I don't think Leyline of the Void is all that great in this deck. If we have it in our opening hand, great. But by the time we get to 4 land to cast it, we have probably already lost. I think Tormod's Crypt and Relic are an appropriate amount of graveyard hate in the board (in addition to counting as artifacts for Tezzeret/Plating/Metalcraft etc. I currently run 3 Relic of Progenitus and 2 Tormod's Crypt, although I really haven't tested the dredge matchup very much.
As far as Reanimator goes, I think we're just screwed unless we draw that early crucial Crypt/Relic.
I think you should try running 2x Relic of Progenitus, 1x Tormod's Crypt. You run enough disruption such that you could probably race him with your better dudes, so you probably don't need such a huge portion of your SB devoted only to that matchup.
I would suggest Harmonic Convergence against Enchantress. With all the card advantage they have, they are usually holding the Replenish and slow-rolling it for your Back to Nature.
Most of the bad MUs this deck seems to have are decks that don't really exist in the current Meta. If you took this deck to a big GP or tournament, it's pretty unlikely that you'll face The Gate and Pox. Enchantress can be dealt with via the SB. But Death and Taxes you'll just have to hope to dodge.
The most popular variants are no longer mono-white, but I still see a few players trying to play the now-defunct versions. The following are the decks, by order of popularity.
@ Aluren:
I would like to, really. However it will take me a while to assemble the deck ( I don't own the Mox Opals or Tezzeret ). The rest of it is pretty easy/inexpensive to put together. I am aiming for an SCG event in June :).
I just went through a string of pretty bad losses with the deck, so I have been trying to figure out some more radical changes. I cut Thirst for Knowledge and put in 2 Vendilion Clique. It is a nice card to have in conjunction with Tidehollow Sculler to pick apart the opponent's hand, but overall it has been pretty mediocre.
The most popular variants are no longer mono-white, but I still see a few players trying to play the now-defunct versions. The following are the decks, by order of popularity.
Ohh, a friend of mine Bonedoc helped me test it against the first list. Green and Taxes. It wasn't that bad of a MU.
Managara is turned useless with Revokers. Tarmo/KOTR are chump blocked by Etched Champion and/or tapped by playing around with Certarch and their mother of Runes.
Tidehollow Scullers need to be played as bait. take a look at their hand. and take out their StP/Managaras.
SOFAI, Vial and Jitte get Revoked as well. It's just a matter of being able to resolve a Champion to chump block the rest. And go for a Tezzeret kill.
As for Sideboard, I just put in 3 Chalices and set them to 1. That way we don't have to deal with STP and any extra Mother of Runes either.
It wasn't an easy MU though. BUt I found it even TBH. 50/50, or 55/45 in favor of taxes.
mysterygoo: I really don't think Thirst should be played in here :/ And Clique is just too tough on the double UU. However it seems like an amazing Plating carrier.
As for a Radical change. How about Ensnaring Bridge? It would allow us to go get Tezzeret and kill aggro decks.
I was just tossing some ideas out there Anyway, I played some more matches against green & taxes. I really think it's an even MU. I don't get why there seems to be this consensus that its one of our worst MUs?
I was just tossing some ideas out there Anyway, I played some more matches against green & taxes. I really think it's an even MU. I don't get why there seems to be this consensus that its one of our worst MUs?
I was talking specifically about Mono-White D&T. Green is a better MU because they have fewer tricks but larger creatures (despite Qasali Pridemage).
I really want this deck to be awesome, since I believe I have all of the cards and I just got my playset of Force of Wills. I'm looking for a deck for the Legacy portion of SCG Orlando, since I might be attending and wouldn't mind something a bit different.
Why doesn't this deck play 2-3 The Abyss in the sideboard? It seems like an excellent answer to any deck with creatures, since yours all stay alive as they are artifact creatures. I played a similar deck, and The Abyss was a total house when I could pay the four mana.
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At CMC4 its not that good of a card. And taking creatures on a 1 by one basis won't help either. If we want to deal with 1 creature we can block it via Etched Champion. And if we want to deal with several creatures, like Goblins, Elves or Folk this won't do either. It's not that good of a card IMO.
On a sidenote: Vacations start tomorrow!! YEAAAAH!! CANCUN MX HERE I COME!!!!!
Against Folk you don’t need to SB. The MU its favorable for us, Prevoker on their Vial is awesome.
Now that if it is a counter heavy folk you might want to get in +3Ethersworn Cannonist -2 Jitte -1 MoE.
Reason is obvious. Ethersworn means you win counter wars. (considering you dodge Cursecatchers)
Against Goblins we need no SB at all. It is as well another favorable MU. Prevokers should be set to Gempalm Incinerator. Other than that it’s a matter of surviving the very first turns. The worst scenario is going against a turn 1 lackey and him getting in a Siege-Gang Commander. But other than that its pretty easy to control. Once an Etched Champion lands, you equip it and its GG.
Against ANT you Sideboard in your +3Chalice of the Void +3 Cannonist -2Jitte -4 Tezzeret.
Reason being that Tezzeret is too slowl, and jitte don’t do anything against ANT.
Prevokers are set to LED and Chalices at 0
Against TES you will want to hold to your FoWs like crazy. Prevokers are set to LED, Moxen and Petals. Depending on what they play. Sideboard is the same that against ANT. However we have a trick. Don’t cast your Cannonist. Set your Vial to 2 and save the Cannonist. Wait for them to pop their LEDs (if not revoked, chaliced) and FoW their Tutors.
Painter’s Combo I haven’t got to play against. But it should be as easy as revoking Grindstone. Don’t know much about this deck.
The Rock/Junk/NO Bant you will want to Side in +3 Perish -2 Jitte -1 Tezz. Depending on the amount of hate you will decide wether wyou should completely side out tezzeret for annuls or not. Progenitus is NO problem if you get your perishes.
Sneak and Tell. One of my personal favorite decks. It’s a pretty intense MU. PROTECT YOUR CERTARCHS… They are the best weapon you have against their fatties. Play them as soon as possible. Tapout their Tombs to slow them down.
Sideboard should be +3 Chalice -2 Jitte -1 ???
Set Chalice to 1 So that you slow down their Ponder/Brainstorms. You might also want to SB Cannonists if you see he’s running Seething Songs. Prevokers should be set to Lotus Petals and Sneak Attack.
If a Sneak goes active pray that it’s something that you can block with Champion or tap with Certarchs.
Dredge… Well… Just get in your Relics and hope for the best
haha thanks It actually fares really good against most of the Tier 1 decks out there :3
On a Side note: I have an URGE to RANT about something.
I played against this 10 years old "Player"... Big mistake... NEVER play against "players" in MWS. But wth, I did...
Was playing this Planeswalker deck for fun... And he was playing Eldrazi Green.
I had JTMS, Elspeth Tirel and Gideon Jura, over 12 lands and he just hardcast Emrakul.
So he attacks with Emrakul. I chump blocked with Celestial Collonade.
In my turn I +0 Jace. And he's like: "You just used a Planeswalker, so that means that you can't use Gideon now to kill emrakul, hahaha what a noob"
And I go like: I can still use Gideon, since I used Jace, not Gideon.
And he goes: "what a noob, you can only use planeswalkers once per turn"
Me: "Yeah, EACH planeswalker can be used only once... I can tell you're new to magic, want me to link you to the rules?"
Him: "psshh noob, I've been playing for 5 years, and eve if you could cheat with planeswalkers, Emrakul has protection"
(at this point I was running out of patience)
Me: "Can we just play? I've been playing for over 13 years now... there is no way you've played for 5 years and you can't tell the diference between a Spell and a permanent"
So he sacced Emrakul to Gideons Effect. The game progressed, he hardcast a Ulamog, It got Condemned, he hardcast it yet again, Condemned again. And then at last he Cast Emrakul again. And it was GG.
Then, the following conversation happened:
<Aluren> gg
<Player> l2p and read rulez noob
<Aluren> lol
<Aluren> you serious?
<Player> 4 ability planeswalker XDù
<Player> ahahahahahaha
<Aluren> wait
<Aluren> want me to link you?
<Player> go to read rulez noob
<Aluren> to the specific rules?
<Aluren> so you can learn?
<Aluren> been playing mtg for over 13 years pal
<Player> i play tournament last week and you want tell me how to play
<Aluren> i know what I'm oing
<Player> yeah yah
<Aluren> want to see rules?
<Aluren> or are you afraid?
<Player> go to play whit children down your house
<Aluren> yeah afraid
<Aluren> thought so
<Player> ahahahah 4 planeswalker ability
<Aluren> reality too tough kid?
<Player> new deck its planeswalker only for win
<Aluren> or are you gonna man up and read?
