Meaning, SDT is a mana sink, pays 1 to cast, 1 to use. This deck is just full of hate and answers and spending that 2 mana, early game, is tempo disadvantage, because it doesn't do anything, or rather does nothing. You're fixing your draws and setting up to do something but you just spent 2 mana not doing anything. Confidant is CA, Hymn to tourach is tempo, and this is an aggressive deck. The benefit from top is mild at best and it does slow down your clock.
Bingo.
SDT does not further your game plan, eats your tempo, and doesnt fix any problems with great enough effacacy to warrant inclusion. Yeah, you can say "it saves life with bob!" but that's just cute, and won't matter in 99% of games, maybe even tempting you to spend mana on something irrelevant. Hell, I'd be tempted to say that top would lose more games than it would win by causing you to foolishly spend resources on something that doesnt really effect the game state.
Games where you're digging with top, it wouldn't have mattered because you were already far ahead on resources OR it doesn't matter because you're behind and a pseudo-brainstorm won't help, making it technically "win more" or "lose more" instead of something "relevant".
Top in Deadguy is just a crutch for people who don't know how to mulligan or know the correct lines of play in the situations they encounter. Harsh, but I've been playing the deck for years and this is the conclusion that I and the rest of the NY BZK guys have come to.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Well, it is your choice to spend mana on the top you got out. If your hand and board state reads you got a solid grip on the game, and your mana is better spent on something else, then by all means don't activate Top.
But if you're in top deck mode and need to find something to turn the tides. You want top to help you find it. What good would a Jitte be for example, if you can't find creatures to equip it with? Or your creatures if you can't find removal to punch through their Terrastadon or whatever.
There are have been people piloting this deck with 2-3 SDT's to top 8 results only two month's back. So saying that it doesn't have a place in this deck at all is quite wrong IMO. It may slow down your clock at times, but it can also speed things up for you by making sure you draw what you want/need.
The slot is open for personal preference, and by all means, not a MUST use card.
EDIT: Besides, this deck runs few instants, so EOT activate top doesn't really slow down your use of mana. You'd be holding mana open for Swords to Plowshares, why not use the unused mana on TOP if StP goes doesn't have a target that turn?
So this whole tempo aggressive deck idea is the same reason why merfolk doesn't run brainstorm:
1. Tempo You have no key cards that MUST resolve every game.
This is a synergistic, and consistent deck. SDT is a redundancy the same way that brainstorm is redundant in merfolk.
I mean, what are you hopping to see? Land, creature, and a removal or disruption spell? Yes top helps in top deck mode, but by that time you should already have board position and you're either winning or losing, either way SDT doesn't really help that much.
2. Extrapolation If it really was as powerful as people keep insisting that it is, every single deck would run 3-4, to help out for when they get in topdeck mode. The only decks that run top are those that fit it into the game plan and abuse it, namely countertop, and combo decks that need to dig and find key spells.
This deck does neither. Your argument might as well be "We should run 4x platinum angel, it's great late game, and you can't lose! no more worrying about confidant killing you!" Yes it's a good card, yes it can work well with some of the cards in this deck. No it doesn't fit the deck's theme and function with what the deck is trying to accomplish, much like platinum angel.
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Maverick -- Storm Click here for trade thread
Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
The point is that you shouldn't have that sort of mana left. During your formative turns, like 1-4 so early to mid game you should be tapping out for disruption every turn unless your opponent mulls to 4 and you have nothing left to disrupt. Top has no place in these turns, as it doesnt further your game plan.
During your later turns, turn 4+, any sort of card filtering is going to be useful, I'll concede that point. But as anybody who has played the deck knows, Deadguy has won or lost by turn 4 if not earlier since every deck in the format plays bigger creatures and better card filtering/CA by that point. Since top is not useful during these formative turns, except under very strange circumstances, it COULD be something that you could use to further your game plan and be a more consistent deck. So by adding in top to "filter your cards" you're sacrificing valuable mana AND card slots during formative turns.
NINJA'D!! Aaaand Lukinda beat me to it again, and I again agree 100%.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Well, again, good arguments except for the one where you compare SDT with Platinum Angel. I mean, get serious.
I still think that you guys are underestimating the abilities that SDT can offer. But, as I said earlier. Its an open slot. I like having an active SDT in my turn 3 or later. Why? because it gives me relevant cards when I need them.
How can you be tapping out for disruption when you don't draw them? Or don't draw the right ones. You got Hymn, but you need Swords to Plowshare or the other way around. You got their hand to zero, but where are your creatures? SDT gives you a way to make sure you get to pile up the pressure after turn 3 when you've used your Dark Rit, Duress, Hymn etc.
Consider a hand like Dark Rit, Land, Duress, Hymn, Jitte, Land, Swords to Plow.
Now exchange Jitte with SDT. You'll have an explosive start, but then what? If you got SDT you'll at least have a better shot at finding the 2nd hymn or duress or dark confidant to start piling up more pressure. If you replace Jitte with a discard spell or mana hoser. What then? you'd still be on top deck mode hoping to find relevant threats/answers.
The reality is that this deck doesn't always have relevant spells in the mid/late-game. This deck has actually a good portion of potentially dead top deck draws (Dark Ritual for example). You need your early hand/mana disruption. Then you need to find your creatures and start attacking. At this phase, your hand disruption cards are more or less irelevant, until your opponent gets to a couple of cards in his hands again. Here is when you want to draw that creature a turn before that land, or dark ritual or hymn etc.
EDIT:
Over to a different discussion. What are your thoughts on Inquisition of Kozilek vs Duress vs Thoughtseize in this deck? Also, Extirpate and or Pithing Needle in the sideboard
Your opponent will not have much of a hand, and you will remove their creature with that hand. You are either going to draw into further disruption or a creature. That creature will be better with a jitte than with a top. After the initial disruption maintaining disruption is huge. Top prevents you from maintaining disruption by preventing you from actually casting it by paying 1 per turn, or more if you get into the situation where you have to start using it to draw. this is a huge tempo sink in a tempo based deck. Deadguy doesn't win by filtering through your deck to find the god card, it wins by having multiple cards that accomplish the same purpose that you can count on drawing. Jitte also helps with clock and disruption, either by utilizing counters for +2 +2 or for taking out whatever problem creatures they are finally able to play. Jitte also helps you abuse bob further if that is the first creature you see.
Top is utilized for sculpting hands. Combo and control are decks that need to utilize this ability. Tempo based strategies do not. They rely on redundancy in the design of the deck to make up for their lack of card draw. In the case of deadguy you accomplish this with efficient hand disruption, mana disruption, creature and permanent removal and efficient beaters and a curve that can be abused by one of the best CA sources in the format (Bob). If you are using top to protect you from bob, you have the wrong cards in your deck. you really don't want to be playing a very high curve so that you can maintain tempo and play multiple spells when you need to do so.
IN conclusion
SDT makes this deck slower, which virtually negates the tempo advantage gained early. Deck construction and attention to redundancy negate the need for top and allow for maximizing the tempo game.
also, thoughtseize over duress. It is strictly better, even with bob, because of the increased flexibility it grants. It's a proactive swords.
on your final point:
I know we had Extirpate in the board. But I don't believe we had pithing needle. You have vindicate for annoying permanents.
I don't get the point where you guys are claiming this deck can't support enough mana to play both 1 or 2 disrption pieces AND use a single mana EOT for SDT's activation. I mean, are you all playing with 2 lands the entire game?
The deck even runs Dark Ritual. If you have 3 mana in play you have more than enough mana to do whatever you want to do in your turn AND spare one for Swords to Plowshare, which if isn't used, you can use that spare mana to activate SDT!
Anyway, I've said my points and you have said yours. Let just give it a rest and let the ones who are new to this deck read the arguments and decide for themselves.
RE: which one-drop discard:
I agree that Thoughtseize is better than Duress, but I'm starting to feel that IoK is moving close to being the best of the two worlds, IF the lifeloss from seize has some minor impact on game results, which it sometimes has. IoK has a lot of can't do. But it can take the majority of relevant spells in the format. Plus its draw back is minimalized by all the support of mana denial and other hand disruption spells used together with it.
When you Duress turn 1 or 2, you almost always want to take you opponents early game or card sifting/enabler etc. I don't even usually take their Force of Will, because if they use it. Duress just became a 2 for 1.
RE: Pithing Needle:
Yes we have Vindicate, but it does not have Split Second. While Needle doesn't have Split Second as well, it does solve a lot of problems perhaps better than Vindicate, Needle is cheaper and can stop combos like CounterTop easier by pre-emptivly stoping one of its combo pieces. And I guess, this is the key word. How often do we want to "pre-emptivly" stop a permenent? Planeswalkers, pesky land abilities, creature abilities etc.
Im running two Inquisition of Kozilek and two dures because i dont like T1: marsh flats, untapped godless shrine, thought seize = T1 15 life. I thunk though that im going to start playing more inquisition than duress because often i find myself wishing i had the inquisition instead.
And on SDT I run two because mid game it really kicks some ass. early game it does mess up tempo but mid game it takes away some of the damage from Bob and alows you to smooth out your draws and if theres nothing good three cards down you can sac a land and try again which is a very useful tool.
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
I can understand not running seize when you don't have scrublands. I however advise that you get your hands on scrublands as soon as you can. Your life is an important resource and when you need to utilize marginally inferior cards due to life loss from other permanents and marginally impedes your tempo. Inquisition looks better here due to your ability to disrupt mana available, though I would probably keep some duress in the side to help with combo or something like that. Not being able to hit Ad Naus would make me kinda sad - though you do hit just about all the tutors
Again on top helping with life loss from bob. Your curve stops at three, and you run 6(ish) cards that gain you life.
I will get them one day
But getting hit with 3 damage 3 times in a row really hurts. I supose it depends on your meta though, in an aggro meta the life gain really makes a difference.
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
I finally had the chance to pilot my take on Pikula this wednesday at out weekly local Legacy tournament. There were about 15 players enrolled, I finished 2nd. Beat GW Elf Aggro 2-0, ShowAndTell-Hypergenesis-Emrakul 2-0 and UR Painter Combo 2-0, losing to a Legacy-port of Foodchain Goblins 1-2 (mostly due to severe mana screw, I might add ;)). I'm happy with how the deck performed, and consider continue playing and enhacing it. My current list is as follows:
I recently tweaked the list to reflect changes in our local meta (no Reanimator present at all). If you're looking to beat that specific deck, run 3 or 4 Faerie Macabre instead of critters that might suck in your meta.
Burrenton Forge-Tender is huge these days here as everybody and their dog seem to be running Firespout, and it helped a great deal driving the Goblins player closer towards insanity Spectral Lynx was added to the list because of that, too - he's also awesome against anything aggro-ish in Bant's colors, and regenerate saved my butt a few times as well. Great with equipment strapped onto it.
The variety of critters with built-in protection makes it rather easy to find the right piece of equipment that makes it imperative for the opponent to answer the equipment (rather than the critter, which he possibly cannot answer at all) asap, or face certain doom. Finding equipment, of course, is easy with Stoneforge Mystic and the raw drawing power Dark Confidant packs. The user is encouraged to offset the lifeloss the latter critter (besides Thoughtseize) induces by using Vampire Nighthawks and suitable equipment.
Sideboard cards I also considered were Planar Void (useless vs. Ichorid, but pretty strong in hating the yard elsewhere) and Executioner's Capsule. I'd have to look into my deckbox to check what I actually brought to the table two days ago in the flex spots, as I don't recall right now.
I'd get rid of Gerrard's Verdict. It's probably one of the worst 2-for-1s one can find. Instead, up the Hymn to Tourach count to four, and get something that makes more sense into that other two slots that'll free up that way. I'm not sure what Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood are doing in your list, either - they trade two life and two mana (at sorcery speed) for a net card gain of one. That's just not very strong in Eternal.
@Greeny: there's no Zoo around here normally, but I don't think I'd stand much of a chance against a sound list of that beast. That, however, doesn't mean the list was designed without Zoo in mind. There are quite a few critters in my list that could prove problematic to Zoo due to their built-in protection, and if you're lucky enough to be able to strap the right equipment onto one, you still might be able to ride this to victory. I guess that if you make it to three mana, you can stand a chance. You'd probably have to adjust the sideboard to be able to beat Zoo; mine's mainly targeting the (storm) combo matchup.
