is this deck dead why have there been no comments in nearly 1 year
I am wondering is it still good or what
i would be building it for casual just for fun because it seems like it is really fun
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[center][color=Blue]
U/R Delver
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
My friend runs this deck for fun, he uses Shuko..shuuko? because equip for 0, and restoration angel, or whichever has flash, and laboratory maniac as the combo
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Force of Will, Daze, Brainstorm, Ponder, Narcomoeba, Restoration Angel, there is room for Treasure Cruise since it likes to mill itself.
Edit: I think it could be viable, as viable as any combo deck in legacy.
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So two Opalescence and a Humility walk into a bar, I forget the rest of the joke but your sanctioned judge is a scrub.
Depends on what you mean by "has a place". Can it win games, yes. Are there decks in the format that do just about the same thing except better? yes.
Compare it to Sneak & Show. they are a 2 card combo deck of about the same speed and protection density. Except they blank more hate (most removal, grave hate, etc) and they have up to 8 of each combo piece.
BTW, you do not want to play Restoration Angel or Treasure Cruise in this deck because it will lose you lots of games.
The problem with it is that you still lose to a stifle/trickbind on the inital AoGR trigger. I'll try and find a post that outlines the different kill conditions, and edit it in here. Its a good read.
Killed by Stifle (they'll cast it on any creature's trigger)
Killed by creature removal (they'll cast it when the Kiki-Jiki trigger is on the stack)
Involves attack phase
Thermopod, Emrakul, and Kumano
Pros:
Infinite damage
Doesn't involve attack phase
Not killed by creature removal (sac Thermopod to itself in response, mill Emrakul, get Narcomoebas, Dread Return Thermopod, repeat--with Kumano, activate abilities in response--use 3 Dread Returns to ensure going off in the face of removal)
Cons:
Targets players
Killed by Stifle (they'll cast it on the first Emrakul trigger)
Necrotic Ooze, Dwarven Strike Force, Kiki-Jiki, and Mogg Fanatic
Pros:
Infinite damage
Doesn't involve attack phase
Not killed by creature removal (grant haste in response again, then combo off in their face)
Can pull it off even with two combo pieces stuck in hand (those 2 being Kiki-Jiki and Mogg Fanatic)--just discard them with the Dwarven Strike Force ability
Cons:
Targets players
Killed by Stifle (they'll cast it on the sim-Kiki-Jiki trigger)
Requires at least 1 card in hand the turn you go off
Laboratory Maniac is easy to hardcast/Vial in--if you do so, you ignore graveyard hate and win against game stalls
Cons:
Needs mana or a Gitaxian Probe in hand to win the turn you go off (or your opponent's turn)
Yikes, that was long.
All Lec' and shows how Lab Man is pretty much the only wincon not needing the graveyard, if you can set it up right.
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The very fact that Flamethrowers exist proves that someone somewhere said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire... But I'm just not close enough to do it"
What's everyone's take on Æther Vial count? I most often see lists running 4, but occasionally 3. I am currently running 4, but I'm starting to feel 3 maybe correct, but I'm not sure. I'm gonna test both more, but anyone have any thoughts from their own experiences?
Usually 4 vials is better because the 2nd vial is not dead. It frees up more lands to be used for cantrips and makes both combo pieces uncounterable. The third one probably is, but I'd rather draw 1-2 than 0-1. The faster draws are pretty important for this deck because most Legacy decks have many ways to interact with us (in the main), so giving them time to do that is inadvisable.
About people thinking you are one deck or the "fair" plain, playing against stoneblade decks is not so different than playing against us. Force and STP are still good etc. Once we play a vial, fetch Shuko with SFM etc the jig is up and we still need to resolve stuff. Counting on the opponent to misplay against you not a gameplan. You are getting percentage points from people you can be beating through sheer skill. Think of what happens if you play this deck against the same person again, or if you do well with it locally. Obscurity should not be a big reason to play a deck.
The main reason I would not play SFM in this deck is that Shuko sucks. One of the best parts about this combo is that after both pieces are on board the opponent should have no way to stop the win. We mill at instant speed, and then have 2ish chances to destroy their hand before casting Dread Return. Shuko solves a problem we do not have. We are pinched not on the Nomad piece of the combo as we can play more than 4 of those already, but at the Illusionist piece of the combo. Only 4 of those exist. So we now have easy access to a card that is worse than Nomad.
We also can't play a reasonable "fair" game preboard. The opponent's fair deck is full of fair card while ours has fair cards and then nonsense like nacromoeba. If they are drawing Abrupt decays and we are trying to beat them fairly with that quality of topdecks we don't stand a chance. Unless of course we are playing against other combo decks where our disruption is what carries us and we can just win with lame 1/1s.
The transformational SB plan is the best reason to play SFM but I've yet to see a good enough transformational SB.
I can post my list if y'all want. It has a wish board and some tops to minimize inconsistency and find answers. Also the kill is a little bit tighter than the others kills I've seen.
Only 8 people showed up and the field was as follows
Cephalid Breakfast (Me)
Elves
Tezz Affinity
Tezz Affinity
Miracles
Nic Fit
Sultai Delver
Dredge
The event went like this
Round 1 VS Tez Affinity 2-0
Game 1 he mulliganed to 5, drew a bunch of lands, and died awkwardly. Game 2 he had a pretty sweet starting hand and on the play he went Turn 1 Seat of the Synod, Ornithopter, Signal Pest, Mox Opal, tap it for mana, Mox Opal, Cranial Plating. Luckily I had a Force of Will for the Plating. He then cast a Rest in Peace on turn two, but had no more pressure so I had plenty of time to tutor up my combo pieces then Echoing Truth his Rest in Peace.
Round 2 VS Sultai Delver 0-2
Game 1 was pretty miserable. I mulliganed to 4 off of a flip flop of all land/no land hands. My 4 was Delta, Strand, Daze, Therapy. I actually survived quite a while and died with all my combo pieces in hand the turn before I could cast them. Game 2 he had too much disruption and I died with a Cephalid Illusionist and Eladamri's Call in hand because I couldn't fetch a G/W source and use it twice since he had 2 Wastelands in play. Had I fetched a basic Plains earlier in the game I think I would have been fine. Every decision matters.
Round 3 VS Dredge 2-0
Game one was exactly what you expect from this matchup in game 1. Aside from a tiny bit of disruption we each played solitaire as fast as possible and I got there first. Game two my opponent mulliganed to 5 and then I Misdirectioned his Turn 1 Unmask to see 2 more lands in his hand. The awkward thing is my cantrips got me no where, and I ended up just beating him down with a Grand Abolisher while sitting on a pair of Nihil Spellbombs. My first time winning with damage with this deck.
The shop then announced the Top 4 for the Finals cut. At this point we all agreed it wasn't worth it to play out since it was a winner take all win-a-box and it wasn't sanctioned so no points were at risk, so we all just split the box and went our ways. For the record, the Top 4 was me, Elves, Delver, and Affinity. If I knew I'd be able to dodge the Delver player I might not have split as I feel very comfortable with the other 2 matchups, but I didn't feel like risking walking out with nothing and I had other places to be.
Overall I had a ton of fun with the deck and felt my losses could have been wins had I played better. I can't think of any changes I'd make currently. Not 100% sure if I'll stick to this deck or switch to Reanimator, but either way this deck still seems viable. Maybe not optimal, but not abysmal by any means.
I am looking into a budget version of this deck after reading over the primer it says that a budget version can still be worked. Is it possible now a days? I play Death and Taxes and have zero skill with combo so i want to learn it.
Thanks
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Vintage-Shops/BUG/Dredge Legacy-Death and Taxes/Nic Fit
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
Hello I played a version of the deck some time ago and I found it very good. I played a version with mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith. It looked like this:
I wanted to ask what you think about it, and what you think I could do to improve the deck. I think some cardchoices at that time seem to be not optimal like mana leak.
Greetings Heskatet
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I played the same list (less SB) as Slayer89 above with the now-banned Dig Through Time replaced by the fourth Force of Will and the Grand Abolisher replaced by a third Daze as I couldn't find a copy of Abolisher prior to the event. The sideboard would probably be fairly ineffective in a different metagame. I wanted to generally cover Deathrite Shaman with Swords to Plowshares, Lands with the graveyard hate, Delver/counterspell decks with Misdirection and Spell Pierce, hateful permanents with my disenchants, and creature-based aggro with True-Name Nemesis.
Round 1 vs. Michelle on modern Soul Sisters
Game 1: I kept something like Æther Vial plus combo. I put Nomads en-Kor in play at the end of turn two and Cephalid Illusionist in play on turn three. My opponent was tapped out for a Spectral Procession so I used my Narcomoebas immediately to win.
Game 2: I got even luckier to open with 2 Vials, combo, and Laboratory Maniac. Rest in Peace hit the field on turn 2 so I Vialed in combo pieces as applicable and then Lab Man on turn 4 upkeep to win on my draw step.
Round 2 vs. Zach on Infect
Game 1: Sweet opener again. Led with basic Island Æther Vial so I could pretend to be Merfolk. Won quickly, flashing back Cabal Therapies to clear Force of Will.
Game 2: Kept Vial + half of combo. I Swordsed an Inkmoth Nexus and Pondered a bunch, putting Illusionist into play at the end of his turn 4. I cast Nomads and comboed with 4 lands total (1 tapped). I flashed back a Therapy sacrificing Nomads which was Dazed. I did not pay and flashed back another Therapy sacrificing Illusionist. In response, one of my Narcomoebas was Submerged as I controlled Tropical Island. Luckily, I had another Ponder in hand to draw the Narcomoeba, tap out to cast it, and win through a non-Force of Will hand.
Round 3 vs. Alejandro on budget Deathblade (Stifle over FoW, shocks)
Game 1: Kept half of combo, 2 lands, 2 FoW, Ponder, Daze. I Forced pitching Force his turn 1 Deathrite Shaman on my turn 0. Cantripped back into the game and won around turn 3 or turn 4.
Game 2: Kept basic Swamp, Æther Vial, Eladamri's Call since my luck had been unreal all night. Didn't draw blue mana for a while (I think I cast a Therapy at some point). He had a few Swords to Plowshares for the pieces I put into play one at a time off Vial and a stream of Deathrite Shamans which occupied my own Swords to Plowshares. Game over when he got to four mana and connected with Umezawa's Jitte on my empty board.
Game 3: Kept Æther Vial + combo with an extra Illusionist. Turn 1 land Vial, turn 2 land pass. Responded to his Inquisition of Kozilek by Vialing in Nomads and presenting a hand that couldn't be disrupted by a single discard spell. Got my fetchland Stifle and started to win on my turn 3, Therapying away a Spell Pierce
Props: I got insane hands all night
Slops: Really can't complain
I am wondering is it still good or what
i would be building it for casual just for fun because it seems like it is really fun
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Edit: I think it could be viable, as viable as any combo deck in legacy.
Compare it to Sneak & Show. they are a 2 card combo deck of about the same speed and protection density. Except they blank more hate (most removal, grave hate, etc) and they have up to 8 of each combo piece.
BTW, you do not want to play Restoration Angel or Treasure Cruise in this deck because it will lose you lots of games.
My friend discovered this new combo the other day. You dread return out Angel of glory's rise who then brings out Azami, lady of scrolls and Laboratory maniac. You can tap cephalid illusionist with Azami's ability to draw the non-existent card therefore winning the game with laboratory maniac .
People often throw out different kill combinations that have their ups and downs.
You forgot to have a Grand Abolisher in your MD so it gives you pseudo Xantid Swarm
The problem with it is that you still lose to a stifle/trickbind on the inital AoGR trigger. I'll try and find a post that outlines the different kill conditions, and edit it in here. Its a good read.
EDIT: Here you go...
About people thinking you are one deck or the "fair" plain, playing against stoneblade decks is not so different than playing against us. Force and STP are still good etc. Once we play a vial, fetch Shuko with SFM etc the jig is up and we still need to resolve stuff. Counting on the opponent to misplay against you not a gameplan. You are getting percentage points from people you can be beating through sheer skill. Think of what happens if you play this deck against the same person again, or if you do well with it locally. Obscurity should not be a big reason to play a deck.
The main reason I would not play SFM in this deck is that Shuko sucks. One of the best parts about this combo is that after both pieces are on board the opponent should have no way to stop the win. We mill at instant speed, and then have 2ish chances to destroy their hand before casting Dread Return. Shuko solves a problem we do not have. We are pinched not on the Nomad piece of the combo as we can play more than 4 of those already, but at the Illusionist piece of the combo. Only 4 of those exist. So we now have easy access to a card that is worse than Nomad.
We also can't play a reasonable "fair" game preboard. The opponent's fair deck is full of fair card while ours has fair cards and then nonsense like nacromoeba. If they are drawing Abrupt decays and we are trying to beat them fairly with that quality of topdecks we don't stand a chance. Unless of course we are playing against other combo decks where our disruption is what carries us and we can just win with lame 1/1s.
The transformational SB plan is the best reason to play SFM but I've yet to see a good enough transformational SB.
I can post my list if y'all want. It has a wish board and some tops to minimize inconsistency and find answers. Also the kill is a little bit tighter than the others kills I've seen.
1 Shaman en-Kor
4 Cephalid Illusionist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Grand Abolisher
4 Æther Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
4 Eladamri's Call
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Force of Will
2 Daze
1 Dread Return
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Duress
3 Misdirection
3 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Echoing Truth
Only 8 people showed up and the field was as follows
Cephalid Breakfast (Me)
Elves
Tezz Affinity
Tezz Affinity
Miracles
Nic Fit
Sultai Delver
Dredge
The event went like this
Round 1 VS Tez Affinity 2-0
Game 1 he mulliganed to 5, drew a bunch of lands, and died awkwardly. Game 2 he had a pretty sweet starting hand and on the play he went Turn 1 Seat of the Synod, Ornithopter, Signal Pest, Mox Opal, tap it for mana, Mox Opal, Cranial Plating. Luckily I had a Force of Will for the Plating. He then cast a Rest in Peace on turn two, but had no more pressure so I had plenty of time to tutor up my combo pieces then Echoing Truth his Rest in Peace.
Round 2 VS Sultai Delver 0-2
Game 1 was pretty miserable. I mulliganed to 4 off of a flip flop of all land/no land hands. My 4 was Delta, Strand, Daze, Therapy. I actually survived quite a while and died with all my combo pieces in hand the turn before I could cast them. Game 2 he had too much disruption and I died with a Cephalid Illusionist and Eladamri's Call in hand because I couldn't fetch a G/W source and use it twice since he had 2 Wastelands in play. Had I fetched a basic Plains earlier in the game I think I would have been fine. Every decision matters.
Round 3 VS Dredge 2-0
Game one was exactly what you expect from this matchup in game 1. Aside from a tiny bit of disruption we each played solitaire as fast as possible and I got there first. Game two my opponent mulliganed to 5 and then I Misdirectioned his Turn 1 Unmask to see 2 more lands in his hand. The awkward thing is my cantrips got me no where, and I ended up just beating him down with a Grand Abolisher while sitting on a pair of Nihil Spellbombs. My first time winning with damage with this deck.
The shop then announced the Top 4 for the Finals cut. At this point we all agreed it wasn't worth it to play out since it was a winner take all win-a-box and it wasn't sanctioned so no points were at risk, so we all just split the box and went our ways. For the record, the Top 4 was me, Elves, Delver, and Affinity. If I knew I'd be able to dodge the Delver player I might not have split as I feel very comfortable with the other 2 matchups, but I didn't feel like risking walking out with nothing and I had other places to be.
Overall I had a ton of fun with the deck and felt my losses could have been wins had I played better. I can't think of any changes I'd make currently. Not 100% sure if I'll stick to this deck or switch to Reanimator, but either way this deck still seems viable. Maybe not optimal, but not abysmal by any means.
Thanks
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
4x Ponder
4x Force of will
4x Basalt Monolith
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Narcomoeba
3x Fabricate
3x Mana Leak
3x Spell Pierce
1x Dread Return
1x Angel of Glory's Rise
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1x Phantasmagorian
2x Careful Study
1x Pact of Negation
4x Ancient Tomb
14x Island
Sideboard:
I wanted to ask what you think about it, and what you think I could do to improve the deck. I think some cardchoices at that time seem to be not optimal like mana leak.
Greetings Heskatet
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
4 Nomads en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
4 Cephalid Illusionist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Hapless Researcher
Spells (27)
4 Æther Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Eladamri's Call
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Dread Return
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
2 Watery Grave
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Disenchant
1 Krosan Grip
3 True-Name Nemesis
I played the same list (less SB) as Slayer89 above with the now-banned Dig Through Time replaced by the fourth Force of Will and the Grand Abolisher replaced by a third Daze as I couldn't find a copy of Abolisher prior to the event. The sideboard would probably be fairly ineffective in a different metagame. I wanted to generally cover Deathrite Shaman with Swords to Plowshares, Lands with the graveyard hate, Delver/counterspell decks with Misdirection and Spell Pierce, hateful permanents with my disenchants, and creature-based aggro with True-Name Nemesis.
Round 1 vs. Michelle on modern Soul Sisters
Game 1: I kept something like Æther Vial plus combo. I put Nomads en-Kor in play at the end of turn two and Cephalid Illusionist in play on turn three. My opponent was tapped out for a Spectral Procession so I used my Narcomoebas immediately to win.
Game 2: I got even luckier to open with 2 Vials, combo, and Laboratory Maniac. Rest in Peace hit the field on turn 2 so I Vialed in combo pieces as applicable and then Lab Man on turn 4 upkeep to win on my draw step.
Round 2 vs. Zach on Infect
Game 1: Sweet opener again. Led with basic Island Æther Vial so I could pretend to be Merfolk. Won quickly, flashing back Cabal Therapies to clear Force of Will.
Game 2: Kept Vial + half of combo. I Swordsed an Inkmoth Nexus and Pondered a bunch, putting Illusionist into play at the end of his turn 4. I cast Nomads and comboed with 4 lands total (1 tapped). I flashed back a Therapy sacrificing Nomads which was Dazed. I did not pay and flashed back another Therapy sacrificing Illusionist. In response, one of my Narcomoebas was Submerged as I controlled Tropical Island. Luckily, I had another Ponder in hand to draw the Narcomoeba, tap out to cast it, and win through a non-Force of Will hand.
Round 3 vs. Alejandro on budget Deathblade (Stifle over FoW, shocks)
Game 1: Kept half of combo, 2 lands, 2 FoW, Ponder, Daze. I Forced pitching Force his turn 1 Deathrite Shaman on my turn 0. Cantripped back into the game and won around turn 3 or turn 4.
Game 2: Kept basic Swamp, Æther Vial, Eladamri's Call since my luck had been unreal all night. Didn't draw blue mana for a while (I think I cast a Therapy at some point). He had a few Swords to Plowshares for the pieces I put into play one at a time off Vial and a stream of Deathrite Shamans which occupied my own Swords to Plowshares. Game over when he got to four mana and connected with Umezawa's Jitte on my empty board.
Game 3: Kept Æther Vial + combo with an extra Illusionist. Turn 1 land Vial, turn 2 land pass. Responded to his Inquisition of Kozilek by Vialing in Nomads and presenting a hand that couldn't be disrupted by a single discard spell. Got my fetchland Stifle and started to win on my turn 3, Therapying away a Spell Pierce
Props: I got insane hands all night
Slops: Really can't complain
I'd play a Grand Abolisher if I could find one and probably a Stern Proctor as well to increase the utility of Eladamri's Call and give the deck a bit of long game.