Anyone got ideas on how to improve this? the main idea is to use the accelerators to pump out big stuff like Rith, who is the main win-con, and Godsire's (secondary win-con), and Meglonoth who is just to be a beater.
somethig i was thinking of was replacing one of the accelerators (maybe harrow?) with Luminarch Ascencion. Also was thinking of finding a place for Garruk. any suggestions and advice are the welcome.
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ugh. I can see why you'd want to play with the big guys, but they don't have much protection, your acceleration won't do much fast enough, and you haven't got much of a control game plan. If you can adjust that, then maybe it could work. first and foremost:
how do you get him out through a counterspell barrage?
how do you deal with the tons of spot removal and wastelands that see play?
how do you control the game long enough to get away with playing him?
if you can answer those questions, then perhaps you might get away with playing rith and/or meglonoth. However, you're still going to be in a world of hurt because you're slow in colors that don't control well and any form of combo is going to eat you alive. You could augment this by playing man mana (birds of paradise, noble hierarch, etc.) and blood moon effects to slow down decks (these have to hit play t2 at the latest, though. along with chalice of the void or somesuch answer to counter early spot removal. you could play path to exile and swords to plowshares yourself (in fact, your'e in white and should be playing them). You could consider hate bears like gaddock teeg to slow down your opponents some. OR you could go with natural order or survival of the fittest as a way to drop him sooner.
are all decent ways to slow down combo quite a bit without hurting you too much. Krosan grip for when you just need to blow up an artifact or enchantment in the board is a good idea. these are just a few of the ideas you can use. You need to get that game plan solidified.
Ive runned into a RG mana ramp deck that smashed face with big behemoths a couple of weeks ago. i dont have the complete decklist but I remember it had BoP, Orcish Lumberjack, and Sakura-tribe Elder as ascelerants, and Garruk, Siege-gang Commander, and Primal Command all MD (wich sucked cause I played The nightmare Effect). I thought it might give you a good starting point.
Also:
The Spellbreaker is a must, counterspells are the bane of midrange fatties.
You are going to need some protective fat, Maybe Plated Slagwurm?
ugh. I can see why you'd want to play with the big guys, but they don't have much protection, your acceleration won't do much fast enough, and you haven't got much of a control game plan. If you can adjust that, then maybe it could work. first and foremost:
how do you get him out through a counterspell barrage?
didn't think of that, but someone did suggest spellbreaker behemoth, which is a T3 drop, and since my big guys, who are my win-cons, are 6 and 8 respectivly, so i think it will be okay. though Force of will will always be a problem.
how do you deal with the tons of spot removal and wastelands that see play?
i was taking a note from mythic bant with this. try to drop more threats than they have removal. now that i think about it, thats a bad idea as i dont have exalted, so i was considering something like Spearbreaker Behemoth, but if i play mark of asylum, i would only have to worry about destroy target creature and global effects. i was also playing privileged position, so all my stuff had 1 way shroud anyway.
and on the wastelands, notice i have only 6 non-basic and then toss in that Trace of Abundance gives a land shroud, so i'm not really worried even without the changes i made.
how do you control the game long enough to get away with playing him?
T1 Forest, BoP
T2 Land, Trace/fertile on the new land, then i have mana for removal or another Bop
T3 land, Spellbreaker, or if i played a second BoP T2, either rith or meglonoth. could also play spellbreaker and trace/fertile if i played teh BoP T2, depends on the MU and hand.
as you can see, i don't really need to control the board, i will own the board. maybe its not as good as some broken T1 combo, but more than good enough to work.
if you can answer those questions, then perhaps you might get away with playing rith and/or meglonoth. However, you're still going to be in a world of hurt because you're slow in colors that don't control well and any form of combo is going to eat you alive. You could augment this by playing man mana (birds of paradise, noble hierarch, etc.) and blood moon effects to slow down decks (these have to hit play t2 at the latest, though. along with chalice of the void or somesuch answer to counter early spot removal. you could play path to exile and swords to plowshares yourself (in fact, your'e in white and should be playing them). You could consider hate bears like gaddock teeg to slow down your opponents some. OR you could go with natural order or survival of the fittest as a way to drop him sooner.
are all decent ways to slow down combo quite a bit without hurting you too much. Krosan grip for when you just need to blow up an artifact or enchantment in the board is a good idea. these are just a few of the ideas you can use. You need to get that game plan solidified.
though the rest of this does give very me some excellent ideas on what to put in. thanks.
what do people think of tossing in some Mark of Asylums? can't kill my creatures though damage and cant counter (due to spellbreaker), so all they can hope to do is overrun or play bigger stuff (assuming no mill).
looks nice to me. mana base looks okay, only non-basics are fetchs so wasteland and such shouldn't be much of a problem. got 12 peices of removal, more excelleration and a way to help stop counter spell decks, and global evasion for my stuff only. i think its mostly solid, a few problems such as force of will still get me and slow me down and any countering can stop me from playing my evasion enchants, all of which is bad.
evasion enchantments are a waste of time, sir. if a 5/5 uncounterable doesn't spell doom to those decks, then you're in a heap of trouble. privileged position is too much of a casual card for my liking. I'm glad you added in the removal package, but I still think you might want to go with swords to plowshares over the paths and paths over the incinerates. reasoning? you need to remove creatures, usually called tarmogoyf, and bolt/incinerate aren't often enough to do it. I'd rather have them gain life in your style of deck than gaining a land, so paths should be run only as a minimum. If you're going to run fertile ground..then lose the fertile ground and run utopia sprawl instead. It hits t1 and goes on a forest, so that should be your primary concern.
now, on to mark of asylum....my question for you is this?
what damage based spells can actually kill a rith the awakener, let alone the godsire, that see play? the answer is 2 and 3 lightning bolts, respectively. If they're using that many bolts to kill a creature, you're going to win sir. the removal most commonly played is either exile (swords to plowshares) or damageless (snuff out). you're better off with running a few more big beaters. Now, if you're still deadset on big dudes, then here's a cheeky little suggestion. Kodama of the North tree in place of godsire. I'd dare say I'd like to see your opponents take a chunk out of him. Otherwise, use Uril, the Miststalker
Played a R/U counterspell, the evasion, when it stuck, kept him from removing the Spellbreaker, which when spellbreaker hit, and the evasion stuck, i won everytime.
utopia sprawl remindes me of Quirion Elves and i think it has the same problems. there is better stuff. for a T1 drop, i would rather a bird and do something like this:
T1 Forest, Birds
T2 land, tap birds and forest to play either fertile or trace on the new land, tap the new land to play fertile/trace on the forest.
T3 i have 4 mana minimum (if the remove birds and i dont play a land)
I have actually done this quite consistently.
Now mark, you're right, its a crap card for this. it would save me from the occasional double bolt or some other damage causing removal, but all my stuff should have 1 way shroud anyway.
Kodama and Uril aren't that bad of suggestions, but Godsire stays in. Maybe its the timmy in me, but he is just fun to drop turn 5/6.
oh no sir!!! not howling mine!!! use sylvan library, harmonize, sensei's divining top, or something else!!! there are a lot of powerful card draw effects in green if you just take a bit of a look. There are also various equipment that do a pretty good job, as well. You really do *NOT* want to give your opponent any kind of advantage. You're slow enough already. That said, I like the idea of the deck and am glad to see you're finally getting down some stuff to stomp on through with.
yeah thanks for the other cards man. its just thats what i had on hand at that time. it does lead to some problems, was playing a suicide black and he drew just what he needed to kill me that turn instead of the other way around cause of them.
my only question is do you think the library is better or the top? i kinda like top better, but in order to draw whatever, it needs to go on top instead of the library which doesnt dig as deep but also doenst really have anything bad cause i can get the best of the top 2 cards, or can draw both for 4 life.
also, is there anyway to fit some lifegain into the deck, maybe in the draw? i get this feeling that it would be hard-core screwed by something like RDW or burn, really anything with lots of direct damage, in fact thats what screwed me with the suicide black and with a boros.
but for speed, really i am pretty quick. drop spellbreaker T4, usually with mana left over for a path/swords or enough to put another fertile/trace on the field. then next turn drop some thing like terra stomper or kalonian behemoth, privileged position if it isn't already on the field. which by the way, the position is performing awsome for me. only real answers are *** effects and stuff that forces me to sack. back to speed, maybe there is something faster in legacy, but as a primarily standard player, i think this is very quick without going to an overabundance of accelerators.
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you run six fetchlands. that's why I suggested the top. it allows lots of shuffling which lets you see lots more cards. If you want viable lifegain for your style of deck? easy enough, i reckon.
just a few that might be useful, though the middle two wouldn't be as useful, given that you run some shrouded stuff. primal command is probably the winner here, given the mana you run.
since by trace of abundances both count as red and white permanents, its works out pretty well, T3 5/3 with haste and lifelink is pretty nice. i messed with the deck to lower the curve a bit and also to reflect some changes.
Though the library has been kinda lackluster. Maybe i'm getting the wording wrong, but effectively it does the same as top with me drawing three, and i can also keep the cards if i want to by paying 4 life for each card, right?
Deck shows excellent promise. the library helps me dig for stuff, though it is annoying when i hit land pockets, which is enevitable with any deck. the list is the same, but when i was experimenting with it, i tried out blitz hellion. i kinda like it and if you wanna switch the dck over to aggro, its easy with the change of
-2 Rith
-2 Terra Stomper
+4 Blitz Hellion
the library really shown when i was doing this. after the shuffle, i was as able to get the hellion in hand much easier than just waiting to top deck it. but then this goes from rith smash to some naya aggro deck.
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2 Rith, The Awakener
2 Meglonoth
2 Godsire
4 Thornscape Battlemage
4 Keeper of Progenitus
Spells
1 Titanic Ultimatum
2 Armadillo Cloak
2 Incinerate
2 Privileged Position
3 Glory of Warfare
4 Fertile Ground
4 Trace of Abundance
4 Harrow
7 Forest
5 Plains
4 Jungle Shrine
3 Mountain
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Rootbound Crag
Anyone got ideas on how to improve this? the main idea is to use the accelerators to pump out big stuff like Rith, who is the main win-con, and Godsire's (secondary win-con), and Meglonoth who is just to be a beater.
somethig i was thinking of was replacing one of the accelerators (maybe harrow?) with Luminarch Ascencion. Also was thinking of finding a place for Garruk. any suggestions and advice are the welcome.
how do you get him out through a counterspell barrage?
how do you deal with the tons of spot removal and wastelands that see play?
how do you control the game long enough to get away with playing him?
if you can answer those questions, then perhaps you might get away with playing rith and/or meglonoth. However, you're still going to be in a world of hurt because you're slow in colors that don't control well and any form of combo is going to eat you alive. You could augment this by playing man mana (birds of paradise, noble hierarch, etc.) and blood moon effects to slow down decks (these have to hit play t2 at the latest, though. along with chalice of the void or somesuch answer to counter early spot removal. you could play path to exile and swords to plowshares yourself (in fact, your'e in white and should be playing them). You could consider hate bears like gaddock teeg to slow down your opponents some. OR you could go with natural order or survival of the fittest as a way to drop him sooner.
Orim's chant
silence
abeyance
are all decent ways to slow down combo quite a bit without hurting you too much. Krosan grip for when you just need to blow up an artifact or enchantment in the board is a good idea. these are just a few of the ideas you can use. You need to get that game plan solidified.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Also:
The Spellbreaker is a must, counterspells are the bane of midrange fatties.
You are going to need some protective fat, Maybe Plated Slagwurm?
A.
didn't think of that, but someone did suggest spellbreaker behemoth, which is a T3 drop, and since my big guys, who are my win-cons, are 6 and 8 respectivly, so i think it will be okay. though Force of will will always be a problem.
i was taking a note from mythic bant with this. try to drop more threats than they have removal. now that i think about it, thats a bad idea as i dont have exalted, so i was considering something like Spearbreaker Behemoth, but if i play mark of asylum, i would only have to worry about destroy target creature and global effects. i was also playing privileged position, so all my stuff had 1 way shroud anyway.
and on the wastelands, notice i have only 6 non-basic and then toss in that Trace of Abundance gives a land shroud, so i'm not really worried even without the changes i made.
T1 Forest, BoP
T2 Land, Trace/fertile on the new land, then i have mana for removal or another Bop
T3 land, Spellbreaker, or if i played a second BoP T2, either rith or meglonoth. could also play spellbreaker and trace/fertile if i played teh BoP T2, depends on the MU and hand.
as you can see, i don't really need to control the board, i will own the board. maybe its not as good as some broken T1 combo, but more than good enough to work.
though the rest of this does give very me some excellent ideas on what to put in. thanks.
what do people think of tossing in some Mark of Asylums? can't kill my creatures though damage and cant counter (due to spellbreaker), so all they can hope to do is overrun or play bigger stuff (assuming no mill).
how about this?
2 Rith, The Awakener
2 Godsire
4 Spellbreaker Behemoth
4 Birds of Paradise
Spells
2 Privileged Position
2 Mark of Asylum
4 Incinerate
4 Fertile Ground
4 Trace of Abundance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
7 Forest
5 Plains
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
looks nice to me. mana base looks okay, only non-basics are fetchs so wasteland and such shouldn't be much of a problem. got 12 peices of removal, more excelleration and a way to help stop counter spell decks, and global evasion for my stuff only. i think its mostly solid, a few problems such as force of will still get me and slow me down and any countering can stop me from playing my evasion enchants, all of which is bad.
now, on to mark of asylum....my question for you is this?
what damage based spells can actually kill a rith the awakener, let alone the godsire, that see play? the answer is 2 and 3 lightning bolts, respectively. If they're using that many bolts to kill a creature, you're going to win sir. the removal most commonly played is either exile (swords to plowshares) or damageless (snuff out). you're better off with running a few more big beaters. Now, if you're still deadset on big dudes, then here's a cheeky little suggestion. Kodama of the North tree in place of godsire. I'd dare say I'd like to see your opponents take a chunk out of him. Otherwise, use Uril, the Miststalker
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
utopia sprawl remindes me of Quirion Elves and i think it has the same problems. there is better stuff. for a T1 drop, i would rather a bird and do something like this:
T1 Forest, Birds
T2 land, tap birds and forest to play either fertile or trace on the new land, tap the new land to play fertile/trace on the forest.
T3 i have 4 mana minimum (if the remove birds and i dont play a land)
I have actually done this quite consistently.
Now mark, you're right, its a crap card for this. it would save me from the occasional double bolt or some other damage causing removal, but all my stuff should have 1 way shroud anyway.
Kodama and Uril aren't that bad of suggestions, but Godsire stays in. Maybe its the timmy in me, but he is just fun to drop turn 5/6.
New list:
2 Rith, The Awakener
2 Godsire
4 Spellbreaker Behemoth
4 Birds of Paradise
Spells
4 Privileged Position
4 Incinerate
4 Fertile Ground
4 Trace of Abundance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
7 Forest
5 Plains
4 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Rith, the Awakener
2 Terra Stomper
2 Kalonian Behemoth
4 Spellbreaker Behemoth
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Trace of Abundance
4 Fertile Ground
4 Privileged Position
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Path to Exile
4 Howling Mine
Land
7 Forest
5 Plains
4 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
sorry for the double post
--welt
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
my only question is do you think the library is better or the top? i kinda like top better, but in order to draw whatever, it needs to go on top instead of the library which doesnt dig as deep but also doenst really have anything bad cause i can get the best of the top 2 cards, or can draw both for 4 life.
also, is there anyway to fit some lifegain into the deck, maybe in the draw? i get this feeling that it would be hard-core screwed by something like RDW or burn, really anything with lots of direct damage, in fact thats what screwed me with the suicide black and with a boros.
but for speed, really i am pretty quick. drop spellbreaker T4, usually with mana left over for a path/swords or enough to put another fertile/trace on the field. then next turn drop some thing like terra stomper or kalonian behemoth, privileged position if it isn't already on the field. which by the way, the position is performing awsome for me. only real answers are *** effects and stuff that forces me to sack. back to speed, maybe there is something faster in legacy, but as a primarily standard player, i think this is very quick without going to an overabundance of accelerators.
just a few that might be useful, though the middle two wouldn't be as useful, given that you run some shrouded stuff. primal command is probably the winner here, given the mana you run.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Cliffrunner Behemoth
since by trace of abundances both count as red and white permanents, its works out pretty well, T3 5/3 with haste and lifelink is pretty nice. i messed with the deck to lower the curve a bit and also to reflect some changes.
-4 Howling Mine
-2 Kalonian Behemoth
+3 Sylvan Library
+3 Cliffrunner Behemoth
2 Rith, the Awakener
2 Terra Stomper
3 Cliffrunner Behemoth
4 Spellbreaker Behemoth
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Sylvan Library
4 Fertile Ground
4 Privileged Position
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Path to Exile
7 Forest
5 Plains
4 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
Though the library has been kinda lackluster. Maybe i'm getting the wording wrong, but effectively it does the same as top with me drawing three, and i can also keep the cards if i want to by paying 4 life for each card, right?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
-2 Rith
-2 Terra Stomper
+4 Blitz Hellion
the library really shown when i was doing this. after the shuffle, i was as able to get the hellion in hand much easier than just waiting to top deck it. but then this goes from rith smash to some naya aggro deck.