A few tests told that Scion of Oona > Vendilion Clique. Shroud is amazing, though you would suspect that a 2/2 flying fae is not the best target for opponent's StoP - but, it usually is the only target for it and if my clock gets too fast (Scion + 3 other faes is already 7 per turn), opponent is forced to use it on my faes.
And shroud stops your Jittes from working. See below for why this is a bad thing.
Another amazing thing is unblockability given by Higure. I'd run two - you will like never draw them both anyway (MWS Probability Analyzis tells me it's 5% change on t7 without 'still, which means that you will probably face that once in a tournament, depending on of the number of rounds of swiss, of course) and it is worth it to take a risk becouse your opponent StoPs Higure over everything else, when it is in play unless situations are complicated and another one might be even a good thing.
Higure has been cut from my final version because 4 mana is just insane. With this deck's card draw, the only time you don't have better things to spend your mana on is when you're topdecking. I confess, he's best at this point, so you're right about only running 1-2. But consider Writ of Passage instead of him. Works through Standstill just the same, but it can be used a lot sooner, when it matters most.
Ornithopter sucks. It does not beat by itself, it is not a faerie, it is not a ninja (also, the M10 art does look like a flying bug more than an ornithopter). Everything it does is it is a Ninjutsu enabler for 0 = 1-drop. Zephyr Sprite is a better 1-drop. I realize that you can drop both Ornithopter and Sprite on turn 1 - but do you ('thopter players) realize that you cannot drop two clever ninjas on turn 2? I have chosen to play Spell Snare over Ornithopter.
I can't stress enough how amazing Ornithopter is. You drop it turn 1 to block Lackey, then you Ninja it turn 2/3 and just replay it right away. I've seen enough games of T1 Thopter, T2 Mistblade, T3 Deep Hours that couldn't be done unless you had a 0-drop working overtime.
...
Now I found some nice Latchkey Faeries that are going to fit in my build - Clique will disappear until I have tested it out. Also, I liked Jitte when I sided it in against some kind of an Elfball, I think that will be a maindeck slot, too, but as a 2-off or 1-off only.
Latchkey Faerie is terrible. What card in the deck is this better than?
Also, I'm going to say this again: Jitte is how this deck wins. I'm now Top 2 in the tournament with this, Jitte won me both of my games by itself. I board in the 4th Jitte often enough that I almost want to run 4 main. You run 12 maindeck creatures with evasion and 8 without, all of them can stack counters on Jitte.
Today I used Jitte to:
- Kill Noble Hierarchs that were pumping a Rox War Monk
- Make a War Monk into a 1/2 so my Mutavault could kill it and he'd only gain 1 life.
- Make the opponent not attack me with Goyfs because I could trade them for my creatures.
- Swung for the win because a 1/1 flier can get to be a 5/5 in short order
The main weakness of this deck is how small your creatures are. 1/1s and 2/2s are not scary to most decks. Add a Jitte to the equation and suddenly you can take down 5/6 Goyfs and stop Trygons, Birds, Dark Confidants, Noble Hierarchs, etc, etc, etc...
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Ornithopter sucks. It does not beat by itself, it is not a faerie, it is not a ninja (also, the M10 art does look like a flying bug more than an ornithopter). Everything it does is it is a Ninjutsu enabler for 0 = 1-drop. Zephyr Sprite is a better 1-drop. I realize that you can drop both Ornithopter and Sprite on turn 1 - but do you ('thopter players) realize that you cannot drop two clever ninjas on turn 2?
But we don't need, faerie player. A smart play on T1 is Thopter, go or Thopter, Mothdust (now Sprite) go. Why? Because:
1) You need an outlet fast, without it, gg. (in case you take a Burn in response, 2 outlets out is one way while not having to counter)
2) You can do Thopter go, other player plays Fetch and you Stifle it, or just Spell Snare what he casts.
I have chosen to play Spell Snare over Ornithopter. Then I chose to play an adittional Higure, an adittional Scion and 2x Vendilion Clique over Spell Snare - I never wanted to lose my 1-drop just to counter something that I can bounce later; if I cannot bounce something, I don't need to, it is not dangerous unless it is called Progenitus.
Then you stop playing Ninjas, and go try a bad faeries version of the deck (there is already a Tier2 Faerie deck with a better list), as extremely exposed above.
Any serious U player use the hardcore counter suit (Daze, Fow, Stifle, Spell Snare). Some kidding guys runs t2 stuff like Clique and Scion of Oona.
If you slow down your game that much, you'll just say gg to any deck around. Cause Scion and Clique are definitly not fast nor a Ninjutsu outlet.
Also Higure is awsome, but as 1-of as a huge mana consuming.
All that said alongside ALL extensive explanation given by Dissolution about the deck engine, which is pretty perfect. (we only disagree about Jitte, Writ of Passage, Cloud of Faeries, but his choices are very much acceptable, alot different from what you've chosen).
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
My view on Cloud of Faeries, which needs more vetting, is that you can drop it second turn and then drop Standstill or Jitte or use the mana to pull a Ninja through with Thopter. That way you have a damage swinging flier along with a thopter to pull something through even against a blocker later. Plus, you want the Jitte on something other than a Thopter, for obvious reasons.
If you keep Cloud of Faeries in, perhaps Mistbind in place of Higure is good?
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
It worked pretty well, and was damn fast. Had the same feel as your deck, from what I see from you report.
I dropped the deck however, due to a huge shift in the metagame: the printing and adoption of tarmogoyf in just about every single legacy deck around. Problem seems to be, they get a 5/6 for 2, you have to invest 5 mana and 2 cards for the same with flying.
How the hell do you get around this problem???
Splash green!
Just kidding--mostly. Sower of Temptation is one answer, I think. The Ninja would also probably try to control with Mistblade Shinobi keeping it off the board, though it's not a hard answer. Most people have some kind of graveyard hate in the sideboard to deal with this, Ichorid, etc. as well.
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
I've run a few MWS matches and I've been gold-fishing some and I see a general problem that's making me nervous. The clock on this is really slow, and once the ninjas hit, unless Higure comes out, it's hard to get them through again--they have no evasion. They are also all very tiny little things.
Anyone running in to this and working on answers? I'm actually considering pulling Higure, a Mistblade and 2x Spell Snare for 2x Sower and 2x Cryptic Command. These should help land-lubber ninjas swing through. Command could be sleep, but the extra counter, bounce or card draw seems like a good move.
But I'm not sure this is enough. There are some really glorious matches where you get a Thopter, then you standstill, swing a ninja through, draw another ninja, etc., but they all sort of require a brilliant hand and very nice draws.
Perhaps I'm being too cynical. I really like this deck, but I see it being very hit or miss and pretty much absent fat for the late game. Most other tribal decks answer that with lords, but the lord of the ninja doesn't really make them any bigger or trickier and you have to feed him mana you might otherwise hold for counters.
Thoughts? I'm afraid if I start pushing in Esperzoa, Vendilion Clique, etc. that I'll just end up with some kind of sub-par Faerie deck.
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
Walker of Secret Ways: use this card to bounce a ninja and make it go through a ninjutsu outlet (there are other usages for this card, but since this is the topic now, just mentioning it's one of them)
Ronin Warclub is a nice "Lord" for ninjas, since you don't swarm, improving the beating for "free" is a nice tech with your sneak creatures, this really put the clock into your favor. Some like Jitte, but i found it slower.
and ARRRGHH, NEVER use on 1.5 cards like Sower or Cryptic.
If you want to create path for free use Ensnare (even so i don't advice it).
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Against combo your maindeck counter package is pretty nice, and Chalice in the board set at 0 can stop mana artifacts(Mox/Led) and if you already have Vial down you can set it at 1 and stop them from Chant-ing you as well as using Rituals.
Against Stax, Energy Flux can be a lasting solution, and Hurkyl's Recall can be a temporary one.
Against fast aggro, this deck probably going to end up losing a lot. You could splash colors for answers, Green for Goyf or white for StP would help. Or you could try Sower of Temptation, Threads of Disloyalty and other creatures stealing effects. Odds are your fast aggro matchup will still be weak.
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I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Exactly, this deck doesn't run AEther Vial because it's unnecessary, all creatures are supposed to come into play through Ninjutsu, so avoiding counters and not triggering Standstill.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Thanks, all. I don't like that Walker activates on your turn only, but I think it might be what I need. I was also looking at Threads for the deck, but running thin on things I can pare down before I start hitting the counter package. Still not sold on Higure, but will test more. I've found him too weak for the cost as a closer, so I've actually toyed with Sower and Shackles, myself.
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
I'm going to be running this at an up coming legacy event and im using essencially your list. well v3. and im sneaking in 3 Curfew in place of the jitte for 2 reasons... 1) i personally like the idea of end of turn bounce your creature and my ninja/sprite and 2) cause i traded mine a while back. seems like a fun deck. im missing a few pieces here and there and i have some i need to pull out. ill let you know how im running it when it gets closer to the event and ill post my list then. Curfew > StillWind on paper. so after testing def get back to that. thanks for the idea...
whats next a new ninjafinatog again?
yo saw you took second or someone running your list did. gratz man!
I've just found Ninjutsu to be largely worse than AEther Vial as a Standstill strategy. The clock is too slow. It's intense fun and it's definitely a solid deck, but the lack of lords to improve creatures across the board has made wins harder than they are with a similar Merfolk or Faerie list.
That said, has anyone else (through playtesting, IRL, MWS, whatever) found evidence that this is as good as or stronger than a mono-blue tribal standstill variant?
My next test will be to ditch Jittes and see if an approach based more on Shackles and Sowers is stronger.
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
That said, has anyone else (through playtesting, IRL, MWS, whatever) found evidence that this is as good as or stronger than a mono-blue tribal standstill variant?.
Nope, no evidence, and you won't find it. This deck is like a Tier 2 deck, that needs a pretty decent opening hand (island, thopter, Shinobi, Deep Hours, Daze...) and start the game to do the job.
Anyway is a cool deck, and you can give some pretty tough games, but you won't push it into tier 1. So running it on a tournament is like a Rambo choice, but if you do the job, you'll really have joy on yourself.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
I may try Vendillion Clique to speed up my clock. I noticed you don't run Stifle. Could you talk about that decision? Also, how have you found Daze in the early game without Vials to regain tempo?
Last but not least, have you considered Back to Basics for the Sideboard?
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
Dissolution just became 2nd in a 60+ player tournament with his deck. I am winning the top tier decks with my deck all the time. This haven't proven anything yet, but I seriously think this deck is very competitive.
Kudos on the solid performances -- I am not questioning or challenging the success of the deck. Nevertheless, I DO challenge your SB choices.
If Ichorid and Goblins are running over you (Goblins killing you with 8 anti-red cards?), you're probably making wrong choices while SB'ing or you're using poor SB cards. Look at the below fixes:
3 Sower of Temptation // steal other critters
4 Back to Basics // eats Threshold, Zoo, Loam and most decks in a "highly developed metagame." Bottomline, if they need dual-lands to go anywhere, this is a kick in the nuts.
4 Propaganda // cripples Zoo, Goblins, Ichorid, and several other aggro decks if they can't deal with it immediately. Assuming this resolves, you just bought yourself at least a turn or two that will allow you to re-stabilize or finish them off.
4 Relic of Progenitus // used for Threshold, Loam, Ichorid, etc
This SB list should help you dominate Loam, Goblins, and Ichorid. Threshold, assuming you were capable of beating them, should only continue to be a solid matchup. I like your calls on Sower and Relic but felt compelled to scrap the heavy anti-red plan (goblins) in favor of a more anti-generic problems (ie; hit their non basics and stop aggro). I believe this SB is an improvement, given your circumstances -- give it a try.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Chalices shut down the Ornithopter, so you'd probably want to swap in for those. I picked up two Mutavault this weekend and need two more--they definitely help with the Spellstutter Sprite. As for Jitte, Warclub works well in this deck but the dual benefit to Jitte is that not only can it straight out win some games, but it also doubles as a sorcery-speed effect to kill the opponent's Jitte for two mana. Don't underestimate that value.
In sticking to mono-blue, Back to Basics is still pretty strong in the sideboard. I don't run Wasteland in this. Just vaults. I do run 3 Stifle, so I can often protect my vaults. I prefer Threads over Sower in this because the Sower is so easy to kill (Volcanic Fallout against counters or just Bolt, STP, yada yada) and Threads can grab Goyf, which is a pretty common move. Forcing them to kill their own creature if they can't Disenchant the Threads is quite nice.
I have a playset of Vedalken Shackles and I've had mixed results using this instead of Jitte. I haven't tested it as thoroughly as I'd like, but compared to Jitte, it's slower and it won't do anything against non-creature-dependent control decks. Threads is an immediate steal without tying down mana in the following turn (assuming you don't play and steal before untapping, assuming five mana available).
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
I would really, really like Aven Mimeomancer in this shell... A small splash should be manageable and he makes all creatures more aggressives, gives Ninjas Evasion and turns Goyfs or other fatties into tradeable Flyers.
I have a crazy list:
Mishra's can play around B2B, because an untapped Mishra can still trade every 3/3 and is not useless...
B2B is just gg in so many matchups... This list has a lack of faeries and cc-1 creatures... But it has still many many tricks and much carddraw.
There's a thread on the source that is discussing the mimeomancer variant. I've been playtesting serveral versions of the deck for months and a video was just added vs. merfolk fish today.
I have won many of my Merfolk match-ups on MWS. Also, I have won many of my Threshold (tempo and countertop, but NOT Canadian) match-ups on MWS. Also, I have won many of my Zoo match-ups on MWS. Also, I have won many of my Aggro Loam match-ups on MWS. Goblins do beat me. Ichorid does beat me. I would probably win ANT if I faced one.
Dissolution just became 2nd in a 60+ player tournament with his deck. I am winning the top tier decks with my deck all the time. This haven't proven anything yet, but I seriously think this deck is very competitive.
I don't doubt that the deck can solid win, but, at least with me, most decks have superior board control than this one.
Another point is that MWS usually don't have very skillful players (not diminishing the victories, just pointing out. But i must say that MODO, many times, don't offer solid opponents as well).
Zoo/Merfolks/Gobbos/Elves/Ichorid are really annoying MU's, if you don't get a strong start, this deck get rolled. Threash is a lighter MU as is Aggro-Loam, both indeed have a bad MU vs Ninjas.
I guess the real deal of this deck is that, without a really good hand, it's really hard to get into the game once the board is dominated by the opponent, while other decks have more tricks to turn over the table, that's why i claim this deck is not Tier 1, because it seems that there are better ones out there.
Don't get me wrong, i LOVE the deck and ninja mechanics, i even have one built with me, but my Merfolk/Gobbos/Elvish decks seems to have more solid ways to regroup (get back to the game) after getting screwed then this one.
Or maybe, i'm not skilled enough with this deck, only God Knows, but while playing i can't realize many misplays that i did.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
I just played against an Affinity deck on MWS. I swung with Zephyr Sprite, Cloud of Faeries and Spellstutter Sprite against two defending Ornithopters. The guy says, "iblock" and then takes a damage. I proceed (holding two Ninja of the Deep Hours in hand) to inquire as to which faeries he was blocking. He repeated that he was blocking two and taking one. I then requested specifically which of the faeries was the one faerie that he was allowing to hit him. At this point, he started urging me to play faster, so I said "Sorry, I can't end my turn until I'm finished with all my moves. I need to know which faerie you are not blocking. It is important for my deck, as I have cards that are dependent on blocks." Of course, I'd already ninja'd on him once, so it should have registered.
This only urged him to start saying things like "fast" a few more times. I laughed pretty hard. The guy refused to actually declare blockers, apparently never grasping the significance, and eventually told me to... well, you know. Anyway, I suggested he look me up after he's scored a rulebook and read it a few times.
That was really amusing and now I like the deck twice as much ;-)
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Playing: UB Infect or whatever Ali Aintrazi brews in Standard, Reanimator in Legacy and not playing Fail Format.
I just got done playing a quick Legacy tournament today, thought I'd post more thoughts on the deck. (I'm playing v3 card for card)
First round was against Stasis. Not a great deck, didn't really give me troubles.
Second round was Belcher. No contest.
Third round, however, was UWGB landstill. G1 I was Sworded 3 times, Edicted 3 times, and 3 Deeds were blown and I still won. Writ of Passage is insane. The only reason I won were unblockable Mutavaults as well as an early active Jitte.
Game two I just dropped threat after threat and had Needles for Deed.
The games taught me two valuable lessons.
One: Overcommit. You recover so fast from a lot of board wipe (and run manlands), so never be afraid of dropping another creature on the board and just swinging in. The only things you should hold back are Ninjas.
Two: Writ of Passage wins games by itself. Forecasting while Standstill is in play is amazing, and constantly swinging 2/2 that draws a card (or a 1/1 that bounces their creatures) will break the back of a lot of decks.
I don't know what I'd cut to go to 3 Writs, but I'll figure it out and get back to all of you.
-T
Writ of Passage is amazing "if" you are on the aggressive. Mistblade Shinobi that can't be blocked means they can't keep Goyfs in play to swing on you late game. That is a huge advantage. However, the disadvantage is that its a card that doesn't let you defend yourself in any way. Having 2 or 3 in your hand can only fuel a Force of Will and not much more and when playing vs Zoo or Goblins that have started the process of overrunning you. That card leaves very little in the way of turning a game around defensively.
That said it is a really cool card for the deck. Has great uses and just a slight fallback as mention above. Worth playing imo.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+ Currently Playing:RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU Author of:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
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And shroud stops your Jittes from working. See below for why this is a bad thing.
Higure has been cut from my final version because 4 mana is just insane. With this deck's card draw, the only time you don't have better things to spend your mana on is when you're topdecking. I confess, he's best at this point, so you're right about only running 1-2. But consider Writ of Passage instead of him. Works through Standstill just the same, but it can be used a lot sooner, when it matters most.
I can't stress enough how amazing Ornithopter is. You drop it turn 1 to block Lackey, then you Ninja it turn 2/3 and just replay it right away. I've seen enough games of T1 Thopter, T2 Mistblade, T3 Deep Hours that couldn't be done unless you had a 0-drop working overtime.
Latchkey Faerie is terrible. What card in the deck is this better than?
Also, I'm going to say this again: Jitte is how this deck wins. I'm now Top 2 in the tournament with this, Jitte won me both of my games by itself. I board in the 4th Jitte often enough that I almost want to run 4 main. You run 12 maindeck creatures with evasion and 8 without, all of them can stack counters on Jitte.
Today I used Jitte to:
- Kill Noble Hierarchs that were pumping a Rox War Monk
- Make a War Monk into a 1/2 so my Mutavault could kill it and he'd only gain 1 life.
- Make the opponent not attack me with Goyfs because I could trade them for my creatures.
- Swung for the win because a 1/1 flier can get to be a 5/5 in short order
The main weakness of this deck is how small your creatures are. 1/1s and 2/2s are not scary to most decks. Add a Jitte to the equation and suddenly you can take down 5/6 Goyfs and stop Trygons, Birds, Dark Confidants, Noble Hierarchs, etc, etc, etc...
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
Pretty sure Jitte is essential to this deck, 3 easily IMO.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
But we don't need, faerie player. A smart play on T1 is Thopter, go or Thopter, Mothdust (now Sprite) go. Why? Because:
1) You need an outlet fast, without it, gg. (in case you take a Burn in response, 2 outlets out is one way while not having to counter)
2) You can do Thopter go, other player plays Fetch and you Stifle it, or just Spell Snare what he casts.
Not to mention how awsome it is on Gobbos MU.
Then you stop playing Ninjas, and go try a bad faeries version of the deck (there is already a Tier2 Faerie deck with a better list), as extremely exposed above.
Any serious U player use the hardcore counter suit (Daze, Fow, Stifle, Spell Snare). Some kidding guys runs t2 stuff like Clique and Scion of Oona.
If you slow down your game that much, you'll just say gg to any deck around. Cause Scion and Clique are definitly not fast nor a Ninjutsu outlet.
Also Higure is awsome, but as 1-of as a huge mana consuming.
All that said alongside ALL extensive explanation given by Dissolution about the deck engine, which is pretty perfect. (we only disagree about Jitte, Writ of Passage, Cloud of Faeries, but his choices are very much acceptable, alot different from what you've chosen).
If you keep Cloud of Faeries in, perhaps Mistbind in place of Higure is good?
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
Splash green!
Just kidding--mostly. Sower of Temptation is one answer, I think. The Ninja would also probably try to control with Mistblade Shinobi keeping it off the board, though it's not a hard answer. Most people have some kind of graveyard hate in the sideboard to deal with this, Ichorid, etc. as well.
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
Anyone running in to this and working on answers? I'm actually considering pulling Higure, a Mistblade and 2x Spell Snare for 2x Sower and 2x Cryptic Command. These should help land-lubber ninjas swing through. Command could be sleep, but the extra counter, bounce or card draw seems like a good move.
But I'm not sure this is enough. There are some really glorious matches where you get a Thopter, then you standstill, swing a ninja through, draw another ninja, etc., but they all sort of require a brilliant hand and very nice draws.
Perhaps I'm being too cynical. I really like this deck, but I see it being very hit or miss and pretty much absent fat for the late game. Most other tribal decks answer that with lords, but the lord of the ninja doesn't really make them any bigger or trickier and you have to feed him mana you might otherwise hold for counters.
Thoughts? I'm afraid if I start pushing in Esperzoa, Vendilion Clique, etc. that I'll just end up with some kind of sub-par Faerie deck.
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
Walker of Secret Ways: use this card to bounce a ninja and make it go through a ninjutsu outlet (there are other usages for this card, but since this is the topic now, just mentioning it's one of them)
Ronin Warclub is a nice "Lord" for ninjas, since you don't swarm, improving the beating for "free" is a nice tech with your sneak creatures, this really put the clock into your favor. Some like Jitte, but i found it slower.
and ARRRGHH, NEVER use on 1.5 cards like Sower or Cryptic.
If you want to create path for free use Ensnare (even so i don't advice it).
Against Stax, Energy Flux can be a lasting solution, and Hurkyl's Recall can be a temporary one.
Against fast aggro, this deck probably going to end up losing a lot. You could splash colors for answers, Green for Goyf or white for StP would help. Or you could try Sower of Temptation, Threads of Disloyalty and other creatures stealing effects. Odds are your fast aggro matchup will still be weak.
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Thanks.
Modern
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
RWGBurnGWR
Legacy
UWStonebladeWU
Exactly, this deck doesn't run AEther Vial because it's unnecessary, all creatures are supposed to come into play through Ninjutsu, so avoiding counters and not triggering Standstill.
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
whats next a new ninjafinatog again?
yo saw you took second or someone running your list did. gratz man!
Sig and Avvy by Heroes of the Plane Studios
Ninjas
Fish
Dredge
EDH
Sharuum
I appreciate the discussion and I like the ideas I've seen.
Also curious how SweatyMan did in his/her tournament.
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
That said, has anyone else (through playtesting, IRL, MWS, whatever) found evidence that this is as good as or stronger than a mono-blue tribal standstill variant?
My next test will be to ditch Jittes and see if an approach based more on Shackles and Sowers is stronger.
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
Nope, no evidence, and you won't find it. This deck is like a Tier 2 deck, that needs a pretty decent opening hand (island, thopter, Shinobi, Deep Hours, Daze...) and start the game to do the job.
Anyway is a cool deck, and you can give some pretty tough games, but you won't push it into tier 1. So running it on a tournament is like a Rambo choice, but if you do the job, you'll really have joy on yourself.
Last but not least, have you considered Back to Basics for the Sideboard?
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
Kudos on the solid performances -- I am not questioning or challenging the success of the deck. Nevertheless, I DO challenge your SB choices.
If Ichorid and Goblins are running over you (Goblins killing you with 8 anti-red cards?), you're probably making wrong choices while SB'ing or you're using poor SB cards. Look at the below fixes:
3 Sower of Temptation // steal other critters
4 Back to Basics // eats Threshold, Zoo, Loam and most decks in a "highly developed metagame." Bottomline, if they need dual-lands to go anywhere, this is a kick in the nuts.
4 Propaganda // cripples Zoo, Goblins, Ichorid, and several other aggro decks if they can't deal with it immediately. Assuming this resolves, you just bought yourself at least a turn or two that will allow you to re-stabilize or finish them off.
4 Relic of Progenitus // used for Threshold, Loam, Ichorid, etc
This SB list should help you dominate Loam, Goblins, and Ichorid. Threshold, assuming you were capable of beating them, should only continue to be a solid matchup. I like your calls on Sower and Relic but felt compelled to scrap the heavy anti-red plan (goblins) in favor of a more anti-generic problems (ie; hit their non basics and stop aggro). I believe this SB is an improvement, given your circumstances -- give it a try.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Sig and Avvy by Heroes of the Plane Studios
Ninjas
Fish
Dredge
EDH
Sharuum
In sticking to mono-blue, Back to Basics is still pretty strong in the sideboard. I don't run Wasteland in this. Just vaults. I do run 3 Stifle, so I can often protect my vaults. I prefer Threads over Sower in this because the Sower is so easy to kill (Volcanic Fallout against counters or just Bolt, STP, yada yada) and Threads can grab Goyf, which is a pretty common move. Forcing them to kill their own creature if they can't Disenchant the Threads is quite nice.
I have a playset of Vedalken Shackles and I've had mixed results using this instead of Jitte. I haven't tested it as thoroughly as I'd like, but compared to Jitte, it's slower and it won't do anything against non-creature-dependent control decks. Threads is an immediate steal without tying down mana in the following turn (assuming you don't play and steal before untapping, assuming five mana available).
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
There's a thread on the source that is discussing the mimeomancer variant. I've been playtesting serveral versions of the deck for months and a video was just added vs. merfolk fish today.
Here's the list I run now
2 Island
1 Plateau
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wu Scout
4 Meddling Mage
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
I opt not to run standstill/vial (personal preference/bad experiences not getting the both at the same time or a turn1 vial).
The problem with Fish is there's so many different ways to approach it that sometimes it seems like there should be multiple threads.
I don't doubt that the deck can solid win, but, at least with me, most decks have superior board control than this one.
Another point is that MWS usually don't have very skillful players (not diminishing the victories, just pointing out. But i must say that MODO, many times, don't offer solid opponents as well).
Zoo/Merfolks/Gobbos/Elves/Ichorid are really annoying MU's, if you don't get a strong start, this deck get rolled. Threash is a lighter MU as is Aggro-Loam, both indeed have a bad MU vs Ninjas.
I guess the real deal of this deck is that, without a really good hand, it's really hard to get into the game once the board is dominated by the opponent, while other decks have more tricks to turn over the table, that's why i claim this deck is not Tier 1, because it seems that there are better ones out there.
Don't get me wrong, i LOVE the deck and ninja mechanics, i even have one built with me, but my Merfolk/Gobbos/Elvish decks seems to have more solid ways to regroup (get back to the game) after getting screwed then this one.
Or maybe, i'm not skilled enough with this deck, only God Knows, but while playing i can't realize many misplays that i did.
This only urged him to start saying things like "fast" a few more times. I laughed pretty hard. The guy refused to actually declare blockers, apparently never grasping the significance, and eventually told me to... well, you know. Anyway, I suggested he look me up after he's scored a rulebook and read it a few times.
That was really amusing and now I like the deck twice as much ;-)
For FNM reports, Legacy reports and commentary: http://justindz.tumblr.com
First round was against Stasis. Not a great deck, didn't really give me troubles.
Second round was Belcher. No contest.
Third round, however, was UWGB landstill. G1 I was Sworded 3 times, Edicted 3 times, and 3 Deeds were blown and I still won. Writ of Passage is insane. The only reason I won were unblockable Mutavaults as well as an early active Jitte.
Game two I just dropped threat after threat and had Needles for Deed.
The games taught me two valuable lessons.
One: Overcommit. You recover so fast from a lot of board wipe (and run manlands), so never be afraid of dropping another creature on the board and just swinging in. The only things you should hold back are Ninjas.
Two: Writ of Passage wins games by itself. Forecasting while Standstill is in play is amazing, and constantly swinging 2/2 that draws a card (or a 1/1 that bounces their creatures) will break the back of a lot of decks.
I don't know what I'd cut to go to 3 Writs, but I'll figure it out and get back to all of you.
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
That said it is a really cool card for the deck. Has great uses and just a slight fallback as mention above. Worth playing imo.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)