I like how he hedged his statement not once but twice. I wonder how many people who read that statement missed both?
At this point, I don't think Wizards can make much of any other statement really. WotC painted themselves, and Vintage/Legacy, into a corner more than twenty years ago with the Reserved List (yes, that horse). If WotC had any intention at all in growing the formats, then they would've killed the RL or printed more replacement cards that subvert the list.
What can be done though? Unless you have a changing of the guard willing to crack the RL or reprint substitutes (such as true tri-lands to bump dual lands for example), these formats will forever be the unwanted child.
That's better than their attitude the game as a whole since Lorwyn where they've been catering almost 100% to newbs and curbing anything that turns off said newbs.
doesn't really surprise me, there's not much they can do to get more people into the formats at this point. I don't know what they can do (if anything) about the reserve list
.... since Lorwyn where they've been catering almost 100% to newbs and curbing anything that turns off said newbs.
Fair enough.
Since the computer game phenomenon took over, they have no doubt decided that growing the game should be their highest priority, which makes perfect sense given what they're up against. Getting kids to take up an overly expensive card game isn't be an easy task....
EDIT - an online MTG game where I play on any platform (Xbox, PC, playstation etc.) with ANY CARDS should at the top of their priorities I reckon
"At this point"? Their priorities seemed obvious years ago after Modern became a thing. The writing was really on the wall when SCG and GPs switched their events to Standard/Modern and dropped Legacy to a minimal number of events each year.
R2R block was the last time they really made an attempt to throw bones to the Legacy community in a new Standard block. As far as WOTC is concerned, Legacy is like another Casual format and "Eternal" means "Commander".
Well yeah. Two words, reserved list. Nothing to be done about it unless they print stuff that is better then stuff on the list or equal in power, though they can't really make dual lands equal in power to the originals without breaking the functional reprint clause on the list. Not to mention it wouldn't end there, you would have to take every card on the reserved list that is playable in legacy and make different versions equal in power or exceeding the powerlevel of cards on the list like tabernacle, candelabra, intuition, etc. etc. some of these would be easy like a tabernacle that sacrificed instead of destroyed or really break it by allowing it to tap for a colorless mana. Candelabra they could make an enchantment I guess, can't think of anything else or they make it cost zero instead of 1. Intuition is tricky, as making it cost 1U breaks the card in half and 1UU makes it worse. Could say search for up to 3 cards, but that's also insane as you could tutor just 1 card and the opponent is forced to give you that card making it blue demonic tutor for 2U at instant speed with the downside of revealing the card you tutored for.
They could legalize the original Collector's Edition to make the dual lands more affordable and that way make the format more accessible to newer players. Collector's Ed dual lands sell for about $150 each. But as is, Legacy has become too criminally expensive to attract anything than the older hardcore players.
They could legalize the original Collector's Edition to make the dual lands more affordable and that way make the format more accessible to newer players. Collector's Ed dual lands sell for about $150 each. But as is, Legacy has become too criminally expensive to attract anything than the older hardcore players.
I've seen this argument before and all it really does is kick the can down the road. It's also an argument I've seen suggested from people who speculated on the gold borders with the idea that they will eventually become legal. For those speculators and investors there's only one thing worth saying about them and I'd get banned for it.
They could legalize the original Collector's Edition to make the dual lands more affordable and that way make the format more accessible to newer players. Collector's Ed dual lands sell for about $150 each. But as is, Legacy has become too criminally expensive to attract anything than the older hardcore players.
I've seen this argument before and all it really does is kick the can down the road. It's also an argument I've seen suggested from people who speculated on the gold borders with the idea that they will eventually become legal. For those speculators and investors there's only one thing worth saying about them and I'd get banned for it.
The only real problem is the incredibly high price of the dual lands, which can often make a deck's mana pool almost twice as expensive as the rest of the deck. And the fact is that the game still needs to maintain its popularity for those cards to keep rising in value. Taking the dual lands off the reserved list is the only thing the format needs. Cards like Lightning Bolt and Demonic Tutor continue to rise in value anyway, so everybody knows it's all crap. I'm guessing it'll happen at some point in the future once those white borders are impossible to find.
I'd frankly be 200% okay with the value of my duals, forces, and other "staples" taking hits if it meant more people were in the format I loved.
I'll be playing it anyways because it's simply the format I enjoy the most, but I definitely miss the days of people dropping into the old development threads almost on a daily basis, looking for where to get started and how.
I see WoTC's stance towards Legacy very similar to how Nintendo views the competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Scene; indifferent. But 18 years after its release, the game still has a vibrant and huge competitive scene, because the community just didn't care that we didn't have official support. We just played the game and ran our own tournaments and even with the rise of the "eSports"-era that started within the past 3-4 years, there are still community-run events that regularly draw several hundred entrants and international competitors.
Obviously it's not a perfect parallel, as the physical means to play Legacy are a finite resource, whereas the Melee community still gets new controllers and such. But it still just comes down to a question of just playing what you love.
I'd frankly be 200% okay with the value of my duals, forces, and other "staples" taking hits if it meant more people were in the format I loved.
I'll be playing it anyways because it's simply the format I enjoy the most, but I definitely miss the days of people dropping into the old development threads almost on a daily basis, looking for where to get started and how.
I see WoTC's stance towards Legacy very similar to how Nintendo views the competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Scene; indifferent. But 18 years after its release, the game still has a vibrant and huge competitive scene, because the community just didn't care that we didn't have official support. We just played the game and ran our own tournaments and even with the rise of the "eSports"-era that started within the past 3-4 years, there are still community-run events that regularly draw several hundred entrants and international competitors.
Obviously it's not a perfect parallel, as the physical means to play Legacy are a finite resource, whereas the Melee community still gets new controllers and such. But it still just comes down to a question of just playing what you love.
I own a mint Black Lotus, and I wouldn't be remotely worried about the card taking a hit. On the contrary I can only see it rising in value because the game would be far more exposed to millions of casual players who would see why the card is the holy grail of Magic. Legacy is by far the most challenging format the game has to offer. It has insanely powerful decks in the most extensive meta with limitless deck building strategy, and it's pretty straight forward so that it doesn't require proxies. Players don't mind paying up for cards like Wasteland because they usually fit in certain type of decks with very specific trategies. But when it comes to dual lands, 100% of all multicolored decks need them. Without the dual lands, there is no Legacy. I can't think of a reason why WotC wouldn't want to reprint those lands as mythic rares and open the floodgates for millions of younger players who are dying to play the format.
I own a mint Black Lotus, and I wouldn't be remotely worried about the card taking a hit. On the contrary I can only see it rising in value because the game would be far more exposed to millions of casual players who would see why the card is the holy grail of Magic. Legacy is by far the most challenging format the game has to offer. It has insanely powerful decks in the most extensive meta with limitless deck building strategy, and it's pretty straight forward so that it doesn't require proxies. Players don't mind paying up for cards like Wasteland because they usually fit in certain type of decks with very specific trategies. But when it comes to dual lands, 100% of all multicolored decks need them. Without the dual lands, there is no Legacy. I can't think of a reason why WotC wouldn't want to reprint those lands as mythic rares and open the floodgates for millions of younger players who are dying to play the format.
I think you nailed it here. I don't think it's that there's a lack of interest in the format at all; it's just that it's financially, and ultimately physically, inaccessible.
I own a mint Black Lotus, and I wouldn't be remotely worried about the card taking a hit. On the contrary I can only see it rising in value because the game would be far more exposed to millions of casual players who would see why the card is the holy grail of Magic. Legacy is by far the most challenging format the game has to offer. It has insanely powerful decks in the most extensive meta with limitless deck building strategy, and it's pretty straight forward so that it doesn't require proxies. Players don't mind paying up for cards like Wasteland because they usually fit in certain type of decks with very specific trategies. But when it comes to dual lands, 100% of all multicolored decks need them. Without the dual lands, there is no Legacy. I can't think of a reason why WotC wouldn't want to reprint those lands as mythic rares and open the floodgates for millions of younger players who are dying to play the format.
I think you nailed it here. I don't think it's that there's a lack of interest in the format at all; it's just that it's financially, and ultimately physically, inaccessible.
I'm sure the interest is there. But the means to fill that interest, unfortunately, is not.
