It's true that you can't respond to the Vial with knowledge of what's coming until the Revoker is already in game, but you can respond to the "card naming" triggered, so even though they may not be sure the Revoker will name pernicious deed, they can break it just in case.
It can't, since its not a triggered ability, Prevoker's ability is a static ability. For example, lets remove vial and Revoker from the game and talk about Pithing Needle.
When you cast the needle, your opponent CAN activate anything he wants before the needle resolves. That is, while it is STILL in the stack: Note, it hasn't resolved yet! But once it does resolve, you name the card as part of the resolution of the spell. So it hits play knowng the named card.
Now let's return to Revoker. If you vial it in, your opponent can't know what you are putting into play. The only thing to hit the stack in this case is the vial's trigger. He sure can play his abilities in response to the vial's trigger, however he doesn't know what you're vialing in. So if he does lets you resolve vial, by the time you reveal it is a revoker, two things have already happened. First, it was already put into play, and second, you have already named a card. This is specially good when talking about him using the stack. That is, if your opponent casts anything with an activated ability, you can in response vial a Prevoker naming the card he still has in the stack. So if it resolves, he won't be able to pop it.
Just to get technical here. The Comprehensive Rules make it really easy for us in Rule 404.1: a triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” That’s it, really. If the ability doesn’t have one of those three words, it’s not a triggered ability.
the sb changes are based on removing city of brass maindeck,
and it increases your affinity count.
-4 City of Brass (as i want to run ancient tomb, lifeloss would be a bit much)
+4 Underground Sea
SB:
-3 Ethersworn Canonist (great card, but requires white mana, chalice does the same job. (mostly))
-3 Krosan Grip (requires green mana, annul does the same job, and is pitchable to fow.)
+3 chalice of the void
+3 annul
-3 perish (i never liked this card much. i ran Engineered Plague.meekstone is better)
+3 meekstone( meekstone shuts down nearly every creature. especially with vedalken certarch it is damn strong. and it increases your artifact count. and with cc1 it's even playable when your manabase is heavily disrupted)
i haven't tested this list yet, but it should accelerate into cc3/4 faster.
not sure about winter orb. needs testing if it slows us too much. but tomb+mox+springleaf could be enough
I'd love to get rid of the City of Brass too. As for Challice of the Void, i'd love to try that. IT can backfire sure, but with Vials in play it should be a safe bet. Certainly Challice would require us to run Ancient Tomb. I agree on that.
Im just not sold on Meekstone/annul yet. meekstone seems like a mid to late game answer to aggro decks like Fish and zoo. However Goblins would just laugh it off. Those buggers are too small :S
I'd rather run Engineered Plague Over meekstone if anything. Ill test some of this ideas later on today when I come back from the hospital! thanks for your input!! really appreciate it!
It can't, since its not a triggered ability, Prevoker's ability is a static ability. For example, lets remove vial and Revoker from the game and talk about Pithing Needle.
When you cast the needle, your opponent CAN activate anything he wants before the needle resolves. That is, while it is STILL in the stack: Note, it hasn't resolved yet! But once it does resolve, you name the card as part of the resolution of the spell. So it hits play knowng the named card.
Now let's return to Revoker. If you vial it in, your opponent can't know what you are putting into play. The only thing to hit the stack in this case is the vial's trigger. He sure can play his abilities in response to the vial's trigger, however he doesn't know what you're vialing in. So if he does lets you resolve vial, by the time you reveal it is a revoker, two things have already happened. First, it was already put into play, and second, you have already named a card. This is specially good when talking about him using the stack. That is, if your opponent casts anything with an activated ability, you can in response vial a Prevoker naming the card he still has in the stack. So if it resolves, he won't be able to pop it.
Just to get technical here. The Comprehensive Rules make it really easy for us in Rule 404.1: a triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” That’s it, really. If the ability doesn’t have one of those three words, it’s not a triggered ability.
And for this case in particular, go check "example 2" in the same link!
