Yeppers that is the one.
WHat is the plan for this deck versus a turn 1 Trinisphere/Sphere of resistance? With Grim Monolith unbanned I would think this would be a common thing versus Stax.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
So for a threat that isnt weak why not the Angel that morphs? Cant remember her name for the life of me. Morph her for 2ww and she is a flying 4/4 with lifelink. Was a hugely poplular card a couple years ago.
I'll go out on a limb and suggest Restore Balance. I know its kinda wonky but this deck wouldn't mind its drawbacks.
Oh and why no White Knight? I don't disagree with the Knight Exemplar comment either.
She is called exalted angel and my list already runs 3 of her.
Why no knights? They lack evasion and that is extremely important in stalled games which this deck has many of.
What do you guys think of running the new leyline of sanctity in the main?
+Opening hand its free
+Tutorable answer to many combo decks, burn, discard, edicts, etc
My friend and I have discovered an amazing way to improve the deck and make it extremely aggressive while still retaining its control aspect. I will be play testing it for the next few weeks and I'll let you guys know the results. I'm very happy with this build.
My friend and I have discovered an amazing way to improve the deck and make it extremely aggressive while still retaining its control aspect. I will be play testing it for the next few weeks and I'll let you guys know the results. I'm very happy with this build.
I'm playing with a new list that runs Suppression Field. It seems incredibly aggressive while stalling and playing nice with Suppression Field, though I have yet to put it through the full testing gauntlet.
The numbers are still a bit rough, though I thought it could be a ways to give the deck a method to reload. Goldfishing has shown it could recover quickly from wrath effects, but fast aggro like zoo can still be a problem. The mana source count also may have to be upped by 1 or 2, but I'll see if I have to do that later after more tests.
I'm playing with a new list that runs Suppression Field. It seems incredibly aggressive while stalling and playing nice with Suppression Field, though I have yet to put it through the full testing gauntlet.
The numbers are still a bit rough, though I thought it could be a ways to give the deck a method to reload. Goldfishing has shown it could recover quickly from wrath effects, but fast aggro like zoo can still be a problem. The mana source count also may have to be upped by 1 or 2, but I'll see if I have to do that later after more tests.
Any other thoughts?
I like some parts of the deck, but if you're playing against fast aggro and not maindecking 4 swords at the very least, how do you expect to beat them? Armageddon is going to help a deck packing goyf and kotr. You can play a defensive game with first strike and eventually overwhelm, or at least force them on the defensive. However, it will favor the deck with reach pretty well, unfortunately.
Question: Why the banneret? He's a 2 drop that helps himself, your lord, and the ranger of eos drop maybe one turn earlier. Everything else has no colorless to effect. Might that not be a slot better used somewhere else?
So I've been play testing the deck against some of the competitive decks I've seen with positive results for the most part. The toughest mus are heavy control and elves.
Here is my list:
Lands:
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Darksteel Citadel
12 Plains
Creatures:
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Exalted Angel
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Flickerwisp
2 Windborn Muse
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
I like some parts of the deck, but if you're playing against fast aggro and not maindecking 4 swords at the very least, how do you expect to beat them? Armageddon is going to help a deck packing goyf and kotr. You can play a defensive game with first strike and eventually overwhelm, or at least force them on the defensive. However, it will favor the deck with reach pretty well, unfortunately.
Question: Why the banneret? He's a 2 drop that helps himself, your lord, and the ranger of eos drop maybe one turn earlier. Everything else has no colorless to effect. Might that not be a slot better used somewhere else?
Actually the banneret has been pretty good so far. He makes dropping the Enlistment officer faster in addition to all the cards you mentioned. Ways to refill your hand haver always been great. I'm toying with Preeminent Captain at the moment as well which would also benefit from the banneret, but I'm not yet sure if I need it.
As for the lack of 4 swords I was actually thinking of upping the count to 4. It is still a work in progress. The deck can pull off some explosive turns, though it does not have the speed of some of the fast aggro decks. Some of my more recent testing has seen it can make your board go nuts especially since you can refill your hand with soldiers and cast them that same turn. It needs more work so any input is appreciated since I don't get to test very often anymore.
Actually the banneret has been pretty good so far. He makes dropping the Enlistment officer faster in addition to all the cards you mentioned. Ways to refill your hand haver always been great. I'm toying with Preeminent Captain at the moment as well which would also benefit from the banneret, but I'm not yet sure if I need it.
As for the lack of 4 swords I was actually thinking of upping the count to 4. It is still a work in progress. The deck can pull off some explosive turns, though it does not have the speed of some of the fast aggro decks. Some of my more recent testing has seen it can make your board go nuts especially since you can refill your hand with soldiers and cast them that same turn. It needs more work so any input is appreciated since I don't get to test very often anymore.
