leering emblem is slow. and you need a lot of instant spells to convert to a +2/+2.
the original list is better, the one on the first page. but i dont run black. bant colors might be a good idea, using exalted abilities to pump up your creatures with infect is not so bad.
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I put together a build for legacy infect today and feel it's a very quick deck and with light removal in the current format could really work. A card I feel that I don't see being considered is crop rotation turn one U can use it to grab an inkmoth nexus which could give you a turn 2 creature for a kill or just gets you some early attacks
I don't like Crop Rotation here. Especially turn 1, you are open to the very real possibility it gets countered or the Nexus Wasted and you begin turn 2 with no land, no permanents, and a 5 card hand. That might be OK if you're playing control, or at least a somewhat more flexible deck, but not here. Most builds I've seen don't have many excess lands, so, IMHO, it's better to just play a basic land and Thoughtseize, Vector Asp, or Noble Hierarch turn 1. And whatever you take out for Rotation will almost certainly be a better top deck later on.
Discard is quite good to lead with actually. You don't want to drop your threat into control or removal. I personally run duress, but thoughtseize and inquisition are just as good if not better. I sacrificed a turn 1 dude for a little more consistency. Now the average is turn 3-4 win, but you can power through control and removal.
@Crusader
Personally I don't think he is worth it as BB is pretty difficult to achieve if you're not running dark rituals. I think a turn 5 win is also quite slow. Stick with the colorless and green dudes for the most part. I run 15 dudes and 3 inkmoth, so in essence I have 18 dudes and 20 pumps. I feel like this is a pretty good balance and have good results in testing.
Well, I just had the best and worst tournament of my life. I was 1 play away from 4-0, but I am dumb.
Round 1 vs ???
I feel bad playing against guys like this in legacy. He had a pile of cards that had some colors in common, but I think it was basically just some red and black Shadowmoor and Shards cards. Aphotic Wisps was in there, and a Graven Cairns, and a demigod of Revenge was discarded at some point, but I basically ran him right over.
2-0, 1-0
Round 2 vs ???
Each game he led off with a Mishra's Factory, I led off each game with a Vector Asp and a fist full of pumps. Game 1 was over in 3 turns, game 2 was 2 turns. I have to say he was the worst loser I have ever encountered in any endeavor in my life. After he scooped up from game 2, he just kept ranting about how lucky I was, how unlucky he was, and how my deck epic fails if it doesn't win. He threw down his major tech to deal with me, a couple big game hunters(?!). What a tool.
2-0, 2-0
Round 3 vs Merfolk
Finally. A real deck against a real player. Game 1 he countered my first couple things, but I stuck a Plague Stinger. He misplayed a bit then by hard casting a Coralhelm Cmmander rather than Vialing it in when he had it on 2. By doing that, he couldn't level it into flight mode, and I was able to sting him to death next turn. Game 2 I kept an extremely shaky hand of 2 lands, 3 Dark Rit, Ichorclaw Myr and Vector Asp. My turn 1 Rit got Dazed, but the next turn I got it, but the Myr was Forced, and the Asp landed. He got out his Commander and then a Lord of Atlantis. We settled into a long game of try and counter, but eventually I assembled a force of Hierarchs and pumps and busted through.
2-0, 3-0
Round 4 vs D&T
Game 1 I run over him in 3 or 4 turns. Game 2 I side in a couple Needles and a K-grip, but see neither and I take my first loss, largely due to Umezawa's Jitte. Man, never let that thing get counters. Mulling to 5 didn't help, but I couldn't get anything going after a first turn Thoughtseize. Game 3 i kept a shake hand with no infecters, which may have been a mistake hunt I didn't want to start dropping cards on the play. Luckily I drew an Asp by the second turn, and I was in business. then came the play which will haunt me for a while. After fighting through some removal with Vines and Invigorates, in had all the tools in hand. I start mu main phase with Asp, Hierarch and 4 lands in play, Rancor, Groundswell, Vines, Kiss, and Berserk in hand. He only has Qasali Pridemage to block with, no cards in hand. I put Rancor on the Asp and attack. Exalted resolves. I play Kiss, it resolves. I play Groundswell, it resolves. At 7 power, I figure to just Berserk for the win. It resolves. He blocks. He just shrugs and says 'take 12' and I start gathering up my stuff when I realize I didn't turn on infect on the asp. So I lay my board back out, feeling things going slightly sideways. I had been so preoccupied with Vines for when he popped the Pridemage that I totally forgot to pay the one critical black. However, he's at 5 life, then fetches down to 4, and I can theoretically kill him with regular damage the next turn after replaying Rancor on the Hierarch. Sadly, he top decks a Jitte, equips it, and gets counters on it, so he can knock out and creature I play, which he proceeds to do. I don't give up, trying to draw out any of my anti-artifact cards or new threats, but its just not there.
1-2, 3-1, good for 3rd out of 24, so close to first.
Thanks for sharing, mistercakes! So 25 lands, huh? Seems like a bunch of lands to many to me, but apparently it works. Could you tell us more about why you're running that many lands (instead of Lotus Petal and 2/2-add-G-when-removing-guy)?
i've seen a lot of people running crusader, but the double black is not the easiest to get. you can try to modify the deck by adding another fetch, but i'm not sure what i would cut. the pendelhavens are extremely strong. it's possible the hierarchs aren't necessary and the deck could run another fetch over 1 and then u can maindeck 1 crusader to up the infect count.
Ever considered 1-2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for that? Seems like a great land for this deck nevertheless.
Hello Everyone, I played this deck yesterday at a providence GPT. went 6-0 in the swiss only to lose in the semifinals (and missing my 3 byes by a match). It was a 45 person.
R1:Zoo 2-0
R2:Stax 2-0
R3:CounterTop 2-1
R4:Team America 2-1
R5:Eldrazi Post 2-0
R6:Metalworker 2-1
QF:Zoo 2-1
SF:Team America 0-2 ( James Rynkiewicz got his revenge for Boston)
Few notes before I go. I felt like I was playing with a 5 card sideboard. Almost every match I didn't side board a single card. Granted Mindbreak trap and Exterpaites were for ANT and Dredge, which I played against neither, and should be in the board regardless. I never wanted to board duress is (but again for the ANT matchup) E-plague was for merfolk and golbins, seal of doom was for show and tell, yet were board in for Countertop for the peacekeeper e boarded in. SB needs a lot of help.
So I see 4 overgrown tomb but 3 Bayou. Obviously some budget decisions were made. Would love to know which cards were not first pick in this list had how they preformed.
I'm currently running a more combo oriented version of the deck with less creatures more acell, and running bounty of the hunt. Been thinking about rouse over it but bounty + berserk does seem to hit a sweet spot off a crusader.
Sideboard is a tough call. I like the singleton emrakul. Mindbreak trap is excellent against your one matchup, but not so great against others, and then to put that on top of 4 extirpate seems a bit much. Would consider some thoughtsieze instead, especially since you run some rituals maindeck and they are generically more useful. Pithing needle is also pretty great, as it can deal with some rouge combo decks or whatnot here and there but also is really good at turning off aether vial. Engineered Plague seems useful only in matches that you already have the upper hand on, so maybe thats cutable. I think the big card you should consider is Autumn's Veil. Against Fish is a 1 mana green counterspell with what may amount to a silence built in. Also protects your buffed dudes from Go for the Throat, bounce spells, etc.
