{Pic of Doomsday} + {pic of Shelldock Isle!}
Basically, using this combination you can cheatingly cast big creatures into play for free:
{pic of Emrakul looking bada$$}
My plan is to try a less combo-ey approach, in comparison with Storm. With all the cantrips already in the deck, I thought Psychatog would make a pretty cool shell to go with it as an alt win.
I'm deffinitely not super experienced in Tog so any feedback, as well as general strategies in cards to use or how I should play it would be really helpful. Thanks!
Tog isn't the greatest card in the world anymore, as he takes a ton of resources to get lethal and is completely crippled by grave hate. If you want an alternative win condition other than Tendrils, then I hear that Tarmogoyf guy is pretty good.
Other thoughts would be that this deck absolutely wants to hit Force of Will, so Thoughtseize or Duress should be played over Inquisition, and that if you want to play the control role with a combo finish, then CounterTop is the way to go.
Just finished a tourney today, it did really well! I was happy with it, although I lost a game because... yeah, btw, don't brainstorm the following turn after you setup your 5 cards (Shelldock, Emrakul, FoW/Smother, etc, etc) you will deck yourself which I learned the hard way Lol. I annihilated 6, pass the turn then I'm like... hmmm, I don't seem to have any cards do I Live and learn
Thanks for the feedback on Tog though, before the tourney I had modified the list above as follows:
-3 Tog
+1 Tombstalker
-4 Inquisition
+4 Duress
+1 Daze
+1 Mystical Tutor
-1 Land
+2 Counterspells
Something like that.
Mystical Tutor was great, I'll deffinitely want a full 4 next time I plan on cutting maybe a few ponder. Also, I think 2x Sensei's DT would be very nice after I ritual-->Doomsday or go for combo, to be able to use Top to draw Shelldock to hideaway a turn early would be huge... I cut a few games really close, you can be really vulnerable if you timewalk them so its a must to have some countermagic backup, but with 10 counters and 4 duress I usually had no problem at all buying turns.. even shut down a double chalice.
Tombstalker was great too. He was a great backup, he can come out turn2-3'ish some games. Oftentimes I just used him as a guard early on to buy turns for Doomsday, but I did try to race Countryside Crusher one game with him, we were both down to 3 life till he won All in all, it's pretty much a 5/5 flyer for :symb::symb: so I think he deffinitely serves his purpose, even had one game someone naming meddling mage on Doomsday (luckily I had smother) but games like that it's good to have a plan B. I think people should try this deck out though, it is a lot of fun to play, it's risky but at the same time has far more protection than ANT. Btw, pithing needle vs wasteland is a must, it saved me one game in particular.
Show and Tell looks good, but possibly a little too random as a one-of main deck. I just about have an equal chance brainstorming Emrakul out of my hand in that scenario, or mulling if opening hand with no brainstorm.
However, I think SB in 3x Emrakul, 4x Show and Tell would be an amazing tech. Against decks with burn, or wait till they bring in meddling mage/therapy calling Doomsday then laugh :D. Without the life loss I'd be able to take quite a bit more damage, too. That might be what I do, considering I had absolutely no use for my SB last time lol.
One “random” in the main is sort of the point. It allows for an out. Let’s say it is game one and the opponents knows what you’re playing and also happens to play wasteland. They would know to keep it open at all times if you attempt combo out. One Show and Tell gives the out to this situation.
The main point I’m trying to convey is a back up plan. I know Tombstalker is the initial back up plan; however, this card should be able to help too. Just take a look at most Reanimator builds.
The problem with this deck it dies to one card that's being played in 30% of all legacy decks.
- wasteland!
False, well at least not for game 2/3. One game someone had wasteland, I barely lost game one getting him down to 3 with Tombstalker. Pithing needle naming wastleland and combing out next turn smashed him next game.
You should learn how to play shelldrazi if you like the doomsday combo. It combined TES ( main-win-con) with doomsday/shelldock (alternate win-con)
I did say. . . My plan is to try a less combo-ey approach, in comparison with Storm
I'm curious though, how does DDStorm work? I've never actually seen the mechanics; is it doable while still keeping the protection I have?
I love the fact that it's pretty much a one-card combo right now, I think having 10 counters and 4 hand removal makes the deck a pretty tough shield vs other combo decks out there like belcher, storm, and such despite the life loss.
You can play the with Tendrils and Shelldock Isle->Emrakul as the only kill conditions and run 12+ disruption spells. This is probably worse than running Show and Tell, as having more bombs is important in certain matchups. For reference:
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce/Daze/Misdirection
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'd recommend cutting down some disruption to play some Ponders, upping your blue count and your consistency. This approach has definite issues with the tempo matchup. If you don't play Show and Tell, I'd probably say go for an even more combo-ish route with heavy black ala:
This is a pretty good Tendrils deck with some quick kills vs Counterbalance. It has a slightly better Merfolk matchup than normal ANT will due to being able to focus on a non-life-dependent kill and thus not needing to try to combo extremely early to keep its engine workable. 8 Discard + Xantid Swarm is a proven combination against merfolk, decent against Tempo Thresh and 8 Discard + Doomsdays is a very strong combination against Counterbalance.
While this build is slightly slower than ANT in a goldfish (it's going to mostly win on turn 3 either by Emrakul or Storm), it has a very good chance of winning turn 2 with a decent hand, especially against aggro. Doomsday also makes it resistant to common hatebears.
IMO, you're not going to make this work as much of a control deck. This deck needs Rituals and Lotus Petals to operate in the turns that Counterbalance doesn't have ammo for, and that same fast mana fuels free wins against unprepared opponents who waste their wastes on our duals. Trying to Doomsday, go after turn 2 is really scary against most of the format, and even turn 1-2 Doomsday is scary against certain decks (Zoo/Sligh). Tendrils makes up for these shortcomings, whereas counterspells and some beaters, even ones as strong as Tarmogoyf or Pyschatog, do not.
Burning Wish, that's a great idea, and heavy black vs blue I totally agree would be better in the tempo matchups (forcing their stuff feels awesome till I'm down to like 2 cards lol).
I think what you said in the last sentence makes quite a bit of sense when I think it over a lot, Tendrils allows a much more certain almost guaranteed win in certain matchups where.. playing cards like Tombstalker as a backup very well could win but allow more room for Fail.
Btw nice guide, I finally figured out the guide the dude mentioned, Rev614
{Pic of Doomsday} + {pic of Shelldock Isle!}
Basically, using this combination you can cheatingly cast big creatures into play for free:
{pic of Emrakul looking bada$$}
My plan is to try a less combo-ey approach, in comparison with Storm. With all the cantrips already in the deck, I thought Psychatog would make a pretty cool shell to go with it as an alt win.
EDIT: Latest list I'm tempting
7 Fetchland
4 Underground Sea
3 Islands
1 Swamp
2 Shelldock Isle
Cantrips (20)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Mystical Tutor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Duress
2 Counterspell
2 Smother
Finisher (8)
4 Doomsday
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Tombstalker
I'm deffinitely not super experienced in Tog so any feedback, as well as general strategies in cards to use or how I should play it would be really helpful. Thanks!
Warning for image leeching. C_c
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR
Other thoughts would be that this deck absolutely wants to hit Force of Will, so Thoughtseize or Duress should be played over Inquisition, and that if you want to play the control role with a combo finish, then CounterTop is the way to go.
Thanks for the feedback on Tog though, before the tourney I had modified the list above as follows:
-3 Tog
+1 Tombstalker
-4 Inquisition
+4 Duress
+1 Daze
+1 Mystical Tutor
-1 Land
+2 Counterspells
Something like that.
Mystical Tutor was great, I'll deffinitely want a full 4 next time I plan on cutting maybe a few ponder. Also, I think 2x Sensei's DT would be very nice after I ritual-->Doomsday or go for combo, to be able to use Top to draw Shelldock to hideaway a turn early would be huge... I cut a few games really close, you can be really vulnerable if you timewalk them so its a must to have some countermagic backup, but with 10 counters and 4 duress I usually had no problem at all buying turns.. even shut down a double chalice.
Tombstalker was great too. He was a great backup, he can come out turn2-3'ish some games. Oftentimes I just used him as a guard early on to buy turns for Doomsday, but I did try to race Countryside Crusher one game with him, we were both down to 3 life till he won All in all, it's pretty much a 5/5 flyer for :symb::symb: so I think he deffinitely serves his purpose, even had one game someone naming meddling mage on Doomsday (luckily I had smother) but games like that it's good to have a plan B. I think people should try this deck out though, it is a lot of fun to play, it's risky but at the same time has far more protection than ANT. Btw, pithing needle vs wasteland is a must, it saved me one game in particular.
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR
". . . Don't ever leave me! . . . 'Cause I'd find you!" - Wedding Crashers
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
Show and Tell looks good, but possibly a little too random as a one-of main deck. I just about have an equal chance brainstorming Emrakul out of my hand in that scenario, or mulling if opening hand with no brainstorm.
However, I think SB in 3x Emrakul, 4x Show and Tell would be an amazing tech. Against decks with burn, or wait till they bring in meddling mage/therapy calling Doomsday then laugh :D. Without the life loss I'd be able to take quite a bit more damage, too. That might be what I do, considering I had absolutely no use for my SB last time lol.
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR
The main point I’m trying to convey is a back up plan. I know Tombstalker is the initial back up plan; however, this card should be able to help too. Just take a look at most Reanimator builds.
It still pitches to Force.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
False, well at least not for game 2/3. One game someone had wasteland, I barely lost game one getting him down to 3 with Tombstalker. Pithing needle naming wastleland and combing out next turn smashed him next game.
I did say. . .
My plan is to try a less combo-ey approach, in comparison with Storm
I'm curious though, how does DDStorm work? I've never actually seen the mechanics; is it doable while still keeping the protection I have?
I love the fact that it's pretty much a one-card combo right now, I think having 10 counters and 4 hand removal makes the deck a pretty tough shield vs other combo decks out there like belcher, storm, and such despite the life loss.
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR
Sig and Avvy by Heroes of the Plane Studios
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Dredge
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Sharuum
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce/Daze/Misdirection
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Shelldock Isle
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
I'd recommend cutting down some disruption to play some Ponders, upping your blue count and your consistency. This approach has definite issues with the tempo matchup. If you don't play Show and Tell, I'd probably say go for an even more combo-ish route with heavy black ala:
3 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Meltdown
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
This is a pretty good Tendrils deck with some quick kills vs Counterbalance. It has a slightly better Merfolk matchup than normal ANT will due to being able to focus on a non-life-dependent kill and thus not needing to try to combo extremely early to keep its engine workable. 8 Discard + Xantid Swarm is a proven combination against merfolk, decent against Tempo Thresh and 8 Discard + Doomsdays is a very strong combination against Counterbalance.
While this build is slightly slower than ANT in a goldfish (it's going to mostly win on turn 3 either by Emrakul or Storm), it has a very good chance of winning turn 2 with a decent hand, especially against aggro. Doomsday also makes it resistant to common hatebears.
IMO, you're not going to make this work as much of a control deck. This deck needs Rituals and Lotus Petals to operate in the turns that Counterbalance doesn't have ammo for, and that same fast mana fuels free wins against unprepared opponents who waste their wastes on our duals. Trying to Doomsday, go after turn 2 is really scary against most of the format, and even turn 1-2 Doomsday is scary against certain decks (Zoo/Sligh). Tendrils makes up for these shortcomings, whereas counterspells and some beaters, even ones as strong as Tarmogoyf or Pyschatog, do not.
Burning Wish, that's a great idea, and heavy black vs blue I totally agree would be better in the tempo matchups (forcing their stuff feels awesome till I'm down to like 2 cards lol).
I think what you said in the last sentence makes quite a bit of sense when I think it over a lot, Tendrils allows a much more certain almost guaranteed win in certain matchups where.. playing cards like Tombstalker as a backup very well could win but allow more room for Fail.
Btw nice guide, I finally figured out the guide the dude mentioned, Rev614
GWRUB[EDH] Reaper KingGWRUB
GW[Legacy] BEARS (#1 Threat in America)GW
UR[Legacy] Arcane MeleeUR