I did not see a Bomberman thread. I just made a version of Bomberman, and I plan on using it in some upcoming Tournanments. It has some go showings from my playtesting. I think it is a very interesting concept, and has many outs/answers MD. I made a small primer.
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UPDATED: 11/1/2010
Primer
I. Introduction
Bomberman is a :symr::symu::symw: deck primarily. There have been other splash builds, but this is probably the more common. Many people feel that is a better option than splash nowadays. It is a Toolbox deck that can answer most anything thrown at it. The Main Deck has things most others sideboard. If tweaked for your Meta, this could be a powerful challenger, and can beat anything. The Origin of Bomberman is using the potent Combination of Auriok Salvagers and Lion's Eye Diamond. This 2-card combination borrowed from the old Salvagers Game deck is hard to stop once Salvagers resolves because it is an instant speed ability. Recent Builds Bring in Painter's Servant and Grindstone from the board for an alternate win condition, not involving the Graveyard.
IV. Card Choices
Here are the card Choices of the deck. I will also discuss some Card choices for that build, though my main focus will be :symw:, :symu:, and choices.
A. The Core of Bomberman
This is the core of Bomberman, containing the combo's namesake, as well as all known Winning Conditions for the deck.
1. Primary Winning Condition Auriok Salvagers: The main Combo piece, as well as providing recurring artifact answers to various things. Lion's Eye Diamond: This used with Salvagers creates Infinte Mana of every color. Pyrite Spellbomb: This is the deck's Main Kill condition. Once you have Infinite Mana, you can Draw until you need to stop getting an answer or go straight for the Infinte Damage Kill.
2. Secondary Winning Condition Painter's Servant: Turns everyones cards in almost every zone a color of your choice Grindstone: Mills out opponents deck, since all the cards share the said color.
3. Tertiary Winning Condition/Alternate Winning Conditions Tezzeret the Seeker: This is the mid to late game end all be all finisher. If combo approach is thwarted, he's a tutor, and he turns all of your Artifacts in to possible 5/5 creature threats!! if need be. Jace, The Mind Sculptor: A recent newcomer to the deck. A self contained emergency win con/disrutpor. This may be another viable win con for the deck.
B. Tutors/Cantrips
This is a very important part of the deck, probably 2nd in importance to the actual winning conditions. Allows you to search for answers/win consistently.
A. Tutors
Here are the main and best known/tested tutors for the deck Trinket Mage: Allows one to look for Combo pieces or toolbox answers as well as chump-blocks. Imperial Recruiter: Allows one to look for Painter/Salvagers, as well as chump blocks too. A bit on the expensive side. Tezzeret the Seekr: Also fits into the Tutor category. This 1-2 of in the deck will also fetch answers/win con pieces if the game drags on against Control decks. Intuition: A great pseudo tutor for anything. Opponent doesn't hurt you a bit if you choose the 3 cards wisely, instant-speed, excellent tutor. Very Solid. Tolaria West: Tutor for toolbox Lands, as well as LED/Moxen. Great addition to the deck.
C. Protection / Disruption
Here I discuss some protection and disruption options. Included Sideboard Options for disruption. Organizational Purposes.
A. Force of Will Best practically-free hard counter ever. Daze: Another Free Counter, very useful Early Game Spell Pierce: A recent newer counter that costs minimal but counters very powerful things in the format. Spell Snare: Along with Peirce, counters THE most powerful things in Legacy for Hydroblast / Blue Elemental Blast: Becomes Strong with Painter
B. :symw:: Swords to Plowshares: Staple Removal Path to Exile: Newer, swappable with StP, not as good in some instances. Silence: Protects your Combo for entire turn, Doesn't Target. Orim's Chant: Like silence, except better vs. Aggro, but Targets a player. Wrath of God: Staple kill everything board Reset.
D. :symb:: Thoughtseize: 1-drop can force discard a lot of things. Duress: Very Dependable, solid against most decks. Cabal Therapy: Less popular unless used with the Variant to be used with Gamekeeper.
E. Multi: Fire // Ice: A less popular option nowadays, but still may be useful. Vindicate: Useful to destroy pesky things, Bad thing is, it is Sorcery Speed.
C. ToolBox
Here are the Toolbox options in the deck. These cards allow you to adjust your game plan mid-game. Though some would fit into the disruption category, these are your tutorable answers as well as 1-ofs/or recursion abilities and disruption. By the nature of the deck and tutors these are mostly Enchantments, Artifacts, and Lands; with 1-of other card types meant to be used if drawn into by luck, Top decking as insurance, or drawing from the combo itself.
Æther Spellbomb: Near - Colorless way to bounce an Infinite amount of creatures from the combo as well as infinte draw. Used in tandem with the bomber as an enabler to win was well. Engineered Explosives: Tutorable with mage/Tolaria west to raze the board of anything pesky. In this deck, you can create a 0-5 powered EE. Pithing Needle MD answer to Pridemages, Survival, etc. Tormod's Crypt: useful against reanimator, dredge Mox Diamond: Mana fix, or generate an additional color for a 4 power Engineered explosives. Academy Ruins: More Recursion, Nice with SDTop in play as well as alternate to recur artifact answers Karakas: tutorable from Tolaria west as a colorless answer to Emrakul, or Iona Wasteland tutorable with Tolaria west to kill utility/man lands you wish were gone Ancient Den Can be used in conjunction with Tezz and a moxen to create extra mana when needed, useful against stax or other decks that Keeps things tapped. Goblin Welder: Direct recursion from the yard that requires no mana. Auriok Salvagers: Also can become a recovery artist. Recurring EEs several times to wipe the board clean. Chalice of the Void: Tutorable way to disrupt other combo decks, especially Storm Based. Reanimate: At minimal cost to your life total, can be used to bring back Trinket mage or Salvagers, can be useful in the deck.
D. Manabase
This is also a very important component of every deck.
19-24 Lands
Use of the proper Duals/fetches for the combination of colors be it 1 color or 4/5 color bomberman is reccomended to make full efficiency of the deck.
Note: If using Daze, Island Based Duals are strongly Encouraged or it will be a dead card in times of need.
Additional Mana Options
Other than the toolbox lands and duals/fetches, these can be used to Ramp out planewalkers/higher CMC permanents spells earlier as fillers. Since there is nothing that costs a double mana cost (except maybe a Chant with the kicker) Colorless lands that produce an abnormal amount can be run. Also, 1-ofs are possible cause of the toolbox nature of the deck.
City of Traitors: enable a turn 1-2 Intuition/Trinket mage, turn 3-4 Tezz, and tutorable Ancient Tomb alternate City of Traitors
E. Side Board Choices
Here are more Side Board choices to help shore up various matchups.
Note: This is highly dependent on the Tutors you use.
Enlightened Tutor: allows for enchantment package on SB and also fetches your Artifacts md
Side Board Relic of Progenitus: alternate crypt, still tutorable Bribery: Steal Progenitus/Emrakul straight from the deck Runed Halo: card protection (only if running enlightened MD)
V. Matchups
Coming Soon!!!
Let us discuss. If you have any Match results/Decklists/More Card Ideas that you would like me to put in the Primer please PM me. I will try to keep it Updated.
perhaps using counterbalance as an additional engine? the only cards that throw it off are the salvagers, tezz, and FOW (although salvagers can let you counter natural order, and being able to counter FoW more consistently is okay).
This is testing well. A lot of players will give you a funny look... up until you combo, then they see what you're getting at
Anyway, I like how this deck has a lot of toolboxes, and combos smoothly. I'm thinking Jace would be good for here. Nice control, and a decent draw engine. Probably over Accumulated Knowledge.
True, Although FoW is mainly for disruption to stop your opponent from other shenanigans before you fish up LED, or to protect an active salvagers. I find LED salvagers is hard to stop though, if you float enough Mana, cause all you have to do is keep putting salvagers ability on the stack to avoid GY removal effects. They would need to Stifle the first time ability use and then RFG your yard if you have no Mana open.
Well, Silence doesn't Target, therefore it has built in protection against like Leyline of Sanctity or Solitary Confinement, however you have to bounce/kill those to win anyways with salvagers/painter. Although it would still be good, cause you can Silence before you play Chain of Vapor/EE --> Leyline of Sanctity, whereas with Chant, you have to kill their enchant before even casting it. That's only difference.
Edit: additional thought, Storm count will be huge so 1 ofs of Burning Wish / Cunning wish MD so that you can infinately draw into them with one of the bombs then Grab Empty the Warrens or Brain Freeze from the board to win as well EtW is good if you can't target them... Though if they stop your infite LED recursion, you can't do it... also thinking about 1-of Goblin Welder and/or 2 LED to improve the odds if stopped once.
is tezzeret the only back up kill this deck packs? i only say this because you only have 9 artifacts in the deck especially ones that sacrifice just doesn't seem like enough.
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is tezzeret the only back up kill this deck packs? i only say this because you only have 9 artifacts in the deck especially ones that sacrifice just doesn't seem like enough.
Well, Main deck, Yes. You can get them back with Auriok Salvagers
You board into Painters Combo if they have lots of GY hate.
I am currently trying to put together a legacy version of an old vintage deck that was often Hybridized with Bomberman, Sensei-Sensei.
a U/W/g Variant hybrid packing some sideboard Goyf action would cover all your bases. I was thinking something like
3x Trinket mage
3x Auriok Salvagers
3x Future Sight/Magus of the Future or 2/1 split either way
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's top
3x Helm of Obedience/artifact guy that does something similar
3x Brainstorm
3x Enlightened Tutor
2x Engineered Explosives
1x LED
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x Lifespark Spellbomb (attack with a buncha lands)
1x Sunbeam Spellbomb (infinite life)
1x Brain Freeze
1x Cunning wish
4x Force of will
2x Misdirection
I built this deck and took it to a tournament yesterday and went 4-0 with it. But didn't follow the premiers build i dropped the red elements for black.
this was the list I took
3 trinket mage
3 auroik salvagers
1 shield sphere
4 force
4 daze
4 path to exile
2 enlightened tutor
4 brainstorm
1 tezzeret
1 jace the mind sculptor
land isn't too important cept for
Academy ruins
round 1 was against another Blue white control
we only went through 1 game 1. He swords two salvagers and it became a back and forth game of answering each others plays and wasting a lot of time till i got jace out. his first ability was strong enough to break the stale mate.
round 2 was monoblack control this is where enlightened tutor came in handy for getting story circle which was the real star. Game 1 he kept a bad hand an I beat him down with salvagers and tezz. while counterbalancing diabolics and chainer's.
Game 2 I keep recurring explosives to kill his creatures nantuko shade, dark confidant and the like. I reanimated an exploded shade but he wipes board killing it again. but not before hes been knocked down to 7 with it. I was definitely mana flooded this game and unable to keep salvagers on the field with counter support, so the game goes to time as I stall with story circle, then ties.
round 3 is white aggro, game 1 take a few hits but manage to combo out with in reasonable time, but not before he drops a MD leyline of sanctity. finally a place where vindicate can save the day.
game 2 he over runs me, my draws aren't giving me answers to pace with his creature drops.
game 3 time was short I side in painter/grindstone. opening hand is grindstone and cards suitable to keep. a couple brainstorms in after fetches a painter shows up alongside force and I've got it. I put painter down and wait a turn for my 4 mana to untap and he doesn't have an answer to painter so I grindstone for win.
round 4 not entirely sure what it was. land deck playing the worldwake lands lots of green land drop accelerate cards with red board sweepers. game 1 was wierd but I had salvagers and lion's eye from the opener I wait to draw into either bomb or trinket. I vindicate, waste and path his creature lands in the mean time. lure his attention with jace and then get bomb right after he kills jace. combo out for win.
game two I put in painter stone and brainstorm into the pieces quickly and a lions eye diamond turn 3 i recklessly pop the combo and win.
In hind sight the deck was stalling a lot when it shouldn't have. the lack of intuitions in my build I think is to blame. But when using black having reanimate is good for turning an intuition into a creature specific tutor as you can resurrect salvagers with it if they don't give it to you. plus you can put a bomb or a lion's eye in the GY as well. I think i'm gunna drop counter balance for intuition and an extra reanimate.
so this will be general idea of my build for next tournament i use it in.
4 trinket mages
3 salvagers
1 shield sphere
4 force
4 daze
4 sword (hate giving out lands with paths.)
3 intuition
4 brainstorm/ponder
4 vindicates
2 reanaimates
2 lion's eye diamonds
2 divining top
1 pyrite spell bomb
2 engineered explosives
1 mox diamond
1 tezzeret
1 jace mind sculptor
I didn't get to use shield sphere in that tournament But in other trinket decks he's been invaluable. I really think reanimate has a strong position here for backing up salvagers and just screwing with people.
Intuition packages should definitely keep this thing from stalling out.
Black also opens up good options in the sideboard with discard, anti creature and more.
I'm gunna for go story circle with the next build as well as counter balance. many times counter balance stopped stuff for me but it was often put into a situation where top 3 were only a 1cc and 2 lands. Intuitions packages should make such stalling/ protection cards unnecessary. Will keep two wraths in the sideboard though.
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Another thing to explore is an enlightened tutor focused build with orim's chant and Isocron scepter. this would work more in a stall method but would better blend the bomber man combo with the jace back up kill as you abuse orim's chant on the stick or hide behind solitary confinement or a moat.
Hope some of this was helpful for being written at 3 am.
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4 inquisition of kozilek
2 wrath of god
2 painter servants
1 grindstone
2 ravenous trap
4 spell pierce
i'm a big fan of inquisition cause in the current meta a lot of naya/zoo is running around. For goblins and merfolk alike it can take out many of there main creatures before they hit the field.
Inquisition keeps your life up unlike thoughtseize so that is another reason i prefer it.
it may only hits 3 costers or less but thats a huge chunk of the format and makes its disruption capacity worth running.
If discard isn't to your liking I'd say try innocent blood in that spot instead. It can up the available anti creature answers nicely, this deck doesn't run too many so it working against us too shouldn't be too much of a bother.
wrath just seems a necessity for fighting fast aggro.
painter stone combo you put in as you feel you need it.
ravenous just to fight vengevine, ichorid and others that might come along.
spell pierce for fighting combo, enchantress, and maybe give an edge against control.
Not gunna run the 1-0cc artifact utility in the sideboard as most of it should be a 1 of in the main.
But not a bad place to put extra's if needed.
Not sure If I like to use meddling mage in this deck but definitely a strong contender if you got the meta for it. (particularly against survival and loam.)
big creatures is on anyones mind, maybe mainboarding meek stone, executioner's capsule, or aether spellbomb are decent options.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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I was very surprised and impressed to see a variant of bomberman using painter grindstone take first at Starcitygames Minnesota last September.
Here was the decklist being used:
Although admittedly, I don't play Bomberman, I'm even more surprised this hasn't been mentioned nor that the use of painter's grindstone hasn't been further incorporated into the mainboard of these styles of decks. Are the imperial Recruiters simply too expensive? I'd love to hear some thoughts an opinions by those that do play variants of this deck.
recruiter would make this deck crazy fast, but at 200ish in cost its not seen very often in builds outside or painter moon. It would certainly speed this deck up as it throws us the odman out combo piece of salvagers.
the biggest thing about recruiter as a tutor is he does that plus chumps something while u wait for mana to untap and play what ever u tutored. which would be helpful when faced with green control going for tarmo beats.
but pretty much have to fetch painter and salvagers through budget means.
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in aggro matches in day's past defense of the heart was really good for getting painter plus Llawan or trinket mage for comboing out. salvagers plus mage to get combo pieces would be just as good.
But that involves splashing green. doubt anyone wants to do that.
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recruiter would make this deck crazy fast, but at 200ish in cost its not seen very often in builds outside or painter moon. It would certainly speed this deck up as it throws us the odman out combo piece of salvagers.
the biggest thing about recruiter as a tutor is he does that plus chumps something while u wait for mana to untap and play what ever u tutored. which would be helpful when faced with green control going for tarmo beats.
but pretty much have to fetch painter and salvagers through budget means.
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in aggro matches in day's past defense of the heart was really good for getting painter plus Llawan or trinket mage for comboing out. salvagers plus mage to get combo pieces would be just as good.
But that involves splashing green. doubt anyone wants to do that.
and now I'm off to make a defense of the heart build, i hate you >.<
I was very surprised and impressed to see a variant of bomberman using painter grindstone take first at Starcitygames Minnesota last September.
Here was the decklist being used:
Although admittedly, I don't play Bomberman, I'm even more surprised this hasn't been mentioned nor that the use of painter's grindstone hasn't been further incorporated into the mainboard of these styles of decks. Are the imperial Recruiters simply too expensive? I'd love to hear some thoughts an opinions by those that do play variants of this deck.
I don't know if this would be considered to be Imperial Painter or Bomberman. This is probably more of a history question, but in which case Bomberman has been around since Fifth Dawn, much older deck stemming from a near-dead deck Golden Grahams.
Yes, Imperial Recruiter goes for $250+ each. I usually only see them in Painter Grindstone and he doesn't seem to fit in many decks atm, it is hard to justify dropping 1k on a playset that doesn't see too much play, when you can get a whole bunch of Duals for that amount of money, that can and is used in many, many Legacy decks. I haven't got my playset yet, and I am not on a budget at the moment. He's just really expensive for your average MTG player to use.
With that being said, Painter/Grindstone is a viable MD-able Strategy for Bomberman. I aslo believe that a splash, is stronger at the present Meta of Legacy, than splash.
in aggro matches in day's past defense of the heart was really good for getting painter plus Llawan or trinket mage for comboing out. salvagers plus mage to get combo pieces would be just as good.
But that involves splashing green. doubt anyone wants to do that.
salvagers game was always a fun deck, is there any major benefit to running this build compared to it?
It is funny you Mention this, cause the parent deck of Bomberman as i just mentioned above: Golden Grahams or Salvagers Gamewas :symb::symw::symg:
from the top of my head this is what the deck was all about. It abused Auriok Salvagers and Gamekeeper. I don't know how well this would perform without the Blue disruption needed to protect your combo in todays meta.
I'm not 100% accurate on this build, but this is kind of how it was:
There were probably better builds than this, but the key was casting a Gamekeeper and Flashbacking a Cabal therapy to dump everything in the yard until running across Salvagers. Once it hit play you win. Most of the time... I don't think it was very consistent. Actually once you sacced keeper you would win. The problems were: running across another keeper off of the keepers sac ability,meant you needed to draw into a secondary sac outlet. This was and still is a huge problem, and running only 1 Keeer, meant you would seldom "go off" cause you needed LED in the yard or in hand.
@Sanitysgrace
I believe a build with tutors abandoning Gamekeeper is less explosive, but more consistant, and splashing Blue greatly improves your chances in todays state of Legacy.
@TheRogue
I like your idea, I really want to drop red (mostly cause i dont have recruiters, and fire/ice doesn't seem strong enough nowadays) and add black. opening up to hand disruption.
I forgot about goblin welder being usable in a deck like this.
@aaronc123
Don't have to completely drop red, you can mana fix with mox opal or volcanic.
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One advantage of :symr:that I can't quite find a replacement for in white blue or black is firespout. If your running red main decking firespout is one of its strongest advantages, as I see zoo and merfolk being huge problems well onto the meta's horizon.
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Survival I wanna take a crack at as were packing crypt and pithing needle in the main that are often sideboarded in as answers. Its also another meta dominate deck I think bomber man might have a good match up with.
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I constructed and played golden grahams at one point. its a strong deck i'm not sure why people stopped playing it. but its dependent on not missing your marks with your discard spells and decisions.
I like the blue bomberman better because of blue disruption and draw support where Golden Grahams was just strait pro-active black disruption.
I still wanna see a better tutor idea for salvagers as there still the odd man out in this whole thing driven by trinket mage at its core.
Intuition packages are confusing as I'm just using both my reanimates from my build just to ensure salvagers goes to my hand. some how i think theres a better option than intuition. least this is the feeling i'm getting after some testing.
I'm not sure if this is helpful but I noticed that with Riddlesmith on the field we can essentially mill ourselves into spellbomb if its not present. other than salvagers and repeated casting of LED i'm not sure how else we can out him to work for us. Another thought on him might be to Doomsday then use his draw to get into the combo pieces? would require dark rituals added to the deck but just an idea. Also intuition packages with necrotic ooze wouldn't be a bad idea either as it essentially becomes a auriok salvagers once in play.
this is another variation I'm taken a stab at. I have no testing for it as of yet, but it stems from unlisted frustrations. such as what to intuition for during certain circumstances.
3 auriok salvagers
4 trinket mage
4 force of will
4 daze
2 orim's chant
4 ponder
4 infernal tutor
2 wrath of god
4 innocent blood
2 reanimate
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 underground sea
1 seat of the synod
1 ancient den
1 plains
1 swamp
2 island
3 tundra
essentially though i've removed intuition and swords and vindicate from my original monstrosity.
I'm trying to take more advantage of reanimate in the deck by accepting the possible loss of a trinket mage to innocent blood. thus i can net gain more artifacts.
Lion's eye diamond just seemed to be going to waste as a mana source so I thought I might be able to take advantage of it if i brought in the infernal tutor. As long as you orim's chant before hand it seems to work out just fine. plus it doesn't entirely matter if diamond is in the graveyard, the boost of 3 mana can get you either reanimate for bringing in a discarded salvagers (from the LED.) or help cast a fetched salvagers. the whole situation is ideal circumstances but it can work very effectively.
I opted for ponder over brainstorm.
I'm not sure if there is enough blue in here for force of will. it seems a bit low.
I moved wrath to the MD for the sole reason that I believe it makes tezzeret's final ability as a back up plan more practical. while a bunch of 5/5 artifact creatures is nice, they're vanilla and can't do much if they run into opposition. If anything wraths good for giving us a edge to swarm decks game 1.
In a build like this I'm not sure if Daze is the best option. Possibly spell pierce in the MD over daze?
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I forgot about goblin welder being usable in a deck like this.
@aaronc123
Don't have to completely drop red, you can mana fix with mox opal or volcanic.
Oh with the diamond? Yeah you can go 4 colors with this deck probably.
One advantage of :symr:that I can't quite find a replacement for in white blue or black is firespout. If your running red main decking firespout is one of its strongest advantages, as I see zoo and merfolk being huge problems well onto the meta's horizon.
Well, if you were to use Enlightened Tutor... 1-of Moat or Ghostly Prison could be viable. Another though: That is what Æther Spellbomb is for. If you have the combo, but the wrong spellbomb just bounce all their creatures and then draw until, or you can set up SDT, Academy Ruins to Bounce a creature every turn... This is also handy against Iona/emerakul, colorless bounce. Actually the Aggro Matchup should be easy, stall with your disruption and protect salvagers.
Survival I wanna take a crack at as were packing crypt and pithing needle in the main that are often sideboarded in as answers. Its also another meta dominate deck I think bomber man might have a good match up with.
Yes, you just have to "go off" before they do.
I constructed and played golden grahams at one point. its a strong deck i'm not sure why people stopped playing it. but its dependent on not missing your marks with your discard spells and decisions.
I like the blue bomberman better because of blue disruption and draw support where Golden Grahams was just strait pro-active black disruption.
My friend uses the classic build and it works, because no one except I knows how to stop it lol.
I still wanna see a better tutor idea for salvagers as there still the odd man out in this whole thing driven by trinket mage at its core.
Intuition packages are confusing as I'm just using both my reanimates from my build just to ensure salvagers goes to my hand. some how i think theres a better option than intuition. least this is the feeling i'm getting after some testing.
Intuition is incredible in this deck lol... just practice with it. Here are a few things off the Top of my Head Intuition enables you to do.
TIP: Play it at the end of you're opponents turn most of the time. It is a very responsive card.
TIP 2: You can sacrifice LED in response to casting Intuition. If you have enough mana, cast intuition, sac LED in response for whatever color you want.
Grab 3 Auriok Salvagers, cast it next turn, win.
If salvagers in hand or field get Æther spellbomb, Pyrite spellbomb, LED, win; it doesn't matter what is in the yard if you have an active salvagers
Grab Trinket Mage and Tolaria West and Academy Ruins
Grab 3 FoW in repsonse to them casting something you don't want them to cast, then counter it.
Grab LED, EE, Pithing Needle
Grab 2 Firespout and 1 LED
The whole point is giving your opponent an impossible decision. like 2 firespout and 1 LED... Like wth do you do if someone gave you that choice but you're using like Goblins??
I'm not sure if this is helpful but I noticed that with Riddlesmith on the field we can essentially mill ourselves into spellbomb if its not present. other than salvagers and repeated casting of LED i'm not sure how else we can out him to work for us. Another thought on him might be to Doomsday then use his draw to get into the combo pieces? would require dark rituals added to the deck but just an idea. Also intuition packages with necrotic ooze wouldn't be a bad idea either as it essentially becomes a auriok salvagers once in play.
Yes, i thought of Necro Ooze too
this is another variation I'm taken a stab at. I have no testing for it as of yet, but it stems from unlisted frustrations. such as what to intuition for during certain circumstances.
3 auriok salvagers
4 trinket mage
4 force of will
4 daze
2 orim's chant
4 ponder
4 infernal tutor
2 wrath of god
4 innocent blood
2 reanimate
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 underground sea
1 seat of the synod
1 ancient den
1 plains
1 swamp
2 island
3 tundra
essentially though i've removed intuition and swords and vindicate from my original monstrosity.
I'm trying to take more advantage of reanimate in the deck by accepting the possible loss of a trinket mage to innocent blood. thus i can net gain more artifacts.
Lion's eye diamond just seemed to be going to waste as a mana source so I thought I might be able to take advantage of it if i brought in the infernal tutor. As long as you orim's chant before hand it seems to work out just fine. plus it doesn't entirely matter if diamond is in the graveyard, the boost of 3 mana can get you either reanimate for bringing in a discarded salvagers (from the LED.) or help cast a fetched salvagers. the whole situation is ideal circumstances but it can work very effectively.
I opted for ponder over brainstorm.
I'm not sure if there is enough blue in here for force of will. it seems a bit low.
I moved wrath to the MD for the sole reason that I believe it makes tezzeret's final ability as a back up plan more practical. while a bunch of 5/5 artifact creatures is nice, they're vanilla and can't do much if they run into opposition. If anything wraths good for giving us a edge to swarm decks game 1.
In a build like this I'm not sure if Daze is the best option. Possibly spell pierce in the MD over daze?
Spell Snare is wicked vs Survival, Goyfs etc, but Daze allows you to tap out Early... I don't know about Infernal Tutor, the same thing can be accomplished with Intuition. And yeah i thinked you dropped lots of U support for FoW use.
Brainstorm is always superior to Ponder. Again, Brainstorm, like Intuition can be casted anytime, abuse this, your opponent won't know what you are doing. Only being able to play creatures and artifacts on your turn is the only thing stopping this deck from totally coming out of nowhere and winning on your opponents turn. Even though it techically can.
Strategy: Never let your opponent know what is going on and do your tutoring in the second main phase of your opponenet, or in response to something they are trying to do.
I hastily built and tested out a UWB a few weeks ago to some success. I didn't get to test it out much (had to dismantle it shortly after, so don't have a list on me) but I found it to work decently well. Didn't have enough blue in the deck to justify forces, so I went with proactive disruption in the form of cabal therapy. I found myself usually having a trinket mage on hand to flash it back before comboing out. I was running.. 3 LDVs, I think, to tutor for the salvagers. I also ran 3 reanimates in the list to recur salvagers in case it was countered, which proved to be effective.
I know I didn't have near an optimized build, but the few peculiar card choices in it did help give it some speed and resiliency, if at the cost of the better control of other builds.
I was running.. 3 LDVs, I think, to tutor for the salvagers. I also ran 3 reanimates in the list to recur salvagers in case it was countered, which proved to be effective.
I like the tips on intuition. its got me going back to the drawing board.
@Ubernoob
i've thought of lim duls as well.
If utilized in the right fashions it can function like old lim dul bazaar of baghdad combinations for dragon in type 1. But this is legacy so the role of bazaar will be played by lion's eye diamond.
------------------
tolaria west is an interesting choice. Its ability cannot be countered unlike trinket mage. Less they waste a stifle.
In faerie stompy we use to use it to get sigil of distinction plus lands of strategic value. If anything sigil was good for turning trinket mage into a tarmogoyf road block. However that is why i opt for shield sphere and it blocks just as much.
with aether spell bomb I didn't consider comboing out with it as to be able to both draw into pyrite and removal all creature threats. but it is a good answer for buying time as you slow your opponents creature advances.
being an intuition based deck we can run necrotic ooze combos easily enough, but the only issue I have with that is its graveyard based just as bomber man combo is already. Party of me just wants to stray from graveyard combo all together when making back up kills for this deck.
Hence why big jace is appealing. but stuff like helm of awakening or etherium sculptor to make two divining tops cost 0 for storm count ramp is also appealing. Just have to some how bring in a brain freeze or tendrils. On side note both helm and sculptor are fetchable with tezzeret late game. Riddlesmith makes two tops net gain cards when there storm count ramping. Also something like rain of filth was another storm combo card in days past to make two tops storm ramp. not sure if it has a place here.
Also Embersmith is a lethal killer just as much as pyrite spell bomb. that in mind maybe a two creature fetch construction of the deck might be more feasible. haven't done card research for that idea yet though.
I am elaborating heavily on back up kills but that is just my preference in combo decks. It is not an essential for this deck.
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I like the tips on intuition. its got me going back to the drawing board.
tolaria west is an interesting choice. Its ability cannot be countered unlike trinket mage. Less they waste a stifle.
In faerie stompy we use to use it to get sigil of distinction plus lands of strategic value. If anything sigil was good for turning trinket mage into a tarmogoyf road block. However that is why i opt for shield sphere and it blocks just as much.
with aether spell bomb I didn't consider comboing out with it as to be able to both draw into pyrite and removal all creature threats. but it is a good answer for buying time as you slow your opponents creature advances.
being an intuition based deck we can run necrotic ooze combos easily enough, but the only issue I have with that is its graveyard based just as bomber man combo is already. Party of me just wants to stray from graveyard combo all together when making back up kills for this deck.
Hence why big jace is appealing. but stuff like helm of awakening or etherium sculptor to make two divining tops cost 0 for storm count ramp is also appealing. Just have to some how bring in a brain freeze or tendrils. On side note both helm and sculptor are fetchable with tezzeret late game. Riddlesmith makes two tops net gain cards when there storm count ramping. Also something like rain of filth was another storm combo card in days past to make two tops storm ramp. not sure if it has a place here.
Also Embersmith is a lethal killer just as much as pyrite spell bomb. that in mind maybe a two creature fetch construction of the deck might be more feasible. haven't done card research for that idea yet though.
I am elaborating heavily on back up kills but that is just my preference in combo decks. It is not an essential for this deck.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor is a good Staller, cantripping, disrupting permanent, however I don't see him as a reliable winning condition from Main deck.
Bomberman, successful builds, doesn't have any "game lock" conditions. The very core of the deck is Combo and in Legacy using jace's ultimate is very hard unless you have a control deck, such as MUC or CounterTop.
Jace is not fetchable, so for it to work as a win con you have to draw into him early, you would almost need 3 Main deck.
Too many answers Can stop him, even if you get him into play on turn 3, you need 4 turns doing his +2 ability, then an entire other turn so 5 turns total to get to win with him. And all that assuming he doesn't get Bolted, Needled, Vindicated, what have you. Your opponent has essentially 5 Turns to answer Jace. Being that Bomberman does not have a locking condition (such as Isochron Scepter + Orim's Chant), this would be difficult to use.
Tezzeret the seeker takes a turn longer to play, but if you have salvagers in play, you pretty much win if he resolves; His ultimate only takes 1 more additional turn.
Painter's Servant + Grindstone + City of Traitors + Mox Diamond (and a land) + Lion's Eye Diamond = Turn 1 WIN. I know that would require God Hand, But boarding into 3 Painters and 1 Grindstone, or running them Main is a great secondary win con. Plus Grindstone fits seamlessly into the deck; and painter gan be reanimated.
Yeah, you want to avoid using the Yard at all for a secondary win con, cause they will try to get rid of your combo pieces from Bomber.
Here is the list i have been thinking about the last couple of days:
perhaps using counterbalance as an additional engine? the only cards that throw it off are the salvagers, tezz, and FOW (although salvagers can let you counter natural order, and being able to counter FoW more consistently is okay).
Actually, this deck I will try tonight, Haven't decided on the Side Board yet. I decided that CounterBalance > Daze in this deck.
i was doing some testing the other day and the conversation turned up momentary blink. my first thoughts is this can stretch the use of both trinket mage or imperial recruiter tutoring.
But if it were to be included It seems like the deck would need something else to go along with its capability to justify its addition. Unfortunately I'm drawing blanks on legacy effective ideas to add in.
second while tezzeret is great I've had the thought of adding vensur sojourner for some time. the idea of recasting zero cost artifacts and exile the opponents board was looking very tempting. coupled with tezz suddenly we can make our 5/5 artifacts unblockable.
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***********UNDER CONSTRUCTION********* Have updated a lot recently CHECK IT OUT!!!
UPDATED: 11/1/2010
Primer
I. Introduction
Bomberman is a :symr::symu::symw: deck primarily. There have been other splash builds, but this is probably the more common. Many people feel that is a better option than splash nowadays. It is a Toolbox deck that can answer most anything thrown at it. The Main Deck has things most others sideboard. If tweaked for your Meta, this could be a powerful challenger, and can beat anything. The Origin of Bomberman is using the potent Combination of Auriok Salvagers and Lion's Eye Diamond. This 2-card combination borrowed from the old Salvagers Game deck is hard to stop once Salvagers resolves because it is an instant speed ability. Recent Builds Bring in Painter's Servant and Grindstone from the board for an alternate win condition, not involving the Graveyard.
It can win by:
A. Infinite Damage: (First make Infinite Mana Auriok Salvagers , Lion's Eye Diamond) Win with Pyrite Spellbomb casted off of the Infinite off of the LED Salvagers combo
It also Draws Infinite and Bounces Infinite Creatures via Æther Spellbomb and Pyrite Spellbomb.
B. Mill: Painter/Grindstone from the SB as alt. win con
C. Brute force: always fun using Tezzeret the Seeker to make your Pithing needle a 5/5 dude. (in Tezz Builds)
II. Sample Deck
Here is an example of a decklist off the old deckcheck a few months ago.
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
Instant
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path of Exile
3 Fire//Ice
Artifact
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tarmod's Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Æther Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Land
1 City of Traitors
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Ancient Den
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland
4 Tundra
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Painter's Servant
1 Grindstone
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Disenchant
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Zuran Orb
III. Playing the deck
Coming Soon!!!
Here are the card Choices of the deck. I will also discuss some Card choices for that build, though my main focus will be :symw:, :symu:, and choices.
A. The Core of Bomberman
This is the core of Bomberman, containing the combo's namesake, as well as all known Winning Conditions for the deck.
1. Primary Winning Condition
Auriok Salvagers: The main Combo piece, as well as providing recurring artifact answers to various things.
Lion's Eye Diamond: This used with Salvagers creates Infinte Mana of every color.
Pyrite Spellbomb: This is the deck's Main Kill condition. Once you have Infinite Mana, you can Draw until you need to stop getting an answer or go straight for the Infinte Damage Kill.
2. Secondary Winning Condition
Painter's Servant: Turns everyones cards in almost every zone a color of your choice
Grindstone: Mills out opponents deck, since all the cards share the said color.
3. Tertiary Winning Condition/Alternate Winning Conditions
Tezzeret the Seeker: This is the mid to late game end all be all finisher. If combo approach is thwarted, he's a tutor, and he turns all of your Artifacts in to possible 5/5 creature threats!! if need be.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor: A recent newcomer to the deck. A self contained emergency win con/disrutpor. This may be another viable win con for the deck.
B. Tutors/Cantrips
This is a very important part of the deck, probably 2nd in importance to the actual winning conditions. Allows you to search for answers/win consistently.
A. Tutors
Here are the main and best known/tested tutors for the deck
Trinket Mage: Allows one to look for Combo pieces or toolbox answers as well as chump-blocks.
Imperial Recruiter: Allows one to look for Painter/Salvagers, as well as chump blocks too. A bit on the expensive side.
Tezzeret the Seekr: Also fits into the Tutor category. This 1-2 of in the deck will also fetch answers/win con pieces if the game drags on against Control decks.
Intuition: A great pseudo tutor for anything. Opponent doesn't hurt you a bit if you choose the 3 cards wisely, instant-speed, excellent tutor. Very Solid.
Tolaria West: Tutor for toolbox Lands, as well as LED/Moxen. Great addition to the deck.
B. Cantrips
Brainstorm: Legacy Staple Cantrip.
Sensei's Divining Top: Colorless, permanent cantrip that dodges disruption.
C. Protection / Disruption
Here I discuss some protection and disruption options. Included Sideboard Options for disruption. Organizational Purposes.
A.
Force of Will Best practically-free hard counter ever.
Daze: Another Free Counter, very useful Early Game
Spell Pierce: A recent newer counter that costs minimal but counters very powerful things in the format.
Spell Snare: Along with Peirce, counters THE most powerful things in Legacy for
Hydroblast / Blue Elemental Blast: Becomes Strong with Painter
B. :symw::
Swords to Plowshares: Staple Removal
Path to Exile: Newer, swappable with StP, not as good in some instances.
Silence: Protects your Combo for entire turn, Doesn't Target.
Orim's Chant: Like silence, except better vs. Aggro, but Targets a player.
Wrath of God: Staple kill everything board Reset.
C. :symr::
Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast: Just like BeB/Hydro, can become powerful with painter.
D. :symb::
Thoughtseize: 1-drop can force discard a lot of things.
Duress: Very Dependable, solid against most decks.
Cabal Therapy: Less popular unless used with the Variant to be used with Gamekeeper.
E. Multi:
Fire // Ice: A less popular option nowadays, but still may be useful.
Vindicate: Useful to destroy pesky things, Bad thing is, it is Sorcery Speed.
C. ToolBox
Here are the Toolbox options in the deck. These cards allow you to adjust your game plan mid-game. Though some would fit into the disruption category, these are your tutorable answers as well as 1-ofs/or recursion abilities and disruption. By the nature of the deck and tutors these are mostly Enchantments, Artifacts, and Lands; with 1-of other card types meant to be used if drawn into by luck, Top decking as insurance, or drawing from the combo itself.
Æther Spellbomb: Near - Colorless way to bounce an Infinite amount of creatures from the combo as well as infinte draw. Used in tandem with the bomber as an enabler to win was well.
Engineered Explosives: Tutorable with mage/Tolaria west to raze the board of anything pesky. In this deck, you can create a 0-5 powered EE.
Pithing Needle MD answer to Pridemages, Survival, etc.
Tormod's Crypt: useful against reanimator, dredge
Mox Diamond: Mana fix, or generate an additional color for a 4 power Engineered explosives.
Academy Ruins: More Recursion, Nice with SDTop in play as well as alternate to recur artifact answers
Karakas: tutorable from Tolaria west as a colorless answer to Emrakul, or Iona
Wasteland tutorable with Tolaria west to kill utility/man lands you wish were gone
Ancient Den Can be used in conjunction with Tezz and a moxen to create extra mana when needed, useful against stax or other decks that Keeps things tapped.
Goblin Welder: Direct recursion from the yard that requires no mana.
Auriok Salvagers: Also can become a recovery artist. Recurring EEs several times to wipe the board clean.
Chalice of the Void: Tutorable way to disrupt other combo decks, especially Storm Based.
Reanimate: At minimal cost to your life total, can be used to bring back Trinket mage or Salvagers, can be useful in the deck.
D. Manabase
This is also a very important component of every deck.
19-24 Lands
Use of the proper Duals/fetches for the combination of colors be it 1 color or 4/5 color bomberman is reccomended to make full efficiency of the deck.
Note: If using Daze, Island Based Duals are strongly Encouraged or it will be a dead card in times of need.
Additional Mana Options
Other than the toolbox lands and duals/fetches, these can be used to Ramp out planewalkers/higher CMC permanents spells earlier as fillers. Since there is nothing that costs a double mana cost (except maybe a Chant with the kicker) Colorless lands that produce an abnormal amount can be run. Also, 1-ofs are possible cause of the toolbox nature of the deck.
City of Traitors: enable a turn 1-2 Intuition/Trinket mage, turn 3-4 Tezz, and tutorable
Ancient Tomb alternate City of Traitors
E. Side Board Choices
Here are more Side Board choices to help shore up various matchups.
Note: This is highly dependent on the Tutors you use.
Zuran Orb: help against burn
Ethersworn Canonist: good against burn and tutorable by tezz easily casted
F. OTHER CARDS CONSIDERED
Main Deck
Chrome Mox
Grim Monolith ~ with the recent unbanning
Crucible of Worlds ~ Nifty with the Tutoring and one-of Lands, recurring wastes/city of traitors
Enlightened Tutor: allows for enchantment package on SB and also fetches your Artifacts md
Side Board
Relic of Progenitus: alternate crypt, still tutorable
Bribery: Steal Progenitus/Emrakul straight from the deck
Runed Halo: card protection (only if running enlightened MD)
V. Matchups
Coming Soon!!!
Let us discuss. If you have any Match results/Decklists/More Card Ideas that you would like me to put in the Primer please PM me. I will try to keep it Updated.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland
1 Kor Haven
Creatures: 7
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fire/Ice
2 Intuition
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Artifacts: 9
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Painter's Servant
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Disenchant
2 Pyroblast
2 Wasteland
1 Grindstone
1 Rack and Ruin
This is testing well. A lot of players will give you a funny look... up until you combo, then they see what you're getting at
Anyway, I like how this deck has a lot of toolboxes, and combos smoothly. I'm thinking Jace would be good for here. Nice control, and a decent draw engine. Probably over Accumulated Knowledge.
At risk of sounding repetative, Ratchet Bomb would seem like it might fit in this deck from the board, even Though EE can be tutored by Mage.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
How about running Silence as protection?
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Edit: additional thought, Storm count will be huge so 1 ofs of Burning Wish / Cunning wish MD so that you can infinately draw into them with one of the bombs then Grab Empty the Warrens or Brain Freeze from the board to win as well EtW is good if you can't target them... Though if they stop your infite LED recursion, you can't do it... also thinking about 1-of Goblin Welder and/or 2 LED to improve the odds if stopped once.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Well, Main deck, Yes. You can get them back with Auriok Salvagers
You board into Painters Combo if they have lots of GY hate.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
a U/W/g Variant hybrid packing some sideboard Goyf action would cover all your bases. I was thinking something like
3x Trinket mage
3x Auriok Salvagers
3x Future Sight/Magus of the Future or 2/1 split either way
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's top
3x Helm of Obedience/artifact guy that does something similar
3x Brainstorm
3x Enlightened Tutor
2x Engineered Explosives
1x LED
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x Lifespark Spellbomb (attack with a buncha lands)
1x Sunbeam Spellbomb (infinite life)
1x Brain Freeze
1x Cunning wish
4x Force of will
2x Misdirection
22 mana sources
Sideboard
1x Chain of vapor
1x path
1x crop rotation
1x BEB
1x Brain freeze
1x Hunting Pack
4x Tarmogoyf
Current MTGO Player and paper reseller/speculator.
this was the list I took
3 trinket mage
3 auroik salvagers
1 shield sphere
4 force
4 daze
4 path to exile
2 enlightened tutor
4 brainstorm
3 vindicates (very useful)
1 reanimate (very useful )
1 story circle (very useful)
3 counter balance
2 engineered explosives
1 lion's eye diamond
1 pyrite spellbomb
2 divining top
1 tezzeret
1 jace the mind sculptor
land isn't too important cept for
Academy ruins
round 1 was against another Blue white control
we only went through 1 game 1. He swords two salvagers and it became a back and forth game of answering each others plays and wasting a lot of time till i got jace out. his first ability was strong enough to break the stale mate.
round 2 was monoblack control this is where enlightened tutor came in handy for getting story circle which was the real star. Game 1 he kept a bad hand an I beat him down with salvagers and tezz. while counterbalancing diabolics and chainer's.
Game 2 I keep recurring explosives to kill his creatures nantuko shade, dark confidant and the like. I reanimated an exploded shade but he wipes board killing it again. but not before hes been knocked down to 7 with it. I was definitely mana flooded this game and unable to keep salvagers on the field with counter support, so the game goes to time as I stall with story circle, then ties.
round 3 is white aggro, game 1 take a few hits but manage to combo out with in reasonable time, but not before he drops a MD leyline of sanctity. finally a place where vindicate can save the day.
game 2 he over runs me, my draws aren't giving me answers to pace with his creature drops.
game 3 time was short I side in painter/grindstone. opening hand is grindstone and cards suitable to keep. a couple brainstorms in after fetches a painter shows up alongside force and I've got it. I put painter down and wait a turn for my 4 mana to untap and he doesn't have an answer to painter so I grindstone for win.
round 4 not entirely sure what it was. land deck playing the worldwake lands lots of green land drop accelerate cards with red board sweepers. game 1 was wierd but I had salvagers and lion's eye from the opener I wait to draw into either bomb or trinket. I vindicate, waste and path his creature lands in the mean time. lure his attention with jace and then get bomb right after he kills jace. combo out for win.
game two I put in painter stone and brainstorm into the pieces quickly and a lions eye diamond turn 3 i recklessly pop the combo and win.
In hind sight the deck was stalling a lot when it shouldn't have. the lack of intuitions in my build I think is to blame. But when using black having reanimate is good for turning an intuition into a creature specific tutor as you can resurrect salvagers with it if they don't give it to you. plus you can put a bomb or a lion's eye in the GY as well. I think i'm gunna drop counter balance for intuition and an extra reanimate.
so this will be general idea of my build for next tournament i use it in.
4 trinket mages
3 salvagers
1 shield sphere
4 force
4 daze
4 sword (hate giving out lands with paths.)
3 intuition
4 brainstorm/ponder
4 vindicates
2 reanaimates
2 lion's eye diamonds
2 divining top
1 pyrite spell bomb
2 engineered explosives
1 mox diamond
1 tezzeret
1 jace mind sculptor
I didn't get to use shield sphere in that tournament But in other trinket decks he's been invaluable. I really think reanimate has a strong position here for backing up salvagers and just screwing with people.
Intuition packages should definitely keep this thing from stalling out.
Black also opens up good options in the sideboard with discard, anti creature and more.
I'm gunna for go story circle with the next build as well as counter balance. many times counter balance stopped stuff for me but it was often put into a situation where top 3 were only a 1cc and 2 lands. Intuitions packages should make such stalling/ protection cards unnecessary. Will keep two wraths in the sideboard though.
-----------------------
Another thing to explore is an enlightened tutor focused build with orim's chant and Isocron scepter. this would work more in a stall method but would better blend the bomber man combo with the jace back up kill as you abuse orim's chant on the stick or hide behind solitary confinement or a moat.
Hope some of this was helpful for being written at 3 am.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 wrath of god
2 painter servants
1 grindstone
2 ravenous trap
4 spell pierce
i'm a big fan of inquisition cause in the current meta a lot of naya/zoo is running around. For goblins and merfolk alike it can take out many of there main creatures before they hit the field.
Inquisition keeps your life up unlike thoughtseize so that is another reason i prefer it.
it may only hits 3 costers or less but thats a huge chunk of the format and makes its disruption capacity worth running.
If discard isn't to your liking I'd say try innocent blood in that spot instead. It can up the available anti creature answers nicely, this deck doesn't run too many so it working against us too shouldn't be too much of a bother.
wrath just seems a necessity for fighting fast aggro.
painter stone combo you put in as you feel you need it.
ravenous just to fight vengevine, ichorid and others that might come along.
spell pierce for fighting combo, enchantress, and maybe give an edge against control.
Not gunna run the 1-0cc artifact utility in the sideboard as most of it should be a 1 of in the main.
But not a bad place to put extra's if needed.
Not sure If I like to use meddling mage in this deck but definitely a strong contender if you got the meta for it. (particularly against survival and loam.)
big creatures is on anyones mind, maybe mainboarding meek stone, executioner's capsule, or aether spellbomb are decent options.
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Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Here was the decklist being used:
Although admittedly, I don't play Bomberman, I'm even more surprised this hasn't been mentioned nor that the use of painter's grindstone hasn't been further incorporated into the mainboard of these styles of decks. Are the imperial Recruiters simply too expensive? I'd love to hear some thoughts an opinions by those that do play variants of this deck.
the biggest thing about recruiter as a tutor is he does that plus chumps something while u wait for mana to untap and play what ever u tutored. which would be helpful when faced with green control going for tarmo beats.
but pretty much have to fetch painter and salvagers through budget means.
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in aggro matches in day's past defense of the heart was really good for getting painter plus Llawan or trinket mage for comboing out. salvagers plus mage to get combo pieces would be just as good.
But that involves splashing green. doubt anyone wants to do that.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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and now I'm off to make a defense of the heart build, i hate you >.<
I don't know if this would be considered to be Imperial Painter or Bomberman. This is probably more of a history question, but in which case Bomberman has been around since Fifth Dawn, much older deck stemming from a near-dead deck Golden Grahams.
Yes, Imperial Recruiter goes for $250+ each. I usually only see them in Painter Grindstone and he doesn't seem to fit in many decks atm, it is hard to justify dropping 1k on a playset that doesn't see too much play, when you can get a whole bunch of Duals for that amount of money, that can and is used in many, many Legacy decks. I haven't got my playset yet, and I am not on a budget at the moment. He's just really expensive for your average MTG player to use.
With that being said, Painter/Grindstone is a viable MD-able Strategy for Bomberman. I aslo believe that a splash, is stronger at the present Meta of Legacy, than splash.
It is funny you Mention this, cause the parent deck of Bomberman as i just mentioned above: Golden Grahams or Salvagers Gamewas :symb::symw::symg:
from the top of my head this is what the deck was all about. It abused Auriok Salvagers and Gamekeeper. I don't know how well this would perform without the Blue disruption needed to protect your combo in todays meta.
I'm not 100% accurate on this build, but this is kind of how it was:
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Gamekeeper
Instant
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Culling the Weak
Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
3 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Æther Spellbomb
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Diamond
Land
4 Bayou
4 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
There were probably better builds than this, but the key was casting a Gamekeeper and Flashbacking a Cabal therapy to dump everything in the yard until running across Salvagers. Once it hit play you win. Most of the time... I don't think it was very consistent. Actually once you sacced keeper you would win. The problems were: running across another keeper off of the keepers sac ability,meant you needed to draw into a secondary sac outlet. This was and still is a huge problem, and running only 1 Keeer, meant you would seldom "go off" cause you needed LED in the yard or in hand.
@Sanitysgrace
I believe a build with tutors abandoning Gamekeeper is less explosive, but more consistant, and splashing Blue greatly improves your chances in todays state of Legacy.
@TheRogue
I like your idea, I really want to drop red (mostly cause i dont have recruiters, and fire/ice doesn't seem strong enough nowadays) and add black. opening up to hand disruption.
Only thing valuable I would lose is Goblin Welder and Pyroblast
I'll add my list later. I updated the Primer, check it out!!
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
@aaronc123
Don't have to completely drop red, you can mana fix with mox opal or volcanic.
-------------
One advantage of :symr:that I can't quite find a replacement for in white blue or black is firespout. If your running red main decking firespout is one of its strongest advantages, as I see zoo and merfolk being huge problems well onto the meta's horizon.
-------------
Survival I wanna take a crack at as were packing crypt and pithing needle in the main that are often sideboarded in as answers. Its also another meta dominate deck I think bomber man might have a good match up with.
-----------------------
I constructed and played golden grahams at one point. its a strong deck i'm not sure why people stopped playing it. but its dependent on not missing your marks with your discard spells and decisions.
I like the blue bomberman better because of blue disruption and draw support where Golden Grahams was just strait pro-active black disruption.
I still wanna see a better tutor idea for salvagers as there still the odd man out in this whole thing driven by trinket mage at its core.
Intuition packages are confusing as I'm just using both my reanimates from my build just to ensure salvagers goes to my hand. some how i think theres a better option than intuition. least this is the feeling i'm getting after some testing.
I'm not sure if this is helpful but I noticed that with Riddlesmith on the field we can essentially mill ourselves into spellbomb if its not present. other than salvagers and repeated casting of LED i'm not sure how else we can out him to work for us.
Another thought on him might be to Doomsday then use his draw to get into the combo pieces? would require dark rituals added to the deck but just an idea.
Also intuition packages with necrotic ooze wouldn't be a bad idea either as it essentially becomes a auriok salvagers once in play.
this is another variation I'm taken a stab at. I have no testing for it as of yet, but it stems from unlisted frustrations. such as what to intuition for during certain circumstances.
3 auriok salvagers
4 trinket mage
4 force of will
4 daze
2 orim's chant
4 ponder
4 infernal tutor
2 wrath of god
4 innocent blood
2 reanimate
2 lion's eye diamond
1 pithing needle
2 divining top
1 pyrite spell bomb
2 engineered explosives
1 tezzeret
1 academy ruins
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 underground sea
1 seat of the synod
1 ancient den
1 plains
1 swamp
2 island
3 tundra
essentially though i've removed intuition and swords and vindicate from my original monstrosity.
I'm trying to take more advantage of reanimate in the deck by accepting the possible loss of a trinket mage to innocent blood. thus i can net gain more artifacts.
Lion's eye diamond just seemed to be going to waste as a mana source so I thought I might be able to take advantage of it if i brought in the infernal tutor. As long as you orim's chant before hand it seems to work out just fine. plus it doesn't entirely matter if diamond is in the graveyard, the boost of 3 mana can get you either reanimate for bringing in a discarded salvagers (from the LED.) or help cast a fetched salvagers. the whole situation is ideal circumstances but it can work very effectively.
I opted for ponder over brainstorm.
I'm not sure if there is enough blue in here for force of will. it seems a bit low.
I moved wrath to the MD for the sole reason that I believe it makes tezzeret's final ability as a back up plan more practical. while a bunch of 5/5 artifact creatures is nice, they're vanilla and can't do much if they run into opposition. If anything wraths good for giving us a edge to swarm decks game 1.
In a build like this I'm not sure if Daze is the best option. Possibly spell pierce in the MD over daze?
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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Oh with the diamond? Yeah you can go 4 colors with this deck probably.
Well, if you were to use Enlightened Tutor... 1-of Moat or Ghostly Prison could be viable. Another though: That is what Æther Spellbomb is for. If you have the combo, but the wrong spellbomb just bounce all their creatures and then draw until, or you can set up SDT, Academy Ruins to Bounce a creature every turn... This is also handy against Iona/emerakul, colorless bounce. Actually the Aggro Matchup should be easy, stall with your disruption and protect salvagers.
Yes, you just have to "go off" before they do.
My friend uses the classic build and it works, because no one except I knows how to stop it lol.
Intuition is incredible in this deck lol... just practice with it. Here are a few things off the Top of my Head Intuition enables you to do.
TIP: Play it at the end of you're opponents turn most of the time. It is a very responsive card.
TIP 2: You can sacrifice LED in response to casting Intuition. If you have enough mana, cast intuition, sac LED in response for whatever color you want.
The whole point is giving your opponent an impossible decision. like 2 firespout and 1 LED... Like wth do you do if someone gave you that choice but you're using like Goblins??
Yes, i thought of Necro Ooze too
Spell Snare is wicked vs Survival, Goyfs etc, but Daze allows you to tap out Early... I don't know about Infernal Tutor, the same thing can be accomplished with Intuition. And yeah i thinked you dropped lots of U support for FoW use.
Brainstorm is always superior to Ponder. Again, Brainstorm, like Intuition can be casted anytime, abuse this, your opponent won't know what you are doing. Only being able to play creatures and artifacts on your turn is the only thing stopping this deck from totally coming out of nowhere and winning on your opponents turn. Even though it techically can.
Strategy: Never let your opponent know what is going on and do your tutoring in the second main phase of your opponenet, or in response to something they are trying to do.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I know I didn't have near an optimized build, but the few peculiar card choices in it did help give it some speed and resiliency, if at the cost of the better control of other builds.
LDV = Lim-Dûl's Vault?
I do see Reanimate as a good back up strategy... I was thinking about the Therapy too.
EDIT: Volrath's Stronghold can also be emergency Tolaria west target
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I like the tips on intuition. its got me going back to the drawing board.
@Ubernoob
i've thought of lim duls as well.
If utilized in the right fashions it can function like old lim dul bazaar of baghdad combinations for dragon in type 1. But this is legacy so the role of bazaar will be played by lion's eye diamond.
------------------
tolaria west is an interesting choice. Its ability cannot be countered unlike trinket mage. Less they waste a stifle.
In faerie stompy we use to use it to get sigil of distinction plus lands of strategic value. If anything sigil was good for turning trinket mage into a tarmogoyf road block. However that is why i opt for shield sphere and it blocks just as much.
with aether spell bomb I didn't consider comboing out with it as to be able to both draw into pyrite and removal all creature threats. but it is a good answer for buying time as you slow your opponents creature advances.
being an intuition based deck we can run necrotic ooze combos easily enough, but the only issue I have with that is its graveyard based just as bomber man combo is already. Party of me just wants to stray from graveyard combo all together when making back up kills for this deck.
Hence why big jace is appealing. but stuff like helm of awakening or etherium sculptor to make two divining tops cost 0 for storm count ramp is also appealing. Just have to some how bring in a brain freeze or tendrils.
On side note both helm and sculptor are fetchable with tezzeret late game. Riddlesmith makes two tops net gain cards when there storm count ramping. Also something like rain of filth was another storm combo card in days past to make two tops storm ramp. not sure if it has a place here.
Also Embersmith is a lethal killer just as much as pyrite spell bomb. that in mind maybe a two creature fetch construction of the deck might be more feasible. haven't done card research for that idea yet though.
I am elaborating heavily on back up kills but that is just my preference in combo decks. It is not an essential for this deck.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
sigil of distinction is interesting.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor is a good Staller, cantripping, disrupting permanent, however I don't see him as a reliable winning condition from Main deck.
Yeah, you want to avoid using the Yard at all for a secondary win con, cause they will try to get rid of your combo pieces from Bomber.
Here is the list i have been thinking about the last couple of days:
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
Instant
3 Intuition
2 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
3 Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery
2 Reanimate
Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret The Seeker
Artifacts
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mox Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Æther Spellbomb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 City Of Traitors
1 Wasteland
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Ancient Den
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Painter's Servant
1 Grindstone
1 Volcanic Island
3 Firespout
3 Silence
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Goblin Welder
EDIT:
Actually, this deck I will try tonight, Haven't decided on the Side Board yet. I decided that CounterBalance > Daze in this deck.
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
Instant
3 Intuition
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
Sorcery
2 Reanimate
Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret The Seeker
Artifacts
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mox Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Æther Spellbomb
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 City Of Traitors
1 Wasteland
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Ancient Den
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Painter's Servant
1 Grindstone
3 Firespout
3 Echoing Truth
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
Still not decided on board yet, actually. Depending on how this runs, Jace 2.0 might actually be viable in this version.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
But if it were to be included It seems like the deck would need something else to go along with its capability to justify its addition. Unfortunately I'm drawing blanks on legacy effective ideas to add in.
second while tezzeret is great I've had the thought of adding vensur sojourner for some time. the idea of recasting zero cost artifacts and exile the opponents board was looking very tempting. coupled with tezz suddenly we can make our 5/5 artifacts unblockable.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!