I love this deck and want to continue playing it, does anyone have any info about what Zendikar will bring to the table for Sliver Decks?
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it's not "specificlty" for slivers, but the new mythic blue trap is going to be a staple of most legacy/vintage decks to stop storm decks. they're already pre-selling on ebay for over 50/playset
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
it's not "specificlty" for slivers, but the new mythic blue trap is going to be a staple of most legacy/vintage decks to stop storm decks. they're already pre-selling on ebay for over 50/playset
It'll die down when people realize it isn't as effective as they think. Unless you are forcing them to go off without protection via massive attacks, this will just get Duressed or Chanted. It does seem good in Slivers because of this, but Stifle is just as good of an answer that also hits things like EE, Deed, Storm, Goblin Triggers, etc.
Basically what I am saying is the price will drop so hold off buying them and that I think Stifle is probably the better call.
I read the card, and i agree. looks more like a SB card and thats not too thrilling. Also because it costs 0 when trapping any color deck may use it for their SB. For this reason it might stay higher in price for a while longer. To be honest though. I prefer stifle.
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Stifle seems better than the new "trap" card....for one it is a lot more versatile and there are a million and one triggers or activated abilities in legacy. But post nauseam the ANT player should always win unless they went off at a low life and didn't get every card they wanted because they have chant, duress, and pact of negation. Don't let the price tag fool you.
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He's referring to the new Zendikar fetchlands for enemy colors.
There's no reason to play more than 6-8 fetchlands, of course. The UWg build will want to play the new UG fetchland (Misty Rainforest?) in addition to Flooded Strands.
What fetches would you run in a UWgb build with the new zen fetches in?
I'd stick with 4 Strands + 4 Deltas for UWgb. You still won't really be able to run any non-island basics, so there's no point to playing any of the new fetches.
Well I currently don't have any of the onslaught fetches but I am planning on buying a box or 2 of zendikar because I'll need those fetches for extended (which is the format I play)
Good finish bro! Surprisingly a u/g madness placed 2nd???? That's unheard of in a while. Anyway good job, lackey does prove to be too much if you don't have answer on turn one:)
MTG Legacy Tournament Report - Friday 11th September
Fourteen Players, four rounds. I played Counter-Slivers for a change from my usual Merfolk.
First Place: Goblins
Second Place: U/G Madness (A Deck with no rares)
Third Place: Me with Slivers!
I am extremely pleased to hear people are placing with CounterSlivers! Just one thing, could you post your Deck and SB you ran when you played? I want to get this thread going again, Your list might prove helpfull. Also comment on anything you think you might change the next time you play with it. Thanks!
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Thoughts -
* I Boarded a lot of artifact hate as I new Meta was Artifact heavy, I just did not play many of them.
* Worship is usually maindeck when playing casual, but thought it would be too slow for tournament. It helped win me one game & (if drawn) would of helped against Goblins.
* Will add a Fetch for 19 Lands next time as I struggled with mana in a couple of games. Really liked Mutavault, but not sure I can run 3 colourless lands...
* Talon Slivers were MVP for keeping the team alive, could do with a third.
Planned Changed drop Standstil for Fetch & Stifle. Maybe drop a Brainstorm for a Talon Sliver.
I would think Worship would be awesome in here alongside Crystalline. The other top decks don't really run any shrouders so it's easy to see why it's not played that often
Worship is a good card. I do not personally run it. When I had it in the SB i never put it in against almost anything so after a while i just used those slots for Pithing Needle. Not a lot of people that play Slivers run needle in SB but i actualy have had a lot of good use for it.
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Slivers only weakness are things that don't target them. A lot (not all) of those problems are solved on the spot with a resolved Pithing Needle. MB it blows but, SB as a 2 of is amazing. I have tried running more in the SB but I simply can not find enough room in the SB for more of them.
I hope this explanation helps.
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Depends on what they are playing. Its not like i go for the fetches before anything else but at the same time a turn 1 needle calling their fetchers can spell defeat for them game 2 if they didnt see it coming. If they used a fetch already calling the remaining 2-3 in their deck isnt worth while.
Needle is a 1 tool. The more you use it the more you'll love it.
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Cb/Top will only ever counter 1 and maybe 2 cost spells. there are not enough other costs in the "common" counterslivers deck to run that. also vial is what makes the deck go, basically you swing they think they might have it, they assign blockers and wham, you vial a sinew in to change the whole thing, or better you drop in a crystalline sliver right after then target your slivers with something. have a sliver come into play at the ends of their turn to swing on your next keeps the opponent off balance. besides, where could you find 7 slots for 4 CB and 3 Top anyways? It would strip the deck of its speed and probably make match ups that much harder imo.
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It would "work" since most Legacy decks have fetches and tutors and whatnot, unless you plan on hard-casting. But for max benefit you should probably have 3-4, which means taking 3-4 cards out that probably do more good. My idea of that card is that while milling all those cards is nice, and likely makes it harder for them to win, it doesn't help YOU win in a very direct fashion. I say that without having tested, of course, but putting Glimpse the Unthinkable in the deck, which has a similar effect, doesn't feel right either, since the MO of the deck is to win by damage.
But it certainly would be a surprise. As a one-of, if you can play it after a turn-1 fetch or something, your opponent would have to at least take it into consideration.
But speaking of new cards that make me wonder, what about Beastmaster Ascension? I know, it's a win-more card, and is subject to bounce/destruction/counter, but I like it. I pulled it at the pre-re and it was very saucy when I played it. Given a swarm of creatures, it can go "active" a couple turns after coming into play. Eh, it's probably great against certain matchups and lame against others. More
Is it just me or has there been relatively nothing added to this deck from Zen that "beefs its power", I mean no slivers, traps that don't really do what we need or do something new that this deck already can't do or any new cards that will "do the job better". If anyone thinks otherwise please list your decklist with some Zen cards. Please be aware though that if you are taking something out, what i want is that the Zen cards do something better that what was already in those spots and like said above, makes the deck more powerful. Also, please don't just say the new fetch lands.
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It would "work" since most Legacy decks have fetches and tutors and whatnot, unless you plan on hard-casting. But for max benefit you should probably have 3-4, which means taking 3-4 cards out that probably do more good. My idea of that card is that while milling all those cards is nice, and likely makes it harder for them to win, it doesn't help YOU win in a very direct fashion. I say that without having tested, of course, but putting Glimpse the Unthinkable in the deck, which has a similar effect, doesn't feel right either, since the MO of the deck is to win by damage.
But it certainly would be a surprise. As a one-of, if you can play it after a turn-1 fetch or something, your opponent would have to at least take it into consideration.
Random milling doesn't accomplish anything.
Throwing half my deck into the grave doesn't actually do anything. Sure, it sucks to see random great cards just go in the grave since now I won't be able to draw them, but there was a good chance those cards could have been in the bottom portion of my deck and I would have never seen them anyway. That's the attitude you have to have when you have cards milled away; you had a good chance of never seeing them anyway (since it is equally likely they are at the bottom or top of your deck unless you used Enlightened Tutor type effects). Milling away portions of my library does, on the other hand, let me know what I am now more likely to draw due to seeing what is already in the grave so it lets me make risk taking decisions a little easier.
If your pair this with something like Extirpate or Haunting Echoes, then sure it's useful but that's an awfully narrow application and you'd get the same effect by just pairing with discard rather than milling.
You should either go all out on milling someone, or not at all.
Is it just me or has there been relatively nothing added to this deck from Zen that "beefs its power", I mean no slivers, traps that don't really do what we need or do something new that this deck already can't do or any new cards that will "do the job better". If anyone thinks otherwise please list your decklist with some Zen cards. Please be aware though that if you are taking something out, what i want is that the Zen cards do something better that what was already in those spots and like said above, makes the deck more powerful. Also, please don't just say the new fetch lands.
The problem is that anything that beefs this deck, short of awesome new slivers, is also going to beef Merfolk, Thresh, and all the other blue-based aggro-control decks that for the most part are arguably better than this one. Maybe in a couple years, when they print the next cycle of slivers, this deck will get some sort of boost, but I doubt it. I think the best slivers have already been printed, and this deck has nowhere to go but downhill. I mean, what is Wizards going to do? Print a 1-mana muscle sliver? Unlikely.
EDIT: Probably the best "boost" that this deck could get would be for Wizards to ban Tarmogoyf, which is slightly more likely than us getting an amazing new sliver, but still, don't hold your breath.
They gave goblins and elves new cards. When can it be Slivers' turn? I agree with the above post however. Goyf being banned would be really awesome for decks like Slivers. (for any deck that doesnt need goyf for that matter)
PS: No im not going to hold my breath either hehe.
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It'll die down when people realize it isn't as effective as they think. Unless you are forcing them to go off without protection via massive attacks, this will just get Duressed or Chanted. It does seem good in Slivers because of this, but Stifle is just as good of an answer that also hits things like EE, Deed, Storm, Goblin Triggers, etc.
Basically what I am saying is the price will drop so hold off buying them and that I think Stifle is probably the better call.
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He's referring to the new Zendikar fetchlands for enemy colors.
There's no reason to play more than 6-8 fetchlands, of course. The UWg build will want to play the new UG fetchland (Misty Rainforest?) in addition to Flooded Strands.
I'd stick with 4 Strands + 4 Deltas for UWgb. You still won't really be able to run any non-island basics, so there's no point to playing any of the new fetches.
I am extremely pleased to hear people are placing with CounterSlivers! Just one thing, could you post your Deck and SB you ran when you played? I want to get this thread going again, Your list might prove helpfull. Also comment on anything you think you might change the next time you play with it. Thanks!
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I would think Worship would be awesome in here alongside Crystalline. The other top decks don't really run any shrouders so it's easy to see why it's not played that often
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Slivers only weakness are things that don't target them. A lot (not all) of those problems are solved on the spot with a resolved Pithing Needle. MB it blows but, SB as a 2 of is amazing. I have tried running more in the SB but I simply can not find enough room in the SB for more of them.
I hope this explanation helps.
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Needle is a 1 tool. The more you use it the more you'll love it.
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But it certainly would be a surprise. As a one-of, if you can play it after a turn-1 fetch or something, your opponent would have to at least take it into consideration.
But speaking of new cards that make me wonder, what about Beastmaster Ascension? I know, it's a win-more card, and is subject to bounce/destruction/counter, but I like it. I pulled it at the pre-re and it was very saucy when I played it. Given a swarm of creatures, it can go "active" a couple turns after coming into play. Eh, it's probably great against certain matchups and lame against others. More
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Random milling doesn't accomplish anything.
Throwing half my deck into the grave doesn't actually do anything. Sure, it sucks to see random great cards just go in the grave since now I won't be able to draw them, but there was a good chance those cards could have been in the bottom portion of my deck and I would have never seen them anyway. That's the attitude you have to have when you have cards milled away; you had a good chance of never seeing them anyway (since it is equally likely they are at the bottom or top of your deck unless you used Enlightened Tutor type effects). Milling away portions of my library does, on the other hand, let me know what I am now more likely to draw due to seeing what is already in the grave so it lets me make risk taking decisions a little easier.
If your pair this with something like Extirpate or Haunting Echoes, then sure it's useful but that's an awfully narrow application and you'd get the same effect by just pairing with discard rather than milling.
You should either go all out on milling someone, or not at all.
The problem is that anything that beefs this deck, short of awesome new slivers, is also going to beef Merfolk, Thresh, and all the other blue-based aggro-control decks that for the most part are arguably better than this one. Maybe in a couple years, when they print the next cycle of slivers, this deck will get some sort of boost, but I doubt it. I think the best slivers have already been printed, and this deck has nowhere to go but downhill. I mean, what is Wizards going to do? Print a 1-mana muscle sliver? Unlikely.
EDIT: Probably the best "boost" that this deck could get would be for Wizards to ban Tarmogoyf, which is slightly more likely than us getting an amazing new sliver, but still, don't hold your breath.
PS: No im not going to hold my breath either hehe.
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