I haven't had the chance yet to play versus 16lord Merfolk, yet beating lists that were running Standstil during the initial construction of the deck was quite easy. Stoneforge Mystic is rather backbreaking to Merfolk, and the strong discard paired with the best removal in the format give them a really hard time in my experience.
Concerning the manabase, I'm not sure about it myself, either I'm fairly certain I will continue to run Wasteland, and maybe up the count to four. The manabase is stable enough so that the deck can afford running colourless sources, and winning "accidentially" due to double-Wasteland has happened to me a few times already. It's also one of your outs against Maze of Ith if you have a hard time keeping multiple critters around.
Gatekeeper is a meta decision. If you happen to have Progenitus and Emrakul shoved down your throat every once in a while, it's a solid critter for sure. Getting to BBB can be a problem in a BW build, of course. Nighthawk's just really solid. It gets totally nuts once you have one of the Swords attached to it, but it's a force to be reckoned with on its own, too. It also helps recovering from Thoughtseize and Confidant. I consider it having done its job admirably if it connects once and then goes on to eat removal or take an opposing critter with it. Too bad it gets hit by Lightning Bolt that easily (and hard).
Yes, netting a card is good in Legacy, I agree with you on that 100%. Paying two life for a card doesn't bother me all that much either (you see, I'm running Thoughtseize in my list, because it's awesome - and that doesn't even provide card advantage ;)). I'd probably consider running Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood if they weren't sorceries - that way, I could at least avoid being timewalked (two mana during your main phase is quite a lot, don't you agree?) and net that card I crave for so much during my opponent's end step, when the dust has settled and chances are slim I'd have used those two mana for anything useful, anyway. It's the combination of loss of tempo, loss of life and somewhat marginal impact on game state that make me not want to play either of these cards.
And yes, please do post your matchup analysis. More data is always appreciated
It would be easier on us if you'd post your MU-analysis on the go here, instead of editing your previous post. But that's just me.
Im thinking Gatekeeper would be doing a good job vs decks like New Horizons/Tresh as well as Big hitter decks like Eldrazi/Reanimate. On the other hand, Nighthawk just seem too good to pass.
Maybe pithing needle? costs 1 and stops Survival of the Fittest and Sensei's Divining Top. I use to run seal of cleansing in the SB but swapped to needle. And engineered plague against merfolk, goblins, faeries and elves, not that the last two are much of a problem.
Edit: Heres my current build, though I just swapped stuff around so I haven't had a chance to take it to a tournament yet:
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
I'm main decking Jötun Grunts, so I could probably live with 2x Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt in the grave and make room for the 4th Engineered Plague.
I really want to make room for 2-3 Pithing Needles in here, the only card I'm unsure about are the Aura of Silence.
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
I'd take a closer look at Enlightened Tutor if I were you, it really is awesome if you run a toolbox that makes sense in your meta. You can sacrifice a bit of redundancy then, and go for a more diverse selection of hate for different strategies.
I suppose it depends on your meta, but I would rather have the needle because it is more versatile. Thats not to say that Perish isnt good. So if you want to keep the Perish then cut the aura of silence
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
Aura is good against SDT as well, and stax strategies. And IMO only decent against random artifact/enchantments because of its 3cc. If I take out Aura, I still got Vindicate for the random artifact/enchantments though, so Needle is probably the best way to go?
Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
Would you guys board in Needle vs Goblins? Or is it enough packing Plagues against them? Maybe a couple of Extirpates would help out too?
I've been pondering about cutting down to 21 lands. But with Elspeth in the game now, I'm thinking its better safe than sorry with the land count.
Elspeth has been a house. Especially on those games when you get the fast start with Ritual, discard T1. Then follow up with a critter and Vindicate/Wasteland then drop Elspeth and tap a guy with +3+3 and wings.
Bingo.
SDT does not further your game plan, eats your tempo, and doesnt fix any problems with great enough effacacy to warrant inclusion. Yeah, you can say "it saves life with bob!" but that's just cute, and won't matter in 99% of games, maybe even tempting you to spend mana on something irrelevant. Hell, I'd be tempted to say that top would lose more games than it would win by causing you to foolishly spend resources on something that doesnt really effect the game state.
Games where you're digging with top, it wouldn't have mattered because you were already far ahead on resources OR it doesn't matter because you're behind and a pseudo-brainstorm won't help, making it technically "win more" or "lose more" instead of something "relevant".
Top in Deadguy is just a crutch for people who don't know how to mulligan or know the correct lines of play in the situations they encounter. Harsh, but I've been playing the deck for years and this is the conclusion that I and the rest of the NY BZK guys have come to.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
But if you're in top deck mode and need to find something to turn the tides. You want top to help you find it. What good would a Jitte be for example, if you can't find creatures to equip it with? Or your creatures if you can't find removal to punch through their Terrastadon or whatever.
There are have been people piloting this deck with 2-3 SDT's to top 8 results only two month's back. So saying that it doesn't have a place in this deck at all is quite wrong IMO. It may slow down your clock at times, but it can also speed things up for you by making sure you draw what you want/need.
The slot is open for personal preference, and by all means, not a MUST use card.
EDIT: Besides, this deck runs few instants, so EOT activate top doesn't really slow down your use of mana. You'd be holding mana open for Swords to Plowshares, why not use the unused mana on TOP if StP goes doesn't have a target that turn?
1. Tempo You have no key cards that MUST resolve every game.
This is a synergistic, and consistent deck. SDT is a redundancy the same way that brainstorm is redundant in merfolk.
I mean, what are you hopping to see? Land, creature, and a removal or disruption spell? Yes top helps in top deck mode, but by that time you should already have board position and you're either winning or losing, either way SDT doesn't really help that much.
2. Extrapolation If it really was as powerful as people keep insisting that it is, every single deck would run 3-4, to help out for when they get in topdeck mode. The only decks that run top are those that fit it into the game plan and abuse it, namely countertop, and combo decks that need to dig and find key spells.
This deck does neither. Your argument might as well be "We should run 4x platinum angel, it's great late game, and you can't lose! no more worrying about confidant killing you!" Yes it's a good card, yes it can work well with some of the cards in this deck. No it doesn't fit the deck's theme and function with what the deck is trying to accomplish, much like platinum angel.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
During your later turns, turn 4+, any sort of card filtering is going to be useful, I'll concede that point. But as anybody who has played the deck knows, Deadguy has won or lost by turn 4 if not earlier since every deck in the format plays bigger creatures and better card filtering/CA by that point. Since top is not useful during these formative turns, except under very strange circumstances, it COULD be something that you could use to further your game plan and be a more consistent deck. So by adding in top to "filter your cards" you're sacrificing valuable mana AND card slots during formative turns.
NINJA'D!! Aaaand Lukinda beat me to it again, and I again agree 100%.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I still think that you guys are underestimating the abilities that SDT can offer. But, as I said earlier. Its an open slot. I like having an active SDT in my turn 3 or later. Why? because it gives me relevant cards when I need them.
How can you be tapping out for disruption when you don't draw them? Or don't draw the right ones. You got Hymn, but you need Swords to Plowshare or the other way around. You got their hand to zero, but where are your creatures? SDT gives you a way to make sure you get to pile up the pressure after turn 3 when you've used your Dark Rit, Duress, Hymn etc.
Consider a hand like Dark Rit, Land, Duress, Hymn, Jitte, Land, Swords to Plow.
Now exchange Jitte with SDT. You'll have an explosive start, but then what? If you got SDT you'll at least have a better shot at finding the 2nd hymn or duress or dark confidant to start piling up more pressure. If you replace Jitte with a discard spell or mana hoser. What then? you'd still be on top deck mode hoping to find relevant threats/answers.
The reality is that this deck doesn't always have relevant spells in the mid/late-game. This deck has actually a good portion of potentially dead top deck draws (Dark Ritual for example). You need your early hand/mana disruption. Then you need to find your creatures and start attacking. At this phase, your hand disruption cards are more or less irelevant, until your opponent gets to a couple of cards in his hands again. Here is when you want to draw that creature a turn before that land, or dark ritual or hymn etc.