<Player> bb noob
<System> Player Lost
So yeah, by the huge ammount of this ☺☺☺ said, I can clearly say that he's just over 10 years old. 12 tops. Don't EVER play against PLAYER in MWS. PLAYERs tend to be ☺☺☺☺ like this kid. Who "I PLAI TOURNAMENT" and there are worse ones who "I JUDGE OFICIAL" or "READ RULEZ NOOB"... I'm really pissed off since I lost against this kid... His deck was better, I have no complaints about that, after all mine was just a random casual T2 deck. What annoys me is the fact that I'd love to roundhouse kick in the face this kind of bugs everytime I play them... So they go whine to their mothers... Hate it so much when they go "Winning" about... Anyway... RANT OVER
haha thanks It actually fares really good against most of the Tier 1 decks out there :3
On a Side note: I have an URGE to RANT about something.
I played against this 10 years old "Player"... Big mistake... NEVER play against "players" in MWS. But wth, I did...
Was playing this Planeswalker deck for fun... And he was playing Eldrazi Green.
I had JTMS, Elspeth Tirel and Gideon Jura, over 12 lands and he just hardcast Emrakul.
So he attacks with Emrakul. I chump blocked with Celestial Collonade.
In my turn I +0 Jace. And he's like: "You just used a Planeswalker, so that means that you can't use Gideon now to kill emrakul, hahaha what a noob"
And I go like: I can still use Gideon, since I used Jace, not Gideon.
And he goes: "what a noob, you can only use planeswalkers once per turn"
Me: "Yeah, EACH planeswalker can be used only once... I can tell you're new to magic, want me to link you to the rules?"
Him: "psshh noob, I've been playing for 5 years, and eve if you could cheat with planeswalkers, Emrakul has protection"
(at this point I was running out of patience)
Me: "Can we just play? I've been playing for over 13 years now... there is no way you've played for 5 years and you can't tell the diference between a Spell and a permanent"
So he sacced Emrakul to Gideons Effect. The game progressed, he hardcast a Ulamog, It got Condemned, he hardcast it yet again, Condemned again. And then at last he Cast Emrakul again. And it was GG.
Then, the following conversation happened:
<Aluren> gg
<Player> l2p and read rulez noob
<Aluren> lol
<Aluren> you serious?
<Player> 4 ability planeswalker XDù
<Player> ahahahahahaha
<Aluren> wait
<Aluren> want me to link you?
<Player> go to read rulez noob
<Aluren> to the specific rules?
<Aluren> so you can learn?
<Aluren> been playing mtg for over 13 years pal
<Player> i play tournament last week and you want tell me how to play
<Aluren> i know what I'm oing
<Player> yeah yah
<Aluren> want to see rules?
<Aluren> or are you afraid?
<Player> go to play whit children down your house
<Aluren> yeah afraid
<Aluren> thought so
<Player> ahahahah 4 planeswalker ability
<Aluren> reality too tough kid?
<Player> new deck its planeswalker only for win
<Aluren> or are you gonna man up and read?
<Player> bb noob
<System> Player Lost
So yeah, by the huge ammount of this ☺☺☺ said, I can clearly say that he's just over 10 years old. 12 tops. Don't EVER play against PLAYER in MWS. PLAYERs tend to be ☺☺☺☺ like this kid. Who "I PLAI TOURNAMENT" and there are worse ones who "I JUDGE OFICIAL" or "READ RULEZ NOOB"... I'm really pissed off since I lost against this kid... His deck was better, I have no complaints about that, after all mine was just a random casual T2 deck. What annoys me is the fact that I'd love to roundhouse kick in the face this kind of bugs everytime I play them... So they go whine to their mothers... Hate it so much when they go "Winning" about... Anyway... RANT OVER
Sounds about right.
I didn't see any Ancient Tombs when we played. Just a food for thought thing as it would facilitate an earlier Tezz and maybe turn 1 Chalice set to 1.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Yes. That card is actually going to be insane in this deck. You need to find a place for it.
Im thinking we could cut 1 tezz, 1 Jitte, 1 Vial and 1 Sculler D:
This also makes me think about the Darksteel Citadel. It is already too color intensive to have colorless lands IMO. I think running Ancient Den is worth the risk now...
As far as Reanimator goes, I think we're just screwed unless we draw that early crucial Crypt/Relic.
Right now my board looks like
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Steel Sabotage
2 Annul
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Perish
I think you should try running 2x Relic of Progenitus, 1x Tormod's Crypt. You run enough disruption such that you could probably race him with your better dudes, so you probably don't need such a huge portion of your SB devoted only to that matchup.
I would suggest Harmonic Convergence against Enchantress. With all the card advantage they have, they are usually holding the Replenish and slow-rolling it for your Back to Nature.
Most of the bad MUs this deck seems to have are decks that don't really exist in the current Meta. If you took this deck to a big GP or tournament, it's pretty unlikely that you'll face The Gate and Pox. Enchantress can be dealt with via the SB. But Death and Taxes you'll just have to hope to dodge.
Good luck.
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@mysterygoo: So, are you taking it to a GP for field research?
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Green and Taxes (G/W): http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36118
Junk and Taxes (G/W/B): http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36643
Death and Taxes (W): http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=34536
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I would like to, really. However it will take me a while to assemble the deck ( I don't own the Mox Opals or Tezzeret ). The rest of it is pretty easy/inexpensive to put together. I am aiming for an SCG event in June :).
I just went through a string of pretty bad losses with the deck, so I have been trying to figure out some more radical changes. I cut Thirst for Knowledge and put in 2 Vendilion Clique. It is a nice card to have in conjunction with Tidehollow Sculler to pick apart the opponent's hand, but overall it has been pretty mediocre.
Ohh, a friend of mine Bonedoc helped me test it against the first list. Green and Taxes. It wasn't that bad of a MU.
Managara is turned useless with Revokers. Tarmo/KOTR are chump blocked by Etched Champion and/or tapped by playing around with Certarch and their mother of Runes.
Tidehollow Scullers need to be played as bait. take a look at their hand. and take out their StP/Managaras.
SOFAI, Vial and Jitte get Revoked as well. It's just a matter of being able to resolve a Champion to chump block the rest. And go for a Tezzeret kill.
As for Sideboard, I just put in 3 Chalices and set them to 1. That way we don't have to deal with STP and any extra Mother of Runes either.
It wasn't an easy MU though. BUt I found it even TBH. 50/50, or 55/45 in favor of taxes.
mysterygoo: I really don't think Thirst should be played in here :/ And Clique is just too tough on the double UU. However it seems like an amazing Plating carrier.
As for a Radical change. How about Ensnaring Bridge? It would allow us to go get Tezzeret and kill aggro decks.
Or replace Jitte with Grafted Exoskeleton and play Inkmoth Nexus too? A Grafted Etched Champion is a two turns clock
Just tossing some ideas out there
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
I don't think you should go the Infect route. Jitte is too good, and I just really don't like Infect as a whole.
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I was talking specifically about Mono-White D&T. Green is a better MU because they have fewer tricks but larger creatures (despite Qasali Pridemage).
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
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Drop me a list of decks, i'll tell you what I sideboard in each case
I haven't been able to test against mono W Death And Taxes yet. I've been really busy this week. Ill get to you later today
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
On a sidenote: Vacations start tomorrow!! YEAAAAH!! CANCUN MX HERE I COME!!!!!
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Goblins
ANT
TES
U/R Welder's Painted Stone
The Rock
Junk
NO Bant
Sneak and Tell
GSZ Bant
GSZ Zoo
Dredge
Tier 1 decks, etc.
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This is my Board:
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Perish
3 Annul
3 Chalice of the Void
Against Folk you don’t need to SB. The MU its favorable for us, Prevoker on their Vial is awesome.
Now that if it is a counter heavy folk you might want to get in +3Ethersworn Cannonist -2 Jitte -1 MoE.
Reason is obvious. Ethersworn means you win counter wars. (considering you dodge Cursecatchers)
Against Goblins we need no SB at all. It is as well another favorable MU. Prevokers should be set to Gempalm Incinerator. Other than that it’s a matter of surviving the very first turns. The worst scenario is going against a turn 1 lackey and him getting in a Siege-Gang Commander. But other than that its pretty easy to control. Once an Etched Champion lands, you equip it and its GG.
Against ANT you Sideboard in your +3Chalice of the Void +3 Cannonist -2Jitte -4 Tezzeret.
Reason being that Tezzeret is too slowl, and jitte don’t do anything against ANT.
Prevokers are set to LED and Chalices at 0
Against TES you will want to hold to your FoWs like crazy. Prevokers are set to LED, Moxen and Petals. Depending on what they play. Sideboard is the same that against ANT. However we have a trick. Don’t cast your Cannonist. Set your Vial to 2 and save the Cannonist. Wait for them to pop their LEDs (if not revoked, chaliced) and FoW their Tutors.
Painter’s Combo I haven’t got to play against. But it should be as easy as revoking Grindstone. Don’t know much about this deck.
The Rock/Junk/NO Bant you will want to Side in +3 Perish -2 Jitte -1 Tezz. Depending on the amount of hate you will decide wether wyou should completely side out tezzeret for annuls or not. Progenitus is NO problem if you get your perishes.
Sneak and Tell. One of my personal favorite decks. It’s a pretty intense MU. PROTECT YOUR CERTARCHS… They are the best weapon you have against their fatties. Play them as soon as possible. Tapout their Tombs to slow them down.
Sideboard should be +3 Chalice -2 Jitte -1 ???
Set Chalice to 1 So that you slow down their Ponder/Brainstorms. You might also want to SB Cannonists if you see he’s running Seething Songs. Prevokers should be set to Lotus Petals and Sneak Attack.
If a Sneak goes active pray that it’s something that you can block with Champion or tap with Certarchs.
Dredge… Well… Just get in your Relics and hope for the best
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
On a Side note: I have an URGE to RANT about something.
Was playing this Planeswalker deck for fun... And he was playing Eldrazi Green.
I had JTMS, Elspeth Tirel and Gideon Jura, over 12 lands and he just hardcast Emrakul.
So he attacks with Emrakul. I chump blocked with Celestial Collonade.
In my turn I +0 Jace. And he's like: "You just used a Planeswalker, so that means that you can't use Gideon now to kill emrakul, hahaha what a noob"
And I go like: I can still use Gideon, since I used Jace, not Gideon.
And he goes: "what a noob, you can only use planeswalkers once per turn"
Me: "Yeah, EACH planeswalker can be used only once... I can tell you're new to magic, want me to link you to the rules?"
Him: "psshh noob, I've been playing for 5 years, and eve if you could cheat with planeswalkers, Emrakul has protection"
(at this point I was running out of patience)
Me: "Can we just play? I've been playing for over 13 years now... there is no way you've played for 5 years and you can't tell the diference between a Spell and a permanent"
So he sacced Emrakul to Gideons Effect. The game progressed, he hardcast a Ulamog, It got Condemned, he hardcast it yet again, Condemned again. And then at last he Cast Emrakul again. And it was GG.
Then, the following conversation happened:
<Aluren> gg
<Player> l2p and read rulez noob
<Aluren> lol
<Aluren> you serious?
<Player> 4 ability planeswalker XDù
<Player> ahahahahahaha
<Aluren> wait
<Aluren> want me to link you?
<Player> go to read rulez noob
<Aluren> to the specific rules?
<Aluren> so you can learn?
<Aluren> been playing mtg for over 13 years pal
<Player> i play tournament last week and you want tell me how to play
<Aluren> i know what I'm oing
<Player> yeah yah
<Aluren> want to see rules?
<Aluren> or are you afraid?
<Player> go to play whit children down your house
<Aluren> yeah afraid
<Aluren> thought so
<Player> ahahahah 4 planeswalker ability
<Aluren> reality too tough kid?
<Player> new deck its planeswalker only for win
<Aluren> or are you gonna man up and read?
<Player> bb noob
<System> Player Lost
So yeah, by the huge ammount of this ☺☺☺ said, I can clearly say that he's just over 10 years old. 12 tops. Don't EVER play against PLAYER in MWS. PLAYERs tend to be ☺☺☺☺ like this kid. Who "I PLAI TOURNAMENT" and there are worse ones who "I JUDGE OFICIAL" or "READ RULEZ NOOB"... I'm really pissed off since I lost against this kid... His deck was better, I have no complaints about that, after all mine was just a random casual T2 deck. What annoys me is the fact that I'd love to roundhouse kick in the face this kind of bugs everytime I play them... So they go whine to their mothers... Hate it so much when they go "Winning" about... Anyway... RANT OVER
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Sounds about right.
I didn't see any Ancient Tombs when we played. Just a food for thought thing as it would facilitate an earlier Tezz and maybe turn 1 Chalice set to 1.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Also, If it is viable w/o....how would the match against Storm be?
Honestly, I just don't think this deck is good if there's no FoW.
btw, FoW shouldn't be over $100 each. That's just inflated.
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Is our Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile.
This is what we needed to pinpoint threats! This is so beautiful!!
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
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Im thinking we could cut 1 tezz, 1 Jitte, 1 Vial and 1 Sculler D:
This also makes me think about the Darksteel Citadel. It is already too color intensive to have colorless lands IMO. I think running Ancient Den is worth the risk now...
List would be as follows:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 City of Brass
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Vedalken Certarch
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Mox Opal
3 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will
3 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Dispatch
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer