I just got the cards needed to start testing this yesterday. So over the next few weeks, I'll be giving some more input.
Here is the deck list I'm going with at the moment. I'm going with a UB version. I am keen on trying out the other colors suggested like white and maybe even a green splash. Time will tell though. Ancient Stirrings seems very sexy. Enlightened Tutor is tempting too; along with Orim's Chant.
Cabal Therapy is a MUST. Not only gets rid of threats, but it helps get combo pieces out of your hand if needed.
Careful Study I feel is probably needed. If you get stuck with a combo piece in your hand, your only other options are a Brainstorm or Therapy. Now, those two might be enough, I'm not sure. It needs more testing.
If Careful Study isn't needed, I'd go with Impulse. Such a great card. Or splash green for Ancient Stirrings.
@Nertris:
Not ready to ditch Careful Study just yet. I don't want to have to lean too hard on my Brainstorms to clean out my hand. The card disadvantage of Careful Study looks pretty attractive every time my opening seven contains one of them and several combo pieces. Also, I looked at Flash of Insight too. It is interesting, but I could not figure out how to use it in this deck.
I'm forgetting Shelldock Isle. Too many sacrifices to get it to work - if it works.
@navyjoe, I like the Blasting Station kill a bit better.
More testing and I hate facing Merfolk and Counterbalance.
I tried out Preordain in the Careful Study spot long enough to know that the deck needs Careful Study. I kept ending up with Force of Will and combo pieces because I was using my search cards and nothing else.
I want a real tutor instead of so much search. Intuition seems too slow.
Also, this deck really does not want to resolve Mesmeric Orb before Basalt Monolith. Too many of our cards let us rearrange the top of the deck only to have all the cards get taken.
Finn!! your basalt monolith and Mesmeric orb, may be the engine I have been looking for for my Legacy Dredgevine deck idea!! My problem has been getting all vengevines in the yard with conventional dredge, but this would prove to work, by Milling all your dudes and finding a way to cast something twice or bouncing some narcomoebas. But props for your deck idea I like it too.
Something is needed like a Gigapede, but his CMC is too big to trigger Vengevine.
Untaping the Basalt Monolith is your weak point. They can swords a narc in response, pop one of the artifacts, exile your grave ect...
I'm buy all the cards for this deck regardless, I just think It would be good to know where our Achilles' heel is.
I'm loving this deck! So freaking cool, and the resiliency against hate is just icing on the cake. I'm normally not a combo player, I stick with control, but with the FoW's and tearing apart hands that this deck does, and then winning through one of the coolest mechanisms I have seen in a long time... I just have to play it!
Losing one Narc to an StP definetely hurts, no denying that... and while I'm sure you can normally tear the StP's out of somebody's hand would it be worth playing a 4th - even in the side - against white decks packing StP's?
As far as untapping the Monolith being the weak point of the deck, I think that if you're afraid of that happening you can wait a turn to go off, leaving 3 mana untapped. That way, if they do anything shy of Krosan Grip (Split Second) you can untap and win in response. Most games I've goldfished, the hand control is SO fast and heavy that I would imagine most of the time they have no answers remaining by the time you play your win condition, unless they JUST top decked it before you go off.
This is what I would board out:
-1 Academy Rector
-1 Goblin Bombardment
-1 Angel of Despair
-3 Dread Return
-4 Narcomoeba
-4 Mesmeric Orb
-1 Basalt Monolith
Hi folks. I have intentionally been silent about this deck in preparation for SCG Orlando. But I am not liking the outlook for the metagame there, so I will not be playing this deck. Since I only get to a few tournaments a year, this means a long time until I get to take this pile. But it also means that I can freely talk about it.
Why doesn't this deck play pact of negation main deck? Its great on the combo turn. and if we side in hivemind...
OK. Hivemind is totally unplayable in Legacy. There is no way on this planet we are ever going to reliably get to 6 mana in this deck. And I will be dead before I use Academy Rector to get a card that does not insta-win (because I can do that and therefor should only do that). You would do well to write off that card immediately. pact of Negation is a possibility, but there are plenty of things to counter that do not happen on your final turn.
I have been tempted to try a transformation sideboard.
Me too. But I have not worked it out exactly. I think this deck is a good candidate for that sort of thing though.
Quote from The descent »
(about the link to an old deck)It's not that great but certainly could help... at least it's a similar engine with a different combo.
I think your list looks like it was good at the time. Although I will tell you that the wincon I am using atm (Sharuum and Blasting Station) is much harder to hate than Sutured Ghoul. It makes a huge difference.
I love that Mental Misstep doesn't hit either of the key pieces, but Surgical Extraction can be brutal.
If you side in the extra eldrazi and the extra Dread Return and wait a turn to go off, Surgical Extraction (as well as pretty much every other form of graveyard hate except for Extirpate, Leyline of the Void, and Wheel of Sun and Moon) does exactly...nothing. You do not have to draw these sb cards (in fact you are better off if you don't), and they are only even necessary if the opponent actually knows how to hurt you. Atm, pretty much nobody does. I have seen some really foolish uses of otherwise pertinent hate cards.
Would Gitaxian Probe be worth considering? The peek certainly helps gauge the right time to go off.
I have Gitaxian Probe proxies in right now. I am kinda meh about them so far.
Losing one Narc to an StP definetely hurts, no denying that... and while I'm sure you can normally tear the StP's out of somebody's hand would it be worth playing a 4th - even in the side - against white decks packing StP's?
Has not happened yet. The opponent would need Sensei's Divining Top and STP on the top of their library to make this possible. I think that you would have to be playing against a master who has figured out how to do this and also happened to assemble this defensive situation for this to ever be an issue. I would prefer that dead card to be defense or a search card.
sidebored one Crippling Fatigue
I like this idea, and I was playing with it briefly. If that card ever proves to be common enough to be a problem, I will return it to the sb. Thank you for the input.
Untaping the Basalt Monolith is your weak point. They can swords a narc in response, pop one of the artifacts, exile your grave ect...
They can never STP a Narcomoeba if you play smart. See the OP for the details. GY hateproofing is done with an extra eldrazi and an extra Dread Return from the sb. If the opponent has something like Krosan Grip, this works, but it only delays you a few turns. After hateproofing with those two cards from the sb, and if you waited a turn to go off (and therefor have 3 mana open) any artifact removal that does not have split second is useless in exactly the same way the graveyard hate is.
That is to say that if you play the deck right, only split second cards do anything at all once you are going off.
They can never STP a Narcomoeba if you play smart.
Ok you start milling and you hit a Narc, you go to untap monolith and they swords it? How do you dodge that?
Can you can untap monolith in response to the narc trigger and keep milling until you have all three on the stack? They all come into play [Edit: Can't they swords the first one in response to the second one?] and you dread return?
Edit because I'm a tard:
Do not let it resolve yet. Keep activating the Monolith with the Narcomoeba on the stack until you see a Cabal Therapy. When that happens allow the Narcomoeba to enter the Battlefield and, without passing priority, cast Cabal Therapy. The Narcomoeba will be safely back in your graveyard before your opponent can respond
Edit because I'm not a tard:
You have one narc on the stack and you are digging for therapy, you hit another narc. Now when the first one resolves, you can't therapy because his buddy is clogging the stack, you have to pass priority and they stp. What do?
That is a good point. I have not encountered that one yet - not against an opponent who has white anyway. I am sure that I would just keep going until Emrakul. They get removed from the stack when they change zones.
That is a good point. I have not encountered that one yet - not against an opponent who has white anyway. I am sure that I would just keep going until Emrakul. They get removed from the stack when they change zones.
I don't get it. I mean you have two narcs on the stack, you let the one resolve, you can't therapy yet so you have to pass priority and they STP it. I know the situation is one in a million, but I building the deck and kinda want to know how to play against that.
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At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
No worries, mate. If you have Narcomoeba triggers on the stack when Emrakul's trigger resolves, the Narcomoeba triggers are invalidated and removed from the stack because the Narcomoebas are no longer in your graveyard. So if you are milling and you get more than one before Cabal Therapy just keep going until you get to Emrakul with all the Narcomoeba triggers unresolved.
No worries, mate. If you have Narcomoeba triggers on the stack when Emrakul's trigger resolves, the Narcomoeba triggers are invalidated and removed from the stack because the Narcomoebas are no longer in your graveyard. So if you are milling and you get more than one before Cabal Therapy just keep going until you get to Emrakul with all the Narcomoeba triggers unresolved.
Thank you. for some reason I thought they floated in hyperspace when they were on the stack and emerakul wouldn't shuffle them in. I love how this deck abuses the crap out of the stack.
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At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Narc's trigger is also a "May". If you're afraid of StP with two Narc's triggers on the stack and a Cabal Therapy in the GY, just choose to NOT bring back the first trigger to resolve.
Any thoughts on using Dark Confidant in place of Ponder? Is it worth it to expose the deck to removal in order to try and draw more than one card? I have played around with the deck a little bit, and I seemed to find Ponder a bit lacking and 4 Careful Study to be 1 too many. I realize that Careful Study is very important for getting combo pieces out of hand, but that is all it really does. I find it hard to use as a dig spell, especially if topdecking. Dark Confidant would allow for extra draws that keep the disruption and draw coming. He draws, attacks for 2, and even chumps when necessary. The life hit alongside Thoughtseize and Vault can be a problem, but I think the upside might be worth it.
I basically share Dzy's thoughts on this deck.
It did happen to me to be able to hard cast a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on tourn 4 thanks to two Basalt Monolith and a Ancient Tomb. It's unlikely, but as we are there...I also like the Kozilek-Emrakul split between main deck and sideboard, as it helps in case of an extirpate on one of them.
We are still exposed (unless I'm missing something) to Tormod's Crypt if they crack it in response either to an untapping Basalt Monolith or to the trigger of Sharuum the Hegemon. In the first case we need 3 mana available to be able to restart (=comboing off a turn later), in the second case we need a cabal therapy and an extra dread return.
For reference, this is the deck list I'm currently testing.
I have to admit that I'm not running dual lands due to budget resriction. I think that even with duals I would stick to the 4 Ancient Tomb, 2 City of Traitors and 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, it makes the deck much faster. Undiscovered Paradise is the worst card of the deck, but I fell unconfortable in decreasing the land's count.
The choice of not running fow is not due to budget restrictions, I simply don't like it in this deck, as it can't fight our two worst enemies, extirpate and krosan grip.
I'm thinking to join a tournament with this list next Saturday. Any suggestion?
I'm thinking to join a tournament with this list next Saturday. Any suggestion?
Practice a bunch before you take this to a tournament. I tried to answer concerns about how to perform the tricks in the OP, but you really need to experience it yourself. If you know your deck much better than your opponent, you have a major advantage. There are several opportunities for the opponent to Crypt you at an inopportune moment. But if you play smart, you can work around his first Crypt entirely. Because the stack is this deck's friend, you can do lots of unfair things with it.
You would be foolish to not use FoW simply because it does not stop the split second cards. A combination of lesser measures taken as a whole are going to be much more common and just as effective as those.
For example: Qasali Pridemage will not end you by any stretch. But that plus a counterspell, a Wasteland, and a fast click probably will. Use the best cards you can even if it leaves you soft to the occasional specialized hate. Really.
Hey all! I've considered posting a comment on the Four Horsemen but have so far just been lurking. But no longer. When I first stumbled across this thread in its infancy, I found it because I was looking for decks that use Mesmeric Orb as, for the past five months, I've been working on my own, though budget, Mesmeric Orb deck called Orb Control.
Long story short, I found Finn's combo with Orb and Basalt to be incredibly awesome so I adopted that combo and went on my merry way working on my deck. Well, I came back to the Four Horsemen a week or so ago and have read through this entire thread. This is an absolutely awesome deck and I'm looking to build one for competitive Legacy play.
I have a question, however. My biggest concern with this deck is time. It's great that this deck can compete but are we going to get hit for slow play if we have to keep milling and shuffling our deck away to get our combo out? At the very least, it seems like it might be very irritating for other players to have to sit and wait while we spend the next few minutes doing this. And what happens when we side in an extra Eldrazi for the second and third games? Then it becomes much more difficult to get our three Narcos out and then get a dread return, sharuum and blasting station into the grave before hitting one of those Eldrazi.
All I'm saying is I fear that this deck is theoretically competitive (in that it can compete with other strong tournament decks) but not realistically competitive because of time constraints. Can anyone say more on this? Are my fears unfounded or are they legitimate?
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Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
That is a valid concern imo. I actually had some similar concerns myself when I was trying to figure out a wincon. The short answer is that you should not be called for either slow play or stalling just by playing the deck properly according to the floor rules. Unfortunately there are going judges who will screw this up if your opponent is pushy enough and willing to bend the rules to avoid losing. In larger events it is less likely to ever be a problem because you have more experienced judges.
I have been able to combo off immediately and I have had endless iterations without the proper sequence occurring.
You would be foolish to not use FoW simply because it does not stop the split second cards. A combination of lesser measures taken as a whole are going to be much more common and just as effective as those.
Finn, thanks for your comment, I appreciate that.
Also yesterday I managed to had some match with a friend of mine running burn, and I lost almost always. The reason is that my ancient tomb, City of Brass, gitaxian probe, Lim-Dul's Vault, Thoughtseize and even Forbidden Orchard were making half of his job. On top of that he was siding in Smash to Smithereens and red elemental blast while my side was not offering anything useful.
I guess I'll have similar problems with any aggro. Therefore I'll put this deck on hold until I won't manage to have a decent manabase. I'm also considering to have a combination of duress/Inquisition of Kozilek rather than the 4 Thoughtseize. But I suppose you had already seen all that in your testing, lol!
2 more ideas:
1) The Necrotic Ooze - Triskelion - Phyrexian Devourer combo should work as well as win con. It has the advantage of being immune to stifle and of eliminating one trigger which could be used to crack a crypt. However it takes one slot more
2) I saw that some of you was trying to fit Shelldock Isle in the main deck. What do you guys think about having the doomsday combo in the side rather? I can see it being useful in certain match-up.
1) The Necrotic Ooze - Triskelion - Phyrexian Devourer combo should work as well as win con. It has the advantage of being immune to stifle and of eliminating one trigger which could be used to crack a crypt. However it takes one slot more
I really like this idea. While the deck might not be as theoretically efficient, from a practical/time standpoint it should be much more wieldy for an actual tournament. Assuming a scenario where Emrakul, Ooze, Trisk and Devourer are all in your library with 3 Narcos in play, you have a 1 in 4 chance of winning without having to reshuffle once (i.e., Emrakul is the last of the four cards to be flipped). With the Blasting Station combo, you might need a few reshuffles to set up your GY even before you start pinging.
Here is the deck list I'm going with at the moment. I'm going with a UB version. I am keen on trying out the other colors suggested like white and maybe even a green splash. Time will tell though. Ancient Stirrings seems very sexy. Enlightened Tutor is tempting too; along with Orim's Chant.
4x Narcomoeba
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Basalt Monolith
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Academy Rector
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Angel of Despair
3x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Brainstorm
4x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Force of Will
2x Swamp
2x Island
4x Underground Sea
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Verdant Catacombs
Ideally I'd have 4x Polluted Delta.
Cabal Therapy is a MUST. Not only gets rid of threats, but it helps get combo pieces out of your hand if needed.
Careful Study I feel is probably needed. If you get stuck with a combo piece in your hand, your only other options are a Brainstorm or Therapy. Now, those two might be enough, I'm not sure. It needs more testing.
If Careful Study isn't needed, I'd go with Impulse. Such a great card. Or splash green for Ancient Stirrings.
I haven't put any thought into the SB yet.
Not ready to ditch Careful Study just yet. I don't want to have to lean too hard on my Brainstorms to clean out my hand. The card disadvantage of Careful Study looks pretty attractive every time my opening seven contains one of them and several combo pieces. Also, I looked at Flash of Insight too. It is interesting, but I could not figure out how to use it in this deck.
I'm forgetting Shelldock Isle. Too many sacrifices to get it to work - if it works.
@navyjoe, I like the Blasting Station kill a bit better.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Anyone else have a suggestion on what to replace?
More testing and I hate facing Merfolk and Counterbalance.
I tried out Preordain in the Careful Study spot long enough to know that the deck needs Careful Study. I kept ending up with Force of Will and combo pieces because I was using my search cards and nothing else.
I want a real tutor instead of so much search. Intuition seems too slow.
Also, this deck really does not want to resolve Mesmeric Orb before Basalt Monolith. Too many of our cards let us rearrange the top of the deck only to have all the cards get taken.
I love that Mental Misstep doesn't hit either of the key pieces, but Surgical Extraction can be brutal.
Would Gitaxian Probe be worth considering? The peek certainly helps gauge the right time to go off.
Don't loss to gaddok tegg
Wow i'm good at this game
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Shrieking Drake
Dread return it, pay UU....moooo
Wow im good at this game
Edit:
Untaping the Basalt Monolith is your weak point. They can swords a narc in response, pop one of the artifacts, exile your grave ect...
I'm buy all the cards for this deck regardless, I just think It would be good to know where our Achilles' heel is.
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Losing one Narc to an StP definetely hurts, no denying that... and while I'm sure you can normally tear the StP's out of somebody's hand would it be worth playing a 4th - even in the side - against white decks packing StP's?
As far as untapping the Monolith being the weak point of the deck, I think that if you're afraid of that happening you can wait a turn to go off, leaving 3 mana untapped. That way, if they do anything shy of Krosan Grip (Split Second) you can untap and win in response. Most games I've goldfished, the hand control is SO fast and heavy that I would imagine most of the time they have no answers remaining by the time you play your win condition, unless they JUST top decked it before you go off.
EDIT: I have been tempted to try a transformation sideboard. This is what I was thinking.
Here is my deck list:
4x Narcomoeba
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Basalt Monolith
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Academy Rector
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Angel of Despair
3x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Brainstorm
4x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Force of Will
2x Swamp
2x Island
4x Underground Sea
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Verdant Catacombs
This is what I was thinking for the SB:
4x Hive Mind
4x Show and Tell
4x Pact of the Titan
This is what I would board out:
-1 Academy Rector
-1 Goblin Bombardment
-1 Angel of Despair
-3 Dread Return
-4 Narcomoeba
-4 Mesmeric Orb
-1 Basalt Monolith
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
OK. Hivemind is totally unplayable in Legacy. There is no way on this planet we are ever going to reliably get to 6 mana in this deck. And I will be dead before I use Academy Rector to get a card that does not insta-win (because I can do that and therefor should only do that). You would do well to write off that card immediately. pact of Negation is a possibility, but there are plenty of things to counter that do not happen on your final turn.
Me too. But I have not worked it out exactly. I think this deck is a good candidate for that sort of thing though.
I think your list looks like it was good at the time. Although I will tell you that the wincon I am using atm (Sharuum and Blasting Station) is much harder to hate than Sutured Ghoul. It makes a huge difference.
If you side in the extra eldrazi and the extra Dread Return and wait a turn to go off, Surgical Extraction (as well as pretty much every other form of graveyard hate except for Extirpate, Leyline of the Void, and Wheel of Sun and Moon) does exactly...nothing. You do not have to draw these sb cards (in fact you are better off if you don't), and they are only even necessary if the opponent actually knows how to hurt you. Atm, pretty much nobody does. I have seen some really foolish uses of otherwise pertinent hate cards.
I have Gitaxian Probe proxies in right now. I am kinda meh about them so far.
Has not happened yet. The opponent would need Sensei's Divining Top and STP on the top of their library to make this possible. I think that you would have to be playing against a master who has figured out how to do this and also happened to assemble this defensive situation for this to ever be an issue. I would prefer that dead card to be defense or a search card.
I like this idea, and I was playing with it briefly. If that card ever proves to be common enough to be a problem, I will return it to the sb. Thank you for the input.
They can never STP a Narcomoeba if you play smart. See the OP for the details. GY hateproofing is done with an extra eldrazi and an extra Dread Return from the sb. If the opponent has something like Krosan Grip, this works, but it only delays you a few turns. After hateproofing with those two cards from the sb, and if you waited a turn to go off (and therefor have 3 mana open) any artifact removal that does not have split second is useless in exactly the same way the graveyard hate is.
That is to say that if you play the deck right, only split second cards do anything at all once you are going off.
Also, Mental Misstep sucks in this deck.
Ok you start milling and you hit a Narc, you go to untap monolith and they swords it? How do you dodge that?
Can you can untap monolith in response to the narc trigger and keep milling until you have all three on the stack? They all come into play [Edit: Can't they swords the first one in response to the second one?] and you dread return?
Edit because I'm a tard:
Edit because I'm not a tard:
You have one narc on the stack and you are digging for therapy, you hit another narc. Now when the first one resolves, you can't therapy because his buddy is clogging the stack, you have to pass priority and they stp. What do?
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
I don't get it. I mean you have two narcs on the stack, you let the one resolve, you can't therapy yet so you have to pass priority and they STP it. I know the situation is one in a million, but I building the deck and kinda want to know how to play against that.
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
Thank you. for some reason I thought they floated in hyperspace when they were on the stack and emerakul wouldn't shuffle them in. I love how this deck abuses the crap out of the stack.
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!
It did happen to me to be able to hard cast a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on tourn 4 thanks to two Basalt Monolith and a Ancient Tomb. It's unlikely, but as we are there...I also like the Kozilek-Emrakul split between main deck and sideboard, as it helps in case of an extirpate on one of them.
Gitaxian Probe is good in this deck, as it has been suggested by Chapin in this article for the "classical" cephalid breakfast. Gitaxian Probe makes Cabal Therapy much better, it solves the problem of the Enlightened Tutor/Lim-Dul's Vault under Mesmeric Orb and it can be pitched to force of will (if you are using it).
We are still exposed (unless I'm missing something) to Tormod's Crypt if they crack it in response either to an untapping Basalt Monolith or to the trigger of Sharuum the Hegemon. In the first case we need 3 mana available to be able to restart (=comboing off a turn later), in the second case we need a cabal therapy and an extra dread return.
For reference, this is the deck list I'm currently testing.
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Narcomoeba
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
4 Basalt Monolith
1 Blasting Station
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 Duress
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Thoughtseize
4 City of Brass
2 City of Traitors
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crippling Fatigue
3 Defense Grid
1 Dread Return
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Perish
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
I have to admit that I'm not running dual lands due to budget resriction. I think that even with duals I would stick to the 4 Ancient Tomb, 2 City of Traitors and 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, it makes the deck much faster. Undiscovered Paradise is the worst card of the deck, but I fell unconfortable in decreasing the land's count.
The choice of not running fow is not due to budget restrictions, I simply don't like it in this deck, as it can't fight our two worst enemies, extirpate and krosan grip.
I'm thinking to join a tournament with this list next Saturday. Any suggestion?
You would be foolish to not use FoW simply because it does not stop the split second cards. A combination of lesser measures taken as a whole are going to be much more common and just as effective as those.
For example: Qasali Pridemage will not end you by any stretch. But that plus a counterspell, a Wasteland, and a fast click probably will. Use the best cards you can even if it leaves you soft to the occasional specialized hate. Really.
Long story short, I found Finn's combo with Orb and Basalt to be incredibly awesome so I adopted that combo and went on my merry way working on my deck. Well, I came back to the Four Horsemen a week or so ago and have read through this entire thread. This is an absolutely awesome deck and I'm looking to build one for competitive Legacy play.
I have a question, however. My biggest concern with this deck is time. It's great that this deck can compete but are we going to get hit for slow play if we have to keep milling and shuffling our deck away to get our combo out? At the very least, it seems like it might be very irritating for other players to have to sit and wait while we spend the next few minutes doing this. And what happens when we side in an extra Eldrazi for the second and third games? Then it becomes much more difficult to get our three Narcos out and then get a dread return, sharuum and blasting station into the grave before hitting one of those Eldrazi.
All I'm saying is I fear that this deck is theoretically competitive (in that it can compete with other strong tournament decks) but not realistically competitive because of time constraints. Can anyone say more on this? Are my fears unfounded or are they legitimate?
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
I have been able to combo off immediately and I have had endless iterations without the proper sequence occurring.
Finn, thanks for your comment, I appreciate that.
Also yesterday I managed to had some match with a friend of mine running burn, and I lost almost always. The reason is that my ancient tomb, City of Brass, gitaxian probe, Lim-Dul's Vault, Thoughtseize and even Forbidden Orchard were making half of his job. On top of that he was siding in Smash to Smithereens and red elemental blast while my side was not offering anything useful.
I guess I'll have similar problems with any aggro. Therefore I'll put this deck on hold until I won't manage to have a decent manabase. I'm also considering to have a combination of duress/Inquisition of Kozilek rather than the 4 Thoughtseize. But I suppose you had already seen all that in your testing, lol!
2 more ideas:
1) The Necrotic Ooze - Triskelion - Phyrexian Devourer combo should work as well as win con. It has the advantage of being immune to stifle and of eliminating one trigger which could be used to crack a crypt. However it takes one slot more
2) I saw that some of you was trying to fit Shelldock Isle in the main deck. What do you guys think about having the doomsday combo in the side rather? I can see it being useful in certain match-up.
I really like this idea. While the deck might not be as theoretically efficient, from a practical/time standpoint it should be much more wieldy for an actual tournament. Assuming a scenario where Emrakul, Ooze, Trisk and Devourer are all in your library with 3 Narcos in play, you have a 1 in 4 chance of winning without having to reshuffle once (i.e., Emrakul is the last of the four cards to be flipped). With the Blasting Station combo, you might need a few reshuffles to set up your GY even before you start pinging.
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Magic player/collector since 1994
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