citadel I need for my first decks. I feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble finding staple commons... but here we are. My local store doesn't have them, the online shop I use doesn't have them... sigh, I think I'm going to have to make up an indivual order somewhere of 4 flame rift and 1 darksteel citadel...
I'm from Australia, so the number of big US stores that ship for reasonable postage and also have low prices is pretty small. At the moment I'm using Troll and Toad.
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I had not really ever thought about it like this but I do enjoy those perks of the legacy community.
3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
10/30/11 SCG Open Kansas City-18th
3/10/12 SCG Open Dallas-?
I don't really see how the format can be in such a bad state when it's so popular that card prices have been steadily rising for several years. Until a stagnation point in interest (and thus prices) is reached; there is no fear of the format readily dying out.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
The cards have been rising because of the Star City tournaments. Brilliant thing, those tournaments... Star City is the company that sets the secondary market prices, and they found a way to move product and jack up the price. Good for them.
However, prices rise, and people have a harder time getting in... so citing the rising prices can also be a reason for people NOT to play, rather than an indication of the format's perceived popularity. There's only a finite supply of staple cards, and as they get damaged or people quit playing and mothball their collection instead of selling it off, that pool of cards gets smaller. Even worse, the cards are of a value where many players will scoop them up whenever they can and horde them as "investments" instead of passing on them or trading them to someone else that wants to get involved.
All of this leads to the format stagnating. The prices and lack of reprints will lead to a falling of interest. Legacy players need to decide how far they want their "investments" to go down... a little bit because of reprinting, or a lot because of the format dying.
Bringing in more players keeps the format healthy, it's as simple as that. And the only way to bring in and not only maintain a player base but to get it to grow is to make the staple cards more readily available. Be it allowing proxies with harsh rules (photocopy only, no writing "Underground Sea" on a basic land) or reprinting cards, something will have to be done to ensure the format continues.
Personally, I think once WotC irons out the wrinkles in modern (since crybabies couldn't comprehend "if a deck kills in 4 turns or less something is going to get banned), it'll have another upswing and will eclipse legacy. That is, as long as WotC keeps supporting it with major events. But that's a discussion probably more geared for the modern forum.
By doing to, the damn themselves in some combination of the following:
a) advertise the fact known to legacy players that legacy is a superior format to Standard since the cards never rotate and it's just more fun. Most standard player just block it out since they always have a bunch of teenagers to dominate at Wizard's precious little board game called standard, but if Wizards handed them Legacy cards and their buddies started showing off their Legacy decks, they create a bandwagon effect against the game that they advertise.
b) discourage people from buying pack/boxes/cases/shipping crates of magic cards to keep up with standard, but instead to find Legacy staples, which would be more easily obtained on the secondary market.
c) the price of other Legacy staples that weren't reprinted suddenly skyrocket, making both Standard and Legacy kind of lame. The allure of magic would be damaged by the reprints. People will no longer be interested in new releases, but waiting for the next Legacy reprints.
d) New players to the game of Magic might be intimidated by the game if they are introduced directly to Legacy. This is more likely to happen if they create more legacy players. Legacy is for hardcore magic players who understand the game very well. Wizards respects Legacy players and prints them new cards now and then, since most Legacy players bought a large amount of cards years ago before the format existed as it does today. While Wiz wants the game to be as fun as possible, they don't necessarily need more legacy players to keep magic successful.
Either way, it's a huge mixed message to the player base at large, the collectors, and the vendors.
In all likely hood, reprints would not change the high prices of Legacy cards. When SCG started buying up staples and raising prices, they determined that you must pay $X000 to participate in their game, and I don't see the secondary market allowing Dual Lands to go from Wizards to the consumer without a significant mark-up.
Legacy:
RWBG Goblins
RRR Burn
WBU Affinity
UBR Sac-Land Tendrils!
BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
Pauper:
RGoblins
URCloudpost
other decks
Goblins.
You hit the nail on the head, it is played in High Tide.
People want it for that deck so they buy it. Imperial Recruiter isn't widely played either but he costs a fortune.
There probably is a connection between their prices and amount of play by the way.
True and thanks,
but there are cards that see far more play in way more decks such as Goyf (understandably less because far more packs were opened but it also sees far more play) the duel lands while expensive still dont approach this number apiece to my knowledge (unless you are buying alpha/beta one's in that case ... just go away) and force of will which sees play in a rediculous amount of decks while being an uncommon is still cheaper for a playset. it just sucks cause i wanted to get into legacy and i thought that a mono colored deck would be the best way to this and remain competitive ... (hive mind, high tide) but i guess not.
P.s. If anyone could direct me to a high tide budget thread that would be great i've looked but cant seem to find it.
P.p.s. Candelabra of Tawnos isnt even on the reserved list is there a reason they dont print cards like this and goyf in a "legacy staples kit"(or something) to make the format slightly more accessible and generate income for them?
Candelabra is extremely rare
Compared to this card which was also printed in Antiquities only is only fifty cents. The card is so rare and almost needed to be competitive in High Tide that it drives a very high price. The reason it is more expensive than the Duals is the Duals were printed four times. If the duals were only printed once they would likely command this high price. Ben from SCG estimated that there may only be 250 playsets of CoT in circulation.
One year ago it was a Fifty Dollar card.
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EDIT
The price of things like this make me question getting into legacy, not because of a severe budget concern necessarily but because with modern it seems like legacy might start to die off since it is a way more accesible format... Thoughts? thanks.
Modern will not kill Legacy. They are different formats and offer a different set of decks. If you're looking for an investment/enjoyaable format, play Legacy. If you don't have the money for Legacy, play a budget legacy deck. Keep in mind that Shocksn'other modern staples will go down when they are reprinted. Legacy stuff won't.
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I'm in the same camp, I like that it is a more expensive format, great crowd, and when I get legacy staples it feels like I am getting something special.
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Legacy players can think of themselves as elitists, and it's pretty much true, but that kind of thinking is bad ethics...even if the hygiene part is true...:|
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
But at the end of the day; legacy players are elite. It takes a different attitude and a certain competitiveness to play legacy that seems minimal or lacking in the "lesser" formats.
Honestly people who don't take showers ARE a blight to my eye[sight].
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
The prices are seasonally low right now. Almost every Legacy staple was more expensive at the beginning of 2011.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I'm thinking this holiday season is going to be PRIME buying time. I am waiting to see if the reanimator special release is worth the value in legacy $. Entomb itself is tempting. I agree that goyf will see a reprint down the road and I am assuming (don't take this speculation serious) goyf will come back in 2012. If WotC wants to pump life into modern (don't get me started on how this ruined my 2011 card-investment plan...ugh), you'll need to bring back goyf and hopefully other key cards. I missed out on confidants @ 15 each near my birthday in March. Those becoming 40-50 over night sucks. I don't want that to happen again with other key cards I lack.
StarCity over the past month notified me wastelands were cheap and SP'ed ZEN fetches. I'm wondering if anyone is buying this stuff. The minute duals come down to sub-100 prices, I might take a hit and pickup a bunch of them. While Savannah has climbed steadily, Trop and Tundra have deflated to ~100 (from ~120 mid summer). I'm looking into why this happened.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Not sure why tropical island and tundra have gone down, but savannah rising is most likely from the popularity spike in maverick.
I know how you feel though. It took me ages to get a playset of Smash to Smithereens.
| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |