I. Introduction
BUG Threshold (a.k.a. Dark Thresh), is a variant of the popular archtype Threshold. It comes in the form of various color combination with Blue as the main color of choice, and green as its secondary color. Well known variants of Threshold other than Dark Thresh, are decks like; UGR (e.g. Canadian Threshold), UGW (e.g. CounterTop Thresh, NO Thresh), BUG (Team America) and some 4color Thresh.
Perhaps the most successful and popular of the variants has been in the past Canadian Thresh. Utilizing the color red for cards like; Fire//Ice, Lightning Bolt and sideboard cards such as Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. This gives the deck some reach and good options for crowd-control.
What Dark Thresh lack in reach, it compensates by adding more card-drawing ability from Dark Confidant. It also gives the deck better removals to deal with larger creatures (e.g. Smother). Although Dark Thresh has been around in the Legacy meta for quite some time now, it has recently gained a lot of interests and attention due to its sideboard applications, especially Extirpate. These factors in combination with Thresholds already well known strenghts (Counter-magic, Wasteland + Stifle etc.) has proven to be a force to be reconed with in Legacy.
II. Building the Deck
These are often the cards one starts with in mind when building a Dark Thresh deck. Nimble Mongoose might not be mandatory but its part of the deck's namesake, so I included it in The Core. This little guy should not be underestimated though. The rest of the core cards are pretty self-explanatory, so no additional words needed here.
EDIT: March 07, 2011.
The deck still has its merits and force in Legacy. However the popularity and widespread of pilots makes Dark Thresh a rarity to find among the top 8 finishes. Its a very tight deck with little to no innovation from new cards or tech so far in 2011. The deck is also very meta-game dependent and my be one reason why people opt for other decks. Most recent trend is the addition of Phyrexian Dreadnought in either main deck or sideboard. Another recent inclusion is Go for the Throat, which is a solid Legacy removal.
Some examples of widely used, or, possible card choices to fill in the slots both MD or SB. It's just to give you some idea of what the possibilities are. Let me know if you miss some cards that should be included.
Creature: Lorescale Coatl - Not widely used, but it has its merrits due to the decent draw power this deck has. Phyrexian Dreadnought - I've seen this as a one, or two of in some builds. Interesting addition IMO. Phyrexian Negator - I haven't seen this one used in this type of deck for awhile, it can be a great choice considering all the counter magic we can back it up with. Putrid Leech - If you feel the need for another agressive 2-drop, or can't afford the Goyf. Quirion Dryad - Classic GROW creature. Another Goyf-replacement if budget is a concern. Sower of Temptation - Hasn't been a choice in recent lists, but can be a nice choice in some meta-games. Terravore - Decent 3-drop that is more than often larger than bold-range. Tombstalker - I would only play 2 copies of this guy, but we got a decent amount of library manipulation, so I wouldn't worry too much about BoB in combination with this one. Trygon Predator - Good SB and MD card, nice to have with your arsenal. Vendilion Clique - I've seen a couple of these show up in recent builds again, really good for combat tricks and surprises.
Instant: Blue Elemental Blast - If you don't like red. (See also Hydroblast) Chain of Vapor - Cheap bounce that takes out more than just creatures. Can deal with planewalkers and other pesky permanents. Diabolic Edict - Popular removal for a reason. Takes care of lots of problematic creatures, not as powerful vs. swarm-decks though. Disfigure - Solid removal that takes out a good chunk of Legay staple creatures. Divert - Seen some lists running this in their sideboard. Personally, I'm not that big of a fan, I'm sure it has its merrits. Extirpate - Mostly used in SBs, but it can be argued for a place in the MD in some meta-games. You at least need some of these within your 75+ card choices. Ghastly Demise - A type of "threshold" card, which happens to be a good removal. Can't take out black creatures though. Hurkyl's Recall - Sideboard tech if you're having issues with artifact-based decks. Krosan Grip - Graet card choice, especially vs. countertop decks. Nature's Claim - See above, only slightly worse in some cases and better in other. Putrefy - Good choice if you need some MD artifact tech. On the high-end of the curve though. Rushing River - An answer to most things, can save you from a pinch. Also on the high-end of the curve, but its blue. Smother - My removal of choice for this deck and current meta. It takes out 90+ % of the creatures you want to take. Snuff Out - Decent removal that gives a good tempo gain. It can be on the high-end of casting cost, both in terms of life-loss and mana. Spell Pierce - Solid counter spell. Either used in SB or MD in most builds. Spell Snare - See above, only slightly more useful currently IMO.
Sorcery: Deathmark - Decent cheap creature removal vs certain MUs. Duress - These can come in handy in some MUs, can also warrant MD slot depending on meta-game and player preference. Inquisition of Kozilek - See above (more versatile in meta with lots of aggro) Maelstrom Pulse - Like Putrefy above, only better. Preordain - Can come in instead of Ponder, or if you need more library manipulation. Thoughtseize - See similar spell-types above. Best of the 3, but comes with a painful life-loss.
Miscellaneous: Counterbalance - One could easily tweak this deck to incorporate the Counter/Top combination. Engineered Explosives - Popular MD or SB choice, obviously good vs. swarms, but its not very cost efficient in terms of mana. Solid nonetheless. Engineered Plague - Good vs. tribal-type decks like Merfolk and Goblins. Leyline of the Void - Useful graveyard tech. Mind Harness - Useful sideboard option, takes control over opposing Goyfs, KotR, Terravore etc. Null Rod - Another sideboard option to answer some annoying abilities from artifacts. Pernicious Deed - One of the best reset-buttons in the game. Pithing Needle - If you need to shut down some irritating abilities (equipments, SDT, Planeswalker etc.) this is your card. Relic of Progenitus - Solid graveyard tech. Sensei's Divining Top - More library manipulation. Sylvan Library - And, even more library manipulation. Threads of Disloyalty - Useful sideboard card in some occations, controls a significant nr of creatures in Legacy. Tormod's Crypt - Solid graveyard tech.
III. How to Play
I'm sure there are several ways to play this deck, but I'm going to make it short and simple and present my take on piloting this deck.
If you look at the core of the deck, you have a good deal of counter-magic (or instants in general), making it only natural to play a reactive game-plan. Your start 7 should always have some sort of permission card (or discard if you use them). You want to trade cards with your opponent and disrupt their tempo, from which you will gain an advantage on due to your many card-filtering (draw) cards. Like all Tempo Thresh decks, Wasteland & Stifle is your MVP cards. The latter of which can gain you so much tempo gain by fizzling fetch-lands that its almost absurd. Once you've manage to build enough resources to play threats (built up your graveyard for Goyf & Mongoose to be large) and provide them protection, you want to switch to a more aggressive play to take advantage of your opponent lagging behind in card options. This usually happens between turn 3-5. If they manage to reset or catch up on to you for some reason. Switch back to control mode and start again. Unless you see an opportunity to race, or push through your attack force. It's a very skill-intensive deck to pilot really, but it can also win you games out of nowhere. You want to use your Brainstorm and fetch-lands wisely, keeping your options open and be able to dig for answers in case of unexpected play from your opponent. In general terms, you want to play Dark Confidant as early as possible and try to keep him for at least 2 turns to get some net card advantage from him, any card you get to draw from him after that, is just a bonus. I wouldn't mind to trade him 1 for 1 with a creature after that.
IV. The Match-Ups
Match-up ratings are set from 1-10, where 1 = Unwinnable, and 10 = Walk in the Park (Note that these ratings are set according to my MU experience so far, so these might not be accurate to your experience. The ratings might also change after more testing on my part)
More to come.. (Need more community input here also)
Rating: Game one (6), Post board (6.5-7)
I find this MU quite in our favor both game one as well as post board. Game 1, we got more, or equal amount of counter magic, better removals and better card drawing. If we can manage to keep their creatures from swarming the board, its a highly winnable MU.
Game 2, we have access to more and better SB options than they do IMO. Bring in relevant counter measures and/or discard effects. Watch out for graveyard tech, and try to resolve Engineered Plague.
Game one, you need to focus your counter magic on his important stuff. You have far more counter magic than he has, you got Stifle and Wasteland for his mana-base and you have a better draw-engine in Bob. Once he manage to resolve a creature, the game is basically over.
This is a very unsure MU depending on your MD/Top deck and sideboard choices. You need to be able to counter his early lock pieces. Force him on top deck mode, and resolve an early beater as soon as possible. Bob or Goyf is the optimal one for this game. Waste his land that taps for 2 colorless when possible, and watch out for Armageddon.
Post board, you need to board whatever you got against artifacts and spell pierces, and look out for Suppression Field that can nullify your fetch-lands.
Here we need to focus on disrupting their mana-base. Zoo is very reliable and vulnerable on their mana-base. Having 6+ removals MD helps you abit as well. Once you go top-deck mode, Bob will help fill your hand faster than his. After that, protect your Goyf or just swing with no concerns with Mongoose.
Post board, the same strategy applies. Be on alert on whatever they bring in against you and try to keep hands with Stifle as they are heavy on using fetch-lands.
Sideboard Suggestion: Spell Pierce, creature removal and perhaps Pithing Needle (On their Jitte, Elspeth or Fetches.)
Rating: Game one (4.5), Post board (5.5)
Game one is winnable, but you need to get somewhat lucky with your draws. You can't counter all his threats, but if you can manage to get past the first wave of attack, that is the first storm of creatures dropping from your opponents hand into the battlefield, you should be able to establish control especially with Dark Confidant on the table.
Post board, you play the same game-plan. This time however, you better have pulled out some reinforcement in the form of removals for this MU. The more the better. Just keep on denying them creatures and resources. The addition of Phyrexian Dreadnought can make the race a lot easier for you, as this guy can pull a win out of nowhere. He is just BOSS if he takes the opponent by surprise.
Sideboard Suggestion: Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, more spot removal, and even Extirpate helps out in this MU. Depending on what you gathered of information during the 1st game, Pithing Needle might also be a solid addition to your arsenal.
VII. Concluding Remarks
If you want a deck that is revolves around stifling your opponents mana base (literally), efficient creatures that is protected by a wall of permission spells and takes advantage of your opponents tempo loss. Dark Thresh might be of interest to you! It has good match-up against most decks and it is versatile and can be tweaked to answer a variety of meta-games.
However, no decks are perfect. It has an inherit weakness against burn heavy decks. But as I mentioned earlier, this too can be tweaked around if your meta-game (or personal preferences) allows for it, note that it will certainly compensate by weakening some of your other match-ups in the process.
Any idea's, suggestions or comments regarding this primer, my current build or the archetype in general are most welcome! We want this primer to be as complete as possible and keep developing it for competitive play now and in the future! I would also like to thank Hakai Studios for providing us this awesome banner!
Currently, we need more information regard various match-up strategies. Anyone who has experience (little or many) please share your thoughts!
Seems like your core card list is missing brainstorm and a mention of Spell pierce/spell snare is missing in the card choices section.
Also if this is intended as a sort of primer on Ugb thresh then a bit more depth on the whys of card choices and black versus red as a splash might be good, as well as links to the recent top 8 lists.
What are people's thoughts on thresh in the presumed post survival ban meta?
Also I've disliked smother since it always felt a little too slow and weak for the 2 dmg it deals to you off confidant versus something like demise which gets nuked when along with your creatures when they remove your graveyard.
That being said I am happy to see more discussion on this arch-type.
For the record, one should ask before posting a new thread in Established or Proven.
But since Dark Thresh has shown up in multiple Top 8s, I'll allow this to stay here.
C_c: Im really sorry for that, I keep forgetting that rule!!
I've added some short card explanation in the above spoilers. And I'll try to link up some top 8s when I get the time later tonight.
Does anyone want to write about the introduction for the archetype? like Black vs. Red, White splash? And maybe a brief deck history if possible?
And why one should pick this deck over another etc. Also, where is the current best source for Top 8 decks? I only know about Morphling and deckcheck which was recently taken down by the owner.
We could also have section with forum-users deck-list just for the fun of it.
RE: Smother/Ghastly Demise.
I personally really like the card. Losing 2-pain from Bob when drawing it with him isn't that big of a deal to me. And Smother takes out creatures with cc 3 or less which means the majority of widely used creatures in the meta-game.
I'm more reluctant to use Ghastly Demise, we don't need more cards that are vulnerable to graveyard tech and can't kill black creatures is a bit of a down side for me as I've got a good number of black-mages.
It depends on the meta whether you use this or canadian thresh. Or Next Level Threshold which got 9th at GP Madrid. In this metagame I think dark thresh is better since it beats up VVs with extirpate and you can board perish in. Also for the primer you should add for the landbase for staple's have 3-4 tropical island and 3-4 underground sea since this is dark thresh after all. Question: Why 2 bayou's in your list? I'd imagine 1 would be enough to fight choke and such and that you should up the tropical island count by one. Or one more sea; it's really just preference on what you think you need more. Other than that, the list seems fine. Smother is VERY fine IMO because it answers those gigantic 3 drop creatures legacy has such as KotR, terravore, woolly thoctar <-- j/k. But yeah I agree with the ghastly demise point of view; sometimes we won't have a large enough GY to kill a creature or they have relic of progenitus/tormod's crypt up and running and us lacking a stifle for the activations effectively making ghastly demise a dead card because a good player will pop either of those in response to us casting ghastly demise. Taking a leaf out of team america's book/this decks cousin might not be bad so I will suggest snuff out for the removal suite. That card is pretty tempo swingy despite being 4 life.
On tombstalker. I think you run either stalker, or mongoose. Not together because together, they can be very anti synergystic if you don't have 13+ cards in your GY lol.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
It depends on the meta whether you use this or canadian thresh. Or Next Level Threshold which got 9th at GP Madrid. In this metagame I think dark thresh is better since it beats up VVs with extirpate and you can board perish in. Also for the primer you should add for the landbase for staple's have 3-4 tropical island and 3-4 underground sea since this is dark thresh after all. Question: Why 2 bayou's in your list? I'd imagine 1 would be enough to fight choke and such and that you should up the tropical island count by one. Or one more sea; it's really just preference on what you think you need more. Other than that, the list seems fine. Smother is VERY fine IMO because it answers those gigantic 3 drop creatures legacy has such as KotR, terravore, woolly thoctar <-- j/k. But yeah I agree with the ghastly demise point of view; sometimes we won't have a large enough GY to kill a creature or they have relic of progenitus/tormod's crypt up and running and us lacking a stifle for the activations effectively making ghastly demise a dead card because a good player will pop either of those in response to us casting ghastly demise. Taking a leaf out of team america's book/this decks cousin might not be bad so I will suggest snuff out for the removal suite. That card is pretty tempo swingy despite being 4 life.
On tombstalker. I think you run either stalker, or mongoose. Not together because together, they can be very anti synergystic if you don't have 13+ cards in your GY lol.
The Core & Card Selection section has been edited following your suggestions. Thanks!
RE: Bayou:
I didn't really have a good reason for running 2 Bayou instead of one, but I was actually thinking about cutting one for a basic Island. Giving me some chance in case someone running Moon-effects, or just more resilience to opposing Wastelands.
there's really no reason to run duals outside of u.sea and t.island. this is a blue based control deck splashing black and green for its creatures and removal, not the other way around. you also need the islands for your dazes and i would imagine that having a wasteland and bayou in your opening hand with no blue sources would be abyssmal.
-2 bayou
+2 island
and if i remember correctly, previous iterations of this deck ran a 3-3/4-2 split between brainstorm and ponder, 2-3 rushing rivers in the SB and 4 thoughtseize main deck, favoring disruption game 1 over bounce.
Since Extirpate is all over the place right now, I just wanted to add a different source of G/B mana, I didn't want to use basic Swamps and Forest as they are too narrow to warrant the use. So it was either blue consistency (Island) or having more options on G/B. There is a good chance of opponent being able to remove one of your mana sources, 2 is a bit more unlikely, although that can happen as well. So, if they manage to remove Tropical Island, I'm short out of green. With Bayou, I have all 3 colors still even if one of them gets removed.
But 2 Bayou is probably incorrect in anycase and should be 1 Island + 1 Bayou.
RE: MD Thoughtseize.
You could do that if you want, but I just like the fall-back plan that Rushing Rivers provides me. On the other hand, adding Thoughtseize gives more ways to prevent permanents to drop in the first place. I'll give the thought a spin for sure.
Since Extirpate is all over the place right now, I just wanted to add a different source of G/B mana, I didn't want to use basic Swamps and Forest as they are too narrow to warrant the use. So it was either blue consistency (Island) or having more options on G/B.
But 2 Bayou is probably incorrect in anycase and should be 1 Island + 1 Bayou.
i doubt people will be targeting your duals with extirpate. for one thing, the duals would have to get to the GY in the first place, meaning that they need another card like wasteland to be able to do that. the usual prime targets for extirpate are also your threats/counters, not your lands.
Well, it was a viable strategy I myself used (more than) once, which worked out quite well. You basically shut down both Mongoose and Goyf by extirpating Tropical Island, instead of targeting goyf or mongoose.
It probably won't happen alot of times, but Im just saying its an option that can be very disruptive. And if my deck doesn't really lose anything by playing 1 Island + 1 Bayou over 2 Islands or more U/x duals, then I don't see any reason for NOT to be more resilient in that way.
Well, it was a viable strategy I myself used (more than) once, which worked out quite well. You basically shut down both Mongoose and Goyf by extirpating Tropical Island, instead of targeting goyf or mongoose.
It probably won't happen alot of times, but Im just saying its an option that can be very disruptive. And if my deck doesn't really lose anything by playing 1 Island + 1 Bayou over 2 Islands or more U/x duals, then I don't see any reason for NOT to be more resilient in that way.
true. except that you run only 18 lands with everything but a lone island targettable by wasteland and even your fetches can be hit by stifle. you're more likely to get land screwed than have your tropical island extirpated.
Theres always the risk of being screwerd that way unfortunately. However, I've tried playing with 20 land, and that didn't really work out too great for me. I found myself drawing land too often, even with all the fetches.
Its a bit of a gamble playing 18 land in some meta-games, but it has been quite consistant for me at the moment. I think the standard acceptable land count is 18. I've seen top 8 lists with 17, 19 and 20 lands as well. But it seems that the majority is playing 18, which is what I also find "optimal" at the moment. Of course, if you find yourself mana screwed, or your meta is swarming with Wasteland, Stifle, Sinkholes, Smallpox etc. Then upping the land count is a smart way to lessen the effect of these strategies.
Well I have really enjoyed this deck for a bit. Since it uses some of my favorite cards. In testing I found that Nimble Mongoose was a pretty lackluster. So i replaced him with one of my favorite creatures, Tombstalker. I will explain some things in a second
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tombstalker
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
1 Ponder
2 Spell snare
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Smother
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Misty Rainforect
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
The Goyfs and Confidant are mandatory but some might think 3 Tombstalker is a bit much with Confidant. It can end up being a beating on yourself but thats where your preordains, brainstorm, and singleton Ponder come into play. So you can stack the library.
The dis synergy between Ghastly Demise and Tombstalker is negligible. There has been pretty much no situations that I have been in where Ghastly Demise wasn't going to kill something relevant after dropping Tombstalker. Even multiple Tombstalkers. Not to mention, Tombstalker blocks vengevines like a boss and is a sort clock.
The 1 Ponder is just an extra card to stack your deck with. Also im a huge fan of cantrips.
Smother is prolly the other best piece of removal i could come up with. Snuff out would be way too much life lose. But i might try the same shell but go up to 4 mongooses over Tombstalkers and other things and Snuff Outs over Smother.
The Verdant Catacombs are also great at bluffing turn 1 Stifle but I assume more of you have assumed that.
The sideboard is also still up in the air as I haven't really done sideboard testing yet. Hope you guys enjoy this deck as much as i enjoy playing it.
I like your list, If you are moving away from Tombstalkers, you could try to add Vendilion Clique instead of it, either as 3 or 2 copies, since you find Nimble Mongoose to be lacking.
Other than that, welcome to the thread! Looking forward for more of your input.
How consistent is your landbase? 2 off color lands seems rough not to mention you run 2 (!) tropical island's but I guess your green consists of EE to an extent and goyf. Snuff out + tombstalker in a deck with 4 bobs is a terrible idea. Pay 4 life for snuff out when it gets drawn with confidant then pay another 4 life to kill a creature. That's 8 life and against zoo, that is a terrible tradeoff unless you immediately win the game thereafter. Even then you'll likely be within fireblast range or bolt range even so I don't think you should run snuff out.
TL;DR Don't run snuff out.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Im not overly sure if your talking about my manabase or a previous post but my manabase is fairly consistent. You got the colors you need, the 2 off color snaplands could easily be Polluted Delta but for budgetary reasons im using Verdant Catacombs, which I have run into zero issues with. My list has 9 cantrips to help dig towards mana that you need. If you fear just play Stifle defensively as opposed to aggressively to stunt their mana.
I was talking about dropping the Tombstalker. Since there isn't a problem with the Tombstalkers I could drop em in a different variant. I imagine it would look something similar to this ( This is a rough draft)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
2 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Snuff Out
4 Misty Rainforect
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
I know there isn't much change but its what I would make the changes for. Remember that Swords is also the best piece of removal in the format. You can use it to your advantage in this deck. This is all just my opinion though, im by no means an expert on this archtype but i do love the deck and am constantly trying to tweak at it.
You rarely want to play stifle defensively. It goes against what this deck is trying to do and if you play the card right the opponent won't waste your land in the first place due to their own mana screw despite wasteland tapping only for colorless. Seriously, stifling a fetch then wasting a land of their's is one of the most brutal plays in legacy. Also, stifling a fetch then dropping confidant also results in GG's most of the time due to the huge tempo gain. Only reason to stifle a wasteland is if you yourself are land screwed. If they waste a land and you keep making consistent land drops afterwards, the wasteland typically doesn't matter unless they go waste your tropical island, extirpate it. Then you're in a tricky spot except in your list which runs basics which is generally not done in tempo decks such as this one or canadian thresh due to consistency issues.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Im not overly sure if your talking about my manabase or a previous post but my manabase is fairly consistent. You got the colors you need, the 2 off color snaplands could easily be Polluted Delta but for budgetary reasons im using Verdant Catacombs, which I have run into zero issues with. My list has 9 cantrips to help dig towards mana that you need. If you fear just play Stifle defensively as opposed to aggressively to stunt their mana.
I was talking about dropping the Tombstalker. Since there isn't a problem with the Tombstalkers I could drop em in a different variant. I imagine it would look something similar to this ( This is a rough draft)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
2 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Snuff Out
4 Misty Rainforect
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
I know there isn't much change but its what I would make the changes for. Remember that Swords is also the best piece of removal in the format. You can use it to your advantage in this deck. This is all just my opinion though, im by no means an expert on this archtype but i do love the deck and am constantly trying to tweak at it.
or a 3/3 split between the two. Or, include Diabolic Edict (or Snuff Out if you really want to use it) in a 2/2/2 split.
I would also be wary of using too much basic lands, other than Island. Having one helps you casting 2 drops if you're in a pinch vs. Wasteland. Having more just puts weights on your consistency. It is valid to use more however if you keep having troubles vs land disruption I guess.
Seems Dark Confidant is the new "thing" and every second deck seems to be splashing black for Confidant. Guess I better get my Bobs before their price escalates even further.
Dark Confidant has been a staple for quite some time now. I think its rather what black provides in the form of Extirpate and Perish etc. that are key spells in a Survival of the Fittest meta-game, that stirred up attention towards black. Naturally, Dark Confidant is an auto include (w/ som exceptions).
Im curious as to why Diabloic Edict would see play over Smother. Aside from the obvious usefulness against Emrakul, progenitus and maybe others that I can't think of? Is it worth giving up the the ability to target pesky creatures?
Im curious as to why Diabloic Edict would see play over Smother. Aside from the obvious usefulness against Emrakul, progenitus and maybe others that I can't think of? Is it worth giving up the the ability to target pesky creatures?
As Lyracian pointed out, it depends on your meta-game or expectations. My point was that you should try to avoid using a full set of Ghastly Demise (unless that is a choice you have done based on information of meta-game), because it is quite vulnerable to graveyard tech and can't target black creatures.
EDIT:
Referring back to the list i presented in post #1 (D3@D Thresh), I'd like to get stirr more discussion on optimizing the deck.
What will the deck gain/lose if I made these changes:
As a rule of thumb I take Preordain over Ponder, you don't need to dig for stuff in this deck, and if your not running Tombstalker like i am your life lose from confidant is 5 at most. Preordain gets you either 1 of 2 cards that is good, leaves both if they are both good, or gets you a card you aren't aware of but you still get it. Which is good cause then you aren't stuck with 2 bad cards. Usually Ponder will get you like 1 good card and you could be stuck drawing 2 bad cards, or even 1.
I love Inquisition of Kozilek, its definitely a 4 of in my board. I was thinking on moving em to the maindeck as it kinda makes you more aggressive. I like Vendilion Clique but I sometimes just think she is lackluster as well.
Deed is boss, great against merfolk and all aggro. Random Enchantress matches are easier with it. I think what choices you've made are the right call. But I wouldn't put in 2 Inquisitions, I would go all or nothing.
Theres always the risk of being screwerd that way unfortunately. However, I've tried playing with 20 land, and that didn't really work out too great for me. I found myself drawing land too often, even with all the fetches.
Its a bit of a gamble playing 18 land in some meta-games, but it has been quite consistant for me at the moment. I think the standard acceptable land count is 18. I've seen top 8 lists with 17, 19 and 20 lands as well. But it seems that the majority is playing 18, which is what I also find "optimal" at the moment. Of course, if you find yourself mana screwed, or your meta is swarming with Wasteland, Stifle, Sinkholes, Smallpox etc. Then upping the land count is a smart way to lessen the effect of these strategies.
the point was more that all your lands can be hit by wasteland, thereby land screwing you if not color screwing as well. it's a scenario that will come up a lot more often than an opponent extirpating your topical island. i suggest you drop that last bayou for an island. i'll leave it at that.
As Lyracian pointed out, it depends on your meta-game or expectations. My point was that you should try to avoid using a full set of Ghastly Demise (unless that is a choice you have done based on information of meta-game), because it is quite vulnerable to graveyard tech and can't target black creatures.
EDIT:
Referring back to the list i presented in post #1 (D3@D Thresh), I'd like to get stirr more discussion on optimizing the deck.
What will the deck gain/lose if I made these changes:
i'm a little concerned that going less than 12 creatures will dilute the deck's threat density too much. this deck doesn't run soft locks like counterbalance to control the game for an extended period, and ponder/brainstorm is more for card quality than CA.
anyhow, you can make room for IoK by doing this:
-1 spell snare
-1 daze
-2 rushing river
+4 inquisition of kozilek
or you could add the 2 cliques to your 12 creatures instead together with IoK by going:
-1 stifle
-2 spell snare
-1 daze
-2 rushing river
+4 inquisition of kozilek
+2 vendilion clique
and ponder > preordain because it allows you to dig deeper and works well with fetchlands.
Great replies, they are definately something to think about. However, my question would then have to be: Is the change desirable? I mean Mongoose vs Clique, Blue-instants vs. Kozilek etc.
I. Introduction
BUG Threshold (a.k.a. Dark Thresh), is a variant of the popular archtype Threshold. It comes in the form of various color combination with Blue as the main color of choice, and green as its secondary color. Well known variants of Threshold other than Dark Thresh, are decks like; UGR (e.g. Canadian Threshold), UGW (e.g. CounterTop Thresh, NO Thresh), BUG (Team America) and some 4color Thresh.
Perhaps the most successful and popular of the variants has been in the past Canadian Thresh. Utilizing the color red for cards like; Fire//Ice, Lightning Bolt and sideboard cards such as Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. This gives the deck some reach and good options for crowd-control.
What Dark Thresh lack in reach, it compensates by adding more card-drawing ability from Dark Confidant. It also gives the deck better removals to deal with larger creatures (e.g. Smother). Although Dark Thresh has been around in the Legacy meta for quite some time now, it has recently gained a lot of interests and attention due to its sideboard applications, especially Extirpate. These factors in combination with Thresholds already well known strenghts (Counter-magic, Wasteland + Stifle etc.) has proven to be a force to be reconed with in Legacy.
II. Building the Deck
These are often the cards one starts with in mind when building a Dark Thresh deck. Nimble Mongoose might not be mandatory but its part of the deck's namesake, so I included it in The Core. This little guy should not be underestimated though. The rest of the core cards are pretty self-explanatory, so no additional words needed here.
Mana Base:
6+ On-color Fetchland
4 Wasteland
3-4 Tropical Island
3-4 Underground Sea
Creature:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant:
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
Sorcery:
4 Ponder
EDIT: March 07, 2011.
The deck still has its merits and force in Legacy. However the popularity and widespread of pilots makes Dark Thresh a rarity to find among the top 8 finishes. Its a very tight deck with little to no innovation from new cards or tech so far in 2011. The deck is also very meta-game dependent and my be one reason why people opt for other decks. Most recent trend is the addition of Phyrexian Dreadnought in either main deck or sideboard. Another recent inclusion is Go for the Throat, which is a solid Legacy removal.
Some examples of widely used, or, possible card choices to fill in the slots both MD or SB. It's just to give you some idea of what the possibilities are. Let me know if you miss some cards that should be included.
Creature:
Lorescale Coatl - Not widely used, but it has its merrits due to the decent draw power this deck has.
Phyrexian Dreadnought - I've seen this as a one, or two of in some builds. Interesting addition IMO.
Phyrexian Negator - I haven't seen this one used in this type of deck for awhile, it can be a great choice considering all the counter magic we can back it up with.
Putrid Leech - If you feel the need for another agressive 2-drop, or can't afford the Goyf.
Quirion Dryad - Classic GROW creature. Another Goyf-replacement if budget is a concern.
Sower of Temptation - Hasn't been a choice in recent lists, but can be a nice choice in some meta-games.
Terravore - Decent 3-drop that is more than often larger than bold-range.
Tombstalker - I would only play 2 copies of this guy, but we got a decent amount of library manipulation, so I wouldn't worry too much about BoB in combination with this one.
Trygon Predator - Good SB and MD card, nice to have with your arsenal.
Vendilion Clique - I've seen a couple of these show up in recent builds again, really good for combat tricks and surprises.
Instant:
Blue Elemental Blast - If you don't like red. (See also Hydroblast)
Chain of Vapor - Cheap bounce that takes out more than just creatures. Can deal with planewalkers and other pesky permanents.
Diabolic Edict - Popular removal for a reason. Takes care of lots of problematic creatures, not as powerful vs. swarm-decks though.
Disfigure - Solid removal that takes out a good chunk of Legay staple creatures.
Divert - Seen some lists running this in their sideboard. Personally, I'm not that big of a fan, I'm sure it has its merrits.
Extirpate - Mostly used in SBs, but it can be argued for a place in the MD in some meta-games. You at least need some of these within your 75+ card choices.
Ghastly Demise - A type of "threshold" card, which happens to be a good removal. Can't take out black creatures though.
Hurkyl's Recall - Sideboard tech if you're having issues with artifact-based decks.
Krosan Grip - Graet card choice, especially vs. countertop decks.
Nature's Claim - See above, only slightly worse in some cases and better in other.
Putrefy - Good choice if you need some MD artifact tech. On the high-end of the curve though.
Rushing River - An answer to most things, can save you from a pinch. Also on the high-end of the curve, but its blue.
Smother - My removal of choice for this deck and current meta. It takes out 90+ % of the creatures you want to take.
Snuff Out - Decent removal that gives a good tempo gain. It can be on the high-end of casting cost, both in terms of life-loss and mana.
Spell Pierce - Solid counter spell. Either used in SB or MD in most builds.
Spell Snare - See above, only slightly more useful currently IMO.
Sorcery:
Deathmark - Decent cheap creature removal vs certain MUs.
Duress - These can come in handy in some MUs, can also warrant MD slot depending on meta-game and player preference.
Inquisition of Kozilek - See above (more versatile in meta with lots of aggro)
Maelstrom Pulse - Like Putrefy above, only better.
Preordain - Can come in instead of Ponder, or if you need more library manipulation.
Thoughtseize - See similar spell-types above. Best of the 3, but comes with a painful life-loss.
Miscellaneous:
Counterbalance - One could easily tweak this deck to incorporate the Counter/Top combination.
Engineered Explosives - Popular MD or SB choice, obviously good vs. swarms, but its not very cost efficient in terms of mana. Solid nonetheless.
Engineered Plague - Good vs. tribal-type decks like Merfolk and Goblins.
Leyline of the Void - Useful graveyard tech.
Mind Harness - Useful sideboard option, takes control over opposing Goyfs, KotR, Terravore etc.
Null Rod - Another sideboard option to answer some annoying abilities from artifacts.
Pernicious Deed - One of the best reset-buttons in the game.
Pithing Needle - If you need to shut down some irritating abilities (equipments, SDT, Planeswalker etc.) this is your card.
Relic of Progenitus - Solid graveyard tech.
Sensei's Divining Top - More library manipulation.
Sylvan Library - And, even more library manipulation.
Threads of Disloyalty - Useful sideboard card in some occations, controls a significant nr of creatures in Legacy.
Tormod's Crypt - Solid graveyard tech.
III. How to Play
I'm sure there are several ways to play this deck, but I'm going to make it short and simple and present my take on piloting this deck.
If you look at the core of the deck, you have a good deal of counter-magic (or instants in general), making it only natural to play a reactive game-plan. Your start 7 should always have some sort of permission card (or discard if you use them). You want to trade cards with your opponent and disrupt their tempo, from which you will gain an advantage on due to your many card-filtering (draw) cards. Like all Tempo Thresh decks, Wasteland & Stifle is your MVP cards. The latter of which can gain you so much tempo gain by fizzling fetch-lands that its almost absurd. Once you've manage to build enough resources to play threats (built up your graveyard for Goyf & Mongoose to be large) and provide them protection, you want to switch to a more aggressive play to take advantage of your opponent lagging behind in card options. This usually happens between turn 3-5. If they manage to reset or catch up on to you for some reason. Switch back to control mode and start again. Unless you see an opportunity to race, or push through your attack force. It's a very skill-intensive deck to pilot really, but it can also win you games out of nowhere. You want to use your Brainstorm and fetch-lands wisely, keeping your options open and be able to dig for answers in case of unexpected play from your opponent. In general terms, you want to play Dark Confidant as early as possible and try to keep him for at least 2 turns to get some net card advantage from him, any card you get to draw from him after that, is just a bonus. I wouldn't mind to trade him 1 for 1 with a creature after that.
IV. The Match-Ups
Match-up ratings are set from 1-10, where 1 = Unwinnable, and 10 = Walk in the Park
(Note that these ratings are set according to my MU experience so far, so these might not be accurate to your experience. The ratings might also change after more testing on my part)
More to come.. (Need more community input here also)
Rating: Game one (6), Post board (6.5-7)
I find this MU quite in our favor both game one as well as post board. Game 1, we got more, or equal amount of counter magic, better removals and better card drawing. If we can manage to keep their creatures from swarming the board, its a highly winnable MU.
Game 2, we have access to more and better SB options than they do IMO. Bring in relevant counter measures and/or discard effects. Watch out for graveyard tech, and try to resolve Engineered Plague.
Sideboard Suggestion:
+ 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
+ 2 Engineered Plague (or Engineered Explosives)
Spell Pierce and Extirpates can also be a viable option in this MU
Rating: Game one (5,5), Post board (6)
Game one, you need to focus your counter magic on his important stuff. You have far more counter magic than he has, you got Stifle and Wasteland for his mana-base and you have a better draw-engine in Bob. Once he manage to resolve a creature, the game is basically over.
Game two, should have good board options vs this deck. It should be in your favor, as long as you don't keep risky hand. But the opponent can always get the random, Sneak, Creature + 2x counter back-up.
Sideboard Suggestion:
2+ Pithing Needle, 2+ Extirpate, 3+ Spell Pierce 2+ Krosan Grip/Trygon Predator and/or X Diabolic Edict or Sower of Temptation
Rating: Game one (5), Post board (5)
This is a very unsure MU depending on your MD/Top deck and sideboard choices. You need to be able to counter his early lock pieces. Force him on top deck mode, and resolve an early beater as soon as possible. Bob or Goyf is the optimal one for this game. Waste his land that taps for 2 colorless when possible, and watch out for Armageddon.
Post board, you need to board whatever you got against artifacts and spell pierces, and look out for Suppression Field that can nullify your fetch-lands.
Sideboard Suggestion:
Krosan Grip/Nature's Claim, Trygon Predator, Spell Pierce and perhaps Pithing Needle against his Kill-con Elspeth. Engineered Explosives is also good here to take out his Moxes, CotV etc.
Rating: Game one (5.5), Post board (5.5)
Here we need to focus on disrupting their mana-base. Zoo is very reliable and vulnerable on their mana-base. Having 6+ removals MD helps you abit as well. Once you go top-deck mode, Bob will help fill your hand faster than his. After that, protect your Goyf or just swing with no concerns with Mongoose.
Post board, the same strategy applies. Be on alert on whatever they bring in against you and try to keep hands with Stifle as they are heavy on using fetch-lands.
Sideboard Suggestion:
Spell Pierce, creature removal and perhaps Pithing Needle (On their Jitte, Elspeth or Fetches.)
Rating: Game one (4.5), Post board (5.5)
Game one is winnable, but you need to get somewhat lucky with your draws. You can't counter all his threats, but if you can manage to get past the first wave of attack, that is the first storm of creatures dropping from your opponents hand into the battlefield, you should be able to establish control especially with Dark Confidant on the table.
Post board, you play the same game-plan. This time however, you better have pulled out some reinforcement in the form of removals for this MU. The more the better. Just keep on denying them creatures and resources. The addition of Phyrexian Dreadnought can make the race a lot easier for you, as this guy can pull a win out of nowhere. He is just BOSS if he takes the opponent by surprise.
Sideboard Suggestion:
Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, more spot removal, and even Extirpate helps out in this MU. Depending on what you gathered of information during the 1st game, Pithing Needle might also be a solid addition to your arsenal.
V. Deck Examples
Source: deckcheck.de
Marco Kesseler - Top 5 in a 40 player tournament
Lluis Restoy - Top 8 in a 99 player tournament
Adan - Top 3 in a 46 player tournament
Source: mtgthesource.org
Dennis Kaupelmann - Top 5 in a 207 player tournament
Source: TC Decks
Nicolo Valentini - Top 3 in a 31 player tournament
Juan A. Montañes - Top 7 in a 29 player tournament
VI. OP's Current Deck List
1 Island
Non-Basic Land: 17
4 Wasteland
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
Artifact: 2
2 Engineered Explosives
Creature: 11
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
2 Go for the Throat
2 Smother
1 Trickbind
Sorcery: 4
4 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Extirpate
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
1 Nature's Claim
1 Trickbind
VII. Concluding Remarks
If you want a deck that is revolves around stifling your opponents mana base (literally), efficient creatures that is protected by a wall of permission spells and takes advantage of your opponents tempo loss. Dark Thresh might be of interest to you! It has good match-up against most decks and it is versatile and can be tweaked to answer a variety of meta-games.
However, no decks are perfect. It has an inherit weakness against burn heavy decks. But as I mentioned earlier, this too can be tweaked around if your meta-game (or personal preferences) allows for it, note that it will certainly compensate by weakening some of your other match-ups in the process.
Any idea's, suggestions or comments regarding this primer, my current build or the archetype in general are most welcome! We want this primer to be as complete as possible and keep developing it for competitive play now and in the future! I would also like to thank Hakai Studios for providing us this awesome banner!
Currently, we need more information regard various match-up strategies. Anyone who has experience (little or many) please share your thoughts!
D3@D
Lets make it happen ! If you want to help gather info for the primer, let me know
But since Dark Thresh has shown up in multiple Top 8s, I'll allow this to stay here.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Also if this is intended as a sort of primer on Ugb thresh then a bit more depth on the whys of card choices and black versus red as a splash might be good, as well as links to the recent top 8 lists.
What are people's thoughts on thresh in the presumed post survival ban meta?
Also I've disliked smother since it always felt a little too slow and weak for the 2 dmg it deals to you off confidant versus something like demise which gets nuked when along with your creatures when they remove your graveyard.
That being said I am happy to see more discussion on this arch-type.
My $0.02
C_c: Im really sorry for that, I keep forgetting that rule!!
I've added some short card explanation in the above spoilers. And I'll try to link up some top 8s when I get the time later tonight.
Does anyone want to write about the introduction for the archetype? like Black vs. Red, White splash? And maybe a brief deck history if possible?
And why one should pick this deck over another etc. Also, where is the current best source for Top 8 decks? I only know about Morphling and deckcheck which was recently taken down by the owner.
We could also have section with forum-users deck-list just for the fun of it.
RE: Smother/Ghastly Demise.
I personally really like the card. Losing 2-pain from Bob when drawing it with him isn't that big of a deal to me. And Smother takes out creatures with cc 3 or less which means the majority of widely used creatures in the meta-game.
I'm more reluctant to use Ghastly Demise, we don't need more cards that are vulnerable to graveyard tech and can't kill black creatures is a bit of a down side for me as I've got a good number of black-mages.
D3@D
On tombstalker. I think you run either stalker, or mongoose. Not together because together, they can be very anti synergystic if you don't have 13+ cards in your GY lol.
Currently Playing:
Retired
The Core & Card Selection section has been edited following your suggestions. Thanks!
RE: Bayou:
I didn't really have a good reason for running 2 Bayou instead of one, but I was actually thinking about cutting one for a basic Island. Giving me some chance in case someone running Moon-effects, or just more resilience to opposing Wastelands.
-2 bayou
+2 island
and if i remember correctly, previous iterations of this deck ran a 3-3/4-2 split between brainstorm and ponder, 2-3 rushing rivers in the SB and 4 thoughtseize main deck, favoring disruption game 1 over bounce.
But 2 Bayou is probably incorrect in anycase and should be 1 Island + 1 Bayou.
RE: MD Thoughtseize.
You could do that if you want, but I just like the fall-back plan that Rushing Rivers provides me. On the other hand, adding Thoughtseize gives more ways to prevent permanents to drop in the first place. I'll give the thought a spin for sure.
i doubt people will be targeting your duals with extirpate. for one thing, the duals would have to get to the GY in the first place, meaning that they need another card like wasteland to be able to do that. the usual prime targets for extirpate are also your threats/counters, not your lands.
It probably won't happen alot of times, but Im just saying its an option that can be very disruptive. And if my deck doesn't really lose anything by playing 1 Island + 1 Bayou over 2 Islands or more U/x duals, then I don't see any reason for NOT to be more resilient in that way.
true. except that you run only 18 lands with everything but a lone island targettable by wasteland and even your fetches can be hit by stifle. you're more likely to get land screwed than have your tropical island extirpated.
Its a bit of a gamble playing 18 land in some meta-games, but it has been quite consistant for me at the moment. I think the standard acceptable land count is 18. I've seen top 8 lists with 17, 19 and 20 lands as well. But it seems that the majority is playing 18, which is what I also find "optimal" at the moment. Of course, if you find yourself mana screwed, or your meta is swarming with Wasteland, Stifle, Sinkholes, Smallpox etc. Then upping the land count is a smart way to lessen the effect of these strategies.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tombstalker
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
1 Ponder
2 Spell snare
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Smother
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Misty Rainforect
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
The Goyfs and Confidant are mandatory but some might think 3 Tombstalker is a bit much with Confidant. It can end up being a beating on yourself but thats where your preordains, brainstorm, and singleton Ponder come into play. So you can stack the library.
The dis synergy between Ghastly Demise and Tombstalker is negligible. There has been pretty much no situations that I have been in where Ghastly Demise wasn't going to kill something relevant after dropping Tombstalker. Even multiple Tombstalkers. Not to mention, Tombstalker blocks vengevines like a boss and is a sort clock.
The 1 Ponder is just an extra card to stack your deck with. Also im a huge fan of cantrips.
Smother is prolly the other best piece of removal i could come up with. Snuff out would be way too much life lose. But i might try the same shell but go up to 4 mongooses over Tombstalkers and other things and Snuff Outs over Smother.
The Verdant Catacombs are also great at bluffing turn 1 Stifle but I assume more of you have assumed that.
The sideboard is also still up in the air as I haven't really done sideboard testing yet. Hope you guys enjoy this deck as much as i enjoy playing it.
Other than that, welcome to the thread! Looking forward for more of your input.
D3@D
TL;DR Don't run snuff out.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I was talking about dropping the Tombstalker. Since there isn't a problem with the Tombstalkers I could drop em in a different variant. I imagine it would look something similar to this ( This is a rough draft)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
2 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Snuff Out
4 Misty Rainforect
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
I know there isn't much change but its what I would make the changes for. Remember that Swords is also the best piece of removal in the format. You can use it to your advantage in this deck. This is all just my opinion though, im by no means an expert on this archtype but i do love the deck and am constantly trying to tweak at it.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I would suggest swapping your removal package to:
4 Smother
2 Ghastly Demise
or a 3/3 split between the two. Or, include Diabolic Edict (or Snuff Out if you really want to use it) in a 2/2/2 split.
I would also be wary of using too much basic lands, other than Island. Having one helps you casting 2 drops if you're in a pinch vs. Wasteland. Having more just puts weights on your consistency. It is valid to use more however if you keep having troubles vs land disruption I guess.
Dark Confidant has been a staple for quite some time now. I think its rather what black provides in the form of Extirpate and Perish etc. that are key spells in a Survival of the Fittest meta-game, that stirred up attention towards black. Naturally, Dark Confidant is an auto include (w/ som exceptions).
As Lyracian pointed out, it depends on your meta-game or expectations. My point was that you should try to avoid using a full set of Ghastly Demise (unless that is a choice you have done based on information of meta-game), because it is quite vulnerable to graveyard tech and can't target black creatures.
EDIT:
Referring back to the list i presented in post #1 (D3@D Thresh), I'd like to get stirr more discussion on optimizing the deck.
What will the deck gain/lose if I made these changes:
-4 Nimble Mongoose
-2 Rushing River
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek
+2 Vendilion Clique
or,
-2 Rushing River
-1 Spell Snare
+3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Are there other cards we should include in the main deck? E.g. Pernicious Deed or Engineered Explosives?
Which one is the better in this deck: Ponder or Preordain?
I love Inquisition of Kozilek, its definitely a 4 of in my board. I was thinking on moving em to the maindeck as it kinda makes you more aggressive. I like Vendilion Clique but I sometimes just think she is lackluster as well.
Deed is boss, great against merfolk and all aggro. Random Enchantress matches are easier with it. I think what choices you've made are the right call. But I wouldn't put in 2 Inquisitions, I would go all or nothing.
the point was more that all your lands can be hit by wasteland, thereby land screwing you if not color screwing as well. it's a scenario that will come up a lot more often than an opponent extirpating your topical island. i suggest you drop that last bayou for an island. i'll leave it at that.
i'm a little concerned that going less than 12 creatures will dilute the deck's threat density too much. this deck doesn't run soft locks like counterbalance to control the game for an extended period, and ponder/brainstorm is more for card quality than CA.
anyhow, you can make room for IoK by doing this:
-1 spell snare
-1 daze
-2 rushing river
+4 inquisition of kozilek
or you could add the 2 cliques to your 12 creatures instead together with IoK by going:
-1 stifle
-2 spell snare
-1 daze
-2 rushing river
+4 inquisition of kozilek
+2 vendilion clique
and ponder > preordain because it allows you to dig deeper and works well with fetchlands.