Well that is true. I just wonder how they'd do with Ugr. I've never seen Rood say he's tried it over at The Source. Though I'll admit I came late to the Dreadstill thread party over there and haven't read through it all.
He's tried it, he admits it's probably better, he just has a combination of being too lazy to change his deck, not currently owning goyfs, and feeling like things that aren't broken don't need to be fixed.
He's tried it, he admits it's probably better, he just has a combination of being too lazy to change his deck, not currently owning goyfs, and feeling like things that aren't broken don't need to be fixed.
Well that last part is obviously true as just looking at deckcheck he has a metric ****-ton of top8s with the deck. And I will admit. My increased vulnerability to moon effects since adapting the Ugr build has hurt a lot. Because one of the local guys only has D-Stompy. And I've had problems after losing a die roll and a turn 1 Blood Moon.
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5th is just a guy snapping his fingers. Maybe Nicol Bolas can get mana that way, but I can't.
Well that last part is obviously true as just looking at deckcheck he has a metric ****-ton of top8s with the deck. And I will admit. My increased vulnerability to moon effects since adapting the Ugr build has hurt a lot. Because one of the local guys only has D-Stompy. And I've had problems after losing a die roll and a turn 1 Blood Moon.
Your having trouble against Dragon Stompy!? I haven't dropped a game to that deck in like 4 months. Dreadnought Stifle, good game. Hell, Island pass good game.
Your having trouble against Dragon Stompy!? I haven't dropped a game to that deck in like 4 months. Dreadnought Stifle, good game. Hell, Island pass good game.
lol yeah I know. I feel like a nubsauce. I can win pretty much any other match up on a weekly basis handily. But for some reason D-stompy is like 50/50 for me. sux0rz my nutz0rz
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5th is just a guy snapping his fingers. Maybe Nicol Bolas can get mana that way, but I can't.
lol yeah I know. I feel like a nubsauce. I can win pretty much any other match up on a weekly basis handily. But for some reason D-stompy is like 50/50 for me. sux0rz my nutz0rz
Just Get Engineered Explosives into your hand as soon as possible. Mana Denial is another excellent strategy, you can lock them under their own trinispheres very easily. Also Standstill is incredible against them since they have to break it. What is your current List/SB?
Actually on that note, I am currently running 3 Spell Snare and 2 Daze, the reason for this is that as long as my opponent are playing around Daze, then Daze is doing its job. I feel 2 is the right number because then it comes up enough for your opponent to know it is there and therefore they play around it but not enough that it clogs up your hand.
On the topic of Fire/ice, I've tested it and its excellent in heavy aggro metas but overall I've found them to be worse than the top, counterbalance, and spell snare that you cut for them.
On the topic of Fire/ice, I've tested it and its excellent in heavy aggro metas but overall I've found them to be worse than the top, counterbalance, and spell snare that you cut for them.
Agreed. Nevertheless. Red is almost required as it shores up swarm aggro match ups from the board. Clasm and Firespout are crucial.
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5th is just a guy snapping his fingers. Maybe Nicol Bolas can get mana that way, but I can't.
Just an update Myself, Scott Blumental (VsTheWorld on the Source), Rodney Hannigan (Roodmistah on the source), and Rich Shay (TheAtogLord on the source/manadrain) All Took Dreadstill to the Boston 5k Tournament yesterday
I went 5-3 and came in thirty somethingth
Rodney went 6-2 and came in 17th.
Rich Shay went 7-0-1 in Swiss and then beat Eli Kassis in top 8 and then lost in top 4 to Canadian Thresh.
Scott won the event going 6-1-1 in Swiss then beat Plainswalker Landstill in top 8, RGW Zoo in top 4 and Canadian Threshold in the finals.
Rodney Played his Ur List while Scott and myself Both played my latest posted Ugr List and Rich played my list with like a five card difference, he cut spell snare and a top and a counterbalance for some maindeck burn to help with the Zoo and Merfolk matchups.
What do you sacrifice when you play the nought? I don't get that part do you sac himself? Or you stifle him? I was trying to read in the primer just can't find the answer, thanks
What do you sacrifice when you play the nought? I don't get that part do you sac himself? Or you stifle him? I was trying to read in the primer just can't find the answer, thanks
Play Nought, pass priority, Nought comes into play and his sacrifice trigger goes on the stack. You stifle that triggered ability.
There have been some out there. The general consensus though is either you cut Green or Red, as 4 colors is too much of a strain on the mana base. Of course, by cutting Green you lose Goyf, and by cutting Red you lose any sort of sweeper like Pyroclasm or Firespout. Which is generally our shore up against our worst match ups in Fish and Goblins. That being said, it has been tested a lot by the peeps over at The Source. Confidant does give ridiculous card advantage. But generally adding black doesn't give us any other cards aside from Bob.
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5th is just a guy snapping his fingers. Maybe Nicol Bolas can get mana that way, but I can't.
Well said sir, well said.
Black also allows you to run a single Executioner's Capsule and allows plague out of the board, but as Greiver said, The sweepers are just better against Zoo and Tribal. Also by cutting red you lose Red Elemental Blast which is nothing short of necessary against Merfolk. Basically Dark Confidant despite being amazing doesn't make up for what you would need to cut for it.
Well said sir, well said.
Black also allows you to run a single Executioner's Capsule and allows plague out of the board, but as Greiver said, The sweepers are just better against Zoo and Tribal. Also by cutting red you lose Red Elemental Blast which is nothing short of necessary against Merfolk. Basically Dark Confidant despite being amazing doesn't make up for what you would need to cut for it.
That makes sense. Pretty much every card in the list seems awesome, and the list includes pretty much everything that I want to play:
Dreadnought + Stifle
Counterbalance + Top
Standstill
Force of Will
Tarmogoyph
Thats a lot of the best things you can do in the format, all in one deck. Confidant is one of the only other really strong things you can do that actually interests me that is missing, and combos so well with Top, but I dont think I would want to cut a color for it. Losing Goyph for it seems like a wash, and also loses firespout. The red seems pretty essential for beating fish and other aggro.
Is it really damaging to the manabase to add black? I would think that with fetchlands and duals that you could pretty much slide in any colors you want.
Also, Fire/Ice?? This seems bad to me, fire seems useful for killing Lackey/Bob/etc, but I would rather pay 1 mana to do this, Ice just doesnt seem strong enough to warrant having to pay 2 for Fire's effect.
Why does anyone maindeck less than 4 counterbalance? It is amazing!
What do you guys think of this sideboard:
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Blue Elemental Blast (and/or Hydroblast)
3 Red Elemental Blast (any/or Pyroblast)
2 Submerge (vs decks such as the mirror, its very awesome when used in response to a shuffle effect!)
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
I'm unsure about Tormod's vs Relic of Progenitus, and whether it is useful to have more of these, is the one I trinket mage for enough?
With the current explosion of Zoo and Merfolk I felt that Dreadstill's sideboard needed an overhaul...
My conclusions after excessive testing in the "New Meta"
Necessary:
3(+) REB/Pyro *Good against Aggro Control and RIDICULOUS against Merfolk
3(+) Sweepers (I personally think Firespout is just all around the best)
3(+) Krosan Grip *Counterbalance is still an issue despite its recent decline
That leaves us with 6 slots to fill:
Things that can fill the slots:
-Creature Steal: Sower, threads, etc
-Graveyard hate: Crypt/Relic
-Spot removal: Submerge, BEB, Etc
-Utility: Crucible, Pithing Needle, Annul, Etc
-Additional Artifact/enchant destruction: Trygon, Ancient Grudge, etc
What I currently have together is:
3 REB
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 BEB
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
A few things to ponder:
-How important is graveyard hate right now?
-Is BEB really necessary, It's excellent against Gobs, and its decent against Zoo, but would Submerge be better since Zoo is much more common?
-With the recent success that Landstill has been having should slots be devoted to that match up or should we just let Geoff and Tariq do their thing?
This is the sideboard I am thinking about switching to, it has been tested limitedly, but it needs further testing...
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Submerge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ancient Grudge
I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread and maybe those that have tried it can comment. But, what about Lightning Bolt over over BEB in the board? Blast is "easier" to cast, but bolt is more versatile and answers most of the same problems. It also hits Merfolk.
Lightning Bolt handles Qasali Pridemage. If you had Firespout and Lightning Bolt in the sideboard it would help a lot against the Zoo matchups that are tough right now.