EDIT:
Over to a different discussion. What are your thoughts on Inquisition of Kozilek vs Duress vs Thoughtseize in this deck? Also, Extirpate and or Pithing Needle in the sideboard
Top is utilized for sculpting hands. Combo and control are decks that need to utilize this ability. Tempo based strategies do not. They rely on redundancy in the design of the deck to make up for their lack of card draw. In the case of deadguy you accomplish this with efficient hand disruption, mana disruption, creature and permanent removal and efficient beaters and a curve that can be abused by one of the best CA sources in the format (Bob). If you are using top to protect you from bob, you have the wrong cards in your deck. you really don't want to be playing a very high curve so that you can maintain tempo and play multiple spells when you need to do so.
IN conclusion
SDT makes this deck slower, which virtually negates the tempo advantage gained early. Deck construction and attention to redundancy negate the need for top and allow for maximizing the tempo game.
also, thoughtseize over duress. It is strictly better, even with bob, because of the increased flexibility it grants. It's a proactive swords.
on your final point:
I know we had Extirpate in the board. But I don't believe we had pithing needle. You have vindicate for annoying permanents.
The deck even runs Dark Ritual. If you have 3 mana in play you have more than enough mana to do whatever you want to do in your turn AND spare one for Swords to Plowshare, which if isn't used, you can use that spare mana to activate SDT!
Anyway, I've said my points and you have said yours. Let just give it a rest and let the ones who are new to this deck read the arguments and decide for themselves.
RE: which one-drop discard:
I agree that Thoughtseize is better than Duress, but I'm starting to feel that IoK is moving close to being the best of the two worlds, IF the lifeloss from seize has some minor impact on game results, which it sometimes has. IoK has a lot of can't do. But it can take the majority of relevant spells in the format. Plus its draw back is minimalized by all the support of mana denial and other hand disruption spells used together with it.
When you Duress turn 1 or 2, you almost always want to take you opponents early game or card sifting/enabler etc. I don't even usually take their Force of Will, because if they use it. Duress just became a 2 for 1.
RE: Pithing Needle:
Yes we have Vindicate, but it does not have Split Second. While Needle doesn't have Split Second as well, it does solve a lot of problems perhaps better than Vindicate, Needle is cheaper and can stop combos like CounterTop easier by pre-emptivly stoping one of its combo pieces. And I guess, this is the key word. How often do we want to "pre-emptivly" stop a permenent? Planeswalkers, pesky land abilities, creature abilities etc.
And on SDT I run two because mid game it really kicks some ass. early game it does mess up tempo but mid game it takes away some of the damage from Bob and alows you to smooth out your draws and if theres nothing good three cards down you can sac a land and try again which is a very useful tool.
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
Again on top helping with life loss from bob. Your curve stops at three, and you run 6(ish) cards that gain you life.
But getting hit with 3 damage 3 times in a row really hurts. I supose it depends on your meta though, in an aggro meta the life gain really makes a difference.
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
What are our chances vs todays burn decks for example? Or loam decks.
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Æther Vial
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Spectral Lynx
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 flex spots at your choice
I recently tweaked the list to reflect changes in our local meta (no Reanimator present at all). If you're looking to beat that specific deck, run 3 or 4 Faerie Macabre instead of critters that might suck in your meta.
Burrenton Forge-Tender is huge these days here as everybody and their dog seem to be running Firespout, and it helped a great deal driving the Goblins player closer towards insanity Spectral Lynx was added to the list because of that, too - he's also awesome against anything aggro-ish in Bant's colors, and regenerate saved my butt a few times as well. Great with equipment strapped onto it.
The variety of critters with built-in protection makes it rather easy to find the right piece of equipment that makes it imperative for the opponent to answer the equipment (rather than the critter, which he possibly cannot answer at all) asap, or face certain doom. Finding equipment, of course, is easy with Stoneforge Mystic and the raw drawing power Dark Confidant packs. The user is encouraged to offset the lifeloss the latter critter (besides Thoughtseize) induces by using Vampire Nighthawks and suitable equipment.
Sideboard cards I also considered were Planar Void (useless vs. Ichorid, but pretty strong in hating the yard elsewhere) and Executioner's Capsule. I'd have to look into my deckbox to check what I actually brought to the table two days ago in the flex spots, as I don't recall right now.
I haven't had the chance yet to play versus 16lord Merfolk, yet beating lists that were running Standstil during the initial construction of the deck was quite easy. Stoneforge Mystic is rather backbreaking to Merfolk, and the strong discard paired with the best removal in the format give them a really hard time in my experience.
Concerning the manabase, I'm not sure about it myself, either I'm fairly certain I will continue to run Wasteland, and maybe up the count to four. The manabase is stable enough so that the deck can afford running colourless sources, and winning "accidentially" due to double-Wasteland has happened to me a few times already. It's also one of your outs against Maze of Ith if you have a hard time keeping multiple critters around.
Gatekeeper is a meta decision. If you happen to have Progenitus and Emrakul shoved down your throat every once in a while, it's a solid critter for sure. Getting to BBB can be a problem in a BW build, of course. Nighthawk's just really solid. It gets totally nuts once you have one of the Swords attached to it, but it's a force to be reckoned with on its own, too. It also helps recovering from Thoughtseize and Confidant. I consider it having done its job admirably if it connects once and then goes on to eat removal or take an opposing critter with it. Too bad it gets hit by Lightning Bolt that easily (and hard).
And yes, please do post your matchup analysis. More data is always appreciated
Im thinking Gatekeeper would be doing a good job vs decks like New Horizons/Tresh as well as Big hitter decks like Eldrazi/Reanimate. On the other hand, Nighthawk just seem too good to pass.
Edit: Heres my current build, though I just swapped stuff around so I haven't had a chance to take it to a tournament yet:
Creatures (16)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Hypnotic Specter
2x Nyxathid
2x Vampire Nighthawk
Artifacts (6)
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x The Rack
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Sorceries (18)
4x Vindicate
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Dark Ritual
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Duress
2x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos (Hate these, want Scrubland)
4x Marsh Flats
5x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Fetid Heath
1x Mutavault
2x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Nezumi Shortfang
3x Pithing Needle
4x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
Been thinking of addong the Stoneforge Mystic toolbox, but I dont know where to fit it in?
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
I'm main decking Jötun Grunts, so I could probably live with 2x Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt in the grave and make room for the 4th Engineered Plague.
I really want to make room for 2-3 Pithing Needles in here, the only card I'm unsure about are the Aura of Silence.
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
I'd take a closer look at Enlightened Tutor if I were you, it really is awesome if you run a toolbox that makes sense in your meta. You can sacrifice a bit of redundancy then, and go for a more diverse selection of hate for different strategies.
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
I could go with the Tutor plan. Anyone got a sample list of what an Enlightened Tutor toolbox sideboard looks like.
I think I got most MU's covered with that board I posted. Only thing as I said, is Pithing Needle vs. Aura of Silence.
Needle is good vs Sensei's Divining Top, Aether Vial, Survival of the Fittest, Planeswalkers etc.
Aura is good against SDT as well, and stax strategies. And IMO only decent against random artifact/enchantments because of its 3cc. If I take out Aura, I still got Vindicate for the random artifact/enchantments though, so Needle is probably the best way to go?
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
4 Swamp
2 Plains
Non-Basic Land: 16
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
Artifact: 2
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Creature: 14
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Jötun Grunt
3 Vampire Nighthawk (Gatekeeper of Malakir)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshare
Planeswalker: 2
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sorcery: 12
4 Duress (Inquisition of Kozilek)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
3 Aura of Silence (Pithing Needle)
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
3 Perish
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus (Engineered Plague)
Would you guys board in Needle vs Goblins? Or is it enough packing Plagues against them? Maybe a couple of Extirpates would help out too?
I've been pondering about cutting down to 21 lands. But with Elspeth in the game now, I'm thinking its better safe than sorry with the land count.
Elspeth has been a house. Especially on those games when you get the fast start with Ritual, discard T1. Then follow up with a critter and Vindicate/Wasteland then drop Elspeth and tap a guy with +3+3 and wings.