Not only is this correct, if he does indeed pop a Deed in response to your Vial trigger, you can neglect to put anything into play, preventing your Revoker from being destroyed.
Ok, one quick note. i deemed it fit to narrate this game I just had hahahaha
G1.
JM: Played Ancient Tomb pass.
Aluren: I open with Mox Opal, Darksteel Citadel, Ornithopter and Aether Vial. No FoW in hand. PASS
JM: Volcanic island, Show and tell. He puts Progenitus I put revoker. Next two turns he wins.
G2 I SB out tezzerets in favor of Perishes.
I open game with 2 Darksteel Citadel, Aether Vial, 2 FoW 1 MoE 1 Thoughtcast 1 Certarch.
Aluren: Play Citadel, Vial pAss
JM: Play Volcanic Island, Brainstorm pass
Aluren: Vial on 1. Citadel PAsS
JM Ancient Tomb, Pass. I EOT Certarch into play.
Aluren: PLay Cranial plating, he Spell pierced. Pass
JM: Volcanic Island, Impulse PASS
Aluren: Seat of Synod, pass
JM: Taps Tomb, 1 Volcanic and Traitors: Sneak Attack. I FoW discarding thoughtcast. he Spell pierced, I FoW yet again discarding MoE. PASS
Aluren: Vial to 3. Pass
JM: Shaterstorm. I put to Grave all but the Certarch and 2 Darksteel Citadels.
The following Conversation ensues:
<JM> ALL
<JM> lands too
<Gasteasoro> haha
<JM> artifact land
<Gasteasoro> read
<Gasteasoro> pls
<Gasteasoro> READ
<Gasteasoro> lol
<JM> ok
<JM> Ok
JM puts Shatterstorm to Graveyard from Play
<Gasteasoro> LMAO, learn to read cards before playing them please.
<JM> End my turn
Aluren: Mox Opal, pass
JM: Intuition into 3 Show and tell. then cast it. He put Emrakul into play. I don't ahve anything but my ACTIVE CERTARCH.
Aluren: THoughtcast, MoE + Perish
JM: During his upkeep I tap down his Emrakul with Certarch. Another conversation ensues:
<Gasteasoro> taps Vedalken Certarch
<Gasteasoro> Ok?
<JM> Thinking
<JM> I win. Your deck is stupid and you too
<System> Player Lost
So yeah, its this kind of players that make me LOVE this deck HAHAHA THey just can't stand their gameplan being foiled so they just rant, curse and quit. I guess that makes them feel proud.
On a sidenote: Im pretty confident this MU its an instant loss to Most affinity builds out there but this.
Edit: Just added the Thread Banner! Special thanks to mchief111 for his AMAZING PIECE!!
That is, if your opponent casts anything with an activated ability, you can in response vial a Prevoker naming the card he still has in the stack. So if it resolves, he won't be able to pop it.
If someone activates an ability, and it's already on the stack, Revoker shouldn't be able to stop it.
It's not a Stifle. It doesn't counter activated abilities.
It just stops abilities from being activated after it hits the field.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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If someone activates an ability, and it's already on the stack, Revoker shouldn't be able to stop it.
It's not a Stifle. It doesn't counter activated abilities.
It just stops abilities from being activated after it hits the field.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
You're right there. However I said:
Originally Posted by Aluren
That is, if your opponent casts anything with an activated ability, you can in response vial a Prevoker naming the card he still has in the stack. So if it resolves, he won't be able to pop it.
That is, while such card hasn't seen play yet. While it is still on the stack. As per stack rules, you can response with a Prevoker, and first one in, last one out. So Prevoker hits play Before that card, and you name it. SO when it does resolve, it will be stagnant for it won't be able to activate,
EDIT:
Ok, I tested the Winter Orb. IT does slow me down too much. although I can vial guys in, it just doesn't quite make the cut. I also tried the x4 drums against the x4 vials. and vials made it so much better. Instant speed uncounterable guys its just too good. I can't recall how many tarmogoyfs have splattered against an Etched Champion or against a huge MoE. Vial needs to stay.
As for the lands. I was thinking, i could do off without Krosan grips, that way I could change the City of brass to Ancient Den to help the Ethersworn Cannonist. and turn those Grips into spell pierces/Annuls/THopter Foundry/Challice... THoughts on this?
What about Glimmervoid? There are enough artifacts to support it.
Hi hi! You see, the problem with Glimmervoid is that my average mana cost is somewhere around 2.5/3. I only run 12 artifacts that have a CMC of 1 or less. So Glimmervoid is not that good of a first hander, whereas City of brass is. There have been games where I just play CIty of brass and pass first turn. Those would'nt be possible. Same has happened where I played a turn 1 Vial and it gets countered. That would effectively lose me the Glimmervoid at EOT. I do run many artifacts. But not nearly enough low on the curve to play glimmervoid safely :S
That is, while such card hasn't seen play yet. While it is still on the stack. As per stack rules, you can response with a Prevoker, and first one in, last one out. So Prevoker hits play Before that card, and you name it. SO when it does resolve, it will be stagnant for it won't be able to activate,
EDIT:
Ok, I tested the Winter Orb. IT does slow me down too much. although I can vial guys in, it just doesn't quite make the cut. I also tried the x4 drums against the x4 vials. and vials made it so much better. Instant speed uncounterable guys its just too good. I can't recall how many tarmogoyfs have splattered against an Etched Champion or against a huge MoE. Vial needs to stay.
As for the lands. I was thinking, i could do off without Krosan grips, that way I could change the City of brass to Ancient Den to help the Ethersworn Cannonist. and turn those Grips into spell pierces/Annuls/THopter Foundry/Challice... THoughts on this?
I see. I thought your post meant that if an opponent activated something, your vialed-in-response Revoker would somehow Stifle the activation.
If you're going to take out some Drums, you'd probably need the City of Brass. Affinity doesn't have any duals, so to insure that you can cast that 2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas you have in your hand, you might need the City of Brass.
Chalice seems good though.
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Have you considered adding Dark Confidant? I know that the curve is slightly higher now than before, but if you're playing a controllish version, your deck should consider playing him. Possibly in SB for more grindish MUs.
I think Confidant plays excellently with this deck. The lifeloss from him is offset by ending the game much faster off CA. Natural Order wins games for green and Dark Confidant wins games for black.
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I think Confidant plays excellently with this deck. The lifeloss from him is offset by ending the game much faster off CA. Natural Order wins games for green and Dark Confidant wins games for black.
On average, and without taking enemy damage into account. Dark confidant will net me 6 cards before it kills me. Kind of risky IMO.
As for Tidehollow Sculler. I like it indeed, but im just hesitant on :symw::symb:
i already have a hard time getting :symu::symb: turn 4 for tezzeret :S
Ok, tomorrow I'll be trying a new thing. Ornithopter its a great card, but that is because it flies. So... Ill try Thopter Foundry. I think tomorrow Ill have enough time to test it. I'm still hesitant on adding Sword of the Meek though. Need to play with the numbers to see how it would fare. It would rise the Blue cards count to 23 so... Worth to say that I've never played Thopter/Sword Combo so I'd love to get some input on the numbers and some tips to it before I go test it on the wild. I was thinking of
Have you thought about MD Ethersworn Canonist instead of the Foundry Meek combination?
Foundry doesn't really seem right for this deck IMO. Canonist MD would probably only increase your ability to control the board with your few creatures and counter spells. If not, try to find other suitable utility creatures that is artifact who is at 1 or 2 casting cost range.
I've tested Ancient Tombs in the more aggro build, and so far it has not been disappointing. I only use 2 copies of it though, because I still think that having access to 5c mana is important. Both in terms of sideboard applications and making sure you don't get color screwed all too regularly.
On average, and without taking enemy damage into account. Dark confidant will net me 6 cards before it kills me. Kind of risky IMO.
The average CMC for your deck on the primer is 1.7. You calculate that by adding up ALL the casting costs, and divide by number of cards in your deck.
The total casting cost of your deck is 102, divide that by the 60 cards, it's 1.7. So through math, drawing 6 cards with Confidant, on average will deal you a little over 10 damage, on average.
So while I agree it is risky in your deck, it will not kill you, as your doing the math wrong.
Hi hi! You see, the problem with Glimmervoid is that my average mana cost is somewhere around 2.5/3. I only run 12 artifacts that have a CMC of 1 or less. So Glimmervoid is not that good of a first hander, whereas City of brass is. There have been games where I just play CIty of brass and pass first turn. Those would'nt be possible. Same has happened where I played a turn 1 Vial and it gets countered. That would effectively lose me the Glimmervoid at EOT. I do run many artifacts. But not nearly enough low on the curve to play glimmervoid safely :S
What about your artifact lands?
Is there a reason why you wanted to try the thoptersword in this deck? (maybe I missed it, I'm at work on my phone :-/.)
The average CMC for your deck on the primer is 1.7. You calculate that by adding up ALL the casting costs, and divide by number of cards in your deck.
The total casting cost of your deck is 102, divide that by the 60 cards, it's 1.7. So through math, drawing 6 cards with Confidant, on average will deal you a little over 10 damage, on average.
So while I agree it is risky in your deck, it will not kill you, as your doing the math wrong.
I would love it if actually gave ideas for the deck rather than just coming to say what is right and what's not. I'm running a different version than the one in the first post since as I've said, I'm constantly tweaking this. So yeah... Please try to offer more to the topic rather than playing the role of a judge. Thanks!
BTW: Since you're in a mood to point out who is wrong... It's said "You're"... not your...
i still think AEther Vial is suboptimal
only 16 creatures, and no good tricks you can do with it.
Ancient tomb should do a much better job, as you can play your fatties much faster.
Thopter Foundry does nothing for your deck.
you dont have disciple, and saccing your high-cost artifacts is not what you want.
I completely disagree on it being suboptimal, and saying there are no good tricks I can play with it its just plain wrong IMO. What I hate the most is to get my key cards countered. The second thing I hate the most is getting my lands blown. Vial makes my life easier by letting me keep 1 land hands and by solving the counter problems. Besides, I've already lost count of how many times I've won games by EOT vialing in a champion. How many times has a MoE chump blocked. But most importantly. How many times I've screwed activated abillities via Phyrexian Revoker. Amongst the most important ones I'd say there is Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice. Pernicios Deed/EExplosives, Qasali Pridemages and pretty much anything.
As for the foundry, I don't like the idea either. Was just trying new things. After all, thats how I came up with this. And it's FoW pitchable
Have you thought about MD Ethersworn Canonist instead of the Foundry Meek combination?
Foundry doesn't really seem right for this deck IMO. Canonist MD would probably only increase your ability to control the board with your few creatures and counter spells. If not, try to find other suitable utility creatures that is artifact who is at 1 or 2 casting cost range.
I've been thinking about that. But that'd leave Champion as the only evasion creature in here. Not so sure how I feel about that :/
Is there a reason why you wanted to try the thoptersword in this deck? (maybe I missed it, I'm at work on my phone :-/.)
The main reason I wanted to repalce Ornithopter with Foundry is that it can create flying tokens which could run platings. Plus it is an extra blue card that could potentially be pitched to FoW.
As for the Artifact lands. What worries me the most is getting a first hand in which the only lands are Glimmervoids. If I do get, for instance; a Darksteel Citadel, that is always the first land I play. However, i think glimmerviod is to fragile since I'm not running that many turn 1 artifacts.
I recently got back from the SCG L.A. open, where I watched my friend take 3rd with dredge. Coming back, I decided I wanted to build affinity, as mirroden was my favorite block to date. After looking at swarm affinity for a while, I saw this thread, deciding that this is what I'd like to build. I have a few thoughts/ideas on the deck so far.
-Glimmervoid, as you have said, is a bit finicky, especially turn 1. Why not run 2-3 though for late game mana fixing?
-I really like the idea of running Ethersworn Cannonist in the main deck, especially with this evolving into a control build. Not only does it slow your opponent, but it gives you another body to swing with and another artifact for metalcraft. If you do, then running Tidehollow Sculler in the deck seems more viable, giving you more dudes and more modes for your vials. Sculler seems like a more synergistic Thoughtseize effect.
-I personally don't like the Spring Leaf Drums in the deck. While I see that they help with the mana base, they seem like bad topdecks, bad tezz targets, and the creatures in your deck are small in number compared to swarm affinity.
-I feel like there should be more blue cards that can be pitched to FoW, any ideas?
-This deck should be called something else, as there is currently no affinity in the deck. Something along the lines of control metal? Affinitycraft? Tezzcraft? Blue mud? I suck at names =D
Anyway, I hope I didn't come off as judgmental toward the deck, as I know that it is still a work in progress. Just thought I'd put my thoughts in and see what came of it.
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Planning Ertai, the Corrupted
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I recently got back from the SCG L.A. open, where I watched my friend take 3rd with dredge. Coming back, I decided I wanted to build affinity, as mirroden was my favorite block to date. After looking at swarm affinity for a while, I saw this thread, deciding that this is what I'd like to build. I have a few thoughts/ideas on the deck so far.
-Glimmervoid, as you have said, is a bit finicky, especially turn 1. Why not run 2-3 though for late game mana fixing?
-I really like the idea of running Ethersworn Cannonist in the main deck, especially with this evolving into a control build. Not only does it slow your opponent, but it gives you another body to swing with and another artifact for metalcraft. If you do, then running Tidehollow Sculler in the deck seems more viable, giving you more dudes and more modes for your vials. Sculler seems like a more synergistic Thoughtseize effect.
-I personally don't like the Spring Leaf Drums in the deck. While I see that they help with the mana base, they seem like bad topdecks, bad tezz targets, and the creatures in your deck are small in number compared to swarm affinity.
-I feel like there should be more blue cards that can be pitched to FoW, any ideas?
-This deck should be called something else, as there is currently no affinity in the deck. Something along the lines of control metal? Affinitycraft? Tezzcraft? Blue mud? I suck at names =D
Anyway, I hope I didn't come off as judgmental toward the deck, as I know that it is still a work in progress. Just thought I'd put my thoughts in and see what came of it.
As for point one. Running City of brass serves for both, turn 1 and late game mana fixing. We sure get to suffer a little from it, but I think it's worth it.
As for point two. Very well, ill try running Cannonist MD. I'll have to tweak though, but it could be worth it. Its a nice Vial trick as well. as in response to popping LEDs or to playing seething songs If this is the case, then Tidehollow sculler could very easily take its 3 spots in SB. Though as is, i'd rather replace 4 Ornithopters with 4 Scullers and keep the cannonists in SB.
3: I need to update the list already. Drums are already out in my build. In favor of completing vial/Prevoker and MoE.
4: There was this attempt back then. It was called DeepBlue I think. It was an affinity build that tried to run FoW and Esperzoa but it didn't POP. I do like the name "Deep Blue" Though this is subjective.
Space is what I'm struggling with as well. But vs. Emrakul/Progenitus.dec you need Edicts at least to have a decent shot against their fast hand. Turn 1-3 Show and Tell etc.
Space is what I'm struggling with as well. But vs. Emrakul/Progenitus.dec you need Edicts at least to have a decent shot against their fast hand. Turn 1-3 Show and Tell etc.
Actually Emrakul it's easy to deal with. With 4 Certarchs it's easy pie. However Progenitus... that one is a 2 turn clock for me if it sees play. I run Perish in SB though, so that takes care of Progenitus. And certarch takes care of anything else but Goblin Piledriver.
I was thinking seriously on Gemstone Caverns. Seems like a good card IMO. Or am I just crazy?
It can't, since its not a triggered ability, Prevoker's ability is a static ability. For example, lets remove vial and Revoker from the game and talk about Pithing Needle.
When you cast the needle, your opponent CAN activate anything he wants before the needle resolves. That is, while it is STILL in the stack: Note, it hasn't resolved yet! But once it does resolve, you name the card as part of the resolution of the spell. So it hits play knowng the named card.
Now let's return to Revoker. If you vial it in, your opponent can't know what you are putting into play. The only thing to hit the stack in this case is the vial's trigger. He sure can play his abilities in response to the vial's trigger, however he doesn't know what you're vialing in. So if he does lets you resolve vial, by the time you reveal it is a revoker, two things have already happened. First, it was already put into play, and second, you have already named a card. This is specially good when talking about him using the stack. That is, if your opponent casts anything with an activated ability, you can in response vial a Prevoker naming the card he still has in the stack. So if it resolves, he won't be able to pop it.
Just to get technical here. The Comprehensive Rules make it really easy for us in Rule 404.1: a triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” That’s it, really. If the ability doesn’t have one of those three words, it’s not a triggered ability.
For further reference on Triggered abilities, go check --->
http://mtgsalvation.com/805-magic-101-triggered-abilities.html
And for this case in particular, go check "example 2" in the same link!
I'd love to get rid of the City of Brass too. As for Challice of the Void, i'd love to try that. IT can backfire sure, but with Vials in play it should be a safe bet. Certainly Challice would require us to run Ancient Tomb. I agree on that.
Im just not sold on Meekstone/annul yet. meekstone seems like a mid to late game answer to aggro decks like Fish and zoo. However Goblins would just laugh it off. Those buggers are too small :S
I'd rather run Engineered Plague Over meekstone if anything. Ill test some of this ideas later on today when I come back from the hospital! thanks for your input!! really appreciate it!
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Not only is this correct, if he does indeed pop a Deed in response to your Vial trigger, you can neglect to put anything into play, preventing your Revoker from being destroyed.
Isn't Vial such an unfair card.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
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NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
G1.
JM: Played Ancient Tomb pass.
Aluren: I open with Mox Opal, Darksteel Citadel, Ornithopter and Aether Vial. No FoW in hand. PASS
JM: Volcanic island, Show and tell. He puts Progenitus I put revoker. Next two turns he wins.
G2 I SB out tezzerets in favor of Perishes.
I open game with 2 Darksteel Citadel, Aether Vial, 2 FoW 1 MoE 1 Thoughtcast 1 Certarch.
Aluren: Play Citadel, Vial pAss
JM: Play Volcanic Island, Brainstorm pass
Aluren: Vial on 1. Citadel PAsS
JM Ancient Tomb, Pass. I EOT Certarch into play.
Aluren: PLay Cranial plating, he Spell pierced. Pass
JM: Volcanic Island, Impulse PASS
Aluren: Seat of Synod, pass
JM: Taps Tomb, 1 Volcanic and Traitors: Sneak Attack. I FoW discarding thoughtcast. he Spell pierced, I FoW yet again discarding MoE. PASS
Aluren: Vial to 3. Pass
JM: Shaterstorm. I put to Grave all but the Certarch and 2 Darksteel Citadels.
The following Conversation ensues:
<JM> lands too
<Gasteasoro> haha
<JM> artifact land
<Gasteasoro> read
<Gasteasoro> pls
<Gasteasoro> READ
<Gasteasoro> lol
<JM> ok
<JM> Ok
JM puts Shatterstorm to Graveyard from Play
<Gasteasoro> LMAO, learn to read cards before playing them please.
<JM> End my turn
Aluren: Mox Opal, pass
JM: Intuition into 3 Show and tell. then cast it. He put Emrakul into play. I don't ahve anything but my ACTIVE CERTARCH.
Aluren: THoughtcast, MoE + Perish
JM: During his upkeep I tap down his Emrakul with Certarch. Another conversation ensues:
<Gasteasoro> taps Vedalken Certarch
<Gasteasoro> Ok?
<JM> Thinking
<JM> I win. Your deck is stupid and you too
<System> Player Lost
So yeah, its this kind of players that make me LOVE this deck HAHAHA THey just can't stand their gameplan being foiled so they just rant, curse and quit. I guess that makes them feel proud.
On a sidenote: Im pretty confident this MU its an instant loss to Most affinity builds out there but this.
Edit: Just added the Thread Banner! Special thanks to mchief111 for his AMAZING PIECE!!
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
If someone activates an ability, and it's already on the stack, Revoker shouldn't be able to stop it.
It's not a Stifle. It doesn't counter activated abilities.
It just stops abilities from being activated after it hits the field.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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You're right there. However I said:
That is, while such card hasn't seen play yet. While it is still on the stack. As per stack rules, you can response with a Prevoker, and first one in, last one out. So Prevoker hits play Before that card, and you name it. SO when it does resolve, it will be stagnant for it won't be able to activate,
EDIT:
Ok, I tested the Winter Orb. IT does slow me down too much. although I can vial guys in, it just doesn't quite make the cut. I also tried the x4 drums against the x4 vials. and vials made it so much better. Instant speed uncounterable guys its just too good. I can't recall how many tarmogoyfs have splattered against an Etched Champion or against a huge MoE. Vial needs to stay.
As for the lands. I was thinking, i could do off without Krosan grips, that way I could change the City of brass to Ancient Den to help the Ethersworn Cannonist. and turn those Grips into spell pierces/Annuls/THopter Foundry/Challice... THoughts on this?
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
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Hi hi! You see, the problem with Glimmervoid is that my average mana cost is somewhere around 2.5/3. I only run 12 artifacts that have a CMC of 1 or less. So Glimmervoid is not that good of a first hander, whereas City of brass is. There have been games where I just play CIty of brass and pass first turn. Those would'nt be possible. Same has happened where I played a turn 1 Vial and it gets countered. That would effectively lose me the Glimmervoid at EOT. I do run many artifacts. But not nearly enough low on the curve to play glimmervoid safely :S
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
I see. I thought your post meant that if an opponent activated something, your vialed-in-response Revoker would somehow Stifle the activation.
If you're going to take out some Drums, you'd probably need the City of Brass. Affinity doesn't have any duals, so to insure that you can cast that 2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas you have in your hand, you might need the City of Brass.
Chalice seems good though.
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
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I think Confidant plays excellently with this deck. The lifeloss from him is offset by ending the game much faster off CA. Natural Order wins games for green and Dark Confidant wins games for black.
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
It's a 2/2 artifact creature that fits the control shell really well.
On average, and without taking enemy damage into account. Dark confidant will net me 6 cards before it kills me. Kind of risky IMO.
As for Tidehollow Sculler. I like it indeed, but im just hesitant on :symw::symb:
i already have a hard time getting :symu::symb: turn 4 for tezzeret :S
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Brass
Creatures
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Vedalken Certarch
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 AEther Vial
4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Perish
3 Annul
3 Steel Sabotage
Thoughts?
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Foundry doesn't really seem right for this deck IMO. Canonist MD would probably only increase your ability to control the board with your few creatures and counter spells. If not, try to find other suitable utility creatures that is artifact who is at 1 or 2 casting cost range.
The average CMC for your deck on the primer is 1.7. You calculate that by adding up ALL the casting costs, and divide by number of cards in your deck.
The total casting cost of your deck is 102, divide that by the 60 cards, it's 1.7. So through math, drawing 6 cards with Confidant, on average will deal you a little over 10 damage, on average.
So while I agree it is risky in your deck, it will not kill you, as your doing the math wrong.
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What about your artifact lands?
Is there a reason why you wanted to try the thoptersword in this deck? (maybe I missed it, I'm at work on my phone :-/.)
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I would love it if actually gave ideas for the deck rather than just coming to say what is right and what's not. I'm running a different version than the one in the first post since as I've said, I'm constantly tweaking this. So yeah... Please try to offer more to the topic rather than playing the role of a judge. Thanks!
BTW: Since you're in a mood to point out who is wrong... It's said "You're"... not your...
I completely disagree on it being suboptimal, and saying there are no good tricks I can play with it its just plain wrong IMO. What I hate the most is to get my key cards countered. The second thing I hate the most is getting my lands blown. Vial makes my life easier by letting me keep 1 land hands and by solving the counter problems. Besides, I've already lost count of how many times I've won games by EOT vialing in a champion. How many times has a MoE chump blocked. But most importantly. How many times I've screwed activated abillities via Phyrexian Revoker. Amongst the most important ones I'd say there is Jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice. Pernicios Deed/EExplosives, Qasali Pridemages and pretty much anything.
As for the foundry, I don't like the idea either. Was just trying new things. After all, thats how I came up with this. And it's FoW pitchable
I've been thinking about that. But that'd leave Champion as the only evasion creature in here. Not so sure how I feel about that :/
The main reason I wanted to repalce Ornithopter with Foundry is that it can create flying tokens which could run platings. Plus it is an extra blue card that could potentially be pitched to FoW.
As for the Artifact lands. What worries me the most is getting a first hand in which the only lands are Glimmervoids. If I do get, for instance; a Darksteel Citadel, that is always the first land I play. However, i think glimmerviod is to fragile since I'm not running that many turn 1 artifacts.
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
-Glimmervoid, as you have said, is a bit finicky, especially turn 1. Why not run 2-3 though for late game mana fixing?
-I really like the idea of running Ethersworn Cannonist in the main deck, especially with this evolving into a control build. Not only does it slow your opponent, but it gives you another body to swing with and another artifact for metalcraft. If you do, then running Tidehollow Sculler in the deck seems more viable, giving you more dudes and more modes for your vials. Sculler seems like a more synergistic Thoughtseize effect.
-I personally don't like the Spring Leaf Drums in the deck. While I see that they help with the mana base, they seem like bad topdecks, bad tezz targets, and the creatures in your deck are small in number compared to swarm affinity.
-I feel like there should be more blue cards that can be pitched to FoW, any ideas?
-This deck should be called something else, as there is currently no affinity in the deck. Something along the lines of control metal? Affinitycraft? Tezzcraft? Blue mud? I suck at names =D
Anyway, I hope I didn't come off as judgmental toward the deck, as I know that it is still a work in progress. Just thought I'd put my thoughts in and see what came of it.
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And neither does this one.
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As for point one. Running City of brass serves for both, turn 1 and late game mana fixing. We sure get to suffer a little from it, but I think it's worth it.
As for point two. Very well, ill try running Cannonist MD. I'll have to tweak though, but it could be worth it. Its a nice Vial trick as well. as in response to popping LEDs or to playing seething songs If this is the case, then Tidehollow sculler could very easily take its 3 spots in SB. Though as is, i'd rather replace 4 Ornithopters with 4 Scullers and keep the cannonists in SB.
3: I need to update the list already. Drums are already out in my build. In favor of completing vial/Prevoker and MoE.
4: There was this attempt back then. It was called DeepBlue I think. It was an affinity build that tried to run FoW and Esperzoa but it didn't POP. I do like the name "Deep Blue" Though this is subjective.
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
I really don't feel like adding StP or PtE. I think with Certarch is more than enough. Besides im already struggling for space in here :S
EDIT:
Considering: Tarnished Citadel over City of Brass... How's that? D: Or even better. Gemstone Caverns
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Actually Emrakul it's easy to deal with. With 4 Certarchs it's easy pie. However Progenitus... that one is a 2 turn clock for me if it sees play. I run Perish in SB though, so that takes care of Progenitus. And certarch takes care of anything else but Goblin Piledriver.
I was thinking seriously on Gemstone Caverns. Seems like a good card IMO. Or am I just crazy?
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
We're already running low on land count, we got legendary Mox and the deck is already vulnerable to wastelands.
Its a legendary land, and doesn't give you color more than once.
Good point regarding Progenitus and Emrakul.