The thing about Vampire Nighthawk and Mirran Crusader (both cards I like btw) is that they are counter-productive for this deck. They cost too much for us to reliably Vial in, and there's no control factor to them. There is a thin line between Hate Crimes and BW Death and Taxes, and that line is what kind of creatures they each play. Hate Crimes wants to control the game and keep Vials at 2, whereas D&T wants to play aggroish with a Machine Gun and keep Vials at 3. If I had to pick which of the two to run, it would be Crusader. My question is, what are you taking out to fit these guys in?
Well, my first thought about Crusader involved running a couple in the board, mostly to bring in against BUG/etc. as fairly proactive beaters.
But the more I think about it, the more I want to try it main, in place of Serra Avenger (which, while good, is still a bit underwhelming at times). Obviously there are some trade-offs involved in that, but I think the way the meta's going they're worth making. Immunity to black removal and ability to not only chump but outright kill a Goyf without a sword, plus the faster clock and the synergy of double strike with the equipment package, seems to me to be worth the loss of flying/vigilance and the extra mana (and as noted, I'm not as worried about having to Vial in a Crusader -- most decks can only counter it with a Force of Will, and if they want to waste a Force on that I'm OK with it).
If you want to play more control-ish, what about mesmeric fiend as Tidehollow 4-8. Granted it is weaker. Also, does Hymn to Tourach have a spot here?
Tim and I have discussed Mesmeric Fiend a few times actually. We both agree that if he had 2 Power, or only costed B, he'd be in easily. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case. While the effect is extremely nice and highly playable, it's not worth the two mana for a 1/1.
Hymn to Tourach is a personal favortie card of mine. It's powerful, extremely one-sided, and the perfect card for control. Unfortunately, we don't have the manabase to support BB on turn 2 when Hymn is most effective. We also don't have a lot of room for non-creatures. Running Aether Vial puts a demand on our list for a certain threshold of creature cards. What that number is, is slightly debatable, but the short of it is that we need as many as we can feasibly run.
EDIT: I'm not trying to sound like that guy. The guy who created (or co-created) a deck, and thinks the only way to run it is with my list. I'm merely giving my opinions. I really like discussion, and welcome any and all testing or solid theory as to why cards should be included. Even if you just want to know why a card is in or out please talk. Discussion is how we're going to make this awesome little deck better.
I've been thinking a lot about Mirran Crusader lately as well. With the current meta I don't think he's bad main but I still want access to Avengers against Folk. A 2/2 split with 2 Avengers in the board, not sure what I would replace, seems solid.
I think that Bitterblossom is probably even better than Crusader though. It's a win con on it's own and at it's worst it's a Forcefield.
If you want to play more control-ish, what about mesmeric fiend as Tidehollow 4-8. Granted it is weaker. Also, does Hymn to Tourach have a spot here?
Mesmeric Fiend sucks ass. That is all. Ok, that's not all, but it really does suck. It's only a 1/1 which means it can almost never profitably attack or block. I would play Seize/Inquisition/Duress and maybe even Hymn over him. Hymn is hard to support because you need BB and there's only 2 Swamps, which means you have no choice but to get Scrublands and open yourself to Wastelands. I'm honestly considering cutting Sculler, at least from the main. Not really sure about it though. I want to make it a little less artifact heavy because of the prevalence of Merfolk and Energy Flux.
Even though I'm somewhat new to this deck, I'd agree Hymn doesn't really fit. It's not just the mana requirement or the creature-count problem; Hymn is just too much of a blunt instrument of disruption, when what we want here is precision. If I were going to run discard spells, I'd be looking at Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy or IoK (pretty much in that order) long before Hymn. Plus, in B/W or B/W/x, Hymn tends to be much better in decks that run Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond; it's easier to hit BB that way, and occasionally you can power it out first turn and just tear their hand apart.
Anyway, here's the list I'm going to playtest a bit over the weekend:
There's Mirran Crusader, of course, which I just want to try out to see if it's really as good as it seems, but also the two Relic-Warders. I think that's the right number; often enough there'll be a good target, and tempo-wise it's a much stronger play than O-Ring or Vindicate. Of course that means leaning a bit more heavily on the equipment package to close out games, so I've also added one extra Mystic.
Sideboard's in rather a lot of flux at the moment, but once I get a stable plan together for it I'll post it.
Relic Warder is something I've been considering again with all the nasty artifacts and enchantments running around. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anything to cut for him, or keep finding other things I'd rather play.
I forgot to mention that I've changed the singleton Karakas to Volrath's Stronghold and like it a lot. Yes you can't find it, but it's rarely bad to have around. It's not necessary to win so the singleton works fine.
I've thought about adding a Batterskull, and it's certainly an amazing card, but ultimately I just don't feel comfortable with it. Mostly it's the mana/equip cost, I think: all the other equipment is stuff we can actually hardcast and move around as needed, while Batterskull is just a bit too pricey for the situations where you have to do that.
If you ran 4 SFM then Batterskull might be ok. With only three I think you're going to find it dead and extremely aggravating the majority of the time. You're also never going to equip to a dude and it hits you for 5 on a Bob reveal. I don't like it but I hope it does well for you.
Mirran Crusader is the stone-cold nuts against BUG/Team America/etc., and not as much of a downgrade (compared to Serra Avenger) vs. Fish as I'd thought it would be. It also has the benefit of swinging for four while also untapping under Meekstone, which is handy at times.
Relic-Warder wasn't a dead card as often as people seemed to expect earlier in the thread when it was mentioned. I'm still only running it as a two-of, but really, this is Legacy: there's almost always going to be something you want to hit.
I'm probably going to cut the Top and go back up to 4x Vial. In theory Top is nice to have, but in practice it's mostly just a way to bait out Misstep so you can resolve something you actually want. So might as well just get to full redundancy on the useful cards.
And this may just be me personally, but I'm still preferring Sword of Body and Mind in the final equipment slot; Feast and Famine's protection is redundant with Crusader and its abilities have less impact in a deck that abuses Vial the way this one does, and Batterskull is still just too expensive to run reliably.
As a note, I played against Tim in the Invitational and he has updated the list (and I believe he said he's cut Vial entirely). It's certainly a different direction with the deck and I'd love to see a list.
I'm pretty confident what he was running was favored against Merfolk, but the Fish love me, so I took it 2-1. But BW strategies seem to be a solid choice against Merfolk, which is one of the few decks you can expect to play against in any given tournament.
simple question until i can afford to get vindicates what would be a good replacement for this card? im thinking disenchant as it hits most things i would want to hit with it but i would like some opinions or other options
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simple question until i can afford to get vindicates what would be a good replacement for this card? im thinking disenchant as it hits most things i would want to hit with it but i would like some opinions or other options
Oblivion Ring. When I was playing E Tutor main I played one O Ring as tutorable removal.
ok so round 1
vs random GR Seismic assault
i put out creatures she starts burning them with barrel down cause her to constantly be behind on lands. i finally get in enough dmg to win.
games 2 no sideboard from me im able to land a mirran crusader equip a sword and bash for game.
round2
vs affinity
i get slaughtered game 1 nothing to really say. i sideboard in null rod and katakis. he has a slow hand and play 2 artifacts then signal pest, i path the pest and he cant get anything. i play kataki turn 2 and he basically scoops due to lack of mana.
game 3 he goes decently quick but i tutor for a null rod and drop it on 2. then turn 3 i drop a kataki he scoops.
round 3
vs monolith combo
his deck revolves around basalt monolith and mesmeric orb
game 1 im able to inquisition his hand to see what he is playing and eventually land a revoker on monolith. i eventually get the dmg in to win.
game 2 my opening hand is 3 revokers 2 land and a couple other useless stuff. needless to say im able to stick the revokers and its gg.
top4
vs ANT
game 1 he doesnt draw well i kill him
game 2 he goes off on 1
game 3 play a crypt and a land, he duresses me i tutor in response grabbing a null rod. play the rod this locks up the game for a bit. i draw a canonist and play that on 4. he ad nauseum going down to 7. he chain vapors my canonist and trys to go off but the rod stops most of his mana and i edge it out.
top 2
vs monolith combo
we split even though i think i have a good match against this
i will say the monolith combo deck is really good and can go off on 2 but i just had the right answers at the right time. i also dont really know if the vindicates are even necessary for this deck, as the extra discard actually helped alot.
Not sure how I feel about running without Vindicate. Granted, it's not that great against most combo decks, so I'd probably be siding them out in those matchups to bring in targeted hate.
Any specific reason why you went with Inquisition over Thoughtseize? I'd think the two life isn't going to hurt so much in return for being able to hit basically anything...
ok so round 1
vs random GR Seismic assault
i put out creatures she starts burning them with barrel down cause her to constantly be behind on lands. i finally get in enough dmg to win.
games 2 no sideboard from me im able to land a mirran crusader equip a sword and bash for game.
round2
vs affinity
i get slaughtered game 1 nothing to really say. i sideboard in null rod and katakis. he has a slow hand and play 2 artifacts then signal pest, i path the pest and he cant get anything. i play kataki turn 2 and he basically scoops due to lack of mana.
game 3 he goes decently quick but i tutor for a null rod and drop it on 2. then turn 3 i drop a kataki he scoops.
round 3
vs monolith combo
his deck revolves around basalt monolith and mesmeric orb
game 1 im able to inquisition his hand to see what he is playing and eventually land a revoker on monolith. i eventually get the dmg in to win.
game 2 my opening hand is 3 revokers 2 land and a couple other useless stuff. needless to say im able to stick the revokers and its gg.
top4
vs ANT
game 1 he doesnt draw well i kill him
game 2 he goes off on 1
game 3 play a crypt and a land, he duresses me i tutor in response grabbing a null rod. play the rod this locks up the game for a bit. i draw a canonist and play that on 4. he ad nauseum going down to 7. he chain vapors my canonist and trys to go off but the rod stops most of his mana and i edge it out.
top 2
vs monolith combo
we split even though i think i have a good match against this
i will say the monolith combo deck is really good and can go off on 2 but i just had the right answers at the right time. i also dont really know if the vindicates are even necessary for this deck, as the extra discard actually helped alot.
Thanks for the report! Glad to hear others enjoy this deck. I don't know that I will ever run without targeted removal on top of StP. Speaking of, was PtE a budget choice or a strategic one?
i also dont really know if the vindicates are even necessary for this deck, as the extra discard actually helped alot.
Grats on the finish and thanks for the report.
Vindicates are amazing and are vital to the deck against pretty much any non-combo deck, where they almost always come out. I can't tell you how many times Vindicate has saved my ass from a Vedalken Shackles/Threads of Disloyalty/Jace etc. It deserves to be at least a 3x.
So unfortunately there's not really anyone in my area who's running Legacy events, so mostly it's just me and the half-dozen other folks who care about the format playtesting , mostly to get practice in for them for SCG events. I go to those, but always end up judging -- maybe one of these days I'll get to play, though
Some thoughts on changes I'll likely be trying out over the next couple of weeks:
Relic-Warder was very good to me for a while, but now just seems to underperform. I may keep it a while longer, or just go back to Serra Avenger (both have advantages against Merfolk; Avenger flies, of course, but Relic-Warder eats their Vials). Biggest blowout I've found so far is Relic-Warder on U/W's Shackles.
My sideboard's evolved to become more strongly anti-combo; the Thoughtseizes are always nice to have (and come in over Vindicate, of course), and I haven't had enough trouble with aggro to need things like the extra Ghostly Prison over other options (Null Rod just straight shuts down Affinity, and Meekstone keeps Knights and Goyfs at bay). I am keeping that singleton Runed Halo in, though, because it's just so good.
Some matchup notes:
I've played a lot of games now against High Tide, and found that while it's rough game 1, it's almost an unlosable matchup post-board. The graveyard and generic combo hate is just way too strong for them, so long as you keep a decent hand. Dredge is similar, but of course you have to disrupt a lot faster.
Decks trying to cheat huge things into play were giving me some trouble until I learned how to play against them properly. For the Natural Order variants, I almost always bring in and tutor for Runed Halo as quickly as possible, naming Progenitus (and also trying to get a Revoker on Pridemage to make them work to deal with it). Show and Tell is a bit trickier; whenever possible I try to hold a Vial open and a Sculler in hand to respond to it and take the fatty. Failing that, aggressive wasting of their two-mana lands and bringing in the Thoughtseizes is generally good (though I could see tossing an O-Ring or two in the board to shore this up).
The first few games I played against Painter's Servant/Grindstone I was surprised by how little I needed to board. All the maindeck hate -- especially the Revokers and Relic-Warders -- just shines in this matchup. Post-board I basically only bring in the Null Rod and the Runed Halo (siding out the swords -- they're just useless against Painter).
Junk has been a surprisingly good matchup so long as they don't get the crazy-go-nuts hand that Hymns you twice by turn two. Mirran Crusader really shines here, as does the Meekstone in the board.
All the BUG variants are a whole lot easier to deal with when I have the Crusaders in. The biggest fight is always over Vial, and a lot of times I'll try to bait Misstep by casting Mom or Enlightened Tutor turn 1, into second-turn Vial with extra mana in case of Daze.
U/W is similarly straightforward, and the trickiest part is reading whether they're on Wrath or Shackles. Otherwise, Revoker naming Jace usually wins, as does Vial if they're on the Standstill plan.
Nobody around here has a decent Zoo build, so I'm missing testing against that; given its performance at the SCG invitational, I want to get some matches in and see how it goes.
All the BUG variants are a whole lot easier to deal with when I have the Crusaders in. The biggest fight is always over Vial, and a lot of times I'll try to bait Misstep by casting Mom or Enlightened Tutor turn 1, into second-turn Vial with extra mana in case of Daze.
U/W is similarly straightforward, and the trickiest part is reading whether they're on Wrath or Shackles. Otherwise, Revoker naming Jace usually wins, as does Vial if they're on the Standstill plan.
Nobody around here has a decent Zoo build, so I'm missing testing against that; given its performance at the SCG invitational, I want to get some matches in and see how it goes.
I think it's funny that you try to bait the counter with Mom or E Tutor. I usually did the opposite, especially against fish, and tried to bait the counter with the Vial so I could land a Mom. If they didn't counter it I still got to cheat mom in.
Crusader sounds like it's good in your meta. Overall I like Bitterblossom much better though, which makes Vial less good.
I try to bait the counter against BUG and against the dedicated control decks, since against them landing a Vial is often the strongest play I can make.
Merfolk's a whole 'nother strategy, and one where I'm actually glad I have the Relic-Warders (since I can eat their Vials instead of having to Revoker the Vial and not be able to use my own).
Bitterblossom is a card I just haven't had a chance to try yet. I can see it helping a lot with the more controlling decks, especially with U/W now running Wraths, but I'm not sure what I want to cut to make room for a couple.
Edit: and as luck would have it there were a couple Blossoms in the judge packet for GP KC, so I don't have to go pick them up
I think I'll give them a try over Crusader and see how it goes.
Hey guys, I've been playing with the list in the OP and doing really well against mostly anything. I did lose a really tight game to a similar deck that was also running Batterskull and Bitterblossom (which he dropped at the beginning of the game; we both went to about 3 life but in the end he had just enough presence to win). I'm thinking about doing this:
-1 Karakas, -1 Vial, +1 Batterskull, +1 Vault of Whispers
A lot of the time I'm short a land (I only have W) and am holding an Enlightened Tutor, even more post-board (when I have 4 tutor main). An EOT tutor for vault would let me drop Sculler, Revoker or SFM on my next turn and probably would save me a few games. Batterskull is too powerful to pass up, play against it if you don't agree. It's a threat your opponents absolutely MUST deal with, it's tutorable, and it's cheap. Forcing them to find ways to remove your threats is easily as disruptive as taking one of their cards or blanking their Tops or Monoliths (this deck rapes Hive Mind). Gonna cut a Vial because I do fine the games I don't get it, it gets a ton of hate from Mental Misstep (which nothing else receives so far) and I frequently bring Null Rodds in from the side.
Not too sure about the recent discussion involving Crusader and Aven Mindcensor; I really like all the 2-drops.
Finally, I really love the creature core - Revoker, SFM, Bob & Sculler are beasts. Mother of Runes has won me a game, but I don't know if she's entirely necessary - with a little tweaking we can easily include 4x Chalice main, although I don't know how necessary that is.
EDIT -- I forgot to mention, the Leonin Arbiter idea sounds really strong, although obviously it doesn't work with SFM, Tutor, etc. It'd be most powerful on the play, I think (faster Vials in), so if I wasn't running Enlightened Tutor (and its accompanying toolbox SB) I'd try them in the SB.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
But the more I think about it, the more I want to try it main, in place of Serra Avenger (which, while good, is still a bit underwhelming at times). Obviously there are some trade-offs involved in that, but I think the way the meta's going they're worth making. Immunity to black removal and ability to not only chump but outright kill a Goyf without a sword, plus the faster clock and the synergy of double strike with the equipment package, seems to me to be worth the loss of flying/vigilance and the extra mana (and as noted, I'm not as worried about having to Vial in a Crusader -- most decks can only counter it with a Force of Will, and if they want to waste a Force on that I'm OK with it).
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Take a mechanic from the pre-mirrodin era, and a mechanic after the mirrodin era, and create a card that flavorfully melds both mechanics.
Tim and I have discussed Mesmeric Fiend a few times actually. We both agree that if he had 2 Power, or only costed B, he'd be in easily. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case. While the effect is extremely nice and highly playable, it's not worth the two mana for a 1/1.
Hymn to Tourach is a personal favortie card of mine. It's powerful, extremely one-sided, and the perfect card for control. Unfortunately, we don't have the manabase to support BB on turn 2 when Hymn is most effective. We also don't have a lot of room for non-creatures. Running Aether Vial puts a demand on our list for a certain threshold of creature cards. What that number is, is slightly debatable, but the short of it is that we need as many as we can feasibly run.
EDIT: I'm not trying to sound like that guy. The guy who created (or co-created) a deck, and thinks the only way to run it is with my list. I'm merely giving my opinions. I really like discussion, and welcome any and all testing or solid theory as to why cards should be included. Even if you just want to know why a card is in or out please talk. Discussion is how we're going to make this awesome little deck better.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I think that Bitterblossom is probably even better than Crusader though. It's a win con on it's own and at it's worst it's a Forcefield.
Mesmeric Fiend sucks ass. That is all. Ok, that's not all, but it really does suck. It's only a 1/1 which means it can almost never profitably attack or block. I would play Seize/Inquisition/Duress and maybe even Hymn over him. Hymn is hard to support because you need BB and there's only 2 Swamps, which means you have no choice but to get Scrublands and open yourself to Wastelands. I'm honestly considering cutting Sculler, at least from the main. Not really sure about it though. I want to make it a little less artifact heavy because of the prevalence of Merfolk and Energy Flux.
Anyway, here's the list I'm going to playtest a bit over the weekend:
3 Æther Vial
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries
3 Vindicate
Land
5 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
There's Mirran Crusader, of course, which I just want to try out to see if it's really as good as it seems, but also the two Relic-Warders. I think that's the right number; often enough there'll be a good target, and tempo-wise it's a much stronger play than O-Ring or Vindicate. Of course that means leaning a bit more heavily on the equipment package to close out games, so I've also added one extra Mystic.
Sideboard's in rather a lot of flux at the moment, but once I get a stable plan together for it I'll post it.
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
I forgot to mention that I've changed the singleton Karakas to Volrath's Stronghold and like it a lot. Yes you can't find it, but it's rarely bad to have around. It's not necessary to win so the singleton works fine.
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Mirran Crusader is the stone-cold nuts against BUG/Team America/etc., and not as much of a downgrade (compared to Serra Avenger) vs. Fish as I'd thought it would be. It also has the benefit of swinging for four while also untapping under Meekstone, which is handy at times.
Relic-Warder wasn't a dead card as often as people seemed to expect earlier in the thread when it was mentioned. I'm still only running it as a two-of, but really, this is Legacy: there's almost always going to be something you want to hit.
I'm probably going to cut the Top and go back up to 4x Vial. In theory Top is nice to have, but in practice it's mostly just a way to bait out Misstep so you can resolve something you actually want. So might as well just get to full redundancy on the useful cards.
And this may just be me personally, but I'm still preferring Sword of Body and Mind in the final equipment slot; Feast and Famine's protection is redundant with Crusader and its abilities have less impact in a deck that abuses Vial the way this one does, and Batterskull is still just too expensive to run reliably.
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
I'm pretty confident what he was running was favored against Merfolk, but the Fish love me, so I took it 2-1. But BW strategies seem to be a solid choice against Merfolk, which is one of the few decks you can expect to play against in any given tournament.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Serra Avenger
3 Bitterblossom
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Runed Halo
1 Null Rod
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meekstone
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Body and Mind
I decided to forgo Vials, Moms, and Scullers for Bitterblossom, which is the nuts and I will continue play, Mirran Crusader and real discard.
Thoughtseize does too much damage when combined with everything else and the split between it and Inquisition are going to get flip flopped.
Mirran Crusader was super awesome when he stayed alive and was was equipped. Serra Avenger is better now that everyone is playing SFM as well.
Batterskull is the real deal. 4 SFM is the way to go.
Chrome Moxen may have been handy but I really don't like the idea of losing business cards to it because everything is soo good.
Corbin it was a pleasure meeting you and hopefully our paths will cross again before too terribly long.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
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Oblivion Ring. When I was playing E Tutor main I played one O Ring as tutorable removal.
3 mishra's factory
4 scrubland
4 marsh flats
5 plains
4 swamp
creatures
4 phyrexian revoker
4 tidehollow sculler
4 dark confidant
4 serra avenger
3 mirran crusader
3 stoneforge mystic
2 mother of runes
4 aether vile
4 path to exile
3 inquisition of kozilek
2 enlightened tutor
1 sword of body and mind
1 sword of fire and ice
1 umezawa's jitte
3 kataki, war's wage
3 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
1 null rod
1 tormod's crypt
1 oblivion ring
2 ethersworn canonist
1 engineered explosives
1 ghostly prison
ok so round 1
vs random GR Seismic assault
i put out creatures she starts burning them with barrel down cause her to constantly be behind on lands. i finally get in enough dmg to win.
games 2 no sideboard from me im able to land a mirran crusader equip a sword and bash for game.
round2
vs affinity
i get slaughtered game 1 nothing to really say. i sideboard in null rod and katakis. he has a slow hand and play 2 artifacts then signal pest, i path the pest and he cant get anything. i play kataki turn 2 and he basically scoops due to lack of mana.
game 3 he goes decently quick but i tutor for a null rod and drop it on 2. then turn 3 i drop a kataki he scoops.
round 3
vs monolith combo
his deck revolves around basalt monolith and mesmeric orb
game 1 im able to inquisition his hand to see what he is playing and eventually land a revoker on monolith. i eventually get the dmg in to win.
game 2 my opening hand is 3 revokers 2 land and a couple other useless stuff. needless to say im able to stick the revokers and its gg.
top4
vs ANT
game 1 he doesnt draw well i kill him
game 2 he goes off on 1
game 3 play a crypt and a land, he duresses me i tutor in response grabbing a null rod. play the rod this locks up the game for a bit. i draw a canonist and play that on 4. he ad nauseum going down to 7. he chain vapors my canonist and trys to go off but the rod stops most of his mana and i edge it out.
top 2
vs monolith combo
we split even though i think i have a good match against this
i will say the monolith combo deck is really good and can go off on 2 but i just had the right answers at the right time. i also dont really know if the vindicates are even necessary for this deck, as the extra discard actually helped alot.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Any specific reason why you went with Inquisition over Thoughtseize? I'd think the two life isn't going to hurt so much in return for being able to hit basically anything...
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Thanks for the report! Glad to hear others enjoy this deck. I don't know that I will ever run without targeted removal on top of StP. Speaking of, was PtE a budget choice or a strategic one?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Grats on the finish and thanks for the report.
Vindicates are amazing and are vital to the deck against pretty much any non-combo deck, where they almost always come out. I can't tell you how many times Vindicate has saved my ass from a Vedalken Shackles/Threads of Disloyalty/Jace etc. It deserves to be at least a 3x.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
But based on that, here's where I am right now:
4 Æther Vial
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries
3 Vindicate
Lands
2 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Wasteland
4 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Meekstone
1 Null Rod
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Runed Halo
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Thoughtseize
1 Tormod's Crypt
Some thoughts on changes I'll likely be trying out over the next couple of weeks:
Relic-Warder was very good to me for a while, but now just seems to underperform. I may keep it a while longer, or just go back to Serra Avenger (both have advantages against Merfolk; Avenger flies, of course, but Relic-Warder eats their Vials). Biggest blowout I've found so far is Relic-Warder on U/W's Shackles.
My sideboard's evolved to become more strongly anti-combo; the Thoughtseizes are always nice to have (and come in over Vindicate, of course), and I haven't had enough trouble with aggro to need things like the extra Ghostly Prison over other options (Null Rod just straight shuts down Affinity, and Meekstone keeps Knights and Goyfs at bay). I am keeping that singleton Runed Halo in, though, because it's just so good.
Some matchup notes:
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Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Crusader sounds like it's good in your meta. Overall I like Bitterblossom much better though, which makes Vial less good.
Merfolk's a whole 'nother strategy, and one where I'm actually glad I have the Relic-Warders (since I can eat their Vials instead of having to Revoker the Vial and not be able to use my own).
Bitterblossom is a card I just haven't had a chance to try yet. I can see it helping a lot with the more controlling decks, especially with U/W now running Wraths, but I'm not sure what I want to cut to make room for a couple.
Edit: and as luck would have it there were a couple Blossoms in the judge packet for GP KC, so I don't have to go pick them up
I think I'll give them a try over Crusader and see how it goes.
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Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
-1 Karakas, -1 Vial, +1 Batterskull, +1 Vault of Whispers
A lot of the time I'm short a land (I only have W) and am holding an Enlightened Tutor, even more post-board (when I have 4 tutor main). An EOT tutor for vault would let me drop Sculler, Revoker or SFM on my next turn and probably would save me a few games. Batterskull is too powerful to pass up, play against it if you don't agree. It's a threat your opponents absolutely MUST deal with, it's tutorable, and it's cheap. Forcing them to find ways to remove your threats is easily as disruptive as taking one of their cards or blanking their Tops or Monoliths (this deck rapes Hive Mind). Gonna cut a Vial because I do fine the games I don't get it, it gets a ton of hate from Mental Misstep (which nothing else receives so far) and I frequently bring Null Rodds in from the side.
Not too sure about the recent discussion involving Crusader and Aven Mindcensor; I really like all the 2-drops.
Finally, I really love the creature core - Revoker, SFM, Bob & Sculler are beasts. Mother of Runes has won me a game, but I don't know if she's entirely necessary - with a little tweaking we can easily include 4x Chalice main, although I don't know how necessary that is.
EDIT -- I forgot to mention, the Leonin Arbiter idea sounds really strong, although obviously it doesn't work with SFM, Tutor, etc. It'd be most powerful on the play, I think (faster Vials in), so if I wasn't running Enlightened Tutor (and its accompanying toolbox SB) I'd try them in the SB.