Just a question, why not utilize the interaction between Intuition and Goblin Welder better and provide the deck with an alternative win condition or something?
After the good results of this deck in the SCG-Open i had to try it..
i LOVE it... fast, fun and not easily hated away with Sb...
one big question i still have is the Sb...one GUy at the SCG-Open used SnT and Emrakul to switch Win-con. i am not really convinced with this idea..at the moment i am playing a "normal" Sb:
3 Spellskite (Agains Decks with lots of removals: Zoo, Junk...)
3 Blood Moon (any BUG bulid such as TA and BUG-Still, UW Landstill)
4 REB/Pyroblast (Merfolk, MUC)
3 Tormods Crypt (Dreadge, Reanimator, ...)
2 Ensering Bridge (Gobos, Merfolk, Zoo, Maverick, ...)
Decks present at my store (no praticular order) -- my SB slots for this MU:
1x NOBant -- Spellskite, Blood Moon, Bridge ... maybe a bit too much (bu it is the deck of a good friend, and i wanna win this MU)
2X Affinity -- Bridge and REB
3x Dreadge -- Crypts
3x Merfolk -- Bridge and REB
2x Gobos -- Spellskite and Bridge
1X Burn -- Spellskite
1x Painterstone -- ?!? maybe REB and Crypts
1x MUC -- REB
1x UW-Landstill -- REB
1x Combo Elfes -- Maybe Bridge, favorable MU anyway
1x Doomsday -- REB and Blood Moon
1x Monoblack Aggro -- Bridge
1x Rock -- Spellskite and Blood Moon
1x Temop-Feries -- REB and BLood Moon
i might have forgotten some of the present decks...all inputs concerning my List/SB and any other MUs are very wellcome I might try to give some feedbacks from the MUs in future..but at the moment i dont find time to play all day long and test... :-(
I'd try to add a Wurmcoil Engine in there as an Alternate Win-con. You can do some sweet Welding with that guy. I guess big-robot-plan is not as awesome in Legacy as in Vintage without the lonely Tinker
I was thinking about adding a wurmcoil in the Mb. with this is would have at lest the theoretical chance of winning agains any emrakul-deck perboard...but no one plays such a build in my area...or i havent meet him yet..so i gave up on g1 vs. emrakul and focused on deck in my area..bad idea?
the point about the tranistion Sb is, that i wont be able to cast the wurm early. usually t3 or 4, which is very/too late.. sure if i can bring it to the yard and have an acvtive welder..
but a friend of mine keeps telling me to try some wurms..
What about Thirst for Knowledge or Careful Study? Could be a way to drop robots to your yard and reanimate them with Welder. The issue is that the deck will be vulnerable to graveyard hate, more than it is already.
No i cant "waste" more slots on the not so promissing wurmcoil-plan.. it wont bring the deck any further...or i just cant see it...
Just one robot MB and then hope to draw it when i am having a Thirst for Knowledge or a Careful Study in hand and an active welder...doesnt sound like a good plan to me...and if i am playing the robos in the SB..what do i do with the Thirst for Knowledge or Careful Study in the MB...and bringing both for the Sb seams to me like a bad SnT/Emrakul-package..
i just cant see these two strategies working well together..
i would rather have the Llawan-package für aggor MUs...which isnt convicing for me as well..
I can see your point, but I don't know how much experience you have with Goblin Welder, but generally speaking, you want cool things in your graveyard with Welder in play.
The problem I see with a solo Robot-plan in the MD is that you can't tinker him directly into play in Legacy. You can only Intuition for him, but most likely you will receive the big robot in your hand, rather than your combo piece, or whatever other card you would like. So, you need a plan to get it into your graveyard. If not then you need to run more robots so that you are sure to be able to have one and cheat him out into play with Welder.
I played a lot of Control Slaver and Cerebral Assassin in Vintage, although these are a completely different beasts, you got Goblin Welder and Intuition giving you the same possibilities abusing Welder and your graveyard. But that could be for game 2. I dunno if players would sideboard in graveyard hate vs grindstone combo.
If so, you could have robot plan game 1 where people don't have yard hate, and use grindstone combo game 2 since Painterstone is less vulnerable to Tormod's crypts etc.
If artifacts and enchantments are the main sideboard against this deck, then you could bring in artifact/enchantment disruption and counter magic.
I must say I got a bit inspired, and will start plotting a legacy version of Cerebral Assassin or Control Slaver. Although it will be harder (less fluid) without Solomoxen and Tinker. I just love Goblin Welder decks.
I did not make that experiance...if a null rod drops and you dont have the TWO card solution ready...good luck trying to find these tow pieces... i can see this as a solutionagainst the white leyline but not against null rod..i lost a lot of games due to a null rod.. even after boarding in REBs...
Relics and Crypts. The ability of the Grindstone has to fully resolve before the Emrakuls trigger, this means that you will flip the library into the graveyard. You can then respond to the Emrakul triggers by removing their graveyard from the game.
It's an annoying problem, but nothing that can't be dealt with.
I think it's pretty good to run a mainboard Relic of Progenitus. You can find it with Trinket Mage and you won't auto-lose to game one Eldrazi.
While Emrakul is good against Grindstone, REB and Pyroblast are good against Hive Mind so I'd say the match-up isn't half bad.
Hey guys,
I top 8ed the GP with this deck, and I have been on a hiatus from tournament play (new job...). How have people been doing with this deck? I'm about to start playtesting again, and I'm probably gonna toss a couple Spellskites into the maindeck; it seems really solid.
Counterbalance turns this deck into a bad control deck and a bad combo deck. You really want to focus the deck around the combo with consistent protection. A U/W Counterbalance deck that uses Painter Grindstone as a wincon is probably fine, but that deck is a control deck and is a completely different strategy than this.
Hey guys,
I top 8ed the GP with this deck, and I have been on a hiatus from tournament play (new job...). How have people been doing with this deck? I'm about to start playtesting again, and I'm probably gonna toss a couple Spellskites into the maindeck; it seems really solid.
Hey if you go to Star city deck database you can look at a U/R Painter that made the top 16 maybe top 8 in one of the last few tournys, it was after MM banning. So since the MM ban it seems to be back.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
Instants [19]
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
4 Mental Misstep
Artifacts [12]
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Mox Opal
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
2 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Great Furnace
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Volcanic Island
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
Instants [18]
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
4 Mental Misstep
Sorceries [1]
1 Transmute Artifact
Artifacts [12]
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 City of Traitors
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Great Furnace
3 Volcanic Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Blood Moon
3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Misdirection
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
4x SDT seems a bit overkill to me for example.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
i LOVE it... fast, fun and not easily hated away with Sb...
one big question i still have is the Sb...one GUy at the SCG-Open used SnT and Emrakul to switch Win-con. i am not really convinced with this idea..at the moment i am playing a "normal" Sb:
3 Spellskite (Agains Decks with lots of removals: Zoo, Junk...)
3 Blood Moon (any BUG bulid such as TA and BUG-Still, UW Landstill)
4 REB/Pyroblast (Merfolk, MUC)
3 Tormods Crypt (Dreadge, Reanimator, ...)
2 Ensering Bridge (Gobos, Merfolk, Zoo, Maverick, ...)
Suggestions...!?!?
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Creatures [8]
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
Instants [18]
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
4 Mental Misstep
Artifacts [13]
3 Mox Opal
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 LED
1 Ensnering Bridge
Lands [21]
1 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Polluted Delta
3 Great Furnace
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Volcanic Island
MY SB:
3 Spellskite
3 Blood Moon
4 REB/Pyroblast
3 Tormods Crypt
2 Ensering Bridge
Decks present at my store (no praticular order) -- my SB slots for this MU:
1x NOBant -- Spellskite, Blood Moon, Bridge ... maybe a bit too much (bu it is the deck of a good friend, and i wanna win this MU)
2X Affinity -- Bridge and REB
3x Dreadge -- Crypts
3x Merfolk -- Bridge and REB
2x Gobos -- Spellskite and Bridge
1X Burn -- Spellskite
1x Painterstone -- ?!? maybe REB and Crypts
1x MUC -- REB
1x UW-Landstill -- REB
1x Combo Elfes -- Maybe Bridge, favorable MU anyway
1x Doomsday -- REB and Blood Moon
1x Monoblack Aggro -- Bridge
1x Rock -- Spellskite and Blood Moon
1x Temop-Feries -- REB and BLood Moon
i might have forgotten some of the present decks...all inputs concerning my List/SB and any other MUs are very wellcome I might try to give some feedbacks from the MUs in future..but at the moment i dont find time to play all day long and test... :-(
the point about the tranistion Sb is, that i wont be able to cast the wurm early. usually t3 or 4, which is very/too late.. sure if i can bring it to the yard and have an acvtive welder..
but a friend of mine keeps telling me to try some wurms..
Just one robot MB and then hope to draw it when i am having a Thirst for Knowledge or a Careful Study in hand and an active welder...doesnt sound like a good plan to me...and if i am playing the robos in the SB..what do i do with the Thirst for Knowledge or Careful Study in the MB...and bringing both for the Sb seams to me like a bad SnT/Emrakul-package..
i just cant see these two strategies working well together..
i would rather have the Llawan-package für aggor MUs...which isnt convicing for me as well..
The problem I see with a solo Robot-plan in the MD is that you can't tinker him directly into play in Legacy. You can only Intuition for him, but most likely you will receive the big robot in your hand, rather than your combo piece, or whatever other card you would like. So, you need a plan to get it into your graveyard. If not then you need to run more robots so that you are sure to be able to have one and cheat him out into play with Welder.
Sample Intuition Abuse:
Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland + (Academy Ruin)
Possessed Portal + Wurmcoil Engine + (Sqee, Goblin Naboob)
I played a lot of Control Slaver and Cerebral Assassin in Vintage, although these are a completely different beasts, you got Goblin Welder and Intuition giving you the same possibilities abusing Welder and your graveyard. But that could be for game 2. I dunno if players would sideboard in graveyard hate vs grindstone combo.
If so, you could have robot plan game 1 where people don't have yard hate, and use grindstone combo game 2 since Painterstone is less vulnerable to Tormod's crypts etc.
I must say I got a bit inspired, and will start plotting a legacy version of Cerebral Assassin or Control Slaver. Although it will be harder (less fluid) without Solomoxen and Tinker. I just love Goblin Welder decks.
maybe the new red permantent removal (Name?) from the commander deck would help..
Painter's Servant + Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast answers it pretty well.
Edit: What? There was a second page of responses?
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
It's an annoying problem, but nothing that can't be dealt with.
I think it's pretty good to run a mainboard Relic of Progenitus. You can find it with Trinket Mage and you won't auto-lose to game one Eldrazi.
While Emrakul is good against Grindstone, REB and Pyroblast are good against Hive Mind so I'd say the match-up isn't half bad.
I top 8ed the GP with this deck, and I have been on a hiatus from tournament play (new job...). How have people been doing with this deck? I'm about to start playtesting again, and I'm probably gonna toss a couple Spellskites into the maindeck; it seems really solid.
This was my original list from a while ago, looking back at it I think a better version would be:
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Seat of the Synod
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Grindstone
3x Painter's Servant
3x Mox Opal
Creatures:
1x Magus of the Moon
4x Imperial Recruiter
3x Grand Architect
1x Trinket Mage
4x Counterbalance
Land:
4x Volcanic Island
3x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
3x Mountain
Spells:
4x Force of Will
2x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
4x Brainstorm
2x Magus of the Moon
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Hey if you go to Star city deck database you can look at a U/R Painter that made the top 16 maybe top 8 in one of the last few tournys, it was after MM banning. So since the MM ban it seems to be back.
Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
Currently Playing:
Legacy:
BUGBUG DelverGUB
UWRUWR MiraclesRWU
RUGRUG DelverGUR
UUHigh TideUU
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlRWU
UBUB FaeriesBU
BGRJundRGB
URUR StormRU
Standard:
UWUW ControlWU