Dredge can just be hated out with one Tormod's Crypt alone. I want to make a deck that can be just as effective as dredge, but not be unbearably crippled after a tormod's crypt or relic trashes my GY. I want it to hold it's own with agrro decks and eventually get Iona in for the win.
I am just about to get the cards for this deck to playtest, and I have a feeling I will be happy with the results. Turn one will hopefully have some substatial damage to fend off ANT decks, and get me creature out quickly. Not to mention maybe a zombie from Bridge, after I sacrifice an Ichorid.
Fetch's work well with Bloodghast so that I why I have 9!
Careful study seems to slow and is not the same draw as Unthinkable.
I haven't completely figure out the sideboard yet, but I intent for it to be almost all Hate hate, if you catch my drift. The diabolic intent can be a broken tutor in this deck, and get me anything I need easily. Krosan grip is for obviously
Consistency is key, and I haven't played this so I may make minor changes with #'s of creature or other spells etc. That doesn't meant that it won't play differently each game.
Pros:
1. A turn one dark ritual into a last rites, would pretty much end the game (unless I am playing dredge).
2.Glimpse the unthinkable is used on my own graveyard, and it could be absolutely devastating, not to mention lead straight into an Iona combo. A perfect draw card, and that is why I have four. Plus it can be used to come back after Tormod's.
3. Res creature avoid counter spells, which will be a pain for decks like Dreadstill and Threshold.
4. Mishra's help flashback cards like Dread and Cabal
5. First turn Dark to Putrid to cabal and discard creatures, hopefully getting me one out, and then sacrifice a creature for Cabal again like IChorid before end of turn or Nether Shadow would hurt alot.
Do you know what you're talking about? I'll admit, I'm new to Dredge, but it's ability to withstand hate is much better than you give it credit for. Furthermore, Dredge (or Ichorid) has a strong MU against Aggro decks; it's decks like ANT which give it fits. And with cards like Last Rites, you'd have less of a hand than the average Dredge player.
I really like the whole idea, so nice job! It seems like you'd want 4 Bridge's right? If you don't land enough creatures/ find Iona or Dread Return, your other plan has to be the Bridge's.. i think, or small beats but I don't think that's gonna get you there.
Do you know what you're talking about? I'll admit, I'm new to Dredge, but it's ability to withstand hate is much better than you give it credit for. Furthermore, Dredge (or Ichorid) has a strong MU against Aggro decks; it's decks like ANT which give it fits. And with cards like Last Rites, you'd have less of a hand than the average Dredge player.
I agree.
However, the avg dredge player is a moron and can't play through hate.
Any suggestions?
Learn how to play Dredge. Then you won't have to resort to playing a bad version of Dredge. I know some great Dredge players that can play through as much as 2 or 3 pieces of hate. You just have to put in some effort to learn how to play each matchup.
Its analogous to saying:
"Hey guys combo can just be beaten by one Force of Will so I took out the combo and threw in some Goyfs and Lightning Bolts."
x2 Mishra's Factory
To a Dredge player, thats not that far of a stretch from my analogy.
I suggest that you rethink what you are trying to accomplish. If you are making a much slower version of Dredge that can easily play through hate you might as well be playing something else. You shouldn't build a deck and then form a strategy. You should pick a strategy and then build a deck to suit your goals.
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Dredge can just be hated out with one Tormod's Crypt alone.
I have to wonder if you play against any competent Dredge pilots. Or if you're the one playing with it, I seriously question your experience with Dredge.
EDIT:
Just like what Vacrix said, just learn and play well with dredge.
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Main: LEDless Dredge
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Do you know what you're talking about? I'll admit, I'm new to Dredge, but it's ability to withstand hate is much better than you give it credit for. Furthermore, Dredge (or Ichorid) has a strong MU against Aggro decks; it's decks like ANT which give it fits. And with cards like Last Rites, you'd have less of a hand than the average Dredge player.
I wouldn't have much of a hand, but neither would my opponent, and a full hand is more important to any other deck, especially when they can't utilize the cards in their graveyard. I can hold on to a Unthinkable, or Diabolic from the sideboard, or even a ritual and a dread if Iona is in the GY. Last Rites would most certainly give me the upper hand. No pun intended. If it gets Force of Willed I than maybe I can play Unthinkable next turn.
I have decided it would be better to put in 4x narcomoeba instead of Nether Shadow.
I play combo as my deck of choice and I lost 1-2 to a dredge player at the last tournament who boarded in FoW. Dredge has some pretty good options against combo. They play Chalice and sometimes Unmask. You don't need something that happens on turn 3 via Last Rites. Your opponent will often kill you way before then.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is unthinkably bad in Dredge. Careful Study is strictly better because it lets you use 2 draws to Dredge twice...
Narcomoeba is the reason Dredge works. Taking it out means you don't know what you are doing. Read the Dredge Primer and you will see why Dredge plays the cards that it does.
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The point is, a dredge deck with a competent pilot trumps this. You built this deck thinking dredge has a problem - that it can't play through hate. All but 1 of the later posters have all said that it in fact can. So why isn't this a bad version of dredge?
And now you're adding Dredge's signature card.
Go play dredge. It's highly competitive and really fun.
Btw, a few ways to trump Crypt, to say nothing of anything else Ancient Grudge
You can even *gasp* DREDGE! into this one, enabling you to pop them on your turns.
And a quick analysis:
Assuming that you Glimpse turn 2, you'd see 10 cards.
On turn 2, casting a Daze-proof Breakthrough, I typically see 15-20 cards - and can crack the Coliseum I just laid down next turn.
Because its terrible. The moment Dredge to be paying mana to get back its creatures, its doing something wrong. Thats why it plays Narcomoeba (free creature), Ichorid, and Bloodghast.
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Because its terrible. The moment Dredge to be paying mana to get back its creatures, its doing something wrong. Thats why it plays Narcomoeba (free creature), Ichorid, and Bloodghast.
O.K., well I have resorted to re-designing a Dredge deck. I want to make it more resilient to force of will decks that also have hate. I want to be able to play an aggro decks if necessary, and play creature from my hand against it, which is what I saw the dredge player do against countertop in an 09' Championship-- he lost second two games. I've added Nether Traitor and Sword of the Meek. Opponents don't want to counter your Dredge creatures, right? This could lead you to a win next turn.
Sideboard: 15
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Chain of Vapor
4x Sword of the Meek
After sideboard, take out Lion's eye and analysis and put in 4x Sword of the meek and either two ray of revelation or 2 ancient grudge. Can cast thug and Narco and nether, all 1/1's to activate meek. Nether traitor's shadow will could be dangerous. I have two so that if I am going off I can use on of the extra man from lion's eye that I very well may have after I have produced UUB, and bring nether traitor in when Ichorid dies or I sac creatures etc.
Or rather just scratch the nether, and put in tireless. This is probably a better plan.
-1 Ichord
-2 Nether
+3 Tireless Tribe
Any other idea's?
Yes. Go to the Ichorid thread and post there. Furthmore, sword is terrible here. A 2/3 vanilaa flier applies virtually the same pressure as a 1/1 vanilla flier.
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Lands: 17
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
1x Swamp
2x Mishra's Factory
Creatures: 22
4x Putrid Imp 1c
4x Bloodghast 2c
4x Ichorid 4c
2x Nether Traitor 2c
3x Sedraxis Specter 3c
3x Nether Shadow 2c
2x Iona, Shield of Emeria 9c
Sorcery: 15
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable 2c
4x Cabal Therapy 1c
3x Dread Return 4c
4x Last Rites 3c
Enchantments: 2
2x Bridge from Below 3c
3x Tormod's Crypt 0c
2x Krosan Grip
2x Extirpate 1c
1x Pongify 1c
1x Smother
3x Diabolic Intent 2c
2x Pithing Needle 1c
1x Bayou
Dredge can just be hated out with one Tormod's Crypt alone. I want to make a deck that can be just as effective as dredge, but not be unbearably crippled after a tormod's crypt or relic trashes my GY. I want it to hold it's own with agrro decks and eventually get Iona in for the win.
I am just about to get the cards for this deck to playtest, and I have a feeling I will be happy with the results. Turn one will hopefully have some substatial damage to fend off ANT decks, and get me creature out quickly. Not to mention maybe a zombie from Bridge, after I sacrifice an Ichorid.
Fetch's work well with Bloodghast so that I why I have 9!
Careful study seems to slow and is not the same draw as Unthinkable.
I haven't completely figure out the sideboard yet, but I intent for it to be almost all Hate hate, if you catch my drift. The diabolic intent can be a broken tutor in this deck, and get me anything I need easily. Krosan grip is for obviously
Consistency is key, and I haven't played this so I may make minor changes with #'s of creature or other spells etc. That doesn't meant that it won't play differently each game.
Pros:
1. A turn one dark ritual into a last rites, would pretty much end the game (unless I am playing dredge).
2.Glimpse the unthinkable is used on my own graveyard, and it could be absolutely devastating, not to mention lead straight into an Iona combo. A perfect draw card, and that is why I have four. Plus it can be used to come back after Tormod's.
3. Res creature avoid counter spells, which will be a pain for decks like Dreadstill and Threshold.
4. Mishra's help flashback cards like Dread and Cabal
5. First turn Dark to Putrid to cabal and discard creatures, hopefully getting me one out, and then sacrifice a creature for Cabal again like IChorid before end of turn or Nether Shadow would hurt alot.
Valor is a possibility, also Chalice of the Void, Vengevine with Riftstone, plunge into darkness, and deep analysis
Any suggestions?
I agree.
However, the avg dredge player is a moron and can't play through hate.
Learn how to play Dredge. Then you won't have to resort to playing a bad version of Dredge. I know some great Dredge players that can play through as much as 2 or 3 pieces of hate. You just have to put in some effort to learn how to play each matchup.
Its analogous to saying:
"Hey guys combo can just be beaten by one Force of Will so I took out the combo and threw in some Goyfs and Lightning Bolts."
To a Dredge player, thats not that far of a stretch from my analogy.
I suggest that you rethink what you are trying to accomplish. If you are making a much slower version of Dredge that can easily play through hate you might as well be playing something else. You shouldn't build a deck and then form a strategy. You should pick a strategy and then build a deck to suit your goals.
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
I have to wonder if you play against any competent Dredge pilots. Or if you're the one playing with it, I seriously question your experience with Dredge.
EDIT:
Just like what Vacrix said, just learn and play well with dredge.
Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.
I wouldn't have much of a hand, but neither would my opponent, and a full hand is more important to any other deck, especially when they can't utilize the cards in their graveyard. I can hold on to a Unthinkable, or Diabolic from the sideboard, or even a ritual and a dread if Iona is in the GY. Last Rites would most certainly give me the upper hand. No pun intended. If it gets Force of Willed I than maybe I can play Unthinkable next turn.
I have decided it would be better to put in 4x narcomoeba instead of Nether Shadow.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is unthinkably bad in Dredge. Careful Study is strictly better because it lets you use 2 draws to Dredge twice...
Narcomoeba is the reason Dredge works. Taking it out means you don't know what you are doing. Read the Dredge Primer and you will see why Dredge plays the cards that it does.
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
And now you're adding Dredge's signature card.
Go play dredge. It's highly competitive and really fun.
Btw, a few ways to trump Crypt, to say nothing of anything else
Ancient Grudge
You can even *gasp* DREDGE! into this one, enabling you to pop them on your turns.
And a quick analysis:
Assuming that you Glimpse turn 2, you'd see 10 cards.
On turn 2, casting a Daze-proof Breakthrough, I typically see 15-20 cards - and can crack the Coliseum I just laid down next turn.
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
O.K., well I have resorted to re-designing a Dredge deck. I want to make it more resilient to force of will decks that also have hate. I want to be able to play an aggro decks if necessary, and play creature from my hand against it, which is what I saw the dredge player do against countertop in an 09' Championship-- he lost second two games. I've added Nether Traitor and Sword of the Meek. Opponents don't want to counter your Dredge creatures, right? This could lead you to a win next turn.
-1 Stinkweed
Meek Dredge
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
4x Cephalid Coliseum
Creatures: 27
4x Putrid Imp 1c
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
2x Nether Traitor
4x Ichorid 4c
3x Stinkweed Imp
4x Narcomoeba
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria 9c
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
4x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy 1c
2 Deep Analysis
3x Dread Return 4c
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Bridge from Below 3c
Sideboard: 15
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Chain of Vapor
4x Sword of the Meek
After sideboard, take out Lion's eye and analysis and put in 4x Sword of the meek and either two ray of revelation or 2 ancient grudge. Can cast thug and Narco and nether, all 1/1's to activate meek. Nether traitor's shadow will could be dangerous. I have two so that if I am going off I can use on of the extra man from lion's eye that I very well may have after I have produced UUB, and bring nether traitor in when Ichorid dies or I sac creatures etc.
Or rather just scratch the nether, and put in tireless. This is probably a better plan.
-1 Ichord
-2 Nether
+3 Tireless Tribe
Any other idea's?