In lot of games i can cast suppression on the first turn(about 90% OF TIMES when i draw it in the initial opening hand and draw a sanctum or crop rotation). When i doesn´t draw field i can´t cast it in first turn ;).
I would like to include 4-5 basics or so, but i don´t know how to do it because we need green in opening (because crop rotation) and white (because lot of other things).
I´m still thinking how can i solve this problem.
THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. This meant you're assuming you have a Crop Rotation OR Serra's Sanctum in your initial hand for basing your argument that Wasteland can be taken care off by Suppression Field.. We're talking about a very small chance of this happening... what is the chances of having 3-4 Leylines, 1 Land(be it savannah or Serra's Sanctum), AND Suppression Field? Not very high.
Anyway, I like the Idea of getting Replenish in this deck. Helps against Mass Removal effects on our Enchantments, but it still is 4cc..:/
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yeah, but you can mulligan, can´t you? ;). I´ve determined that any hand without crop,serra´s or 3 or less than 2 mana is aa bad hand.
Like any deck it´s not perfect, but having chances of protecting your land sometimes is something to be considered.
I´m thinking on playing prismatic omen. This card is an enchantment and if i play 4 of these i could play basic forests that will tap for W if needed. I´m thinking if it could be an option.
Perhaps root maze could be another option to slow down the oppoenent but not sure yet about it.
Actually the probablility of drawing either crop rotation or serra's is 65%. However you only have a 40% chance of drawing suppression field.
Whatever the case may be, why play your serra's if your not using it? Play another land and since this deck relies heavily on its speed. Why would you keep a hand that doesnt let you do something turn 1 or 2
Actually the probablility of drawing either crop rotation or serra's is 65%. However you only have a 40% chance of drawing suppression field.
Whatever the case may be, why play your serra's if your not using it? Play another land and since this deck relies heavily on its speed. Why would you keep a hand that doesnt let you do something turn 1 or 2
Because you mulligan'd down to 5?
Listen, I've played a deck like this before, and HAVE won and lost with it. Heck, I even had Serum Powder to make sure I had a killer hand all the time, but that didn't work out too well because FoW on Opalesence, or a Wasteland on Serra's Sanctum basically meant I had no more hand, and I was praying for every spell I wanted to be what I was going to draw.=.= AND This was before Lorwyn was released.
Now, with the addition of Teeg, Quasali, Krosan Grip et al in the meta, it's even harder to play this deck, let alone get "THE HAND" you wanna play with this deck.=.=
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracover Actually the probablility of drawing either crop rotation or serra's is 65%. However you only have a 40% chance of drawing suppression field.
Whatever the case may be, why play your serra's if your not using it? Play another land and since this deck relies heavily on its speed. Why would you keep a hand that doesnt let you do something turn 1 or 2
Because you mulligan'd down to 5?
Listen, I've played a deck like this before, and HAVE won and lost with it. Heck, I even had Serum Powder to make sure I had a killer hand all the time, but that didn't work out too well because FoW on Opalesence, or a Wasteland on Serra's Sanctum basically meant I had no more hand, and I was praying for every spell I wanted to be what I was going to draw.=.= AND This was before Lorwyn was released.
Now, with the addition of Teeg, Quasali, Krosan Grip et al in the meta, it's even harder to play this deck, let alone get "THE HAND" you wanna play with this deck.=.=
But i think you are missunderstanding some things that are relevant in the development of the deck.
Like Drajover said we are no dumn so if the opponent go first and begins with wasteland (which is a very strange scenario) i´ll play another land like flagstones of trokair and so and wait to have a tutor or a suppression field in play to pley my sanctum. Because we have flagostones if you crop it you can search two lands wich usually is enough to reach the count of 3-4 lands to play all enchantments of the deck minus leyline of the void and lightning). YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY SANCTUM WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO WIN, don´t forget that.
This deck has 4 runed halo to protect yourself against the first damages the opponent can cause you (halo to nacatl, goyf or so, even it stops tendrils) and suppression field to slow them down. If you cast a field qasali cost 3 to activate wich means it´s at least the third turn wich is enough to win for your deck. If you are afraid of gaddock teeg and qasalis play JOURNEY TO NOWHERE MD. I´m playing it in SDB but I think you can remove at least a couple of red leylines or more if you want to play a couple or a set of this card.
Krosan grip is a SIDEBOARD CARD in alsmot every deck in the fromat so if they have grip in sdb we have REPLENISH in ours. This card can solve all the problematic cards you are afraid of (minus teeg).
FOw to opalescence slows us, but we have lot of win cons and spells that protect or sslows down the opponent so i think you can pass trough it. If you are afraid of fow, the play "city of solitude" but i think this is another SDB card.
Field is awesome. The other day i begin with 2 x leyline, sanctum and field and my opponent have 2 fetches in hand. He played the fetches but couldn activate them and couldn´t play daze (wich he has 2 x in his hand) and when he recovers it was too late.
I still don´t like red leyline. Is a card that we can cast and when i draw it always hate having them in the deck.
I´m still thinking about another win condition. I´ve seen yavimaya enchantress but she has no evasion so i´m still looking for something.
Listen, I've played a deck like this before, and HAVE won and lost with it. Heck, I even had Serum Powder to make sure I had a killer hand all the time, but that didn't work out too well because FoW on Opalesence, or a Wasteland on Serra's Sanctum basically meant I had no more hand, and I was praying for every spell I wanted to be what I was going to draw.=.= AND This was before Lorwyn was released.
Now, with the addition of Teeg, Quasali, Krosan Grip et al in the meta, it's even harder to play this deck, let alone get "THE HAND" you wanna play with this deck.=.=
Er I don't know how you're doing the math but i've re checked my calcs and it's right without mulligans. Of course there's other considerations. if you're not drawing them that often then I'm putting it down to your bad luck.
Getting FoWed or Wastelanded doesn't have anything to do with what your opening hand consists of so I don't understand your arguement. Any deck has the potential of getting FoWed and if your a deck that runes non basics (90% of the meta) you'll get wastelanded. Might as well not play.
On another note. What about living wish instead of crop rotation. It doesnt allow for turn 1 search into serra sanctum but it does provide utility in that you can search for utility creatures as well as serra sanctum or any other land really that we may want to put in.
Er I don't know how you're doing the math but i've re checked my calcs and it's right without mulligans. Of course there's other considerations. if you're not drawing them that often then I'm putting it down to your bad luck.
Getting FoWed or Wastelanded doesn't have anything to do with what your opening hand consists of so I don't understand your arguement. Any deck has the potential of getting FoWed and if your a deck that runes non basics (90% of the meta) you'll get wastelanded. Might as well not play.
On another note. What about living wish instead of crop rotation. It doesnt allow for turn 1 search into serra sanctum but it does provide utility in that you can search for utility creatures as well as serra sanctum or any other land really that we may want to put in.
Check your calculations again, this time consider how the hell are you gonna get an initial hand of 4-5 Leylines and 1 Serra's Sanctum AND a Win con, OR a hand of 4-5 Leylines, 1 green mana producer, crop rotation, AND a win con.
Chances of having the hand you want in this deck is slim! This would result into mulliganing your hand, as previously stated by zabusa to justify the NOT protecting the enchantments.=.=
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I think you want everything in the opening hands. I´ve won lot of matches with 3 or even 2 leylines on the first hand. The thing is that you want to play as much leylines as you can in the opening hand but is more important having crop rotation or sanctum than more leylines. You can´t search the GOD hand in every game because it´s impossible. Because of that we play another enchantments to disrupt the opponent game till you combo out.
Prrotecting the enchantments is good but it´s more important to disrupt (runed halo, suppresion field, root maze) than protecting encchantments because you have replenish to recover it if needed.
As your Leyline require being in your openning hand for their no mana cost, I strongly suggest 4 x Serum Powder If you need to mulligan, which at times you will for this kind of deck, probably more than other decks, SP will at least give you a full hand.
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Hrm, is 3 months too long to necro a thread? Sorry if this is a faux pas...
Anyway, this is a cool deck if mildly inconsistent - and definitely gets your opponent scratching their heads. One thing I love is that enchantment hate isn't necessarily the most prevalent thing in legacy (plenty of artifact, GY and creature hate, sure).
So, based on the really nice list Zabuza posted in December, I've been testing out Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Spawnwrithe as extra threats/win cons (that also both have a cute synergy with the white Leyline). Also, Parallax Wave with the errata being reversed is obviously now insane with Opalescence (removing itself with the last fade counter, coming back into play with 5 - really resilient 'infinite' creature removal).
I wonder if anyone else has some bright ideas for tuning the deck.
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Currently Playing Legacy
:symr::symb: Goblins Dragon Stompy
:symw::symb::symg: Dark Horizons
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
Well, M11 is giving us more Leylines to play so now we can play 32 leylines ;): IT could be great for this deck. What do you think??
lol when I built my first Leyline deck (years ago) I remember telling myself "gee I wish there was another leyline I could use". I hated the blue legendary maker because I kept having problems with the number of leylines in my openhand so I tossed the deck away.
wow, this deck is going to rock with more leylines...
Should hopefully solve the problem of topdecking an off-colour Leyline that you can't cast (ie. Leyline of Lightning) halfway through the game. Can't wait to rework this deck, very exciting...!
EDIT: So far the red, blue and black (Leyline of the Void reprint) have been spoiled that I can see....fingers crossed for some nice new White/Green leylines, chaps!
Why not use 8 green leyline, 8 white leyline, 4 black + urborg, tomb of yawgmoth so that all of your leylines are castable? seems better than random jank uncastable U or R.
EDIT: took out 2 elvish spirit guides for a karakas(vs. reanimator decks, show and tell decks, marit lage tokens, and gaddock teeg) and Oblivion ring for tutorable random removal .
Anyway, I like the Idea of getting Replenish in this deck. Helps against Mass Removal effects on our Enchantments, but it still is 4cc..:/
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:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Like any deck it´s not perfect, but having chances of protecting your land sometimes is something to be considered.
I´m thinking on playing prismatic omen. This card is an enchantment and if i play 4 of these i could play basic forests that will tap for W if needed. I´m thinking if it could be an option.
Perhaps root maze could be another option to slow down the oppoenent but not sure yet about it.
what do you think?
More ideas?
Whatever the case may be, why play your serra's if your not using it? Play another land and since this deck relies heavily on its speed. Why would you keep a hand that doesnt let you do something turn 1 or 2
Because you mulligan'd down to 5?
Listen, I've played a deck like this before, and HAVE won and lost with it. Heck, I even had Serum Powder to make sure I had a killer hand all the time, but that didn't work out too well because FoW on Opalesence, or a Wasteland on Serra's Sanctum basically meant I had no more hand, and I was praying for every spell I wanted to be what I was going to draw.=.= AND This was before Lorwyn was released.
Now, with the addition of Teeg, Quasali, Krosan Grip et al in the meta, it's even harder to play this deck, let alone get "THE HAND" you wanna play with this deck.=.=
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
But i think you are missunderstanding some things that are relevant in the development of the deck.
Like Drajover said we are no dumn so if the opponent go first and begins with wasteland (which is a very strange scenario) i´ll play another land like flagstones of trokair and so and wait to have a tutor or a suppression field in play to pley my sanctum. Because we have flagostones if you crop it you can search two lands wich usually is enough to reach the count of 3-4 lands to play all enchantments of the deck minus leyline of the void and lightning). YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY SANCTUM WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO WIN, don´t forget that.
This deck has 4 runed halo to protect yourself against the first damages the opponent can cause you (halo to nacatl, goyf or so, even it stops tendrils) and suppression field to slow them down. If you cast a field qasali cost 3 to activate wich means it´s at least the third turn wich is enough to win for your deck. If you are afraid of gaddock teeg and qasalis play JOURNEY TO NOWHERE MD. I´m playing it in SDB but I think you can remove at least a couple of red leylines or more if you want to play a couple or a set of this card.
Krosan grip is a SIDEBOARD CARD in alsmot every deck in the fromat so if they have grip in sdb we have REPLENISH in ours. This card can solve all the problematic cards you are afraid of (minus teeg).
FOw to opalescence slows us, but we have lot of win cons and spells that protect or sslows down the opponent so i think you can pass trough it. If you are afraid of fow, the play "city of solitude" but i think this is another SDB card.
Field is awesome. The other day i begin with 2 x leyline, sanctum and field and my opponent have 2 fetches in hand. He played the fetches but couldn activate them and couldn´t play daze (wich he has 2 x in his hand) and when he recovers it was too late.
I still don´t like red leyline. Is a card that we can cast and when i draw it always hate having them in the deck.
I´m still thinking about another win condition. I´ve seen yavimaya enchantress but she has no evasion so i´m still looking for something.
Any more ideas?
Er I don't know how you're doing the math but i've re checked my calcs and it's right without mulligans. Of course there's other considerations. if you're not drawing them that often then I'm putting it down to your bad luck.
Getting FoWed or Wastelanded doesn't have anything to do with what your opening hand consists of so I don't understand your arguement. Any deck has the potential of getting FoWed and if your a deck that runes non basics (90% of the meta) you'll get wastelanded. Might as well not play.
On another note. What about living wish instead of crop rotation. It doesnt allow for turn 1 search into serra sanctum but it does provide utility in that you can search for utility creatures as well as serra sanctum or any other land really that we may want to put in.
Check your calculations again, this time consider how the hell are you gonna get an initial hand of 4-5 Leylines and 1 Serra's Sanctum AND a Win con, OR a hand of 4-5 Leylines, 1 green mana producer, crop rotation, AND a win con.
Chances of having the hand you want in this deck is slim! This would result into mulliganing your hand, as previously stated by zabusa to justify the NOT protecting the enchantments.=.=
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Prrotecting the enchantments is good but it´s more important to disrupt (runed halo, suppresion field, root maze) than protecting encchantments because you have replenish to recover it if needed.
Anyway, this is a cool deck if mildly inconsistent - and definitely gets your opponent scratching their heads. One thing I love is that enchantment hate isn't necessarily the most prevalent thing in legacy (plenty of artifact, GY and creature hate, sure).
So, based on the really nice list Zabuza posted in December, I've been testing out Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Spawnwrithe as extra threats/win cons (that also both have a cute synergy with the white Leyline). Also, Parallax Wave with the errata being reversed is obviously now insane with Opalescence (removing itself with the last fade counter, coming back into play with 5 - really resilient 'infinite' creature removal).
I wonder if anyone else has some bright ideas for tuning the deck.
Legacy
:symr::symb: Goblins
Dragon Stompy
:symw::symb::symg: Dark Horizons
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
lol when I built my first Leyline deck (years ago) I remember telling myself "gee I wish there was another leyline I could use". I hated the blue legendary maker because I kept having problems with the number of leylines in my openhand so I tossed the deck away.
wow, this deck is going to rock with more leylines...
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
EDIT: So far the red, blue and black (Leyline of the Void reprint) have been spoiled that I can see....fingers crossed for some nice new White/Green leylines, chaps!
Legacy
:symr::symb: Goblins
Dragon Stompy
:symw::symb::symg: Dark Horizons
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
4 leyline of sanctity
4 leyline of the meek
4 leyline of the void
4 leyline of vitality
4 opalescence
1 idyllic tutor
4 enlightened tutor
1 sylvan scrying
4 crop rotation
4 suppression field
1 helm of obedience
2 rise of the hobgoblins
1 replenish
1 oblivion ring
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 savannah
1 gaea's cradle
4 serra's sanctum
4 horizon canopy
2 flagstones of trokair
Sideboard
4 baneslayer angel
3 replenish
3 ghostly prison
1 helm of obedience
EDIT: took out 2 elvish spirit guides for a karakas(vs. reanimator decks, show and tell decks, marit lage tokens, and gaddock teeg) and Oblivion ring for tutorable random removal .