More details on the matches would be much appreciated.
budget kinda came into reasoning, and you nailed it I'm missing a bayou, which I think atm is replacing a tomb, but I'm thinking it may replace a Misty rainforest, need some more testing (or even the lone forest, though not having a path mana seems bad)
I used to run bounty, but the issue is that its card disdavtage, and I don't have a lot of green spells.
If I have invigorate , why pitch it for bounty if I can cast it anyway (rarely can you not)
If I have vines, vines is there for swords and bolt protection, but something i don't want to pitch away
If I have berserk, I'm pitching a card I don't want to pitch.
Hierarch, exalted helps you too much to pitch.
bird-only card I think I'm willing to pitch, but turn 1 its being casted.
Rouse is choosen because it is free.
If you notice my pump spells are free or very good. Sure might of krosa and ground swell are +4/+4 but it costs to much. you vines is expensive, but the shroud is very much needed.
X2 beserk seems like a budget thing, but I believe the deck only needs 2. Yes berserk gives you wins, but if you ever playtest, I think you notice (with the excpetion of rouse) you normally go from 1/1 to 10/10 anyway. Now it is a little akward to go 1/1 -> inviograte X2 to only do 9 infect, but lets look at potential combos
invigorate + invigorate
Invigorate + berserk
rouse + berserk
berserk + berserk
Double berserk doesn't win games, and excluding rouse, berserk gives you the win with vines or invigorate
because I run exalted, most times my 1/1 is a 2/2, so double +4/+4 is lethal by itself. You need berserk, but only need to see one per game, multiples don't help at all.
So budget wise, all I'm missing is bayou, and while some disagree with my berserk number, I think it is fine where it is.
I didn't keep details on my matches, but I can try an give some details
Zoo: Basically this comes from having crusader and a flyer. You need crusader on the ground to stop attacks, and then use the flyer to infect. I use pump spell moderatly, and go for the kill if they are tapped out, or if you vines to protect it. Patients is what is needed in this matchup. Outside gofy, their creatures can't come even close to touching crusader. Now some of my opponents did make play errors attacking their 3/3 nacatl into crusader not realzing that first strike infect makes it a 1/1, but that does come with the fact your playing a "rouge" deck. One of my games, I had the win on turn 5 if I played all my creatures in my hand and went all in for it, but I elected to play the safe game that I was going to win anyway. So my advise in this matchup, don't over extend. While you will have games were you just win, with swords and bolts, lots of chances of getting blow out. With crusader on the field, their one out is jitte, but then your out is corrupter. This deck will basically auto lose to turn 1 crusader (though turn 5 crusader is also hard for them to beat as well)
Can't really say much about my stax matchup
game 1 we both mull to six, he goes turn 1 flagstones
I go turn one rit into crusader
he goes turn 2 ancient tomb crusicle
I go turn 2 pump win
Games 2 he mulls to 4 while I again have turn 1 crusader.
Counter top. Back when I was playtesting for boston, this was very bad as they had firespout. With crusader and inkmoth, firespout is less of a problem. But game 1 I belive I had turn 2 crusader off a birds and he had only a top. and was dead on turn 3. Game two, I didn't know they had peacekeeper and just lost because I had no removal. so game three I bring in seal of dooms and e-plague, which asctually were useful.
I had turn one vector asp and turn 2 hierarch, but had no access to black mana, so I started bashing for 3. I get him to 14 and the plays the stiffle 12/12 combo. I procede to seal of doom it, and he swords it in response. so damage route is gone as he has 2 mishra factorie's in play. I get a crusader on the field. he misplays into attacking into crusader (against first strike stuff) I force him to tapout and counter my e-plague (that was going to name cleric if is resolves making his only out dead) he countered, and I proceded to invigorate berserk for the win. (by the way now that I think about it, my record for game 1 poison is 0->18 against zoo). Basically early presure against this deck is its down fall (which this deck just happens to do)
Team America- This match up is really hard. you can't beat late game as their bob's are basically free, terravore is huge, gofy is huge (btw rancor is an enchantment-6/7 gofys are not fun) Hymm is a card you just sometimes lose to, which I lost to in the finals, but I think I could of muligan better (but then hymm just hurts me even harder so who knows) Against the swiss deck, I had a conversation with him before hand (not realizing I was going to play him) and talked about that forcing the turn 1 vector asp is the correct play(still do in fact) and he procudes to force it (he was dead on turn 2 otherwise [even with him having force]) but I had another creature and his hymm hit some pump spells, but I still had more and beat him. The problem is they have so much removal. The advatage is they need perfect removal for you, they need go for the throat for crusader, and they need something else for myr and asp. Just happened james had the one of smother for my deck as well. This may sound stupid, but I truely think I want to try Virulent Wound in the sideboard. Bob gives them so much advantageous, and gives a size boot of killing step lynx in zoo while giving them 1 poison counter, giving that 1/1 +4/+4 X2 actually lethal instead of needed three pump spells, exalted, or another attack. Just a thought.
Exldrazi post- They dont interact with you for 3 turns, you can win on turn 3. I feel this a favored matchup. though in game 1 of out match, supposedly the guys was going to have emerakul on turn 4 (except I Viridian Corrupter his candle thing, buying me the one turn I needed.
Metalworker
Game one, Turn 3 he is at 7 poison with lethal next turn, he rips an artifact to go infinte with his staff thing.
Game two he dies on turn 3.
Game three was very awkward (I'll put it this way, I won using birds of paradise)He keeps double ancient tomb but gets stalled. while I have turn one hierarch. then he plays phreixan revoker naming hierarch. Which keeps me off three mana forever. But I start getting in for 1 a turn, and his life is getting low off tombs and hierarch. Eventually he get a forgemaster out, key,metalworker. And he said he misplayed, but ends up sacing everything but the forgemaster for a myr battlesphere. Since revoekr is gone, I can then cast the Viridian Corrupter that was in my hand the whole time killing the forgemaster. But he missreader the board state and doesn't attack for a turn.(i had crusader, corrupter and hierarch on baord, and I was at 8, so i think the math allowed to attack, get blocked and fling some myrs at me, but I'm not sure. But that one turn allows me to cast birds of paradise (he by the way is a 2 life at this time with 6 poison counters) he the attacks me down to 4, and then attack with birds, using vines of vastwood kicked for the win. awkward game. But it does bring up the lesson, just because you are playing infect doesn't mean you can ignore thier life total.(which it part of the reson vector asp i think is great in the deck) against a deck like ANT turn 1 asp, turn 2 rancor, attack not giving it infect is actually better against that deck as life total matters. something to keep in mind.
So I got lucky in some matches that my opponents misplayed into attacking into crusader, but in the two matches it happened, it did not matter. And possibly lucky my opponents mulliganed- but that being said, this deck can mulligan to 4 and still have a turn 2 win, so part of the nature of the deck. I think I misplayed during my semifinals match by not muliguning, into a combo fast hand, even knowing I was playing against team america, but I will never know, playing around hymm and force is not the easiest thing to do.
Also one last thing about dark ritual, I rank the turn 1 plays as follows
1)forest vector asp - if i have swamp,invigorate and berserk in hand (aka turn 2 win)
2)dark rit crusader
3)noble hierarch with two swamps in hand
4)birds of paradise with only one black source in hand
5)noble hierarch with only one black soruce in hand
6)vector asp
If you notice the hands are ranked based on how fast crusader can hit the battlefield. Dark rit allows for it, so I highly suggest in the deck, but i feel only 2 is needed, you don't want multiples, and turn 1 crusader is not always needed, it is just sweet when it does happen.
Well not only that, just looking at your list it seems like you had a lot of blowouts against people not ready for a T1 crusader.
I get the whole Noble Hierarch thing, but Noble Hierarch can't make black Mana and if you get hit by sinkhole or wasteland T1 your not hitting your T2 crusader and may be in a bad spot for mana. Would probably say ritual would be better in that slot.
Also I would say you need at a minimum 1 forest and 1 swamp maindeck. You want a land off a path without a doubt, and having a black mana that can't be wasted is a huge deal cause otherwise you may be held off of your crusaders for the game.
Lastly, I think sideboarding natures claim is a good call. For one mana it deals with jitte, swords, manabond, etc, and you do not care what their life total is. Krosan grip has its uses but one green mana is a damn strong deal. In an enchantment heavy meta you would want to consider Reverent silence.
The issue with the swamp, is that it is such a bad draw. It might be my build as well granted, but even urborg byitself is so bad as it stops hierarch,birds,pump spells, corrupter.
Same does for dark rit. As I said, multiples are bad, and if your playing around daze... that is exactly why there are 5 mana dorks, to play around daze. once you go turn one hierarch/birds, it is almost impossible for you to be dazed. and again, my build is more green heavy, so the extra black most times just goes to waste (not to say I haven't used rit to cast a plague stinger and attack with an inkmoth nexus, outside crusader black is not needed. Also,( and this comment gives me a lot of glares as well) this deck wants to be wastelanded. Wasteland is only good when you have pressure. If you spend your turn wastelanding me, you time walked yourself, while I have something on board, either hierarch or vector asp. They can't afford to wasteland early game as your too fast. As for sinkhole, how many decks are playing sink hole? But if even all that you are still afraid of black denial, change the hierarchs for birds and the bird for hierarch. Also, turn 2 crusader is great, but its not like it is needed, as i said I couldn't cast my crusader till turn 5 against zoo, and it won me that game. plague stinger and ichorclasw myr are perfectly good 2 drops, and if you have a hierarch, 1 invigorate + 1 vines is still lethal on turn 3 (with daze backup on all the spells). Also the deck has 7 (should be 8) swamp/forests, they have at most 4 wastelands, color is rarly the issue, and you only have 40 slots, you can add two dark rituals, but then what do you remove?
I can't comment on SB as my Sb was not helpful, but as I said most slots were for decks I didn't face, If I faces ANT, MBT would be sided in, if I faced Dredge, Exterpaite would be sided in, etc. My biggest issue with cards like nature's claim, grip, etc. The deck really doesn't care about jitte,swords, or mana bound. They are dead before many of them go active anyway, and if they do get active, drawing your answer card won't save you. Mindbreak Trap and exterpaite, when casted correctly, most of the time give you the win. Sometimes your dead anyway, but then how does it differ from having the force/stiffle or not having it, sometimes ANT wins through it anyway. Killing a jitte, means they still have creatures on the board you need to deal with, its not a helpful answer card. Cards that kill peacekeeper, maze of ith, moat (though not as much as a problem has you have fliers) tabernacle, things that stop you from winning are what you need. On one hand you are a creature deck and you have combat interactions, on the otherhand, you have IMO one of the fastest decently consistent "combo" decks in the format. 1 creature and 2 pump spells are all you really need. 1/3 creatures 1/3 pump spell 1/3 land odds say you have it in a starting 6 or 7. So you need to play it as such. If ANT played G, would you tell them to add nature's claim for chalice, cannonist, trisphere? If you were to side in hate, thoughseize would be the card of choice as its only the early game you care about. But then I don't like it in the deck anyway. rememeber my list of turn one plays, in the void I put it at 6 (and move asp down), I say the void because a deck like ANT or some combo deck, turn 1 disruption is the best to make sure you live (so against those decks, it ranks 1 2 or 3, crusader is that good, sometime just pray they don't have it and go for the win (in the case of turn 2 win) but against zoo,merfolk,golbins, your other 5 plays are better. Yes it makes your rituals better as you can then go turn one rit thoughtseize plague stinger (and you have enough 2 drops that you can do this somewhat consistently assuming 4 rituals 4 thoughtseize. But then deck loses consistency of explosiveness and gains consistency of "living". Add 4 seize and 2 rits, what do you remove, chances are vector asp (losing your 3 card 2 turn win (it turns into a 4 card turn 2 win requiring a rit) and probably rancor or rouse. You remove pump spells for disruption. Disrupt their removal or wincon and then delay and win from there. sound strategy, but decks are built for consistancy, in ext, ever thoughseize turn 1 only to see two bitterblossoms? With this deck I prefer to be proactive then reactive. Ever listen to players who played against this deck? They are afraid of your explosivness, they don't know the deck and if they played against it know that one unblocked creature could mean instant loss. remove your explosiveness and that fear is gone. Now if this deck every becomes top tier, then disruption will be good as people will know about it, but for now, as it stays quite low (though I suppose if you play in the northeast, some of the players know about it) your explosivness is what you want. If dredge doesn't need to worry about leyline of the voids, why have Sb slots for it. Once dredge needs to worry for LoTV, then it needs sideboard slots. That is where I think infect needs disruption right now. Once it becomes a know deck, and people try and hate it, then you need it.
also for TS their removal, the deck plays vines for a reason, plus most removal is dead against part of the deck
doomblade/variants - your deck has black creatures
Go for the throat- hello ichorclaw and vector asp (and inkmoth)
path/swords - hello there pro black
bolt-hello there pro red (plus half your pump spells save it from bolt anyway
dark blast, you have toughness two on a few creatures (plus your pump spells)
smother is the only main issue, but only team america would run it, and then what do you take when you see hymm,smother,go for the throat, dark confident. I'd rather throw out a creature, hope he hymms and get a lucky die roll (that match up is so bad)
I'm no expert on the format, but my playstyle, and though process as lead me to my card choices, as well as my interpretation on that infect is. As I said I treat it as a combo deck that uses any creature with the keyword infect, and I choose the best there are. (I hate decks running necropede and blight mamba), but is my judgement of what the deck does, so probably take my advise with a grain of salt, I've played it at a SCG Open and a GPT but that is about it, though I'll be playing it in May (though another set will be out by then)
Congratulations on a great showing. I think this strategy is underrated at the moment, and its heartening to see a T-4 out of a good sized group. I like your deck composition, and agree with many of your choices (2x Berserk, for instance, and no Lotus Petal or any of that stuff) but wonder about some others. Do you have trouble with 4x Nexus? Seems like the only time I've had mana trouble was when I open something like Nexus -> Bayou and then my next land is a Nexus, making it impossible to play 2 spells or anything double-colored. Also, my deck has fewer creatures and more pumps, so I haven't tried maindecking Phyrexian Crusader. I only have 2 so far, maybe I'm underestimating it, especially with decks with Swords becoming more common lately. I've resorted to maindecking 2 Canopy Covers to supplement Vines on the spell-dodging front, but I don't like it. Lightning Greaves, maybe, but that takes me down the neverending maze of corner-cases.
I am curious if you could expand on the match where you lost. Was it just one of those matches where he just had answers to everything? I hate it when that happens.
oh there are hand were nexus is a pain. double nexus urborg opening is the worse. but bayou nexus nexus isn't the worse because of the 5 mana dorks I have. Nexus dies to wasteland (but what man-land doesn't) but truthfully I'd rather them kill it then a green source. so If the board gets stalled (which it will with crusader) having the flier that can only be killed at instant speed is good (even better with vines back up). The problem with more pumps is sometime you have the 4 pump hand 1 creature. It great when they don't have removal, and crappy otherwise. Your turn 2/3 win is reduced but your attrition is better with more creatures. Because with just two pump spells, any creature is a threat. don't matter if its a 1/1 or a 2/2, hence my list has a higher creature count.
Crusader is the nuts. A common pump hand is two invigorates (or some variation of 2 +4/+4) on a 1/1, its only 9 poison, on a 2/2 its an auto kill. Crusader dodges majority of the removal in the format. Path,Swords,Firespout,Snuff Out, and is only hit by smother, go for the throat. And then against somedecks, its the stonecold nuts. Zoo has one creature that can get through it, and that only a tarmogofy once its 4/5 or higher.Goblins can't do anything against it. heavy base red and white deck just loss. Having a card that says you auto-win is very good.
Canopy Cover is ok, but a)its an enchantment. One reason I hate rancor is gofy's become 6/7's and enchantment is a pain. Also b)sometimes you need to play defense, and cover doesn't help, only on offensive, its not multipurpose and also not instant speed. I don't think greaves is good. Shroud is the last keyword I want, then all your pump spells are dead.
The match I lost.
Hymm turn 2, hit some stuff. But the main issue was I got land screwed. He wastelanded a few times, and just could never draw the green source I needed to cast creatures. Two Bob's later and a jace, I was fine if i had land, as I had a leathal vector asp in hand (non-infect) but unsummon every turn is bad when you only have one creature.
Game two. I kept a questionable hand, but again he hymm turn two hitting my berserk and rancor, and my turn 3 corrupter was basically bad. But I stablaized with creatures, but he hit is 1-of smother for my inchorclaw myr. Kinda unlucky on hymm, but that what teh cards does, and even if a mulligan, hyym just gets worse, so it was a lose-lose sitution. Him getting his one of removal kinda sucked, but I don't see why people aren't playing smother over gft as tomb stalker is the only creature is can't hit? (which they have jace bounce for anyway) so as the meta changes, I since his 1-of becomes higher count anyway. So he kinda had answers for everything, but when your deck can't punish him for playing Bob, what can you expect?
Ok interesting. Canopy cover is good in that it's troll-shroud, but I agree it's not optimal, certainly not Vines #5. A hand where Asp is my only creature means not infecting till turn 3, which is often but not always good enough, especially where there's a removal spell coming.
So I'm playing on MTGO, with a very bad list (not the list I have above) playing a 2 man playing against dredge. I boarded in 4 leyline of the void and 3 spellbombs (like I said, a very bad deck)
my opening hand is Overgrown tomb X2, Vector Asp x2, Berserk, invigorate, Vines (Turn 2 win) and I'm on the play. Do you keep, or do you aggressively mulligan to a hate card? I kept, which I think is the correct move, and my opponent agreed as well. Well he had a turn 1 dude and then went off and I lost, but what are your thoughts.
Yeah, the above deck is insane. I've goldfished and it kills on turn 2 with the nut draw, and on turn 3/4 with consistency.
Against control decks, it can grind them out with Crucible/Inkmoth/Blinkmoth. In addition, it plays too many threats per turn for them to counter/deal with effectively.
Against aggro decks, it has Jitte and tempo with Wasteland/Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Rishadan Port, etc.
Against combo decks, it has Chalice, Trinisphere, and Tangle Wire. Show and Tell/Natural Order just gets their fatty tapped down, and it wins fast enough that ANT can't combo out for sure.
Conley's list seems a bit off with some of the card choices (Sword of Fire and Ice, Arcbound Ravager, Contagion Clasp), but someone can work with it and come up with a better list.
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Legacy Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
The original designer of the MUD Infect deck that Conley modified and played at the Open wrote an article talking about his card choices and his MUs, as well as Conley's changes.
well retried the list from post #122 this weekend with a few modifications
-3 rouse
+3 hymn to Hymn to Tourach
sideboard to
4 Mindbreak trap
3 seal of doom
2 virlent wound
1 dark blast
3 extirpate
2 revered silence
and did an amazing 0-3 at that event. 6-0 the swiss in one, 0-3 the swiss in another (event had 15 people 4 round bye in the last round) maybe I just had an off day?
Match ups
R1-RUG threash
Made some really bad misplays like casting a berserk in response to my wasteland dying to remember his gofy was bigger than 4/2 crusader (at least I didn't attack and lose it to berserk) but game one lavamancer was bad and he kept wastlanding keeping me off 3 mana for crusader. Game two had crusader andall his removal was dead. Game three could not draw a third land for my life. and produced to lose to not being able to force the last 2 points of poison in. I feel this matchup was decent. Post board bring in dark blast and virulent wound but 50-50 either way fire//ice is a pain for this deck though.
R2-doomsday
Game 1- combed off turn earlier than leathal (but that what this decks for not playing blue)
Game 2- turn 3 win
Game 3- against he comb'd off one turn earlier but had to top deck his emerakul, but what can you expect between them pondering/brainstorming/preordaining, their top decks are meant to be consistent, combo is 50-50 on whose faster, drawing hymm would of been nice. nest part was game 2 he memorcided for crusader, but I boarded them out for mindbreak traps.
R3-goblins
I knew I was playing goblins going into the match and he had some luck I'd say, but I'll let you decide
turn 1-vial
turn 1 bayou birds of paradise
turn 2-lacky
turn-2 inkmoth nexus /pyrexian crusader
turn 3 vial in the bounce goblin your bird, edict your crusader.
prodeded to lose that game- he needed the perfect combination on turn 3 to do that, as that was his only out i think. but oh well
Game 2,
he goes turn 1 vial
i go turn 2 corrupter your vial
I proceed to win that game
game three he as turn 1 lacky.
I have turn 1 vector asp,
but he pyrocanisis it for 4
can't do anything about that. I have two crusaders in my hand but never draw my 3rd land (he never wastelanded that game)
It was this game that made me regret taking out the e-plagues in the board, but I think virulent wound and dark blast are fine replacements. I'm a sucker for seal of doom as its one of the few outs to an emerakul, who knows maybe it should be e-plague. goblin sharpshooter is hard for this deck, it is all x/1 besides cursader. I didn't like this matchup pre-besieged, and while crusader helps the deck a lot it is still not that good despite having a card that has protection from their whole deck.
Im glad I found this thread I have been running a deck similar to alot of the decks posted in this thread, in our local thursday night legacy. Here is my current list.
sometimes I run someautumn's veil in the sb instead of avoid fate just depends.
I have played it twice now, once with a turnout of 13 second with 9. First time I finished 5th, second 3rd or 4th, I honestly cant remember.
I don't have alot of info about the games as I don't take notes I will try to do that next time I play it.
I would like to find some happy medium of bigger creatures and protection from removal. The last tournament I played I went 4-2 with my two loses coming to a brain numbing barrage of ethersworn canonistmaze of ith and swords/path at all the right times.
A little bit of blue splash for Shadow Rift might be a killer here.
I think Distortion Strike would be a better card in this situation (I don't know when you would be casting it at instant speed to gain a benefit over sorcery speed) and then the second pump over the card draw seems better.
That being said, The mana is already pretty "bad". I say bad as getting colors isn't the issue, its more getting a land subtype the issue, as you need a forest for invigorate to be good. Plus you have P Crusader, which requires a heavy black investment.
Tropical island doesn't help with crusader, and underground sea doesn't help with invigorate.
Island does neither.
It sounds good, but the mana can't handle it. Now you can remove black and go for a green blue build, but I don't think adding blue in replace of plague stinger and P crusader is worth it. Yes you can add force of will, but then you need even more blue cards and it gets messy. So power wise, i think B/G > G/U (I don't think it is necessary to say G/B > B/U as invigorate is really the only reason this deck is viable)
The next issue is what do you remove, sure the current list have cards that are not optimal, but then does DS add anything that they don't already do? unblockable/shadow is nice but (at leas in my testing) there were very few times in testing that the card I drew was worse then if it gave me unblockable. Hymn was great against combo, virulent wound against goblin sharpshooter, maybe rancor was underperforming if anything, but then trample and unblockable serve about the same issue, getting poison through) Yes unblockable is better than trample, but then is it worth adding blue? IMO no, but test with it, maybe it will work, I just see mana being the biggest issue
the original list is better, the one on the first page. but i dont run black. bant colors might be a good idea, using exalted abilities to pump up your creatures with infect is not so bad.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Noble Hierarch
Infect
4 Ichorclaw myr
4 Necropede
4 Vector Asp
3 Plague Stinger
3 Plague Myr
2 Phyrexian Crusader
Pump
4 Invigorate
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
2 Livewire Lash
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Thoughtseize
3 Snuff Out
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Plague
2 Aether Vial
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
@Crusader
Personally I don't think he is worth it as BB is pretty difficult to achieve if you're not running dark rituals. I think a turn 5 win is also quite slow. Stick with the colorless and green dudes for the most part. I run 15 dudes and 3 inkmoth, so in essence I have 18 dudes and 20 pumps. I feel like this is a pretty good balance and have good results in testing.
Round 1 vs ???
I feel bad playing against guys like this in legacy. He had a pile of cards that had some colors in common, but I think it was basically just some red and black Shadowmoor and Shards cards. Aphotic Wisps was in there, and a Graven Cairns, and a demigod of Revenge was discarded at some point, but I basically ran him right over.
2-0, 1-0
Round 2 vs ???
Each game he led off with a Mishra's Factory, I led off each game with a Vector Asp and a fist full of pumps. Game 1 was over in 3 turns, game 2 was 2 turns. I have to say he was the worst loser I have ever encountered in any endeavor in my life. After he scooped up from game 2, he just kept ranting about how lucky I was, how unlucky he was, and how my deck epic fails if it doesn't win. He threw down his major tech to deal with me, a couple big game hunters(?!). What a tool.
2-0, 2-0
Round 3 vs Merfolk
Finally. A real deck against a real player. Game 1 he countered my first couple things, but I stuck a Plague Stinger. He misplayed a bit then by hard casting a Coralhelm Cmmander rather than Vialing it in when he had it on 2. By doing that, he couldn't level it into flight mode, and I was able to sting him to death next turn. Game 2 I kept an extremely shaky hand of 2 lands, 3 Dark Rit, Ichorclaw Myr and Vector Asp. My turn 1 Rit got Dazed, but the next turn I got it, but the Myr was Forced, and the Asp landed. He got out his Commander and then a Lord of Atlantis. We settled into a long game of try and counter, but eventually I assembled a force of Hierarchs and pumps and busted through.
2-0, 3-0
Round 4 vs D&T
Game 1 I run over him in 3 or 4 turns. Game 2 I side in a couple Needles and a K-grip, but see neither and I take my first loss, largely due to Umezawa's Jitte. Man, never let that thing get counters. Mulling to 5 didn't help, but I couldn't get anything going after a first turn Thoughtseize. Game 3 i kept a shake hand with no infecters, which may have been a mistake hunt I didn't want to start dropping cards on the play. Luckily I drew an Asp by the second turn, and I was in business. then came the play which will haunt me for a while. After fighting through some removal with Vines and Invigorates, in had all the tools in hand. I start mu main phase with Asp, Hierarch and 4 lands in play, Rancor, Groundswell, Vines, Kiss, and Berserk in hand. He only has Qasali Pridemage to block with, no cards in hand. I put Rancor on the Asp and attack. Exalted resolves. I play Kiss, it resolves. I play Groundswell, it resolves. At 7 power, I figure to just Berserk for the win. It resolves. He blocks. He just shrugs and says 'take 12' and I start gathering up my stuff when I realize I didn't turn on infect on the asp. So I lay my board back out, feeling things going slightly sideways. I had been so preoccupied with Vines for when he popped the Pridemage that I totally forgot to pay the one critical black. However, he's at 5 life, then fetches down to 4, and I can theoretically kill him with regular damage the next turn after replaying Rancor on the Hierarch. Sadly, he top decks a Jitte, equips it, and gets counters on it, so he can knock out and creature I play, which he proceeds to do. I don't give up, trying to draw out any of my anti-artifact cards or new threats, but its just not there.
1-2, 3-1, good for 3rd out of 24, so close to first.
I'll post my list later, still feel ill about it.
EDIT: And Groundswell over Might of Old Krosa?
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
How the hell did i miss this....
You sir are a smarter man than I and i commend you.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Ever considered 1-2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for that? Seems like a great land for this deck nevertheless.
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
Here is the deck I played
I played in order
R1:Zoo 2-0
R2:Stax 2-0
R3:CounterTop 2-1
R4:Team America 2-1
R5:Eldrazi Post 2-0
R6:Metalworker 2-1
QF:Zoo 2-1
SF:Team America 0-2 ( James Rynkiewicz got his revenge for Boston)
Few notes before I go. I felt like I was playing with a 5 card sideboard. Almost every match I didn't side board a single card. Granted Mindbreak trap and Exterpaites were for ANT and Dredge, which I played against neither, and should be in the board regardless. I never wanted to board duress is (but again for the ANT matchup) E-plague was for merfolk and golbins, seal of doom was for show and tell, yet were board in for Countertop for the peacekeeper e boarded in. SB needs a lot of help.
More details later
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
I'm currently running a more combo oriented version of the deck with less creatures more acell, and running bounty of the hunt. Been thinking about rouse over it but bounty + berserk does seem to hit a sweet spot off a crusader.
Sideboard is a tough call. I like the singleton emrakul. Mindbreak trap is excellent against your one matchup, but not so great against others, and then to put that on top of 4 extirpate seems a bit much. Would consider some thoughtsieze instead, especially since you run some rituals maindeck and they are generically more useful. Pithing needle is also pretty great, as it can deal with some rouge combo decks or whatnot here and there but also is really good at turning off aether vial. Engineered Plague seems useful only in matches that you already have the upper hand on, so maybe thats cutable. I think the big card you should consider is Autumn's Veil. Against Fish is a 1 mana green counterspell with what may amount to a silence built in. Also protects your buffed dudes from Go for the Throat, bounce spells, etc.
More details on the matches would be much appreciated.
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Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
I used to run bounty, but the issue is that its card disdavtage, and I don't have a lot of green spells.
If I have invigorate , why pitch it for bounty if I can cast it anyway (rarely can you not)
If I have vines, vines is there for swords and bolt protection, but something i don't want to pitch away
If I have berserk, I'm pitching a card I don't want to pitch.
Hierarch, exalted helps you too much to pitch.
bird-only card I think I'm willing to pitch, but turn 1 its being casted.
Rouse is choosen because it is free.
If you notice my pump spells are free or very good. Sure might of krosa and ground swell are +4/+4 but it costs to much. you vines is expensive, but the shroud is very much needed.
X2 beserk seems like a budget thing, but I believe the deck only needs 2. Yes berserk gives you wins, but if you ever playtest, I think you notice (with the excpetion of rouse) you normally go from 1/1 to 10/10 anyway. Now it is a little akward to go 1/1 -> inviograte X2 to only do 9 infect, but lets look at potential combos
invigorate + invigorate
Invigorate + berserk
rouse + berserk
berserk + berserk
Double berserk doesn't win games, and excluding rouse, berserk gives you the win with vines or invigorate
because I run exalted, most times my 1/1 is a 2/2, so double +4/+4 is lethal by itself. You need berserk, but only need to see one per game, multiples don't help at all.
So budget wise, all I'm missing is bayou, and while some disagree with my berserk number, I think it is fine where it is.
I didn't keep details on my matches, but I can try an give some details
Zoo: Basically this comes from having crusader and a flyer. You need crusader on the ground to stop attacks, and then use the flyer to infect. I use pump spell moderatly, and go for the kill if they are tapped out, or if you vines to protect it. Patients is what is needed in this matchup. Outside gofy, their creatures can't come even close to touching crusader. Now some of my opponents did make play errors attacking their 3/3 nacatl into crusader not realzing that first strike infect makes it a 1/1, but that does come with the fact your playing a "rouge" deck. One of my games, I had the win on turn 5 if I played all my creatures in my hand and went all in for it, but I elected to play the safe game that I was going to win anyway. So my advise in this matchup, don't over extend. While you will have games were you just win, with swords and bolts, lots of chances of getting blow out. With crusader on the field, their one out is jitte, but then your out is corrupter. This deck will basically auto lose to turn 1 crusader (though turn 5 crusader is also hard for them to beat as well)
Can't really say much about my stax matchup
game 1 we both mull to six, he goes turn 1 flagstones
I go turn one rit into crusader
he goes turn 2 ancient tomb crusicle
I go turn 2 pump win
Games 2 he mulls to 4 while I again have turn 1 crusader.
Counter top. Back when I was playtesting for boston, this was very bad as they had firespout. With crusader and inkmoth, firespout is less of a problem. But game 1 I belive I had turn 2 crusader off a birds and he had only a top. and was dead on turn 3. Game two, I didn't know they had peacekeeper and just lost because I had no removal. so game three I bring in seal of dooms and e-plague, which asctually were useful.
I had turn one vector asp and turn 2 hierarch, but had no access to black mana, so I started bashing for 3. I get him to 14 and the plays the stiffle 12/12 combo. I procede to seal of doom it, and he swords it in response. so damage route is gone as he has 2 mishra factorie's in play. I get a crusader on the field. he misplays into attacking into crusader (against first strike stuff) I force him to tapout and counter my e-plague (that was going to name cleric if is resolves making his only out dead) he countered, and I proceded to invigorate berserk for the win. (by the way now that I think about it, my record for game 1 poison is 0->18 against zoo). Basically early presure against this deck is its down fall (which this deck just happens to do)
Team America- This match up is really hard. you can't beat late game as their bob's are basically free, terravore is huge, gofy is huge (btw rancor is an enchantment-6/7 gofys are not fun) Hymm is a card you just sometimes lose to, which I lost to in the finals, but I think I could of muligan better (but then hymm just hurts me even harder so who knows) Against the swiss deck, I had a conversation with him before hand (not realizing I was going to play him) and talked about that forcing the turn 1 vector asp is the correct play(still do in fact) and he procudes to force it (he was dead on turn 2 otherwise [even with him having force]) but I had another creature and his hymm hit some pump spells, but I still had more and beat him. The problem is they have so much removal. The advatage is they need perfect removal for you, they need go for the throat for crusader, and they need something else for myr and asp. Just happened james had the one of smother for my deck as well. This may sound stupid, but I truely think I want to try Virulent Wound in the sideboard. Bob gives them so much advantageous, and gives a size boot of killing step lynx in zoo while giving them 1 poison counter, giving that 1/1 +4/+4 X2 actually lethal instead of needed three pump spells, exalted, or another attack. Just a thought.
Exldrazi post- They dont interact with you for 3 turns, you can win on turn 3. I feel this a favored matchup. though in game 1 of out match, supposedly the guys was going to have emerakul on turn 4 (except I Viridian Corrupter his candle thing, buying me the one turn I needed.
Metalworker
Game one, Turn 3 he is at 7 poison with lethal next turn, he rips an artifact to go infinte with his staff thing.
Game two he dies on turn 3.
Game three was very awkward (I'll put it this way, I won using birds of paradise)He keeps double ancient tomb but gets stalled. while I have turn one hierarch. then he plays phreixan revoker naming hierarch. Which keeps me off three mana forever. But I start getting in for 1 a turn, and his life is getting low off tombs and hierarch. Eventually he get a forgemaster out, key,metalworker. And he said he misplayed, but ends up sacing everything but the forgemaster for a myr battlesphere. Since revoekr is gone, I can then cast the Viridian Corrupter that was in my hand the whole time killing the forgemaster. But he missreader the board state and doesn't attack for a turn.(i had crusader, corrupter and hierarch on baord, and I was at 8, so i think the math allowed to attack, get blocked and fling some myrs at me, but I'm not sure. But that one turn allows me to cast birds of paradise (he by the way is a 2 life at this time with 6 poison counters) he the attacks me down to 4, and then attack with birds, using vines of vastwood kicked for the win. awkward game. But it does bring up the lesson, just because you are playing infect doesn't mean you can ignore thier life total.(which it part of the reson vector asp i think is great in the deck) against a deck like ANT turn 1 asp, turn 2 rancor, attack not giving it infect is actually better against that deck as life total matters. something to keep in mind.
So I got lucky in some matches that my opponents misplayed into attacking into crusader, but in the two matches it happened, it did not matter. And possibly lucky my opponents mulliganed- but that being said, this deck can mulligan to 4 and still have a turn 2 win, so part of the nature of the deck. I think I misplayed during my semifinals match by not muliguning, into a combo fast hand, even knowing I was playing against team america, but I will never know, playing around hymm and force is not the easiest thing to do.
Also one last thing about dark ritual, I rank the turn 1 plays as follows
1)forest vector asp - if i have swamp,invigorate and berserk in hand (aka turn 2 win)
2)dark rit crusader
3)noble hierarch with two swamps in hand
4)birds of paradise with only one black source in hand
5)noble hierarch with only one black soruce in hand
6)vector asp
If you notice the hands are ranked based on how fast crusader can hit the battlefield. Dark rit allows for it, so I highly suggest in the deck, but i feel only 2 is needed, you don't want multiples, and turn 1 crusader is not always needed, it is just sweet when it does happen.
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
I get the whole Noble Hierarch thing, but Noble Hierarch can't make black Mana and if you get hit by sinkhole or wasteland T1 your not hitting your T2 crusader and may be in a bad spot for mana. Would probably say ritual would be better in that slot.
Also I would say you need at a minimum 1 forest and 1 swamp maindeck. You want a land off a path without a doubt, and having a black mana that can't be wasted is a huge deal cause otherwise you may be held off of your crusaders for the game.
Lastly, I think sideboarding natures claim is a good call. For one mana it deals with jitte, swords, manabond, etc, and you do not care what their life total is. Krosan grip has its uses but one green mana is a damn strong deal. In an enchantment heavy meta you would want to consider Reverent silence.
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Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Same does for dark rit. As I said, multiples are bad, and if your playing around daze... that is exactly why there are 5 mana dorks, to play around daze. once you go turn one hierarch/birds, it is almost impossible for you to be dazed. and again, my build is more green heavy, so the extra black most times just goes to waste (not to say I haven't used rit to cast a plague stinger and attack with an inkmoth nexus, outside crusader black is not needed. Also,( and this comment gives me a lot of glares as well) this deck wants to be wastelanded. Wasteland is only good when you have pressure. If you spend your turn wastelanding me, you time walked yourself, while I have something on board, either hierarch or vector asp. They can't afford to wasteland early game as your too fast. As for sinkhole, how many decks are playing sink hole? But if even all that you are still afraid of black denial, change the hierarchs for birds and the bird for hierarch. Also, turn 2 crusader is great, but its not like it is needed, as i said I couldn't cast my crusader till turn 5 against zoo, and it won me that game. plague stinger and ichorclasw myr are perfectly good 2 drops, and if you have a hierarch, 1 invigorate + 1 vines is still lethal on turn 3 (with daze backup on all the spells). Also the deck has 7 (should be 8) swamp/forests, they have at most 4 wastelands, color is rarly the issue, and you only have 40 slots, you can add two dark rituals, but then what do you remove?
I can't comment on SB as my Sb was not helpful, but as I said most slots were for decks I didn't face, If I faces ANT, MBT would be sided in, if I faced Dredge, Exterpaite would be sided in, etc. My biggest issue with cards like nature's claim, grip, etc. The deck really doesn't care about jitte,swords, or mana bound. They are dead before many of them go active anyway, and if they do get active, drawing your answer card won't save you. Mindbreak Trap and exterpaite, when casted correctly, most of the time give you the win. Sometimes your dead anyway, but then how does it differ from having the force/stiffle or not having it, sometimes ANT wins through it anyway. Killing a jitte, means they still have creatures on the board you need to deal with, its not a helpful answer card. Cards that kill peacekeeper, maze of ith, moat (though not as much as a problem has you have fliers) tabernacle, things that stop you from winning are what you need. On one hand you are a creature deck and you have combat interactions, on the otherhand, you have IMO one of the fastest decently consistent "combo" decks in the format. 1 creature and 2 pump spells are all you really need. 1/3 creatures 1/3 pump spell 1/3 land odds say you have it in a starting 6 or 7. So you need to play it as such. If ANT played G, would you tell them to add nature's claim for chalice, cannonist, trisphere? If you were to side in hate, thoughseize would be the card of choice as its only the early game you care about. But then I don't like it in the deck anyway. rememeber my list of turn one plays, in the void I put it at 6 (and move asp down), I say the void because a deck like ANT or some combo deck, turn 1 disruption is the best to make sure you live (so against those decks, it ranks 1 2 or 3, crusader is that good, sometime just pray they don't have it and go for the win (in the case of turn 2 win) but against zoo,merfolk,golbins, your other 5 plays are better. Yes it makes your rituals better as you can then go turn one rit thoughtseize plague stinger (and you have enough 2 drops that you can do this somewhat consistently assuming 4 rituals 4 thoughtseize. But then deck loses consistency of explosiveness and gains consistency of "living". Add 4 seize and 2 rits, what do you remove, chances are vector asp (losing your 3 card 2 turn win (it turns into a 4 card turn 2 win requiring a rit) and probably rancor or rouse. You remove pump spells for disruption. Disrupt their removal or wincon and then delay and win from there. sound strategy, but decks are built for consistancy, in ext, ever thoughseize turn 1 only to see two bitterblossoms? With this deck I prefer to be proactive then reactive. Ever listen to players who played against this deck? They are afraid of your explosivness, they don't know the deck and if they played against it know that one unblocked creature could mean instant loss. remove your explosiveness and that fear is gone. Now if this deck every becomes top tier, then disruption will be good as people will know about it, but for now, as it stays quite low (though I suppose if you play in the northeast, some of the players know about it) your explosivness is what you want. If dredge doesn't need to worry about leyline of the voids, why have Sb slots for it. Once dredge needs to worry for LoTV, then it needs sideboard slots. That is where I think infect needs disruption right now. Once it becomes a know deck, and people try and hate it, then you need it.
also for TS their removal, the deck plays vines for a reason, plus most removal is dead against part of the deck
doomblade/variants - your deck has black creatures
Go for the throat- hello ichorclaw and vector asp (and inkmoth)
path/swords - hello there pro black
bolt-hello there pro red (plus half your pump spells save it from bolt anyway
dark blast, you have toughness two on a few creatures (plus your pump spells)
smother is the only main issue, but only team america would run it, and then what do you take when you see hymm,smother,go for the throat, dark confident. I'd rather throw out a creature, hope he hymms and get a lucky die roll (that match up is so bad)
I'm no expert on the format, but my playstyle, and though process as lead me to my card choices, as well as my interpretation on that infect is. As I said I treat it as a combo deck that uses any creature with the keyword infect, and I choose the best there are. (I hate decks running necropede and blight mamba), but is my judgement of what the deck does, so probably take my advise with a grain of salt, I've played it at a SCG Open and a GPT but that is about it, though I'll be playing it in May (though another set will be out by then)
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
I am curious if you could expand on the match where you lost. Was it just one of those matches where he just had answers to everything? I hate it when that happens.
Crusader is the nuts. A common pump hand is two invigorates (or some variation of 2 +4/+4) on a 1/1, its only 9 poison, on a 2/2 its an auto kill. Crusader dodges majority of the removal in the format. Path,Swords,Firespout,Snuff Out, and is only hit by smother, go for the throat. And then against somedecks, its the stonecold nuts. Zoo has one creature that can get through it, and that only a tarmogofy once its 4/5 or higher.Goblins can't do anything against it. heavy base red and white deck just loss. Having a card that says you auto-win is very good.
Canopy Cover is ok, but a)its an enchantment. One reason I hate rancor is gofy's become 6/7's and enchantment is a pain. Also b)sometimes you need to play defense, and cover doesn't help, only on offensive, its not multipurpose and also not instant speed. I don't think greaves is good. Shroud is the last keyword I want, then all your pump spells are dead.
The match I lost.
Hymm turn 2, hit some stuff. But the main issue was I got land screwed. He wastelanded a few times, and just could never draw the green source I needed to cast creatures. Two Bob's later and a jace, I was fine if i had land, as I had a leathal vector asp in hand (non-infect) but unsummon every turn is bad when you only have one creature.
Game two. I kept a questionable hand, but again he hymm turn two hitting my berserk and rancor, and my turn 3 corrupter was basically bad. But I stablaized with creatures, but he hit is 1-of smother for my inchorclaw myr. Kinda unlucky on hymm, but that what teh cards does, and even if a mulligan, hyym just gets worse, so it was a lose-lose sitution. Him getting his one of removal kinda sucked, but I don't see why people aren't playing smother over gft as tomb stalker is the only creature is can't hit? (which they have jace bounce for anyway) so as the meta changes, I since his 1-of becomes higher count anyway. So he kinda had answers for everything, but when your deck can't punish him for playing Bob, what can you expect?
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
So I'm playing on MTGO, with a very bad list (not the list I have above) playing a 2 man playing against dredge. I boarded in 4 leyline of the void and 3 spellbombs (like I said, a very bad deck)
my opening hand is Overgrown tomb X2, Vector Asp x2, Berserk, invigorate, Vines (Turn 2 win) and I'm on the play. Do you keep, or do you aggressively mulligan to a hate card? I kept, which I think is the correct move, and my opponent agreed as well. Well he had a turn 1 dude and then went off and I lost, but what are your thoughts.
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
Against control decks, it can grind them out with Crucible/Inkmoth/Blinkmoth. In addition, it plays too many threats per turn for them to counter/deal with effectively.
Against aggro decks, it has Jitte and tempo with Wasteland/Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Rishadan Port, etc.
Against combo decks, it has Chalice, Trinisphere, and Tangle Wire. Show and Tell/Natural Order just gets their fatty tapped down, and it wins fast enough that ANT can't combo out for sure.
Conley's list seems a bit off with some of the card choices (Sword of Fire and Ice, Arcbound Ravager, Contagion Clasp), but someone can work with it and come up with a better list.
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
It can be accessed here:
http://rustymachete.blogspot.com/2011/04/april-3rd-legacy-mud-poison_03.html
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
-3 rouse
+3 hymn to Hymn to Tourach
sideboard to
4 Mindbreak trap
3 seal of doom
2 virlent wound
1 dark blast
3 extirpate
2 revered silence
and did an amazing 0-3 at that event. 6-0 the swiss in one, 0-3 the swiss in another (event had 15 people 4 round bye in the last round) maybe I just had an off day?
Match ups
R1-RUG threash
Made some really bad misplays like casting a berserk in response to my wasteland dying to remember his gofy was bigger than 4/2 crusader (at least I didn't attack and lose it to berserk) but game one lavamancer was bad and he kept wastlanding keeping me off 3 mana for crusader. Game two had crusader andall his removal was dead. Game three could not draw a third land for my life. and produced to lose to not being able to force the last 2 points of poison in. I feel this matchup was decent. Post board bring in dark blast and virulent wound but 50-50 either way fire//ice is a pain for this deck though.
R2-doomsday
Game 1- combed off turn earlier than leathal (but that what this decks for not playing blue)
Game 2- turn 3 win
Game 3- against he comb'd off one turn earlier but had to top deck his emerakul, but what can you expect between them pondering/brainstorming/preordaining, their top decks are meant to be consistent, combo is 50-50 on whose faster, drawing hymm would of been nice. nest part was game 2 he memorcided for crusader, but I boarded them out for mindbreak traps.
R3-goblins
I knew I was playing goblins going into the match and he had some luck I'd say, but I'll let you decide
turn 1-vial
turn 1 bayou birds of paradise
turn 2-lacky
turn-2 inkmoth nexus /pyrexian crusader
turn 3 vial in the bounce goblin your bird, edict your crusader.
prodeded to lose that game- he needed the perfect combination on turn 3 to do that, as that was his only out i think. but oh well
Game 2,
he goes turn 1 vial
i go turn 2 corrupter your vial
I proceed to win that game
game three he as turn 1 lacky.
I have turn 1 vector asp,
but he pyrocanisis it for 4
can't do anything about that. I have two crusaders in my hand but never draw my 3rd land (he never wastelanded that game)
It was this game that made me regret taking out the e-plagues in the board, but I think virulent wound and dark blast are fine replacements. I'm a sucker for seal of doom as its one of the few outs to an emerakul, who knows maybe it should be e-plague. goblin sharpshooter is hard for this deck, it is all x/1 besides cursader. I didn't like this matchup pre-besieged, and while crusader helps the deck a lot it is still not that good despite having a card that has protection from their whole deck.
Hopefully I do better in two weeks
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
4 groundswell
4 rancor
4 vines of vastwood
4 berserk
4 elvish spirit guide
4 lotus petal
4 ichorclaw myr
4 plague stinger
4 phyrexian crusader
4 inkmoth nexus
4 overgrown tomb
4 verdant catacombs
4 forest
2 swamp
2 snuff out
4 engineered plague
4 avoid fate
2 snuff out
sometimes I run someautumn's veil in the sb instead of avoid fate just depends.
I have played it twice now, once with a turnout of 13 second with 9. First time I finished 5th, second 3rd or 4th, I honestly cant remember.
I don't have alot of info about the games as I don't take notes I will try to do that next time I play it.
I would like to find some happy medium of bigger creatures and protection from removal. The last tournament I played I went 4-2 with my two loses coming to a brain numbing barrage of ethersworn canonist maze of ith and swords/path at all the right times.
I am currently considering testing.
-2 rancor
-2 plague stinger
-4 lotus petal
-2 snuff out
+ 4 dark ritual
+ 4 phyrexian vatmother
+ 2 rouse
Maybe drop groundswell for inquisition or hymn?
I think Distortion Strike would be a better card in this situation (I don't know when you would be casting it at instant speed to gain a benefit over sorcery speed) and then the second pump over the card draw seems better.
That being said, The mana is already pretty "bad". I say bad as getting colors isn't the issue, its more getting a land subtype the issue, as you need a forest for invigorate to be good. Plus you have P Crusader, which requires a heavy black investment.
Tropical island doesn't help with crusader, and underground sea doesn't help with invigorate.
Island does neither.
It sounds good, but the mana can't handle it. Now you can remove black and go for a green blue build, but I don't think adding blue in replace of plague stinger and P crusader is worth it. Yes you can add force of will, but then you need even more blue cards and it gets messy. So power wise, i think B/G > G/U (I don't think it is necessary to say G/B > B/U as invigorate is really the only reason this deck is viable)
The next issue is what do you remove, sure the current list have cards that are not optimal, but then does DS add anything that they don't already do? unblockable/shadow is nice but (at leas in my testing) there were very few times in testing that the card I drew was worse then if it gave me unblockable. Hymn was great against combo, virulent wound against goblin sharpshooter, maybe rancor was underperforming if anything, but then trample and unblockable serve about the same issue, getting poison through) Yes unblockable is better than trample, but then is it worth adding blue? IMO no, but test with it, maybe it will work, I just see mana being the biggest issue
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect