This thread is for the discussion of BUG landstill only. BUG Landstill has been known to be a solid deck for a couple of years now especially with the printing of Jace the mindsculptor. Out of all of the control decks, BUG Landstill seems to have the most power with deed, Jace, life from the loam, and standstill.
Well, actually, maze of ith is pretty good so I would agree. I remember playing landstill with both tolaria west and maze of ith. Players wouldn't expect maze of ith but probably the main reason why maze of ith isn't played is because it's a land that doesn't even produce generic mana. But then again when I played maze of ith, I ran about 25 lands or so.
Hey could someone help me with my lands? It usually flows very well but sometimes the colorless mana from the mishra or wasteland really bites. Here's the deck:
Oh, and what's so good about life from loam? I never got that.
Card advantage. Synergy with Brainstorm and Jace, the Mind Sculptor (allows you to put Lands back on top). Wasteland-lock. Undying Mishra's Factory. You can run less lands. Gets rid of dead cards you Brainstorm'd back on top with Dredge. And more!
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Legacy Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
If there is no bayou or basic forest/swamp Flooded strand is as good as any blue fetch land. Maybe 2/2/2/2 blue fetch split would be optimal to avoid theoretical Pithin Needle or Surgical Extraction on specific fetch.
Well Landstill has always been a deck that has to be tailored for specific metagame so its pretty hard to judge your choices to play mass discard over creature removal and additional counters. Depends solely on what kind of decks you play against. Tombstalkers seems like an interesting win condition to speed up things and avoid draws. Life from the loam / Crucible of the Worlds is nice addition on any slow deck that plays wastelands and green but its not necessity. Mishra`s Factories / Fetches also add some value as you can get those back with Loam but it all comes down to if you can wasteland lock enough people. You could also cut just a fetch land for Loam if you want as you Loam works as mana source if you have 2 mana available and fetch on grave.
Loam-waste lock is really good even vs Zoo. Unintuitive but true.
Some of cards you might want to consider (perhaps over discard): Counterspell, Maze of Ith / Some spot removal, Engineered Explosives (as additional mass removal) and if you have many of those Academy Ruins. But Hymns / Thoughtseize are just fine really. If you manage without maindecked removal then all better.
Well the reason I go with mass discard over spot in the board is because this is how I play: 1. I make them discard almost everything. 2. I counter whatever they try to play. 3. If they get through all the discard and counterspell, I just board wipe with deed. 4. Then I just win with tombstalker, mishra, and sometimes with jace. When it flows, it's great but when it doesn't, especially because I can't play hymn because I don't have the land to produce 2 black mana because I drew mishra or waste and a dual or fetchland, it's kind of fragile. I mean, I can play hymn later but sometimes it's too late to make hymn useful. I just need to get the mana base right. I know it's risky, but I'm really thinking of just taking out the mishra for more colored lands.
I like the idea of maze of ith and life from the loam though. Counterspell doesn't impress me, as it would have the same problem as hymn. I would rather play chalice of the void then engineered explosives. Actually, chalice of the void sounds really good. What do you guys think?
Life of the Loam seems to make new choices. I would play it with forbid, crucible, and sensei's diving top with it, crucible and top being mandatory. Maze of ith would go hand in hand with it.
EDIT - just thought of two things.
1. Gemstone mine goes really well with crucible and loam. Would fix my color screw problem.
2. Blitterblossom should be a win con for this deck. It fits in the deck perfectly!!
EDIT #2
Okay, I think I have the deck to near perfection:
Works really well now. It seems the only kill I need is pernicous deed in the deck. Flows very well now. Really want to fit 3 Blitterblossom in the deck though. That would make it perfect.
Well the reason I go with mass discard over spot in the board is because this is how I play: 1. I make them discard almost everything. 2. I counter whatever they try to play. 3. If they get through all the discard and counterspell, I just board wipe with deed. 4. Then I just win with tombstalker, mishra, and sometimes with jace.
Not to be contrary, but it sounds like you should just go play Team America (the original versions without Confidant). They're very similar decks, but the strategy you are suggesting seems like it is way more like TA than landstill.
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I played against a BUG landstill deck last week that had Dark Confidants and Tarmogoyfs in the board, which he was able to bring in against decks that either didn't have or were siding out creature removal. I didn't get to talk to the guy much about it, so I wanted to ask if anyone has seen this strategy used before, and if so what decks you did it against, and what you usually sided out for the creature base. Standstill?
In general, if the primer is getting updated, I'd love some general concepts about how you sideboard this deck: i.e. when you pull Standstill itself, and any sort of concept about how to play the Standstill Mirror. I'm seriously considering trying this deck next, and any help would be appreciated.
Finally someone posts on the BUG Landstill thread. Well I have a totally new type of BUG Landstill deck. It might need a new different thread, but it's similar too the original BUG Landstill so I'll post it here.
The utility of Living Wish hasjust been absolutley fantastic. I almsot always have answers to any deck even in game 1. Living wish goes well with the whole deck. The only thing that has me worried is that I may need more blue cards for force of will. (It was only once, but once I had to hard cast Force of Will because I had no blue cards in hand). I have played 8 games with deck and have only lost once. The decks I have played against are Affinity, Zoo, Bant, BUG Landstill, Team America, Hive Mind, No RUG (With Natural Order), and Merfolk. My loss was by Hive Mind.
I dig it. The only thing I feel like I'd miss, and this comes without ever even sleeving it up, is a basic Counterspell. 23 cards is more than enough for Force (and by the way, hardcasting it is perfectly valid), but I feel like I'd want a way to counter something early when I don't want to lose card advantage from Force.
To that end, what exactly are the bitterblossoms, thoughtseizes, and tops doing for you? I'd rather trade those 7 cards in for 2-4 counterspells/spell snares, and then a few removal spells (i.e. Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict). I really do like the Living Wish package though.
What are this deck's weaker match ups? I'm currently playing merfolk and recently got trounced by this deck. BUG sticks a Pernicious Deed, and I've got to hold back or get blown out. I try to reassemble my forces after that, but at that point BUG has a Jace, the Mind Sculptor going, or they're recurring Wasteland for my man lands with a crucible (and recurring fetches to get up on land, which makes Daze worthless). I brought in Pithing Needle for Jace and Deed (or their man lands), but unfortunately never drew them.
I dig it. The only thing I feel like I'd miss, and this comes without ever even sleeving it up, is a basic Counterspell. 23 cards is more than enough for Force (and by the way, hardcasting it is perfectly valid), but I feel like I'd want a way to counter something early when I don't want to lose card advantage from Force.
To that end, what exactly are the bitterblossoms, thoughtseizes, and tops doing for you? I'd rather trade those 7 cards in for 2-4 counterspells/spell snares, and then a few removal spells (i.e. Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict). I really do like the Living Wish package though.
J
Counterspell does sound good.
Blitterblossom acts as my second win con and also fodder for my avatar of woe. (I kill the faeries so their is ten creatures in all graveyards and play avatar) Works great with standstill. Noones playing spells while your making more creatures.
Thoughtseize "removes" any nonland permanent I don't want them to play. If something gets played I just wipe it with pernicious deed.
Top is a singleton, but I think it's a must. It helps me search for anything I need and really helps me dig for crucible.
What are this deck's weaker match ups? I'm currently playing merfolk and recently got trounced by this deck. BUG sticks a Pernicious Deed, and I've got to hold back or get blown out. I try to reassemble my forces after that, but at that point BUG has a Jace, the Mind Sculptor going, or they're recurring Wasteland for my man lands with a crucible (and recurring fetches to get up on land, which makes Daze worthless). I brought in Pithing Needle for Jace and Deed (or their man lands), but unfortunately never drew them.
Surprisingly, I found Hive Mind to be very competitive. Zoo also sometimes gives the deck problems when they are on a roll. Also, if they're able to wasteland your lands when your playing merfolk (excluding mutavaults of course) you're not playing merfolk right.
Also, does anyone know of a creature that has an ability that lets you spotkill? Sometimes I find that there isn't ten creatures in all graveyards for avatar of woe and I'm trying to find a replacement.
Does anyone know of a creature that has an ability that lets you spotkill? Sometimes I find that there isn't ten creatures in all graveyards for avatar of woe and I'm trying to find a replacement. (Also found I been playing wrong).
Does anyone know of a creature that has an ability that lets you spotkill? Sometimes I find that there isn't ten creatures in all graveyards for avatar of woe and I'm trying to find a replacement. (Also found I been playing wrong).
yeah, big game hunter seems like the best but my problem with it is that it's not very good against zoo (they almost always stay under power of 4) and you can only use it once. Visara the Dreadful would fix both my problems but then makes a new problem of the mana cost being too high...
Shriekmaw, bone shredder, and big game hunter are the only options really since anything above cmc 3 is quite slow/bad. I'd go with shriekmaw as long as you don't run into black decks too often. Big game hunter is quite solid and bone shredder is basically shriekmaw with echo and cmc 3. Shriekmaw is just better IMO.
On the living wish. Wouldn't you prefer cunning wish since it's an instant? I've seen builds of landstill of all colors run cunning wish to success in the past and I honestly think it's better than living wish in terms of utility. You can grab FoF, creature removal, GY hate, etc. etc. and the instant speed ability of the card is the best reason for it.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I think part of the reason you need a repeatable creature kill card in your board is because you don't run any maindeck removal. Most BUG Landstill lists run 8 ways to win (4 Jace and 4 Factory), and you're running 13 (2 Bitterblossom and 4 Living Wish, -1 Factory). I'd seriously recommend cutting the bitterblossoms and maybe a Thoughtseize or two to fit some removal in. I think then you'll find that your living wishes get better, because you're able to go get the best creature for the situation out of your board, instead of just getting a way to kill the thing thats killing you.
some of lists BUG-Still Lists with good placement in bigger events are runnig 3 Thoughtseize in the SB..
is this just to improve the Combo MU? what other puroses does this serve?
does this deck really need pointed discard...i can see it being strong, but i would like to "seize" some "thoughts" or hear some experiance...
This is my SB at the moment.
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Smother
1 GftT
3 Engineered Plague -> i am not very happy with these slots, i could see the Thoughtseize here insted. EP can be very good, but it seams that i am the only one playing this card in the SB...
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2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Island
3 Flooded Strand
Spells
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Mental Misstep
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
1 Go for the Throat
1 Smother
3 Spell Snare
1 Innocent Blood
2 Life from the Loam
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Ghastly Demise
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
Cabal_chan: The old thread for reference; http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=168250
btw, I love this deck. It's so much more fun than UW Landstill.
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
There is a thread about BUG landstill, it's as of now stickied. You can find that thread here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=168250. It's been here for almost a couple of years now.
However, cabal chan asked me to write an updated primer on ugb landstill and that's what this is.
Ah, that makes more sense. I was like "wtf? There's not a thread on BUG Landstill?"
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
would they be better off as mistys or deltas?
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Mental Misstep
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
3 Thoughtseize
1 Island
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Damnation
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Go for the Throat
3 Krosan Grip
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Vendilion Clique
Oh, and what's so good about life from loam? I never got that.
Card advantage. Synergy with Brainstorm and Jace, the Mind Sculptor (allows you to put Lands back on top). Wasteland-lock. Undying Mishra's Factory. You can run less lands. Gets rid of dead cards you Brainstorm'd back on top with Dredge. And more!
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
Well the reason I go with mass discard over spot in the board is because this is how I play: 1. I make them discard almost everything. 2. I counter whatever they try to play. 3. If they get through all the discard and counterspell, I just board wipe with deed. 4. Then I just win with tombstalker, mishra, and sometimes with jace. When it flows, it's great but when it doesn't, especially because I can't play hymn because I don't have the land to produce 2 black mana because I drew mishra or waste and a dual or fetchland, it's kind of fragile. I mean, I can play hymn later but sometimes it's too late to make hymn useful. I just need to get the mana base right. I know it's risky, but I'm really thinking of just taking out the mishra for more colored lands.
I like the idea of maze of ith and life from the loam though. Counterspell doesn't impress me, as it would have the same problem as hymn. I would rather play chalice of the void then engineered explosives. Actually, chalice of the void sounds really good. What do you guys think?
Life of the Loam seems to make new choices. I would play it with forbid, crucible, and sensei's diving top with it, crucible and top being mandatory. Maze of ith would go hand in hand with it.
EDIT - just thought of two things.
1. Gemstone mine goes really well with crucible and loam. Would fix my color screw problem.
2. Blitterblossom should be a win con for this deck. It fits in the deck perfectly!!
EDIT #2
Okay, I think I have the deck to near perfection:
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tombstalker
4 Brainstorm
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Life from the Loam
4 Mental Misstep
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
4 Thoughtseize
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Damnation
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Go for the Throat
3 Krosan Grip
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Vendilion Clique
Works really well now. It seems the only kill I need is pernicous deed in the deck. Flows very well now. Really want to fit 3 Blitterblossom in the deck though. That would make it perfect.
Not to be contrary, but it sounds like you should just go play Team America (the original versions without Confidant). They're very similar decks, but the strategy you are suggesting seems like it is way more like TA than landstill.
--
I played against a BUG landstill deck last week that had Dark Confidants and Tarmogoyfs in the board, which he was able to bring in against decks that either didn't have or were siding out creature removal. I didn't get to talk to the guy much about it, so I wanted to ask if anyone has seen this strategy used before, and if so what decks you did it against, and what you usually sided out for the creature base. Standstill?
In general, if the primer is getting updated, I'd love some general concepts about how you sideboard this deck: i.e. when you pull Standstill itself, and any sort of concept about how to play the Standstill Mirror. I'm seriously considering trying this deck next, and any help would be appreciated.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
I call it BUG Livingstill:
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Life from the Loam
4 Living Wish
4 Mental Misstep
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Standstill
4 Thoughtseize
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Damnation
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Go for the Throat
3 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Sower of Temptation
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wasteland
The utility of Living Wish hasjust been absolutley fantastic. I almsot always have answers to any deck even in game 1. Living wish goes well with the whole deck. The only thing that has me worried is that I may need more blue cards for force of will. (It was only once, but once I had to hard cast Force of Will because I had no blue cards in hand). I have played 8 games with deck and have only lost once. The decks I have played against are Affinity, Zoo, Bant, BUG Landstill, Team America, Hive Mind, No RUG (With Natural Order), and Merfolk. My loss was by Hive Mind.
To that end, what exactly are the bitterblossoms, thoughtseizes, and tops doing for you? I'd rather trade those 7 cards in for 2-4 counterspells/spell snares, and then a few removal spells (i.e. Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict). I really do like the Living Wish package though.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Counterspell does sound good.
Blitterblossom acts as my second win con and also fodder for my avatar of woe. (I kill the faeries so their is ten creatures in all graveyards and play avatar) Works great with standstill. Noones playing spells while your making more creatures.
Thoughtseize "removes" any nonland permanent I don't want them to play. If something gets played I just wipe it with pernicious deed.
Top is a singleton, but I think it's a must. It helps me search for anything I need and really helps me dig for crucible.
Surprisingly, I found Hive Mind to be very competitive. Zoo also sometimes gives the deck problems when they are on a roll. Also, if they're able to wasteland your lands when your playing merfolk (excluding mutavaults of course) you're not playing merfolk right.
Also, does anyone know of a creature that has an ability that lets you spotkill? Sometimes I find that there isn't ten creatures in all graveyards for avatar of woe and I'm trying to find a replacement.
J
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
You've been playing wrong. They go away immediately as a state based effect.
Here
The only card I really see is big game hunter.
Only good deck.
On the living wish. Wouldn't you prefer cunning wish since it's an instant? I've seen builds of landstill of all colors run cunning wish to success in the past and I honestly think it's better than living wish in terms of utility. You can grab FoF, creature removal, GY hate, etc. etc. and the instant speed ability of the card is the best reason for it.
Currently Playing:
Retired
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
is this just to improve the Combo MU? what other puroses does this serve?
does this deck really need pointed discard...i can see it being strong, but i would like to "seize" some "thoughts" or hear some experiance...
This is my SB at the moment.
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Smother
1 GftT
3 Engineered Plague -> i am not very happy with these slots, i could see the Thoughtseize here insted. EP can be very good, but it seams that i am the only one playing this card in the SB...