i like the look of this deck alot and i like the fact that is has more than one thing so its hard to disrupt. it also looks like it may take some time to learn to play so its not an easy deck. good work looking forward to seeing how this thing handles
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As to whether a 3 CMC solution to a turn 1-2 play is viable, well, I guess that depends on how many Dazes/Spell Pierces you have to play through. I'd guess that it would be a pain in the ass from UW Tempo though.
I was just wondering because it says you search your library and graveyard and I thought it *might* make things different and as a Doomsday player, you might know.
Aven Mindcensor sucks, you don't have to worry about anybody piloting my decks running that crap. Except like two people, but I think they live in Russia.
"In America, you search library.
In Soviet Russia, library searches you!"
The matchup analysis was hilarious. The person doing the testing has absolutely no idea how to execute Doomsday and/or just made up the numbers.
Among other things, you have Force of Will, so you should be beating ANT, and certainly not getting 10/90'd from them. Probably with ideal play it's pretty favorable for Doomsday and even with bad play it's around splitsies.
Honestly you really shouldn't lose any of those matchups, and I really doubt 1) That Muodoka has any idea how to play this deck and 2) That he actually did enough testing to get remotely accurate numbers.
Even assuming that he just did the minimum 10 games per matchup preboard, he played a minimum of 110 games, and that's not even counting the matchups that change significantly postboard like when you get more copies of Show and Tell vs. Merfolk.
wow i love how every J-O who has a force in their deck assumes they will have it in every situation, if that was the case then why do decks the usually roll over to counter magic top 8 more then this random pile of cards?
hwo about you top8 with it with some proof and then talk.
i get sick an freakin tired of people praising force as som kinda of end all be all. hell goblins can have their nuts hand against you with plenty of REB and pyroblasts then your SOL. and its only a 12% chance you have force in your opening hand. so liek i stated before, show some damn numbers then talk.
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currently playing:
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
The fact that you'd equate a deck by Emidln with a random pile of cards shoots your credibility in the foot. His list is basically a modified DDFT list which you can find top8's for all over deck check. The playstyle of both decks is very similar but this list allows DD to answer CB in a much more effective way, unlike the old lists.
As for this FoW rant.. Nobody is claiming that Force is an answer for every situation because its unrealistic to always have it. However, anyone who has piloted storm knows that having Force in the mix is a powerful asset not to be overlooked. The mere fact that this deck can counter hate bears and permanent hate makes it worthy of your consideration. On top of that, the deck can protect its spells chains with FoW. Also, with as many cantrips, shuffle effects, and tutors in the deck, you can easily find FoW if you want it.
Besides, did you really expect to just pick up a deck with Doomsday and do well with it? Decks with DD are by a long shot the hardest decks to play because they have the largest decision trees. Don't get butt hurt just cause you suck with it.
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im not saying its easy to play, i played it and it seems like a less streamlined version of so many other decks, why not just paly to those other decks. they do better then a deck trying to do so many different things subpar. its foolish to say the least. and DD tendrils is just terrible compared to its brain child ANT
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currently playing:
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
Are a singleton Emrakul and three Lim-Dul's Vaults MD really enough to support Show and Tell? Postboard it looks a lot better but I'm skeptical about S&T's ability to perform in game 1.
I had that question too, and it turns out they are. If you happen to draw one of the pieces, it is easy to find the other, either with Mystical Tutor or Mystical Tutor for Lim-Dul's Vault. If not, you just kill them with Doomsday.
im not saying its easy to play, i played it and it seems like a less streamlined version of so many other decks, why not just paly to those other decks. they do better then a deck trying to do so many different things subpar. its foolish to say the least. and DD tendrils is just terrible compared to its brain child ANT
Sure. Its less streamlined. Belcher is way more streamlined than ANT is. Does that make it a better deck? Doomsday is an excellent resource that enables multiple lines of attack. If you actually know what you are doing, its arguably a much better play than Ad Nausuem. It requires more cards than Ad Nausuem to be effective, but redundant cantrips and rituals of the deck enable it. You are saying that it does too many subpar things? How so? Playing around hate you WILL run into makes the deck worse? Because thats what Rev614 (or NLS for that matter) is capable of in the hands of a good pilot. Having a Streamlined deck just means there is more room for error. If you just take your time and play storm combo like a half decent pilot, you don't need a streamlined deck and can increase your win percentages against the field by picking up a more versatile deck. Sayings that DDFT is terrible compared to ANT is a fatal mistake. Whose playing the deck? A noob? Or an experienced storm combo pilot? I'm not interested in this discussion if you are talking about a deck that is great for Avg Joe. I'm interested in playing a deck that reflects my ability as a storm pilot. Clearly, you are Avg Joe.
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Why are you posting in a thread to say that a deck is bad? There are a million bad decks all over the internet, and I personally don't post in them because I have better things to do. Saying that "deck A is worse than deck B, so don't bother playing deck B" isn't really useful conversation.
Now, your numbers and results with this deck... It's interesting that you came up with them and defended them. That you even came up with numbers about a deck that you don't think is good in theory means one of three things:
1.) You tested extensively a deck that you don't think is strong
2.) You test every deck that is posted
3.) You lied about the extent to which you tested the deck
I shave with Occam's Razor every morning, so I must say that #3 is the most likely. Now, we've all fudged numbers; I've done it, emidln's done it I'm sure, and nearly every developing deck has fudged matchup percentages somewhere in it. That's why I don't like numbers, preferring instead "positive, negative," and the like, but making up an entire set of numbers that would have required you to play easily over 100+ games solely to shoot down a deck is... goodness, I don't remember what to call this... Boxxy, help me out here!
Oh yeah! That's right! You're trolling this thread! Posting in a thread for the sole purpose of dragging the deck down while limiting positive discussion is a waste of everyone's time.
Now Muodoka, good sir or madam, I'm sure your time is valuable, so unless you have something constructive to add to the conversation instead of just trying to prove, for whatever reason, that Rev614 is a bad deck, please: go post somewhere else.
Hugs and kisses,
-Chris
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
I will throw this together online and test it.I know it's not as accurate as sleeving it up, but I really don't have the time :\
Plus I can platy many more games, although it will take some time to get used to using doomsday
i get sick an freakin tired of people praising force as som kinda of end all be all. hell goblins can have their nuts hand against you with plenty of REB and pyroblasts then your SOL. and its only a 12% chance you have force in your opening hand. so liek i stated before, show some damn numbers then talk.
There actually a 40% chance of a Force in your opening 7. The chance to see it is higher if you're mulling for it. hypgeomdist() is your friend.
wow i love how every J-O who has a force in their deck assumes they will have it in every situation, if that was the case then why do decks the usually roll over to counter magic top 8 more then this random pile of cards?
Because the deck is more than capable of finding it through tutors and/or cantrips. You would know this if you took a moment and looked at the list in the OP.
hwo about you top8 with it with some proof and then talk.
Maybe he will. Top 8's don't come out of nowhere. In the meantime, emidln decided to share the deck with us, and have an open conversation on how to play it/improve it.
i get sick an freakin tired of people praising force as som kinda of end all be all. hell goblins can have their nuts hand against you with plenty of REB and pyroblasts then your SOL. and its only a 12% chance you have force in your opening hand.
So your counter argument to against Rev always having a god hand with force in it is...to make the exact same god hand argument with another deck. Something is off about that. And yes, that's veiled sarcasm.
so liek i stated before, show some damn numbers then talk.
Numbers don't come out of nowhere, and with your posting history in this thread, I'm fairly certain that any irl numbers would be dismissed by you as inadequate. I'm also alot more apt to trust emidln than you, who came into the thread biased, picked up a difficult to play deck, then tossed up random MWS/whatnot numbers without telling us how your playing went(hint: games against MWS randoms/kitchen table friends/two window MWS don't count).
im not saying its easy to play, i played it and it seems like a less streamlined version of so many other decks, why not just paly to those other decks. they do better then a deck trying to do so many different things subpar. its foolish to say the least. and DD tendrils is just terrible compared to its brain child ANT
Seeing how emidln is one of the people who know Combo best in Legacy, I'm more likely to listen to him. Not only because of who he is, but because he puts forth what he has in an honest, non-confrontational manner. He also can back up his points in a coherent manner.
So we come to a fork in the road. You can either stop being belligerent, clean up your posting style a little bit, and contribute to development...OR...you can continue on your current path. I needn't elaborate on what Choice #2 would involve. Thanks.
who is being beligerent, not i good sir, im jsut saying this seems like a lesser version of other decks. thats all, i tested it against a few of my friends who play professionally and they didnt understand it.
im not just talking to hear myself talk at all, im trying to get a point across that maybe streamline the deck towards one or another type of deck. thats all im saying. jeez no need to jump at someone. but if you claim your deck is soo great against every deck in the meta then why hasnt this deck shown up on any radar? im just curious to that point.
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currently playing:
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
who is being beligerent, not i good sir, im jsut saying this seems like a lesser version of other decks. thats all, i tested it against a few of my friends who play professionally and they didnt understand it.
im not just talking to hear myself talk at all, im trying to get a point across that maybe streamline the deck towards one or another type of deck. thats all im saying. jeez no need to jump at someone. but if you claim your deck is soo great against every deck in the meta then why hasnt this deck shown up on any radar? im just curious to that point.
Because, like I said, it takes time and pilots and tournaments.
It also has to do with a major part of the new deck only being available for less than a month. But that seems like a minor small point doesn't it? I'm sure that I'll be subjected to testing against this for most of the summer.
I honestly anticipate it as well, because the deck looks to be quite versatile as far as approach goes which should allow it to win around a large number of obstacles that get thrown up in front of it. The versatility are what make it appealing compared to the "more streamlined" tendrils builds. This build is going to run into hate, but it should theoretically have something that allows it to play around hate and have one or two viable backup plans. I won't know until I test further with and against it, but to discount it because it hasn't shown up when there have really only been like one or two major tournaments since ROE was released its a bit ridiculous to be crying for results already
Reasons:
-LDV is essential to digging for missing combo pieces and works excellently with both 'Top and Counterbalance
-As you stated yourself, this deck can take excellent advantage of Counterbalance. In addition to the standard CB suite (CB, 'Top, Brainstorm, fetchlands), you also run the Vaults. CB is more reliable in this deck than almost any other, as you've several ways to manipulate the top card of your deck, and your curve is pretty decent, although a bit heavy on the 0 cc's. An additional benefit to note is that sideboarded Krosan Grips versus your CB & Tops do little to no detriment to your actual combo.
Your CMCs for CB (in parentheses = with the changes I suggest):
0: 24
1: 18 (16)
2: 3 (7)
3: 8 (6)
4: 2
5: 4
15: 1
As stated, an early Show and Tell is nothing but clutter til you've found Emrakul (or w/e sideboard target you choose).
The deck looks alot better then the last time I saw it Emidln. I like how you moved almost all of the eldrazis from the maindeck to the sideboard just to make your opening hands less clunky and more consistent.
I definitely think this deck has alot of potential to be a really good deck in Legacy.
How many games have you held a Show and Tell in hand all game and ended up winning with Doomsday instead?
The nice thing is that you have the choice! It's great to have your plan "A" against every style of deck available in multiples MB, and Show and Tell has been very good to me MB. Against tempo builds (and really anything blue) it's great to see S&T in your opener and be able to tutor for your big boy then only have to resolve one spell. Keeping a high bomb density is very important.
As for CB, yeah, it looks good, but that's not a game you really want to be playing with the soft lock. If I were to run more counters MB they would be in the form of spell pierces. CB is a great card, but for it to hit anything with any consistency you need top in play as well, and in a combo-control deck you don't really want the soft lock, preferring more duresses or spell pierces depending on what you expect to see.
I don't think I would cut ponder either. The more ways you have to draw into your doomsday pile, the better, and having the extra cantrip makes it so that you can use you cantrips pre-combo instead of hoarding them and hoping you draw into something relevant. I'd be tempted to add a third ponder before another copy of almost any other card.
I made a change to your SB, emidln. I really haven't had much of a use for misdirection so I swapped them for spell pierces, which is fairly nice in the heavier control matchups. What were they in there for in the first place? Diabolic edicts or just an extra weapon in counter wars?
Also, I added the 4th Underground Sea in place of the 8th Fetch. Against decks playing wasteland, I was constantly fetching seas hoping they'd shoot them so I could clear the way for shelldock. Most of me was screaming against this since the shuffle effects are pretty important and it's a strategy that relies on your opponent "misplaying" but it seemed like a good idea last night after quite a long sleep dep. period.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
I like having show and tell in hand; it is a wincon, and searching for emrakul is quite easy with this deck IMO with 3 LDV's and 4 tops to search it out as well as mystical tutors to search for LDV's to get emrakul in there although that is somewhat clunky, getting an emrakul out on turn 3 at the earliest save with an absolute godhand which I can't think of right now.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Just started testing this the other day. It's playing very solid for me, though I'm pretty inexperienced with Storm combo, so I've still been making mistakes. I think once I get more experience with it, I'll find it really good though.
Would splashing white for Orim's Chant be a good idea or not? Also, I think putting a few Counterbalance in the sideboard could work. I don't think I'd play them mainboard, but it could be useful to board in against decks like ANT and TES.
Misdirection is best against Merfolk as extra copies of FoW in mana-tight counterwars over Show and Tell. It's also good in the Counterbalance matchup (although probably equal to Spell Pierce here since mana isn't as much of an issue) for guaranteeing business + pitch counter by turn 2.
Chant is worse than Silence because we'll never have the ability and should rarely have the want to kick Chant. Silence not getting Misdirected has become a concern with some popular authors (Smmenen specifically) publishing aggro-control lists with Misdirection main.
That said, Silence is best vs tempo decks when going for a storm plan. The issue here is that we don't want to play as a storm deck vs tempo. LED absolutely requires Silence to work, and Silence alone isn't very impressive unless backed up by countermagic of our own. So to win, we'd need the mana to win via storm (6-7), the doomsday (which is dead without stifle as you don't want to Shelldock Isle vs a Stifle/Waste deck), the cantrip (not that hard as you can reuse SDT), the silence + W, Daze/Spell Pierce mana, and counters of your own. This is a lot harder than siding in a lot of permission, some dudes, and putting together Show and Tell + Dude + counters since Show and Tell is significantly cheaper. That the Show and Tell plan has fewer dead cards and more protection is particularly damning.
I'm having trouble playing against Pox. They have tons of ways to get rid of Emrakul (Pox, Smallpox, Innocent Blood, etc.), and their hand disruption can make it difficult to Storm off (Hymn to Tourach, Duress, Pox). What should my goal be in this match? Do I want to get Emrakul into play with counter-protection or do I try to Storm with IGG?
I'd shoot for a doomsday pile powered by SDT and LED, since they can't well get rid of those and it takes very few cards in hand. My favorite piles against pox are:
[sdt in play, 2U post DDay]
Meditate
LED
LED
Petal
TOA
Or...
[1U post DDay, SDT in play or brainstorm in hand, 2 random cards in hand]
SDT/Brainstorm (whichever is not in hand)
LED
LED
IGG
TOA
But yeah I'd stay away from Emrakul. Good luck!
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
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Aven Mindcensor sucks, you don't have to worry about anybody piloting my decks running that crap. Except like two people, but I think they live in Russia.
"In America, you search library.
In Soviet Russia, library searches you!"
The matchup analysis was hilarious. The person doing the testing has absolutely no idea how to execute Doomsday and/or just made up the numbers.
Among other things, you have Force of Will, so you should be beating ANT, and certainly not getting 10/90'd from them. Probably with ideal play it's pretty favorable for Doomsday and even with bad play it's around splitsies.
Honestly you really shouldn't lose any of those matchups, and I really doubt 1) That Muodoka has any idea how to play this deck and 2) That he actually did enough testing to get remotely accurate numbers.
Even assuming that he just did the minimum 10 games per matchup preboard, he played a minimum of 110 games, and that's not even counting the matchups that change significantly postboard like when you get more copies of Show and Tell vs. Merfolk.
hwo about you top8 with it with some proof and then talk.
i get sick an freakin tired of people praising force as som kinda of end all be all. hell goblins can have their nuts hand against you with plenty of REB and pyroblasts then your SOL. and its only a 12% chance you have force in your opening hand. so liek i stated before, show some damn numbers then talk.
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
As for this FoW rant.. Nobody is claiming that Force is an answer for every situation because its unrealistic to always have it. However, anyone who has piloted storm knows that having Force in the mix is a powerful asset not to be overlooked. The mere fact that this deck can counter hate bears and permanent hate makes it worthy of your consideration. On top of that, the deck can protect its spells chains with FoW. Also, with as many cantrips, shuffle effects, and tutors in the deck, you can easily find FoW if you want it.
Besides, did you really expect to just pick up a deck with Doomsday and do well with it? Decks with DD are by a long shot the hardest decks to play because they have the largest decision trees. Don't get butt hurt just cause you suck with it.
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Luck is a residue of design.
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legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
Sure. Its less streamlined. Belcher is way more streamlined than ANT is. Does that make it a better deck? Doomsday is an excellent resource that enables multiple lines of attack. If you actually know what you are doing, its arguably a much better play than Ad Nausuem. It requires more cards than Ad Nausuem to be effective, but redundant cantrips and rituals of the deck enable it. You are saying that it does too many subpar things? How so? Playing around hate you WILL run into makes the deck worse? Because thats what Rev614 (or NLS for that matter) is capable of in the hands of a good pilot. Having a Streamlined deck just means there is more room for error. If you just take your time and play storm combo like a half decent pilot, you don't need a streamlined deck and can increase your win percentages against the field by picking up a more versatile deck. Sayings that DDFT is terrible compared to ANT is a fatal mistake. Whose playing the deck? A noob? Or an experienced storm combo pilot? I'm not interested in this discussion if you are talking about a deck that is great for Avg Joe. I'm interested in playing a deck that reflects my ability as a storm pilot. Clearly, you are Avg Joe.
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Why are you posting in a thread to say that a deck is bad? There are a million bad decks all over the internet, and I personally don't post in them because I have better things to do. Saying that "deck A is worse than deck B, so don't bother playing deck B" isn't really useful conversation.
Now, your numbers and results with this deck... It's interesting that you came up with them and defended them. That you even came up with numbers about a deck that you don't think is good in theory means one of three things:
1.) You tested extensively a deck that you don't think is strong
2.) You test every deck that is posted
3.) You lied about the extent to which you tested the deck
I shave with Occam's Razor every morning, so I must say that #3 is the most likely. Now, we've all fudged numbers; I've done it, emidln's done it I'm sure, and nearly every developing deck has fudged matchup percentages somewhere in it. That's why I don't like numbers, preferring instead "positive, negative," and the like, but making up an entire set of numbers that would have required you to play easily over 100+ games solely to shoot down a deck is... goodness, I don't remember what to call this... Boxxy, help me out here!
Oh yeah! That's right! You're trolling this thread! Posting in a thread for the sole purpose of dragging the deck down while limiting positive discussion is a waste of everyone's time.
Now Muodoka, good sir or madam, I'm sure your time is valuable, so unless you have something constructive to add to the conversation instead of just trying to prove, for whatever reason, that Rev614 is a bad deck, please: go post somewhere else.
Hugs and kisses,
-Chris
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Plus I can platy many more games, although it will take some time to get used to using doomsday
My H/W list
There actually a 40% chance of a Force in your opening 7. The chance to see it is higher if you're mulling for it. hypgeomdist() is your friend.
Because the deck is more than capable of finding it through tutors and/or cantrips. You would know this if you took a moment and looked at the list in the OP.
Also, you're making a strawman argument.
Maybe he will. Top 8's don't come out of nowhere. In the meantime, emidln decided to share the deck with us, and have an open conversation on how to play it/improve it.
So your counter argument to against Rev always having a god hand with force in it is...to make the exact same god hand argument with another deck. Something is off about that. And yes, that's veiled sarcasm.
Numbers don't come out of nowhere, and with your posting history in this thread, I'm fairly certain that any irl numbers would be dismissed by you as inadequate. I'm also alot more apt to trust emidln than you, who came into the thread biased, picked up a difficult to play deck, then tossed up random MWS/whatnot numbers without telling us how your playing went(hint: games against MWS randoms/kitchen table friends/two window MWS don't count).
Seeing how emidln is one of the people who know Combo best in Legacy, I'm more likely to listen to him. Not only because of who he is, but because he puts forth what he has in an honest, non-confrontational manner. He also can back up his points in a coherent manner.
So we come to a fork in the road. You can either stop being belligerent, clean up your posting style a little bit, and contribute to development...OR...you can continue on your current path. I needn't elaborate on what Choice #2 would involve. Thanks.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
im not just talking to hear myself talk at all, im trying to get a point across that maybe streamline the deck towards one or another type of deck. thats all im saying. jeez no need to jump at someone. but if you claim your deck is soo great against every deck in the meta then why hasnt this deck shown up on any radar? im just curious to that point.
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
Because, like I said, it takes time and pilots and tournaments.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
I honestly anticipate it as well, because the deck looks to be quite versatile as far as approach goes which should allow it to win around a large number of obstacles that get thrown up in front of it. The versatility are what make it appealing compared to the "more streamlined" tendrils builds. This build is going to run into hate, but it should theoretically have something that allows it to play around hate and have one or two viable backup plans. I won't know until I test further with and against it, but to discount it because it hasn't shown up when there have really only been like one or two major tournaments since ROE was released its a bit ridiculous to be crying for results already
-2 Ponder
-2 Show and Tell
+1 Lim-Dul's Vault
+3 Counterbalance
Reasons:
-LDV is essential to digging for missing combo pieces and works excellently with both 'Top and Counterbalance
-As you stated yourself, this deck can take excellent advantage of Counterbalance. In addition to the standard CB suite (CB, 'Top, Brainstorm, fetchlands), you also run the Vaults. CB is more reliable in this deck than almost any other, as you've several ways to manipulate the top card of your deck, and your curve is pretty decent, although a bit heavy on the 0 cc's. An additional benefit to note is that sideboarded Krosan Grips versus your CB & Tops do little to no detriment to your actual combo.
As stated, an early Show and Tell is nothing but clutter til you've found Emrakul (or w/e sideboard target you choose).
If you don't like the changes I suggest, I would still at least consider:
-1 Show and Tell
+1 Lim-Dul's Vault
How many games have you held a Show and Tell in hand all game and ended up winning with Doomsday instead?
I definitely think this deck has alot of potential to be a really good deck in Legacy.
The nice thing is that you have the choice! It's great to have your plan "A" against every style of deck available in multiples MB, and Show and Tell has been very good to me MB. Against tempo builds (and really anything blue) it's great to see S&T in your opener and be able to tutor for your big boy then only have to resolve one spell. Keeping a high bomb density is very important.
As for CB, yeah, it looks good, but that's not a game you really want to be playing with the soft lock. If I were to run more counters MB they would be in the form of spell pierces. CB is a great card, but for it to hit anything with any consistency you need top in play as well, and in a combo-control deck you don't really want the soft lock, preferring more duresses or spell pierces depending on what you expect to see.
I don't think I would cut ponder either. The more ways you have to draw into your doomsday pile, the better, and having the extra cantrip makes it so that you can use you cantrips pre-combo instead of hoarding them and hoping you draw into something relevant. I'd be tempted to add a third ponder before another copy of almost any other card.
I made a change to your SB, emidln. I really haven't had much of a use for misdirection so I swapped them for spell pierces, which is fairly nice in the heavier control matchups. What were they in there for in the first place? Diabolic edicts or just an extra weapon in counter wars?
Also, I added the 4th Underground Sea in place of the 8th Fetch. Against decks playing wasteland, I was constantly fetching seas hoping they'd shoot them so I could clear the way for shelldock. Most of me was screaming against this since the shuffle effects are pretty important and it's a strategy that relies on your opponent "misplaying" but it seemed like a good idea last night after quite a long sleep dep. period.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Currently Playing:
Retired
Would splashing white for Orim's Chant be a good idea or not? Also, I think putting a few Counterbalance in the sideboard could work. I don't think I'd play them mainboard, but it could be useful to board in against decks like ANT and TES.
[180 classic cube]
Chant is worse than Silence because we'll never have the ability and should rarely have the want to kick Chant. Silence not getting Misdirected has become a concern with some popular authors (Smmenen specifically) publishing aggro-control lists with Misdirection main.
That said, Silence is best vs tempo decks when going for a storm plan. The issue here is that we don't want to play as a storm deck vs tempo. LED absolutely requires Silence to work, and Silence alone isn't very impressive unless backed up by countermagic of our own. So to win, we'd need the mana to win via storm (6-7), the doomsday (which is dead without stifle as you don't want to Shelldock Isle vs a Stifle/Waste deck), the cantrip (not that hard as you can reuse SDT), the silence + W, Daze/Spell Pierce mana, and counters of your own. This is a lot harder than siding in a lot of permission, some dudes, and putting together Show and Tell + Dude + counters since Show and Tell is significantly cheaper. That the Show and Tell plan has fewer dead cards and more protection is particularly damning.
[180 classic cube]
[sdt in play, 2U post DDay]
Meditate
LED
LED
Petal
TOA
Or...
[1U post DDay, SDT in play or brainstorm in hand, 2 random cards in hand]
SDT/Brainstorm (whichever is not in hand)
LED
LED
IGG
TOA
But yeah I'd stay away from Emrakul. Good luck!
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
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