The point of a lone wasteland is to drop mana denial as a strategy and still keep removal for annoying lands. I would still play no less than 4.
I like Sciros's idea of droping some card search (-2 ponder, 6 cantrips seems decent) for 2 copies of armageddon. I still think he's 100% off on PtE vs StP.
I like the inclusion of a singleton vendilion clique. Terravore is nice but with one on board if you fail to stifle a Relic of Progenitus, you also happen to fail at life. Vendilion clique is, as we all know, a great anti-hate card.
The steppe is good too. I like that. I think I'll try the deck. I don't like the Meddling mage though, so I'll tool out the sideboard an other way. Chants or silences maybe.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Hey everyone. I like this deck a lot, and I was thinking of an innovation. I know many people won't agree with the idea at all, but I'd appreciate help in figuring out how to get it to work.
Dark Confidant?
With fetches and duals, it's really easy to splash black for Bob. Nassif did it in his Counterbalance deck from a while ago.
No Terravore. I know, I know. He's awesome. My idea, though, was to make the deck slightly less reliant on lands in the 'yard. Goyf is fine because he's not just lands and your opponent's cards fuel him too and Knight self-enables, but Terravore is pretty conditional.
My idea was to replace him with Cliques for additional disruption and a nice 3 power beater, plus the annoying Clique-Karakas soft lock. With Bob online, having fewer large creature threats shouldn't matter. I know it's hard to keep Bob online, but if you can, you'll be drawing into your control and your threats so much that you can easily win with a Goyf-Knight party.
Only 19 blue cards. This is perhaps the largest issue I've had. I hate the 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder lists because it's just too much filtering/cantripping and a waste of mana, and so far replacing 4 Ponder with 4 Bob has been amazing, except for the fact that Bob can't feed Force of Will. I think the deck really wants 2 more non-Force blue cards. What do people think?
Other than the obvious advantage of drawing extra cards, Bob forces your opponents to waste their removal or get buried in your card advantage. So he really enables your big guys. Against bant-based decks that only run 4 STP for removal, this is killer.
You're missing the point of this deck, with BOB and clique, you're running 7 x/1 creatures. The whole point of this deck is that goyf is the smallest threat and with the insane amount of permission and removal, one or two resolved creatures is usually all it takes. Adding in these "cool controlish" creatures will severely decrease your aggro mu and doesn't really help combo (too slow) or control (still pretty easy to counter a well timed clique), and you're running fewer answers and hate for them.
Again on BOB, bad idea, 4 Knights, 4 FOW, 3 Cliques you're pretty much guaranteed to take 3+ damage even if he's only alive for a turn or two. And when he and more of your threats aren't all as big or bigger than what your opponent is playing, that's not cool.
Also, the 1 basic land is just screaming moon effects, also severely decreases your mu with Loam/lands/any one of numerous decks with a way to recur wasteland or lots of land destruction.
Just don't really see the point for the 4th color change.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Maverick -- Storm Click here for trade thread
Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Most new horizons players dont want to play steppe. They feel that the CIPT really kills the land. I like it because its a free counterspell that people are not thinking of. Once people figure it out and realize that you should only swords it after I tap it I will take them out.
It also makes for a pretty sweet unblockable 14/14 knight late game when you draw into it
the problem is when we get to untap with KoR in the early game we win 80% of time in matchups where ssteppe would be useful and I fetchup a wasteland most of the time during my phase anyay so it doesn't protect him from top decks either. a free Mana Vortex, backed up by wasteland and stifle gets there.
Late game groud stall vs goblins, sure its pretty sick, but thats a rare situation. And if you ever draw that card its a complete blank
Karakas works with clique to create a soft lock, also messes up Iona if you still run into reanimator and against DnT you can bounce their mangara to stop them from removing all your permanents one at a time. And it kills their karakas like *****ibee said. Its mainly a KotR target for some odd situations.
I don't like dark confidant in here. You will take lots of damage from him, he's terrible against zoo unless you hit lands or 0 cmc stuff every time, and he dies to so much in the format whereas the other creatures in this deck are huge and rarely die to lightning bolt, he simply dies to it and the other player moves on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
The Dark Confidant discussion should have died (but it never does, as people try to shoehorn that card into every deck) as soon as anyone took a look at this deck's mana base. It's easily the most fragile/janky in all of the current "top" decks in the format.
It's tuned and it works well (mainly because it plays enough land to always hit land drops), but adding in another color while keeping the existing land-in-graveyard synergies as strong would be extremely difficult.
Zoo is about even. The newer builds with Price of Progress and Fireblast are scarier for the deck, though if those stick around after the MT banning remains to be seen.
Goblins is somewhat unfavorable.
Merfolk is a bit rougher than Goblins.
You have great matchups against ANT and Reanimator.
Really?? I've found Merfolk to be one of the easiest matchups for this deck and Reanimator to be harder to deal with. I don't run Karakas though... and I'm strongly considering it.
Merfolk is just an auto-win for me. Counter + EE + removal + big beefy creatures? How do you lose to Merfolk? They make our anti-land package less useful, but wasteland still stops them from locking us out with Standstill/Mutavault combo... as for Islandwalk... they have a four-of that they can't tutor for that provides them with a way to swing at us... are you telling me that you're not using your Forces and Swords' on that? Merfolk is not a rough matchup ... New Horizons (IMHO) destroys Merfolk.
As for Goblins I have not playtested against, but I don't expect it to be TOO big of a problem, I'd expect it to be a coin-flip at the worst, maybe I'm wrong there though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Life is wonderful... but why??" Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
The problem playing against merfolk is annoying because they have just as strong a counterpackage as us and we MUST counter their vial otherwise we lose hardcore. LoA's islandwalking ability is a beating if we can't answer him we simply lose 99% of the time via merfolk beats. Wasteland is meh against them but their wasteland is insane against us and our fragile manabase where we try to support KotR, terravore, and sometimes clique all in one deck. Also I heard mutavault isn't the only good thing with standstill. Vial + standstill onboard is atrocious synergy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
The problem playing against merfolk is annoying because they have just as strong a counterpackage as us and we MUST counter their vial otherwise we lose hardcore. LoA's islandwalking ability is a beating if we can't answer him we simply lose 99% of the time via merfolk beats. Wasteland is meh against them but their wasteland is insane against us and our fragile manabase where we try to support KotR, terravore, and sometimes clique all in one deck. Also I heard mutavault isn't the only good thing with standstill. Vial + standstill onboard is atrocious synergy.
Vial can be stifled when you're swinging in with massive beaters... I don't know. Yeah Aether Vial is a huge threat, but we're talking about playing against a deck with zero removal options that target the battlefield, and we're rocking a deck that is throwing down turn two 3/4's and turn 3 6/6's ... you get one of those down and you're golden. They can't have amazing counter and a fast creature start and aether vial AND land to play it all... they have to be weak somewhere and if they are we should be good. Maybe I was just getting lucky in all the matches I've played against Merfolk, they never got Vial online I don't think, but I still think it's a good MU.
I'm curious to hear people's opinions about the God cat in this deck. I've played a lot of decks: started with burn, then :symw::symg::symr: enchantress, goblins, Naya zoo, domain zoo, and merfolk to a lesser extent, but my favorite deck to play has been zoo and I can't say more good things about Qasali Godcat, when I first started playing this deck I put him in as a 1-of MB because I just couldn't imagine playing a GW deck without him. He gives us game-one answers to cards that can wreck our plans (Aforementioned Aether Vial, etc.) and he is a beater if necessary... I don't think he's a 4-of, not even a 3-of, but 2 or 1 copies could go a long way...
If not pridemage then something else... MB Krosan Grip seems less than optimal since it's just a dead card if you don't find a valuable target. MB bounce could be good, Echoing Truth perhaps?? What does everyone think?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Life is wonderful... but why??" Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
Merfolk: A deck designed to prey on green/blue tarmogoyf decks.
New Horizons: A green/blue tarmogoyf deck designed to prey on land-light combo decks and three/four color aggro and/or aggro-control decks.
I'll leave the prey vs. predator identification as an exercise to the reader.
I'm not saying Merfolk is an "egad why bother" 25/75 matchup like, say, Merfolk vs. Zoo is. It's more of a 40/60 or 45/55 matchup where we can win but Merfolk should have the edge on New Horizons. T1 vial is savage unless we have some answer (counterspell or EE@1).
"Life is wonderful... but why??" Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
It's not a bad sideboard card in general, the only problem is that it has some serious non-synergy with Engineered Explosives, which we often want to blow w/ one sunburst. Actually, I frequently use Engineered Explosives to blow up opposing needles on Knight/Wasteland.
I think the best play against Merfolk (and what I have done, to some success) is to board in extra Path to Exiles, Rhox War Monks, and Engineered Explosives and play an attrition game as much as possible. I usually board out Forces and Stiles for them since the card pitch or trigger countering is just too painful in an attrition game and the added artifacts and boarded in cards wreck the blue count anyway.
Edit: One of the pro moves here is running out your threats and then turning into a GW deck with no islands out via Knight shenanigans while playing defensively. EE@2 set early on in the game is really annoying for the Merfolk player to deal with since it prevents them from dropping a standstill, Lord of Atlantis , leveled Coralhelm Commander or Jitte (you don't blow a EE for just an Adept unless it is 2-for-1).
This probably doesn't need to be said, but to anyone looking to build this deck, DO NOT run Savannah... I ran 2 Trops, 2 Tundras, and 2 Savannahs at first because I only owned 2 copies of Trop and Tundra, but make no mistake this will noticably hurt your manabase. Spend the extra money, this is Legacy. The Savannah substitution rears it's ugly head most noticably in the mirror, where a skilled New Horizons player will be able to keep you off blue with Wasteland cycling and stifling.
Just a heads up to any new players who may think that because it's on color it's a suitable substitute... it's not even close.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Life is wonderful... but why??" Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
Savannah, even as a singleton, compromises the mana base. The mana base is simply so tight as it is. Along with the fact that we already run 7 non blue producing lands as it is (4 wastelands along with 3 horizon canopies, maybe a singleton karakas as well so that brings it up to 8). You need to be able to hit blue for the following cards:
ponder, brainstorm, stifle, engineered explosives if you need to set it at 3, and out of the board is rhox war monk, a really good card I find in the new metagame where there is more aggro and he simply beats zoo to a pulp, often 2 for 1'ing them if they bolt him then block him or if they simply have to stall to find an answer for him you are winning.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
These are 76 cards, but I don't know the list 100% certain, can't look it up right now. ( might be wrong 1 card maindeck)
Maybe that's where your problem lays.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
ok so i am working on building New Horizons and no bant here is the list for New Horizons that i think is a good deck i want to put Noble Hierarch in my New Horizons deck because it wins goyf battles and adds mana for all the colors that New Horizons uses
4xKnight of the Reliquary
3xTerravore
3x Noble Hierarch
4xTarmogoyf
1xTrygon Predator
1x Vendilion Clique
4xbrainstrom
4xDaze
2xstifle
4xforce of will
4xpath to exile
3xponder
2xEngineered Explosives
4xtundra
4xtropical island
4xwasteland
3xHorizon Canopy
4xMisty Rainforest
2xWindswept Heath
so what dose eveyone think of this deck list for New Horizons
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
legacy
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
These are 76 cards, but I don't know the list 100% certain, can't look it up right now. ( might be wrong 1 card maindeck)
I won my matches against:
Round 1: Zoo ( domain) 2-1 (team won)
Round 2: Merfolk (high lord count, no bounce) 0-2 (team lost)
Round 3: Goblins 1-2 (team won)
Round 4: eureka/show and tell 2-0 (team won)
Round 5: B/g loam/discard control 2-0 (team won)
Round 6: I.D. we would be in the T4 due to resistance.
Semi-finals: Goblins 2-1 ( this was so exciting, but G3 I had an ridiculously strong hand, and it got better with every draw)
Spell pierce is really strong, not very usefull against aggro, which I had to battle a lot. I never, ever, even once wanted an engineered exposives.
I boarded spell pierce out on the play, and dazes out on the draw against aggro for RWM/jitte/pte.
I outraced a progenitus thanks to terravore, that things is gigantic and smashes the goblins forces. Also I thought about clique, but in hindsight, I'd rather have the terravore instead of the clique. I just have to make sure there won't be a moat in there.
The problem I have with EE in testing is that it's costing to much mana next to the intensitiy you try to achieve with disrupting your opponents game.
I'm not convinced.
That singleton savannah has been great, I continuesly missed being able to fetch for that single G/w and I won't even think about removing that one twice.
like your list plus his list, i did cut out 1x spell snare and 1x spell pierce and added 1x forest, 1x karakas. But still can't make up my mind on the sideboard
g1: i notice he had no land after he tried to ponder on turn 2 with 1 land in play. I daze. Turn 3 I FoW a brainstorm (not sure if that was worth wild). And win frrom there on opponent with 1 land.
board: I took out 4 ponders for 1 ee and 3 war monks. (Hence my question of what I should take out)
g2: I try to stifle a fetch land turn 3 and it gets countered by the random fairy countering thing (donno what it's called). He then plays standstill on top. i beak standstill later with a StP on the fairy with him on 7 cards he counters with another of those fairies and then another standstill.
g3: I keep a questionable hand of 1 x forest 2 x wastelands. kind of g1 in reverse.
match 2: thopter/meek
lose g1 and g2 in pretty much the same fashion. I side in grips and 1 ee for 4 goyfs. but just cant handle 6 StP/PtE. i also cant do much against a back to basics unless i can counter given the one basic land.
match 3: Zoo.
g1: lose to to a very good zoo hand. too much burn and aggro to handle.
sideboard: warmonk and ee for ponders
g2: i stifle 3 fetch lands in 3 turns and win with a warmonk, despite getting 2 price of progress at some point.
g3: much like game 1.
match 4: goblins
g1: his deck splashes black for that goblin that returns golbins from gy. i stifle a fetch and then daze a aether vial t1 and 2. prety much win from there with goyf
side in war monks, this time for KotR and not ponder.
g2: he has 3 vials and i cant stop them all. he drops his black goblin and uses it to combo with another random goblin that bounces a creature but has echo ie bounce let it die recast bounce etc. hold off a terravore in that manner and goyf cant attack due to getting piledriver retaled.
g3: i land an early goyf and terravore. i'm able to get terravore to 6/6 quite quickly and swing for the win whilst stifling his aether vial 2 times.
Match 5: fairy
another fairy.
g1: i win with 2 early stifles on fetch lands (though one was dazed and i had to daze the daze. and grab tempo and win from this point.
side in war monks and ee for KotR.
g2: i get terravor war monk and goyf extirpated 0.o he seemed to have sided out lots of aggro (as in all i saw was 2 1/1 counter fairies and basically lost to extirpates)
i decide if he went more control i would be a little more aggro. side in meddling mage and KotR for ponders.
g3: i stifle a land and get a goyf to beat. he has a bitterblossom to chump each turn. he gets down to 8 and extirpates a daze and spends the next 5 mins looking through my deck. 3 turns later his on 5 and extirpates some other random thing and spends 5 mins looking through my deck again 0.o by which time time is called whilst he was looking aso technically turn 0 on my turn (in end step). i proceed to top deck a terravore with 2 FoW in hand basically winning (so tempted to call a judge at that point).
So any comments on deck or play would be appreciated. In particular the SB and the SBing.
ok so i am thinking about building new horizons. and standstill is very big at my local tournament. there is about 6 players that play landstill. how is the match up against landstill? how well did new horizons do grand prix ohio? i now it did not top 8 but was there any new horizons that top 64. how do you get around graveyard hate? dose it kill this deck i know you counter stifle crypt. if a graveyard hate card resolves is that the end of the game for new horizons? i would like some input on all these question. it would be a really big help.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
legacy
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
if a graveyard hate card resolves is that the end of the game for new horizons? i would like some input on all these question. it would be a really big help.
I've found crypt to not be that big a deal. Rather relic is more painful. This is generally due to them having fetches in their own yard for terravore. though i often i'm starting to side out KoTR these days especially against aggro like zoo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I like Sciros's idea of droping some card search (-2 ponder, 6 cantrips seems decent) for 2 copies of armageddon. I still think he's 100% off on PtE vs StP.
I like the inclusion of a singleton vendilion clique. Terravore is nice but with one on board if you fail to stifle a Relic of Progenitus, you also happen to fail at life. Vendilion clique is, as we all know, a great anti-hate card.
The steppe is good too. I like that. I think I'll try the deck. I don't like the Meddling mage though, so I'll tool out the sideboard an other way. Chants or silences maybe.
Dark Confidant?
With fetches and duals, it's really easy to splash black for Bob. Nassif did it in his Counterbalance deck from a while ago.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Karakas
1 Island
3 Wasteland
Issues to discuss:
No Terravore. I know, I know. He's awesome. My idea, though, was to make the deck slightly less reliant on lands in the 'yard. Goyf is fine because he's not just lands and your opponent's cards fuel him too and Knight self-enables, but Terravore is pretty conditional.
My idea was to replace him with Cliques for additional disruption and a nice 3 power beater, plus the annoying Clique-Karakas soft lock. With Bob online, having fewer large creature threats shouldn't matter. I know it's hard to keep Bob online, but if you can, you'll be drawing into your control and your threats so much that you can easily win with a Goyf-Knight party.
Only 19 blue cards. This is perhaps the largest issue I've had. I hate the 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder lists because it's just too much filtering/cantripping and a waste of mana, and so far replacing 4 Ponder with 4 Bob has been amazing, except for the fact that Bob can't feed Force of Will. I think the deck really wants 2 more non-Force blue cards. What do people think?
Other than the obvious advantage of drawing extra cards, Bob forces your opponents to waste their removal or get buried in your card advantage. So he really enables your big guys. Against bant-based decks that only run 4 STP for removal, this is killer.
Let me know what you guys think!
Again on BOB, bad idea, 4 Knights, 4 FOW, 3 Cliques you're pretty much guaranteed to take 3+ damage even if he's only alive for a turn or two. And when he and more of your threats aren't all as big or bigger than what your opponent is playing, that's not cool.
Also, the 1 basic land is just screaming moon effects, also severely decreases your mu with Loam/lands/any one of numerous decks with a way to recur wasteland or lots of land destruction.
Just don't really see the point for the 4th color change.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
the problem is when we get to untap with KoR in the early game we win 80% of time in matchups where ssteppe would be useful and I fetchup a wasteland most of the time during my phase anyay so it doesn't protect him from top decks either. a free Mana Vortex, backed up by wasteland and stifle gets there.
Late game groud stall vs goblins, sure its pretty sick, but thats a rare situation. And if you ever draw that card its a complete blank
bounces teeg, emrakul and mangara (kills there karakas too) as well. I've been pretty happy with it.
I don't like dark confidant in here. You will take lots of damage from him, he's terrible against zoo unless you hit lands or 0 cmc stuff every time, and he dies to so much in the format whereas the other creatures in this deck are huge and rarely die to lightning bolt, he simply dies to it and the other player moves on.
Currently Playing:
Retired
It's tuned and it works well (mainly because it plays enough land to always hit land drops), but adding in another color while keeping the existing land-in-graveyard synergies as strong would be extremely difficult.
Really?? I've found Merfolk to be one of the easiest matchups for this deck and Reanimator to be harder to deal with. I don't run Karakas though... and I'm strongly considering it.
Merfolk is just an auto-win for me. Counter + EE + removal + big beefy creatures? How do you lose to Merfolk? They make our anti-land package less useful, but wasteland still stops them from locking us out with Standstill/Mutavault combo... as for Islandwalk... they have a four-of that they can't tutor for that provides them with a way to swing at us... are you telling me that you're not using your Forces and Swords' on that? Merfolk is not a rough matchup ... New Horizons (IMHO) destroys Merfolk.
As for Goblins I have not playtested against, but I don't expect it to be TOO big of a problem, I'd expect it to be a coin-flip at the worst, maybe I'm wrong there though.
Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
Currently Playing:
Retired
Vial can be stifled when you're swinging in with massive beaters... I don't know. Yeah Aether Vial is a huge threat, but we're talking about playing against a deck with zero removal options that target the battlefield, and we're rocking a deck that is throwing down turn two 3/4's and turn 3 6/6's ... you get one of those down and you're golden. They can't have amazing counter and a fast creature start and aether vial AND land to play it all... they have to be weak somewhere and if they are we should be good. Maybe I was just getting lucky in all the matches I've played against Merfolk, they never got Vial online I don't think, but I still think it's a good MU.
I'm curious to hear people's opinions about the God cat in this deck. I've played a lot of decks: started with burn, then :symw::symg::symr: enchantress, goblins, Naya zoo, domain zoo, and merfolk to a lesser extent, but my favorite deck to play has been zoo and I can't say more good things about Qasali Godcat, when I first started playing this deck I put him in as a 1-of MB because I just couldn't imagine playing a GW deck without him. He gives us game-one answers to cards that can wreck our plans (Aforementioned Aether Vial, etc.) and he is a beater if necessary... I don't think he's a 4-of, not even a 3-of, but 2 or 1 copies could go a long way...
If not pridemage then something else... MB Krosan Grip seems less than optimal since it's just a dead card if you don't find a valuable target. MB bounce could be good, Echoing Truth perhaps?? What does everyone think?
Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
New Horizons: A green/blue tarmogoyf deck designed to prey on land-light combo decks and three/four color aggro and/or aggro-control decks.
I'll leave the prey vs. predator identification as an exercise to the reader.
I'm not saying Merfolk is an "egad why bother" 25/75 matchup like, say, Merfolk vs. Zoo is. It's more of a 40/60 or 45/55 matchup where we can win but Merfolk should have the edge on New Horizons. T1 vial is savage unless we have some answer (counterspell or EE@1).
Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
I think the best play against Merfolk (and what I have done, to some success) is to board in extra Path to Exiles, Rhox War Monks, and Engineered Explosives and play an attrition game as much as possible. I usually board out Forces and Stiles for them since the card pitch or trigger countering is just too painful in an attrition game and the added artifacts and boarded in cards wreck the blue count anyway.
Edit: One of the pro moves here is running out your threats and then turning into a GW deck with no islands out via Knight shenanigans while playing defensively. EE@2 set early on in the game is really annoying for the Merfolk player to deal with since it prevents them from dropping a standstill, Lord of Atlantis , leveled Coralhelm Commander or Jitte (you don't blow a EE for just an Adept unless it is 2-for-1).
the key of merfolk is to play as mana EE as possible and to side in rhox war monk for lifelink
(its just sad that i put submerge back into my 'folk sideboard and my friend is going to borrow that deck so now i stand no chance)
Another option is to try as hard as you can to stay off of blue to avoid the islands or keep one out and fiddle around with daze
--me on the sig--
-- Trade Thread -- Buy List --
Just a heads up to any new players who may think that because it's on color it's a suitable substitute... it's not even close.
Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
ponder, brainstorm, stifle, engineered explosives if you need to set it at 3, and out of the board is rhox war monk, a really good card I find in the new metagame where there is more aggro and he simply beats zoo to a pulp, often 2 for 1'ing them if they bolt him then block him or if they simply have to stall to find an answer for him you are winning.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Maybe that's where your problem lays.
4xKnight of the Reliquary
3xTerravore
3x Noble Hierarch
4xTarmogoyf
1xTrygon Predator
1x Vendilion Clique
4xbrainstrom
4xDaze
2xstifle
4xforce of will
4xpath to exile
3xponder
2xEngineered Explosives
4xtundra
4xtropical island
4xwasteland
3xHorizon Canopy
4xMisty Rainforest
2xWindswept Heath
so what dose eveyone think of this deck list for New Horizons
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
like your list plus his list, i did cut out 1x spell snare and 1x spell pierce and added 1x forest, 1x karakas. But still can't make up my mind on the sideboard
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
I understand how the deck works a lot better know.
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
I didn't take notes but a few sbing situations came to mind.
Deck list:
4 knight of the reliquary
4 tarmogoyf
3 terravore
Spells
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stifle
4 force of will
4 daze
4 swords to plowshares
2 engineered explosives
Lands
1 Forest
4 Flooded strand
4 misty rainforest
3 tundra
4 tropical island
4 wasteland
3 horizon canopy
1 Engineered explosives
3 Fairy macabre
3 Rox war monk
3 krosan grips
2 Crucible of the worlds
2 Meddling mage
1 bojuka bog
1st match: against fairy still.
g1: i notice he had no land after he tried to ponder on turn 2 with 1 land in play. I daze. Turn 3 I FoW a brainstorm (not sure if that was worth wild). And win frrom there on opponent with 1 land.
board: I took out 4 ponders for 1 ee and 3 war monks. (Hence my question of what I should take out)
g2: I try to stifle a fetch land turn 3 and it gets countered by the random fairy countering thing (donno what it's called). He then plays standstill on top. i beak standstill later with a StP on the fairy with him on 7 cards he counters with another of those fairies and then another standstill.
g3: I keep a questionable hand of 1 x forest 2 x wastelands. kind of g1 in reverse.
match 2: thopter/meek
lose g1 and g2 in pretty much the same fashion. I side in grips and 1 ee for 4 goyfs. but just cant handle 6 StP/PtE. i also cant do much against a back to basics unless i can counter given the one basic land.
match 3: Zoo.
g1: lose to to a very good zoo hand. too much burn and aggro to handle.
sideboard: warmonk and ee for ponders
g2: i stifle 3 fetch lands in 3 turns and win with a warmonk, despite getting 2 price of progress at some point.
g3: much like game 1.
match 4: goblins
g1: his deck splashes black for that goblin that returns golbins from gy. i stifle a fetch and then daze a aether vial t1 and 2. prety much win from there with goyf
side in war monks, this time for KotR and not ponder.
g2: he has 3 vials and i cant stop them all. he drops his black goblin and uses it to combo with another random goblin that bounces a creature but has echo ie bounce let it die recast bounce etc. hold off a terravore in that manner and goyf cant attack due to getting piledriver retaled.
g3: i land an early goyf and terravore. i'm able to get terravore to 6/6 quite quickly and swing for the win whilst stifling his aether vial 2 times.
Match 5: fairy
another fairy.
g1: i win with 2 early stifles on fetch lands (though one was dazed and i had to daze the daze. and grab tempo and win from this point.
side in war monks and ee for KotR.
g2: i get terravor war monk and goyf extirpated 0.o he seemed to have sided out lots of aggro (as in all i saw was 2 1/1 counter fairies and basically lost to extirpates)
i decide if he went more control i would be a little more aggro. side in meddling mage and KotR for ponders.
g3: i stifle a land and get a goyf to beat. he has a bitterblossom to chump each turn. he gets down to 8 and extirpates a daze and spends the next 5 mins looking through my deck. 3 turns later his on 5 and extirpates some other random thing and spends 5 mins looking through my deck again 0.o by which time time is called whilst he was looking aso technically turn 0 on my turn (in end step). i proceed to top deck a terravore with 2 FoW in hand basically winning (so tempted to call a judge at that point).
So any comments on deck or play would be appreciated. In particular the SB and the SBing.
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
I've found crypt to not be that big a deal. Rather relic is more painful. This is generally due to them having fetches in their own yard for terravore. though i often i'm starting to side out KoTR these days especially against aggro like zoo.