It also dilutes the overall competition of the game since all you have are a bunch of old rich momma's dudes playing with fancy decks, all who can easily be beaten by any younger player who doesn't have the money to build them. Magic in many ways is like a modern day version of chess. The younger the player the likelier it is for him to make a modest income out of playing tournaments. Now all you see are a bunch of old loserish card collectors trying to manipulate card prices with some bizarre online Magic stock market graph that doesn't say absolutely anything about the card's real value. I'm happy to see my old Alpha Beta collection skyrocket in value, but WotC needs to end this phony charade and allow the younger generations to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to.
I'd frankly be 200% okay with the value of my duals, forces, and other "staples" taking hits if it meant more people were in the format I loved.
I'll be playing it anyways because it's simply the format I enjoy the most, but I definitely miss the days of people dropping into the old development threads almost on a daily basis, looking for where to get started and how.
I see WoTC's stance towards Legacy very similar to how Nintendo views the competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Scene; indifferent. But 18 years after its release, the game still has a vibrant and huge competitive scene, because the community just didn't care that we didn't have official support. We just played the game and ran our own tournaments and even with the rise of the "eSports"-era that started within the past 3-4 years, there are still community-run events that regularly draw several hundred entrants and international competitors.
Obviously it's not a perfect parallel, as the physical means to play Legacy are a finite resource, whereas the Melee community still gets new controllers and such. But it still just comes down to a question of just playing what you love.
I own a mint Black Lotus, and I wouldn't be remotely worried about the card taking a hit. On the contrary I can only see it rising in value because the game would be far more exposed to millions of casual players who would see why the card is the holy grail of Magic. Legacy is by far the most challenging format the game has to offer. It has insanely powerful decks in the most extensive meta with limitless deck building strategy, and it's pretty straight forward so that it doesn't require proxies. Players don't mind paying up for cards like Wasteland because they usually fit in certain type of decks with very specific trategies. But when it comes to dual lands, 100% of all multicolored decks need them. Without the dual lands, there is no Legacy. I can't think of a reason why WotC wouldn't want to reprint those lands as mythic rares and open the floodgates for millions of younger players who are dying to play the format.
I thought about this for a minute. Yes, reprinting duals *could* potentially attract more players to Legacy (if you ONLY reprint the duals, that is). And the more I think about it, the less I think it's viable. The reason for that is that if you reprint the duals (let's exclude the idea that if you're willing to print these, then others will ask why not the rest? eventually) and it does bring new blood into the game, what do you think happens to all the staples that are on the reserve list? They explode in value and make it even LESS accessible. Although it would be sweet to get new card frame duals, it will never resolve the problem of scarcity. Legacy is a format that is doomed at the competitive level. SCG will have their "special events" be legacy and those will be like a sideshow, a "once, we played magic like this" kind of thing. It'll become a bit of a gimmick. Magic has moved on from this 'old man'.
At this point, if you wanna play legacy, you have to rely on your local community or...Japan.
"At this point"? Their priorities seemed obvious years ago after Modern became a thing. The writing was really on the wall when SCG and GPs switched their events to Standard/Modern and dropped Legacy to a minimal number of events each year.
R2R block was the last time they really made an attempt to throw bones to the Legacy community in a new Standard block. As far as WOTC is concerned, Legacy is like another Casual format and "Eternal" means "Commander".
Looks at Narset, T3feri, Oko, Once upon a Time, Veil of summer, Mystical dispute, Karn the great creator, W6, 2019 has probably been the year new expansions have influenced vintage and legacy the most.
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https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/985736004911771648
At this point, I don't think Wizards can make much of any other statement really. WotC painted themselves, and Vintage/Legacy, into a corner more than twenty years ago with the Reserved List (yes, that horse). If WotC had any intention at all in growing the formats, then they would've killed the RL or printed more replacement cards that subvert the list.
What can be done though? Unless you have a changing of the guard willing to crack the RL or reprint substitutes (such as true tri-lands to bump dual lands for example), these formats will forever be the unwanted child.
Yep, thats how I read it.
Spirits
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Fair enough.
Since the computer game phenomenon took over, they have no doubt decided that growing the game should be their highest priority, which makes perfect sense given what they're up against. Getting kids to take up an overly expensive card game isn't be an easy task....
EDIT - an online MTG game where I play on any platform (Xbox, PC, playstation etc.) with ANY CARDS should at the top of their priorities I reckon
R2R block was the last time they really made an attempt to throw bones to the Legacy community in a new Standard block. As far as WOTC is concerned, Legacy is like another Casual format and "Eternal" means "Commander".
