I´m sorry but i think none of the cards you have posted have a place in the deck. The landfall pump is not better than any of the ones we are playing now and although 12 pumping spells can sound little, believe me, with the power of your guys and tricks like swords + predator they are enough.
About tutors I think they ahve no place here too. This deck tries to kill as fast as possible so wasting time on searching doesn´t sound good with the deck´s gameplan.
About the cards I´ve posted before, What do you think? Which one should you play?
Yeah... Tutors WILL slow the deck down... Wishing for Wasteland is cool against land.dec, but they will get it back with Life from the Loam.
@ Zabuza - Depending how the meta is like, I think Condemn could be your optimal card for the two slots. Six pieces of removal is very playable.
I agree with you on KotR cuz of the grunts. Troll should work fine in you deck. Having the one-sided should is extremely valuable.
I'm still testing out the Vines of Vastwood and I find its quite playable. I do like that suggestion. I did replace the ledgewalker when putting it in and quickly miss its shroud. Considering putting troll or ledgewalker back.
Oh wow!!! I just realized that a large chuck of the deck is immune to Pyroclasm!!! Thats extreme good news!!! Half the creatures in my older build got wiped rather easily with it. Sweet!
Oh wow!!! I just realized that a large chuck of the deck is immune to Pyroclasm!!! Thats extreme good news!!! Half the creatures in my older build got wiped rather easily with it. Sweet!
Yeah, the problem is that people now is playinf firespout instead clasm, so ....
I´ll try the condemn to see how good they are here. THe deck seems very solid so I´m thinking it can do good things.
You need troll ascetic. I´ve tested all the contenders and troll won against all of them. If you cast it, it´s very dificcult to get rid of it and with its CC3 usually dodges CB.
I´ll try the deck and see.
More ideas or suggestions??
pd: vines are good. you only have to keep them and play it in response of opponent trying to remove your kavu or berserked guys giving them a nice bonus when needed. You must not play them as a regular pump spell, so be carefull whith them ;).
I've been doing that with the Vines made some awesome plays. I'm loving it! Best suggesting evar!
Aww... Boo-urns on the Firespout. And there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. At least the predator and grunt can take it.
I'm totally missing the legdewalker. But you make a very convincing point about troll dodge Counterbalance and Chalice of the Void. I thought he was alright before but I just wanted to make the deck as cheap yet powerful as possible. If I do add it in, I think I should add a forest in as well.
this deck actually feels like a zoo with just the red elements removed. I bet it is incredibly consitent. Instead of the wild nactyl and since you already have 7 other turn1creatures, why not nix it for a watchwolf, youre only splashing the r/g revised land just for it, which is kind of a waste. Wolf will have the same power as the nactyl, just more consitency to the deck in my oppinion.
StP should probably be paths, and move the stp to the sideboard if you have room, a 12lifegain off of a dreadnaught is something i forsee you having problems with if you dont get the nut for creatures
If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
I don't know if I agree with your comments. even not playing predator stompy, I've played a lot of fairly competitive green/white builds of aggro or midrange, and 12 life never scared me. them getting an extra basic sure did, though. in zoo, I could see the use for paths over stp...lifegain is bad against a burn deck, 3 color and creature based or otherwise.
I don't know if I agree with your comments. even not playing predator stompy, I've played a lot of fairly competitive green/white builds of aggro or midrange, and 12 life never scared me. them getting an extra basic sure did, though. in zoo, I could see the use for paths over stp...lifegain is bad against a burn deck, 3 color and creature based or otherwise.
against low creature decks, them gaining 12 life may not be quite a problem, but aggro v aggro, it could be the game breaker. I'be played quite a few games that was decided by less than 3 life. Againts most decks StP is the superior choice where their creatures don't break 5 power, but against thoes decks with alot of fat to them, Path is probably better
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If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
admittedly, most of the time I play g/w aggro, I'm playing close to 30 creatures, so 12 life isn't a big deal. how often does it end up aggro on aggro in legacy, though? my meta seems mostly thresh and combo, which my deck is geared towards dealing with...or just downright surprising them with a quick non zoo aggro deck that plays midrange stuff.
well its always heavy on aggro and combo in legacy, But i think its more on the aggro side in casual legacy and competitive legacy tournaments. Theres always ANT combo, but theres soo much to disrupt the combo its nuts, so some careful SB planning, it should come out on the winning end anyways. So them gaining 12 life against another aggro deck could be more nastier than a creature defficent combo deck
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If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
I've been playing this deck for about a year and I rarely regret giving an opponent life. However, Dreadnaught Control is kinda annoying. Only 7 card pre-board can deal with it. What normally happens is that I berserk for the win (forced block) or blow it up with priemages or stp. Even if they gain 12 life through swords, it will either be negated thanks to the predator or I attack for a couple turns. The creatures in this deck are normally big enough to dish damage and the deck rarely runs out of fuel for its small land base. It can survive early to mid game matchs.
Giving lifes to the opponent is not a problem. Invigorate also gives it and nobody question it. THis is because this deck is extremely fast and because this deck has predator which abuse for it. There has been lot of games I´ve won having swords, predator and berserk. STP also works like a pump spell for a berseked kavu.
I played watchwolf lot of time ago and it was good but the problem is that the deck need turn1 creatures beside loam lion. Nacatl is the most 1 drop aggresive creature (paired with lynx but more stable). Because of that i´ve tested lot of replacements (hidden herd, elites, and so) but none convinced me more than nacatl. ANyways if you don´t like it you can cut it.
Condemn are not good. THe drawback of being an attacking creature sometimes is relevant so damn it, I need more removal.
Rise of the Eldrazi may have given us another piece of removal! Oust! Even if its a "sorcery", it may give this deck more of an edge! It can fill that two slots Zabuza needs for his deck. Even I well be testing it out! Seems playable...
I know it's a little too ambitious but you could splash black and play Needlebite Trap...it reverts in your favor all the drawback that your strategy have! (the same as predator)... you could even tap Groove, tap black mana source, and play trap and you efectively payed 2 mana to make the oponent lose 4 life, and gain 5 life for yourself, 9 life swing, in a close matchup that could turn the whole game in your favor!
It appears to be much faster. Pridemage trades with Reverent Silence in terms of resilience. I think that a Doran-colored build would be best, with STP in MD, with Teeg, Pridemage, and other white goodies in SB.
DrJones build on the deck is quite amazing actually. Its pretty well thought out. Reverent Silence is simply grotesque for the fact it can cripple an opponent when you False Cure and/or Kavu Predator. Its also awesome against control, cuz once one or the other is out, they can't counter their life gain that puts you to the advantage! Needlebite Trap seems like a win more card, I dunno, doesn't click for me. But thats my opinion.
Anywho... Thats kind of a differant deck. Its kinda aggro/combo, a completely differant direction. This deck is an early to mid-range aggro deck and doesn't rely on a couple cards to operate well. Every card in this deck is threatening in the aggro aspect and rarely runs shy of gas. It maybe not as explosive as the false cure build (55% to 60% turn 3, WOW!), but I believe that this build is more consistent.
I do congrats DrJones on his well written primer. It should be stickied! Its amazing enough that there isn't a berserk stickied. They do appear in legacy here and there.
I´m testing now a new version of the deck that is GORGEOUS. There is only one problem that is the oppoenent removal. Are there anything overthere (green or red if it´s possible) that save our critters from burn?? The only thing I can think now on are xantid swarms (but not sure at all about them).
THis is because I´ve found a red-green version that kills consistently on second turn or third as much if our critters are not removed, but I would like to have something to save them form swords and burn spells. Any idea??
I´m already playing it. I was loking for something more ;).
Anyways, the deck is going more and more red. In fact I´m developing a monored deck that kills on second or third turn.
The problem of red is that you haven´t any enchantment removal, nor card advantage and so. Damn it, wizards doesn´t like red :(.
The new "swords" is worse than swords 1000000 times, but is better than condemn 10000 times ;).
Treefolk Harbinger is excellent at stabilizing manabase. Llanowar Augur is a Seal of Strength which also gives much needed trample. Rancor isn't as viable with Doran online.
Both serve as potential 3/3 beaters. Mother of Runes serves two rolls - a way to get past lingering defense and protection from spot removal.
UGW Hunting Grounds ||||||||||||||||||||||| URWBG Pauper Cube GB Death Cloud ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| R Peasant Kuldotha W Soul Sisters ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| U Pauper Faeninja UR Affinity |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| G Ezuri EDH B Pox |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| R Norin EDH
Oust works pretty well! Even if it is a sorcery, it messes up their draw and paves way for heavy hittings. Not a bad choice really. Currently playing two in sideboard.
What would Autumn's Veil stop in legacy? There is barely any black spot removal. Most of black's removal don't target creatures... Blue spells rarely target creatures... The counter evasion doesn't do anything to Chalice of the Void or Counterbalance. Daze, well...XD
Autumn's Veil seems like it will fit in Extended and Standard. Legacy just gets around it too easily. Thanks for your suggestion though.
About tutors I think they ahve no place here too. This deck tries to kill as fast as possible so wasting time on searching doesn´t sound good with the deck´s gameplan.
About the cards I´ve posted before, What do you think? Which one should you play?
@ Zabuza - Depending how the meta is like, I think Condemn could be your optimal card for the two slots. Six pieces of removal is very playable.
I agree with you on KotR cuz of the grunts. Troll should work fine in you deck. Having the one-sided should is extremely valuable.
I'm still testing out the Vines of Vastwood and I find its quite playable. I do like that suggestion. I did replace the ledgewalker when putting it in and quickly miss its shroud. Considering putting troll or ledgewalker back.
Oh wow!!! I just realized that a large chuck of the deck is immune to Pyroclasm!!! Thats extreme good news!!! Half the creatures in my older build got wiped rather easily with it. Sweet!
I´ll try the condemn to see how good they are here. THe deck seems very solid so I´m thinking it can do good things.
You need troll ascetic. I´ve tested all the contenders and troll won against all of them. If you cast it, it´s very dificcult to get rid of it and with its CC3 usually dodges CB.
I´ll try the deck and see.
More ideas or suggestions??
pd: vines are good. you only have to keep them and play it in response of opponent trying to remove your kavu or berserked guys giving them a nice bonus when needed. You must not play them as a regular pump spell, so be carefull whith them ;).
Aww... Boo-urns on the Firespout. And there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. At least the predator and grunt can take it.
I'm totally missing the legdewalker. But you make a very convincing point about troll dodge Counterbalance and Chalice of the Void. I thought he was alright before but I just wanted to make the deck as cheap yet powerful as possible. If I do add it in, I think I should add a forest in as well.
StP should probably be paths, and move the stp to the sideboard if you have room, a 12lifegain off of a dreadnaught is something i forsee you having problems with if you dont get the nut for creatures
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
against low creature decks, them gaining 12 life may not be quite a problem, but aggro v aggro, it could be the game breaker. I'be played quite a few games that was decided by less than 3 life. Againts most decks StP is the superior choice where their creatures don't break 5 power, but against thoes decks with alot of fat to them, Path is probably better
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
I played watchwolf lot of time ago and it was good but the problem is that the deck need turn1 creatures beside loam lion. Nacatl is the most 1 drop aggresive creature (paired with lynx but more stable). Because of that i´ve tested lot of replacements (hidden herd, elites, and so) but none convinced me more than nacatl. ANyways if you don´t like it you can cut it.
Condemn are not good. THe drawback of being an attacking creature sometimes is relevant so damn it, I need more removal.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=225819.
It appears to be much faster. Pridemage trades with Reverent Silence in terms of resilience. I think that a Doran-colored build would be best, with STP in MD, with Teeg, Pridemage, and other white goodies in SB.
Anywho... Thats kind of a differant deck. Its kinda aggro/combo, a completely differant direction. This deck is an early to mid-range aggro deck and doesn't rely on a couple cards to operate well. Every card in this deck is threatening in the aggro aspect and rarely runs shy of gas. It maybe not as explosive as the false cure build (55% to 60% turn 3, WOW!), but I believe that this build is more consistent.
I do congrats DrJones on his well written primer. It should be stickied! Its amazing enough that there isn't a berserk stickied. They do appear in legacy here and there.
THis is because I´ve found a red-green version that kills consistently on second turn or third as much if our critters are not removed, but I would like to have something to save them form swords and burn spells. Any idea??
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Anyways, the deck is going more and more red. In fact I´m developing a monored deck that kills on second or third turn.
The problem of red is that you haven´t any enchantment removal, nor card advantage and so. Damn it, wizards doesn´t like red :(.
The new "swords" is worse than swords 1000000 times, but is better than condemn 10000 times ;).
Any more ideas?
My list is strictly casual btw.
4x Kavu Predator
3x Jotun Grunt
3x Doran, the Siege Tower
3x Putrid Leech
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Mother of Runes
4x Llanowar Augur
4x Treefolk Harbinger
4x Invigorate
4x Might of Old Krosa
3x Vines of Vastwood
4x Double Cleave
Other - 10
4x Land Grant
3x Lotus Petal
3x Unearth
4x Murmuring Bosk
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Forest
Treefolk Harbinger is excellent at stabilizing manabase.
Llanowar Augur is a Seal of Strength which also gives much needed trample. Rancor isn't as viable with Doran online.
Both serve as potential 3/3 beaters.
Mother of Runes serves two rolls - a way to get past lingering defense and protection from spot removal.
I've been meaning to playtest Oust.
p.s. Berserk's price tag makes me cry.
GB Death Cloud ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| R Peasant Kuldotha
W Soul Sisters ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| U Pauper Faeninja
UR Affinity |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| G Ezuri EDH
B Pox |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| R Norin EDH
@an honest man : Doran and Unearth are so good! Looks fun for a casual legacy deck. I would run Tarmogoyf and Berserk over Double Cleave and Jotun Grunt.But yeah, its casual, looks solid!
Autumn's Veil seems like it will fit in Extended and Standard. Legacy just gets around it too easily. Thanks for your suggestion though.