deadguy and dragon stompy are some of your harder decks. You have to go the combo route against deadguy, as their main game plan against you will be to disrupt your hand. Dragon stompy you want to go show and tell -> emrakul. They have no way of dealing with it short of racing
I don't see Deadguy or any other Sui Black decks as hard. I mean, they were difficult when a storm deck needed a handful of cards to win but now with ANT and Doomsday coming into fruition, not so much. I mean, they can annihilate your hand but you only need one card in hand (or Top in play) and a Doomsday to win right there.
You are right about Dragon Stompy, but I wouldn't ever have my play set in stone with this deck since it can play three very different ways very well. You can easily win via storm with Doomsday as long as you can do it in one turn. It isn't wise to try and go DD go, though.
Just make sure you don't have a one track mind. This deck is not linear like ANT.
I'm speaking from a perspective of playing many of the decks against rev for playtesting purposes. I usually get to man the proverbial gauntlet for rsaunder and I think that dragon stompy wouldn't be fun for either of us but that deadguy is far from an easy matchup. They run enough disruption to nail your lands in play, your cards you can pitch to brainstorm and spells that can mess up your storm math if for instance your top in play gets vindicated after going DD pass or some such thing. I'll probably be finding out tomorrow if its going to be as difficult a matchup as I'm currently thinking, then again - I would hardly anticipate seeing multiple dragon stompy players in the same tournament or deadguy players in the same tournament, let alone both
If you have a top in play and you go DD, pass. And then let them resolve the sorcery speed vindicate against a top which can *gasp* put itself on the top of your library for free. You're doing something terribly wrong.
Post Scriptum: If you're playing deadguy and you DD why not go for Show And Tell and Emrakul?
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Post Scriptum: If you're playing deadguy and you DD why not go for Show And Tell and Emrakul?
Smallpox, gatekeeper, other edict effects, and even oblivion ring leap to mind.
Against decks with answers like that and slow clocks, it's best to storm them out. I'd probably go for an igg stack, take advantage of them not having FOW's.
Dragon Stompy... I think gameplan A is show and tell => Emrakul.
EDIT: and them vindicating your top makes you 1 mana short the next turn. Could mess things up.
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Stupid card suggestion of the day, but sideboarding a single Fatigue against Deadguy means that you can activate Isle a turn sooner with protection. It's probably not relevant in enough matchups to take up a sideboard spot, but it means that an early Rit->DD is game over unless your opponent has the Wasteland.
Brainstorm
Isle
Force(or your protection card of choice)
Emrakul
Fatigue
Brainstorm into Isle, Force, put a blank and Emmy on top, Force their turn two play and win because Fatigue prevents you from decking yourself.
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sig by Anime FX:http://tinyurl.com/2u743o Team Blitzkrieg- When We Put Our Cards Down, You Pick Yours Up. Team Rehab- Wicked Defunct, But Still Better Than You.
Play:
-3 Show and Tell
+1 Deathmark
+2 Misdirection
Draw:
-4 Force of Will
-1 Shelldock Isle
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
-1 Island
+4 Duress
+1 Deathmark
+2 Emrakul
Can someone explain to me why you would want to go the Doomsday route (into Tendrils or a fatty) on the play with 6 FOW effects as protection, but take out the FOWs and the Shelldock Isle on the draw? How does going on the play or the draw affect which strategy you should lean towards against Zoo?
-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
-1 Tendrils of Agony
-1 Ill-Gotten Gains
-1 Meditate
-1 Mystical Tutor
-2 Ponder
+4 Duress
+3 Misdirection
+1 Show and Tell
+2 Emrakul
In some of the CounterThopter builds, you might run into permanents that need to be bounced: things like Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, or Meekstone. If you were to sideboard in a Wipe Away, what would you take out?
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Stupid card suggestion of the day, but sideboarding a single Fatigue against Deadguy means that you can activate Isle a turn sooner with protection. It's probably not relevant in enough matchups to take up a sideboard spot, but it means that an early Rit->DD is game over unless your opponent has the Wasteland.
Brainstorm
Isle
Force(or your protection card of choice)
Emrakul
Fatigue
Brainstorm into Isle, Force, put a blank and Emmy on top, Force their turn two play and win because Fatigue prevents you from decking yourself.
Is there any reason not to just run a doomsday in that slot? Toss, say, a needle in that stack and a doomsday in place of the fatigue. As long as you have the mana it's even better since you'll have 2+ cards in your graveyard.
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Is there any reason not to just run a doomsday in that slot? Toss, say, a needle in that stack and a doomsday in place of the fatigue. As long as you have the mana it's even better since you'll have 2+ cards in your graveyard.
Yes. I was talking about bringing in Fatigue in matchups where you want to DDay into Isle but don't feel comfortable leaving the Isle out unprotected or where you don't want to leave yourself at 5 for as long as you do. It essentially makes turn one Rit/DDay game over because of your ability to dial up Force/Isle up early, whereas stacking a Doomsday requires you to have another Ritual or BBB up already which is a lot harder. It's thoroughly situational so that was my question. Does that situation where you want to use a Brainstorm/Emmy stack early game come up frequently enough to run a card that enables that game plan?
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sig by Anime FX:http://tinyurl.com/2u743o Team Blitzkrieg- When We Put Our Cards Down, You Pick Yours Up. Team Rehab- Wicked Defunct, But Still Better Than You.
Split T4 in a local meta today. My one loss was a misplay to Bant survival by the guy who split the last Vestal event.
Round one I beat a dragon reanimator 2-0, swapping in the show and tell package game 2 which was probably not the best call. I should have boarded in pierces and my lone extirpate for the show and tells and called it a day.
Round two I beat r/b goblins 2-1. Game 1 I just combo'd off nice and fast, game 2 I built a pass the turn stack turn 1 which ate a thoughtseize. Don't pass the turn against black decks if you need your land or what's in your hand. Game 3 I combo'd off through an extirpate and mindbreak trap after forcing turn 1 lackey.
Round 3 I lost to Bant Survival. Game 1 I won with a shelldock stack, topping into the land on turn 3 to get emrakul on turn 4. Game 2 I had to mull to 4 and never really recovered. I managed to get a landbase but just couldnt finish the combo. Game 3 I punted with the wrong stack: He dropped a survival after I resolved a doomsday for shelldock pile (without the first turn shelldock drop), then tutored out a meddling mage naming Emrakul the next turn. I built:
Shelldock
Emrakul
Extirpate (for iona? i don't know what I was worried about. might have just thought I was going to win outright)
D. Rit
Doomsday
I should have built
Shelldock
Emrakul
DEATHMARK
D. Rit
Doomsday
He tapped out to drop the mage so I would have gotten it through his spell pierce and not had to wait the extra turn. Oh well, now I know better. Passing the turn with survival on the table is dangerous business. Great guy to play some magic with though and no one I'd rather lose to.
Round 4 I played burn. Combo'd off turn 3 with doomsday game 1. Drew nothing and died to lots of fire game 2. Game 3 I re-SB'd into Show and Tell.dec, hoping to vault into my iona and just stop everything dead. I ended up dropping a turn 2 emrakul, which finished it pretty nicely.
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Would putting Emrakul + Shelldock Isle and Show And Tell on SB and use the ANT build on MD, with Emrakul combo on SB as an "Plan B" be a good idea?
People have talked about it, as a way to fight CB with only 2 slots, but it's an entirely different deck.
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Of the cards you'd want to grab, Personal Tutor can grab Doomsday and Show and Tell.
However, you really need a way to get Lim-Duls Vault and Dark Rit, as well. Not being able to get Extirpate, Deathmark, and FoW is also bad.
imo, the deck may need a complete re-tooling rather than just finding 4 slots to replace Mystical Tutor with, because there really isn't a good replacement for Mystical Tutor. I don't think the deck's dead by any means, but without the 1cc all-purpose tutor, I think more than 4 slots are going to have to change to keep the deck going.
Given the banning of Mystical, this deck can easily adapt to 4 LDV in place of it. It affects certain matchups making them better or worse, and is generally more skill-intensive, but it's a legit choice even if Mystical wasn't banned.
Sad Sac won't be necessary at all anymore. Those slots can probably become an extra Infernal Tutor + Cabal Ritual, extra removal, or something else that becomes necessary.
With Grim Monlith unbanned, it might become worthwhile to investigate a white splash for Serenity again.
Given the banning of Mystical, this deck can easily adapt to 4 LDV in place of it. It affects certain matchups making them better or worse, and is generally more skill-intensive, but it's a legit choice even if Mystical wasn't banned.
Sad Sac won't be necessary at all anymore. Those slots can probably become an extra Infernal Tutor + Cabal Ritual, extra removal, or something else that becomes necessary.
With Grim Monlith unbanned, it might become worthwhile to investigate a white splash for Serenity again.
I definitely need to give that deck for a spin. It looks very fun to play and I love it. Also, the sadistic sacrament tech seems pretty hot.
4 LDV
2 Personal tutor
4 Doomsday
3 Show and Tell
4 brainstorm
4 SDT
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 D. rit
4 LED
4 Petal
1 meditate
1 shelldock
1 emrakul
1 IGG
1 Tendrils
8 fetch
4 u. sea
2 island
1 swamp
It plays out very similarly to the Rev614 I loved so much. Not sure if it's strictly better than a burning wish build, it may not be, but it plays out just fine.
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Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Shelldock Island
3 Doomsday
3 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
No MT slows the deck down about 1 turn, so I added more disruption/protection to the maindeck so I could not lose during that one turn. Also, the Show and Tell/Emrakul strategy is more central to this build. So far it has tested well.
Not only that, but the random 1 ponder and only 2 LDVs, 1 Meditate, 1 S&T? I'm really confused by the decklist altogether. That's the weirdest hodgepog of ☺☺☺☺ ever.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
The blue cards that are there are fine, but the bigger concern (the one emidln was trying to make) is that FOW doesn't work without other blue cards. People generally put the minimum at 14-16 blue cards NOT counting FOW. My list is actually a little low too. I might try -1 Thoughtseize, +1 Ponder/LDV.
Hence the phrase "not only that". The meditate is justified, I get that. Why the singleton ponder over a third LDV? We established SDT > Ponder for DD piles and LDV > Ponder in terms of... the deck.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Given the banning of Mystical, this deck can easily adapt to 4 LDV in place of it. It affects certain matchups making them better or worse, and is generally more skill-intensive, but it's a legit choice even if Mystical wasn't banned.
Sad Sac won't be necessary at all anymore. Those slots can probably become an extra Infernal Tutor + Cabal Ritual, extra removal, or something else that becomes necessary.
With Grim Monlith unbanned, it might become worthwhile to investigate a white splash for Serenity again.
I'm not quite sure I understand how Emrakul fits in this list. Could someone explain it to me?
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I don't see Deadguy or any other Sui Black decks as hard. I mean, they were difficult when a storm deck needed a handful of cards to win but now with ANT and Doomsday coming into fruition, not so much. I mean, they can annihilate your hand but you only need one card in hand (or Top in play) and a Doomsday to win right there.
You are right about Dragon Stompy, but I wouldn't ever have my play set in stone with this deck since it can play three very different ways very well. You can easily win via storm with Doomsday as long as you can do it in one turn. It isn't wise to try and go DD go, though.
Just make sure you don't have a one track mind. This deck is not linear like ANT.
Post Scriptum: If you're playing deadguy and you DD why not go for Show And Tell and Emrakul?
Smallpox, gatekeeper, other edict effects, and even oblivion ring leap to mind.
Against decks with answers like that and slow clocks, it's best to storm them out. I'd probably go for an igg stack, take advantage of them not having FOW's.
Dragon Stompy... I think gameplan A is show and tell => Emrakul.
EDIT: and them vindicating your top makes you 1 mana short the next turn. Could mess things up.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
and thank you for getting what I was saying with the vindicate possibly messsing things up if you were tight on mana
Krosan Grip, now, could be an issue.
Brainstorm
Isle
Force(or your protection card of choice)
Emrakul
Fatigue
Brainstorm into Isle, Force, put a blank and Emmy on top, Force their turn two play and win because Fatigue prevents you from decking yourself.
sig by Anime FX:http://tinyurl.com/2u743o
Team Blitzkrieg- When We Put Our Cards Down, You Pick Yours Up.
Team Rehab- Wicked Defunct, But Still Better Than You.
Can someone explain to me why you would want to go the Doomsday route (into Tendrils or a fatty) on the play with 6 FOW effects as protection, but take out the FOWs and the Shelldock Isle on the draw? How does going on the play or the draw affect which strategy you should lean towards against Zoo?
In some of the CounterThopter builds, you might run into permanents that need to be bounced: things like Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, or Meekstone. If you were to sideboard in a Wipe Away, what would you take out?
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Yes. I was talking about bringing in Fatigue in matchups where you want to DDay into Isle but don't feel comfortable leaving the Isle out unprotected or where you don't want to leave yourself at 5 for as long as you do. It essentially makes turn one Rit/DDay game over because of your ability to dial up Force/Isle up early, whereas stacking a Doomsday requires you to have another Ritual or BBB up already which is a lot harder. It's thoroughly situational so that was my question. Does that situation where you want to use a Brainstorm/Emmy stack early game come up frequently enough to run a card that enables that game plan?
sig by Anime FX:http://tinyurl.com/2u743o
Team Blitzkrieg- When We Put Our Cards Down, You Pick Yours Up.
Team Rehab- Wicked Defunct, But Still Better Than You.
Round one I beat a dragon reanimator 2-0, swapping in the show and tell package game 2 which was probably not the best call. I should have boarded in pierces and my lone extirpate for the show and tells and called it a day.
Round two I beat r/b goblins 2-1. Game 1 I just combo'd off nice and fast, game 2 I built a pass the turn stack turn 1 which ate a thoughtseize. Don't pass the turn against black decks if you need your land or what's in your hand. Game 3 I combo'd off through an extirpate and mindbreak trap after forcing turn 1 lackey.
Round 3 I lost to Bant Survival. Game 1 I won with a shelldock stack, topping into the land on turn 3 to get emrakul on turn 4. Game 2 I had to mull to 4 and never really recovered. I managed to get a landbase but just couldnt finish the combo. Game 3 I punted with the wrong stack: He dropped a survival after I resolved a doomsday for shelldock pile (without the first turn shelldock drop), then tutored out a meddling mage naming Emrakul the next turn. I built:
Shelldock
Emrakul
Extirpate (for iona? i don't know what I was worried about. might have just thought I was going to win outright)
D. Rit
Doomsday
I should have built
Shelldock
Emrakul
DEATHMARK
D. Rit
Doomsday
He tapped out to drop the mage so I would have gotten it through his spell pierce and not had to wait the extra turn. Oh well, now I know better. Passing the turn with survival on the table is dangerous business. Great guy to play some magic with though and no one I'd rather lose to.
Round 4 I played burn. Combo'd off turn 3 with doomsday game 1. Drew nothing and died to lots of fire game 2. Game 3 I re-SB'd into Show and Tell.dec, hoping to vault into my iona and just stop everything dead. I ended up dropping a turn 2 emrakul, which finished it pretty nicely.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Would putting Emrakul + Shelldock Isle and Show And Tell on SB and use the ANT build on MD, with Emrakul combo on SB as an "Plan B" be a good idea?
On DeTora's extra land drop on PT:GTC
People have talked about it, as a way to fight CB with only 2 slots, but it's an entirely different deck.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
However, you really need a way to get Lim-Duls Vault and Dark Rit, as well. Not being able to get Extirpate, Deathmark, and FoW is also bad.
imo, the deck may need a complete re-tooling rather than just finding 4 slots to replace Mystical Tutor with, because there really isn't a good replacement for Mystical Tutor. I don't think the deck's dead by any means, but without the 1cc all-purpose tutor, I think more than 4 slots are going to have to change to keep the deck going.
[180 classic cube]
4 Burning Wish
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Doomsday
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
1 Wipe Away
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 2 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Pyroblast
Given the banning of Mystical, this deck can easily adapt to 4 LDV in place of it. It affects certain matchups making them better or worse, and is generally more skill-intensive, but it's a legit choice even if Mystical wasn't banned.
Sad Sac won't be necessary at all anymore. Those slots can probably become an extra Infernal Tutor + Cabal Ritual, extra removal, or something else that becomes necessary.
With Grim Monlith unbanned, it might become worthwhile to investigate a white splash for Serenity again.
I definitely need to give that deck for a spin. It looks very fun to play and I love it. Also, the sadistic sacrament tech seems pretty hot.
2 Personal tutor
4 Doomsday
3 Show and Tell
4 brainstorm
4 SDT
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 D. rit
4 LED
4 Petal
1 meditate
1 shelldock
1 emrakul
1 IGG
1 Tendrils
8 fetch
4 u. sea
2 island
1 swamp
It plays out very similarly to the Rev614 I loved so much. Not sure if it's strictly better than a burning wish build, it may not be, but it plays out just fine.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Shelldock Island
3 Doomsday
3 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 2 Slaughter Pact
SB: 2 Blazing Archon
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
No MT slows the deck down about 1 turn, so I added more disruption/protection to the maindeck so I could not lose during that one turn. Also, the Show and Tell/Emrakul strategy is more central to this build. So far it has tested well.
I'm not quite sure I understand how Emrakul fits in this list. Could someone explain it to me?