Why is it that counterbalance is at such a low right now? I haven't seen anyone playing it in the loongest time. I have basically all the cards to make a deck for it, but I've just been deterred because of that.
Counterbalance is not well-placed in the current meta.
Just look at the tier one decks and then find their MU percentages against Counterbalance. It's very clear.
I think Counterbalance will rotate back into tier one/two after Storm strategies discover how to play against Mental Misstep.
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Legacy Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
SB includes SFM package (for aggro), Krosan Grip (for artifact/enchant), and Relic of Progenitus (for graveyard hate)
Might need to readjust SB, but deck performed all right. Beat Spliter Twin combo deck. Lost to merfolk, but that was because of some bad draws (I was able to hardcast FoW... that's how bad).
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Spells:
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Dismember
1 Snuff Out
1 Go For The Throat
3 Fire/Ice
2 Counterspell
I feel like I need a 2nd Jace and i've been toying around the idea of adding in Spellsputter Sprites as some Tempo/Control. I don't think this deck specifically needs Snapcaster Mages because it's targets aren't quite as broad because of the combo. This deck has a huge issue with aggro decks, but a decent match-up against the slower decks. Also, as an aside, I do not like playing 4 FoWs in here because I don't feel like I ever want 2 in my hand.
I don't know overall, because I just started playing a countertop deck - but I have played against a couple different combo decks a few different times, and I don't think it's just 'said to be good vs. combo'. Get top resolved turn 1, and get CB resolved turn 2 - if you untap and just chill and play draw-go and keep a one and two drop on top of your deck, you're probably going to win.
I don't think *I* could win a tournament with it, and I think you need to sideboard against the fast aggro decks (oh, how I wish I had a moat in paper), but I'm not all that great a pilot. And that makes me think it's even better against combo in the hands of a good pilot, because I haven't lost to a combo deck since I picked it up and I don't think I'm all that great shakes as a player This is not to say I think that I won't lose to a combo deck. Just that I haven't yet and it seems really good so far.
The one combo deck I beat that might be trouble is the dump-enchantments-to-the-graveyard, bring-them-all-back, then turn them into guys deck, because it has a lot of drops that are higher than 1, 2. That deck, and I don't know about enchantress, because I haven't played it yet. But four horseman and storm seemed no trouble at all.
Trinket Mage
--Phyrexian Dreadnought [w/Stifle]
--Engineered Explosives
--Basilisk Collar [w/Grim Lavamancer]
--Pithing Needle
--Seat of the Synod
Blue SB:
Spell Pierce
Flusterstorm
Dispel
Annul
Envelop
Propaganda
White Splash MD:
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Stoneforge Mystic
--Batterskull
--Sword of Feast and Famine
--Sword of Fire and Ice
--Sword of Body and Mind
--Umezawa's Jitte
--Sword of the Meek [w/Thopter Foundry]
--Manriki-Gusari
Enlightened Tutor
--Engineered Explosives [w/Academy Ruins]
--Crucible of Worlds [w/Mishra's Factory, Wasteland]
--Ensnaring Bridge
--Humility
--Moat
--Oblivion Ring
--Pithing Needle
--Thopter Foundry
--Sword of the Meek
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Wheel of Sun and Moon
--Chill
--Energy Flux
--Blood Moon
--Back to Basics
--Aura of Silence
--The Abyss
--Nether Void
White Splash SB:
Wrath of God
Day of Judgment
Disenchant
Peacekeeper
Ray of Revelation
Green Splash MD:
Tarmogoyf
Rhox War Monk
Firespout
Knight of the Reliquary
--Bojuka Bog
--Wasteland
--Maze of Ith
--Tower of the Magistrate
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Natural Order
--Noble Hierarch
--Dryad Arbor
--Progenitus
Living Wish
--Gaddock Teeg
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
--Bojuka Bog
--Llawan, Cephalid Empress
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Faerie Macabre
--Peacekeeper
--Qasali Pridemage
Green Splash SB:
Krosan Grip
Nature's Claim
Red Splash MD:
Grim Lavamancer
Firespout
Red Splash SB:
Ancient Grudge
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast
Black Splash MD:
Dark Confidant
Dismember
Diabolic Edict
Black Splash SB:
Leyline of the Void
Surgical Extraction
Extirpate
edit: if someone else could fill in all the stuff that i've missed, perhaps we could collaboratively make a comprehensive 'design decision tree' for the head post, because i suspect that once the metagame corrects itself, this deck will become viable again
nb: some of these options [such as cunning wish] are obviously not ideal or typical, however, they exist and the more data listed only increases options
This is a deck that i'm testing for a couple of weeks. It is doing very well in my meta and have become the most powerful deck of my small playgroup (merfolks, Rock, Maverick, Faeries, Show and tell).
I'm testing this deck right now but I don't really know if it is competitive right now. Let me know what you think about it. It is a Counternought deck:
So we all know that Moat and Humility are houses against aggro, and pyroclasm is a cold slap in the johnson. But what about propaganda? Has anyone else had any success with it in mono-blue Dreadstill lists?
I figured it would be a little faster than pyroclasm because you don't need to get the fetch, get the dual land, and then get the pyroclasm.
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They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
I have been working on this countertop variant for almost a week now. So far I have been winning matches against RUG Tempo, UR delver, UW stoneblade, reanimator, and even maverick.
I have been winning quite a few games with intuition into life from the loam, punishing fire, and grove of the burnwillows.
How bad is Scavenging Ooze against your deck? This is why I'm leery nowadays about Intuition Rock decks--your tutor targets just get eaten up by that guy. (At least Punishing Groves has a little bit of innate protection against the Ooze, but if they Wasteland the Grove, then exile it, that just kills the combo.)
Well, scavenging ooze hasn't really been too difficult to play around from my experience. Considering, it can be dealt with by either removal or countermagic. I mean the punishing fire engine is powerful and can be weak in given situations but it's not the only way this deck can win it just happens to be one of the ways.
Depending on the matchup, I usually try to assemble the countertop lock first before I do anything else. Either it's implementing goyf beats, fatesealing with Jace, and/or finally grabbing loam, grove, and punishing fire through Intuition. While if all else fails I also have a pair of thruns in the board to also seal the deal too.
Hey I have started play a CBT variant and would like some response from people.
I played in a small tourney (30-40 peeps) and did alright 3-2 and drob.
I would like to do better and I am sure I would be able to when I get to know the deck a bit.
Hey I have started play a CBT variant and would like some response from people.
I played in a small tourney (30-40 peeps) and did alright 3-2 and drob.
I would like to do better and I am sure I would be able to when I get to know the deck a bit.
I don't have all that much experience with this deck, I really wanna put it together because I love using sensei's divining top. But I'm wondering how this deck performs in a aggro heavy meta? I'd be mostly dealing with Goblins, W/x weenie and junk.
I'm not sure about the other match-ups, but my testing with CounterTop against Goblins is that you need to be heavily anti-aggro to win against that deck. With Lackey, Vial, and Cavern of Souls, they will render Counterbalance almost useless (unless you're protecting something like Moat). Their fantastically 4-drop heavy curve will also stymie CounterTop until they get one of their 11+ outs online.
I've generally had a bad time piloting CounterTop against Goblins.
What are the best colours to splash for in a countertop deck? I realise that this question will obviously spark a personal preference in people but I think it will be interesting to hear why people favor one colour over another. On a personal note, I think white is my favorite colour to splash. I like white for the little additional control as well as the removal options it offers: Swords To Plowshares, Oblivion Ring, Wrath of God, etc. I also like white inasmuch as I can add a little bit more aggression in the form of Geist of Saint Traft and/or Elspeth, Knight-Errant as alternative win cons. Enlightened Tutor has been amazing for me too. It also opens up cracking sideboard options also: Wrath of God, Circle of Protection: Red, Path to Exile and Moat if you have one.
Temporal Mastery isn't that great. It's usually an explore.
The best miracles to use right now are Terminus and Entreat the Angels. They are amazing. EoT Terminus with top or brainstorm, then landing Jace next turn is BACKBREAKING against the fair decks like Maverick or Goblins.
The two countertop decks that I've seen gain a bit of popularity lately has been UWx Thopterbalance and U/W Miracles. Some miracle lists run CB in the board, some maindeck.
I personally have a single volcanic and single underground sea for sideboard options like E-Plague and Blood Moon. It also lets me EE 4 for stuff like Jace.
I'm not sure about the other match-ups, but my testing with CounterTop against Goblins is that you need to be heavily anti-aggro to win against that deck. With Lackey, Vial, and Cavern of Souls, they will render Counterbalance almost useless (unless you're protecting something like Moat). Their fantastically 4-drop heavy curve will also stymie CounterTop until they get one of their 11+ outs online.
I've generally had a bad time piloting CounterTop against Goblins.
Against Goblins, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility are all tech against goblins. Pre-Board, they have no outs to moat except Seige-gang, and they need an early lackey to get even close to killing you.
G2, I side out my counterbalances, counterspells, leaving in Force + Pierce for vials and Anarchy. I board in Engineered Plague, Cursed totem and surgicals. Hitting a matron or ringleader with surgical can greatly slow down their plans and options. I have a pretty good matchup against goblins, probably 60/40 or better in my favor. Terminus is also pretty house against them. I like to float one on top of my library with Top, wait for them to overextend a bit (Dropping their singleton Krenko, Seige-gang) or something, then pulling ahead for the win.
Counterbalance is not well-placed in the current meta.
Just look at the tier one decks and then find their MU percentages against Counterbalance. It's very clear.
I think Counterbalance will rotate back into tier one/two after Storm strategies discover how to play against Mental Misstep.
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
Now that we don't have Mental Misstep, Countertop will come back to counter storm and combo (that will come back as a result of banning).
I'm running an old Countertop progenitus (bant) version. Something along the lines of this:
3x Trop Island
3x Tundra
7-9 Fetches
3x Basics
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Rhox War Monk
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Trygon Predator
1x Vendilion Clique
4x Tops
4x Counterbalance
1x Progenitus
3x Natural Order
4x FoW
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshare
SB includes SFM package (for aggro), Krosan Grip (for artifact/enchant), and Relic of Progenitus (for graveyard hate)
Might need to readjust SB, but deck performed all right. Beat Spliter Twin combo deck. Lost to merfolk, but that was because of some bad draws (I was able to hardcast FoW... that's how bad).
Creatures:
3 Tombstalker
2 Trinket Mage
2 Vendillion Clique
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Spells:
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Dismember
1 Snuff Out
1 Go For The Throat
3 Fire/Ice
2 Counterspell
Lands:
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
I feel like I need a 2nd Jace and i've been toying around the idea of adding in Spellsputter Sprites as some Tempo/Control. I don't think this deck specifically needs Snapcaster Mages because it's targets aren't quite as broad because of the combo. This deck has a huge issue with aggro decks, but a decent match-up against the slower decks. Also, as an aside, I do not like playing 4 FoWs in here because I don't feel like I ever want 2 in my hand.
Comments/Suggestions are much appreciated!
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Sower of Temptation
Instant 16
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare
Sorcery 2
2 Firespout
Planeswalker 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifact 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
Land 22
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Riptide Laboratory
4 Spell Pierce
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Firespout
2 Path to Exile
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
Counterbalance CMC Information
1: 14
2: 13
3: 4
4: 3
5: 4
Force of Will Blue Count: 24
I don't know overall, because I just started playing a countertop deck - but I have played against a couple different combo decks a few different times, and I don't think it's just 'said to be good vs. combo'. Get top resolved turn 1, and get CB resolved turn 2 - if you untap and just chill and play draw-go and keep a one and two drop on top of your deck, you're probably going to win.
I don't think *I* could win a tournament with it, and I think you need to sideboard against the fast aggro decks (oh, how I wish I had a moat in paper), but I'm not all that great a pilot. And that makes me think it's even better against combo in the hands of a good pilot, because I haven't lost to a combo deck since I picked it up and I don't think I'm all that great shakes as a player This is not to say I think that I won't lose to a combo deck. Just that I haven't yet and it seems really good so far.
The one combo deck I beat that might be trouble is the dump-enchantments-to-the-graveyard, bring-them-all-back, then turn them into guys deck, because it has a lot of drops that are higher than 1, 2. That deck, and I don't know about enchantress, because I haven't played it yet. But four horseman and storm seemed no trouble at all.
Counterbalance
Brainstorm
Ponder
Predict
Force of Will
Counterspell
Spell Snare
Daze
Snapcaster Mage [w/Riptide Laboratory]
Vendilion Clique [w/Riptide Laboratory, Karakas]
Sower of Temptation [w/Riptide Laboratory]
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Cunning Wish
--Forbid
--Capsize
--Wing Shards
--Ancient Grudge
--Krosan Grip
--Pyroblast
--Red Elemental Blast
--Hydroblast
--Blue Elemental Blast
--Extirpate
--Surgical Extraction
--Swords to Plowshares
--Path to Exile
--Ray of Revelation
--Misdirection
--Divert
Trinket Mage
--Phyrexian Dreadnought [w/Stifle]
--Engineered Explosives
--Basilisk Collar [w/Grim Lavamancer]
--Pithing Needle
--Seat of the Synod
Blue SB:
Spell Pierce
Flusterstorm
Dispel
Annul
Envelop
Propaganda
White Splash MD:
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Stoneforge Mystic
--Batterskull
--Sword of Feast and Famine
--Sword of Fire and Ice
--Sword of Body and Mind
--Umezawa's Jitte
--Sword of the Meek [w/Thopter Foundry]
--Manriki-Gusari
Enlightened Tutor
--Engineered Explosives [w/Academy Ruins]
--Crucible of Worlds [w/Mishra's Factory, Wasteland]
--Ensnaring Bridge
--Humility
--Moat
--Oblivion Ring
--Pithing Needle
--Thopter Foundry
--Sword of the Meek
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Wheel of Sun and Moon
--Chill
--Energy Flux
--Blood Moon
--Back to Basics
--Aura of Silence
--The Abyss
--Nether Void
White Splash SB:
Wrath of God
Day of Judgment
Disenchant
Peacekeeper
Ray of Revelation
Green Splash MD:
Tarmogoyf
Rhox War Monk
Firespout
Knight of the Reliquary
--Bojuka Bog
--Wasteland
--Maze of Ith
--Tower of the Magistrate
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Natural Order
--Noble Hierarch
--Dryad Arbor
--Progenitus
Living Wish
--Gaddock Teeg
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
--Bojuka Bog
--Llawan, Cephalid Empress
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Faerie Macabre
--Peacekeeper
--Qasali Pridemage
Green Splash SB:
Krosan Grip
Nature's Claim
Red Splash MD:
Grim Lavamancer
Firespout
Red Splash SB:
Ancient Grudge
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast
Black Splash MD:
Dark Confidant
Dismember
Diabolic Edict
Black Splash SB:
Leyline of the Void
Surgical Extraction
Extirpate
edit: if someone else could fill in all the stuff that i've missed, perhaps we could collaboratively make a comprehensive 'design decision tree' for the head post, because i suspect that once the metagame corrects itself, this deck will become viable again
nb: some of these options [such as cunning wish] are obviously not ideal or typical, however, they exist and the more data listed only increases options
Creatures
3x Dark Confidant
3x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Venser, the Sojourner
Artifacts
4x Sensei's Divinning Top
2x Ensnaring Bridge
Enchantement
3x Counterbalance
Spells
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to plowshares
4x Force of will
3x Absorb
2x Vindicate
2x Wrath of god
1x Enlightened tutor
Lands
4x Tundra
4x Underground Sea
2x Reflecting Pool
2x Riptide Laboratory
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains
Comments are welcome !
1 plains
2 tundra
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 mishra's factory
2 scalding tarn
2 misty rainforest
2 wasteland
1 academy ruins
4 stifle
2 trickbind
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
2 counterspell
4 enlightened tutor
3 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
3 phyrexian dreadnought
3 snapcaster mage
2 jace, the mind sculptor
With enlightened tutor I can use a sb full of enchantments and artifacts such as:
I figured it would be a little faster than pyroclasm because you don't need to get the fetch, get the dual land, and then get the pyroclasm.
I have been winning quite a few games with intuition into life from the loam, punishing fire, and grove of the burnwillows.
Here is my list so far:
1 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
1 Academy Ruins
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Volcanic Island
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
Creatures
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Intuition
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
1 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Dismember
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Firespout
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
I admit the list could still use more testing and more tweeking but I have been happy with it so far.
Depending on the matchup, I usually try to assemble the countertop lock first before I do anything else. Either it's implementing goyf beats, fatesealing with Jace, and/or finally grabbing loam, grove, and punishing fire through Intuition. While if all else fails I also have a pair of thruns in the board to also seal the deal too.
I played in a small tourney (30-40 peeps) and did alright 3-2 and drob.
I would like to do better and I am sure I would be able to when I get to know the deck a bit.
The list I was running:
3 Tropical Island
2 Grove of the burnwillows
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Jace, the Mind sculptor
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
It worked alright however I made a few changes afterwards and wants to try this out next time.
1 Tropical Island
4 Grove of the burnwillows
4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Punishing Fire
2 Counterspell
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Jace, the Mind sculptor
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
Any suggestions?
The sideboard is a mess right now, and my meta is very diverse so being able to deal with very different decks is a plus.
Thanks for any responses.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
Banner by Rivenor @
Miraculous Recovery Signatures
Trade List:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=351191
if your running snapcaster try running riptide laboratory it has amazing snyergy with that card.you would only need 1.
thanks to rivenor for the awesome sig
Legacy
WGUPounding DenialUGW
GForceBreakerG
I've generally had a bad time piloting CounterTop against Goblins.
Temporal Mastery isn't that great. It's usually an explore.
The best miracles to use right now are Terminus and Entreat the Angels. They are amazing. EoT Terminus with top or brainstorm, then landing Jace next turn is BACKBREAKING against the fair decks like Maverick or Goblins.
The two countertop decks that I've seen gain a bit of popularity lately has been UWx Thopterbalance and U/W Miracles. Some miracle lists run CB in the board, some maindeck.
I personally have a single volcanic and single underground sea for sideboard options like E-Plague and Blood Moon. It also lets me EE 4 for stuff like Jace.
Against Goblins, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility are all tech against goblins. Pre-Board, they have no outs to moat except Seige-gang, and they need an early lackey to get even close to killing you.
G2, I side out my counterbalances, counterspells, leaving in Force + Pierce for vials and Anarchy. I board in Engineered Plague, Cursed totem and surgicals. Hitting a matron or ringleader with surgical can greatly slow down their plans and options. I have a pretty good matchup against goblins, probably 60/40 or better in my favor. Terminus is also pretty house against them. I like to float one on top of my library with Top, wait for them to overextend a bit (Dropping their singleton Krenko, Seige-gang) or something, then pulling ahead for the win.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
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Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
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