Quote from drmarkb »Forgive me but I can't see people knowing about helm rip as a huge issue. I mean knowing about it and stopping it are different things.
Decks with p needle effects game one where they preemptively name Helm are d n t and its Revokers and some Depths lists. Both are pretty easy matches regardless of wincon.
If they name them then your Scroll rack works as they are not naming it, and Cursed Scroll/ Humility/whatever eats through d n ts army.
Depths makes 20s that get removed via Karakas if you run it or plain old spot removal.
One hit forced through won't do it due to Zuran, and getting any hit in is hard with Chant about. Not to mention Blood Moon main. I can see you might want to surprise them with Belcher when they name Helm but you should win those games anyway as soon as the Land Tax engine is online there is inebitability.
For other decks, yes, sometimes they kill RIP in response to Helm, but generally good play beats that, e. g. having two RIPs down, or using Orim's to force them to use their removal midgame on the RIP if you have five mana up. To an extent if they hold a Decay spell you can tax their mana as they can't afford to tap out. Again once you are scrack/taxing you are good to go and if they are killing the combo bits they are not hurting the engine. We are a control deck after all.
The main point about helm/rip is that the cards have value by themselves. Helm by itself is just good against cheat a critter deck, but RIP otoh, is a very good card by itself vs Storm, Fins, all 3 reanimators, both Dredges, and many snapcaster/miracles decks, especially post accumulated knowledge tech, and grixis control with snappy and K command.
In the days of bug/jund tammy it did a job too on tammy and still does over KOTR beats.
I do get Charbelcher though. Good card, wins the game in one. I just want to stick up for RIP helm.
I run Nahiri side. It is pretty flexible and is good when the engine is inhibited.
If you run it main then maybe Emmrakul is worth it? I have never found room and it us not worth it for me.
I used to run unexpectedly absent, good with helm, can protect our stuff. It was good, but at that point I was getting it in by cutting Swords to Plow, which only worked when my meta was very low on dudes. A singleton copy is sometimes worth it.
CJ seems wrong, sure it hits TNN where O ring can't but you have Humility or Halo for that. O ring or Cast out being Tutorable is better, esp if someone Shows them in for you.
Quote from Rhystic
just tried out WeaponX (bdi parfait) decklist for an online tournament. went undefeated even though I never used it before. this deck is real. O.o
Quote from hurlman81 Thanks for all your help on this everyone, especially WeaponX. I think he may be one of the more under appreciated brewers in the community.
Quote from WeaponX »...Cataclysmic gearhulk also isn’t a terrible option.