Currently Playing:
Retired
I've seen this argument before and all it really does is kick the can down the road. It's also an argument I've seen suggested from people who speculated on the gold borders with the idea that they will eventually become legal. For those speculators and investors there's only one thing worth saying about them and I'd get banned for it.
The only real problem is the incredibly high price of the dual lands, which can often make a deck's mana pool almost twice as expensive as the rest of the deck. And the fact is that the game still needs to maintain its popularity for those cards to keep rising in value. Taking the dual lands off the reserved list is the only thing the format needs. Cards like Lightning Bolt and Demonic Tutor continue to rise in value anyway, so everybody knows it's all crap. I'm guessing it'll happen at some point in the future once those white borders are impossible to find.
I'll be playing it anyways because it's simply the format I enjoy the most, but I definitely miss the days of people dropping into the old development threads almost on a daily basis, looking for where to get started and how.
I see WoTC's stance towards Legacy very similar to how Nintendo views the competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Scene; indifferent. But 18 years after its release, the game still has a vibrant and huge competitive scene, because the community just didn't care that we didn't have official support. We just played the game and ran our own tournaments and even with the rise of the "eSports"-era that started within the past 3-4 years, there are still community-run events that regularly draw several hundred entrants and international competitors.
Obviously it's not a perfect parallel, as the physical means to play Legacy are a finite resource, whereas the Melee community still gets new controllers and such. But it still just comes down to a question of just playing what you love.
UWR Landstill
R Burn
I own a mint Black Lotus, and I wouldn't be remotely worried about the card taking a hit. On the contrary I can only see it rising in value because the game would be far more exposed to millions of casual players who would see why the card is the holy grail of Magic. Legacy is by far the most challenging format the game has to offer. It has insanely powerful decks in the most extensive meta with limitless deck building strategy, and it's pretty straight forward so that it doesn't require proxies. Players don't mind paying up for cards like Wasteland because they usually fit in certain type of decks with very specific trategies. But when it comes to dual lands, 100% of all multicolored decks need them. Without the dual lands, there is no Legacy. I can't think of a reason why WotC wouldn't want to reprint those lands as mythic rares and open the floodgates for millions of younger players who are dying to play the format.
I think you nailed it here. I don't think it's that there's a lack of interest in the format at all; it's just that it's financially, and ultimately physically, inaccessible.
Even when I was getting into the game, Legacy was what got my attention more than Standard and Extended because of the allure of "power"; every player wants to know what it feels like to deny opponents for free, summon a fattie on Turn 1, and to combo off and hit someone for lethal.
I'm sure the interest is there. But the means to fill that interest, unfortunately, is not.
UWR Landstill
R Burn
It also dilutes the overall competition of the game since all you have are a bunch of old rich momma's dudes playing with fancy decks, all who can easily be beaten by any younger player who doesn't have the money to build them. Magic in many ways is like a modern day version of chess. The younger the player the likelier it is for him to make a modest income out of playing tournaments. Now all you see are a bunch of old loserish card collectors trying to manipulate card prices with some bizarre online Magic stock market graph that doesn't say absolutely anything about the card's real value. I'm happy to see my old Alpha Beta collection skyrocket in value, but WotC needs to end this phony charade and allow the younger generations to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to.
I thought about this for a minute. Yes, reprinting duals *could* potentially attract more players to Legacy (if you ONLY reprint the duals, that is). And the more I think about it, the less I think it's viable. The reason for that is that if you reprint the duals (let's exclude the idea that if you're willing to print these, then others will ask why not the rest? eventually) and it does bring new blood into the game, what do you think happens to all the staples that are on the reserve list? They explode in value and make it even LESS accessible. Although it would be sweet to get new card frame duals, it will never resolve the problem of scarcity. Legacy is a format that is doomed at the competitive level. SCG will have their "special events" be legacy and those will be like a sideshow, a "once, we played magic like this" kind of thing. It'll become a bit of a gimmick. Magic has moved on from this 'old man'.
At this point, if you wanna play legacy, you have to rely on your local community or...Japan.
Looks at Narset, T3feri, Oko, Once upon a Time, Veil of summer, Mystical dispute, Karn the great creator, W6, 2019 has probably been the year new expansions have influenced vintage and legacy the most.