Adeptus Addendum: Big thanks to Goliat for writing this!
Introduction
UW(x) ThopterBalance has, as many decks, a couple of different ways to be built, and thus played. In general, it's a UW(x)-deck with the following 5 archetype-defining cards, which differs it from UW(x) Stoneblade:
3.a
Play, resolve and protect either Jace or Thopter Foundry. If you use JTMS to find the combo, or Foundry to protect Jace (this is fairly rare) isn't cast in stone, but I strongly advise people to use JTMS to dig and not start +2ing it straight away unless you have total board-advantage
3.b
Protect your threat with Misstep, FoW and Counterbalance until you either have dominating board-position, or won trough Batterskull-beats
Card Choises
Maindeck
To reiterate, the core of the deck is the following cards. The # in brackets represent the usual amount of this card played
Brainstorm (4)
This should need no explanation to anyone having played blue in Legacy
Enlightened Tutor (2-4)
This card works wonderfully in this deck. If it wasn't for the fact that it is card-disadvantage (meaning that several in your opening hand would run you out of steam quickly), every list would run 4. It allows you to run powerful singletons in your deck, counter spells with Counterbalance, shuffles for Top and makes the Foundry + Sword combo viable.
Mental Misstep (2-4)
This new contender for Legacy is here to stay. It is important to have access to this card to battle other Missteps, so that your Top resolves, but it naturally also deals with everything from Dark Ritual to Goblin Lackey. While it might seem counter intuitive to include Misstep when your gameplan resolves around resolving Counterbalance + Top, it's important to remember that nothing ever goes to plan. And if it does, you have a Top in play to make sure you don't draw it, Brainstorm in your deck to get rid of it, or simply FoW to pitch it to.
Sensei's Divining Top (3-4)
This card is excellent in furthering your game-plan, and most lists play the full set. In addition to working wonders with Counterbalance (which really makes it a necessity), it allows you to dig for the cards you need, be it a part of the combo, or just an answer to a threat.
Swords to Plowshares (4)
Very few lists play less than 4 StPs, and even fewer of those have a good reason not to. It's the best removal-spell in the game, hands-down, and essential to making sure you don't get beaten up by a bunch of Tarmogoyfs or Bobs.
Counterbalance (3-4)
This is what a lot of your deck resolves around, and thus should really not need a lot of explanation. There are a couple of "tricks" you should be aware of though, which I will list near the end of this.
Sword of the Meek (1)
You will not more than one of this. It is completely useless on it's own, and you really only want to see it after you've resolved Thopter Foundry.
Thopter Foundry (2)
The reason almost everyone is running 2 Thopter Foundry is three-fold.
First of all, it's not useless on it's own like Sword (see "Tricks").
Secondly, it pitches to FoW, and then you might want a backup in case you're forced to Force (pun very much intended).
Thirdly, if your first Foundry gets countered/destroyed, and Academy Ruins is nowhere near in sight, having the second copy to tutor up is very handy
Jace, the Mind Sculptor (1-2)
Your second win-condition, and a great multipurpose-tool. JTMS doesn't need much backup to single handedly win you the game. Problem is naturally that he costs 4, and you need to resolve him first. That's why few lists play more than two. With the amount of filtering in the deck, it's not unreasonably to expect seeing a Jace by turn 4, or when you really need it. In addition to being a nutty card-advantage-machine and "removal", he serves as a second win-condition in many decks.
Moat/Humility (1)
Almost every list runs one of these two, but pretty much none run both. They fulfill the same role in the deck, locking down your opponents board, and as you're not planning to have it destroyed there is no reason to run a backup. Which is the correct one to run can be argued a ton on, but that belongs to the rest of the forum.
Force of Will (4)
As in every other controlling blue deck, Force of Will makes an appearance. Much like Swords to Plowshares, you really need a good reason not to run 4, and even then you are probably wrong. This card is so important in some matchups, and carries it's weight in every other. Since the deck resolves around protecting certain pieces, it's important to actually have the protection when you need it. Later in the game, it provides a use for your excess Mental Missteps and Counterbalances, or just gets filtered away with Top or Brainstorm.
If you think you want less than 4, you should just side some or all out in the matchups where you think it will be bad. In game 1, you should really just be playing the full playset.
Engineered Explosives (1)
This is the most common singleton in the deck, after the usual suspects, and it's reasonable to suspect every list includes at least 1 copy somewhere in the 75. The uses this card has are endless, and it has merit in almost every matchup. It's synergy with Academy Ruins contributes further to it's power.
That should cover the cards that are included in pretty much every list. Below are options for the last slots, which defines your deck and your gameplan. Since there are so many, I won't provide an explanation for every card:
*not recommended. If you start playing more equipment than Sword of the Meek and Batterskull main it should also mean you're playing more creatures than just Stoneforge Mystic. That means Vendillion Clique, and probably Bob, and suddenly you're playing UW(x) Stoneblade with Counterbalance, Top and Enlightened Tutor. That's just trying to do too many things, and will not end well.
I probably forget some, but this should at least get you an idea of what options you have for the last few slots
Manabase
UW(x) ThopterBalance is in general UW-coloured, but almost always includes some other colored duals to make Engineered Explosives better and to play some of it's SB-cards. It often plays a high number of basics, to avoid getting completely ruined by Wasteland. Some builds also runs Back to Basics or Blood Moon.
The core of the manabase is the following:
-Some number of basic Islands
-One or two basic Plains
-Two or more Tundras
-Some off-colored blue dual
-4 Flooded Strand
-Some number of blue fetchlands
-One or two Academy Ruins
In addition to this, there are a number of options for "special lands":
-Karakas
You will never want to run more than one, since it's legendary, but as a singleton it gives you a great tool to deal with Emrakul, Vendillion Clique and Gaddock Teeg
-Seat of the Synod
Can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor, sacrificed to Foundry and dodges Choke. It doesn't dodge Wasteland and generic artifact-removal however, so not everyone plays it
-Tolaria West
Enables many of these "special lands" to be viable as singletons, while also dodging Choke. It's fairly awkward to play ordinarily, but it still taps for U like every other Island
-Wasteland
Very, very few lists play this as a 4-of, considering it's a control-deck, after all. But as a singleton, together with Tolaria West to find it and Crucible of Worlds, it can win the game for you on it's own.
-Mishra's Factory
You probably only want to run this if you run Humility, and not Moat. It puts a definitive strain on the manabase, but it's free a 2/2 that kicks ass along with Humility.
Sideboard
There is a ton of SB-options for UW(x) ThopterBalance, and explaining every single would require way too much space. Instead, I will briefly explain the "dude-plan", and list every possible (reasonable) SB-card for the deck.:
As you can see, there are a `couple` of SB-options for this deck. I do not endorse all of these, not by a long shot, but they're possibilities. Especially those marked with * I dislike, be it because there are stronger version of what the card gives, or it's just straight-up not a powerful enough effect.
This should be a fairly comprehensive list of every blue/white/black – colored card, but it's quite likely I missed some green or red ones. Feel free to come with suggestions
The "dude-plan" is the idea of playing no real targets for Swords to Plowshares or other removal main, then siding in some number of creatures post-board. The usual candidates for this are Bob, Stoneforge Mystic and Vendillion Clique.
Tricks
There are a couple of basic things you should be familiar with when it comes to interactions between your cards when playing UW(x) ThopterBalance:
-If you are going to counter a spell with Force of Will, or another counterspell, you should always do it before your Counterbalance-abilety triggers. With paper-magic, you should be careful to announce that the ability is still on the stack when you play your counterspell
-You can naturally respond to your own Counterbalance triggering, be it to play Brainstorm, activate Top, play Enlightened Tutor or a combination of those
-You can stack the rearrange-ability of Top, then draw the top-card with it, then let your stacked ability resolve so that you can put Top another place than at the top
-You can stack the draw-ability of Top, then sacrifice it to Foundry to draw a card, and get a thopter (and a life!)
-You can sacrifice artifacts in play with Foundry in response to your Counterbalance triggering, then put the artifact on top of your library with Academy Ruins
-You can combine the two "tricks" above to get a free thopter (and a life!) given enough mana and the right cards. This works with Nihil Spellbomb too
Why did you use a [Deck] tag when the first sentence describe this as a strategy and not a deck?
Apart from that, Enlightened Tutor has been suggested and used in CounterTop builds, even in Landstill variants. It's pretty good. ETutor might even enable you to make some sort of Bant CounterTop/Survival hybrid.
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Enlightened tutor Control is proven competitive and Cabal_chan told me i could. Multiple decks have done well and multiple pros have writen articles about it. There might have been suggestions to put Etutor in countertop deck but it is just not picking up steam. I'd say it deserves a thread more that 50% of the threads in the Proven Competitive section.
The "[deck]" tag seemed to be on most of the good decks. I'm a go with the flow type of guy. "monkey see monkey do" or something like that
I don't know what that last thing was about. Are you suggesting that Bant CounterTop/Survival hybrid would be better fit in the proven competitive section?
Well although I would disagree about how competitive this deck is, could you please post some links to where this deck has been talked about and some proven results of it top 8'ing?
I'll find you some tonight. I'm currently at work. So all i have right now is AJ Sacher made top 8 of the SCG 5k. There is an article link by the deck list and Carlos Santiago went undefeated during Day 1 of GP Madrid.
To clarify, I did ask that the deck be posted in Proven. If it's found that it doesn't meet the requirements for Proven, it will be moved to Developing.
I used to run B2B inquisition last year, and it was a tank. A UGw Thresh list running B2B, oblivion ring, CB+Top and E. tutor to abuse everything. It was beautiful. And T8'd a LOT in Europe. If a 1-of e.tutor to compliment a few other strategies makes it... more in this thread than any other, I think it has enough T8 places to make the thread work by it's self.
I think the threat base would need revamping but I could totally see a 1-of e. tutor greatly benefiting modern Bant countertop in certain (very highly developed) metas.
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wow, Thats a lot less than i thought. I think it's due to very few people playing it. If you must, go ahead and move it, but i think it will be coming back.
The archetype that plays 4 Enlightened Tutor will have trouble playing more than 2 Sensei's Divining Top. The tutors go get your tops and avoid the problem of duplicate tops.
4 Counterbalance is livable even though you can easily find them when you need them because tutors and Counterbalance are a nice combo.
This is Zvi Mowshowitz's Landstill with Enlightened Tutors from Worlds 2007 - http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12315. It's a wonderful example of how Enlightened Tutor and Counterbalance can work with silver bullet enchantments and artifacts to create a powerful whole. And yes he uses 4 tops but he's Zvi and can get away with that.
If you have 2 top just play them, then when you have a shuffle effect (your example has 11+ crucible to bring fetchlands back) just draw a card and shuffle 1 back in the deck. As for counterbalance, Extras are usually Force of Will fodder.
If you have 2 top just play them, then when you have a shuffle effect (your example has 11+ crucible to bring fetchlands back) just draw a card and shuffle 1 back in the deck. As for counterbalance, Extras are usually Force of Will fodder.
Tops are not answers or threats. Drawing into multiples of them slow down both your response time and your ability to swing tempo in your favor. In a slower format this isn't necessarily a killer but in Legacy it's just bad.
You want 1 top to get your roll going and then the last thing you want to see is another, especially given that you're giving up tempo when you deploy the top and then fractionally in each of the first few uses of it.
With 4x Enlightened Tutor and 2x Sensei's Divining Top you have an excellent chance to get an early top out to get things started. With just 2 top you also have 2 more slots to either enhance the main effect you're running, with 2 extra counterspells or removal, or to add another silver bullet or 2 to the mix.
This is a CounterTop deck!!! When it comes down to it the risk of drawing 2 is less that the risk of not getting it at all. Look at the cards in this deck. Without the countertop combo it's not very good, But with it it's awesome. This doesn't seem like a hard concept to me, what's the issue? I'm sure Zvi tests for worlds. He came to the conclusion that it was better. Seems like Carlos Santiago, AJ Sacher, and Gerry Tompson also got the memo. If you can make a decent arguement that never getting Sensei's Divining Top is better than drawing 2 then we can talk. I really don't think you can. It is amazing. I know this deck has Enlightened Tutor but you want to use them on your "bullet" cards as much as possible. I'm not saying that 2 Tops makes the deck trash, it's just a step in the wrong direction.
I personally wouldn't go over 3 tops in a counterbalance deck. Whether or not 2 is too low I do not know, as even some of the decks you linked run only 2. One of them even has only one top. I decided to find out the average number of tops used in each deck out of the 11 that you linked. Turns out to be about 3 (2.9 to be exact).
wow, Thats a lot less than i thought. I think it's due to very few people playing it. If you must, go ahead and move it, but i think it will be coming back.
Um... every deck from 2010 is just Thopter Combo (which are only 4), which should get its own thread anyway. The other decks are from 2006-2008 and are random versions of U/W Landstill, Dreadstill and Counterbalance. Are you seriously contending that decks as varied as those should be put in the same thread just because they use 4 Enlightened Tutor?
Decks that use 4 Enlightened Tutors and look to control are fair game in this thread I think. Once we get to the point that a particular direction has been established then I think it's okay to begin narrowing acceptable lists.
I also think this should be in Developing Competitive not Proven Competitive since we obviously have nothing like a standard list that is being refined at this point. I thought Proven Competitive was for lists known to do well and refinements thereof, not for concepts under development.
Decks that use 4 Enlightened Tutors and look to control are fair game in this thread I think.
But why?! There's no such thing as "Enlightened Tutor Control", not any more than there's "Mystical Tutor Combo" at least. Should we make a "conceptual" thread to gather all decks that run 4x Mystical Tutor too? What for?!
Once we get to the point that a particular direction has been established then I think it's okay to begin narrowing acceptable lists.
But what "particular direction" could Enlightened Tutor possibly point us towards? A deck with artifacts and/or enchantments in it?
Obviously, ETutor isn't the starting point - the CounterTop lock is the starting point, though some builds may find ETutor a useful addition. It can also be useful in other decks like The Mighty Quinn, but that's no reason to make a thread about it. It doesn't define anything.
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Well, maybe that the point. A deck topic called Enlightened Tutor Control is too broad to warrant a place in Proven Competitive when the initial post doesn't even have a specific list associated with it, instead substituting a laundry list of other competitive decks from several different archetypes.
There should be a specific list in the initial post that we can evaluate and work off of, whether that's a UW Landstill or a Dreadstill or a Fish variant. Until there is a single list to look at we're basically doing a [SCD] Enlightened Tutor thread essentially. To be fair what we're working off of is the combo of Counterbalance and Enlightened Tutor since those are the two mainstay cards in every list in the original post.
But why?! There's no such thing as "Enlightened Tutor Control", not any more than there's "Mystical Tutor Combo" at least. Should we make a "conceptual" thread to gather all decks that run 4x Mystical Tutor too? What for?!
But what "particular direction" could Enlightened Tutor possibly point us towards? A deck with artifacts and/or enchantments in it?
Obviously, ETutor isn't the starting point - the CounterTop lock is the starting point, though some builds may find ETutor a useful addition. It can also be useful in other decks like The Mighty Quinn, but that's no reason to make a thread about it. It doesn't define anything.
Nowhere does it say that every deck with ETutor falls under this. It says CounterTop is 100% needed. It's an Artifact/Enchantment based control deck.
Nowhere does it say that every deck with ETutor falls under this. It says CounterTop is 100% needed. It's an Artifact/Enchantment based control deck.
So then it's really CounterTop innit? Just like Ad Nauseam Tendrils is really Ad Nauseam Tendrils, and The Epic Storm is really The Epic Storm. My point is that there's a reason it's called Ad Nauseam Tendrils and not Mystical Tutor Tendrils, just like there's a reason it's called CounterTop and not Enlightened Balance or some such.
If you post a deck in Proven Competitive with some catch-all name like Enlightened Tutor Control, that's really a CounterTop variant, there has to be something to support that Enlightened Tutor was somehow the defining card that took it over the Top (excuse the pun). There's nothing to suggest that Dreadstill with ETutor is better than Dreadstill without ETutor, or that UGw Balanced Threshold with ETutor is better than one without etc.
If what you're really trying to do is to experimentally optimize the efficiency of CounterTop through the use of Enlightened Tutor - and see where that path takes you - that's fine, but it's not even a well defined deck yet, let alone proven competitive. If this is what you're aiming for, I'd be happy to give some input though - in the development forum.
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This deck is competitive. Kyle Dorgan has put up repeated strong results with it @ Jupiter Games. In addition, being one of the few undefeated decks day 1 at GP Madrid has more credence than top8ing 100 tournies with 50 people or less.
In testing it is powerful, versatile, and extremely hard to play.
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yes, but thats why it should be called thopter combo or something similar, not e.tutor control. i personaly vote to either make a new thread with the proper name and primer, or realy revamp this one.
either way i think "a" primer for c.top/enlightened tutor/SWORD/THOPTER should be here. just my 2 cents.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
The problem is that it's a very small part of the deck. If i take out the thopter combo and play painters servant+grindstone, Tarmogoyf, or just plan on winning with Jace, it's still the same deck it just has a differant win condition. The only reason to not call it CounterTop is because there are a lot of decks that are defined by this combo. I think defining a deck by something that is unneeded is just a bad idea. If someone would like to come up with a better name for the deck, I'd edit it in, but i think Enlightened Tutor Control explains that is a Artifact/Enchantment based control deck better than anything i've heard yet.
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
23 lands
0 creatures
1 Back to Basics
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Tormod's Crypt
37 other spells
Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
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Introduction
UW(x) ThopterBalance has, as many decks, a couple of different ways to be built, and thus played. In general, it's a UW(x)-deck with the following 5 archetype-defining cards, which differs it from UW(x) Stoneblade:
In addition to these cards, you find the traditional blue control-package with Force of Will, Brainstorm, Mental Misstep and for the most part Jace, the Mind Sculptor. In white, you will find Swords to Plowshares and Humility or Moat as a target for Enlightened Tutor.
After these cards, of which not all are 4-ofs in every list, you will for the most part find singleton artifacts and enchantments to tutor for, Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull, additional blue draw/filtering, Vendillion Clique and/or Dark Confidant.
Example decklist
4x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Polluted Delta
1x Academy Ruins
1x Karakas
1x Tolaria West
1x Wasteland
5x Island
1x Plains
Instants (18)
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Force of Will
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Mental Misstep
2x Ponder
Artifacts (9)
4x Sensei´s Divining Top
2x Thopter Foundry
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Engineered Explosives
Enchantments (6)
4x Counterbalance
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Moat
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Tormod´s Crypt
1x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Dark Confidant
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Peacekeeper
1x Energy Flux
2x Perish
1x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Vendillion Clique
1x Sundial of the Infinite
1.
Use Mental Misstep, Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will to stunt your opponents game plan. Set up your hand and board with Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top Depending on the build and the matchup, the gameplan of the deck varies. In general, you can assume it to be one of the two below:
2.a
Blank some, or all, of your opponents cards. This is done in a variety of ways:
-not playing creatures that turn on your opponents removal
-establishing Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top to blank your opponents 1- and 2-drops, and often higher ones thanks to Enlightened Tutor and Brainstorm in response to spells
-playing Ensnaring Bridge / Humility / Moat / Peacekeeper, locking down the battlefield
-various silverbullets, often found in the sideboard. Examples include Ethersworn Canonist, Energy Flux, Sundial of the Infinite, Pithing Needle and Relic of Progenitus
3.a
Play, resolve and protect either Jace or Thopter Foundry. If you use JTMS to find the combo, or Foundry to protect Jace (this is fairly rare) isn't cast in stone, but I strongly advise people to use JTMS to dig and not start +2ing it straight away unless you have total board-advantage
2.b
Make a game-winning threat with Dark Confidant (Bob from now on) or Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull" target="blank">Batterskull
3.b
Protect your threat with Misstep, FoW and Counterbalance until you either have dominating board-position, or won trough Batterskull-beats
Card Choises
Maindeck
To reiterate, the core of the deck is the following cards. The # in brackets represent the usual amount of this card played
Brainstorm (4)
This should need no explanation to anyone having played blue in Legacy
Enlightened Tutor (2-4)
This card works wonderfully in this deck. If it wasn't for the fact that it is card-disadvantage (meaning that several in your opening hand would run you out of steam quickly), every list would run 4. It allows you to run powerful singletons in your deck, counter spells with Counterbalance, shuffles for Top and makes the Foundry + Sword combo viable.
Mental Misstep (2-4)
This new contender for Legacy is here to stay. It is important to have access to this card to battle other Missteps, so that your Top resolves, but it naturally also deals with everything from Dark Ritual to Goblin Lackey. While it might seem counter intuitive to include Misstep when your gameplan resolves around resolving Counterbalance + Top, it's important to remember that nothing ever goes to plan. And if it does, you have a Top in play to make sure you don't draw it, Brainstorm in your deck to get rid of it, or simply FoW to pitch it to.
Sensei's Divining Top (3-4)
This card is excellent in furthering your game-plan, and most lists play the full set. In addition to working wonders with Counterbalance (which really makes it a necessity), it allows you to dig for the cards you need, be it a part of the combo, or just an answer to a threat.
Swords to Plowshares (4)
Very few lists play less than 4 StPs, and even fewer of those have a good reason not to. It's the best removal-spell in the game, hands-down, and essential to making sure you don't get beaten up by a bunch of Tarmogoyfs or Bobs.
Counterbalance (3-4)
This is what a lot of your deck resolves around, and thus should really not need a lot of explanation. There are a couple of "tricks" you should be aware of though, which I will list near the end of this.
Sword of the Meek (1)
You will not more than one of this. It is completely useless on it's own, and you really only want to see it after you've resolved Thopter Foundry.
Thopter Foundry (2)
The reason almost everyone is running 2 Thopter Foundry is three-fold.
First of all, it's not useless on it's own like Sword (see "Tricks").
Secondly, it pitches to FoW, and then you might want a backup in case you're forced to Force (pun very much intended).
Thirdly, if your first Foundry gets countered/destroyed, and Academy Ruins is nowhere near in sight, having the second copy to tutor up is very handy
Jace, the Mind Sculptor (1-2)
Your second win-condition, and a great multipurpose-tool. JTMS doesn't need much backup to single handedly win you the game. Problem is naturally that he costs 4, and you need to resolve him first. That's why few lists play more than two. With the amount of filtering in the deck, it's not unreasonably to expect seeing a Jace by turn 4, or when you really need it. In addition to being a nutty card-advantage-machine and "removal", he serves as a second win-condition in many decks.
Moat/Humility (1)
Almost every list runs one of these two, but pretty much none run both. They fulfill the same role in the deck, locking down your opponents board, and as you're not planning to have it destroyed there is no reason to run a backup. Which is the correct one to run can be argued a ton on, but that belongs to the rest of the forum.
Force of Will (4)
As in every other controlling blue deck, Force of Will makes an appearance. Much like Swords to Plowshares, you really need a good reason not to run 4, and even then you are probably wrong. This card is so important in some matchups, and carries it's weight in every other. Since the deck resolves around protecting certain pieces, it's important to actually have the protection when you need it. Later in the game, it provides a use for your excess Mental Missteps and Counterbalances, or just gets filtered away with Top or Brainstorm.
If you think you want less than 4, you should just side some or all out in the matchups where you think it will be bad. In game 1, you should really just be playing the full playset.
Engineered Explosives (1)
This is the most common singleton in the deck, after the usual suspects, and it's reasonable to suspect every list includes at least 1 copy somewhere in the 75. The uses this card has are endless, and it has merit in almost every matchup. It's synergy with Academy Ruins contributes further to it's power.
That should cover the cards that are included in pretty much every list. Below are options for the last slots, which defines your deck and your gameplan. Since there are so many, I won't provide an explanation for every card:
Chrome Mox
Path to Exile
Pithing Needle
Ponder
Relic of Progenitus
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare
Counterspell
Dark Confidant
Energy Field
Predict
Runed Halo
Standstill
Stoneforge Mystic
Back to Basics
Crucible of Worlds
Dark Tutelage
Ensnaring Bridge
Oblivion Ring
Thirst for Knowledge
Trinket Mage
Vendillion Clique
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Batterskull
Tezzeret the Seeker
Various equipment*
*not recommended. If you start playing more equipment than Sword of the Meek and Batterskull main it should also mean you're playing more creatures than just Stoneforge Mystic. That means Vendillion Clique, and probably Bob, and suddenly you're playing UW(x) Stoneblade with Counterbalance, Top and Enlightened Tutor. That's just trying to do too many things, and will not end well.
I probably forget some, but this should at least get you an idea of what options you have for the last few slots
Manabase
UW(x) ThopterBalance is in general UW-coloured, but almost always includes some other colored duals to make Engineered Explosives better and to play some of it's SB-cards. It often plays a high number of basics, to avoid getting completely ruined by Wasteland. Some builds also runs Back to Basics or Blood Moon.
The core of the manabase is the following:
-Some number of basic Islands
-One or two basic Plains
-Two or more Tundras
-Some off-colored blue dual
-4 Flooded Strand
-Some number of blue fetchlands
-One or two Academy Ruins
In addition to this, there are a number of options for "special lands":
-Karakas
You will never want to run more than one, since it's legendary, but as a singleton it gives you a great tool to deal with Emrakul, Vendillion Clique and Gaddock Teeg
-Seat of the Synod
Can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor, sacrificed to Foundry and dodges Choke. It doesn't dodge Wasteland and generic artifact-removal however, so not everyone plays it
-Tolaria West
Enables many of these "special lands" to be viable as singletons, while also dodging Choke. It's fairly awkward to play ordinarily, but it still taps for U like every other Island
-Wasteland
Very, very few lists play this as a 4-of, considering it's a control-deck, after all. But as a singleton, together with Tolaria West to find it and Crucible of Worlds, it can win the game for you on it's own.
-Mishra's Factory
You probably only want to run this if you run Humility, and not Moat. It puts a definitive strain on the manabase, but it's free a 2/2 that kicks ass along with Humility.
Sideboard
There is a ton of SB-options for UW(x) ThopterBalance, and explaining every single would require way too much space. Instead, I will briefly explain the "dude-plan", and list every possible (reasonable) SB-card for the deck.:
Arcane Labratory*
Aura of Silence
Back to Basics
Baneslayer Angel*
Batterskull
Bitterblossom*
Blood Moon
Blue Elemental Blast
Brittle Effigy*
Chalice of the Void*
Circle of Protection: Red
Control Magic*
Counterspell
Crucible of Worlds
Culling Scales*
Damping Matrix*
Dark Confidant
Dark Depths*
Dark Tutelage
Day of Judgement*
Disenchant*
Duress
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Energy Flux
Energy Field*
Engineered Plague
Engineered Explosives
Ensnaring Bridge
Epochrasite*
Ethersworn Canonist
Executioner's Capsule*
Execute*
Extirpate
Fact or Fiction*
Firespout
Future Sight
Glen Elendrea Archmage*
Ghostly Prison*
Grindstone
Guilty Conscience*
Hanna's Custody*
Helm of Obedience*
Hibernate*
Humility
Hydroblast
Isochron Scepter*
Jace Beleren*
Jace, Memory Adept*
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Journey to Nowhere*
Karmic Justice
Kitchen Finks
Legacy's Allure*
Leyline of Sanctity
Leyline of the Void*
Light of Day*
Lightning Bolt*
Meddling Mage
Meekstone*
Misdirection
Mystic Remora
Nature's Ruin*
Nether Void*
Nevinnyrral's Disk*
Nihil Spellbomb
Null Rod*
Oblivion Ring
Oblivion Stone*
Painter's Servant
Path to Exile
Peacekeeper
Perish
Phyrexian Arena
Phyrexian Metamorph
Phyrexian Revoker
Pithing Needle
Porphyry Nodes
Predict*
Propaganda
Pyroblast
Ratchet Bomb*
Red Elemental Blast
Relic of Progenitus
Rule of Law*
Runed Halo
Sacred Ground*
Sacred Mesa*
Scepter of Fugue*
Scrabbling Claws*
Seal of Cleansing
Seal of Doom*
Serenity
Slay*
Sower of Temptation*
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare
Submerge
Stifle*
Stoneforge Mystic
Stuffy Doll*
Sundial of the Infinite
Suppression Field*
Surgical Extraction*
Sword of X and Y*
Sylvan Library
Take Possesion*
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir*
Teferi's Response*
Tezzeret the Seeker
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
The Abyss
Thirst for Knowledge
Thoughtseize
Threads of Disloyalty
Tormod's Crypt
Torpor Orb*
Treachery*
Trinisphere*
Trinket Mage*
Umezawa's Jitte*
Vampire Hexmage*
Vedalken Shackles
Vendillion Clique
Warmth
Wash Out*
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Wrath of God
This should be a fairly comprehensive list of every blue/white/black – colored card, but it's quite likely I missed some green or red ones. Feel free to come with suggestions
The "dude-plan" is the idea of playing no real targets for Swords to Plowshares or other removal main, then siding in some number of creatures post-board. The usual candidates for this are Bob, Stoneforge Mystic and Vendillion Clique.
Tricks
There are a couple of basic things you should be familiar with when it comes to interactions between your cards when playing UW(x) ThopterBalance:
-If you are going to counter a spell with Force of Will, or another counterspell, you should always do it before your Counterbalance-abilety triggers. With paper-magic, you should be careful to announce that the ability is still on the stack when you play your counterspell
-You can naturally respond to your own Counterbalance triggering, be it to play Brainstorm, activate Top, play Enlightened Tutor or a combination of those
-You can stack the rearrange-ability of Top, then draw the top-card with it, then let your stacked ability resolve so that you can put Top another place than at the top
-You can stack the draw-ability of Top, then sacrifice it to Foundry to draw a card, and get a thopter (and a life!)
-You can sacrifice artifacts in play with Foundry in response to your Counterbalance triggering, then put the artifact on top of your library with Academy Ruins
-You can combine the two "tricks" above to get a free thopter (and a life!) given enough mana and the right cards. This works with Nihil Spellbomb too
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Why did you use a [Deck] tag when the first sentence describe this as a strategy and not a deck?
Apart from that, Enlightened Tutor has been suggested and used in CounterTop builds, even in Landstill variants. It's pretty good. ETutor might even enable you to make some sort of Bant CounterTop/Survival hybrid.
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The "[deck]" tag seemed to be on most of the good decks. I'm a go with the flow type of guy. "monkey see monkey do" or something like that
I don't know what that last thing was about. Are you suggesting that Bant CounterTop/Survival hybrid would be better fit in the proven competitive section?
Haikus Are Easy
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Haikus Are Easy
But Sometimes They Don't Make Sense
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(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
I think the threat base would need revamping but I could totally see a 1-of e. tutor greatly benefiting modern Bant countertop in certain (very highly developed) metas.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=13238
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16885
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17543
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=18270
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22356
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32848
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33979
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33980
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=5994
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=7818
The best finish is 1st in 178 with http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34468
wow, Thats a lot less than i thought. I think it's due to very few people playing it. If you must, go ahead and move it, but i think it will be coming back.
Haikus Are Easy
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4 Counterbalance is livable even though you can easily find them when you need them because tutors and Counterbalance are a nice combo.
This is Zvi Mowshowitz's Landstill with Enlightened Tutors from Worlds 2007 - http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12315. It's a wonderful example of how Enlightened Tutor and Counterbalance can work with silver bullet enchantments and artifacts to create a powerful whole. And yes he uses 4 tops but he's Zvi and can get away with that.
If you have 2 top just play them, then when you have a shuffle effect (your example has 11+ crucible to bring fetchlands back) just draw a card and shuffle 1 back in the deck. As for counterbalance, Extras are usually Force of Will fodder.
Haikus Are Easy
But Sometimes They Don't Make Sense
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Tops are not answers or threats. Drawing into multiples of them slow down both your response time and your ability to swing tempo in your favor. In a slower format this isn't necessarily a killer but in Legacy it's just bad.
You want 1 top to get your roll going and then the last thing you want to see is another, especially given that you're giving up tempo when you deploy the top and then fractionally in each of the first few uses of it.
With 4x Enlightened Tutor and 2x Sensei's Divining Top you have an excellent chance to get an early top out to get things started. With just 2 top you also have 2 more slots to either enhance the main effect you're running, with 2 extra counterspells or removal, or to add another silver bullet or 2 to the mix.
Haikus Are Easy
But Sometimes They Don't Make Sense
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Um... every deck from 2010 is just Thopter Combo (which are only 4), which should get its own thread anyway. The other decks are from 2006-2008 and are random versions of U/W Landstill, Dreadstill and Counterbalance. Are you seriously contending that decks as varied as those should be put in the same thread just because they use 4 Enlightened Tutor?
Proven Competitive FAIL.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I also think this should be in Developing Competitive not Proven Competitive since we obviously have nothing like a standard list that is being refined at this point. I thought Proven Competitive was for lists known to do well and refinements thereof, not for concepts under development.
But why?! There's no such thing as "Enlightened Tutor Control", not any more than there's "Mystical Tutor Combo" at least. Should we make a "conceptual" thread to gather all decks that run 4x Mystical Tutor too? What for?!
But what "particular direction" could Enlightened Tutor possibly point us towards? A deck with artifacts and/or enchantments in it?
Obviously, ETutor isn't the starting point - the CounterTop lock is the starting point, though some builds may find ETutor a useful addition. It can also be useful in other decks like The Mighty Quinn, but that's no reason to make a thread about it. It doesn't define anything.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
There should be a specific list in the initial post that we can evaluate and work off of, whether that's a UW Landstill or a Dreadstill or a Fish variant. Until there is a single list to look at we're basically doing a [SCD] Enlightened Tutor thread essentially. To be fair what we're working off of is the combo of Counterbalance and Enlightened Tutor since those are the two mainstay cards in every list in the original post.
Um... there is... It's called Ad Nauseam Tendrils. It has 2 color storm decks, 5 color storm decks, and everything in between. They are not the same deck, they do have about 35% same cards, but that's not very much.
Nowhere does it say that every deck with ETutor falls under this. It says CounterTop is 100% needed. It's an Artifact/Enchantment based control deck.
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So then it's really CounterTop innit? Just like Ad Nauseam Tendrils is really Ad Nauseam Tendrils, and The Epic Storm is really The Epic Storm. My point is that there's a reason it's called Ad Nauseam Tendrils and not Mystical Tutor Tendrils, just like there's a reason it's called CounterTop and not Enlightened Balance or some such.
If you post a deck in Proven Competitive with some catch-all name like Enlightened Tutor Control, that's really a CounterTop variant, there has to be something to support that Enlightened Tutor was somehow the defining card that took it over the Top (excuse the pun). There's nothing to suggest that Dreadstill with ETutor is better than Dreadstill without ETutor, or that UGw Balanced Threshold with ETutor is better than one without etc.
If what you're really trying to do is to experimentally optimize the efficiency of CounterTop through the use of Enlightened Tutor - and see where that path takes you - that's fine, but it's not even a well defined deck yet, let alone proven competitive. If this is what you're aiming for, I'd be happy to give some input though - in the development forum.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
In testing it is powerful, versatile, and extremely hard to play.
E-Mail: [email]rancorous@gmail.com[/email]
AIM: Rancorous Fool
either way i think "a" primer for c.top/enlightened tutor/SWORD/THOPTER should be here. just my 2 cents.
Haikus Are Easy
But Sometimes They Don't Make Sense
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Haikus Are Easy
But Sometimes They Don't Make Sense
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I was trying to find more info about the deck just because it was promoted in one article on Scg.com.
Instead, this thread is fluff. If you're upset about it just leave the thread alone and it will eventually wither. Otherwise, post something on-topic.
Sorry for breaking my own rule, but jeez...
J
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
23 lands
0 creatures
1 Back to Basics
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Tormod's Crypt
37 other spells
Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon