I love this deck, took apart Bant survival, and was bummed out after MT banning that screwed ANTs consistency, quit for like a month, and now New Horizons put me back in love with Legacy!!
The point of new horizons is that you have that single beater against a standstill..
Now if you are talking about LANDstill, then it should be quite decent. EE is useless here and they should NEVER EVER GET TO 4 MANA, that's about the whole thing.
If they get 4 mana, you are in a tough spot. since a single resolved moat can kill you pre-board.
I usually board out terravores and keep the knight in, because they always have their use and for one, they CAN make your creature big.
RWM is great against aggro-matches, and so is an early jitte.
I don't play ee's, not mainboard and none sideboard, since they are quite mana heavy and you don't really need them = p
thanks i meant landstill. i was trying to decide between landstill and new horizons. but i actually bought a landstill deck today on ebay. if i would of known new horizons was a good macth up against landstill. i would of stick with that deck because it is more my metagame. landstill is very heavy at my game shop there is like 9 players who already play it oh well.
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legacy
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
Ratchet bomb looks like it may have a place in this build come next set. The deck has the backbone to be tier one, not sure why its sorta calmed down lately.
Ratchet bomb looks like it may have a place in this build come next set. The deck has the backbone to be tier one, not sure why its sorta calmed down lately.
Why play Ratchet bomb when you can set EE for 0-3? Bomb takes a few turns to get up.
Ratchet bomb looks like it may have a place in this build come next set. The deck has the backbone to be tier one, not sure why its sorta calmed down lately.
1.deck does really well
2.everyone plays deck, continues to do well
3.people start packing hate for deck
4.deck dies down
No one really ever packed specific hate for New Horizons, though.
Two of the deck's more iffy matchups, Merfolk and Goblins, either got cards that made their decks better ( Coralhelm Commander ) or became better positioned as a result of rising Merfolk popularity and waning combo options (Goblins).
The deck actually never had huge traction outside of a particular part of the US, so when the Vengevine Madness deck showed up and top 8'd the GP, it gave a lot of people an aggro deck to play that beat other aggro decks and yet wasn't completely helpless to losing to something awful like charbelcher.
The deck's best matchup was the pre-Mystical Tutor Reanimator decks, with positive matchup against Zoo or Ichorid, and a slightly better than even ANT matchup. With the realignment of the metagame after GP Columbus the deck just isn't in the strong place it was back in April-May of this year. In particular this deck always wants to have combo making up a large enough part of the metagame where people move away from Goblins and more towards Counterbalance.
The deck is honestly still a beast if you have a lot of some type of decks in your local metagame. It's still not a bad call at a 5K because Legacy is a format full of players who hate playing lands in their decks and stifle/waste sometimes just wins games on its own. It's still got enough good matchups where a prepared player can make their way to X-2 and be in the hunt at the end of seven or eight rounds with tight play and better than average pairing luck.
You just have to ask yourself if you couldn't get to X-2 with Vengevine Madness at its broken draws more easily, and right now the answer is probably not until people start to stuff their sideboards with Pithing Needles and Peacekeepers.
I think the reason why New Horizons hasn't been seen in a while is because only a few players were using it to begin with.
That being said, does New Horizons have any advantages over Survival Vengevine? I get the impression that New Horizons is a bit more reliable in the sense that it doesn't rely on much of a combo game plan, and isn't tripped up as badly against its creatures getting exiled, compared to someone exiling Vengevine (which is usually the largest creature and the main attacker in Survival Vengevine).
So not singling anyone out, but I just read this whole thread and instead of anyone actually answering the question, "why isn't this deck still being played?" people have been commenting on the fact that this deck has cards that hate on it? Like doesn't every deck? The lack of answers could mean that this deck is still viable, just people forgot about it because something else new and exciting happened....? I've been on the standard train for 2 years and I am ready to get off, it's tiring hunting cards that lose so much value. This deck is solid and looks like it's fun to play. Maybe I won't do many tournaments besides local, but this looks like a solid moldable build from what I have read.
I think the biggest problem with this deck as far as bringing hate for it goes, is its vulnerable in so many ways so, the hate isnt necessarily dedicated to this deck in particular.
ex:
Relic/Crypt, worthwhile in legacy no one likes losing to dredge, hurts thresh if you still see it useful against stax/pox decks as well, makes all of horizons creatures tiny....
Perish, everyone is packing perish... hits this deck hard, but good to have in for vengevival, elves, zoo, and most other goyf decks...
Point being, this isnt ever a deck that people have to go out of their way to board for and its likely they find their hate cards as there are so many that can be used.
Domantas: good point. I don't know myself. If it is getting "hated out" so easily.... It initially seems like a pretty bad collection of cards to spend time/money on for a tier one deck if it is so easily destroyed. Albeit it looks like pretty much a lot of fun to play.
Its still a very powerful deck w/ a good game plan can put on a quick clock. It has a lot of advantages.
But, likewise... it has flaws like every other deck... but, unlike some decks (like dredge) if you dont have specific hate for it, its bound to run over you, whereas you can manage to stumble into decent sb options to this deck and come into G2/G3 with a much better MU.
I dont think this deck needs to be hated on as it puts up good results, but i dont think has had the flare that decks like vengevival and reanimator or ANT get when they start taking tournaments like the flu.
Goblins is a tier 1 deck.... since forever it seems... and people always bring hate and it seems to continue to do well. Just because decks get hated on doesn't mean they don't perform well. I was addressing that i think some of the lack of popularity comes form this deck being able to be attacked by far more options than some of the other "tier 1" decks currently and to me that would drive away from its popularity not necessarily its potential as some of those forms of hate aren't game over, and FoW/Daze/Stifle/etc provide protection for the gameplan. But, i dont think any deck ever approaces NH g2 and is like hmm.... .i have nothing to help....and what they do have is usually a fairly heavy hit if it goes through. thinking perish/gy hate/moat/EE. (ok maybe moat is a stretch...)
I played against nearly that same deck at a tournament yesterday (it also ran two Jace, the Mind Sculptor. It lost to my Doran deck.
I suggest removing 4 Ponder or 4 Brainstorm or 2 of each or whatever. Those cards are overvalued by Legacy players if you ask me. 8 is seriously just too much. My opponent was playing those left and right, and I didn't care because they cost mana and that means I can outrun him by not blowing a mana per turn on trying to get a better draw. Not to mention that of those three cards you're looking at, one is probably going to be a Ponder or Brainstorm, whoopee as if you want to see that. So yeah definitely knock it down to 4.
Play 2 Armageddons. A well-timed one will mess your opponent up something fierce while you have a 8/8 trample Terravore or a 6/6 Knight out there. The Knight, because he gives you an extra mana per turn with his ability, can also help you regain board position quickly following an Armageddon.
I still don't understand what Stifle is meant to do in that deck except maybe mess up a fetchland. That's all I saw it doing at the tournament, and frankly that's just not that effective in a metagame where nobody needs more than a couple of lands to continue being a threat (you can thank Goyf and Entomb for that). Stifle also has poor synergy in that sense with Path to Exile, and you really ought to be playing that instead of Swords to Plowshares because you're not playing a lockdown deck -- your real win condition is out-aggroing your opponent, and you simply shouldn't give them 3-5 life when you take out a creature.
What to replace the Stifles with? Any number of things. I suggest something like reworking the sideboard to have more multicolor cards and playing Glittering Wish, or more utility creatures like Gaddock Teeg and Faerie Macabre and lands like Karakas and maindecking Living Wish. As it is, your first game will not go well if you go up against a good aggro player who anticipates counterspells by maindecking a couple of Vials or doing what I did and maindecking some Ensnaring Bridge. The second game might go better with the Krosan Grips but it's still a question of top-decking. And trust me, Brainstorm is like a hundred times worse than a Glittering Wish if you've got your SB set up to work with it in a GWU deck.
So that's my constructive criticism. Hope you consider some of it and see if it makes a difference. As it is I just see 12 cards (4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Stifle) that basically do diddly against an aggressive deck except serve as FoW fodder. And everyone's playing Goyfs these days, and sometimes even more annoying things like Nighthawks with Jittes, so you should consider just maindecking some more reliable control. Maybe 3 Engineered Explosives and some blue permanent-removal against those pesky Ionas that come in on turn 2 naming 'white' when you don't have a FoW or Daze handy.
So,
-4 Ponder, -4 Stifle
+2 Armageddon, +1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Glittering Wish (rework SB), +3 blue removal or bounce
That's what I would try and see how it goes. I think it's a bit more reliable.
know i am a little late to the party but ...:
i agree that 8 1 drop blue draws is not opt but its insurance. i would replace at this point replace ponder w/ preordain thats the only change i'd make. maybe drop 2
the real reason i am posting is firstly stifle is the best LD in the meta its a tempo card against decks that do run 20+ lands and its a game ender when someone keeps low land hands. i playin ANT scooped game one to this deck w/i 3 turns bec they stifled my fetch turn one. combined w/ wasteland they together can do serious damage. secondly in this deck w/ those things in mind YOU DON'T RUN PATH!!! you have 6/6s or better you've kept them off of big mana and fixing who cares if you give them some life and in a pinch it can give you life too. plus w/ daze and force you have very eff control.
Perish REALLY hates this deck. Like, perish reads "Kill all of NH's dudes" and if it kills two dudes it is a major beating. The reason new horizons is tier 1 though is because remember canadian thresh? Remember when it was tier 1? This deck is basically that deck but better, adapted to the metagame shifts and splashing white instead of red. It plays very much like can. thresh did, going stifle, waste your land, oops you are manaless I win I guess with a very large terravore. Om nom nom nom nom your face. Stifle + waste is a very potent combination against mana intensive decks and has proven to be time and again.
When I built this deck, it was very easy because you know how many staples are in this deck? All the duals, fetches, FoW, daze, stp, goyf, waste, and engineered explosives are staple cards. KotR is cheap as is vore; same with horizon canopy, stifle is pretty cheap and can maybe even make the list of staples this deck is composed of because of how versatile it is. Brainstorm is a staple and is a dollar anyways. But yeah, this deck is almost made out of legacy staples lol like most bant decks it starts with duals, fetches, brainstorm, fow, and goyf. Then it adds some other cards to suit its gameplan. Voila. We just made a legacy deck people.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I was thinking that this deck could with little effort run 2-3 Dreadnought along with thier stifles.
It will occasionally allow for some insane t2 drops backed by daze/fow but can also prove to be a very potent win con not affected by the yard. Should be easy to set up with 8 cantrips.
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"Should have draw a card on it, still only playable in casual or limited. I mean it loses to liquify"
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
I was thinking that this deck could with little effort run 2-3 Dreadnought along with thier stifles.
It will occasionally allow for some insane t2 drops backed by daze/fow but can also prove to be a very potent win con not affected by the yard. Should be easy to set up with 8 cantrips.
I play dreadstill mostly, and from what ive noticed, its difficult to just throw dreadnought into other decks. Its cool, its big, its flashy, and with little protection you're asking to lose 2 for 1. I've seen it tried in Tempo thresh, Team america and merfolk.
The issues:
1) You really really want to use your stifles to abuse your opponents mana base and other such things to generate tempo. Like lorescale coatl and brainstorm, people make bad plays knowing it can come or having it in hand.
2) Its a 2-of that you cant tutor for, so will rather inconsistently have it in your hand. or find it at the right times ponder/brainstorm still dont find things as consistently as you would like
3) Game 1, you already have 11 Huge creatures that are just as effective, less situational, more synergetic with the deck.
However, i think Sideboard Dreadnought may be awesome as they wont bring in artifact removal, GY hate wont hurt it nor will perish. Having 3 in the side may be a good G2/G3 alternative plan.
I am running the same list that is in the previous post -2 Ponder and +2 JtMS. Seems to work wonders. No sideboard yet... Just thought I would bump this and share a little.
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
thanks i meant landstill. i was trying to decide between landstill and new horizons. but i actually bought a landstill deck today on ebay. if i would of known new horizons was a good macth up against landstill. i would of stick with that deck because it is more my metagame. landstill is very heavy at my game shop there is like 9 players who already play it oh well.
Tempo rug, bant,esperblade,mavrick,sneak and show
I used a basic NH list but only ran 22 lands, with 1 jace, tms mainboard. works like a charm!
worm's harvest is very good as well!
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Why play Ratchet bomb when you can set EE for 0-3? Bomb takes a few turns to get up.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
1.deck does really well
2.everyone plays deck, continues to do well
3.people start packing hate for deck
4.deck dies down
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10800035#post10800035
Two of the deck's more iffy matchups, Merfolk and Goblins, either got cards that made their decks better ( Coralhelm Commander ) or became better positioned as a result of rising Merfolk popularity and waning combo options (Goblins).
The deck actually never had huge traction outside of a particular part of the US, so when the Vengevine Madness deck showed up and top 8'd the GP, it gave a lot of people an aggro deck to play that beat other aggro decks and yet wasn't completely helpless to losing to something awful like charbelcher.
The deck's best matchup was the pre-Mystical Tutor Reanimator decks, with positive matchup against Zoo or Ichorid, and a slightly better than even ANT matchup. With the realignment of the metagame after GP Columbus the deck just isn't in the strong place it was back in April-May of this year. In particular this deck always wants to have combo making up a large enough part of the metagame where people move away from Goblins and more towards Counterbalance.
The deck is honestly still a beast if you have a lot of some type of decks in your local metagame. It's still not a bad call at a 5K because Legacy is a format full of players who hate playing lands in their decks and stifle/waste sometimes just wins games on its own. It's still got enough good matchups where a prepared player can make their way to X-2 and be in the hunt at the end of seven or eight rounds with tight play and better than average pairing luck.
You just have to ask yourself if you couldn't get to X-2 with Vengevine Madness at its broken draws more easily, and right now the answer is probably not until people start to stuff their sideboards with Pithing Needles and Peacekeepers.
That being said, does New Horizons have any advantages over Survival Vengevine? I get the impression that New Horizons is a bit more reliable in the sense that it doesn't rely on much of a combo game plan, and isn't tripped up as badly against its creatures getting exiled, compared to someone exiling Vengevine (which is usually the largest creature and the main attacker in Survival Vengevine).
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
1. deck does well
2. had stifle manascrew plan
3. people added 2-3 moer basics
4. deck died
more accurate timeline =P (sry ill just take any moment to rag on new horizons)
Thanks to Theismisacrime for this beautiful signature over at damnation studios
Looking up each significant card on TCG Player (using approximate low values) in US dollars:
4 Knights @ $8 = $32
4 Goyf @ $45 = $180
3 Terravore @ $6 = $18
4 Brainstorm @ $1 = $4
4 Daze @ $2 = $8
2 EE @ $10 = $20
4 FoW @ $40 = $160
4 Stifle @ $12 = $48
4 StP @ $3 = $12
4 Horizon Canopy @ $4 = $16
4 Misty Rainforest @ $10 = $40
3 Tropical Island @ $70 = $210
3 Tundra @ $60 = $180
4 Wasteland @ $25 = $100
4 Windswept Heath @ $15 = $60
If I did the math right, we're looking at something like $1100 face value. Seems to be on the high end for tier 1 legacy deck price tags.
I think the biggest problem with this deck as far as bringing hate for it goes, is its vulnerable in so many ways so, the hate isnt necessarily dedicated to this deck in particular.
ex:
Relic/Crypt, worthwhile in legacy no one likes losing to dredge, hurts thresh if you still see it useful against stax/pox decks as well, makes all of horizons creatures tiny....
Perish, everyone is packing perish... hits this deck hard, but good to have in for vengevival, elves, zoo, and most other goyf decks...
Point being, this isnt ever a deck that people have to go out of their way to board for and its likely they find their hate cards as there are so many that can be used.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
Its still a very powerful deck w/ a good game plan can put on a quick clock. It has a lot of advantages.
But, likewise... it has flaws like every other deck... but, unlike some decks (like dredge) if you dont have specific hate for it, its bound to run over you, whereas you can manage to stumble into decent sb options to this deck and come into G2/G3 with a much better MU.
I dont think this deck needs to be hated on as it puts up good results, but i dont think has had the flare that decks like vengevival and reanimator or ANT get when they start taking tournaments like the flu.
Goblins is a tier 1 deck.... since forever it seems... and people always bring hate and it seems to continue to do well. Just because decks get hated on doesn't mean they don't perform well. I was addressing that i think some of the lack of popularity comes form this deck being able to be attacked by far more options than some of the other "tier 1" decks currently and to me that would drive away from its popularity not necessarily its potential as some of those forms of hate aren't game over, and FoW/Daze/Stifle/etc provide protection for the gameplan. But, i dont think any deck ever approaces NH g2 and is like hmm.... .i have nothing to help....and what they do have is usually a fairly heavy hit if it goes through. thinking perish/gy hate/moat/EE. (ok maybe moat is a stretch...)
Maybe that makes more sense?
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
know i am a little late to the party but ...:
i agree that 8 1 drop blue draws is not opt but its insurance. i would replace at this point replace ponder w/ preordain thats the only change i'd make. maybe drop 2
the real reason i am posting is firstly stifle is the best LD in the meta its a tempo card against decks that do run 20+ lands and its a game ender when someone keeps low land hands. i playin ANT scooped game one to this deck w/i 3 turns bec they stifled my fetch turn one. combined w/ wasteland they together can do serious damage. secondly in this deck w/ those things in mind YOU DON'T RUN PATH!!! you have 6/6s or better you've kept them off of big mana and fixing who cares if you give them some life and in a pinch it can give you life too. plus w/ daze and force you have very eff control.
PS stifle fetch makes daze so much better
When I built this deck, it was very easy because you know how many staples are in this deck? All the duals, fetches, FoW, daze, stp, goyf, waste, and engineered explosives are staple cards. KotR is cheap as is vore; same with horizon canopy, stifle is pretty cheap and can maybe even make the list of staples this deck is composed of because of how versatile it is. Brainstorm is a staple and is a dollar anyways. But yeah, this deck is almost made out of legacy staples lol like most bant decks it starts with duals, fetches, brainstorm, fow, and goyf. Then it adds some other cards to suit its gameplan. Voila. We just made a legacy deck people.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Build the board position, land a creature, fire it off, game over?
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
It will occasionally allow for some insane t2 drops backed by daze/fow but can also prove to be a very potent win con not affected by the yard. Should be easy to set up with 8 cantrips.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
What would you take out?
Cut down on the creature count?
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
I play dreadstill mostly, and from what ive noticed, its difficult to just throw dreadnought into other decks. Its cool, its big, its flashy, and with little protection you're asking to lose 2 for 1. I've seen it tried in Tempo thresh, Team america and merfolk.
The issues:
1) You really really want to use your stifles to abuse your opponents mana base and other such things to generate tempo. Like lorescale coatl and brainstorm, people make bad plays knowing it can come or having it in hand.
2) Its a 2-of that you cant tutor for, so will rather inconsistently have it in your hand. or find it at the right times ponder/brainstorm still dont find things as consistently as you would like
3) Game 1, you already have 11 Huge creatures that are just as effective, less situational, more synergetic with the deck.
However, i think Sideboard Dreadnought may be awesome as they wont bring in artifact removal, GY hate wont hurt it nor will perish. Having 3 in the side may be a good G2/G3 alternative plan.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
Very good article on New Horizons.
Soul Sisters WB & The Gate B
Vial Knights W & Crucible Pox B
Faerie Stompy U & Burn R
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298966
On Thunderous Wrath
Keon on MODO
I however have been runnning a list with only 8 creatures and 2 spell pierces MD +1 extra land.
Also I added red for sideboard firespout since there are a lot of tribal in my area. Worked out really good. Thinking about bringing it again.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron