No Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon? Why? I understand you're trying to keep the curve uber low... I still think it's worth including as a 1 or 2 of... maybe.
Oh hey, I just posted a casual version of this deck without realising this existed.
Would Bounty of the Hunt help get you there?
I was thinking Winter Orb were cheap enough to slow down the opposition. You could feed it as well as 12 of the creatures in the deck to Throne of Geth to throw in the last few poison counters.
maybe +4 lotus petal(I like this better with my sideboard even thought it pumps tarmogoyf) or 4 elvish spirit guide
-2 giant growth
-1 rancor
-1 overgrown tomb
Vector Asp is strictly bad. Giant Growth? I much prefer Seal of Strength as a turn 1 trop.
Also go up on the VoV. Great at evading removal.
Also you may want to think about adding a couple sylvan libraries in here for consistency.
How has this list been working for you? I'm currently mono green and I like it, but I do feel that Plague Stinger is good. Just not sure if splashing just for him is necessary.
I don't know if poisonous and Infect deal the same amount of poison counter.
For poisonous it says: Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter(s). A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game.
For infect it says: This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.
Can somebody illuminate me?
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Currently playing: Soul SistersWB & The GateB Vial KnightsW & Crucible PoxB Faerie StompyU & BurnR
I don't know if poisonous and Infect deal the same amount of poison counter.
For poisonous it says: Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter(s). A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game.
For infect it says: This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.
Can somebody illuminate me?
slivers will do damage, then the damaged player will get 1 poison counter for each sliver that dealt damage, not for each damage dealt. So no sliver isnt good.
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Currently Playing:
Standard:
U/G TurboTitans
B/G TurboNixilis
Extended:
Preeminant Watch
RDW
(trying to hatch an Extended deck to abuse Emrakul...)
Legacy:
Vial Goblins mono red
Trisomy 21- Loam Control
EDH:
Brion Stoutarm- Fling Drazi
Rafiq of the Many Huge Show and Tell Dudes
Oh hey, I just posted a casual version of this deck without realising this existed.
Would Bounty of the Hunt help get you there?
I was thinking Winter Orb were cheap enough to slow down the opposition. You could feed it as well as 12 of the creatures in the deck to Throne of Geth to throw in the last few poison counters.
Funny you should say Bounty of the Hunt. I too have realized the card's power. A free Giant Growth may not look significant on the surface, but trust me when I say it's a HUGE advantage to have it free. One green mana is the difference from casting a Berserk x2, another pump spell, etc. A great card for the deck IMO. Especially a version with a low land count and Land Grant.
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Top8: finishes with own creations:
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
maybe I missed it but why not bonesplitter axe it ups the power of your infects and stay around if the creature died. plus it can be tossed to throne of geth later game.
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Hello Everyone,
I am the guy in that article, and would like to give some input on the card choices in the deck.
Yes it was a budget deck, but at the same time, I really only want bayous in the deck, to make the mana base
X4 Bayou
X4 Overgrown Battlement
X4 Verdant Catacomb
X2 Swamp
X2 Forest
X1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgamoth
17 seems very low, but between hierarch, and the fact you only need 2 lands to go off (with sometimes the chance to go off on land) it helps a lot.
To the decks running more fetches, you don't need the misty. The thinning is great, but the life loss is key. In round 4 of the feature match, If I played the basic in my hand instead of the Shockland game two, I think I had Emerakul outraced, but I still need to watch that replay to see what was in his hand, other than that, yes you get to go off turns 2-4 and so life doesn't really matter, but the fetch land is too much. Also you do need some basics. While I told people that I personally love being wastelanded (how many decks can say that) because if keeps them off mana, and as I said you only need one land once you go off, In round one game two, lets just say trying to race 3 gofy's and a knight of the req with 0 lands in play is not happening.
Next is the creature.
Ichorclaw myr and Plague stingers are the best cards in the deck. the former can kill basically any creature and stinger has flying. Heirarch is used as mana ramp and exalted.
To the people saying Virlent Silver and Vector Asp are bad, have you tried playing with them? Any game where I went turn one either of them I basically one. And they are quite key against ANT. In one round, I played against ANT, and the fact they deal COMBAT damage was key in making sure they weren't at 20 life for Ad nasseum. Virlent doing both is a bonus, Asp giving you a choice is key in seeing if your oppenent block is.
Also very rarely do I cast hierach turn 1, asp and sliver are almost never dazed, hierach is. Plus attacking on turn two with the exalted bonus helps towards those turn 3/4 wins.
Putrafax is Horrible, I had in in the deck originally as late game reach, and had Bounty of the Hunt in the deck as well (more on that later) but you never get to 5 mana, and while it may in 1 out of 20 games, it either is not resolving or the game is over before that (remember you are only running 17 lands).
Cystbearer is also in the deck from when I had Bounty in the deck. The deck is very easy to play around daze with, and cystbearer doesn't help, hence why you only have two, but the 3 toughness is key in a lot of combat steps and turn 2 bear off a hierarch is the strongest play you can do. Doesn't happen often, but against any creature deck, you are most likely going to win the race.
Necropede is just horrible. 2 mana for a 1/1 that does nothing. If your creatures are going to the graveyard you are losing. I'd rather have a pump spell then pede in my deck, and that is exactly what I did.
Elvish spirit guide- I thought about putting in this deck as turn 1 any two drop is just huge, but what do you remove for it? Land? your running low as it is, and you need the land types in play to make sure you can cast your "free" spells. Creatures? your pump is pointless on no creatures, just not worth it. Spells? trade your pump spells for a card that only produces mana is pretty weak. Your pumps are already cheap enough/free, and I'd rather have a +4/+4 then +1 green per turn.
Now for the pumps
Invigorate- pretty self explanatory, +4/+4 for them to gain a basically irrelevant 3 life auto in.
Rouse- again free spell is free , why didn't I run four? Didn't own 4.
Vines of Vastwood- probably the most important spell. Making sure you are safe from a Swords to Plowshares is very relevant, the fact it boosts is just gravy, but very relevant gravy.
Tainted Strike- ever attack for 9 poison counters with a Noble Hierarch alone? I have, and it is great, but on a more relevant side, it makes your vector asps and Virulent Slivers that the much better. When Virulent Sliver does 3 poison counter on one attack (2 infect damage, 1 Poisonous trigger) it adds up. And while I have not had to do this yet, a Darkness a creature can be the difference between a win and a loss.
Wild Might- I need a pump spell, and this was the best I found. +5/+5 for two mana is very good. Why not Groundswell? Can't guarantee Landfall. Giant Growth, not big enough pump, etc. It was the best I found. That being said, it is also the weakest card in the deck following Putrafax.
Beserk- ah this card, why didn't I play this card? Two reason, first reason budget, just didn't own them, and it is not really needed. But as I told Stark, I don't like the card. Yes it allows you to have a turn two win. But my issue with the card is that you need other cards to make it good. By itself making your 1/1 into a 2/1 trample is not impressive. It is already bad enough you need to reply on creature + pump spells just asking to get 2 for 1'ed, but when a card needs a creature + a pump + itself, well hello there 3 for 1. Not that is not to say I have not played 4 pump spells on a creature to win the game, I'm just saying having a card that requires that situation I just don;t agree on. The next issue is the sac effect on the card. Now if your going to win that turn, it is not relevant, but in some matches (merfolk especially) it will come down to you bashing with an irchorclaw myr and forcing them to trade with lords. Power versus consistancy. Though If I were to play this deck again,I would probably trade both wild might and putrafax for berserk, so its not like I wouldn't play they card, I would not play it as a 4-of due to the fact you need your other pump spells to make it good. Having two invigorates in your hand, great, two berserks in your hand, not so great (as in thats the only two pump in your hand)
Bounty of the hunt- Originally had it in the deck, because as I though, hey free +3/+3 means more easy quick wins. The issue is the card runs into a problem. Even with over 50% green cards, there were very few times I could alt cast the card. green creatures are being played, invigorate and vines are better pumps. As I said I added Cystbearer to the deck because it was green, and why putrafax is in the deck over Skyteriyx (though I would play neither in legacy) The other issue was it was straight up card disadvantage. you empty your had very quickly with this deck and you end up having to normal cast the card because you have no cards to pitch to it. in which case something like Wild Might is just better.
Rancor, Great card. The trample is highly relevant, and just leads to blowouts. Plus it is the one cards that can be used over and over again.
Jitte- was going to put in the deck as we all know how broken it is. But then going through my binder,
Livewire Lash- I believe is strictly better in this deck
First it doesn't require me to actually do combat damage to activate. you have enough spells that you can activate it. If you need to deal damage to a player, you can, if you need to kill a creature to get that last counters in you can. Plus +2/+0 helps a lot. I highly suggest this card.
Why I came in 88th
Well I went 3-0 in the first three rounds, and before you say it was because I played bad players, lets put it this way, you know they winner of the the SCG Open? notice how he only has 21 points after 8 rounds? Notice who he played in round 3 and the result. Well maybe he was just lucky.
Anyway, round 4 I lost in the feature match, and maybe I could of played better, but I do know if he played progentius instead of emerakul either of those games, he lost the following turn. Can your deck beat turn two emerakul?
Round 5, got paired up against ANT, and maybe I played a play error, but according to my friend, the guy toped deck the swamp he needed to go off the turn he did, against dead the following turn.
So then I was 3-2, I could of played it out to try and get a higher place, but I had to get home to turn in an assignement for midnight, and forgot DST ended, oh well.
Match up wise though.
Round one was against Dark Horizons and won 2-1
Round two 2-0 merfolk ( he did get a game loss for deck error, but in testing, infect is favored against merfolk, your clock is just faster than theirs, and ichorclaw myr kills with every single merfolk 1-on-1)
Round 3 was 2-1 against Survival. The deck just lacks removal to deal with your deck.
game two he mulls to 5, fun fact, I lost that game
Game three, I mull to 5, fun fact, I won that game.
Against creature based decks, your creatures are just more efficient, now a 1/1 is not stronger than a 2/2 in a fight, but a 1/1 on turn 1 that only has to do 10 damage, versus a 2/2 on turn 2/3 that needs to do 20 damage , is what I'm referring to.
Combo decks are what your bad against as your not playing blue, and if you notice, I lost to two combo decks for my losses. So in conclusion I'm going to say this deck is really a meta call, if you have more creature based combo decks, survival/merfolk I'd say play this deck. A more combo field, well this deck can go off almost just as fast, but becuse you lack blue you have no disruption outside mindbreak trap and duress in the board.
Notice that all the creatures cost 2 and have 1 power, and that all the pump spells pump for 4. This means that's always either 2 attacks + 2 pumps or 1 Attack + 1 Pump + 1 Berserk. Thoughtseize is also a very good t1 play. Also the fact that the curve tops out at two means that we get to run a total of 20 mana sources.
20 pumps spells and 16 creatures? that's asking for a world of hurt, my friend. I'd take out some of those maybe for something like 4x inquisition of kozilek, or add another 4 creatures, or something. You could try another thread's suggestion and maybe use some plunge into darkness.
I guess I should move my decklist in here instead of the other thread.
I am currently playing B/G Infect in local, weekly tournaments. My metagame has a little combo (ANT, and sometimes Belcher), dredge, Goblins, and Merfolk.
I would like to start by saying that I politely disagree with the proposed B/G Legacy infect decklists I have seen here and elseware; especially those containing Noble Heirarch, and any other non-infect creature. It is my opinion that the deck should be built as a fast and aggressive deck.
Plague Stinger, Ichorclaw Myr: These two are powerhouses. They are the best infect creatures that exist right now, in my opinion. An Ichorclaw with Rancor is one of the more terrifying things you can send at an opponent on Turn 2.
Necropede: I go back and forth on this guy. He's great to see against Goblins and Merfolk, but meh at all other times. He's a fantastic creature to sac to Plunge Into Darkness. I run 3-of but I am not convinced that this shouldn't be 4-of.
Ichor Rats: These guys are great to cast off a Dark Ritual on Turn 1, but they are kind of expensive for what they are-and-do, and I hope to find a replacement in February.
Eternal Witness: She's here to get back the Invigorate you played on turn-2. I am pleased with her in testing, but this week will be the first tournament run with her. Having an extra chump blocker is pretty great, and bringing back pump or a creature is essential to the deck should the game progress past turn 4 or 5.
Mana
I am not entirely confident in the mana base. I'm a cheap bastard and only have 3 Bayou. I am considering picking up some Misty Rainforest. You always want to be able to cast Invigorate for free. I actually think that Overgrown Tomb is the wrong land, but I have 4 of them, and no Misty Rainforest, so eh. It hasn't proven to be trouble. I go back-and-forth on land count. Last week I ran 18, this week I will run 17.
Accel: Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual. You really want a turn-1 creature. Really-really. Like, consider a mulligan if you have no turn-1 play (depending on opponent, of course). Post turn-3, the only thing they are usually good for is kicking Vampire's Bite, which isn't a bad use.
Vampire's Bite: +3 is great, and between lands, Plunge, and a priority for attack over blocking, this deck essentially burns life for speed. A kicked Bite is a good use for a late-draw Dark Ritual. I took a look at many other options, and I think this is the right option.
Disruption: I only have 1 Thoughtsieze, so that is what I run. I run Duress over Blackmail because I like seeing their hand.
Plunge Into Darkness
This card is the cornerstone of my deck. I have tried Night's Whisper/Sign In Blood, but this deck doesn't need card draw. It needs the right card on turn-3 or 4, and it probably doesn't matter how much life you pay to get it.
It is crucial to know that you do not need to chose the spell effect, or any values until the spell resolves. If someone counterspells or plays burn in response, you are not locked into losing life.
Plunge Into Darkness is essential to early-game, 'all in' wins, as well as late-game goldfishing. When you need to block, it's nice to be able to block, and then Plunge with Entwine to find a creature, pump, a Witness, or whatever you need next turn to go off.
I cut this to 3-of for a Witness slot. So far it's feeling like the right choice.
Cards that didn't make the cut
Rouse: This card is terrible. It's not 'free'; it takes up 4 card slots. It is not a mini-invigorate. Don't fool yourself into thinking it is.
Vines Of Vastwood: This card is really better on paper than it is in play. Really. I played with it in the deck for 2 weeks, and I was very happy to take it out. In a more green-heavy deck, I can see it being a shoe-in for inclusion, though. We will see what happens with the new batch of creatures.
Berserk: With mostly 1/1 creatures, this needs another card to be really useful. I can see running 1-of, especially with Plunge, but I don't have any.
Livewire Lash: I can see this being great on turn-5, but not before.
Blight Mamba: Regenerate is cool, but you can't cast it off a Dark Ritual.
Land Grant: I don't want to show my opponent my hand. This deck is explosive, and downright scary to play against; no reason to show your opponent what you are holding.
Pendelhaven: If I have a green land source, I need to be able to cast Invigorate for free off of it. Pendelhaven only applies to 3/4 of the creatures my build runs, and only if they didn't get Rancor (turn you play Rancor, of course, you can Pendelhaven pump...but only if you don't need that G to cast Rancor). I would run Swarmyard over Pendelhaven I think, but I don't think there is room for a non G/B source in the landbase. Just my opinion though.
Haste: I think dedicating slots to accel over haste is better. There are advantages/disadvantages to both approaches.
Sideboard
My sideboard is kind of hodge-podge. I am going to pick up some Engineered Plague to run instead of Infest I think. Hymn is fantastic, as always. Maelstrom Pulse is very useful, I used to have it mainboard but I decided to optimize mainboard for speed, and let the sideboard give the deck more depth/disruption.
Leyline against Dredge. Could be Extirpate but I don't have them. Mindbreak as a 1x against ANT. The strategy against ANT is to go for broke...may as well have something in there that will save your ass if you get an unlucky Plunge.
Closing Thoughts
I think Plunge-Infect has a lot of potential. I am really looking forward to some new creature choices. I keep my decklist updated here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/plunge-infect/
I wanted to mention again that I don't think that the other Infect builds are 'wrong', but I do believe that, for the current set of Infect creatures, a fast and aggressive deck is the most viable.
I would like to defend the 16 creatures, 20 pumps ratio. After a thoughtseize you usually win with one creature anyway, so you generally want 2-3 pumps on one guy, especially if you're holding vines
I agree with you about Thoughtseize (vs Goblins is an exception in my experience) however I would challenge you to approach this in mathematical terms.
Assuming a 60-card deck, and a 7-card opening hand, and playing first (ie no draw on turn 1)...
With 20 pump spells you have a 63% chance to see at least 3 pump spells by your 3rd-turn draw (second draw of the game).
With 16 pump + 3 Plunge you have a 59% chance to see at least 3 pump and/or Plunge by your 3rd turn draw. If you see 3x pump, great! If you see a Plunge instead of a pump, you then get to dig through X more cards.
Lets say you get 2 pump and a Plunge, and you Plunge for 7 during your 3rd turn main phase. Your library has 51 cards remaining, 14 pump, and 2 plunge. You have a 93% chance to see one (or more) pump spell with that Plunge.
So by cutting to 16 pump + 3 plunge, instead of 20 pump, you greatly increase your chances to see a 3rd pump by turn 3. Besides this, you have now greatly increased both the flexibility of the deck, as well as its ability to goldfish.
If mathematics and statistics interest you, please check out the hypergeometric distribution. Besides play-ability, this distribution *is* the game of Magic.
I may not understand magic or stats, but I do understand Murphy's Law! Draw cards and land search for the win if you want to avoid either of those situations! More seriously, though, I still think that more pump than critters is probably a bad idea. At least use a more permanent source of it, and livewire lash is possibly one of the best possible for it, though it's probably old at at this point!
Would some removal help this kind of deck something free that could remove blockers something like Snuff Out I was thinking of having a few in my sideborad for creature heavy decks like Zoo, Goblins, and Merfolk.
Maybe but it depends on how much of your SB you want to dedicate to it. You need E. Plague to deal with goblins; a targeted kill, or two, is not going to matter all that much. It may kill a Piledriver, but that will likely not save you in the end. That doesn't mean it's worthless, but if your goal is to combat Goblins/Fish (and only kind-of on Fish), I think you get more milage out of Engineered Plague.
I think that Diabolic Edictmay be the better choice because it will hit a fatty with protection. That being said, it gives choice, and may not do what you want it to do. My pick is Maelstrom Pulse in the side, because I didn't want to run something like Nature's Claim for artifact/enchantment hate, and then have targeted kill also. Your meta may vary. Mine is full of Belcher/ANT.
You should examine your goals, though. Realistically, if you want a budget Legacy deck, I would vote for Burn. If you just want to win, pick a better deck than this Personally, I like to win/lose on my own deck because that is what amuses me; solving a problem within constraints, and "kill by Poison" is my constraint. Infect is a weak deck, with occasional explosive strength. It needs a much richer creature selection for a chance to be truly viable. Until then, playing Infect is basically building a shell/playstyle around a deck which may never be viable.
Regarding statistics: I suggest that you both learn more about statistics, or at least make less foolish claims about their applications. A distribution is not invalid because of any specific occurrence. It tells you what will happen over a large number of games, not the specific one you are in. That does not mean that statistics are irrelevant to Magic.
Land counts are not numbers pulled out of a hat; they are based on statistics. Sometimes you get a mana flood, sometimes you see no more land besides your opening hand. That doesn't mean anyone says, "Screw it, I'll just run 16 lands and try to get lucky," or, "Well I'll run 27 lands just so I know I'll get one."
To put it another way: Casinos make money, always. It has nothing to do with "luck" or "Murphy's Law".
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4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Vector Asp
4 Blight Mamba
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Plague Stinger
3 Xantid Swarm
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Giant Growth
3 Vines of Vastwood
Strategy:
turn 1 - land,Vector Asp
turn 2 - land, Vector Asp's ability, Invigorate, Berserk
Need some help and suggestions.thanks
Might be magical xmas land, or it might just be the best idea ever
No Ichor Rats? Why?
No Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon? Why? I understand you're trying to keep the curve uber low... I still think it's worth including as a 1 or 2 of... maybe.
Would Bounty of the Hunt help get you there?
I was thinking Winter Orb were cheap enough to slow down the opposition. You could feed it as well as 12 of the creatures in the deck to Throne of Geth to throw in the last few poison counters.
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-2 giant growth
-1 rancor
-1 overgrown tomb
for a sideboard, I would start here and develop
3 snuff out vs zoo/fish
2 aether vial + 1defense grid +1 xantid swarm vs. anything heavy counter spells
4 thoughtseize + 2 duress vs. combo
1 nihil spellbomb + 1 tormod's crypt for dredge/reanimate/survivalvine
burn decks could be tough game 2 after they learn to nuke creatures as we cast them, not when we attack.
Also go up on the VoV. Great at evading removal.
Also you may want to think about adding a couple sylvan libraries in here for consistency.
How has this list been working for you? I'm currently mono green and I like it, but I do feel that Plague Stinger is good. Just not sure if splashing just for him is necessary.
I don't know if poisonous and Infect deal the same amount of poison counter.
For poisonous it says: Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player gets a poison counter(s). A player with ten or more poison counters loses the game.
For infect it says: This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.
Can somebody illuminate me?
Soul Sisters WB & The Gate B
Vial Knights W & Crucible Pox B
Faerie Stompy U & Burn R
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (21)
3 Ichorclaw Myr
3 Blight Mamba
3 Xantid Swarm
4 Plague Stinger
4 Necropede
4 Vector Asp
2 Sylvan Library
4 Lotus Petal
Pump Up (15)
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Berserk
4 Revigorate
2 Umezawa's Jitte
For the SB, Clownbaby suggestions are very good for now. I don't know what you guys think about this. If you got better ideas, post your lists!
*Edit*
I removed the two leftover Rancor for the more solid Jitte. Act as removal and give a better chance in the long run.
Soul Sisters WB & The Gate B
Vial Knights W & Crucible Pox B
Faerie Stompy U & Burn R
slivers will do damage, then the damaged player will get 1 poison counter for each sliver that dealt damage, not for each damage dealt. So no sliver isnt good.
Standard:
U/G TurboTitans
B/G TurboNixilis
Extended:
Preeminant Watch
RDW
(trying to hatch an Extended deck to abuse Emrakul...)
Legacy:
Vial Goblins mono red
Trisomy 21- Loam Control
EDH:
Brion Stoutarm- Fling Drazi
Rafiq of the Many Huge Show and Tell Dudes
Peasant:
MBC
Bant aggro
Funny you should say Bounty of the Hunt. I too have realized the card's power. A free Giant Growth may not look significant on the surface, but trust me when I say it's a HUGE advantage to have it free. One green mana is the difference from casting a Berserk x2, another pump spell, etc. A great card for the deck IMO. Especially a version with a low land count and Land Grant.
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 pendelhaven
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 overgrown tomb
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
3 Concordant Crossroads
4 Vector Asp
4 Plague Stinger
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
I like it because its got alot of OOPS i win to it.
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Also, Livewire Lash is way better than Jitte.
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I am the guy in that article, and would like to give some input on the card choices in the deck.
Yes it was a budget deck, but at the same time, I really only want bayous in the deck, to make the mana base
X4 Bayou
X4 Overgrown Battlement
X4 Verdant Catacomb
X2 Swamp
X2 Forest
X1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgamoth
17 seems very low, but between hierarch, and the fact you only need 2 lands to go off (with sometimes the chance to go off on land) it helps a lot.
To the decks running more fetches, you don't need the misty. The thinning is great, but the life loss is key. In round 4 of the feature match, If I played the basic in my hand instead of the Shockland game two, I think I had Emerakul outraced, but I still need to watch that replay to see what was in his hand, other than that, yes you get to go off turns 2-4 and so life doesn't really matter, but the fetch land is too much. Also you do need some basics. While I told people that I personally love being wastelanded (how many decks can say that) because if keeps them off mana, and as I said you only need one land once you go off, In round one game two, lets just say trying to race 3 gofy's and a knight of the req with 0 lands in play is not happening.
Next is the creature.
Ichorclaw myr and Plague stingers are the best cards in the deck. the former can kill basically any creature and stinger has flying. Heirarch is used as mana ramp and exalted.
To the people saying Virlent Silver and Vector Asp are bad, have you tried playing with them? Any game where I went turn one either of them I basically one. And they are quite key against ANT. In one round, I played against ANT, and the fact they deal COMBAT damage was key in making sure they weren't at 20 life for Ad nasseum. Virlent doing both is a bonus, Asp giving you a choice is key in seeing if your oppenent block is.
Also very rarely do I cast hierach turn 1, asp and sliver are almost never dazed, hierach is. Plus attacking on turn two with the exalted bonus helps towards those turn 3/4 wins.
Putrafax is Horrible, I had in in the deck originally as late game reach, and had Bounty of the Hunt in the deck as well (more on that later) but you never get to 5 mana, and while it may in 1 out of 20 games, it either is not resolving or the game is over before that (remember you are only running 17 lands).
Cystbearer is also in the deck from when I had Bounty in the deck. The deck is very easy to play around daze with, and cystbearer doesn't help, hence why you only have two, but the 3 toughness is key in a lot of combat steps and turn 2 bear off a hierarch is the strongest play you can do. Doesn't happen often, but against any creature deck, you are most likely going to win the race.
Necropede is just horrible. 2 mana for a 1/1 that does nothing. If your creatures are going to the graveyard you are losing. I'd rather have a pump spell then pede in my deck, and that is exactly what I did.
Elvish spirit guide- I thought about putting in this deck as turn 1 any two drop is just huge, but what do you remove for it? Land? your running low as it is, and you need the land types in play to make sure you can cast your "free" spells. Creatures? your pump is pointless on no creatures, just not worth it. Spells? trade your pump spells for a card that only produces mana is pretty weak. Your pumps are already cheap enough/free, and I'd rather have a +4/+4 then +1 green per turn.
Now for the pumps
Invigorate- pretty self explanatory, +4/+4 for them to gain a basically irrelevant 3 life auto in.
Rouse- again free spell is free , why didn't I run four? Didn't own 4.
Vines of Vastwood- probably the most important spell. Making sure you are safe from a Swords to Plowshares is very relevant, the fact it boosts is just gravy, but very relevant gravy.
Tainted Strike- ever attack for 9 poison counters with a Noble Hierarch alone? I have, and it is great, but on a more relevant side, it makes your vector asps and Virulent Slivers that the much better. When Virulent Sliver does 3 poison counter on one attack (2 infect damage, 1 Poisonous trigger) it adds up. And while I have not had to do this yet, a Darkness a creature can be the difference between a win and a loss.
Wild Might- I need a pump spell, and this was the best I found. +5/+5 for two mana is very good. Why not Groundswell? Can't guarantee Landfall. Giant Growth, not big enough pump, etc. It was the best I found. That being said, it is also the weakest card in the deck following Putrafax.
Beserk- ah this card, why didn't I play this card? Two reason, first reason budget, just didn't own them, and it is not really needed. But as I told Stark, I don't like the card. Yes it allows you to have a turn two win. But my issue with the card is that you need other cards to make it good. By itself making your 1/1 into a 2/1 trample is not impressive. It is already bad enough you need to reply on creature + pump spells just asking to get 2 for 1'ed, but when a card needs a creature + a pump + itself, well hello there 3 for 1. Not that is not to say I have not played 4 pump spells on a creature to win the game, I'm just saying having a card that requires that situation I just don;t agree on. The next issue is the sac effect on the card. Now if your going to win that turn, it is not relevant, but in some matches (merfolk especially) it will come down to you bashing with an irchorclaw myr and forcing them to trade with lords. Power versus consistancy. Though If I were to play this deck again,I would probably trade both wild might and putrafax for berserk, so its not like I wouldn't play they card, I would not play it as a 4-of due to the fact you need your other pump spells to make it good. Having two invigorates in your hand, great, two berserks in your hand, not so great (as in thats the only two pump in your hand)
Bounty of the hunt- Originally had it in the deck, because as I though, hey free +3/+3 means more easy quick wins. The issue is the card runs into a problem. Even with over 50% green cards, there were very few times I could alt cast the card. green creatures are being played, invigorate and vines are better pumps. As I said I added Cystbearer to the deck because it was green, and why putrafax is in the deck over Skyteriyx (though I would play neither in legacy) The other issue was it was straight up card disadvantage. you empty your had very quickly with this deck and you end up having to normal cast the card because you have no cards to pitch to it. in which case something like Wild Might is just better.
Rancor, Great card. The trample is highly relevant, and just leads to blowouts. Plus it is the one cards that can be used over and over again.
Jitte- was going to put in the deck as we all know how broken it is. But then going through my binder,
Livewire Lash- I believe is strictly better in this deck
First it doesn't require me to actually do combat damage to activate. you have enough spells that you can activate it. If you need to deal damage to a player, you can, if you need to kill a creature to get that last counters in you can. Plus +2/+0 helps a lot. I highly suggest this card.
Why I came in 88th
Well I went 3-0 in the first three rounds, and before you say it was because I played bad players, lets put it this way, you know they winner of the the SCG Open? notice how he only has 21 points after 8 rounds? Notice who he played in round 3 and the result. Well maybe he was just lucky.
Anyway, round 4 I lost in the feature match, and maybe I could of played better, but I do know if he played progentius instead of emerakul either of those games, he lost the following turn. Can your deck beat turn two emerakul?
Round 5, got paired up against ANT, and maybe I played a play error, but according to my friend, the guy toped deck the swamp he needed to go off the turn he did, against dead the following turn.
So then I was 3-2, I could of played it out to try and get a higher place, but I had to get home to turn in an assignement for midnight, and forgot DST ended, oh well.
Match up wise though.
Round one was against Dark Horizons and won 2-1
Round two 2-0 merfolk ( he did get a game loss for deck error, but in testing, infect is favored against merfolk, your clock is just faster than theirs, and ichorclaw myr kills with every single merfolk 1-on-1)
Round 3 was 2-1 against Survival. The deck just lacks removal to deal with your deck.
game two he mulls to 5, fun fact, I lost that game
Game three, I mull to 5, fun fact, I won that game.
Against creature based decks, your creatures are just more efficient, now a 1/1 is not stronger than a 2/2 in a fight, but a 1/1 on turn 1 that only has to do 10 damage, versus a 2/2 on turn 2/3 that needs to do 20 damage , is what I'm referring to.
Combo decks are what your bad against as your not playing blue, and if you notice, I lost to two combo decks for my losses. So in conclusion I'm going to say this deck is really a meta call, if you have more creature based combo decks, survival/merfolk I'd say play this deck. A more combo field, well this deck can go off almost just as fast, but becuse you lack blue you have no disruption outside mindbreak trap and duress in the board.
Just a run down on the deck I played
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
Here is my build
4 hand of praetors
4 ichorclaw myr
4 plague stinger
4 Necropede
4 Ichor Rats
3 Putrefax
4 groundswell
4 rancor
4 vines of the vastwood
4 Blight Mamba
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Plague Stinger
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 berserk
4 Invigorate
2 stonewood invocation
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
5 forest
3 swamp
Standard
BWBeyond LivingBW
Modern
WWSoul SistersWW
4 Blight Mob
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Invigorate
4 Berserk
4 Vines Of Vastwood
4 Might Of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Thoughtseize
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Notice that all the creatures cost 2 and have 1 power, and that all the pump spells pump for 4. This means that's always either 2 attacks + 2 pumps or 1 Attack + 1 Pump + 1 Berserk. Thoughtseize is also a very good t1 play. Also the fact that the curve tops out at two means that we get to run a total of 20 mana sources.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I am currently playing B/G Infect in local, weekly tournaments. My metagame has a little combo (ANT, and sometimes Belcher), dredge, Goblins, and Merfolk.
I would like to start by saying that I politely disagree with the proposed B/G Legacy infect decklists I have seen here and elseware; especially those containing Noble Heirarch, and any other non-infect creature. It is my opinion that the deck should be built as a fast and aggressive deck.
Plunge-Infect Decklist:
5x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bayou
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Forest
4x Dark Ritual
3x Plunge into Darkness
4x Invigorate
4x Vampire's Bite
3x Necropede
4x Plague Stinger
4x Ichor Rats
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
4x Lotus Petal
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Infest
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Mindbreak Trap
Card Choices
Creatures:
Plague Stinger, Ichorclaw Myr: These two are powerhouses. They are the best infect creatures that exist right now, in my opinion. An Ichorclaw with Rancor is one of the more terrifying things you can send at an opponent on Turn 2.
Necropede: I go back and forth on this guy. He's great to see against Goblins and Merfolk, but meh at all other times. He's a fantastic creature to sac to Plunge Into Darkness. I run 3-of but I am not convinced that this shouldn't be 4-of.
Ichor Rats: These guys are great to cast off a Dark Ritual on Turn 1, but they are kind of expensive for what they are-and-do, and I hope to find a replacement in February.
Eternal Witness: She's here to get back the Invigorate you played on turn-2. I am pleased with her in testing, but this week will be the first tournament run with her. Having an extra chump blocker is pretty great, and bringing back pump or a creature is essential to the deck should the game progress past turn 4 or 5.
Mana
I am not entirely confident in the mana base. I'm a cheap bastard and only have 3 Bayou. I am considering picking up some Misty Rainforest. You always want to be able to cast Invigorate for free. I actually think that Overgrown Tomb is the wrong land, but I have 4 of them, and no Misty Rainforest, so eh. It hasn't proven to be trouble. I go back-and-forth on land count. Last week I ran 18, this week I will run 17.
Accel: Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual. You really want a turn-1 creature. Really-really. Like, consider a mulligan if you have no turn-1 play (depending on opponent, of course). Post turn-3, the only thing they are usually good for is kicking Vampire's Bite, which isn't a bad use.
Instant/Sorcery
Invigorate, Rancor: Not much to say here.
Vampire's Bite: +3 is great, and between lands, Plunge, and a priority for attack over blocking, this deck essentially burns life for speed. A kicked Bite is a good use for a late-draw Dark Ritual. I took a look at many other options, and I think this is the right option.
Disruption: I only have 1 Thoughtsieze, so that is what I run. I run Duress over Blackmail because I like seeing their hand.
Plunge Into Darkness
This card is the cornerstone of my deck. I have tried Night's Whisper/Sign In Blood, but this deck doesn't need card draw. It needs the right card on turn-3 or 4, and it probably doesn't matter how much life you pay to get it.
It is crucial to know that you do not need to chose the spell effect, or any values until the spell resolves. If someone counterspells or plays burn in response, you are not locked into losing life.
Plunge Into Darkness is essential to early-game, 'all in' wins, as well as late-game goldfishing. When you need to block, it's nice to be able to block, and then Plunge with Entwine to find a creature, pump, a Witness, or whatever you need next turn to go off.
I cut this to 3-of for a Witness slot. So far it's feeling like the right choice.
Cards that didn't make the cut
Rouse: This card is terrible. It's not 'free'; it takes up 4 card slots. It is not a mini-invigorate. Don't fool yourself into thinking it is.
Vines Of Vastwood: This card is really better on paper than it is in play. Really. I played with it in the deck for 2 weeks, and I was very happy to take it out. In a more green-heavy deck, I can see it being a shoe-in for inclusion, though. We will see what happens with the new batch of creatures.
Berserk: With mostly 1/1 creatures, this needs another card to be really useful. I can see running 1-of, especially with Plunge, but I don't have any.
Livewire Lash: I can see this being great on turn-5, but not before.
Blight Mamba: Regenerate is cool, but you can't cast it off a Dark Ritual.
Land Grant: I don't want to show my opponent my hand. This deck is explosive, and downright scary to play against; no reason to show your opponent what you are holding.
Pendelhaven: If I have a green land source, I need to be able to cast Invigorate for free off of it. Pendelhaven only applies to 3/4 of the creatures my build runs, and only if they didn't get Rancor (turn you play Rancor, of course, you can Pendelhaven pump...but only if you don't need that G to cast Rancor). I would run Swarmyard over Pendelhaven I think, but I don't think there is room for a non G/B source in the landbase. Just my opinion though.
Haste: I think dedicating slots to accel over haste is better. There are advantages/disadvantages to both approaches.
Sideboard
My sideboard is kind of hodge-podge. I am going to pick up some Engineered Plague to run instead of Infest I think. Hymn is fantastic, as always. Maelstrom Pulse is very useful, I used to have it mainboard but I decided to optimize mainboard for speed, and let the sideboard give the deck more depth/disruption.
Leyline against Dredge. Could be Extirpate but I don't have them. Mindbreak as a 1x against ANT. The strategy against ANT is to go for broke...may as well have something in there that will save your ass if you get an unlucky Plunge.
Closing Thoughts
I think Plunge-Infect has a lot of potential. I am really looking forward to some new creature choices. I keep my decklist updated here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/plunge-infect/
I wanted to mention again that I don't think that the other Infect builds are 'wrong', but I do believe that, for the current set of Infect creatures, a fast and aggressive deck is the most viable.
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Assuming a 60-card deck, and a 7-card opening hand, and playing first (ie no draw on turn 1)...
With 20 pump spells you have a 63% chance to see at least 3 pump spells by your 3rd-turn draw (second draw of the game).
With 16 pump + 3 Plunge you have a 59% chance to see at least 3 pump and/or Plunge by your 3rd turn draw. If you see 3x pump, great! If you see a Plunge instead of a pump, you then get to dig through X more cards.
Lets say you get 2 pump and a Plunge, and you Plunge for 7 during your 3rd turn main phase. Your library has 51 cards remaining, 14 pump, and 2 plunge. You have a 93% chance to see one (or more) pump spell with that Plunge.
So by cutting to 16 pump + 3 plunge, instead of 20 pump, you greatly increase your chances to see a 3rd pump by turn 3. Besides this, you have now greatly increased both the flexibility of the deck, as well as its ability to goldfish.
If mathematics and statistics interest you, please check out the hypergeometric distribution. Besides play-ability, this distribution *is* the game of Magic.
You can plan for anything, but it will NEVER fail, that the one time you need any spell, is the one time you will draw 5 of your 17 lands in a row.
Magic is the one thing that makes stats extra-worthless.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I think that Diabolic Edict may be the better choice because it will hit a fatty with protection. That being said, it gives choice, and may not do what you want it to do. My pick is Maelstrom Pulse in the side, because I didn't want to run something like Nature's Claim for artifact/enchantment hate, and then have targeted kill also. Your meta may vary. Mine is full of Belcher/ANT.
You should examine your goals, though. Realistically, if you want a budget Legacy deck, I would vote for Burn. If you just want to win, pick a better deck than this Personally, I like to win/lose on my own deck because that is what amuses me; solving a problem within constraints, and "kill by Poison" is my constraint. Infect is a weak deck, with occasional explosive strength. It needs a much richer creature selection for a chance to be truly viable. Until then, playing Infect is basically building a shell/playstyle around a deck which may never be viable.
Regarding statistics: I suggest that you both learn more about statistics, or at least make less foolish claims about their applications. A distribution is not invalid because of any specific occurrence. It tells you what will happen over a large number of games, not the specific one you are in. That does not mean that statistics are irrelevant to Magic.
Land counts are not numbers pulled out of a hat; they are based on statistics. Sometimes you get a mana flood, sometimes you see no more land besides your opening hand. That doesn't mean anyone says, "Screw it, I'll just run 16 lands and try to get lucky," or, "Well I'll run 27 lands just so I know I'll get one."
To put it another way: Casinos make money, always. It has nothing to do with "luck" or "Murphy's Law".