See, I'm going to get flamed for this, but I think Vendilion Clique isn't very good. Yes, it's a 3/1 Flash Flier for 1UU, which is decent (No Flickerwisp but whatever). But the second ability never made sense. Sure, you take a potentially harmful card from their hand, but then they just draw into something potentially more harmful. Yes, you can target yourself. But it's also Legendary and still has a butt of 1.
But I'd just rather run Thoughtseize or Bitterblossom for disruption or a good attacker. Opening up to black gives us some awesome sideboard choices or more Ninjas to consider too.
Or run Higure and make your existing Ninjas scary as hell.
I was worried about the fetches too, but id rather run more than 4 lands that make black, because i need to be able to disrupt really quickly in the dredge matchup. I run the black ninja sb because as a dredge player myself, ive been surprised at how resiliant dredge can be to one-time hate, and he seems like a good answer. Do you think i should just run more ravenous traps?
As for the stifle vs mindbreak, i just switched mindbreak in for stifle because i hated always leaving mana open against storm combo instead of developing card advantage. I almost always have somthing to do with my mana, so i often end up just missing oppurtunities to stifle lands until it no longer matters, but mindbreak can sometimes randomly cost zero, and it makes a difference later in the game when i can hardcast it.
Edit: i now think id like to fit bitterblossom and another couple lands and the killer ninja in MD for aggro matchups, likely at the expense of zephyr sprites and/or mistblade shinobis and/or MD mindbreaks and definitely higure.
See, I'm going to get flamed for this, but I think Vendilion Clique isn't very good. Yes, it's a 3/1 Flash Flier for 1UU, which is decent (No Flickerwisp but whatever). But the second ability never made sense. Sure, you take a potentially harmful card from their hand, but then they just draw into something potentially more harmful. Yes, you can target yourself. But it's also Legendary and still has a butt of 1.
But I'd just rather run Thoughtseize or Bitterblossom for disruption or a good attacker. Opening up to black gives us some awesome sideboard choices or more Ninjas to consider too.
Or run Higure and make your existing Ninjas scary as hell.
-T
I've actually got to agree here. I've been playing tempo thresh for a bit, and I don't even run the clique there anymore (yes that is a bit of a meta call). It's strong if there's combo running about (where a well timed clique can nerf their hand), but there are better options. The problem that I always had was either seeing their hand and seeing nothing that i wanted to get rid of, or getting rid of something that was ok and having them draw something great. So... pretty much the scenario that T pointed out.
I'm a little confused as to how bitterblossom would make for disruption, but it is definitely a strong option for a black splash. Thoughtseize as hand disruption is much more solid if you're game for a splash, although the potential to be disrupted by wasteland (hitting underground sea) or stifle hitting a fetch always makes me wonder about the splash in the deck.
As for a decent way to deal with dredge... grave hate works, but as another (less narrow) option, try combining it with Echoing Truth. Right now, my meta is 20-25% dredge, and I'm running a 3-3 split of ETruth and Tormod's Crypt.
maybe ill cut the throat slitters and a jitte for stifles, cause bitterblossom should hold off aggro pretty well. I still feel like daze can be really helpful tho
Jitte is a house against aggro too though. I run 3 jittes with #4 in the sideboard (since people pull out krosan grips for them). I'm not sure what else you would cut. Maybe one island? taking out throat slitter kind of lowers your curve a bit, back down to like 2.
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a chumper every turn seems like it would get most of the job done against aggro tho. What about thoughtseize instead of stifle, just because it is always useful first turn, when I dont have much going on? I know stifle is more potent, especially against aggro, where a turn makes a difference because i can outrace them instead of relying on having answers to everything, but against a combo build (which needs a few different pieces which I can rob it of) or a disruption control build (which often relies on a single card in its hand shutting down my early game), which are what I expect at my upcoming tourney, i think id rather have thoughtseize. Even if is stifle a fetch against combo, they still will have the chance to win before I will, so slowing them down isnt nessecarily helpful. And disruption control is often mono-colored.
I do like the idea of cutting an island instead of Jitte, tho.
Edit: I take too much pain with this list, mebbe i should cut thoughtseize and try aether vials (i dont think it will work, but its worth a shot, and it gets around standstill).
I believe I may have mentioned this before but why not goyf? He seems to be worth splashing for. And he also seems to be a lot better than zephyr sprite at least to me. And watery grave is in your deck? Really? It seems better if that were a fetch instead. And if you do go the goyf route, obv. run misty rainforest and some tropical islands and cut the bitterblossoms for brainstorm. Aether vial should be in there probably in place of writ of passage and maybe 2 lands and maybe cut a single jitte. If you add goyf jitte isn't needed as much but is still valuable in some MUs..
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I still like the idea of a splash of green for goyf and of course the original colour pie breaking creature Scryb Sprites! It would also let you run trygon in your 'board. Having said all that, adding another colour will just leave you way more vulnerable to magus of the moon/back to basics strategies. I do think that you may have a problem with monored burn, but hardly anyone plays with that anyways.
You have a problem with most red decks. Pyroclasm and the like destroy every creature you run, Bolts can destroy your Ninja enablers before they become ninjas and shut down Jitte equips.
I have tested Goyf a little in the deck. He's awesome when you can get him out turn two and then drop a Standstill, but too often you want to return him to enable a ninja (bad choice, he does more damage and is a faster clock). While I would love to be able to fit Trygon in here, you start pushing the deck in a different direction as soon as you include non-evasion, non-ninja creatures.
You deal with as much as you deal with many problematic artifacts/enchantments. Either counter them before they hit play (sideboard Annuls help with this a lot) or try your best to play around them.
I've been working on an alternate version of the deck, using Stifles and Wastelands instead of Writ/Jitte and Mutavault. I'll let you all know what I find out.
-T
Odd, if you are running Stifle as a mana-denial counterpart, wouldn't you still want to keep Daze?
Also, I can see dropping the Writs for Threads, it seems pretty good to me and those slots are always fluid anyways.
After some testing on MWS, I noticed that FNS has a HUGE problem with resolved things that aren't creatures. I know you're not supposed to let that happen, but I don't often draw a whole lot of countermagic, and I draw Standstill far less than I need to. I'm going to test Chain of Vapor to see how it goes.
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"We have no need for military might. We wield two of the sharpest swords ever forged: Faith in our left hand, Wealth in our right." -Vuliev of the Ghost Council of Orzhova
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
Exactly that--Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, and things of that nature, since they obliterate the usefulness of Thopter and your countermagic. Also, Aether Vial was incredibly irritating, since it gets things in under Standstill. I countered stuff when I could, but I often found myself without a counter on hand when I really needed it.
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"We have no need for military might. We wield two of the sharpest swords ever forged: Faith in our left hand, Wealth in our right." -Vuliev of the Ghost Council of Orzhova
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
Another thing about Spell Pierce is that it is good in any combo matchups you might face.
A quick question about the deck, does anyone have a current list I could use a basis for finishing my real-life build of the deck. I haven't really been following the deck for a few months. How are the Zoo and other aggro matchups with the current list?
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I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Okay so the other day I had a crazy idea... adding Genesis Chamber. I was playing the other day and figured why not take advantage of the amount of creature movement in this deck...
Obv. I would reconsider them in Goblin/Merfolk/maybe Zoo matchups, but I think on average we'd have way more tokens than the enemy... I'm going to do some testing this weekend with it. It's probably just another crazy idea of mine which totally doesn't work... It does kind of have anti-synergy with the Mistblade.
A suggestion that I haven't seen mentioned in the last thirteen pages. ( Yes, I read through all the posts in the thread ): Inkfathom Witch.
I'm running v3 of Dissolution's deck right now, and I decided it would be a fun idea to try and make a nice UB version. Granted, it doesn't have the nigh-invulnerability to non-basic hate and Stifle as the mono-blue version does, but I think it's interesting.
My UB Fairyninjastill list is running the same shell: NotDH, Shinobi, Spellstutter, CoF, FoW, Daze, SS ( obviously ), Jitte. What I did take out was Ornithopters. ( I am seriously, seriously considering putting them back in, as I can already see it will impact the speed of my deck )
New additions to my UB variant: Vial, Witch, Bitterblossom and possibly the Seer mentioned from before. The reason for Vial is, although I love my mono-blue to death, I think that the addition of another colour lets me select from a very large range of two-drops. Witch has been a great finisher for playtesting so far. Attack with a few harmless evasive tokens and 1/1 Fae, and suddenly you're Vialing in your Witch and swinging for 12+. It's a little more mana intensive than I would like, but the surprise element with Vial is quite nice. Witch also has nice evasion on it's own, although not as good as flying.
What I am looking for is something to tempo my opponent to death with in the first few early rounds. This will allow me to build my mana base and get a few Fae down ( or Bitter tokens ) before dropping a lethal alpha strike with my Witch. Any suggestions? Considering: Stifle/Wasteland package, Spell Snare, Remand. I don't really know where to go. Counters or hand disruption are my two choices here.
EDIT
Blossom is too slow. So is Vial. Spellstutters are the most important to Vial in anyway, and they've got flash.
I tried out Genesis Chamber last weekend and it did help out during a couple matchups... Landstill took a lot of damage from those myr tokens, as did this blue control deck with Vedalken Shakles and a Red/Green splash... put some extra blockers on the field and did some crucial points of damage.
Try it out if you want to have some fun with the deck.
I know the decklist is tight but no one has tested Aven Mimeomancer as a 2/3 of somewhere?
All the 1/1 Dorks and Ninjas look like they could really do with the evasion and pump.
And yes, this is the second time I have mentioned it....
hmm i like what you thinking, but im not sure what to take out to put in the Aven Mimeomancers. maybe higure but thats about it.
EDIT: Yea i just realized you'd have to splash in white for Aven Mimeomancer so i really wouldnt mess up the entire mana base for one card. except tarmagoyf
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But I'd just rather run Thoughtseize or Bitterblossom for disruption or a good attacker. Opening up to black gives us some awesome sideboard choices or more Ninjas to consider too.
Or run Higure and make your existing Ninjas scary as hell.
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
As for the stifle vs mindbreak, i just switched mindbreak in for stifle because i hated always leaving mana open against storm combo instead of developing card advantage. I almost always have somthing to do with my mana, so i often end up just missing oppurtunities to stifle lands until it no longer matters, but mindbreak can sometimes randomly cost zero, and it makes a difference later in the game when i can hardcast it.
Edit: i now think id like to fit bitterblossom and another couple lands and the killer ninja in MD for aggro matchups, likely at the expense of zephyr sprites and/or mistblade shinobis and/or MD mindbreaks and definitely higure.
I've actually got to agree here. I've been playing tempo thresh for a bit, and I don't even run the clique there anymore (yes that is a bit of a meta call). It's strong if there's combo running about (where a well timed clique can nerf their hand), but there are better options. The problem that I always had was either seeing their hand and seeing nothing that i wanted to get rid of, or getting rid of something that was ok and having them draw something great. So... pretty much the scenario that T pointed out.
I'm a little confused as to how bitterblossom would make for disruption, but it is definitely a strong option for a black splash. Thoughtseize as hand disruption is much more solid if you're game for a splash, although the potential to be disrupted by wasteland (hitting underground sea) or stifle hitting a fetch always makes me wonder about the splash in the deck.
As for a decent way to deal with dredge... grave hate works, but as another (less narrow) option, try combining it with Echoing Truth. Right now, my meta is 20-25% dredge, and I'm running a 3-3 split of ETruth and Tormod's Crypt.
Incoherency is setting in... Jon out.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Nnja of the Deep Hours
4 Zephyr Sprite
2 Throat Slitter
4 Cloud of Faeries
Artifacts/Enchantments
4 Standstill
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Writ of Passage
4 Bitterblossom
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
Lands
4 Watery Grave
4 Underground Sea
4 Mutavault
9 Island
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Throat Slitter
2 Skunnsnatcher
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Annul
2 Arcane Laboratory
How about this?
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
I do like the idea of cutting an island instead of Jitte, tho.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Zephyr Sprite
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Ninja of the Deep Hour
Artifacts/Enchantments
4 Standstill
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Writ of Passage
4 Bitterblossom
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
Lands
4 Watery Grave
4 Underground Sea
4 Mutavault
8 Island
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Skullsnatcher
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Annul
2 Arcane Laboratory
Edit: I take too much pain with this list, mebbe i should cut thoughtseize and try aether vials (i dont think it will work, but its worth a shot, and it gets around standstill).
Currently Playing:
Retired
I have tested Goyf a little in the deck. He's awesome when you can get him out turn two and then drop a Standstill, but too often you want to return him to enable a ninja (bad choice, he does more damage and is a faster clock). While I would love to be able to fit Trygon in here, you start pushing the deck in a different direction as soon as you include non-evasion, non-ninja creatures.
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
I've been working on an alternate version of the deck, using Stifles and Wastelands instead of Writ/Jitte and Mutavault. I'll let you all know what I find out.
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
Also, I can see dropping the Writs for Threads, it seems pretty good to me and those slots are always fluid anyways.
Have you tried Wastelands instead of Mutavaults with Stifle?
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
A quick question about the deck, does anyone have a current list I could use a basis for finishing my real-life build of the deck. I haven't really been following the deck for a few months. How are the Zoo and other aggro matchups with the current list?
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Obv. I would reconsider them in Goblin/Merfolk/maybe Zoo matchups, but I think on average we'd have way more tokens than the enemy... I'm going to do some testing this weekend with it. It's probably just another crazy idea of mine which totally doesn't work... It does kind of have anti-synergy with the Mistblade.
I'll report back in a few days.
I'm running v3 of Dissolution's deck right now, and I decided it would be a fun idea to try and make a nice UB version. Granted, it doesn't have the nigh-invulnerability to non-basic hate and Stifle as the mono-blue version does, but I think it's interesting.
My UB Fairyninjastill list is running the same shell: NotDH, Shinobi, Spellstutter, CoF, FoW, Daze, SS ( obviously ), Jitte. What I did take out was Ornithopters. ( I am seriously, seriously considering putting them back in, as I can already see it will impact the speed of my deck )
New additions to my UB variant: Vial, Witch, Bitterblossom and possibly the Seer mentioned from before. The reason for Vial is, although I love my mono-blue to death, I think that the addition of another colour lets me select from a very large range of two-drops. Witch has been a great finisher for playtesting so far. Attack with a few harmless evasive tokens and 1/1 Fae, and suddenly you're Vialing in your Witch and swinging for 12+. It's a little more mana intensive than I would like, but the surprise element with Vial is quite nice. Witch also has nice evasion on it's own, although not as good as flying.
What I am looking for is something to tempo my opponent to death with in the first few early rounds. This will allow me to build my mana base and get a few Fae down ( or Bitter tokens ) before dropping a lethal alpha strike with my Witch. Any suggestions? Considering: Stifle/Wasteland package, Spell Snare, Remand. I don't really know where to go. Counters or hand disruption are my two choices here.
EDIT
Blossom is too slow. So is Vial. Spellstutters are the most important to Vial in anyway, and they've got flash.
Try it out if you want to have some fun with the deck.
http://mtgsalvation.com/1170-thoughtseizing-the-opportunity-ninja-faeries.html
The primary difference is that it runs Goyf, Vial, and Swords instead of Thopter and Sprite. It also runs less countermagic.
Thoughts?
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
i love the trickery in here. good job nice deck.
hmm i like what you thinking, but im not sure what to take out to put in the Aven Mimeomancers. maybe higure but thats about it.
EDIT: Yea i just realized you'd have to splash in white for Aven Mimeomancer so i really wouldnt mess up the entire mana base for one card. except tarmagoyf
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Vintage:
BBB Dark Depths featuring Bob and friends BBB
Elder Dragon Highlander:
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