A long, long time ago, Wizards had decided that they were going to make a green creature that was worth talking about, a card that will strike fear into the hearts of the opponents. Their name for it? Tarmogoyf.
Ok, while its not that long ago, Tarmogoyf’s impact on Magic community has been monumental, warping a standard environment and allowing for green to be playable other than just survival of the fittest. Tarmogoyf allowed for a subtle green splash in an old archetype, Sligh, which was traditionally 20 Land, 20 Creatures, 20 Spells.
Sligh has limited effect on Legacy by itself, and BG (before Goyf) the only really splashable Green creatures were the Dryads (Both Quirion and Sophisticate were used on several occasions), then along came Goyf, and we got Decklists like:
The exact makeup has been argued with this deck, the creature base in particular. You have the old timers (I guess im included in this) who run Quirion Dryad still as Goyf support, then you have the new kids on the block who run Figure of Destiny
I myself prefer the Dryad variant, as a dryad can be very pivotal in the life race, and with cards like Lightning Bolt in this deck the card can really grow fast enough to rival a goyf.
Some cardinal rules of running Goyf Sligh are
“-It’s better to start off with a creature rather than burn, except when your opponent’s on the play and casts a Lackey. More on this later.
-Maximize your mana. Take advantage of the fact that the deck’s curve is pretty low.
-Don’t be afraid to block! Yes, this is an aggro deck, but when you’re forced to block (which is usually in the late game), don’t panic. You have burn for reach anyway.
-Aiming your 3 damage spells at X/1’s if you have to clear the way is not wastage. Especially not when you absolutely have to kill the creature (Confidant, Mother of Runes, etc.)
-Sacrificing lands for Fireblast in response to LD is sometimes the better play, even when it leaves you with one land. Better than nothing, plus it feeds your Lavamancer.”
Quoted from the source http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5166
All in all, Goyf sligh is a deck that is generally used as either an intro to legacy or a way to touch up on your skills because it doesn’t require to much thought as compared to say, a Combo deck.
The current problem and cause for lack of Goyf-Sligh in the current meta, aside from it being a bread-and-butter aggro deck is the entrance of Zoo in the meta, with cards like Wild Nacatl Which is bigger than our stuff, like Goblin Guide.
My current deck:
4 Goblin Guide: Replaced Mogg Fanatic after the M10 rules change, this was needed. can start putting pressure early enough that he can really be a force, and the drawback is minimal against most decks.
4 Tarmogoyf: requires no explanation, what made this deck what it is. Its just dumb power
4 Grim Lavamancer: people have started to lean away recently, but I still think this card is unfathomably needed, and never can stand to cut it for to long
4 Chain Lightning: virtually the same thing but with sorcery speed
2-4 Fireblast: Hawtsauce in a can, this card can win you games, use wastelanded Taiga’s spot pump a dryad, its just to good to pass up
2-4 Price of Progress: punishes control decks fro, well, being control. Can really cripple opposing decks, causing upwards of 8-10 damage.
Other Card Choices:
Rancor: This card is not really optimal in a straight forward 20/20/20 build, but can be pretty deadly in a heavy creature deck
Mogg Fanatic: Once an auto include for his combat tricks and general nastiness, the little niche creature doesn't see too much play anymore because he can't be abused as much. shows how much a wizards rule change can affect everyone
Reckless Charge: The same situation as Rancor, don't use unless you expect a mjority of your damage to come through creatures
Pyrite Spellsbomb: If the meta your in runs lots of Protection from white (i.e. Silver Knight) this card can be a house, as a Knight wearing a Jitte is basically game over for you
Tarfire: Good for it's tribal giving a little goyf boost but thats about it. in a format that lets you get away with Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, tar is pretty underwhelming
Brute Force: Really unneeded, there are lists that do run it for the, again, added creature boost and can do ok in a Dryad build, but I have never really apreciated the card
Seal of Fire: I will sometimes catch myself looking at this as a one-of, but the card doesn't really earn a spot because of all the 1-for-3's in the format, and it is generally only used to get the extra +1 for Goofy's
Lava Dart: This is one of those CArds that i'm still torn on because of it's Versatility with the dryad, plus it can rock the world of goblin's with it's 2nd chance opportunity
Shard Volley: Not really used to often because of Fireblast, but hey, 3-for-1 is hard to ignore
Umezawa's Jitte: I believe the card is to mana heavy, and if you are playing this, 75% of the time its to remove you're opponents Jitte
Chain of Plasma: If you're looking for a 2cc 3 damage spell, run incenerate
Shock: Really? if you're going to deal with jank, run Tarfire...
Reckless Abandon: This card seems good on paper, and I haven't tested enough to know really how good it is, but in current testing i'm not such a fan
Blood Knight: Good against a WW heavy meta or just a creature heavy meta, as it can do some pretty nice tricks with its first strike coupled with burn
Cursed Scroll: To mana intensive in my opinion, but if you want to run it, go for it
Matchups:
ANT: Heavily Unfavorable
You better pray you can get enough damage in to upset their Ad Nauseum chain, another bit of wistful thinking is that you may be able to pull a fireblast to ruin their day pre-tendrils
Sideboard: not much you have, if you expect to see this, run Pyrostatic Pillar
43Land.dec: Slightly Un-Favorable
Sometimes you can just prove to fast for them, and price of progress is a must when facing them. Resolving a Grim Lavamancer is pretty key in the matchup, as he can generally be ridden for the win in most circumstances.
Speed isn the 100% must do here, you should worry yourself more with sticking threats (i.e. Goyf, Lavamancer, Dryad)
Sideboard: Include your Red Elemental Blast’s and/or your Pyroblasts here, and bring in your extra Price of Progress’s because landing 16 damage for 2 mana ain’t so bad
Aggro Loam: Slightly Favorable
Don’t be afraid to mulligan against them, you need to have 2 lands online by turn 2 if you are going to expect to beat them. Other than that, if you ride your goyfs the race with the burn can really go a long way.
Sideboard: Pithing Needle is a must, and you might want to bring in those Krosan grips if you think you have to cut through some chalices/Assaults, though I have never found the room
Goblins: Even
Its aggro vs. aggro, basically whomever can get a faster start will win the game. It’s a pretty even matchup, and all your bur can really help keep the board clean, just watch out for when they’re able to string 4 ringleaders in a row (am I the only one that that happens to?)
Sideboard: Pyrokenesis if you want to try a more controly approach (the game can get ridiculous if you can land 1 or 2 of these sweepers along with a lavamancer), and Price of Progress can come in if they run multiple colors
Affinity: Favorable
I’ve never had a difficult time against this deck, even when it was in standard, and what I have found when using this deck is your spot removal (especially Grim Lavamancer) can wreck there day. Price of Progress is an allstar, seeing as they run little to no basics.
Sideboard: if you are afraid of Affinity, you might want to pack some Shattering Sprees, but if you run the catch-all sideboard I presented, Krosan grip can rock their socks, along with additional Price of Progress’s and Pithing needle
Burn: Slightly Favorable
Burn has always seemed to me like Sligh’s slightly uglier younger brother. With your creatures and straight burn as long as you don’t draw straight land, you should be pretty ahead of them, but like any aggro vs aggro deck, its off to the races from turn 1.
Sideboard: there really isn’t much to sideboard in/out versus this deck, as it performs very well pre-board, but if you really are hurtin’ for something, all I can think of is running some Dragon Claw
Ichorid: Even leaning on slightly unfavorable
You have your mogg fanatics to get rid of their bridge from belows, and Grim Lavamancer can really be a homerun hitter here to (constant zombie/ichorid removal or can even catch himself to nuke a bridge), even Keldon Marauders can put a clock on their bridge, you’re really going to be looking for your burn to take you the whole 9 yards though.
Sideboard: Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progentius are really the two best options if you are expecting some dredge, but scrabbling claw can also do the job if you need it to. I would advise ditching your PoPs postboard seeing as they don’t do much
Sui-Black: Favorable
This deck is pretty managable, seeing as they GIVE you free shocks with how much damage they do to themselves. if you hit a Goyf, thats ggenerally good game because they don't have anything bigger unless they're packing along their Tombstalkers. Look to your Burn here to round this game up.
Sideboard: There's not much you can sideboard here b, but you could always pull in some copies of Pyrostatic Pillar if you wanted
Fish-Fish: Slightly Favorable
With plenty of burn to make sure they stay lordless, this i sa pretty straight forward matchup. since most of your burn is going to be making sure that there utility creatures don't stay on the board, your going to need to getr alot of mileage out of Goyf/Dryad/Marauders/Figure/Ape. this deck can bee fairly easy to play against after yyou play against it enough, just remember, unless your sitting on a Lavamancer or multiple Goyfs, NEVER hesitate to smash a standstill.
Sideboard: REB's are golden here, while i generally cut my PoP's and Rift Bolt's (my Burn is generally focused towards Lord killing), you can always run Pyrokeneisis in your SB to help take the edge off to
***Please do not post casual/budget decklists***
here, i understand you might not be able to buy
Goyfs, but if you want help on what to replace him with
I recommend you go to the developing competitive
forums so that they may find you
"The next best thing"
Here's a link to the Dryad Sligh primer I made waaaay back. Dryad has since been updated to Goyf, and Slith to Marauders, but all the concepts/strategies/card choices still apply.
Well since this is a new thread I think it's acceptable for me to ask a nooby question. With this deck, how do I know if I should side out creatures or burns, and which creature or burn in each case (or maybe a split)? Is there a general guideline that I can follow?
thank you, i'm guessing that i have your permission to put the link in the primer so that others can use it as a reference?
Sure, no problem. I couldn't update it though, since I've since shifted to other decks - but like I said, the principles and strategies are still the same. The creatures just got better.
Well since this is a new thread I think it's acceptable for me to ask a nooby question. With this deck, how do I know if I should side out creatures or burns, and which creature or burn in each case (or maybe a split)? Is there a general guideline that I can follow?
Comments about my list are also appreciated. Thanks.
well th sideboarding all depends on the deck you're playing. for instance, if you're playing Merfolk, you can SB out the PoP's for REB's because you won't get as much gas out of the Price of Progress's. if you're playing something like Aggro Loam where yuo don't expect to have much mana, you can side out the figures for Shattering Spree or Grip to catch their Chalice.
As for your list, it looks pretty much clear cut, the only thing i would advise is to cut either the Grips or Sprees (i prefer Grips), because there really is no reason to pack 7 forms of artifact hate unless your meta IS Affinity.
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
I included the 3 Sprees in because I see stax players in my meta quite often and although I can imagine my Grip doing just the job well by itself, having more artifact hate would never hurt against them. Though thinking about it again, it might be overkill to bring in 7 cards to deal with them so I'm probably going to replace 3 Sprees and 1 Gaea's Blessing for 4 Pithing Needle.
Regarding the SB question, are there any cards that I should never SB out?
why are there actually only 4 relevant match ups to the current meta? For example you should also be including the various types of Threshold, Survival, Merfolk, and Dreadstill, among others in the match up analysis for the deck...
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I included the 3 Sprees in because I see stax players in my meta quite often and although I can imagine my Grip doing just the job well by itself, having more artifact hate would never hurt against them. Though thinking about it again, it might be overkill to bring in 7 cards to deal with them so I'm probably going to replace 3 Sprees and 1 Gaea's Blessing for 4 Pithing Needle.
Regarding the SB question, are there any cards that I should never SB out?
well thats a tough question, and the only one that i can think of that should NEVER be sided out is probably just Lightning Bolt and Tarmogoyf, just because they are spectacular and kind of allow this deck to be competitive. there are various circumstances where everything can/should be boarded out (I guess Goyf if they pack enough MD GY hate that you can't get him past a 2/3 reliably) that its a tough call. really the only thing i would never board out is my 1 - for - 3's even if they run Chalice, because i can always grip it.
why are there actually only 4 relevant match ups to the current meta? For example you should also be including the various types of Threshold, Survival, Merfolk, and Dreadstill, among others in the match up analysis for the deck...
because i haven't had ample testing against them. i'll be running this againsyt Dreadstil next week, and an epic elf survival, but the MWS meta is so unreliable that i can't say i've played them enough. I'll put the Merf up shortly though, i think i've played them enough
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
because i haven't had ample testing against them. i'll be running this againsyt Dreadstil next week, and an epic elf survival, but the MWS meta is so unreliable that i can't say i've played them enough. I'll put the Merf up shortly though, i think i've played them enough
have you considered asking people from this forum for assistance in testing the deck? Cause I am pretty sure alot of us are familiar with at least one other deck in the format that we would be able to help you test against...
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
have you considered asking people from this forum for assistance in testing the deck? Cause I am pretty sure alot of us are familiar with at least one other deck in the format that we would be able to help you test against...
that would be super cool, but i've got a really hectic schedule right now, and am trying to get as much playing time as i can with the deck. i will start sending out PMs to see who all wants to test.
Also, does anyone have any comments about this deck? i would really love some more outside input
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
Some decks I've seen recently that top8ed ran a build with a white splash for Wild Nacatl and Lightning Helix in the main and Gaddock Teeg or Ethersworn Canonist in the SB to shore up the combo matchup. Has anyone tested these builds over the traditional RG builds and if so how did you feel about it?
The Manabase is aweful, but the core is interesting.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Some decks I've seen recently that top8ed ran a build with a white splash for Wild Nacatl and Lightning Helix in the main and Gaddock Teeg or Ethersworn Canonist in the SB to shore up the combo matchup. Has anyone tested these builds over the traditional RG builds and if so how did you feel about it?
i have not figuring it was a more zoo like build but i guess i can try.
does anyone still run the traditional Dryad build? i ahve been playing it to much success recently
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
So I reworked my deck, played a couple games against the decks my friend and I had handy, which where solidarity, dreadstill, ugr threshold, and pox.
What I can see is that I need an answer to a resolved Phyrexian Dreadnough, but I don't need it maindeck. I liked to Respond to my own PtP with Fireblast saccing my nonbasics, and winning the game instead of causing a draw when my opponent was at... 11, and I was at 2.
Solidarity is too slow, but that's a given. I guess it remained a wicked fun combo deck but it just has a hard time against both counterbalance strategies and a fast-paced aggro deck.
Canadian thresh is probably the better deck of the 3, but I managed to win cause this deck dosen't play counter-top and it's hurt bad by a resolved Price to Progress.
Pox was unwinnable. Totally unwinnable. I dunno if it's me.
So I came to realise that Path to Exile is not definitively maindeck material, I really like the idea that Sword's to Plowshare's effect might be used uncounterproductively with burn spells, but it's not good all the time in a sligh deck.
I borrowed the tech from the poster above about Vexing Shusher. It makes or break the game. If they let it stay in play, it bends the game. If they remove it, they're not removing tarmogoyf.
Quirion Dryad is not good enough in the late game. I have absolutely zero cards in hand, a taiga and a plateau in play, my opponent is at 2 and I draw
a) Quirion Dryad, or a land
b) Anything Else
If the answer is b, I win this turn or next turn
If the answer is a, I just might not make it there.
The same was true when a) was Path to Exile, and that's why I cut it from the maindeck.
Price of Progress is sick, but it's dead in some matches, so 3 appears to me as the right number since I opted for a 3-3-3-3-3 sideboard with artifact hate, fatties hate, combo hate, edge in the aggro matchup and generic blue hate.
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I play 9 land stompy and want to do something rather fun with the side board so i was thinking of doing a Transformational Sideboard to make it a sligh deck.
For starters you don't have any red mana producers. I'd say that's a problem.
Secondly, you aren't running goyf. Trying to make this into goyf sligh sans goyfs is counter-intuitive.
Thirdly, you aren't going to be able to get the level of burn spells in your deck unless you mostly dedicate your board to burn. While no one would probably board in red elemental blasts against you, you're still going to be _very_ succeptable to chalice and unable to deal with it.
ya, your going to need the bolts/chains/fireblasts. the dec really wouldn't have a chance if you tried that i dont think, but if you wanna take a stab at it, go for gold, and tell us how it worked
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
So I reworked my deck, played a couple games against the decks my friend and I had handy, which where solidarity, dreadstill, ugr threshold, and pox.
What I can see is that I need an answer to a resolved Phyrexian Dreadnough, but I don't need it maindeck. I liked to Respond to my own PtP with Fireblast saccing my nonbasics, and winning the game instead of causing a draw when my opponent was at... 11, and I was at 2.
Solidarity is too slow, but that's a given. I guess it remained a wicked fun combo deck but it just has a hard time against both counterbalance strategies and a fast-paced aggro deck.
Canadian thresh is probably the better deck of the 3, but I managed to win cause this deck dosen't play counter-top and it's hurt bad by a resolved Price to Progress.
Pox was unwinnable. Totally unwinnable. I dunno if it's me.
So I came to realise that Path to Exile is not definitively maindeck material, I really like the idea that Sword's to Plowshare's effect might be used uncounterproductively with burn spells, but it's not good all the time in a sligh deck.
I borrowed the tech from the poster above about Vexing Shusher. It makes or break the game. If they let it stay in play, it bends the game. If they remove it, they're not removing tarmogoyf.
Quirion Dryad is not good enough in the late game. I have absolutely zero cards in hand, a taiga and a plateau in play, my opponent is at 2 and I draw
a) Quirion Dryad, or a land
b) Anything Else
If the answer is b, I win this turn or next turn
If the answer is a, I just might not make it there.
The same was true when a) was Path to Exile, and that's why I cut it from the maindeck.
Price of Progress is sick, but it's dead in some matches, so 3 appears to me as the right number since I opted for a 3-3-3-3-3 sideboard with artifact hate, fatties hate, combo hate, edge in the aggro matchup and generic blue hate.
Solidarity too slow? How good was the player? You run no disruption, this matchup is a cake walk to Solidarity.
Dont play 2 seal, play 1/1 seal/tarfire. Why? because theres no reason not to, usually you'll only draw 1 (or niether) a game, but when you draw both it will be that much better.
Have you considered Countryside Crusher or Woolly Thoctar as a 2-of? That is, if you decided to drop the shushers from main. Crusher is great in that he makes sure you dont topdeck lands and stallout, which is pretty important in sligh. He also fuels Lavamancer, but thats just a side benefit.
The toughest match up I thought this deck has is game one against UGW thresh with CBT in it. After the board you still will have problems. I recomend running Rancor in the deck, makes it so much better in today's metagame with all the goyfs running around.
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Legacy:
NO RUG
Team America
U/W Stoneblade
Zoo
No FOW bant
Modern:
In testing
The toughest match up I thought this deck has is game one against UGW thresh with CBT in it. After the board you still will have problems. I recomend running Rancor in the deck, makes it so much better in today's metagame with all the goyfs running around.
see, i've been tossing rancor around and all, but am not sure if i can fit it in the new w splash version (bear with me, ive been AWOL i know but the spoiler-update is coming soon.) what do you get rid of for it?
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And all that the Lorax left here in this mess
was a small pile of rocks, with one word...
UNLESS.
Whatever that meant, well, I just couldn't guess.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
Introduction:
A long, long time ago, Wizards had decided that they were going to make a green creature that was worth talking about, a card that will strike fear into the hearts of the opponents. Their name for it? Tarmogoyf.
Ok, while its not that long ago, Tarmogoyf’s impact on Magic community has been monumental, warping a standard environment and allowing for green to be playable other than just survival of the fittest. Tarmogoyf allowed for a subtle green splash in an old archetype, Sligh, which was traditionally 20 Land, 20 Creatures, 20 Spells.
Sligh has limited effect on Legacy by itself, and BG (before Goyf) the only really splashable Green creatures were the Dryads (Both Quirion and Sophisticate were used on several occasions), then along came Goyf, and we got Decklists like:
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Taiga
8x Mountain
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Quirion Dryad
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Lava Dart
4x Rift Bolt
4x Seal of Fire
3x Lava Spike
4x Incinerate
3x Fireblast
3x Pyroclasm
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Krosan Grip
using close to if not exactly the 20/20/20 rule.
The exact makeup has been argued with this deck, the creature base in particular. You have the old timers (I guess im included in this) who run Quirion Dryad still as Goyf support, then you have the new kids on the block who run Figure of Destiny
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Magma Jet
4x Price of Progress
4x Rift Bolt
3x Fireblast
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Stomping Ground
2x Taiga
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstained Mire
8x Mountain
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Scald
2x Krosan Grip
And you also have the decks that run the vanilla Kird Ape/ Wild Nactal as support, like
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Mountain
1x Forest
4x Taiga
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Plateau
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Magma Jet
3x Price of Progress
4x Rift Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Vexing Shusher
4x Gaddock Teeg
4x Krosan Grip
I myself prefer the Dryad variant, as a dryad can be very pivotal in the life race, and with cards like Lightning Bolt in this deck the card can really grow fast enough to rival a goyf.
Some cardinal rules of running Goyf Sligh are
“-It’s better to start off with a creature rather than burn, except when your opponent’s on the play and casts a Lackey. More on this later.
-Maximize your mana. Take advantage of the fact that the deck’s curve is pretty low.
-Don’t be afraid to block! Yes, this is an aggro deck, but when you’re forced to block (which is usually in the late game), don’t panic. You have burn for reach anyway.
-Aiming your 3 damage spells at X/1’s if you have to clear the way is not wastage. Especially not when you absolutely have to kill the creature (Confidant, Mother of Runes, etc.)
-Sacrificing lands for Fireblast in response to LD is sometimes the better play, even when it leaves you with one land. Better than nothing, plus it feeds your Lavamancer.”
Quoted from the source
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5166
All in all, Goyf sligh is a deck that is generally used as either an intro to legacy or a way to touch up on your skills because it doesn’t require to much thought as compared to say, a Combo deck.
The current problem and cause for lack of Goyf-Sligh in the current meta, aside from it being a bread-and-butter aggro deck is the entrance of Zoo in the meta, with cards like Wild Nacatl Which is bigger than our stuff, like Goblin Guide.
My current deck:
7x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Snow-Covered Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Taiga
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Goblin Guide
4x Quirion Dryad
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Grim Lavamancer
2x Rift Bolt
3x Fireblast
4x Magma Jet
4x Lava Dart
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Pithing Needle
3x Krosan Grip
Bread and butter:
4 Goblin Guide: Replaced Mogg Fanatic after the M10 rules change, this was needed. can start putting pressure early enough that he can really be a force, and the drawback is minimal against most decks.
4 Tarmogoyf: requires no explanation, what made this deck what it is. Its just dumb power
4 Grim Lavamancer: people have started to lean away recently, but I still think this card is unfathomably needed, and never can stand to cut it for to long
4 Lightning Bolt: 3 damage? Sure. 1 Mana? Definitely! Instant Speed? *Drooling*
4 Chain Lightning: virtually the same thing but with sorcery speed
2-4 Fireblast: Hawtsauce in a can, this card can win you games, use wastelanded Taiga’s spot pump a dryad, its just to good to pass up
2-4 Price of Progress: punishes control decks fro, well, being control. Can really cripple opposing decks, causing upwards of 8-10 damage.
Other Card Choices:
Rancor: This card is not really optimal in a straight forward 20/20/20 build, but can be pretty deadly in a heavy creature deck
Mogg Fanatic: Once an auto include for his combat tricks and general nastiness, the little niche creature doesn't see too much play anymore because he can't be abused as much. shows how much a wizards rule change can affect everyone
Reckless Charge: The same situation as Rancor, don't use unless you expect a mjority of your damage to come through creatures
Pyrite Spellsbomb: If the meta your in runs lots of Protection from white (i.e. Silver Knight) this card can be a house, as a Knight wearing a Jitte is basically game over for you
Tarfire: Good for it's tribal giving a little goyf boost but thats about it. in a format that lets you get away with Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, tar is pretty underwhelming
Brute Force: Really unneeded, there are lists that do run it for the, again, added creature boost and can do ok in a Dryad build, but I have never really apreciated the card
Seal of Fire: I will sometimes catch myself looking at this as a one-of, but the card doesn't really earn a spot because of all the 1-for-3's in the format, and it is generally only used to get the extra +1 for Goofy's
Lava Dart: This is one of those CArds that i'm still torn on because of it's Versatility with the dryad, plus it can rock the world of goblin's with it's 2nd chance opportunity
Shard Volley: Not really used to often because of Fireblast, but hey, 3-for-1 is hard to ignore
Umezawa's Jitte: I believe the card is to mana heavy, and if you are playing this, 75% of the time its to remove you're opponents Jitte
Chain of Plasma: If you're looking for a 2cc 3 damage spell, run incenerate
Shock: Really? if you're going to deal with jank, run Tarfire...
Reckless Abandon: This card seems good on paper, and I haven't tested enough to know really how good it is, but in current testing i'm not such a fan
Blood Knight: Good against a WW heavy meta or just a creature heavy meta, as it can do some pretty nice tricks with its first strike coupled with burn
Cursed Scroll: To mana intensive in my opinion, but if you want to run it, go for it
Matchups:
ANT: Heavily Unfavorable
You better pray you can get enough damage in to upset their Ad Nauseum chain, another bit of wistful thinking is that you may be able to pull a fireblast to ruin their day pre-tendrils
Sideboard: not much you have, if you expect to see this, run Pyrostatic Pillar
43Land.dec: Slightly Un-Favorable
Sometimes you can just prove to fast for them, and price of progress is a must when facing them. Resolving a Grim Lavamancer is pretty key in the matchup, as he can generally be ridden for the win in most circumstances.
Sideboard: if you expect to see this, pack along your Tsabo’s Web, and your other Price of Progress’s
Landstill: Slightly Un-Favorable
Speed isn the 100% must do here, you should worry yourself more with sticking threats (i.e. Goyf, Lavamancer, Dryad)
Sideboard: Include your Red Elemental Blast’s and/or your Pyroblasts here, and bring in your extra Price of Progress’s because landing 16 damage for 2 mana ain’t so bad
Aggro Loam: Slightly Favorable
Don’t be afraid to mulligan against them, you need to have 2 lands online by turn 2 if you are going to expect to beat them. Other than that, if you ride your goyfs the race with the burn can really go a long way.
Sideboard: Pithing Needle is a must, and you might want to bring in those Krosan grips if you think you have to cut through some chalices/Assaults, though I have never found the room
Goblins: Even
Its aggro vs. aggro, basically whomever can get a faster start will win the game. It’s a pretty even matchup, and all your bur can really help keep the board clean, just watch out for when they’re able to string 4 ringleaders in a row (am I the only one that that happens to?)
Sideboard: Pyrokenesis if you want to try a more controly approach (the game can get ridiculous if you can land 1 or 2 of these sweepers along with a lavamancer), and Price of Progress can come in if they run multiple colors
Affinity: Favorable
I’ve never had a difficult time against this deck, even when it was in standard, and what I have found when using this deck is your spot removal (especially Grim Lavamancer) can wreck there day. Price of Progress is an allstar, seeing as they run little to no basics.
Sideboard: if you are afraid of Affinity, you might want to pack some Shattering Sprees, but if you run the catch-all sideboard I presented, Krosan grip can rock their socks, along with additional Price of Progress’s and Pithing needle
Burn: Slightly Favorable
Burn has always seemed to me like Sligh’s slightly uglier younger brother. With your creatures and straight burn as long as you don’t draw straight land, you should be pretty ahead of them, but like any aggro vs aggro deck, its off to the races from turn 1.
Sideboard: there really isn’t much to sideboard in/out versus this deck, as it performs very well pre-board, but if you really are hurtin’ for something, all I can think of is running some Dragon Claw
Ichorid: Even leaning on slightly unfavorable
You have your mogg fanatics to get rid of their bridge from belows, and Grim Lavamancer can really be a homerun hitter here to (constant zombie/ichorid removal or can even catch himself to nuke a bridge), even Keldon Marauders can put a clock on their bridge, you’re really going to be looking for your burn to take you the whole 9 yards though.
Sideboard: Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progentius are really the two best options if you are expecting some dredge, but scrabbling claw can also do the job if you need it to. I would advise ditching your PoPs postboard seeing as they don’t do much
Sui-Black: Favorable
This deck is pretty managable, seeing as they GIVE you free shocks with how much damage they do to themselves. if you hit a Goyf, thats ggenerally good game because they don't have anything bigger unless they're packing along their Tombstalkers. Look to your Burn here to round this game up.
Sideboard: There's not much you can sideboard here b, but you could always pull in some copies of Pyrostatic Pillar if you wanted
Fish-Fish: Slightly Favorable
With plenty of burn to make sure they stay lordless, this i sa pretty straight forward matchup. since most of your burn is going to be making sure that there utility creatures don't stay on the board, your going to need to getr alot of mileage out of Goyf/Dryad/Marauders/Figure/Ape. this deck can bee fairly easy to play against after yyou play against it enough, just remember, unless your sitting on a Lavamancer or multiple Goyfs, NEVER hesitate to smash a standstill.
Sideboard: REB's are golden here, while i generally cut my PoP's and Rift Bolt's (my Burn is generally focused towards Lord killing), you can always run Pyrokeneisis in your SB to help take the edge off to
here, i understand you might not be able to buy
Goyfs, but if you want help on what to replace him with
I recommend you go to the developing competitive
forums so that they may find you
"The next best thing"
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5166
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
Here's my list for reference:
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
7 Mountain
1 Forest
Creatures
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Keldon Marauders
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
2 Rift Bolt
4 Krosan Grip
4 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
1 Gaea's Blessing
Comments about my list are also appreciated. Thanks.
Sure, no problem. I couldn't update it though, since I've since shifted to other decks - but like I said, the principles and strategies are still the same. The creatures just got better.
well th sideboarding all depends on the deck you're playing. for instance, if you're playing Merfolk, you can SB out the PoP's for REB's because you won't get as much gas out of the Price of Progress's. if you're playing something like Aggro Loam where yuo don't expect to have much mana, you can side out the figures for Shattering Spree or Grip to catch their Chalice.
As for your list, it looks pretty much clear cut, the only thing i would advise is to cut either the Grips or Sprees (i prefer Grips), because there really is no reason to pack 7 forms of artifact hate unless your meta IS Affinity.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
Regarding the SB question, are there any cards that I should never SB out?
well thats a tough question, and the only one that i can think of that should NEVER be sided out is probably just Lightning Bolt and Tarmogoyf, just because they are spectacular and kind of allow this deck to be competitive. there are various circumstances where everything can/should be boarded out (I guess Goyf if they pack enough MD GY hate that you can't get him past a 2/3 reliably) that its a tough call. really the only thing i would never board out is my 1 - for - 3's even if they run Chalice, because i can always grip it.
because i haven't had ample testing against them. i'll be running this againsyt Dreadstil next week, and an epic elf survival, but the MWS meta is so unreliable that i can't say i've played them enough. I'll put the Merf up shortly though, i think i've played them enough
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
have you considered asking people from this forum for assistance in testing the deck? Cause I am pretty sure alot of us are familiar with at least one other deck in the format that we would be able to help you test against...
that would be super cool, but i've got a really hectic schedule right now, and am trying to get as much playing time as i can with the deck. i will start sending out PMs to see who all wants to test.
Also, does anyone have any comments about this deck? i would really love some more outside input
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Quirion Dryad
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path To Exile
2 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Mountain
The Manabase is aweful, but the core is interesting.
i have not figuring it was a more zoo like build but i guess i can try.
does anyone still run the traditional Dryad build? i ahve been playing it to much success recently
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
What I can see is that I need an answer to a resolved Phyrexian Dreadnough, but I don't need it maindeck. I liked to Respond to my own PtP with Fireblast saccing my nonbasics, and winning the game instead of causing a draw when my opponent was at... 11, and I was at 2.
Solidarity is too slow, but that's a given. I guess it remained a wicked fun combo deck but it just has a hard time against both counterbalance strategies and a fast-paced aggro deck.
Canadian thresh is probably the better deck of the 3, but I managed to win cause this deck dosen't play counter-top and it's hurt bad by a resolved Price to Progress.
Pox was unwinnable. Totally unwinnable. I dunno if it's me.
So I came to realise that Path to Exile is not definitively maindeck material, I really like the idea that Sword's to Plowshare's effect might be used uncounterproductively with burn spells, but it's not good all the time in a sligh deck.
I borrowed the tech from the poster above about Vexing Shusher. It makes or break the game. If they let it stay in play, it bends the game. If they remove it, they're not removing tarmogoyf.
Quirion Dryad is not good enough in the late game. I have absolutely zero cards in hand, a taiga and a plateau in play, my opponent is at 2 and I draw
a) Quirion Dryad, or a land
b) Anything Else
If the answer is b, I win this turn or next turn
If the answer is a, I just might not make it there.
The same was true when a) was Path to Exile, and that's why I cut it from the maindeck.
Price of Progress is sick, but it's dead in some matches, so 3 appears to me as the right number since I opted for a 3-3-3-3-3 sideboard with artifact hate, fatties hate, combo hate, edge in the aggro matchup and generic blue hate.
The new decklist is the following:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vexing Shusher
21 Spells
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
2 Seal of Fire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
5 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Seal of Primordium
3 Path to Exile
First my 9 Land Stompy Deck List:
9 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
Animals
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Kavu Predator
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Giant Growth
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Berserk
For a sideboard I was thinking
4 Kird Ape
2 Mog Fanatic
3 Lightning Bolt
2 ????
what do you say am i on the right track? can it even be done?
Secondly, you aren't running goyf. Trying to make this into goyf sligh sans goyfs is counter-intuitive.
Thirdly, you aren't going to be able to get the level of burn spells in your deck unless you mostly dedicate your board to burn. While no one would probably board in red elemental blasts against you, you're still going to be _very_ succeptable to chalice and unable to deal with it.
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
Solidarity too slow? How good was the player? You run no disruption, this matchup is a cake walk to Solidarity.
Dont play 2 seal, play 1/1 seal/tarfire. Why? because theres no reason not to, usually you'll only draw 1 (or niether) a game, but when you draw both it will be that much better.
Have you considered Countryside Crusher or Woolly Thoctar as a 2-of? That is, if you decided to drop the shushers from main. Crusher is great in that he makes sure you dont topdeck lands and stallout, which is pretty important in sligh. He also fuels Lavamancer, but thats just a side benefit.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
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Modern:
In testing
see, i've been tossing rancor around and all, but am not sure if i can fit it in the new w splash version (bear with me, ive been AWOL i know but the spoiler-update is coming soon.) what do you get rid of for it?
thanks to The Highlight Studios for the amazing avatar
For reference:
Qasali Pridemage :symg::symw:
Exalted
:1mana:, Sacrifice Qasali Pridemage: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
2/2
Currently Playing
WUBG Ravanger Affinity
WWWTheMightyQuinn
yes, it will be an awesome card for this deck. im gonna MD 2
question: do you guys always play 4 magma jets? i was thinking either 3 or 4, but im not sure.