Quote from J.V. (ME) »
Yeah, I actually really like that idea, I think I'm going to give this sideboard a try:
3 REB
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle*
*might be 2 GY hate, I'm not sure yet.
With this I would also go up to 3 maindeck Volcanic Island.
On a side note I played Ugr Dreadstill and went 5-2
Round 1: Merfolk, Loss:1-2 (He may have top 8'd he was 5-1 going into the last round)
Round 2: Merfolk, Won 2-0
Round 3: Mono Green Stompy, Won 2-0
Round 4: [Brassman] NLBrass, Lost 0-2 (despite being an 0-2 loss both games were insanely close, some of the funnest magic I've ever played!)
Round 5: Reanimator, Won 2-0
Round 6: [Slay] Zoo, Won 2-0
Round 7: Mirrorish, Won 2-1
Noncreature Spells:30
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Snare
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Daze
1 Trickbind
Sideboard:15
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle
Post Tournament Conclusions:
The Main deck is damn near optimal, The only change that I keep going back an forth between is cutting a Factory for a 3rd Flooded Strand, or Leaving the 4th Factory in, I'm not entirely sure yet.
As for the sideboard, Lightning Bolt was UN****INGBELIEVABLE! It was excellent against Zoo and Merfolk.
Pithing Needle on the other hand was extremely underwhelming. I'm not sure what those two slots are going to be, they may go back to being Graveyard hate, but as I stated earlier, I'm not sure they're necessary.
*wow salvation sucks, way to "bleep out" my quote of myself.
** Nah, I'm just bitter because it wont let me just post quotes...
J.V, I am thinking of running that list, minus 1 Counterbalance and 1 Top for 2 Maindeck Lightning Bolts. Any thoughts on that? (And running the 6th fetchland over the 4th factory).
Sideboard I am thinking (I move 2 bolts main so that frees space):
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormods Crypt OR Relic of Progenitus
Is needle really that bad? Seems good to have 1 with Trinket mage, same with 1 graveyard hate card.
I also kindof want a couple submerge, it seems so good against any deck that plays tarmogoyf. (Especially if used in response to a shuffle effect!)
Needle is never really awful, I just never was in a situation were I was like "YES! Pithing Needle" As for the mainboard I'm not sure that Lightning Bolt is better than the CB/T you would cut for it in any matches except Dragon Stompy (Which is a bye anyways) and Merfolk.
As for the mainboard I'm not sure that Lightning Bolt is better than the CB/T you would cut for it in any matches except Dragon Stompy (Which is a bye anyways) and Merfolk.
Counterbalance pretty much only counters 0-2 cost in this deck, pre-board. Lightning bolt (or some form of removal) seems very helpful for many matches. Bolt your 1 drop and spell snare your 2 drop is huge. Also, bolt your creature at the end of your turn and then play out standstill on an empty board.
Maybe cutting something else for bolt would be better than counterbalance? The deck that got 3rd at the recent legacy 5K ran bolts main instead of spell snare, so its certainly viable. (I love spell snare though). I really like that putting a couple bolts main frees up sideboard space, since there is a ton of stuff I want to fit in there.
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He's tried it, he admits it's probably better, he just has a combination of being too lazy to change his deck, not currently owning goyfs, and feeling like things that aren't broken don't need to be fixed.
C.I.#:5
Well that last part is obviously true as just looking at deckcheck he has a metric ****-ton of top8s with the deck. And I will admit. My increased vulnerability to moon effects since adapting the Ugr build has hurt a lot. Because one of the local guys only has D-Stompy. And I've had problems after losing a die roll and a turn 1 Blood Moon.
Your having trouble against Dragon Stompy!? I haven't dropped a game to that deck in like 4 months. Dreadnought Stifle, good game. Hell, Island pass good game.
C.I.#:5
lol yeah I know. I feel like a nubsauce. I can win pretty much any other match up on a weekly basis handily. But for some reason D-stompy is like 50/50 for me. sux0rz my nutz0rz
Just Get Engineered Explosives into your hand as soon as possible. Mana Denial is another excellent strategy, you can lock them under their own trinispheres very easily. Also Standstill is incredible against them since they have to break it. What is your current List/SB?
C.I.#:5
The use of only one daze confuses the opponent and tricks them into playing around it
Standard
Blightning Blossum
Legacy
Progenitals Threshold
On the topic of Fire/ice, I've tested it and its excellent in heavy aggro metas but overall I've found them to be worse than the top, counterbalance, and spell snare that you cut for them.
C.I.#:5
Agreed. Nevertheless. Red is almost required as it shores up swarm aggro match ups from the board. Clasm and Firespout are crucial.
I went 5-3 and came in thirty somethingth
Rodney went 6-2 and came in 17th.
Rich Shay went 7-0-1 in Swiss and then beat Eli Kassis in top 8 and then lost in top 4 to Canadian Thresh.
Scott won the event going 6-1-1 in Swiss then beat Plainswalker Landstill in top 8, RGW Zoo in top 4 and Canadian Threshold in the finals.
Rodney Played his Ur List while Scott and myself Both played my latest posted Ugr List and Rich played my list with like a five card difference, he cut spell snare and a top and a counterbalance for some maindeck burn to help with the Zoo and Merfolk matchups.
C.I.#:5
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower Of Temptation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
1 Fire / Ice
4 Force Of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 Ponder
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
3 Island
2 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
3 Firespout
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
6 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
Noncreature Spells:
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower Of Temptation
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
Scott's First place tournament report can be found here.
C.I.#:5
Play Nought, pass priority, Nought comes into play and his sacrifice trigger goes on the stack. You stifle that triggered ability.
Black also allows you to run a single Executioner's Capsule and allows plague out of the board, but as Greiver said, The sweepers are just better against Zoo and Tribal. Also by cutting red you lose Red Elemental Blast which is nothing short of necessary against Merfolk. Basically Dark Confidant despite being amazing doesn't make up for what you would need to cut for it.
C.I.#:5
That makes sense. Pretty much every card in the list seems awesome, and the list includes pretty much everything that I want to play:
Dreadnought + Stifle
Counterbalance + Top
Standstill
Force of Will
Tarmogoyph
Thats a lot of the best things you can do in the format, all in one deck. Confidant is one of the only other really strong things you can do that actually interests me that is missing, and combos so well with Top, but I dont think I would want to cut a color for it. Losing Goyph for it seems like a wash, and also loses firespout. The red seems pretty essential for beating fish and other aggro.
Is it really damaging to the manabase to add black? I would think that with fetchlands and duals that you could pretty much slide in any colors you want.
Also, Fire/Ice?? This seems bad to me, fire seems useful for killing Lackey/Bob/etc, but I would rather pay 1 mana to do this, Ice just doesnt seem strong enough to warrant having to pay 2 for Fire's effect.
Why does anyone maindeck less than 4 counterbalance? It is amazing!
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Blue Elemental Blast (and/or Hydroblast)
3 Red Elemental Blast (any/or Pyroblast)
2 Submerge (vs decks such as the mirror, its very awesome when used in response to a shuffle effect!)
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
I'm unsure about Tormod's vs Relic of Progenitus, and whether it is useful to have more of these, is the one I trinket mage for enough?
C.I.#:5
*wow salvation sucks, way to "bleep out" my quote of myself.
** Nah, I'm just bitter because it wont let me just post quotes...
C.I.#:5
Sideboard I am thinking (I move 2 bolts main so that frees space):
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormods Crypt OR Relic of Progenitus
Is needle really that bad? Seems good to have 1 with Trinket mage, same with 1 graveyard hate card.
I also kindof want a couple submerge, it seems so good against any deck that plays tarmogoyf. (Especially if used in response to a shuffle effect!)
C.I.#:5
Counterbalance pretty much only counters 0-2 cost in this deck, pre-board. Lightning bolt (or some form of removal) seems very helpful for many matches. Bolt your 1 drop and spell snare your 2 drop is huge. Also, bolt your creature at the end of your turn and then play out standstill on an empty board.
Maybe cutting something else for bolt would be better than counterbalance? The deck that got 3rd at the recent legacy 5K ran bolts main instead of spell snare, so its certainly viable. (I love spell snare though). I really like that putting a couple bolts main frees up sideboard space, since there is a ton of stuff I want to fit in there.