yeah, thats how I play them as well, thats why the Sigiled Paladin is so sweet...
The reason I went with path over swords is because it really abuses white orchid, iv even had my friend not search for a land when I path'd him, because he was trying to keep me off of land.
no love for kinsbaile cavalier? as a silver bullet or even as a 2 of as a better helping win con. just vial in before damage. and... ta da all your buddies are hitting 2 times.
Looking at this, I think legendofzadeh has a crazy-good approach. I agree with the deck design but question some options. I am doing an arm-chair analysis rather than picking this apart and directly testing.
...The problem is knights just dont get big enough to be able to keep up mid to late game with only 1 lord. And they dont have the ability to swarm like gobs, soldiers, merfolk, and elves can....
By equiping every/any creature I drop with any equip I may have out its fairly easy to get opponents to use all of their removal real quick, and often prematurely (such as on a swinging jitte equiped stoneforge) This combined with the fact that almost every deck in the format trys to dump their hand ASAP (silly tempo decks) anyways, this creates the perfect environment to play a Wrath of God (and no, I have never done this with exemplar out... sigh, one day...). Chances are they are top decking, and hopefully I held a creature (if not likelihood is Ill draw one (and it doesn't even matter who)) Play said knight, equip, and begin the Beating!
Knights thrive in the top deck, between the white orchid, fetches, and 4 flagstones I thin my library of land real nicely. Stoneforge mystic as a tool box makes the knights super versatile, and thins out the equipments really well too (and she can be recycled with SoLS) I have won games top decking her after a wrath. Vial her in tutor, drop and equip the sword of vengeance swing 3, next turn equip everything else you have out already on her, namely the collar. With all this thinning normally my draw consists of first striking knights, or removal. It plays really smoothly.
Although I have had a rough time deciding a sideboard... I would really like to fit 2-3 more swords to plowshares in the side. And possibly a few Paladin En-Vec
The stoneforge approach is really interesting. This is probably the best route to go and I wholeheartedly agree that your lack of lords can be negated by stoneforge tutoring up a bomb to swing games.
Below is your list with comments. I don't use deck tags here because I'm commenting on choices and it's a mess with the formatting
Creature (26)
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier ---> I like him but I am not sure if making room for other cards is better. I'd drop it down to 1x
4x Knight Exemplar ---> quality
4x Knight of the White Orchid ---> quality
4x Sigiled Paladin ----> not a fan; I'd much prefer Knight of the Holy Nimbus who is already indestructible. Sure, he could temporarily lose this, but for tempo decks, mana is very limited. They're going to hit a speed bump with KOTHN. When on the offensive, putting a sword on Holy Numbus is such a win. He swings and doesn't give a crap if he dies because, again, the opponent will not want to keep mana open to divert his regeneration.
4x Skyhunter Skirmisher ----> not a fan. If you wanted to splash green (seriously splash), this is the Knight of the Reliquary spot. Right here she'd be a house. Keeping things mono-white, I would suggest this changing to a 4cc bomb like Wilt-Leaf Liege. I say this because Skyhunter is only a threat when it's equipped. Until then, it's a very overcosted flyer. Simple burn kills it and it doesn't aid the team. When you're grabbing equipment, this is probably the best card in the deck but until then, I think the cons outweigh the pro's. Wilt Leaf could be your lord #5,6,7,8 and boost the team. Plus it has the advantage to make your people bigger while being a 4/4 for 4.
4x Stoneforge Mystic -----> quality
4x Student of Warfare ----> quality
Sorcery (2)
2x Wrath of God ---> very interesting. With the extra slot gained, you could very well go 3x Wrath OR cut the Kinsbail entirely to run 2x Oblivion Ring maindeck in conjunction with ***
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
yeah, thats how I play them as well, thats why the Sigiled Paladin is so sweet...
The reason I went with path over swords is because it really abuses white orchid, iv even had my friend not search for a land when I path'd him, because he was trying to keep me off of land.
what do you think of the sideboard though?
@Sigiled Paladin
Sigiled paladin is actually quite sweet. That extra damage could matter in many situations. And I've play tested against the deck and they usually attack with a solitary creature in order to keep defense back. It ruins a good counter attack without an answer in hand to their blockers.
@Skyhunter Skirmisher
I've played against the deck with and without it. Without it the deck loses quite a bit more, because many decks with get some evasion in the air that you cannot block. Also it provides the deck some evasion to get through against decks with massive card advantage and creature generation (Thopter foundry, elves, dredge, etc).
@Mutavault
Not required. The deck is so white heavy that mutavault would just disrupt you instead of helping. The deck doesn't need more beaters (although the mutavault equiped after a wrath is quite a tech play I believe it may be too mana intensive). This deck thrives in top deck and I've lost to it many a time in the top deck (because every threat is pretty much the same with equipments on the board).
@StoP
Not necessary in the main. The deck needs threats to equip and diluting this for excess removal (which may go dead against combo decks, etc) is not required.
I like the idea of this deck a lot and I must say that Knight Exemplar is the most broken lord ever printed.
@Wrath
This actually works very well. The deck doesn't require overextending and some decks do. In those cases wrath of god is a very tech play.
@StoP
Not necessary in the main. The deck needs threats to equip and diluting this for excess removal (which may go dead against combo decks, etc) is not required.
You gotta be kidding. Whilst it's true that removal is a dead card in some pure control/combo matchups, how do you expect your puny party of patsies to answer a turn 1 (or turn 2) Frickin' Mothership of Hurtful Spanks, backed up by counter-magic that makes you want to gnaw your own ears off? There is a metric ton of decks that out-aggro you on terms of speed and beaters alone, and simply neglecting the best removal in the game - that's also dirt-cheap an on-colour, if I may add that - won't help you beat those lists.
Warden's quoted list is running way too much equipment for my taste.
You know what! I really like the idea of running silver knight with stillmoon cavalier, I never really put those 2 together as a team, but inherent protection from the 3 colors that are associated with removal is brilliance considering they each compliment one of the swords perfectly!
I think Ill switch the sigiled paladin and the skirmisher for playsets of silver and stillmoon...
And in regards to StoP in the main, I dont really have room for it, and can often do without it, but I would really love to run 3 in the sideboard, I can pull 1 scorn, but what else?
You gotta be kidding. Whilst it's true that removal is a dead card in some pure control/combo matchups, how do you expect your puny party of patsies to answer a turn 1 (or turn 2) Frickin' Mothership of Hurtful Spanks, backed up by counter-magic that makes you want to gnaw your own ears off? There is a metric ton of decks that out-aggro you on terms of speed and beaters alone, and simply neglecting the best removal in the game - that's also dirt-cheap an on-colour, if I may add that - won't help you beat those lists.
He is already main decking 4 paths and 2 ***s. 10 Removal is overkill in a deck with 6-8 equipments.
That pretty much made the Sword of Light and Shadow overkill so I decided that can go, and Kinsbaile Cavalier is awesome, but being my only 4 drop creature (and only 2 of) I never really Vial him in... and when I hard cast him often times he gets picked off before he makes a difference... So I decided he can go too. In the extra 3 slots I decided to put in a 3rd Wrath of Godand 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant since she is sweet with wrath, and can make tokens for me to equip if need be. I also squeezed in 2 Swords to Plowshares into the board!
why basilisk collar? It's sub optimal to just plain weak. There are better equipment you could play to that effect, though i believe the other 3 to be good enough. I'd sooner see the collars go and maybe one more jitte put in. that would free up two more slots in the maindeck for other potentially better things to run. Either a couple of more lands or maybe some chrome moxen or something. As it is, I don't think it would do well in a fully developed meta. Your sideboard is too weak. disenchant is obvious, though you could run creatures that do it. You have no real combo answer (ethersworn canonist, etc.)
why basilisk collar? It's sub optimal to just plain weak. There are better equipment you could play to that effect, though i believe the other 3 to be good enough. I'd sooner see the collars go and maybe one more jitte put in. that would free up two more slots in the maindeck for other potentially better things to run. Either a couple of more lands or maybe some chrome moxen or something. As it is, I don't think it would do well in a fully developed meta. Your sideboard is too weak. disenchant is obvious, though you could run creatures that do it. You have no real combo answer (ethersworn canonist, etc.)
really? I'm surprised that your questioning the collar, It is really the reason I started to run equipments in the first place...In most cases I would agree that it is subpar, but with the knights... each and every one of my knights has inherent First Strike, (even my lord) with the collar out it makes each of them, stand alone, a serious threat. A 2/2 first strike knight with a collar can kill a jitte equipped creature before it even deals damage. The reason I added the Sword of Vengeance was primarily beacuse of the new way deathtouch and trample work.
New M11 rules on Deathtouch + Trample: If an attacking creature with deathtouch and trample becomes blocked, the attacking creature first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. However, since the creature has deathtouch, assigning even 1 damage to a creature is considered to be lethal damage.
Example: Stoneforge Mystic is equipped with the Sword of Vengeance and a Basilisk Collar. It attacks a player and is blocked by Tombstalker. Stoneforge must assign at least 1 damage to Tombstalker. Its remaining damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Tombstalker and the defending player. Notably, the Stoneforge may assign 1 damage to the Tombstalker and 2 damage to the defending player. Stoneforge would survive (due to first strike) the Tombstalker would be destroyed, the player would take 2 damage, you would gain 3 life, not to mention stoneforge now has vigilance.
I agree with you on the sideboard though. What do you think would be the best option for the sideboard? perhaps an enlightened tutor package?
enlightened tutor package? you're not really running it maindeck, and so I can't see why you'd want to waste an entire board to it. I understand how deathtouch and trample work, but to have 2 equipment out to do it on one creature when any of the other is significant enough of a threat with just one? Yes, the collar is cool. However, it grants lifelink, which you don't really need, and deathtouch, but no power boost. It doesn't help you win faster and it anything dumb enough to try and block a big knight like that is probably going to be in a world of hurt anyways. There aren't too many creatures I know that can take down a 4 power first striker (any of your other equipment on them and they're knights that already have the first strike capability) with other good abilities besides. 4 power first strikers end the game in 5 turns anyways, at least by themselves. If you really want to run the collar, run it a big green trample deck and then put the collar on those guys. At that point, the power boost won't be as useful, but the other abilities will be. Either way, on to the sideboard.
What does your meta look like? If it's mostly aggro, which with the prime list up there I'm thinking that it is, are there any control? You should be well equipped to curb stomp aggro decks, at least main. If you want an entertaining thing to do, try day of judgement+knight of the holy nimbus.. Admittedly, I don't see any other better cards than what you are already packing.
enlightened tutor package? you're not really running it maindeck, and so I can't see why you'd want to waste an entire board to it. I understand how deathtouch and trample work, but to have 2 equipment out to do it on one creature when any of the other is significant enough of a threat with just one? Yes, the collar is cool. However, it grants lifelink, which you don't really need, and deathtouch, but no power boost. It doesn't help you win faster and it anything dumb enough to try and block a big knight like that is probably going to be in a world of hurt anyways. There aren't too many creatures I know that can take down a 4 power first striker (any of your other equipment on them and they're knights that already have the first strike capability) with other good abilities besides. 4 power first strikers end the game in 5 turns anyways, at least by themselves. If you really want to run the collar, run it a big green trample deck and then put the collar on those guys. At that point, the power boost won't be as useful, but the other abilities will be. Either way, on to the sideboard.
What does your meta look like? If it's mostly aggro, which with the prime list up there I'm thinking that it is, are there any control? You should be well equipped to curb stomp aggro decks, at least main. If you want an entertaining thing to do, try day of judgement+knight of the holy nimbus.. Admittedly, I don't see any other better cards than what you are already packing.
Well the real use of the collar is for defense, the lifelink can help, but it doesnt do much your right. But the deathtouch REALLY makes a difference, its not so much as the fact that it will help me swing through, as much as its a defensive move. To have the ability to stop traffic with only 1 knight untapped is a glorious thing, and can block 99.99% of creatures in the format, and not trade, thats a real big advantage. whats the point of swinging with a creature if there is a collar equiped knight standing guard. Knights dont get big (and 5/5's arent far fetched), plus they dont swarm... but 1 on 1, any knight with a collar will take out any creature and stay standing. The reason I run 3, is because Its not worth tutoring for, (my aggressive equipments are what I need to find) so I prefer to draw the collar, It really gives me a huge field advantage.
In regards to the sideboard and the meta... I personally dont have a lot of experience but my good friend who got me into playing competitively does, so personally I dont have much experience with sideboards. I really have no idea what to expect from the meta, I have heard separate rumors to expect a lot of zoo, Aggro (such as NO/elves, and even merfolk), Grave decks (such as dredge and reanimator), and that there may just be a ton of blue floating around. And really i wouldnt be surprised to see belcher or Burn there... So I might as well make my board to combat a balanced meta...
The reason I figured the tutor package, is that D&T uses it quite well, and I can always tutor for an equip if need be... (it lets me be versatile, but find my boarded answers fast.)
I rethought it, and came up with this. Id really like your take on it, I think it covers a lot of bases and can call some sort of answer for any matchup I may have.
well, then maybe use the standard death and taxes sideboard and see how it works for you. You're not nearly as tricksy as they are, though, so maybe it won't be as useful to you. That said, I'd recommend taking the top tier lists and playing like 10 games each with it, pre sideboard. Take notes, see where your weaknesses are. At the tend of those matches, then decide what is working and what is not and then you can evolve the deck or just go with the appropriate sideboard.
well, then maybe use the standard death and taxes sideboard and see how it works for you. You're not nearly as tricksy as they are, though, so maybe it won't be as useful to you. That said, I'd recommend taking the top tier lists and playing like 10 games each with it, pre sideboard. Take notes, see where your weaknesses are. At the tend of those matches, then decide what is working and what is not and then you can evolve the deck or just go with the appropriate sideboard.
your totally right. I guess this is as good of starting point as any. Ill def take your suggestion. Ill let you know know how it goes.
And seriously weltkrieg, thanks. It was good to hear some input.
Recommend a quietus spike over sword of vengeance. I also use a worldslayer instead of a wrath because it's so much easier to pull. I use both in my stoneforge knights build with Mother of runes and it's plain nasty.
Recommend a quietus spike over sword of vengeance. I also use a worldslayer instead of a wrath because it's so much easier to pull. I use both in my stoneforge knights build with Mother of runes and it's plain nasty.
I have to say I may have agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but after all of my play testing i have to totally disagree with you, sword of vengeance gives trample, vigilance and haste, a verrry big deal. also wrath is better in my opinion, its 4 to play, where as worldslayer is 5 to equip, and doesnt really offer much of a surprise... and it blows up all of your other equipments!
@weltkrieg- the deck frickken kicks butt! path to exile being abused by white orchid will have your opponents questioning if they should pull a land, knights dont swarm, but the Wrath of God more then makes up for this by punishing the hell out of any aggro decks are foolish enough to dump their hand.
Now the crown jewel of the deck, Knight Exemplar! Wow talk about the best vial creature ever, I usually keep her in hand and vial her in in response to a bolt/smother...ect... (i cant get over how broken she is!) Vial @ 3 (1 card in hand, being a land too) is enough to scare people out of using nonwhite removal, and is AWESOME to bluff with.
I took your opinion on stillmoon, and love him, but I dont know my feelings on silver knight tho... I think I may like sigiled paladin or holy nimbus more (shame nimbus doesn't have first strike...) more, but more play testing should resolve this.
Final Feelings, Knights kick butt. I would say I go AT LEAST 50/50 vs. merfolk, and NO/ELVES. Ill also finally have the chance to playtest vs zoo and gobs this weekend so ill let you know how that goes!
You should pretty well have merfolk for breakfast and elves can out speed you (or just drop a progenitus and make you sad). Zoo will be the real test and I'm not sure about goblins. If silver knight is maindeck still, it should almost be a bye.
I was looking at something like this for extended in bant... Rafiq is a knight too... KoTR, Rafiq, Wilt-Leaf, and Exemplar... Just play one Bomb after another
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IMHO this deck should be a GWB Rock Tribal Deck. A small yet powerful tribe backed by some amazing kill spells. The Black General and Kotr can not be passed as they are just so amazing.
I picked up 2 Sword of Vengeance because it looked interesting, how is it working out? Also, if you can get Karakas or have them, then put them in the deck. I know they're not the easiest card to get a hold of, but they are very important against Reanimator decks packing Iona. I'm also seeing a disturbing lack of Mother of Runes in some lists. I know she's not a knight, but she will protect your Knight Exemplar (which is actually the weakest link, because she doesn't make herself indestructible), and can make anything pretty much unblockable. And she's an early, infinite chump blocker against those big, pesky Tarmogoyfs, or KOTR, or pretty much anything that can be blocked. She's just all around awesome, just give her a try and you'll see what I mean. Honestly, she's probably at least a contender for white's best one-drop.
@PhosOx: I briefly considered Windbrisk Heights, but I really don't think it's such a great idea. It comes into play tapped, is vulnerable to Wasteland, which may not be a great argument against it since all nonbasics are, but it seems like too much of a win-more card. If you don't have three creatures attacking, it does nothing. If you are attacking with 3 creatures, I tend to think that in most cases you'd be winning in that scenario. Also, if you hide something important, like an Exemplar under the Heights, and the Heights does get destroyed, it's gone for good, and that's one less Exemplar for you to play.
@Crownclown: I agree, I posted a hypothetical GWB list toward the beginning of the thread. It would actually turn the deck a lot more controllish (my list had Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, etc), but it could work out really well. Unfortunately, many of the cards are out of my and many others' price range, thus making it a "hypothetical" list. Still, it could be developed and discussed further, if someone is able to put it together, or proxy it up and test it.
Actually, I run them not really for the thinning but for a trick I can do with KO2. I can sac the fetch and then vial in KO2 in response. The land hits the graveyard as soon as it is sacrificed (since it is part of the cost, not the effect), KO2's land searching effect will resolve before the fetchland and will usually net me a land due to the fact that I just sacrificed one of mine, and then the fetchland's effect will trigger. It's not a trick I rely on or anything, but I think it makes running fetches worthwhile for me, and the land thinning does help sometimes. And I already own them, so price isn't an issue with them. If they become inconvenient, however, then I may remove them from the deck.
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The reason I went with path over swords is because it really abuses white orchid, iv even had my friend not search for a land when I path'd him, because he was trying to keep me off of land.
what do you think of the sideboard though?
Sig and Avvy by Heroes of the Plane Studios
Ninjas
Fish
Dredge
EDH
Sharuum
The stoneforge approach is really interesting. This is probably the best route to go and I wholeheartedly agree that your lack of lords can be negated by stoneforge tutoring up a bomb to swing games.
Below is your list with comments. I don't use deck tags here because I'm commenting on choices and it's a mess with the formatting
Creature (26)
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier ---> I like him but I am not sure if making room for other cards is better. I'd drop it down to 1x
4x Knight Exemplar ---> quality
4x Knight of the White Orchid ---> quality
4x
Sigiled Paladin----> not a fan; I'd much prefer Knight of the Holy Nimbus who is already indestructible. Sure, he could temporarily lose this, but for tempo decks, mana is very limited. They're going to hit a speed bump with KOTHN. When on the offensive, putting a sword on Holy Numbus is such a win. He swings and doesn't give a crap if he dies because, again, the opponent will not want to keep mana open to divert his regeneration.4x
Skyhunter Skirmisher----> not a fan. If you wanted to splash green (seriously splash), this is the Knight of the Reliquary spot. Right here she'd be a house. Keeping things mono-white, I would suggest this changing to a 4cc bomb like Wilt-Leaf Liege. I say this because Skyhunter is only a threat when it's equipped. Until then, it's a very overcosted flyer. Simple burn kills it and it doesn't aid the team. When you're grabbing equipment, this is probably the best card in the deck but until then, I think the cons outweigh the pro's. Wilt Leaf could be your lord #5,6,7,8 and boost the team. Plus it has the advantage to make your people bigger while being a 4/4 for 4.4x Stoneforge Mystic -----> quality
4x Student of Warfare ----> quality
Sorcery (2)
2x Wrath of God ---> very interesting. With the extra slot gained, you could very well go 3x Wrath OR cut the Kinsbail entirely to run 2x Oblivion Ring maindeck in conjunction with ***
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Artifact (11)
4x AEther Vial
3x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Land (18)
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Karakas ----> Mutavault #1 and 2
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains ---> Plain #8
7x Plains
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I'd include Silver Knight mainboard to help fix that, and also ruin any Goblins-player's day.
Warden's quoted list is running way too much equipment for my taste.
@Sigiled Paladin
Sigiled paladin is actually quite sweet. That extra damage could matter in many situations. And I've play tested against the deck and they usually attack with a solitary creature in order to keep defense back. It ruins a good counter attack without an answer in hand to their blockers.
@Skyhunter Skirmisher
I've played against the deck with and without it. Without it the deck loses quite a bit more, because many decks with get some evasion in the air that you cannot block. Also it provides the deck some evasion to get through against decks with massive card advantage and creature generation (Thopter foundry, elves, dredge, etc).
@Mutavault
Not required. The deck is so white heavy that mutavault would just disrupt you instead of helping. The deck doesn't need more beaters (although the mutavault equiped after a wrath is quite a tech play I believe it may be too mana intensive). This deck thrives in top deck and I've lost to it many a time in the top deck (because every threat is pretty much the same with equipments on the board).
@StoP
Not necessary in the main. The deck needs threats to equip and diluting this for excess removal (which may go dead against combo decks, etc) is not required.
I like the idea of this deck a lot and I must say that Knight Exemplar is the most broken lord ever printed.
@Wrath
This actually works very well. The deck doesn't require overextending and some decks do. In those cases wrath of god is a very tech play.
You gotta be kidding. Whilst it's true that removal is a dead card in some pure control/combo matchups, how do you expect your puny party of patsies to answer a turn 1 (or turn 2) Frickin' Mothership of Hurtful Spanks, backed up by counter-magic that makes you want to gnaw your own ears off? There is a metric ton of decks that out-aggro you on terms of speed and beaters alone, and simply neglecting the best removal in the game - that's also dirt-cheap an on-colour, if I may add that - won't help you beat those lists.
You know what! I really like the idea of running silver knight with stillmoon cavalier, I never really put those 2 together as a team, but inherent protection from the 3 colors that are associated with removal is brilliance considering they each compliment one of the swords perfectly!
I think Ill switch the sigiled paladin and the skirmisher for playsets of silver and stillmoon...
And in regards to StoP in the main, I dont really have room for it, and can often do without it, but I would really love to run 3 in the sideboard, I can pull 1 scorn, but what else?
He is already main decking 4 paths and 2 ***s. 10 Removal is overkill in a deck with 6-8 equipments.
That pretty much made the Sword of Light and Shadow overkill so I decided that can go, and Kinsbaile Cavalier is awesome, but being my only 4 drop creature (and only 2 of) I never really Vial him in... and when I hard cast him often times he gets picked off before he makes a difference... So I decided he can go too. In the extra 3 slots I decided to put in a 3rd Wrath of Godand 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant since she is sweet with wrath, and can make tokens for me to equip if need be. I also squeezed in 2 Swords to Plowshares into the board!
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Silver Knight
4x Stillmoon Cavalier
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Student of Warfare
Sorcery (3)
3x Wrath of God
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Planeswalker (2)
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x AEther Vial
2x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Land (19)
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Karakas
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
8x Plains
4x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Aura of Silence
2x Runed Halo
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Warmth
2x Oblivion Ring
How do you guys think this deck would do in a 30-40 person sanctioned event?
Id really appreciate feedback on this! (Especially the sideboard)
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
really? I'm surprised that your questioning the collar, It is really the reason I started to run equipments in the first place...In most cases I would agree that it is subpar, but with the knights... each and every one of my knights has inherent First Strike, (even my lord) with the collar out it makes each of them, stand alone, a serious threat. A 2/2 first strike knight with a collar can kill a jitte equipped creature before it even deals damage. The reason I added the Sword of Vengeance was primarily beacuse of the new way deathtouch and trample work.
New M11 rules on Deathtouch + Trample: If an attacking creature with deathtouch and trample becomes blocked, the attacking creature first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. However, since the creature has deathtouch, assigning even 1 damage to a creature is considered to be lethal damage.
Example: Stoneforge Mystic is equipped with the Sword of Vengeance and a Basilisk Collar. It attacks a player and is blocked by Tombstalker. Stoneforge must assign at least 1 damage to Tombstalker. Its remaining damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Tombstalker and the defending player. Notably, the Stoneforge may assign 1 damage to the Tombstalker and 2 damage to the defending player. Stoneforge would survive (due to first strike) the Tombstalker would be destroyed, the player would take 2 damage, you would gain 3 life, not to mention stoneforge now has vigilance.
I agree with you on the sideboard though. What do you think would be the best option for the sideboard? perhaps an enlightened tutor package?
3x Disenchant
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Pithing Needle
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Runed Halo
4x Enlightened Tutor
What does your meta look like? If it's mostly aggro, which with the prime list up there I'm thinking that it is, are there any control? You should be well equipped to curb stomp aggro decks, at least main. If you want an entertaining thing to do, try day of judgement+knight of the holy nimbus.. Admittedly, I don't see any other better cards than what you are already packing.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Well the real use of the collar is for defense, the lifelink can help, but it doesnt do much your right. But the deathtouch REALLY makes a difference, its not so much as the fact that it will help me swing through, as much as its a defensive move. To have the ability to stop traffic with only 1 knight untapped is a glorious thing, and can block 99.99% of creatures in the format, and not trade, thats a real big advantage. whats the point of swinging with a creature if there is a collar equiped knight standing guard. Knights dont get big (and 5/5's arent far fetched), plus they dont swarm... but 1 on 1, any knight with a collar will take out any creature and stay standing. The reason I run 3, is because Its not worth tutoring for, (my aggressive equipments are what I need to find) so I prefer to draw the collar, It really gives me a huge field advantage.
In regards to the sideboard and the meta... I personally dont have a lot of experience but my good friend who got me into playing competitively does, so personally I dont have much experience with sideboards. I really have no idea what to expect from the meta, I have heard separate rumors to expect a lot of zoo, Aggro (such as NO/elves, and even merfolk), Grave decks (such as dredge and reanimator), and that there may just be a ton of blue floating around. And really i wouldnt be surprised to see belcher or Burn there... So I might as well make my board to combat a balanced meta...
The reason I figured the tutor package, is that D&T uses it quite well, and I can always tutor for an equip if need be... (it lets me be versatile, but find my boarded answers fast.)
I rethought it, and came up with this. Id really like your take on it, I think it covers a lot of bases and can call some sort of answer for any matchup I may have.
Current choices:
4x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Aura of Silence
2x Runed Halo
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Warmth
2x Oblivion Ring
Maybe's:
Chalice of the Void (Chalice @ 0)
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
your totally right. I guess this is as good of starting point as any. Ill def take your suggestion. Ill let you know know how it goes.
And seriously weltkrieg, thanks. It was good to hear some input.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Also recommend absolute law for sideboard
I have to say I may have agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but after all of my play testing i have to totally disagree with you, sword of vengeance gives trample, vigilance and haste, a verrry big deal. also wrath is better in my opinion, its 4 to play, where as worldslayer is 5 to equip, and doesnt really offer much of a surprise... and it blows up all of your other equipments!
@weltkrieg- the deck frickken kicks butt! path to exile being abused by white orchid will have your opponents questioning if they should pull a land, knights dont swarm, but the Wrath of God more then makes up for this by punishing the hell out of any aggro decks are foolish enough to dump their hand.
Now the crown jewel of the deck, Knight Exemplar! Wow talk about the best vial creature ever, I usually keep her in hand and vial her in in response to a bolt/smother...ect... (i cant get over how broken she is!) Vial @ 3 (1 card in hand, being a land too) is enough to scare people out of using nonwhite removal, and is AWESOME to bluff with.
I took your opinion on stillmoon, and love him, but I dont know my feelings on silver knight tho... I think I may like sigiled paladin or holy nimbus more (shame nimbus doesn't have first strike...) more, but more play testing should resolve this.
Final Feelings, Knights kick butt. I would say I go AT LEAST 50/50 vs. merfolk, and NO/ELVES. Ill also finally have the chance to playtest vs zoo and gobs this weekend so ill let you know how that goes!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Paladin en-Vec
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 AEther Vial
1 Coat of Arms
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Catastrophe
2 Path to Exile
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Mutavault
12 Plains
2 Windbrisk Heights
---
my sideboard is still under construction
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Runed Halo
2 Student of Warfare
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Worship
Thoughts?
Current Decks:
Type 2:
White Weenie
Type 1.5
Affinity
Deadguy Ale
NFS
Infect Stompy
Dragon Stompy
Building: T.E.S.
Daretti
Ezuri
Captain Sisay (In work)
12 Plains
3 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
2 Karakas
Creatures: 24
4 Student of Warfare
3 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Silver Knight
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight Exemplar
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Path to Exile
Artifacts: 9
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Basilisk Collar
Enchantments: 3
3 Oblivion Ring
@PhosOx: I briefly considered Windbrisk Heights, but I really don't think it's such a great idea. It comes into play tapped, is vulnerable to Wasteland, which may not be a great argument against it since all nonbasics are, but it seems like too much of a win-more card. If you don't have three creatures attacking, it does nothing. If you are attacking with 3 creatures, I tend to think that in most cases you'd be winning in that scenario. Also, if you hide something important, like an Exemplar under the Heights, and the Heights does get destroyed, it's gone for good, and that's one less Exemplar for you to play.
@Crownclown: I agree, I posted a hypothetical GWB list toward the beginning of the thread. It would actually turn the deck a lot more controllish (my list had Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, etc), but it could work out really well. Unfortunately, many of the cards are out of my and many others' price range, thus making it a "hypothetical" list. Still, it could be developed and discussed further, if someone is able to put it together, or proxy it up and test it.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.