Hey everyone, i don't post here often, but i decided to work on a legacy deck for a summer project. I was looking at the "Nightmare Effect" and "Rev 614" builds and was really interested in both. I was trying to decide which to build or what variations might be interesting. While mulling over the list i noticed there were some strong synergies. Basically the deck has a Nightmare effect skeleton, with what i perceived as some of the weaker or unnecessary slots taken out and replaced with the bare bones of the Shelldock Isle/Doomsday/ Emrakul, the Aeons Torn combo.
So the turn after the Doomsday is played, you play shelldock isle and hideaway emrakul,
the next turn you draw your undeground sea, activate shelldock isle and play emrakul for free, getting an extra turn
After skipping your opponents turn, you draw negate, attack with your 15/15 creature with annihilator 6 and say go
then the following turn you finish them off
Other Synergies:
The deck can play similar to a normal nightmare effect deck and has the card advantage and the abuse of the nightmare ability that goes along with it. However, cards like Buried Alive, Tortured Existence and Corpse Dance (which are normally in a nightmare deck) also allow you to abuse Emrakul in other ways.
If your opponent is under 16 life, you can quickkly finish him, just pitch Emrakul into your graveyard using Tortured Existence or Buried Alive and cheat him into play using Corpse Dance, ya he doesn't get the "when cast" effect, but your hasting out a 15/15 flyer with annihilator 6 (and as early as turn 2 with the help of dark ritual).
I understand that this isn't a tier 1 deck, but i feel that it is borrows from 2 decks that are in development and it can be built for less than $50 (the 4x Underground Sea can be traded out for 2 swamp and 2 island and the 4 fetchs traded out for 4 more swamps). The only reason blue is in the deck is to activate shelldock isle after the doomsday and play the negate to protect your emrakul from a edict or oblivion ring and an island will be just as good as a underground sea as the 3rd card in your doomsday stack.
so why the maindeck rune snag? you could really just go monoblack to smooth out the manabase.
you need at least one island in the deck to activate the shelldock isle, but its not an issue cause you just put the island in your 5 card doomsday stack. the rune snag is there in case someone plays a edict or some other card that would kill emrakul; it is the fourth card in your stack, your guaranteed to have the blue many cause the island is the 3rd card.
basically i consider the deck monoblack (you just need the island for the combo win)
do you have a better suggestion for protecting your emrakul from something like an edict, the rune snag does feel a little clunky in there, but i felt it was better then daze and i really couldn't think of anything else
Probably the main issue i see is the fact that most teir1 decks right now run blue, meaning in order to combo off you need to get past at least one counter spell somewhere along the lines. that's why most combo decks have blue, just to get past the counter spells. So it seems like the combo is very hard to pull off through the control.
Edit: Also if your using the counter spell for defending the big guy, why not something more reliable like Negate or heck even mana leak is better at this point. Pact of negation works, as does Spell Pierce
Probably the main issue i see is the fact that most teir1 decks right now run blue, meaning in order to combo off you need to get past at least one counter spell somewhere along the lines. that's why most combo decks have blue, just to get past the counter spells. So it seems like the combo is very hard to pull off through the control.
Edit: Also if your using the counter spell for defending the big guy, why not something more reliable like Negate or heck even mana leak is better at this point. Pact of negation works, as does Spell Pierce
ya definately, negate is far better than rune snag... i was sleeping on that one
as far as, going heavier into blue... i recognize that going with brainstorm and force of will and even show and tell would be a strong combo deck, however that is a different deck, with this build im wanting a "Nightmare Effect" style control deck which can abuse Emrakul and also has the potential for a 1st turn doomsday, which will set up a very difficult to disrupt combo
I don't mean to sound overly negative, but I don't see any reason at all to randomly shoehorn that particular combo finish into that deck. You should already have a decent control matchup due to the amount of recursion you run, and I can tell you from experience that casting DD then passing the turn any turn but turn 1 is likely to get you raced by aggro.
If you want some sort of combo finish, then Protean Hulk seems like the better choice. You already run the sacrifice outlets for it, which means all you need to make room for is a Reveillark, a Body Double, and a Bile Urchin. These all offer the secondary function of pitching to Tortured Existence, and this combo isn't all or nothing like casting DD is. This also avoids having to splash blue, keeping the deck very affordable, which is its whole draw in the first place.
I don't mean to sound overly negative, but I don't see any reason at all to randomly shoehorn that particular combo finish into that deck. You should already have a decent control matchup due to the amount of recursion you run, and I can tell you from experience that casting DD then passing the turn any turn but turn 1 is likely to get you raced by aggro.
If you want some sort of combo finish, then Protean Hulk seems like the better choice. You already run the sacrifice outlets for it, which means all you need to make room for is a Reveillark, a Body Double, and a Bile Urchin. These all offer the secondary function of pitching to Tortured Existence, and this combo isn't all or nothing like casting DD is. This also avoids having to splash blue, keeping the deck very affordable, which is its whole draw in the first place.
hmm.. definately some stuff to consider. I would like to continue play testing with the current combo, but a protean hulk combo has some obvious synergies as well and i like that it adds more creatures.
I like the current combo, because it can go off turn one, and after the doomsday is cast its very hard to disrupt.
as for the cost of the deck... my orginal list runs 18 swamps, 2 islands and a shelldock isle. i added the duels because i figured people would be like "why no duels or fetches?'' Really it makes very little difference, if you already have them, add them, if not don't worry.
There seems to be a bit of gamble with this deck. If you pop DD, then Shelldock in Emrakul, and he gets blocked...its game over as you will draw yourself out.
There seems to be a bit of gamble with this deck. If you pop DD, then Shelldock in Emrakul, and he gets blocked...its game over as you will draw yourself out.
while true, it's still casting, he's going to resolve (short of something like mindbreak trap), and you'll get to attack. when he's declared as an attacker, they'll have to sacrifice 6 permanents. not too likely that they'll have that many, though I could be wrong.
There seems to be a bit of gamble with this deck. If you pop DD, then Shelldock in Emrakul, and he gets blocked...its game over as you will draw yourself out.
Ya, as mentioned above, when attackers are declared his annihilator 6 ability triggers and they sac 6 permanents... if they have that many what are the odds that they have a flying blocker? low enough i would think. sure its possible, but unlikely... i guess if they have lots of permanents and you feel like theres a good chance you won't get through, you hold off and either deal with their blocker or try and win with a different way. Perhaps tombstalker or pitching Emrakul and corpse danceing him for a unexpected 15 damage. Also remember, that you get back to back turns when emrakul is cast. so the they don't get a chance to play a blocker before you swing.
although you do bring up a good point that i should be concerned about them playing a flyer after my back-to-back turns. perhaps mana leak is a better fit then negate.
If you are unfamiliar with how the Nightmare Effect Decks work refer here before posting: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=231984
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Mesmeric Fiend
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Tombstalker
1x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Krovikan Horror
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Doomsday
4x Dark Ritual
4x Tortured Existence
4x Thoughtseize
2x Buried Alive
3x Corpse Dance
1x Negate
1x Shelldock Isle
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
13x Swamp
Main Combo Win:
so the basic stack for your cards off of Doomsday is:
- Shelldock Isle
- Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
- Underground Sea
- Negate
- Any Card
So the turn after the Doomsday is played, you play shelldock isle and hideaway emrakul,
the next turn you draw your undeground sea, activate shelldock isle and play emrakul for free, getting an extra turn
After skipping your opponents turn, you draw negate, attack with your 15/15 creature with annihilator 6 and say go
then the following turn you finish them off
Other Synergies:
The deck can play similar to a normal nightmare effect deck and has the card advantage and the abuse of the nightmare ability that goes along with it. However, cards like Buried Alive, Tortured Existence and Corpse Dance (which are normally in a nightmare deck) also allow you to abuse Emrakul in other ways.
If your opponent is under 16 life, you can quickkly finish him, just pitch Emrakul into your graveyard using Tortured Existence or Buried Alive and cheat him into play using Corpse Dance, ya he doesn't get the "when cast" effect, but your hasting out a 15/15 flyer with annihilator 6 (and as early as turn 2 with the help of dark ritual).
I understand that this isn't a tier 1 deck, but i feel that it is borrows from 2 decks that are in development and it can be built for less than $50 (the 4x Underground Sea can be traded out for 2 swamp and 2 island and the 4 fetchs traded out for 4 more swamps). The only reason blue is in the deck is to activate shelldock isle after the doomsday and play the negate to protect your emrakul from a edict or oblivion ring and an island will be just as good as a underground sea as the 3rd card in your doomsday stack.
recent changes:
out 1x Rune Snag, in 1x Negate
you need at least one island in the deck to activate the shelldock isle, but its not an issue cause you just put the island in your 5 card doomsday stack. the rune snag is there in case someone plays a edict or some other card that would kill emrakul; it is the fourth card in your stack, your guaranteed to have the blue many cause the island is the 3rd card.
technically your mana base could be:
basically i consider the deck monoblack (you just need the island for the combo win)
do you have a better suggestion for protecting your emrakul from something like an edict, the rune snag does feel a little clunky in there, but i felt it was better then daze and i really couldn't think of anything else
Edit: Also if your using the counter spell for defending the big guy, why not something more reliable like Negate or heck even mana leak is better at this point. Pact of negation works, as does Spell Pierce
Sig and Avvy by Heroes of the Plane Studios
Ninjas
Fish
Dredge
EDH
Sharuum
ya definately, negate is far better than rune snag... i was sleeping on that one
as far as, going heavier into blue... i recognize that going with brainstorm and force of will and even show and tell would be a strong combo deck, however that is a different deck, with this build im wanting a "Nightmare Effect" style control deck which can abuse Emrakul and also has the potential for a 1st turn doomsday, which will set up a very difficult to disrupt combo
If you want some sort of combo finish, then Protean Hulk seems like the better choice. You already run the sacrifice outlets for it, which means all you need to make room for is a Reveillark, a Body Double, and a Bile Urchin. These all offer the secondary function of pitching to Tortured Existence, and this combo isn't all or nothing like casting DD is. This also avoids having to splash blue, keeping the deck very affordable, which is its whole draw in the first place.
hmm.. definately some stuff to consider. I would like to continue play testing with the current combo, but a protean hulk combo has some obvious synergies as well and i like that it adds more creatures.
I like the current combo, because it can go off turn one, and after the doomsday is cast its very hard to disrupt.
as for the cost of the deck... my orginal list runs 18 swamps, 2 islands and a shelldock isle. i added the duels because i figured people would be like "why no duels or fetches?'' Really it makes very little difference, if you already have them, add them, if not don't worry.
while true, it's still casting, he's going to resolve (short of something like mindbreak trap), and you'll get to attack. when he's declared as an attacker, they'll have to sacrifice 6 permanents. not too likely that they'll have that many, though I could be wrong.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Ya, as mentioned above, when attackers are declared his annihilator 6 ability triggers and they sac 6 permanents... if they have that many what are the odds that they have a flying blocker? low enough i would think. sure its possible, but unlikely... i guess if they have lots of permanents and you feel like theres a good chance you won't get through, you hold off and either deal with their blocker or try and win with a different way. Perhaps tombstalker or pitching Emrakul and corpse danceing him for a unexpected 15 damage. Also remember, that you get back to back turns when emrakul is cast. so the they don't get a chance to play a blocker before you swing.
although you do bring up a good point that i should be concerned about them playing a flyer after my back-to-back turns. perhaps mana leak is a better fit then negate.