Don't you think the soldier strategy is a little intensive for this deck? It may as well be almost soldier stompy instead of suppression. What do you think of the morph list? It has been winning more and more games (still loses pretty hard against control if I can't establish a lock first, but then again combo usually loses to control). Once red akroma flips there is almost nothing they can do. You can lock them out with prisons and fields and feel free to swing as much as you want.
The soldier strategy is pretty intensive, as it is an aggro based Suppression field deck that happens to be tribal. However, it forgoes other utility soldiers with activated abilities due to Suppression field. I also ended up choosing the shell since Ranger and Enlistment Officer are ways for the deck to have actual card advantage. Running the Enlistment officer kinda forced me to have a higher density of soldiers. I also wanted the ability to apply early pressure while still having a pretty decent late game. Suppression Field is still a key component of the deck, it just a lot more aggressive list.
I haven't tried the morph list yet since I don't have it on paper. It looks interesting but I would have to give it a run first.
The soldier strategy is pretty intensive, as it is an aggro based Suppression field deck that happens to be tribal. However, it forgoes other utility soldiers with activated abilities due to Suppression field. I also ended up choosing the shell since Ranger and Enlistment Officer are ways for the deck to have actual card advantage. Running the Enlistment officer kinda forced me to have a higher density of soldiers. I also wanted the ability to apply early pressure while still having a pretty decent late game. Suppression Field is still a key component of the deck, it just a lot more aggressive list.
I haven't tried the morph list yet since I don't have it on paper. It looks interesting but I would have to give it a run first.
You should. It is a very quick win (depending on your hand). I was actually thinking of putting in 2 Linvala Keeper of Secrets as well. A bit pricey, but sooo good with our strategy.
The morph idea has worked for me. Nobody wants to see either angel coming at them. Suppression Field slows most decks to a crawl. I run Cataclysm as my lock out card. To me its the same cost as Armageddon with the added bonus of nerfing dudes.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
It is fun isn't it? I feel like I should run more powderkegs in the main though as they are so good. Perhaps we can even find an extra artifact or enchantment win condition as this deck still needs a bit of speeding up.
The morph idea has worked for me. Nobody wants to see either angel coming at them. Suppression Field slows most decks to a crawl. I run Cataclysm as my lock out card. To me its the same cost as Armageddon with the added bonus of nerfing dudes.
I agree, Cataclysm is a much better choice in this deck.
But then the deck looks a lot more like Death and taxes, you put in vials, serra avenger and before you know it, you have mangara and karakas engine running on your opponent with vial set to three counters.
I'll put this bluntly. If a really cool, unique guy went up to a normal girl, and is ugly, he's weird. if he goes up and is hot, then he's cool and unique.
Standard
It's like watching grass grow, except it's ridculously expensive.
I agree, Cataclysm is a much better choice in this deck.
But then the deck looks a lot more like Death and taxes, you put in vials, serra avenger and before you know it, you have mangara and karakas engine running on your opponent with vial set to three counters.
First of all this deck doesn't and cannot use vial, therefore making flickerwisp worse in that sense. Secondly this deck cannot use mangara or karakas because of the mana intensive tapping.
I used to run Serra Avenger and the kill was just way too slow.
Cataclysm is not a better choice because it hurts you too much. Having multiple suppression fields, ghostly prisons, etcs is a good thing. Also leaving them with 1 land is a terrible idea.
If you disagree then please make your points for cataclysm in the context of my build.
Well I just beat Counter-Top Goyf with a morph list. Exalted resolved with a Winter Orb or Suppression Field is hard to get out from under. Gheddon has made its way back into my list. Clysm is good versus swarms but not so great versus Show and Tell and random Single bigs.
My only loss came from a Eva-Green deck so far. I also am considering removing the Knight of the Holy Nimbus for something more awesome. I just haven't needed his ability and I never attack with him since he is so small.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Well I just beat Counter-Top Goyf with a morph list. Exalted resolved with a Winter Orb or Suppression Field is hard to get out from under. Gheddon has made its way back into my list. Clysm is good versus swarms but not so great versus Show and Tell and random Single bigs.
My only loss came from a Eva-Green deck so far. I also am considering removing the Knight of the Holy Nimbus for something more awesome. I just haven't needed his ability and I never attack with him since he is so small.
I agree, but in my eyes he functions as a deterant to their attacks so my angels can swing away. Glad you've had success with the build. Yes control decks and mono B control are tough for us. What is your list?
Lol. I don't run Tutor. I love that cat. Moat does seem like it has a spot. Then again I was playing with the idea of Mesa Enchantress for some reach. Since most lists I run have 12-20 Enchants.
Oh and against counters you can always try Replenish. I really like this deck with all of its options.
@ Flickerwisp. Great card in all but not good in this deck. I now only play Exalted and not Akroma. Too card intensive. I like my deck to function as separate parts.
I may also tinker with the idea of Trinisphere since we have the hate bear.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Cat ≈ 8 Suppression Field? Makes me want to rethink the possibilities. Should the deck be more focused in what it controls? What does having a major control aspect in a 2/2 body entail for the stability of the deck?
btw, I do like Cataclysm. I haven't tested it myself, but it would appear to me to be effective. I'd say if you got to keep one land, one Winter Orb, one Suppression Field/Ghostly Prison, and one creature, your field is looking almost as good as it can look, whereas theirs leaves a lot to be desired. If I were to rebuild, I would immediately add Cataclysm to my build.
Cat ≈ 8 Suppression Field? Makes me want to rethink the possibilities. Should the deck be more focused in what it controls? What does having a major control aspect in a 2/2 body entail for the stability of the deck?
btw, I do like Cataclysm. I haven't tested it myself, but it would appear to me to be effective. I'd say if you got to keep one land, one Winter Orb, one Suppression Field/Ghostly Prison, and one creature, your field is looking almost as good as it can look, whereas theirs leaves a lot to be desired. If I were to rebuild, I would immediately add Cataclysm to my build.
I like it over Gheddon. But if I where to do that I would want something that helps keep my Kitty alive. Think about if you can resolve Gheddon or Clysm with the Cat out. 90% of the top decks out there are completely hosed. Pack your single mana removal. Which would now be Path to Exile since they get nothing with the cat out. Just seems like a strong contender to me. Turns of all the best cards in the entire format.
I played against a guy running natural Order with Progentius. He thought it was good game on his turn 4. I had a Angel and a field on the board. I took the 10 shot and hit with angel netting me the extra 4 life. I dropped Ghostly Prison and passed. he simply paid and hit for 10 more. I simply untapped and cast my Gheddon and then I said GG. Serioudly Gheddon and Clysm are so hard for people to get out from under. now with the cat that bacically kills fetches this deck is awesome.
Have we touched on the usefulness of Samurai of the Pail Curtain? Helps to slow dredge and is also a good sized body.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
What do you run to flicker exalted then? Do you just hard morph her? No enlightened tutors at all? I find the tool box to be very helpful. What is your current list?
The problems I found with the older builds is that they were too slow and allowed the opponent to stabilize. I could see red akroma leaving the list along with other worldly, but definitely not flickerwisp. He is a 3/1 flying beater...
WHat is the plan for this deck versus a turn 1 Trinisphere/Sphere of resistance? With Grim Monolith unbanned I would think this would be a common thing versus Stax.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
She is called exalted angel and my list already runs 3 of her.
Why no knights? They lack evasion and that is extremely important in stalled games which this deck has many of.
+Opening hand its free
+Tutorable answer to many combo decks, burn, discard, edicts, etc
-Costs 4
I'll be waiting for the list)
4 Chrome Mox
15 Plains
2 Flagstones of Trokair
Creatures: 30
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Veteran Armorsmith
4 Ballyrush Banneret
4 Field Marshall
4 Enlistment Officer
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Suppression Field
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Armageddon
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Brave the Elements
3 Relic of Progenitus
The numbers are still a bit rough, though I thought it could be a ways to give the deck a method to reload. Goldfishing has shown it could recover quickly from wrath effects, but fast aggro like zoo can still be a problem. The mana source count also may have to be upped by 1 or 2, but I'll see if I have to do that later after more tests.
Any other thoughts?
I like some parts of the deck, but if you're playing against fast aggro and not maindecking 4 swords at the very least, how do you expect to beat them? Armageddon is going to help a deck packing goyf and kotr. You can play a defensive game with first strike and eventually overwhelm, or at least force them on the defensive. However, it will favor the deck with reach pretty well, unfortunately.
Question: Why the banneret? He's a 2 drop that helps himself, your lord, and the ranger of eos drop maybe one turn earlier. Everything else has no colorless to effect. Might that not be a slot better used somewhere else?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I actually steered it away from your traditional kill condition and made it a tad combo.
HINT HINT:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122432
Here is my list:
Lands:
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Darksteel Citadel
12 Plains
Creatures:
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Exalted Angel
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Flickerwisp
2 Windborn Muse
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Instants:
3 Otherworldly Journey
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Enlightened Tutor
Sorceries:
3 Armageddon
Artifacts:
2 Powderkeg
4 Chrome Mox
Enchantments:
4 Suppression field
1 Runed Halo
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Ghostly Prison
I've edited this to reflect my current build.
Actually the banneret has been pretty good so far. He makes dropping the Enlistment officer faster in addition to all the cards you mentioned. Ways to refill your hand haver always been great. I'm toying with Preeminent Captain at the moment as well which would also benefit from the banneret, but I'm not yet sure if I need it.
As for the lack of 4 swords I was actually thinking of upping the count to 4. It is still a work in progress. The deck can pull off some explosive turns, though it does not have the speed of some of the fast aggro decks. Some of my more recent testing has seen it can make your board go nuts especially since you can refill your hand with soldiers and cast them that same turn. It needs more work so any input is appreciated since I don't get to test very often anymore.
Don't you think the soldier strategy is a little intensive for this deck? It may as well be almost soldier stompy instead of suppression. What do you think of the morph list? It has been winning more and more games (still loses pretty hard against control if I can't establish a lock first, but then again combo usually loses to control). Once red akroma flips there is almost nothing they can do. You can lock them out with prisons and fields and feel free to swing as much as you want.
I haven't tried the morph list yet since I don't have it on paper. It looks interesting but I would have to give it a run first.
You should. It is a very quick win (depending on your hand). I was actually thinking of putting in 2 Linvala Keeper of Secrets as well. A bit pricey, but sooo good with our strategy.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Luminarch Ascension
Opal Guardian
And unfortunately...
Moat
Round 1 (Countertop)
Pulled through with a pro blue akroma
Round 2(Dreadstill)
I wasn't watching, but he lost due to the other guy having control
Round 3 (Elves)
Tough Match, but exalted angel raced terastodon in one of the games.
Round 4 (ANT/TES)
I didn't watch this game either, but he pulled through 2-0!
Round 5 (Don't remember)
Round 6 (Don't remember)
I agree, Cataclysm is a much better choice in this deck.
But then the deck looks a lot more like Death and taxes, you put in vials, serra avenger and before you know it, you have mangara and karakas engine running on your opponent with vial set to three counters.
First of all this deck doesn't and cannot use vial, therefore making flickerwisp worse in that sense. Secondly this deck cannot use mangara or karakas because of the mana intensive tapping.
I used to run Serra Avenger and the kill was just way too slow.
Cataclysm is not a better choice because it hurts you too much. Having multiple suppression fields, ghostly prisons, etcs is a good thing. Also leaving them with 1 land is a terrible idea.
If you disagree then please make your points for cataclysm in the context of my build.
My only loss came from a Eva-Green deck so far. I also am considering removing the Knight of the Holy Nimbus for something more awesome. I just haven't needed his ability and I never attack with him since he is so small.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I agree, but in my eyes he functions as a deterant to their attacks so my angels can swing away. Glad you've had success with the build. Yes control decks and mono B control are tough for us. What is your list?
Maybe moat serves the same function?
Too bad we run enlightened tutor.
Lol. I don't run Tutor. I love that cat. Moat does seem like it has a spot. Then again I was playing with the idea of Mesa Enchantress for some reach. Since most lists I run have 12-20 Enchants.
Oh and against counters you can always try Replenish. I really like this deck with all of its options.
@ Flickerwisp. Great card in all but not good in this deck. I now only play Exalted and not Akroma. Too card intensive. I like my deck to function as separate parts.
I may also tinker with the idea of Trinisphere since we have the hate bear.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
btw, I do like Cataclysm. I haven't tested it myself, but it would appear to me to be effective. I'd say if you got to keep one land, one Winter Orb, one Suppression Field/Ghostly Prison, and one creature, your field is looking almost as good as it can look, whereas theirs leaves a lot to be desired. If I were to rebuild, I would immediately add Cataclysm to my build.
Theros Block / Anax & Cymede
Return to Ravnica Block / Vorel of the Hull Clade
Khans of Tarkir Block / Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
Peasant:
Kuldotha Red
Commander:
Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I like it over Gheddon. But if I where to do that I would want something that helps keep my Kitty alive. Think about if you can resolve Gheddon or Clysm with the Cat out. 90% of the top decks out there are completely hosed. Pack your single mana removal. Which would now be Path to Exile since they get nothing with the cat out. Just seems like a strong contender to me. Turns of all the best cards in the entire format.
I played against a guy running natural Order with Progentius. He thought it was good game on his turn 4. I had a Angel and a field on the board. I took the 10 shot and hit with angel netting me the extra 4 life. I dropped Ghostly Prison and passed. he simply paid and hit for 10 more. I simply untapped and cast my Gheddon and then I said GG. Serioudly Gheddon and Clysm are so hard for people to get out from under. now with the cat that bacically kills fetches this deck is awesome.
Have we touched on the usefulness of Samurai of the Pail Curtain? Helps to slow dredge and is also a good sized body.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
The problems I found with the older builds is that they were too slow and allowed the opponent to stabilize. I could see red akroma leaving the list along with other worldly, but definitely not flickerwisp. He is a 3/1 flying beater...