After some research, I've found Training Grounds to be most effectively paired with Izzet Guildmage. This turns Manamorphose into a win condition. Training Grounds also works exceptionally well with Azorius Guildmage. All cards sans Manamorphose are pitchable to Force of Will. Those with a higher budget can also utilize Reset for infinite mana on an opponent's turn.
While maintaining a low mana curve, Laquatus and the guildmages can be spammed mid to late game (if infinite combo isn't achieved) to put all extra mana to 100% use.
-Azorius Guildmage can be Vialed in for instant response to enemy Wastelands, Sensei's Divining Tops, AEther Vials, and various other strategies. Also for stalling.
@Cabal_chan:
Yes, it requires :1mana::symr::symu: to initiate. For example:
Turn 1: Cast Training Grounds.
Turn 2: Cast Izzet Guildmage.
Turn 3: Cast Manamorphose, with it on the stack, pay to copy it. Let the copy resolve, getting :symu::symu: and drawing a card. Rinse & repeat, net gain of one mana and one card per iteration. Maximum mana you can generate is equivalent to the number of cards remaining in your deck. Draw entire deck, throw down a Brain Freeze (and copy it several times) & Stroke of Genius targeting your opponent for 1, with fully-loaded counterspell backup.
It is not something we can throw down at instant speed. For best results the deck should be able to win EOT or in response. To do so, all you would need out are a Training Grounds, an AEther Vial @ 2, and 3 untapped mana.
You need an alternate win condition. At the moment you have four relevant cards in your deck, which happen to be creatures - the easiest thing to remove. If you can't stick an Izzet Guildmage, the only other option you have currently is Azorius Guildmage beats.
I would also run a singleton Stifle in the board, in case you see Blessing or an Eldrazi game two.
Be careful there with Brainfreeze. Copys of spells aren't cast, they are just put onto the stack. They don't add to your storm count.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He fights you not because you've wronged him, but because you're there.
<+RicoSuave> andy doesn't like grass on his playing field
<+RicoSuave> the easiest answer is to flip em over and play in the mud
<BrassMan> OBV
<BrassMan> WAIT WHAT?
I don't think that 6 creatures justifies running 4 Vials. I would just change those Vials out for something else, not add more creatures, because the other creatures are not really impressive.
The Vials are very justifiable. They allow for an instant speed victory that is very difficult for your opponent to deal with, and the only precursor required are two one mana spells- Training Grounds and Vial. In many cases, Vial can eat a counter for you as well which is always nice. Also, flashing an Azorious Guildmage into play to stop their Wasteland, 'Top, or their own Vial is rather nice.
That being said, it may behoove the list to add some more efficient or utility creatures, but none appear worth it at the moment.
Why not just use a single ghitu fire for win condition. It's instant speed and doesn't die to a Gaea's Blessing like your current combo. Plus frees up one spot. I think there's another instant x spell that's just RRx that might be better. I dig the deck tho, vial is good for sure.
Edit: I guess you can just copy more brain freeze on top of gaea trigger to kill anyways right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I get blown more than Nintendo games."
Thanks to Hero's of the Planes Studios for the Awesome Sig!!!
I would have to second the singleton Stifle. It would stop a blessing in its tracks. Though, how would this work with multiple blessings in an opposing deck?
less i'm reading your combo wrong it keeps the original copy of manamorphoses on the stack, while izzet makes his copies. that said you could just let the last copy resolve for 2 black instead to power a tendrils of agony.
just a random thought I was having.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
i would have to agree that words is alot better but the familar gives you mana so you can actually do things. instead of JUST trying to burn them out. i would say 2 words and 1 familar as an optional way out and maybe even as an alt lockdown
I think Muddle the Mixture might be cool to tutor your combo pieces (Guildmage, Manamorphose and maybe Ritual), in the place of some digger (Ponder/Serum Visions).
You dont need to run stifle for Gaea's Blessing or whatever... you have ridiculous amount of mana, in response to the trigger of Blessing you copy more brain freezes then stroke.
I think in order to be truly competitive though you need a more reliant way to find Manamorphose and Guildmage or have a solid alt win condition.
Its same colors as swans and I think you could pull a transformational SB... but probably not worth it.
You have a ton of protection, i'll have to play around with it and hopefully i can come up with some worthwhile advice.
After some research, I've found Training Grounds to be most effectively paired with Izzet Guildmage. This turns Manamorphose into a win condition. Training Grounds also works exceptionally well with Azorius Guildmage. All cards sans Manamorphose are pitchable to Force of Will. Those with a higher budget can also utilize Reset for infinite mana on an opponent's turn.
The decklist: Updated 4/27/10
4x Volcanic Island
4x Tundra
1x Steam Vents
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
1x Mountain
Creatures (6)
4x Izzet Guildmage
2x Azorius Guildmage
Other (36)
4x AEther Vial
4x Training Grounds
3x Manamorphose
1x Reset
4x Ponder
2x Impulse
4x Daze
2x Muddle the Mixture
4x Force of Will
4x Cunning Wish
1x Manamorphose
1x Brain Freeze
1x Oona's Grace
1x Pact of Negation
1x Comet Storm
4x Shattering Spree
2x Azorius Guildmage
2x Spell Pierce
Gorilla Shaman
Magus of the Candelabra
Magus of the Scroll
Rhys the Redeemed
Seedcradle Witch
Azorius Guildmage
Dimir Guildmage
Izzet Guildmage
Orzhov Guildmage
Plaguebearer
Soulbright Flamekin
Jushi Apprentice
Ambassador Laquatus
Scarecrone
Time Elemental
Rebels
-Ten cards to dig for the combo pieces (Brainstorm, Ponder, Serum Visions)
-Eleven counters (FoW, Daze, Spell Pierce)
-4 Vials
-35 blue cards for FoW pitches
-Excellent mana curve: -Azorius Guildmage can be Vialed in for instant response to enemy Wastelands, Sensei's Divining Tops, AEther Vials, and various other strategies. Also for stalling.
-Shattering Spree in SB versus Chalice of the Void (where as Gorilla Shaman gets stopped by CotV @1).
Thoughts, comments, critique? I see this as quite a potentially competitive list.
Thanks,
-Xanth
Training Grounds makes Izzet Guildmage's ability cost only :symu:. You use that to copy Manamorphose to draw a card and get 1 mana per cycle?
I'm a little confused how it works out 'stack wise'. So you have Grounds and Izzet in play. You cast Manamorphose...
Izzet copies it, original resolves. Draw a card + 2 floating.
Izzet copies the copy, copy #1 resolves. Draw a card + 3 floating
etc?
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
@Cabal_chan:
Yes, it requires :1mana::symr::symu: to initiate. For example:
Turn 1: Cast Training Grounds.
Turn 2: Cast Izzet Guildmage.
Turn 3: Cast Manamorphose, with it on the stack, pay to copy it. Let the copy resolve, getting :symu::symu: and drawing a card. Rinse & repeat, net gain of one mana and one card per iteration. Maximum mana you can generate is equivalent to the number of cards remaining in your deck. Draw entire deck, throw down a Brain Freeze (and copy it several times) & Stroke of Genius targeting your opponent for 1, with fully-loaded counterspell backup.
Edit: Alternate win condition kill thingy.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
I'm contemplating adding Chrome Mox. Thoughts?
Edit:
To again clarify, once you "go off", you draw your entire deck and gain mana equal to the number of cards you just drew.
I would also run a singleton Stifle in the board, in case you see Blessing or an Eldrazi game two.
They don't add to the storm count, but after you gain an assload of mana, you can still copy it repeatedly.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
That being said, it may behoove the list to add some more efficient or utility creatures, but none appear worth it at the moment.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
Edit: I guess you can just copy more brain freeze on top of gaea trigger to kill anyways right?
Thanks to Hero's of the Planes Studios for the Awesome Sig!!!
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
just a random thought I was having.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
except that card is worthless, does nothing and is easy to remove. Words of War is an infinitely better choice.
I think Muddle the Mixture might be cool to tutor your combo pieces (Guildmage, Manamorphose and maybe Ritual), in the place of some digger (Ponder/Serum Visions).
Mystical Tutor is also an option.
Banefire seems a perfect wincon here.
The ol' Desperate Ritual + Lava Spike trick might be useful here too as an alternate wincon.
Maybe something like this:
04 Scalding Tarn
04 Volcanic Island
04 Steam Vents
04 Island
01 Tundra
01 Mountain
04 Izzet Guildmage
01 Azorius Guildmage
// SUPPORT (37)
04 Brainstorm
04 Daze
04 Force of Will
04 Training Grounds
04 Muddle the Mixture
04 Manamorphose
04 Lava Spike
04 AEther Vial
03 Spell Pierce
01 Desperate Ritual
01 Banefire
Again, a very clever deck, this is something i really want to play with.
You are my hero.
Now, I'm not alone.
You dont need to run stifle for Gaea's Blessing or whatever... you have ridiculous amount of mana, in response to the trigger of Blessing you copy more brain freezes then stroke.
I think in order to be truly competitive though you need a more reliant way to find Manamorphose and Guildmage or have a solid alt win condition.
Its same colors as swans and I think you could pull a transformational SB... but probably not worth it.
You have a ton of protection, i'll have to play around with it and hopefully i can come up with some worthwhile advice.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains